And this is for Scott: "Walker’s anti-union law has labor reeling in Wisconsin."
These are both big articles, served up for Monday morning, and both are low blows.
The attack on Walker is low, because it uses the terms "union" and "labor" without specifying what I think must always be specified to be fair: Walker's reforms were about public employee unions. The Walker article is absurdly emotive and sentimental, larded with quotes from nice people who are bewildered and sad. You have to read to paragraph 5 to get the first indication that Walker's law only had to do with the special problem of public unions, whose collective bargaining is not with private management, but with the government, the representatives of the people, not any commercial operation.
There are over 4,000 comments on the Walker article already, and the top-rated one is: "No wonder Walker scares Democrats so much. He's taken down one of their most lucrative money making scams as well as one of their favorite sources of street muscle." The second highest rated is: "The left is scared to death of Walker." So maybe WaPo's effort to type-cast Walker as a right-wing meanie won't work, but it won't be because WaPo's not trying. And, yes, I know I'm purporting to read The Mind of the Washington Post, even as I'm writing about Scott Walker, The Man Who Cannot Read the Mind of Others.
The low blow for Jeb is a shot at his wife.
In 1999, Columba Bush... was detained and fined by federal customs officials for misrepresenting the amount of clothing and jewelry she had bought while on a solo five-day shopping spree in Paris.... Jeb Bush said the first lady had misled customs officials because she did not want him to know that she had spent about $19,000 on the trip....What's wrong with a rich woman spending $19,000 shopping when she's gone to Paris by herself? I'm not believing Jeb's explanation. First, why didn't he accompany her? Why'd she have to go alone? I assume it's because she wanted to shop. How could he not know why his wife went to Paris, and why go to Paris to go shopping and not spend an amount of money that corresponds to your level of wealth? 1999 was the year Jeb became Governor of Florida. He was in business before then. I'd say $19,000 was a normal amount of money for his wife to spend on her Paris shopping spree.
WaPo continues:
The ordeal did not stop her from spending freely, however. Less than a year later, she took out a loan to buy $42,311.70 worth of jewelry on a single day, according to records filed with the state of Florida by Mayors Jewelers.Took out a loan? Why would she need to take out a loan? You have to go way to the bottom of the article to learn that Mayors offers better terms on these loans than are offered by credit cards (which I'm sure she had). Again, I don't see the problem with the wife of a rich man spending money on clothing and accessories that correspond to the family's wealth. I guess there's a political embarrassment, which is what WaPo hopes to visit on Jeb. Jeb's wife is thought to be a political advantage, since she was born in Mexico and her father was a migrant worker. So you see the point of portraying her as another rich lady (and a dishonest one at that).
पोस्ट्स
१०७ टिप्पण्या:
Low blows for Republicans, blow jobs for Democrats. Sums up the Washington Post succinctly.
Battle space prep. Walker and Bush are the preferred candidates of the Establishment. Setting these two up as the main horses in the race helps ensure that other candidates are left out of the talk, ala Ted Cruz and the Althouse poll. Yes, I know, it was an oversight of the most prominent and out-front critic of Obama and Obamaism.
"Many of you are well enough off that ... the tax cuts may have helped you," Sen. Clinton said. "We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
Yup - went through all that Bush gotcha' stuff when it happened here in Florida back in the day. I've already tuned it out and the campaign has barely started. What wakes me up is when your Gov. Scott snaps back.
Took out a loan? Why would she need to take out a loan? You have to go way to the bottom of the article to learn that Mayors offers better terms on these loans than are offered by credit cards (which I'm sure she had).
Also many stores offer a discount on that day's purchase if you open an account with the store. She could have easily saved four to six thousand dollars just by opening an account she didn't need.
What I find so hilarious about the WaPo article on Walker is that they totally overlook the positive results Act 10 had on school district budgets: It allowed schools to ADD teachers!
Remember, when they argue for money for the classroom, they're not talking about the children, they're really talking about themselves, their Pay and Pension, and their Democrat party.
The Children? Pfft.
They should ask Hilary Clinton what they think of articles about Jeb Bush's wife. Seems only fair.
Remember journalists, including those at the Wa Po, are nothing more than "Comfort Girls" for the D Party and Left wing activists. They are just doing their job.
Ha! Michelle Obama is a fashion inspiration. Colomba Bush has a shopping problem.
Columba is described in Wiki as "an Mexican born American philanthropist."
It is clear whom she thinks is the first person she knows who is in need of money... lots of money. Other than herself, the philanthropy seems to be to arrange fine art exhibitions for the poor people who frequent art gallery shows where she can wear the fancy clothes and jewelry.
It appears that Jeb has himself a trophy wife.
By contrast Tonette is lucky if she has a real diamond in her ring.
The blow against Jeb is lower. It's their money his wife spent, glaringly unlike Michelle Obama, whose main mission as First Lady has been to milk every last taxpayer million she can from this gig, whether it's skiing, Marbella or Dublin while telling us what not to eat. And all WaPo can muster against her is a brief mention of wearing expensive tennis shoes at a soup kitchen. Walker is indeed a threat to government unions everywhere if he becomes president, and frankly, I hope he succeeds (just a little reverse Rush Limbaugh lingo thrown in).
jm, formerly of Sheboygan
It's nice to see some rich women spending their money on worthwhile things.
Blank admits that Walker’s plan calls for a “two-year freeze for in-state undergraduate tuition” as well as “a public authority model that would provide flexibilities in areas such as purchasing, management of building projects, and authority over a pay plan for university employees.”
In the Feb. 5 email, Blank used her taxpayer-funded platform to beg students to prevail on elected lawmakers.
Rich ?
Blank, who was hired in 2013, collects a base salary of $495,000, plus various perks and benefits.
I had a more favorable impression of the Walker article. It made it sound like people did not really want to be in a union in the first place. But then article did not note that prior to Walker's change people were forced to be in the union.
The article on Walker also notes that Teachers got a cut because they had to pay more for health insurance. One person talks about having to take on a new job to make up for the cut.
But the article fails to mention that these teachers got a huge bonus in not having to pay union dues (up to $1000 per year), which more or less offset the extra cost of paying for benefits.
Maybe I am wrong, but I thought that was the case.
An interesting quote from the WAPO article about Walker, is a public sector worker complaining about how over time is no longer given out on the basis of senority .
Goodness knows we wouldn't want over time being given to the most qualified employees!According to the WAPO article, it should only be given on the basis of senority
What's strangest about the WaPo piece re Bush's wife is that who has expensive tastes? The Clintons. Seriously, the list of requirements for her speeches makes it clear that she's just not searching for that common touch.
I think they are getting a bit off-message here. This sort of stuff can only hurt Clinton.
As for Walker, this is as likely to promote him as it is to hurt him - the vast majority of the voting public doesn't benefit from public union benefits but does pay for them. It's a sore point for many, and an increasingly common topic of discussion on the ground as states figure out how to fund pension and medical pools while controlling tax increases. Aren't they kind of making his campaign speeches for him?
It is almost like the NYT is in the bag for the Democratic party!
Nah, can't be. The MSM press is absolutely neutral and unbiased.
They tell us that all the time, and if you cannot trust the press who can you trust?
BREAKING: Many women have expensive tastes that exasperate their husbands. News at 11.
Sorry, WaPo, not NYT. Hard to tell them apart some (all) of the time.
I read the WaPo article on unions earlier today. With friends like the WaPo, the unions hardly need enemies.
It seems like it was written to be pro-union but in reality it is difficult to come away thinking that the unions ever did much good for their members. Or for the state. Or, particularly For the Children!(tm)
The whole tone of the article is about how difficult it is to get people to take unions seriously if they are not forced to belong.
I liked the part about the 55 year old guy who retired. I think his motto was something like "Less tension, more pension"
Or how many Badgers seem to perceive union members as "moochers"
The whole article was a great piece of work. Progs will read it and see it as supporting unions but it will leave some mind worms behind. Maybe they will start thinking about the true value of govt unions.
Good on ya, WaPo
John Henry
Rebecca Blank sounds like a token white person, not that Wisconsin needs one.
"both are low blows"
Right. Good to dispense with the faux surprise.
But the Dems with bylines have to be careful about planting land mines in their battle space prep: spending can be used against Clinton, opposing unions turned to GOP advantage.
Ann,
You are making ALOT of assumptions about Jeb Bush and his wife in your analysis. First off, when he entered the governor's mansion he had a net worth of $2 million which then decreased to a net worth of $1.3 million by the time he left office in 2006. So whatever his income was, it was not enough to maintain his status as a "millionaire" much longer.
Please bear in mind that your net worth including your academic retirement plan, at your current age, probably means you have a net worth around $1-$1.5 million at this point in time.
So at the beginning of the dot-com bubble burst and recession, at a time when Jeb Bush was starting to lose net worth, his wife went to Paris by herself. She could have gone for sight seeing, for cooking classes, whatever. She spent $19k on shopping items that would need to be declared at customs not including the cost of the trip itself. Let's assume she stayed at a nice place, ate 4-5 star meals, etc.
She probably spent $6-10k on the trip and then another $19k on the shopping.
That's about 1.5-2.5% of Jeb Bush's NET WORTH spent on a single trip to Paris. At the beginning of a recession.
I can see her wanting to try to hide that expenditure.
Point is, Clintons returned their ill-gotten gains.
Not too long ago, didn't they estimate "dead broke" Hillary! blew 2-3 million on her daughter's wedding?
How about Oprah and her $38,000 handbag incident?
The First Lady of Florida was not hiding over spending from her rich husband. How dumb do the Bush people think we are?
She was using the Mexican Rich Oligarch's mind set that laws are only for the poor people. She is just a Leona Helmsley that speaks Spanish.
Th declaration that she lied on is a tax return for collecting the custom duties owed. After she was caught, she had to pay the $4500 she was evading paying. I guess she needed the money so she could put on Art Exhibitions with Carlos Slim and friends.
Latino woman marries well, spends husband's money like it's going out of style. This isn't anything new and is probably pretty prevalent in Miami, as it is in AZ. We've known a few families like this. Perhaps the WAPO is trying to stir the seeds of discontent among the lower class Latino women who are not so fortunate?
My sis (who makes a lot of money) still hides shoes in the trunk of her car from her spouse, because she's constantly going over budget. This is hardly news.
Tax evasion is Americas most popular participant sport. Everyone does it. How many Wisconsin residents do their clothes shopping across the boarder....@Mall of America? Cheating their state out of sales tax revenue. See? Everyone cheats on taxes. Al Sharpton? Warren Buffett?
And the loan???Right! I am able to pay cash for even large purchases, with some planning. But I 'Take out loans' constantly when using their money costs nothing and paying cash garners no cash discount. The Low information voters (the target of these pathetic attempts at smears) dont understand the time value of money, so it will leave a mark on them.
The union article is just a carrier for the links embedded within. What percentage of scanners will read the headline and first couple of paras, then punch out to a juicy link, or better yet just scan the link titles?
The Post provides a service for progressives who need to load their opinions and arguments without doing much work. I know, I used to be one of them.
Here are the embedded links in the Walker article just in text:
Walker: ‘I don’t know’ whether Obama is a Christian.
Questions linger over Walker’s college exit as he mulls White House bid
Dan Balz: Walker’s newfound visibility has exaggerated impact
No one really knows why Scott Walker never finished college
Walker: ‘I don’t know’ whether Obama is a Christian (twice for this*)
Dana Milbank: Scott Walker’s cowardice should disqualify him
Ruth Marcus: The miseducation of Scott Walker
There, a 60 second read through the link titles, not the linked articles, will provide with everything you need to know about Scott Walker.
Somewhere in the linked texts, they will mention repeatedly that he is an Evangelical Christian as well. Just to nail down any doubts about his qualification as a hate object.
The whole point is to feed the narrative, Republicans are rich, white, and hate the poor. So they spend all their money on frivolities.
Whereas Democrats love the poor. Love them so much, they are willing to give them all your money.
I'm sure there are just as many stories about Hillary doing such shopping and FLOTUS and a whole bunch of other Democrats. But we'll only read about it in the glamour magazines when they show up at the latest gala. It won't be a story about how much they spent on a shopping spree, it will be a story about how bitchen she looks in that million dollar dress.
FWIW, The WaPo is a union shop.
Newspaper Guild
and in bargaining over a new contract.
The WaPo wants to offer a 1% pay raise.
Families are off limits.
Except when a lefty rag wants to dish dirt on a conservative.
"Whereas Democrats love the poor. Love them so much, they are willing to give them all your money."
Not quite, they don't love poor people, they love the fact that there are poor people.
They then get to use your money to pay all the people and organizations providing services to the poor. The money that actually gets to the poor is simply the cost of doing business.
Columba is fair game because Bush III has based his entire campaign so far on being married to a Mexican woman who is the daughter of a migrant worker.
That's another of the Connecticut Bush Family's head fakes. They are not Hispanics anymore than they are Texans. They are all Connecticutt/Maine Yankees educated at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts and have been connected for over 100 years to old wealth and establishment politicians.
That the WaPo's coverage of candidates and election campaigns heavily favors Dems, even to the point of pushing non-stories about Rep candidates just for the 'embarrassment' factor, is not news. Anyone remember macaca? Former Sen Allen does. You will never see similar coverage of a Dem candidate in the WaPo. And there won't be any in-depth investigative reporting about Hillary's cattle futures, empowering of a sexual predator (including the one she's married to) or content-free record as senator and SecState, either.
What's different now is that the WaPo no longer has the ability to set the topics of conversation, and has lost the power to create or control the 'narrative.' That 'macaca' moment is all so 10 years ago. Won't stop them from trying, of course, or from reviving the Journo-list shtick of coordinated attacks.
I'm no Jeb Bush fan, but tradguy, you've got to give credit where credit is due. Columba knows a hell of a lot more about being poor/struggling than anyone else in Washington right now, so I think it's a valid plus for Jeb. I won't vote for him, but it's valid.
"They are not Hispanics anymore than they are Texans. "
They are Texans, at least that branch is. They really do live there, and they hang out mainly with other Texans. I have it on good authority from acquaintances, among other things.
As for the Florida ones, I don't know, genetics is pretty dispositive on ancestry. So the next Bush generation really is "Hispanic", for what its worth, as much as my kids are "Hispanic" (my wife is 1/2 Mexican) or "Asian" for that matter. Columba Bush is visibly mestiza, of the whiter sort, but still, were she on the telenovelas she may have gotten the servant roles.
Columba Bush's kids are also much more Native American (Mexican flavor) than Elizabeth Warren, and more "Hispanic" of the desirable sort (non-European) than Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz (who's mother wasn't Cuban), who are both mostly-white.
Also, Mexican is what is normally meant by the "Hispanic" code word. Cubans and people from anywhere else don't count, politically, other than maybe the resonance of their names.
Jeb Bush does speak Spanish quite well, for what thats worth also.
As for -
"They are all Connecticutt/Maine Yankees educated at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts and have been connected for over 100 years to old wealth and establishment politicians."
In itself this is not a bad thing. This is a very conservative thing to go to established families for leaders. They define the tribe better than most.
On the other hand, a third Bush in this generation is not good. He is also not in step with the spirit of the party, being dissociated from the people, much more so than his brother. What we have now is a populist revolt inclined to overturn many of the institutions that are backing him.
"The attack on Walker is low, because it uses the terms "union" and "labor" without specifying what I think must always be specified to be fair: Walker's reforms were about public employee unions."
Since our concern is fairness, should we not specify that Walker's "reforms" were about public employee unions...except for police and firefighters unions?
As for the Washington Post -
This business is clearly part of a coordinated campaign.
Someone somewhere is handing out assignments and instructing editors.
There is an underground ministry of propaganda giving orders, in detail, to our versions of Pravda and Izvestia, as well as the cooperating media in the Soviet disinformation program.
Any reader of Mitrokhins books would understand how this works.
Serious question: Is the MSM trying to hurt Walker, or trying to get us to pick him as a candidate? Is this just a cleverer version of how they supported McCain in 2008, until he locked in the nomination? Being attacked by the MSM raises his stock in the GOP, and being attacked for hurting those poor public sector unions is even better. He couldn't possibly buy better advertising for the nomination.
I'm wondering if they really think that skipping a semester of college is so disqualifying that they really want Walker to be the candidate.
If so, they should be careful what they wish for.
Asking about Michelle Obama's expensives tastes and lavish family vacations is evidence of racism.
Pointing out Hillary Clinton's avaricous acquisitions (possible due only to her "public service" and that of her spouse) is evidence of sexism.
Wondering how the high-pay no-work "job" given to Chelsea Clinton was anything other than a transparent bribe and hypocritical given her/their stance on wealth & meritocracy, etc, is evidence of both sexism and malicious verbal assault, since politician's kids are supposed to be off limits (even when grown).
Oh, a family member of a Repub did something that might be embarassing? Fuck 'em, run that story all day!
All complaining about coverage, or any personal biases, is irrelevant.
This is not the press itself being biased, or some editors, or some writers.
None of these people are exercising their judgement.
This is an organized system and the people involved are just doing the jobs they are paid to do.
"were about public employee unions...except for police and firefighters unions?"
Well, I can certainly understand why a lefty would not like police. Firefighters ? Harder to understand.
so Walker's law crushed most public employee unions. That's a feature, not a bug.
"That's another of the Connecticut Bush Family's head fakes. They are not Hispanics anymore than they are Texans. They are all Connecticutt/Maine Yankees educated at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts and have been connected for over 100 years to old wealth and establishment politicians."
Except Jeb actually was born in Texas and Graduated from the University of Texas at Austin.
TreeJoe makes sense.
As I read Althouse, I was looking for something to support the underlying assumption that this sort of spending was no big deal for Mrs. Bush.
Does Althouse have any data to support her statements? If not, she should add a BS tag to acknowledge she was making this stuff up.
How can she be so picky about WaPo's waiting five paragraphs before specifying the types of unions, but then she completely fabricates information in the same post?
Lame.
The wealthy Bush family has many home bases. A Texas home base, a Florida home base and a Maine home base. All they needed was an Ohio home base.
They come in with money to invest in oil companies and Professional Sports Teams. The old family connections are ever present.
But turning the GOP into an Hispanic immigrant's party is a bridge too far trick for my family.
The tradition in Mexico and Latin America is a close ruling class with all wealth and the other 99% of the people peasants. That only works out well for the 1% like the Bush family.
"The tradition in Mexico and Latin America is a close ruling class with all wealth and the other 99% of the people peasants. That only works out well for the 1% like the Bush family and, much more so, Scott Walker's billionaire buds."
Fixed.
I see BDS is still alive and well.
They are all Connecticutt/Maine Yankees educated at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts
Next WaPo or NY Times piece on Jeb will wonder why he went to the University of Texas for college rather than the Ivy League. Maybe too dumb, right? Or maybe shrewd and calculating.
The guy can't catch a break.
Maybe Jeb's team can turn this one back on his critics--clearly they don't like the idea of a rich Latina spending money all over town! Racists! I mean, that was a fair response whenever people criticized Michelle Obama's vacations, right?
As for Walker, I'd expect more of this--Big Labor is going to be gunning for him, and pushing the narrative of poor, bedraggled employees losing their representation because they can no longer be forced to pay ....wait, that makes no sense. If the unions are so great for them, why wouldn't the employees gladly pay voluntary dues? Something tells me their argument will collapse in on itself once exposed to the light of day.
This is the Sarah Palin "Designer Dresses" story all over again.
As we all know, Hillary and Michelle buy their clothes off the rack at Target.
Jeb weathered the first storm over this back in 1999 during his first term as governor. He was re-elected in 2002, becoming Florida's first two-term Republican governor.
traditionalguy said...
Columba is fair game because Bush III has based his entire campaign so far on being married to a Mexican woman who is the daughter of a migrant worker.
Actually, he hasn't. But it scares you what he might do with that fact, doesn't it? Thus the effort to change Mrs. Bush into Mrs. Marcos.
Democrat operatives with by-lines.
Oh, but you said it was the washington post.
sorry for being repetitious
Yep, the Dems are scared because Columba Bush is a very charming person and will appeal greatly to Hispanic voters -- you can watch her in action here, giving what looks like a tour of the governor's mansion in Florida. I'm guessing at that because it's in Spanish, which I don't understand.
"That only works out well for the 1% like the Bush family."
And the Clintons ? The difference being that they stole it in one generation whereas the Bush family got a lot of their money from ancestors who earned fair and square.
Sounds like lefty knee jerk territory.
Of course, Warren got hers from her Indian ancestors.
"Scott Walker's billionaire buds.""
Another lefty knee jerk. Don;t you think this is getting old?
Or is that all you have ? Holy shit if that's true !
bbkingfish: "Since our concern is fairness, should we not specify that Walker's "reforms" were about public employee unions...except for police and firefighters unions?"
Yes. More precision is never out of line.
Scott Walker will not get very far trying to say he was only mean to public sector unions. The U.S. has 7.4 million private sector union members (declining) and 7.2 public sector union members (growing). His best argument is that the reforms were needed. It is going to cost him some votes in the general election.
On the other hand, if spousal spending is a campaign issue, then Hillary can be asked how much her husband spends on jewelry and shopping trips to Paris. That will be fun. Thanks Columba!
"Don;t you think this is getting old?'
It'll stop being old when it stops. If Walker's actions indicate that he's concerned with the lives of middle and lower class folks instead of changing the rules to make it ever easier for America's most greedy and selfish, i.e. those who pay for him to be in office. When that happens Walker will see his big dough boys running for new public servants for hire. Of course Walker won't do that.
Duh.
It would be interesting to know which rules Mr. Walker wants to change that particularly harm the poor and middle class. And by what mechanism they do this.
Specifics, such as a causal chain, or something like that, would be refreshing in political campaigns. Would that all voters demanded such.
Of course, if that were to happen it would mean that the voters would all be engineers, who would naturally elect Republicans.
Please enlighten us. How is Walker opposition to public unions "going to cost him some votes"?
You mean votes from teacher union members who are champing at the bit to vote for Walker?
bbkingfish: "Since our concern is fairness, should we not specify that Walker's "reforms" were about public employee unions...except for police and firefighters unions?"
Yes. More precision is never out of line."
Drago funny how fairness is always couched in terms of being "fair" to the tax eaters and never to the actual net taxpayers. All these public servants doing the taxpayer favors with the taxpayers money.
Welfare deadbeats could try being fair to the taxpayers by getting a job like most people do. Somehow that also never is part of the fairness equation.
"Of course, if that were to happen it would mean that the voters would all be engineers, who would naturally elect Republicans."
FYI, I'm a Chemical Engineer.
Killing collective bargaining and making voting harder for less affluent folks results in more financial power for corporations and less political influence for non-rich folks, respectively.
Duh.
"All these public servants doing the taxpayer favors with the taxpayers money."
And yet, y'all can't apply this logic to the billionaires who have latched on to Walker.
Why is that?
PBandJ_LeDouanier: "And yet, y'all can't apply this logic to the billionaires who have latched on to Walker."
......and?.........what?
Which billionaires have latched on to Walker and what has Walker given them?
This should be good for some laughs.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2012/06/05/gov-scott-walkers-big-money-backers-include-13-out-of-state-billionaires/
Read it, and Walker will tell you himself what he sold to the billionaires.
Engineer for 40 years here. ME. Machine tools, power plant, gas&electric, etc.
We, the tribe, are 9/10 conservative and/or Republican voters.
I doubt there is a more Republican population.
As for collective bargaining, and unions, its all rotten to the core. I spent years working on improving efficiency in US manufacturing plants and these guys were about economic sabotage. They are great for doing well for themselves but nothing for those unemployed. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
As for voting, when younger I lived in the third world and worked on cleaning up election fraud (we were perennial volunteers for NAMFREL - look it up). All the rules being complained of are SOP in breaking corrupt political machines, and SOP in recommendations by international anti-corruption organizations for election reforms.
PBandJ_LeDouanier: "http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2012/06/05/gov-scott-walkers-big-money-backers-include-13-out-of-state-billionaires/
Read it, and Walker will tell you himself what he sold to the billionaires"
LOL
PB&J pulls a complete garage mahal.
The article linked does not indicate anything that was sold, offered as quid pro quo, etc.
It's simply a list of wealthy donors to Walker.
Which is precisely why PB&J gave a link instead of pulling out that which would buttress his assertion.
PB&J: "Killing collective bargaining and making voting harder for less affluent folks..."
Could you explain why dems make it harder for less affluent folks to check out books from the library?
Chemical engineer you say?
Well, you've certainly got the garage mahal "formula" down pat.
Drago,
The article has one of his 13 billionaire funders asking him to do something about the unions. He responds " “Oh yeah,” then adds: “The first step is, we’re going to deal with collective bargaining for all public employee unions, use divide and conquer.”
If cons say it's bad for public unions to contribute to politicians because the politicians will be indebted to them. Why wouldn't it be bad for billionaires to contribute to politicians because they are paying the politicians to promise to weaken the collective bargaining power of the employees who work for the billionaires? Likewise, what the billionaires who pay the politicians to make it easier for the corporations to pollute? Or pay the politicians to pick judges and regulators that will not punish or restrain corporations from enriching themselves at the expense of folks who can't buy politicians?
If the money of unions corrupts politicians, why can't you admit that the money of billionaires does so too?
PBandJ_LeDouanier: "Drago,
The article has one of his 13 billionaire funders asking him to do something about the unions."
Yes, I read that.
And......? What exactly was "sold to the billionaires"?
And are you now laughably claiming that Walker wasn't running on a reduce-the-influence-of-the-public-sector-unions platform until some billionaire popped a question to him about it?
Again: list what was "sold" (your term).
On the other hand, back in reality, why don't you take a swing at the swag obama coughed up to his un-competitive green sector pals and how much of that sweet sweet cash was routed right back to the dems?
Not to worry, no one expects you to actually do that.
PB&J: "If the money of unions corrupts politicians, why can't you admit that the money of billionaires does so too?"
There is no question that Buffett's cash to obama has paid off handsomely in obama's failure to approve Keystone, the only real competition to Buffett's cool rail transport of oil gig.
"Engineer for 40 years here. ME. Machine tools, power plant, gas&electric, etc."
It's interesting that you're so confident things would be great if engineers were in charge of all political decisions.
On paper that may make some sense. But, I'll pass on that.
Would Jack Welch be President? Again, no thanks. I once saw him answering questions on Cspan. He was saying things about GE's Hudson River pollution that no Chem E could ever possibly believe.
But, he was paid big bucks to do what was best for GE shareholders. If that means doing bad by the rest of us, so be it.
Anywho, I think an engineers mind can be open to questioning and sometimes opposing Rs.
BTW, I've voted for many more Rs than Ds. So, I feel that the burden is on me to question the Rs, I'm responsible (in a small way) for what they screw up.
But, I did vote for BHO, twice. Hence, my current appreciation for Fox, Drudge and Althouse.
I would think that an engineer R would watch MSNBC and read Mother Jones. And, an engineer D would watch Fox and read Drudge. Nothing is to be gained by marinating in a supportive propaganda echo chamber.
PBandJ_LeDouanier,
Killing collective bargaining and making voting harder for less affluent folks results in more financial power for corporations and less political influence for non-rich folks, respectively.
But IIRC, Act 10 did not "kill" collective bargaining wrt to wages, which is still there. What it did "kill" was the other rules -- seniority, promotion, pensions, &c. Among other things, it nixed the requirement that schools use proprietary union vehicles for health insurance. The immediate result was the freeing up of a large pile of cash, such that schools have been hiring teachers rather than laying them off.
Others have said it, and I will too: If belonging to a union has positive benefits, greater than the dues asked, union members should pay the dues. If not, not.
Rules corrupt. Rules are designed to be revenue generators for the ruling class. If a business does not pay people off, they will be leaned on with arbitrary interpretations. Look at the case of Microsoft. Until the 1990s they had no lobbyists and paid off no-one. Then the Clinton Justice department leaned on them. They learned their lesson and now they pay. And smile while they are doing it.
The US is choked with rules, and is killing innovation. Its no accident that most of where growth is in industries that are relatively unburdened.
If the economy becomes oriented to playing with rules, nothing real is done anymore. Its wall to wall bureaucrats, consultants, lobbyists, bankers, billionaires, and lawyers. 7/10 of these guys are Democrats, including the billionaires. Useless mouths dictating to the productive.
And remember, it's unprecedented that anyone would question anybody's Christian belief.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-burnett/republicans-arent-christi_b_3292022.html
Fen's Law.
Over and over and over.....
My uncles were founding members of the Philippine communist party (Moscow Branch). One almost defected to Cuba. When young I had much to do with the communists in my country, as part of the anti-Marcos movement, and was once a "guest" of the New Peoples Army.
So I am well soaked in that ideology, thanks.
And I do read Mother Jones and such things ad the Guardian, occasionally. I also live in San Francisco, for 25 years. Their degree of bubble-thinking and general idiocy hasn't decreased. Its just minor bits of fashions that have changed. And they think they are avant garde.
Drago I showed you that Walker told his billionaire funders that he'd kill unions for them when they asked him to do so.
That is a quid pro quo. This is not debatable.
Likewise, unions that contribute to Ds get Ds that support them.
This is not rocket engineering.
PB&J: "I would think that an engineer R would watch MSNBC and read Mother Jones. And, an engineer D would watch Fox and read Drudge. Nothing is to be gained by marinating in a supportive propaganda echo chamber."
Gee, thanks for this "insight".
I would think that an engineer who claims a politician "sold" something would be trained sufficiently to methodically itemize that which was sold.
Maybe they aren't teaching engineering like they used to? After all, even the sciences can be a political football to the lefties.
You might want to read up on "Higher Superstition" (Gross & Levitt) and get back with us.
PBandJ_LeDouanier: "Drago I showed you that Walker told his billionaire funders that he'd kill unions for them when they asked him to do so.
That is a quid pro quo. This is not debatable."
This is not quid pro quo and that is not debatable.
And once again, it wasn't "unions", it was public sector unions.
And, once again, the curtailing the power of public sector unions was Walkers platform regardless of whether or not a donation came in from one particular funding sector.
Your "thinking" on this is so muddled it calls into question your self-proclaimed engineering background as well as your political even-handedness.
You have outlined a construct which, and this is not debatable, requires that the only way to avoid the appearance of quid pro quo arrangements is for donors to NOT donate to candidates with whom they are in political agreement.
PB&J: "Likewise, unions that contribute to Ds get Ds that support them."
Once again, public sector unions. And, once again, those union reps sit across the "negotiating" table with their elected pals and it all becomes one big beautiful incestuous relationship.
Which is the entire point.
Which you either have missed or have studiously ignored.
Either way: fail.
PB&J: "This is not rocket engineering."
Well, as we used to say while I was getting my MS in Astronautical Engineering, "This isn't rocket science, but even if it was.....you've still got me."
Public employee unions are an important part of the interlocked systems of political corruption. As are the regulatory agencies.
The old regime of our dictator, Marcos, was in reality far more transparent than the current US system.
M.D.K.
People will free load if they don't need to pay their share.
Imagine if paying for a meal was voluntary. You really think restaurants could survive?
Btw, from a self interest POV I hate unions. A few days ago I got into some details regarding what I pay some of the folks who work for me. I'm not going there again.
But, I will say that I'm theoretically open to the possibility that it may not be totally terrible that there are some seemingly arbitrary (i.e. union requirements and/or regulations) that limit where I can squeeze out some extra dough.
p.s. I'm currently suing the government over regulatory burdens (related to a building permit), so please don't chime in about how we must limit regulations and regulators. I still believe that most are good, some aren't.
PB&J: "But, I will say that I'm theoretically open to the possibility that it may not be totally terrible that there are some seemingly arbitrary (i.e. union requirements and/or regulations) that limit where I can squeeze out some extra dough"
Well, that sure reads like it was composed with engineering-like precision.....not.
"..totally terrible..."
Would it be better if it was only "mostly terrible" or something along the lines of "plain vanilla terrible"?
PB&J: "p.s. I'm currently suing the government over regulatory burdens (related to a building permit), so please don't chime in about how we must limit regulations and regulators. I still believe that most are good, some aren't."
Well, for what it's worth, good luck with that.
BTW, what state/locale are we talking about?
Another BTW, if what Walker did was "quid pro quo" and "not debatable", when can we expect the indictment?
And be careful with how you answer: garage cannot possibly withstand another heartbreaking defeat!
Drago you should keep up with the latest phases of the "divide and conquer" strategy. Walker has moved past only public sector unions.
So, as promised, he's satisfying his billionaire questioner who did not specify only public unions.
P.S.
What's with this thread and engineers? Aren't there any cool people here?
Regulators (federal state and municipal) have destroyed industry after industry in our state (California). There are US industries that could exist in a globally competitive sense if it were not for regulation and what's worse, political risk due to arbitrary behavior on the part of regulators.
Environmental considerations have gone off the edge of reason into what can appear to be insanity, but is easily understood as an elaborate cover for corruption.
Cool is a tactic used by unscrupulous people to blind the rest.
The entire concept is evil.
It's a county in WA sate. I'm not going to say more than that, these are power plays that solve themselves very quickly when you show up w/ some legal muscle. So, this problem will go away. I've been waiting on a permit for a year and a half and the county has repeatedly missed their own deadlines. I have a real estate lawyer that I use several times a year. I can guarantee that my permit will sail through the process. It's like clockwork.
I will say that it's not King County. I have a house in Seattle but I live in two other counties too, and I have work in five counties.
"Cool is a tactic used by unscrupulous people to blind the rest."
Well, I'm going to Austin Thursday, and I'm planning to hang out with cool people.
They're not so bad.
"There are US industries that could exist in a globally competitive sense if it were not for regulation"
Rather than make us polluted like China and many other countries that lack regulations, I'd rather see those countries increase regulations.
But, if that can't happen, I'd rather see them keep the pollution over there.
In the 80s-90s California had entire categories of light industry that have since been exterminated. And it wasn't polluted like China.
Read up on the recent Sriracha case. They survived vs the organized political criminals (using "environmental" regs) because they had publicity, and the bosses in Sacramento called off the dogs. The same thing goes on ubiquitously, and outfits doing precision aluminum casting don't have the publicity available to makers of a popular hot sauce.
The reason the regs exist is to permit the crooks to get their squeeze.
BTW, I do apologize for my grammatical errors.
I'm multitasking. I'm still plugging away at work after more than fifteen hours (like a good capitalist!) so I need to split my attention.
b.p.
I'm glad that I don't need to only rely on my "good angels" as inspiration to make sure my businesses aren't pushing people and practices too hard in the pursuit of profit.
In other words, every week there are situations where I throw money at something to make it safe or more environmental when there is only a very small chance that not doing so would actually result in a problem that would make its way back to costing me money.
I like having the threat of the government hanging over me, even though I'm wired to do the right thing anyway. It's a nice nudge. And, it means that my competitors must care about these things too. Without regulations, it'd definitely be cheaper for them to roll the dice and deal with the rare occasions where something actually came back to them.
We spend a lot to protect against rare dangers. But Rs love this.
Three thousand people die so we suffer the loss of thousands more in a misdirected response, not to mention many trillions, and we trade away privacy for good measure. Meanwhile (according to the CDC) we lose than 130,000 to accidents each year.
Of course we need to fight our enemies, even when on paper doing so may not pencil out. Life is not math. Likewise, I pay to protect people and the environment even when those investments cost more than they make. It's not so bad that my competitors (and I) have regulations and unions that keep us listening to our good angels.
The Bush Family head fake is strong.
Look at this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/business/dealbook/sec-hamstrung-by-its-leaders-legal-ties.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
According to this the Rs on the SEC want to limit penalties to the ill gotten gains.
That is horrible. There is literally no disincentive. Businesses know that they'll rarely get caught (especially if Rs are cutting back regulatory oversight). So this is a no brainer. Companies should commit fraud.
Imagine if the penalty for shoplifting was to give back whatever was stolen. It won't work.
"If cons say it's bad for public unions to contribute to politicians because the politicians will be indebted to them. Why wouldn't it be bad for billionaires to contribute to politicians because they are paying the politicians to promise to weaken the collective bargaining power of the employees who work for the billionaires? "
Public unions work for billionaires? Can you explain which public unions work for which billionaires?
"It's not so bad that my competitors (and I) have regulations and unions that keep us listening to our good angels. "
Government unions make taxpayers listen to our good angels? Explain.
Moreover, how does "endangered species act" help taxpayers?
"According to this the Rs on the SEC want to limit penalties to the ill gotten gains."
This is NYT. Same NYT that blamed Walker for the budget cuts before he became governor of Wisconsin. Come on, this is a hard-left newspaper with no concept of honesty.
Your country is dying.
Its choking to death on self induced terrors justifying a crippling bureaucracy.
For years now the hottest item in business investment, for industrial firms, is "compliance". Not new technology or new and better products, but cheaper and more certain ways to stave off the regulator and the lawsuit.
There is no innovation, kids are deterred from being creative (and the best kill their brains with videogames because there is nothing better to do), and now you people are even failing to reproduce.
You are laying out a Pollyanna idea that is absurd. Your people need open eyes not fairy tales.
A great people is committing suicide.
Your country is dying.
Its choking to death on self induced terrors justifying a crippling bureaucracy.
For years now the hottest item in business investment, for industrial firms, is "compliance". Not new technology or new and better products, but cheaper and more certain ways to stave off the regulator and the lawsuit.
There is no innovation, kids are deterred from being creative (and the best kill their brains with videogames because there is nothing better to do), and now you people are even failing to reproduce.
You are laying out a Pollyanna idea that is absurd. Your people need open eyes not fairy tales.
A great people is committing suicide.
P.S.
What's with this thread and engineers? Aren't there any cool people here?
Engineers are the cool people.
Get with it.
I'm voting for Scott Walker if I have to write his name in.
"The attack on Walker is low, because it uses the terms "union" and "labor" without specifying what I think must always be specified to be fair: Walker's reforms were about public employee unions."
They always do that, Ann. Every story about any politician who criticizes public employee unions is painted as "anti-union". And every story about any politician who criticizes illegal aliens is "anti-immigrant". It's how they push the narrative.
buwaya - you're right.
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