"You know, never paying attention to the right things... Basic social engagement is really a struggle.... I’m very literal.... When people talk to me and they use expressions, sometimes I don’t know what they’re saying.... I don’t see it as dysfunctional.... I just think of it as an alternate mind-set."
Differently abled, but not so differently that he's out of the zone where you can take what's different about you and leap ahead of other people.
The president of the National Autism Association worries that statements like Seinfeld's might cause people to lose track of the seriousness of the disability at the "lower-functioning end of the spectrum." "Autism is not a designer diagnosis."
A commenter at the link says: "Jerry, I have a daughter with full-blown, low-functioning autism. It bugs me so much to see every socially awkward person and their brother diagnose themselves with autism or pressure their doctors to diagnose them with autism. You have no clue, Jerry. You have no clue."
What do you think of this tendency to identify with the autistic? The experts define autism as a spectrum, which seems to invite all of us to think about the extent to which we share characteristics with those who are elsewhere on the spectrum. Isn't it helpful for some successful people like Seinfeld to encourage people further along the spectrum to see their characteristics in a positive light?
But there are issues of channeling contributions to charities and funding government services, and these are matters that must rivet the attention of the president of the National Autism Association and the father of daughter with full-blown, low-functioning autism.
ADDED: If it's a spectrum, what's at the opposite extreme? Some people say it's Williams Syndrome.
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That's gold, Jerry. Pure gold!
I'm with the commenter on this. Every person with minor personality quirks suddenly wants to declare themselves a member of this not-so-exclusive society.
Yes, it comes down to that. How much of other people's money do you want the Government to seize and redistribute.
"Autism is on a spectrum" says nothing. Everything is on a spectrum - until and unless the Universe ends at Absolute Zero temperature.
Just a matter of, e.g. where you want to set the "Poverty Level. Everyone has a right to Life, Liberty, the Pursuit of Happiness.
..and food
..and clean water
..and shelter
..and paid employment
..and prescription drugs
..and medical insurance
..and ...
..and an Obamaphone
I have many friends who are special education teachers. Not to minimize any one particular parents experience, but there is, according to these teachers, the increased "need" in a school district, to classify children as being on the spectrum. This allows the schools to get more federal $ for the school. On the other hand, every child that is classified needs an IEP and that is time intensive for the teacher and all the support staff to compile and review the IEP.
Draw your own conclusions as to why there maybe more children labeled as being on the spectrum.
And then the angry little president of the National Autism Association stamped his foot and shouted at the sour-faced old comedian - “That’s not nice! You should apologize right now!” And everyone stared at him open-mouthed – the comedian, the blogger, the readers. The comedian sputtered out something about being on a spectrum and struggling with social engagement, and the president said, “No, autism doesn’t love everybody! It really bugs me, you know?” And while everyone was just blinking, the little autistic girl primly picked up the newspaper she’d been cutting all the vowels out of and walked up to the refrigerator and asked, “Has anyone seen Woody’s hat?”
"on a very drawn-out scale, I think I'm on the spectrum" -- read 'I am very smart with high IQ like an autistic person but I am not that socially inept.'
Williams Syndrome
Distinctive facial characteristics = Alfred E. Neuman.
The authors of 2013's "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition" deliberately collapsed the previous edition's Asperger's, autism, and a few more into one Autism Spectrum Disorder. They also deliberately didn't break it down on the basis of high-functioning versus low-functioning, even though a Dr. Sheldon Cooper is very different from my nephew Robbie. I'm not sure their decision was correct.
(The DSM is developed and published by the American Psychiatric Association. "In the United States the DSM serves as a universal authority for psychiatric diagnosis. Treatment recommendations, as well as payment by health care providers, are often determined by DSM classifications, so the appearance of a new version has significant practical importance," saith Wikipedia.)
Well, he must be odd. Remember he had that teenage girlfriend, and then he courted his wife when she was a newlywed (only married a few weeks). That is very strange. She kinda strange, too.
When I was in elementary school, I was several years ahead in intellectual matters, but definitely behind in social matters, which I've always found difficult to deal with. I know people similar to me who talk about the "autistic spectrum." I've never done so; I've read about the level of difficulty people like Temple Grandin experience, and I'm nowhere near to that. I'm just not naturally good at social interaction.
So many people a label. Sometimes I want one too. OCD, Aspie and dyslexic are popular. But does it really help explain things, or do you just start to alter your personality to fit the label?
Certainly people get govt goodies for the labels, but Seinfeld shouldn't need all that.
You mean Aspergers is not a complement? Watching Seinfeld has become my secret addiction.
I think betamax3000 might be afflicted. Just an observation.
Methinks the Autism President doth protest too much.
What's next boycotting Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory because he has a girlfriend and a steady job?
I admit someone who made hundreds of millions of dollars making others laugh live is probably not on "the spectrum" at all, but we didn't know little Jerry as a child. He might have been a poster kid for Asperger's and trained himself to function appropriately.
What do you think of this tendency to identify with the autistic?
That's easy. Our society glorifies victims. People just want to burnish their victim credentials.
When did introversion become a disability? Why does someone who doesn't relate to his peers well because just maybe they aren't his peers need to be socially conditioned to accept stupid as the norm? Given time, he'll figure it out. A person who is truly autistic needs help to survive in he world. It's done through social conditioning. Labeling someone who's shy, introverted, and maybe smarter than average as being on the autism spectrum opens the door to supporting "social conditioning" for those folks, too. "Quiet and shy" is not a disability. Jerry Seinfeld is an astute observer of human nature. That's not a disability.
To rerun a post from yesterday that fits here as well,
Temple Grandin commmented at TED about contains between intelligence and high functioning autism:
Autism is a very big continuum that goes from very severe -- the child remains non-verbal -- all the way up to brilliant scientists and engineers.
And I actually feel at home here,
because there's a lot of autism genetics here.
I know that I'm socially inept. Always have been. Never once thought to spin it up into autism or Aspergers.
The problem here is not that some comedian might self-identify on the "autism spectrum," but that "autistic kids" are seen as being ouside the human spectrum and, instead, labeled and separated out.
By the way, if a man can self-identify as a woman and be applauded for it, or if a man, who by nature is made for joinder with a woman, self-identifies as joining with another man instead and can have courts across the country cheering, then anyone who wants can self-identify as any damn thing he wants - autistic, amputee, deaf, young, old, black, white -- its all up for grabs. We all get to define our own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.
If anyone reading this is a psychologist with an eye for the main chance, consider that the middle of the spectrum must contain oodles of personality types that haven't been turned into diseases yet. Pick one and get your name on it while there's still time!
Autism is a big deal to pediatric neurologists and I advised a student of mine to look into it as a career when we were discussing her interests last year. I think we are about 10 years from a potential treatment that really works.
One unfortunate incident at summer camp with the chainsaw, and everyone wants to label you as psycho killer or mass murderer. Psycho killers occur on a spectrum and should be judged accordingly.
The spectrum only applies to autistic individuals. There is no "opposite".
And people who compare normal personality quirks to the traits of autism are missing the point: it is a disorder because the autistic people are impaired. People who lack social skills may have some difficulties, but they function.
Also important to note- the way that psychiatry defines disorders according to symptoms is idiotic, and leads to a lot of this confusion. By this classification system, we would consider a 24 hour stomach bug to be a milder form of the spectrum which also includes Ebola, as though people with those illnesses both had the same disorder but in varying degrees.
Further- Jerry Seinfeld doesn't literally take everything literally. People with autism, who do that, can't comprehend humor. He takes things literally because that makes them absurd, and funny. Autistic people take language literally because they don't get any other way to interpret the words.
What I found most remarkable about Seinfeld is how he shuns the entourage of assistant and manager types you'd expect. He travels light. He looks after his own affairs. I was gobsmacked to have to deal with him directly on several matters.
As he said to me, "I'm a comedian, not AC/DC".
So I never thought of him as someone needing to be insulated from dealing with people he didn't know. But that's business, not "social" interaction. Still, he also seemed pretty open to meeting new people, if not so adept at small talk outside of sports, etc.
My husband, daughter and I are currently having this conversation in our home. She is 13 and barely missed an autism diagnosis when she was 5. We thought she would outgrow some of the quirks but they seem to be getting more intense with age. At her recent checkup, her doctor asked for a moment alone after her exam and said that while she's a pediatrician and not a child psychiatrist in her opinion our daughter seems very Aspie to her and we should have her evaluated.
We are well aware of these traits in our daughter--social awkwardness, obsession with various things that catch her interest, high IQ, high concentration--and she is too. Our main concern is that she is comfortable in her own skin.
So far she is blissfully unconcerned with the opinions of her peers and does not seem troubled by her lack of a conventional junior high social life. She spends a lot of time interacting with her "internet friends" on topics that interest her such as Minecraft, Dr. Who and Transformers. She writes fanfiction. Her dad and I privately wish that once in a while she would go to a sleepover or play with different hairstyles like her peers, but ultimately--she is a high achiever (straight As in gifted classes, first chair in honors band with her instrument, making fast progress with her piano studies, and excels at martial arts) and is happy in her own way, so we see no point in pursing a diagnosis for her.
She's just who she is. We talked with her about seeing a behavioral specialist as her doctor recommended, and she very sensibly said that it wouldn't hurt to talk to the person and see if there are some tips and helps she could use when she can't figure out a social situation, but that she doesn't think anything is wrong with her that needs to be fixed. Her dad and I entirely agree.
Too bad if President Autism doesn't like it. It's a big spectrum, and on the mild end there are some benefits. That's reality. Reality doesn't have to conform to an agenda.
As someone who was, um, 'differently behaved" from my classmates and my teachers' expectations in my early youth, I've often wondered what would have been if they had tested and diagnosed for autism back then. Would it have been a needed therapy or an excuse for me to not alter my behavior?
On the other hand, I also preceded the ritalin craze, which probably spared me from leaving school a stoned drone...
I wonder how much autism diagnosis isn't plain old character amour, as defined by Wilhelm Reich. See Reich's definitive book: Character Analysis
the spectrum of "autism" is so large that it encompasses every possible human behavior.
Shut up you global entertainment icon who could bring great attention, media, and fundraising to our cause!
@IHMMP:
Bless you. Seriously. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
It's a disability.
If it doesn't hinder you, you don't have it.
Much of DSM-5 says, if you have some set of symptoms but they don't mess with your life, you don't have a disorder. However, if they do give you serious problems, you have an official Disorder. You should go see a professional because insurance will now pay him or her to help you.
You know what bothers me almost as much as my wife's refusal to keep my CD's alphabetized? Jerks who object to me making jokes about my OCD because somebody else has it worse.
Enh. Everyone, but everyone is unhappy about "autism spectrum disorder." The Asperger's folks resent being lumped in with the low-to-non-functioning. The parents of the low-to-non-functioning resent the Asperger's folks horning in on the genuine plight of their children with tales of social awkwardness and (of course) utterly brilliant mental powers. No one is actually pleased with DSM-V.
I managed to escape diagnosis on the "spectrum" mainly because I was born too early. Now, I'd be a natural: shy, outcast, very good at math and music, but with essentially no friends, relentlessly picked on at school. But, see, back in the day, that was a recognized personality profile, not a frakkin' diagnosis.
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