Imagine if they'd gotten their majority. What gloating and grandiose claims would gush forth? They'd be merciless. The recall elections were a referendum on Walker! A referendum on the Tea Party! A victory for Obama and for taxing the pants off the rich! Especially the Koch Brothers!
It was just one state senate seat that made the difference. The Republicans got it. Should they exult and make their version of the extreme statements the Democrats would be making right now if Fred Clark had managed to scramble over the top in District 14? (If only he hadn't quipped that he'd like to smack that lady around, or if her answering machine hadn't caught it, this country would be a completely different place today, now, wouldn't it?)
But the Republicans will probably go with graciousness, won't they? Why do they do that? Some attitude of restraint inherent in conservatism? Fear of Democrats chiding them about civility, coming together, and compromise? It's good not to gloat, but I just want to point out: The Democrats would have gloated. Am I wrong?
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१३६ टिप्पण्या:
nope
MMM...maybe I'm unworthy, but I'm gloating. Big time. A look at Twitter at 1:30 this a.m. would have revealed lots of gloating. As far as publicly through the media, though, no, conservatives are, well, conservative.
Gloating is the behavior of children, thus Democrats, personified by President Barack (I Won) Obama. Graciousness is the behavior of adults, thus Republicans, personified by George W. (Turn the other cheek) Bush.
Of course, that's what children do. What now? I think flash mob riots and Temper Tantrums from those who think the world owes them a living.
I only want to gloat for a couple of hours.
After that, back to business.
You are correct, professor. I am an independent and see horseshit on both sides. However, Dems are the gloaters. It wasn't always that way. The Clintons gave the Dems that charming quality.
Gloat in private, be circumspect in public.
Plus there is not much to gloat about. The margins are narrow and there is another election next year (and next week, of course.)
Meanwhile Dow is down 2% in early trading and gold rose by $40 an ounce to another record high early this morning.
It's ugly out there, and much work to do.
They'd probably be saying something like:
Fix Bayonets (And Prepare To Attack On All Fronts)
That would be my guess anyway,...
If you missed the gloating, check your comment threads.
Or for that matter, your posts (though I admit I laughed uncontrollably at that one).
I'll gloat if I can think of anything that hasn't been said already, but I think this story has finally run it's course. Now it's time for all those bug-eyed and spittle flecked morons who were wandering around Madison over the last few months to go back to work teaching the children of Wisconsin. Good luck with that.
I saw vote totals less than 10,000 for one of the candidates. This race has NO national significance at all unless you want to go to 5 significant figures past the decimal place.
(a little scientific humor there)
Franken made a comedy bit out of his own gloating over Kerry's win in 2004.
A rare example of self-deprecation on the left.
He said they were in full gloat mode on the radio, which subsided as the day wore on, and he knew that they'd lost when Barney Frank said they were cautiously optimistic.
Spot on.
See also: Bob @ #3
Bob,
Graciousness is the behavior of adults, thus Republicans, personified by George W. (Turn the other cheek) Bush.
He also got crushed under a sea of lies, resulting in the mess we have today.
Learn from our mistakes - no mercy:
Rub it in their faces.
What's to stop another round of recall petitions?
I'm surprised that the Republicans lost any seats at all, and take it as an indication of voter idiocy.
For most of my life, it's been the Republicans who have won moral victories, and the Democrats who have, you know, won.
It's nice to win.
Some attitude of restraint inherent in conservatism?
More like maturity. After all, we're used to dealing with co-workers, employees and bosses.
Fear of Democrats chiding them about civility, coming together, and compromise?
I'd say that used to be the case when the left successfully branded all conservatives and old, white guys, but that stereotype doesn't hold any longer outside a Simpsons episode...and it's even starting to loose traction there.
It's good not to gloat
It's NEVER good to gloat. One of the key foundations I raise my kids on (having been a serial bragger myself in my yoot)
but I just want to point out: The Democrats would have gloated.
Yes, they would have. Unfortunately, one of the side-effects of bringing the fight down to their level is that some people on our side will gloat as much as they ever could have. Remember, though, that we're on the DAY AFTER THE ELECTION. If contemporary elections have told us anything, we should wait until the results are certified and it's clear no lawsuits are in the offing before lighting the fireworks.
Am I wrong?
About the gloating? Nope. Maybe about collective versus individual sin... :)
Bush/Kerry was fun. The Left over at Dem Underground was gloating as soon as they saw the (bogus) exit polls. By the afternoon, they were in total meltdown.
Fun to see, but a good lesson on why you shouldn't gloat.
Besides, David is spot on. There's not much to gloat about. Although I'm happy to see the Union Thugs go impotent. Hopefully, SCOTUS will revoke Obamacare and all of the Lefts time and effort will have been wasted on that front as well.
And yes, Alpha Garage et al would have been UNBEARABLE if they had won last night.
I see nothing for the Republicans to gloat about. They lost two Senate seats. They should be happy they kept the Senate, and maybe even rejoice a bit, but they have no reason to gloat.
Now if they take seats from the Democrats next week that would be something they could gloat about. But I'd still prefer it if they didn't.
Conservatives and small government advocates from both sides won in the general election. They have now won in an expensive recall election that was designed to run roughshod over the majority electorate.
This was a terrible strategic error by the anarchist crowd who managed to alienate conservatives and moderate democrats. Not only did they alienate both sides of the aisle they have also managed to have them join forces. Worse, the rest of the country was watching and learning.
"Stuck on stupid!" Violence to follow?
Rush will do all the conservative gloating.
What's the polling for the two seats up next week look like?
The painful awareness of how much money and time they put into all this ruckus will serve to dampen Democrat ardor for another one of these exercises (I hope).
And usually I pay the Democrats the civility to call them the "Democratic" party and not go for that kind of Rovian silliness, but today?
They don't deserve to have this Recall exercise treated as "democracy." In this whole foolish business they have conducted themselves like "democraps".
wv: ladshed Where they're throwing the chavs in Britain, I hope!
lincolntf said: "...but I think this story has finally run it's course."
Come on Lincoln, you know the left better than this.
They never get tired, never admit defeat, apparently have no understanding of democracy, cheat to achieve any end, and don't have productive lives to hinder their participation in societal dismantling.
They just won't stop. They're always on the strategic and tactical offensive. The right always plays defense. They play to win, we play to delay losing.
Imagine if they'd gotten their majority.
It isn't hard to do.
Too much chest thumping generally leads to a downfall. Still, the GOP should point out there is an affirmation of the voters of what they are doing.
I think another win for the Dems last night might've affected the voter turnout for next week, and not in a good way for Dems. Gloating would be premature.
It sounded like you were gloating in the 'Bueller' post.
How is the balloon?
Has anyone checked on the balloon?
The politicians shouldn't openly gloat, but the rest of us can. A big gloat-fest, led by Rush, is in order.
Don't forget that there are two races next week that offer the Republicans the opportunity to add to their majority.
Holperin (D - incumbent) is vulnerable. Kim Simac has a real shot to unseat him.
Wirch (D - incumbent) is probably safe but the last poll I saw was a statistical dead heat (Steitz was trailing but within the margin of error).
This might not be over yet.
I had a discussion once with a friend about why some people work hard and do their best even when nobody is watching and why others do just the opposite - take advantage of every opportunity to do the wrong thing if they thought they could get away with it,and why the two hardly ever switch sides.
My contention was that it's just the way they are made by both genetics and nurturing. People who act honorably have no choice. Being jerks would be like choosing to eat rotten meat. They just can't get it down and don't even consider it.
Dems are jerks. They are comfortable with it. All they need is opportunity. To make it worse, the condition of the press means it's like nobody is watching.
Republicans will probably go with graciousness-- really in what world is that?
Derisional tide floats all gloats
Rub it in their faces, and if they get blinded and fall down, kick them. QAnd keep kicking them until they know not to get up again. And every time they ask you to stop, kick them again, until they understand to be quiet.
These are liberals.
Imagine Debbie Wasserman Shultz.
Hey Professor--tell us again about your cooly rational decision to vote for Obama--and you have the fucking nerve to skewer Garage? really-you are bigger idiot than garage and have yet to say you were utterly wrong--The word "wrong" upsets you apparently.
Garage was wrong; I was wrong when I bet garage, and you are wrong now except you have got the courage to say it.
It would have been the dawning of the age of Aquarius.
Hey Professor--tell us again about your cooly rational decision to vote for Obama--and you have the fucking nerve to skewer Garage? really-you are bigger idiot than garage and have yet to say you were utterly wrong--The word "wrong" upsets you apparently.
Listen, I enjoy beating on Althouse as much as anybody, but this seems like a waste of time.
Althouse's vote did not swing the election. 2008 is over.
I'm not sure that the urge to gloat is necessarily greater in one group or the other. It's that any instance of gloating by conservatives is actively argued with by the press, whereas the press actively encourages the outlandish claims of the Democrats.
The mindless ideas of the modern progressive have no respect for anything that's trditional, no matter how time tested or good. This applies to respecting elections and conducting yourself honorably.
Shouting: of course her vote was inconsequential--but to go off on garage was a major petty--it is the professors hypocracy that I do not like. A law professor can never be wrong--just ask them; but its OK to go off on someone who misjudged the wisconsin election just as she did on the presidential election. Really sad--really fucking sad.
Ann is not skewering Garage.
She is giving him an opportunity (calling on him) to respond.
Like a man. Like an adult.
Garage could turn the tables on the professor with a few well-chosen words.
What do you mean If the Democrats had won 1 more seat...
We won't know who actually won until we hear from the Election Defense Alliance. They're non-partisan, you know.
Legal Insurrection has all the gloat you could wish for, in the YouTube at the bottom.
Gloat Away!
M stone: the professor continues to rationalize her bad decision--why shoule garage do anything other?
I could be wrong, but isn't it the Democrats, as well, who started this habit of recall elections when they don't get what they want?
Maybe one of the reasons the GOP won yesterday is because most voters do not want to hear gloating. Maybe the GOP won yesterday because they act like adults.
The results yesterday is a huge colossus in American politics. If the Walker agenda had been stopped, the people of WI would deserve poverty and disaster for its future life.
Sobriety and intelligence won the day. Is virtue something to be gloated?
Meanwhile, the children continue to act up, kick, hold their breath until blue in the face and scream.
Ann is not skewering Garage.
I agree. Garage and A-Lib were doing a lot of trash-posting yesterday. Ann is just shaking the can of treats to entice them out of their holes.
"(If only he hadn't quipped that he'd like to smack that lady around, or if her answering machine hadn't caught it, this country would be a completely different place today, now, wouldn't it?)"
What is happening in Wisconsin is interesting for political junkies.
But the country wouldn't be a different place today, no matter the outcome.
I understand that living in the state must have been a trip the last few months, but do you really think any state election could change the USA into a completely different place? I respectfully suggest a vacation -- away from Wisconsin.
I'll take a crack at the general question.
One reason that the left has always had an advantage is that the inherent philosophy of the right is that, not just the state per se, but politics in general, should be boxed in to where maybe they matter some, but they are just one thing that matters, preferably behind family, church, community, business, etc.
And they are up against an adversary that believes the state and politics in general to be the be-all, end-all, absolutist determinant of every aspect of our lives, and the ultimate controlling authority of...family, church, community, business, etc.
Gee, which side do you think holds an inherent advantage in politics and control of the levers of the state?
This is why many were so fearful of these recalls, are ecstatic at the dodged bullet and eternally thankful to Wisconsin conservatives for fighting the fight.
Now guess what -- it's not over. Wisconsin conservatives NEED to show up next week in the Dem recalls to hammer the point home that they will not be cowed.
And THEN it will be over..... right?
Wrong. And every conservative in America must accept the following: The fight to be "left alone", will NEVER end. Never never never never never never NEVER. NEVER. Because your opponents will NEVER stop. EVER. They will never ever EVER stop trying to "make a better world" on the backs of YOUR earnings, your values, your history, your country. They will NEVER stop. Ever.
Ever.
So if you have any illusions of finally beating them back, and then just living your life as a free American, give it up now. Or give up the game to them and their ilk, and submit yourself and your children to their endless and eternal whims for the rest of your and their lives.
So Wisconsin... one more time.... next week. For now. And America? There is no "one more time". There is only a fight that I am afraid will never, ever end. I wish it were not so, but you go to life with the world ya got. It is a fight we can win, but any victory must be held. Forever. Starting today, and next week in the Dem recalls in Wisconsin.
That's our world. Do your best and fight the fight. And get used to it - your opponents certainly have.
I don't think of professional politicians or their satellites and enablers as a particularly gracious bunch.
Republican or Democrat, they can win by a hair and insist they have a mandate.
Wisconsin Republicans should be grateful that they survived while the Democrats were expending so much.
On to the next engagement.
The Democrats are desperately defending an Old Order. They will keep throwing everything in until they run out of resources to throw.
Trained gloating professionals. There's a transcript, but you really have to play the video to get the most out of it.
pinkmonkeybird: I could be wrong, but isn't it the Democrats, as well, who started this habit of recall elections when they don't get what they want?
Maybe in WI, but the first recall of prominence that I remember was the CA recall of Gray Davis (Dem) that led to Ah-nuld's election as guv. At that point libs bemoaned how the recall process was being misappropriated from its original intent. They subsequently seem to have changed their tune.
Maybe Ann could weigh in on the legalities surrounding current recall laws, and if they continue to be applied superfluously, could they be restricted in the future? This election season thing every 6-9 months is going to get old quick.
Lord, can you imagine the Left's lockstep triumphalism had a mere one more seat in WI gone to the Democrats? It would have been characterized as an epochal turning point in American history. I may have to watch Ed Shultz tonight just to see his veins throb--though on second thought, I think I'll have a root canal instead.
Sorry, I put up with 8 months of absolutely boorish behavior by people who want to tax me out of my home. I'm going to gloat a little.
They must be demoralized. Do you understand? Do you want to go through this again?
We were talking the other day about the laws that prevent men from doing the right thing. Do you want that to change? Then Destroy The Opposition.
We were talking about the laws that keep men - all men - from stepping into the lives of black kids who have gone astray. Do you want that to change? Then Destroy The Opposition.
We've talked of laws in Family Court that have literally destroyed men to the laughter of feminists who claim anything those men do is only revenge against themselves. Do you want that to change? Then Destroy The Opposition.
Gloat. Dance. And take any opportunity to throw a (metaphorical) elbow with a smile. Be Michael Jordan - no mercy.
Don't worry about how it looks - they didn't. We are here because we didn't fight back. I am a Bush Republican and I can admit that. That was our problem. We must play for keeps this time. Because it must be the last time - look around:
We don't have anymore chances.
First person to find a flyer/facebook group/advertisement for a NEW rally/protest by Libs in Madison wins 1,ooo Schrute bucks. Gotta be one out there somewhere.
What did Gov. Walker lose last night, that he wouldn't have lost in 2012, had (a) he not pushed his union-bargaining legislation and (b) there had been no recalls?
My conclusion is nothing.
I think it's pretty clear Wisconsin is a purple state. Wow - is it ever a purple state. That's why this fight seems to go on and on and on and on. It's so closely divided that all state elections will most likely come down to less then a few thousand votes in one county.
In the next ten years I would expect power to shift back and forth between the parties. I'm sure it will be distressing to strong partisans who live in the state and care about politics. But Wisconsin political junkies will also have fun watching these elections like closely fought baseball games.
It's time fir someone to tell the Democrats that Wisconsin just isn't that into them. It's time for them to find a state that will love them for who they are.
The conservative twitterati are gloating, so your covered.
I hear the Dems are trying to get a Republican (Dale Shultz) to flip.
Legal Insurrection
Andrew X hits it bang in the nuts. Chris Matthews (in one of his saner moments) commented on Hardball almost 20 yrs ago about the same phenomenon, saying, "Democrats are like Communists, they attend every meeting on every issue large or small until the wee hours and the bitter end until everyone else has given up and gone home and they're the only ones left to vote. Politics is their whole life, and I oughtta know, I worked for Tip O'Neil."
There are a lot of Republicans I don't care for that much and I think are kind of dofusses. But the leadership in Madison now is very good. One thing I like is that they are grownups. No gloating. No bragging. No games. And they don't care if a vote they make causes them to lose their positions. They do what they think is best for Wisconsin.
"I hear the Dems are trying to get a Republican (Dale Shultz) to flip."
Perhaps this is the bulletin board material that the Republicans need to get them to come out and vote Tuesday. A 1 person majority is pretty shakey.
And bagoh20. In re: Your thesis. The key word is "SHAME." The Dims HAVE NONE--they are utterly shameless in pursuit of their goals; thus feeling perfectly comfortable in acting in ways that no ordinary person with a sense of shame would even dream of. You're right, they're totally comfortable with it all..for them ANY means justifies the ends..
PS to bagoh20/
I mean, if you're gonna make an omelet, ya gotta break some eggs, right? (didn't some guy famous for sumpin' or another say that somewhere once before?...naw, just my imagination..)
Yes WI Can!
To Andrew_X:
You're in good company.
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." -- Wendell Phillips
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
--Thomas Paine
Kohler Co. to announce a new line of high-flow toilets that allow Democrats to flush $30 million dollars at a time.
Althouse has a taste for troll bait, which you can always recognize by "Can you imagine what those Democrats would be like if only THIS had happened?"
The fight to be "left alone", will NEVER end. Never never never never never never NEVER. NEVER. Because your opponents will NEVER stop. EVER. They will never ever EVER stop trying to "make a better world" on the backs of YOUR earnings, your values, your history, your country. They will NEVER stop. Ever.
Ever.
Or as some dead guy once put it, Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty
Where is garage and AL? LOL!!!! Up their asses with a resurrection!
Nice to see Ann is getting fed up with the left-tards. Finally.
The main reason that the right is gloating at all is because the left was so invested in this. After all the one-sided money spent, the stakes raising by MSNBC types, the crazy lies about Walker's budget, and all the rest, the conservatives simply went to the ballot box and chose restraint...again.
Thank You Wisconsin voters, but it should have been a a total rout. We have a lot of work to do.
This is how garage feels today:
Die motherfuckers die
Crack wishes he was as talented as Geto Boys.
Andrew X wrote: The fight to be "left alone", will NEVER end. Never never never never never never NEVER. NEVER. Because your opponents will NEVER stop.
Brilliant and tragic. Liberty requires constantly sweating out the poison.
If Dale Shultz switches parties at this juncture, he'll become more infamous than Snarlin' Arlen.
The mere thought of such a thing should galvanize Republicans into going to the polls in those two districts next week.
This election season thing every 6-9 months is going to get old quick.
Walker&Crew say that unions need to vote for re-certification each&every year, so why not vote to re-certify our politicians every year as well?
The Clintons gave the Dems that charming quality.
Yeah that "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow" dance.
Does union re-certification involve weeks of political ads and yard signs?
Get rid of public sector unions. They're corrupting.
Since this whole election abused the recall laws in a naked attempt to overturn the results of the 2010 election, at least a sigh of relief is warranted.
And the Legislature should smartly revise the recall laws, to narrow the scope of 'offenses' permitting such mass attempts at hijacking power by soreheaded minorities with vast out-of-state war chests.
Next week's recall of Democratic fleebaggers at least has some color of justice, for their interference with democratic proceedings.
But recall elections should not provide color of law for simply sniping off legislators who vote as they were elected to do.
Insufficiently Sensitive - head on nail. You win the internets for today.
I have always had a very low opinion of partisans who proclaim "the people have spoken" and "the will of the people" and all that crap when they win an election 52/48 or whatever. Always have, always will. If those people believe it, they're idiots. If they don't, they are insulting our intelligence. Either way, they're fuck sticks.
This really has been an abuse of the recall provision. I don't know what to do about it, however.
"It sounded like you were gloating in the 'Bueller' post."
The dick deserved it.
Gloating, shmoating. If this had gone the other way, the news media would be portraying this as an event of huge significance, a grass-roots rejection of tea-party extremism, etc.
But when big labor fails, notwithstanding flooding the state with money, in the cradle of progressivism? Not much to see here . . . .
"I hear the Dems are trying to get a Republican (Dale Shultz) to flip."
That's the problem with gloating (besides the fact that it's crass). Nothing's stable. The shoe will always end up on the other foot.
Now Let's Knock Wirch from His Perch
For All the Fleebagger Besmirched
Rules and Civility
Rights and Responsibility
Foamy Piss-Dirt Scum of the Earth.
""I hear the Dems are trying to get a Republican (Dale Shultz) to flip."
You gotta admire the depth of the dishonorables' play book. It keeps going and going and going and..
The people have spoken.
The recall concept is one that should be lightly used anyway, and not just if elected officials do their job differently than the minority party would like.
I think, somewhere along the way, people initially sympathetic to the Hero teachers, Hero Cops, Hero factotums in some nameless state office building employing hundreds of such unionized Hero drones - lost that sympathy.
Could it have been in the unending sore loser protests at the State Capital? Could it have been when even some that voted against Walker and Republicans or didn't vote at all start thinking - "Doesn't respect for democracy mean accepting election outcomes and if you have a beef - wait and fix it in the NEXT election??" Could it have been all the radicals and union goons and outside money coming into the state - which belied initial claims that Walker and the Republicans gained office from an Outside assault on the ingigenous hero government employee unions of Wisconsin? Was it people getting alienated on learning just how little the unions would sacrifice - while the masses had sacrificed plenty in their state and local taxes paying for the Hero union workers?
Or people just getting sick of politics and the rabid partisans going 24/7/365?
Maybe these factors will be dissected. For starters, I imagine "wise academics, journalists" will soon opine that perhaps mobs of special interest groups occupying the State Capital with parking lots full of buses arriving on days the rest of us are working announcing "Chicago Police local 343" and "Ohio Teachers & Municipal Employees AFL-CIO" might be COUNTERPRODUCTIVE!
"Mr. Schultz: a Mr. Soros on line 1."
Sure. There's a frenzy of activity in this.
The democraps were unprepared for November's election.
While in da' House ... the UMPIRE became a man who had a safe seat. (This is also how Nancy grabbed the Speaker's office.) It seems the legislators who come in, new, have to "pledge." They don't get accepted until they strip themselves naked of belief. And, get goodies dispensed by their top guy. Or in Nancy's case, a gal.
Goodies involve placement on "good committees." HO! Maybe, once in a while they'll throw you a real bone. And, you can have your name tossed into some legislative mix.
Karl Rove was the first one to step out and say out loud the Tea Party should go home. (Like into a grave.) He'd supply the tombstone.
Baynor came out and cried. He'd tear up at everything. And, he wore the most gorgeous ties! People also marveled at his orange skin. And, cringed at the waterworks he could produce when standing at the microphone ...
This is your leader.
Vince Lombardy must have given a shout out from his grave.
While, today, at the White House ... someone who has no power at all ... is tasked with reviewing the Internet sites. To accrue a bead on the enemy's mindset.
Obama, if I had to guess, will be instructed that one good way to win votes for his re-election is to CUT pieces of the budget.
It's like his wife pointing to a delicious piece of meat on his plate. And, then forbidding him to eat the fat.
So, take the meat. And, start cutting. What goes?
If Obama cuts STATE, Hillary screams. So, I think that's do-able.
Then, Obama shifts to the military. Here, he is told that will send the right wing flapping so hard, it's gonna come off the bird. The rest of the bird is salvageable. The right, sans feathers, limps.
We're playing politics. YOU don't know what's gonna happen t'marra.
The White House? They want to know. Unlike Mike Gavel ... they will not drop a rock into a pond, just hopeing to see circles.
If you strike one trillion off the budget ... There goes Boehner. He's already fallen out of the tree, and bounced down the cliff. Or you're not paying attention to his drop in popularity. (Which is the political coin of the realm.)
ZOMBIE ECONOMY. Weak on jobs.
Until another bout of political fighting starts. And, all those door bangers earn minimum wage. Ditto for phone bank operators.
Exhaustion sets in on both sides.
The ball doesn't move from the 50-yard line. It's a game for mimes. Vince Lombardy is not complaining that he's dead.
Alex,
Crack wishes he was as talented as Geto Boys.
Shit, talent-wise, I've got them all beat. Scarface is the only one with any talent. I make the other two look like this guy.
I don't even envy their fame and money. I just want my shot. If the solo record I was going to do with Bomb Hip-Hop - who produced a compilation album I was on - had ever come out, my name would already be as well-known as theirs. (I was already in that league,...just intentionally "underground" and away from the limelight.) You really shouldn't joke like that, Alex, because you don't know shit about my career:
I've never been jealous of another artist in my life.
I hear the Dems are trying to get a Republican (Dale Shultz) to flip.
I've never liked that flipping after the fact. If you want to change, resign or wait until the next election. Its not your seat.
Ann, I think your analysis is basically correct, but it's missing one key component: it's not remarkable that a Republican won in a heavily Republican district at a time of the year when people usually aren't used to voting.
Given that reality, it is remarkable that two other districts flipped under those circumstances, especially after the legislature and outside groups have done their damndest to confuse and disenfranchise legitimate voters.
Walker and the legislature rammed through this anti-union garbage against the clear will of the majority of the people. According to many here, that amounted to "tyranny" when Democrats did it with the health care bill. When a Republican does it, it's somehow considered brave. I still haven't seen a good explanation of the difference (other than basic partisan bullshit).
"Walker and the legislature rammed through this anti-union garbage against the clear will of the majority of the people."
And you reached this conclusion how?
@Jim--Your analysis is missing one key component as well: The recall districts were not randomly selected. They were targeted as the places where Republicans were most vulnerable. Also, an unusually-scheduled election strongly favors those who are best able to muster turnout; i.e., organized labor.
So, in knocking off one Republican in a swing district and another whose sordid personal life was revealed during the campaign, the Democrats have fallen well short of anything that can reasonably be claimed to signify anything useful for them.
Well Alpha Liberal engaged in premature ..gloating.
And Houston the Republicans do have a problem-even though they have a majority of one-
didn't Schultz or someone with a name like that vote with the Democrats?
So .....ya. Would be nice to have a greater margin than the one vote.
********
In defense of garage-
I didn't read all of the threads yesterday-but in the one I did see-within minutes he admitted he wasn't that positive and then he made a rather cogent prediction of the outcome-
Here's the replay-
******
garage mahal said...
Come on Wisconsin!!!
Sez Fighting Bob LaFollette (R) in his grave.
8/9/11 1:50 PM
madawaskan said...
Dude are you that sure-it's going to go your way?
8/9/11 1:53 PM
garage mahal said...
No I'm not sure. And less confident than two weeks ago. Dems are playing on GOP turf, and they need to win 3 out of 6. Not easy.
8/9/11 2:02 PM
mariner said...
Chip S.,
It is an ancient union thug,
And he stoppeth one of three.
"By thy long grey beard and purple shirt,
Now wherefore stopp'st thou me?"
That was great!
Thanks for the laugh.
wv: ponsi -- Social Security
8/9/11 2:08 PM
mariner said...
I've never been exit-polled, but if I were my answer would be "none of your damned business!"
8/9/11 2:09 PM
madawaskan said...
garage
Thanks for the specifics-national news is rather distracted right now.
8/9/11 2:12 PM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...
You probably don't need to worry Garage. Like the Democrats, the Republicans ran away from the budget issue. Big mistake for them. It reduced the races to smear campaigns on both sides. That tends to turn off all but the most organized voters.
8/9/11 2:12 PM
Christopher in MA said...
"No, I'm not sure. And less confident than two weeks ago."
So much for trying to channel America's Politico, eh, garage?
8/9/11 2:14 PM
Scott M said...
So much for trying to channel America's Politico
In order to do so accurately, you have to mention "burning" and "in their tanks" at least a couple times a day.
8/9/11 2:19 PM
garage mahal said...
I predict two Dem wins [Shilling King], two GOP wins [Harsdorf Cowles], and two recounts. [Darling/Pasch - Olsen/Clark]
8/9/11 2:19 PM
****
That's not that far off.
Reminds me of the grandiose claims that followed the last, mid term, elections. Total Rejection of ObamaCare! Total Rejection of the Democrats! Tea Party Victory! Instead of off year election, party in power not motivated to vote, haters riled up and so called Tea Party craps out in most of their high profile, media hyped races.
Well, clearly, flesh has been bitten off the unions, because all "re-certification" means ... is that people will be voting to send the dues to the unions.
While if union members say "screw the deductions," there's got to be a union plan to go after these people! The way colleges get kids to sign onto the debt. And, after they graduate they learn what it means that the debt can't be excused in bankruptcy courts.
We haven't seen the end of the devil.
And, Wisconsin remains a TOSS UP state for 2012. Toss up means it's not BLUE. And, those ten electoral college points can end up being owned by the republican candidate.
Close elections ... Are like close games in sports. People don't run to the parking lots in the 7th inning ... thinking they'll get a beat on traffic.
The opposite. People stay riveted in their seats. The vendors sell more popcorn.
For all the money that went in? Sausage came out.
When the green flecks are seen, and it's money. At least it ain't mold.
I have a dream that one day I will write a comment as good as Andrew_X
+infinity
And you reached this conclusion how?
Any number of polls taken in Wisconsin during the debate over the bill. They showed a solid majority of Wisconsin voters were opposed to the bill. Because those Democrats left the state, people were able to read it and understand what it did. They did not like what they saw.
Strange how the same people who chanted "read the bill!" when it came to health care were perfectly fine with this being rammed through as quickly as possible.
Of course, to "pragmatic," dispassionate analysts, these are now nothing more than elections of local interest at best. But it wasn't always so.
I'm about to pull a couple of quotes from an LA Times story that ran on August 6, but before I get to that, just consider that fact that the biggest MSM outlet in SoCal chose to feature a story about some dippy little midwestern elections for the state legislature. I'd say that's a pretty good indicator of national interest in these elections.
Now, on to the article:
Mike McCabe, executive director of the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign, attested to the significance of these elections:
"this is seen as something of a national referendum and there are those who want to influence the 2012 race and establish the proper landscape. It's obvious a lot of outside money is coming in here, as well as outside interests who are not at all interested in the Wisconsin Legislature."
Alberta Darling in particular was a very high-value target:
In the 8th Senate District, where Pasch is challenging Darling, the contest is of keen interest. Darling, a 21-year legislator, is co-chair of the Legislature's budget-writing committee, which imposed severe budget cuts.
And Darling's district is not quite staunchly Republican:
History is no indicator of the district's leanings. Darling narrowly won reelection in 2008, but President Obama carried the district. In April, Republican Justice David Prosser carried the district in a close reelection bid for the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
Last night, Darling rolled to a 54-46 percent victory, and now people like "Pragmatist" are making the rounds to downplay the significance of the outcome.
Bullshit. The national Democrats made this a proxy war. They lost. Deal with it.
Walker&Crew say that unions need to vote for re-certification each&every year, so why not vote to re-certify our politicians every year as well?
Sure, as long as all US Congresscritters, US Senators, and the President and Vice President of the United States are included.
How would Obama do, if he had to be recertified this year?
You're going to have to provide some evidence for your claim, Jim. Otherwise, I call bullshit.
And in fact, Jim, if your claim is true, why didn't we see a 6-0 or 5-1 victory for Democrats yesterday?
I'm sure there was a poll conducted by the SEIU that will corroborate Jim's claim.
Walker and the legislature rammed through this anti-union garbage against the clear will of the majority of the people.
During the Bush v. Gore slugfest in Florida, back in 2000, Democratic operatives frequently insisted that Gore must have won, because it was "the will of the people." If they could have fabricated enough votes to get their man over the top, they'd have justified it because they were serving "the will of the people."
If you're so sure in advance of "the will of the people," why bother with elections, or with respecting their outcomes?
Rumor has it that they had a video ready to post on youtube, Triumph of the Will of the People, in case they won.
Oh dear, was that a Godwin violation?
"I'm sure there was a poll conducted by the SEIU that will corroborate Jim's claim."
Oh, I'm sure there is, but Jim's going to have to do better than that to buttress his claim.
As fun as Wisconsin has been to watch from the outside, I'm glad I don't live there right now. I bet all this political fighting is really tiresome at this point.
If a Walker recall actually happens, I'm not sure if it'd be better for it to happen before the 2012 general election or during. If it was before, the sheer oversaturation of campaigning might drive the state to tighten up the recall laws.
Either way, Wisconsin will likely be one of the most heavily campaigned states for 2012. I can't see Obama getting reelected without Wisconsin, and it's close enough that he'll have to fight hard to get it. If he has a billion dollar checkbook for his campaign, he might end up spending somewhere close to $75-100 million on Wisconsin alone, depending on how the other states play out.
Because those Democrats left the state, people were able to read it and understand what it did.
And there was no other way for ordinary folks in Wisconsin to read the bill?
Of course, if this were sound reasoning, the just concluded recall elections would have gone 6-0 for the Democrats, the "will of the people" being so unanimously opposed to the budget bill and all.
Hence the need for auxiliary conspiracy-theoretic invocations of voter bedazzlement and bamboozlement.
What a load of BS.
Some really dispassionate analysis...
Instead of off year election, party in power not motivated to vote, haters riled up and so called Tea Party craps out in most of their high profile, media hyped races.
Ahh, this explains why the Republicans lost control of the House in 1998 and 2002.
And why the Democrats lost control of the House in 1966 and 1978.
Except that none of those things happened.
Meanwhile, there are 87 new Republicans in the House of Representatives. Many of them replaced Democrats; others replaced establishment Republicans who wisely retired, or got knocked out in the primary.
Facts are not always pragmatic, sorepaw.
"As fun as Wisconsin has been to watch from the outside, I'm glad I don't live there right now. I bet all this political fighting is really tiresome at this point."
Man, is it ever. And there's talk of another round near the end of the year.
"Either way, Wisconsin will likely be one of the most heavily campaigned states for 2012. I can't see Obama getting reelected without Wisconsin, and it's close enough that he'll have to fight hard to get it."
Ya know, it's just possible that a Walker recall election in 2012 might goose Republican participation in the Presidential election. (It's not like the Dems won't show up in full force in any case.) The national Democrat party should think hard about this.
I only want to gloat for a couple of hours.
After that, back to business.
-- Shouting Thomas
Exactly right. This is also why most conservatives are not activists. There is actual work to be done and lives to be lived. The first priority is to our families, friends, and coworkers. The second priority is to our other obligations, including providers of services and products which we consume.
Oh well, such is the price of responsible liberty.
Markos Moulitsas:
I've got to say, I expected to be torn up if we didn't get to three seats. I expected to suffer through yet another bout of electoral depression, bummed at coming up short yet again. And we did come up short!
Short of what? Short of taking the Wisconsin Senate? Sure. That would've been nice.
But let me just say, if tonight was a loss, I hope we have many more such "losses" in 2012.
Reminds me of a certain Howard Dean speech.
All that's missing is the "YEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!"
But let me just say, if tonight was a loss, I hope we have many more such "losses" in 2012.
That meme was all over twitter last night. These guys really do believe in recycling!
@Roger J
but to go off on garage was a major petty--
Sheesh, lighten up man, Althouse didn't "go off" on Garage...she tweaked him rather gently and fondly.
We all had a laugh at his expense, so what? I'd bet from his response that Garage laughed too. He'll return in full force as soon as he figures out a hook...he always does.
I suspect that if Althouse really wanted to school Garage it would leave permanent marks.
That's not her style.
Ya know, it's just possible that a Walker recall election in 2012 might goose Republican participation in the Presidential election. (It's not like the Dems won't show up in full force in any case.) The national Democrat party should think hard about this.
That's going to be interesting to watch. It's clear that state and national liberal campaign interests are committed to fighting it out in Wisconsin. Setting aside all invective, I think their rage is affecting their strategy planning.
Somebody earlier (I forget who) noted that the recalls may have done better if they hadn't been so public. The unions could have quietly ginned internal support and tried to keep conservatives from worrying about it. But they didn't want to just win; they wanted to embarrass Walker on a national scale. That kind of emotional thinking may lead them into a suboptimal strategy.
I had a good hour's gloat this morning then went to work. Help yourselves.
http://tinyurl.com/c4yq3n
Hoop -- "But they didn't want to just win; they wanted to embarrass Walker on a national scale. That kind of emotional thinking may lead them into a suboptimal strategy."
But that's how bullies think. It's in their nature.
Exactly what will they run a recall against Walker on?
RECALL WALKER! HE CREATED TOO MANY JOBS!
RECALL WALKER! HE SAVED TOO MANY TEACHERS' POSITIONS!
RECALL WALKER! HE EMBARRASSED THE AFL-CIO!
What exactly would be their slogan?
@Andrew X: Wrong. And every conservative in America must accept the following: The fight to be "left alone", will NEVER end. Never never never never never never NEVER. NEVER. Because your opponents will NEVER stop. EVER. They will never ever EVER stop trying to "make a better world" on the backs of YOUR earnings, your values, your history, your country. They will NEVER stop. Ever.
Well said. I am so over and done with civility, bipartisanship, decorum, compromise and all that loser bullshit. It is how evil statists prey on the natural modesty and good faith of conservatives and moderates. Never again. These people are no more to be considered American fellow citizens than Joe Stalin. Knock them down, kick their teeth in, again and again and again, until they have capitulated or fled the country. Smash the leviathan government and eviscerate everything the Left has worked for in the last hundred years. They are the enemy of humanity and no actions to crush them should be off the table.
:Walker and the legislature rammed through this anti-union garbage against the clear will of the majority of the people.
Um, Really?
Republican Sheila Harsdorf, once thought to be in danger, beat a teachers’ union official by a 58–42 margin.
In fact, almost 350,000 people voted in Tuesday’s recall elections — and Republicans won 53 percent of the total vote.
Because those facts are not what you said.
But hey, Huge win for the unions!
"If only he hadn't quipped..."
Or if only that rumored babysitter would have come forward.
purplepenguin-
"Walker&Crew say that unions need to vote for re-certification each&every year, so why not vote to re-certify our politicians every year as well?"
Ummm...what does that union re-certification vote cost Wisconsin?
Or if only that rumored babysitter [would have come forward] had existed.
There you go.
Vince "Lombardy" I think Carol Herman may be an alias for Irwin Corey or Norm Crosby. Someone w/ some time should catalogue all the Hermanisms.
If you want to gloat when you lose two recall elections, by all means, go nuts.
The RNC executive must be frantic right now, considering what a nasty omen this is for 2012: NONE of these seats should've turned over. They outspent the opposition by at least two to one, & every seat was red. Anything less than a solid sweep is a defeat for Walker.
Also, keep in mind that the pols who just lost their seats were the old-guard GOP; recalls of the less-popular Tea Party partisans - & of Walker himself - are yet to come next year, & Walker's approval ratings have gone straight down almost since the day he took office.
Unless he's already got everything done that he set out to do, I expect Walker to ramp up his agenda, because (assuming he can read & count) now he knows he only has a year left in which to pass anything whatsoever.
"jim" said,
They [Republicans] outspent the opposition by at least two to one....
Oddly enough, people in Wisconsin who make it their business to track campaign spending don't seem to know this:
...according to the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign... [s]pending through Monday was estimated at about $28 million from outside groups on both sides of the aisle and about $5 million spent by the candidates themselves.
That number was expected to increase by Tuesday. Wisconsin Democracy Campaign officials "estimate at this point it's about even," research director Mike Buelow said of spending on both sides.
The group will do a full accounting of spending after the election and will have a clearer picture of whether the spending totals are even.
It's really impressive that you have campaign finance data that nobody else seems to have. Care to share your secret?
"They outspent the opposition by at least two to one, & every seat was red."
Where do you get this shit? Have you been reading garage's links?
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