John McWhorter and Glenn Loury talk it out. The diavlog begins with McWhorter asserting that birtherism is not about race:
२९ एप्रिल, २०११
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
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६२ टिप्पण्या:
Of course the Clintons were rapacious thieving corrupt so forth and so on. Especially the so forth and so on.
I still think Bill Clinton was a superb president.
Just from my divorced in-laws (let alone friends and family) I feel pretty well exposed to both knee-jerk Bush and Clinton animus.
Which is why I don't take any political partisan's wounded honor seriously.
One more point: Loury has a very short memory.
What is Loury's point about cocaine? Obama was given a pass on his drug use. He was given a harder time on his cigarette smoking for pete's sake. Loury is arguing the exact opposite of the facts.
You don't get the vibes you do from birthers that racists, even closet ones, give you.
And The Blonde has cousins living in KKK country, so I've seen it close up.
This is about his being, in his buddy, Ayers', words, "a radical, Leftist, small 'c' communist".
Henry said...
I still think Bill Clinton was a superb president.
No, Willie was just good at snowing people.
Ah, Nancy Pelosi. The poster woman, all Botoxed up. Going for the racism card, among such nice American folk who came to DC to tell her NOT to pass Obamacare. She didn't listen!
But that's the meme.
And, we've seen Affirmative Action go as high as it could go.
Obama's 17 year old mother wasn't married. But, oh, boy. Did she know how to flaunt paperwork!
As to the bait? Nobody's biting.
But I give Donald Trump credit for showing politicians what it takes to make it in the casino.
Oh, Bill Clinton was NOT a superb president! He wasn't even a good husband. But a dad? (And, it wasn't his sperm, the sperm belonged to Webster Hubbell).
Democraps just love being lied to! There's no accounting for how credits get given out. Unless to succeed you have to be a First Class LIAR.
The current office holder has too many TELLS.
Henry said...
I still think Bill Clinton was a superb president.
Beyond the lying part, what bothered me about Clinton was his unwillingness to expend political capital to do something like reform SS
I really think Obama blew this. I believe the old saying has it, never interrupt your opponent when he's making a mistake. Birthers were making conservatives in general look bad, and face it, the point was moot-- Obama was already president. Now this distraction is laid to rest and Obama's disastrous policies are in high relief. Did he really think this would change anyone's vote? As if, suddenly acceding that he was born in Hawaii, that all birthers would become Democrats?
People we just as insane about Clinton's impeachment.
The only vibe I really get from birthers is blindness to facts.
But there are always people who will try to twist the world to match their warped view of it. Political discourse just magnifies everything.
Not only was it racist to say that Obama should produce his birth certificate- according to many, including Face the Nation anchor Bob Schieffer, it's also racist to say that Obama should release his academic records, to see if he received preferential treatment getting into Harvard Law. No word yet from Schieffer on whether it's racist to wonder if Obama may have received preferential treatment from the Nobel prize committee.
On affirmative action and the President, of course he got it. The time period in which he went to college guarantees it. Does it matter? No, not really. He's the President, he's governed for over 2 years.
Again, the election happened 2 1/2 years ago. Going on about the irrelevant is a sign of failure. It's like Democrats who are still mad about 2000. It's a waste of time.
McWhorter says that it's standard procedure for pols to use anything they can to portray their opposition as separate/different from voters.
And, he says that (in general) racial differences can still be used as a wedge, to the detriment of a minority candidate.
But, he states that the attempts to separate/otherize BHO from voters don't exploit racial biases (racism).
He says that by leveraging bias against Arkansas/South WJC's attackers (grasping for ways to express/vent their irrational, but earnestly/viscerally felt, politically hate) would be susceptible to believing murder accusations against WJC, but it's impossible to believe that the attacks on BHO are related to racism, even though McWhorter says racism does exist, and can be a effective wedge. So, why wouldn't the particular manifestations of the BHO attacks be related to racial bias, if the WJC stuff was related to anti-South bias? Are we to believe that BHO's opponents are too polite to go there, but politeness wasn't enough to prevent WJC's opponents from going to murder accusations. [Comparing accusations: Is racism is a capital crime?]
McWhorter shouldn't have acknowledged that racial biases can work when folks are trying to attack a minority candidate. Or, he shouldn't have simultaneously made the point that pols (and/or their supporters) will use anything against an opponent, as long as it works.
For the record, I don't think racism is the driving force against BHO. But, I think there is some it in the mix. Either that or a bunch of cons are just crazy--which may be a more plausible explanation.
Has nothing to do with skin color! Obama blew an opportunity! Yes, he's too far left!
Maybe, his ace in the hole will be that Americans, by and large, want nothing to do with wars, anymore ON FOREIGN SOIL.
As to the threat posed by Loury, at the end TO John McWhorter ... Well, wouldn't that be a sad day if a Black man, FURIOUS with the outcome of the election, goes and kills McWhorter? What a stupid comment made by Loury!
As if Black people still feel that "excitement" for the man in the White House, unable to make friends even among allies!
By the way, the "racism card? Won't produce riots ... without counter-riots that will be so violent ... Blacks won't be able to sell their qualities anymore.
The birdy that flies the coop is Affirmative Action! That's how Michelle and Barak Obama got all their fancy certificates.
The real curse is to have this incompetency in your classrooms! Where you can't give them the grades they deserve.
It is about race. At least for me it is. Let's face it, had he not been black and a recipient of affirmative action (something that he admitted to the New York Times some years ago), he wouldn't be where he is at. He's not that smart. Has done nothing worthwhile in his lifetime, but constantly be promoted to ever higher positions. Community organizer? What a laugh. Did that section of Chicago benefit at all from his leadership. Did crime go down? Was there job growth? No, in fact things are worse there.
For the record, actual racists are rather open and proud of their racism. That's how you know they are racists. They tell you so.
The only vibe I really get from birthers is blindness to facts.
Isn't that the trademark of every conspiracy theorist? I mean there are loads of people who think Bush personally ordered the destruction of the WTC and nothing will ever change that.
Bush was hated from day one and his core group of haters latched on to every possible theory that would personify him as Satan himself. Obama is no different for his detractors except that he can claim its about race as if somehow being a die hard liberal would somehow be palatable to conservatives if he was just a different color.
Birthers were making conservatives in general look bad
I guess that might hold true if there were any conservatives of note that were birthers.
I've lost a friend because I told him calling Trump a Klansman was over-the-top. I didn't yell it or anything. I was weary, but he wasn't having it.
Or me.
Oh well.
One fewer commie friend is a good thing, I would think.
It's pretty standard for white guys to begin a run for president after being in the Senate for only two years.
So nothing racial going on there.
Tyrone - my argument would be that Obama had no choice but to do something. For three years he's sat on something that was produced in about a week when he had the need. If his people really thought this was ONLY hurting the GOP he wouldn't have done it. What has been gathering behind Trump's outspokenness about the LFBC is a realization among the muddle that Obama's never been vetted. He's headed in to Pauline Kael territory - nobody can figure out how he got to be President because nobody they know will admit voting for him.
'Birther-ism' is a construct of the left aimed at discrediting those that would point out a missing credential of the person currently holding the highest office in the country.
After living through 8 years of hearing how 'illegitimate', etc etc the previous president was, I have this to say; kettle, meet pot.
The left is desperate to discredit ('birther-ism', tea bagger, etc) and silence via use of the word 'racism' and its apparent revised, modern meaning.
So really the lack of a valid birth certificate is a bureaucratic issue.
For example, if you or I showed up at the post office for a new passport, and we do not produce this required document, we know we will be turned away. We know its not good enough to say to the clerk, 'well, you should be satisfied that I say who I am, because I said so'.
But the left disagrees because they are comfortable with their world view that says some people are simply 'more equal' than others. Their world view also includes picking the winners and losers, rather than letting an individual stand on their own merit or lack thereof.
Just a couple more race hustlers plyin' the trade.
It's pretty standard for white guys to begin a run for president after being in the Senate for only two years.
JFK ran for POTUS after 7 years in the Senate.
Goldwater in the Senate 11 years.
Kerry 19 years.
yeah it's really SOP for white guys to run for POTUS after 2 years in the Senate.
FAIL.
The Crack Emcee...You've got to get TMR back up...hurry
I guess that might hold true if there were any conservatives of note that were birthers.
The leading GOP Presidential hopeful is a full blown birther. Does he count?
@garage
"The leading GOP Presidential hopeful is a full blown birther. Does he count?"
Now just wait one darn minute here garage.
First, only HE thinks he is a GOP pres hopeful - maybe.
Second, there are no more 'full blown' birthers - I thought it was established yesterday that they are 'after-birthers'...
So, what the heck???
The leading GOP Presidential hopeful is a full blown birther.
Don't stop believin garage. Hold on to that feelin.
First, only HE thinks he is a GOP pres hopeful - maybe.
The polls show he is the leading hopeful. So that means the base loves this birther stuff.
First, only HE thinks he is a GOP pres hopeful - maybe.
I don't think Trump wants to take the pay cut.
What does a guy with $7 billion net worth do to wile away the hours? Run for President!
garage - you seriously think most conservatives obsess about the birth certificate?
Garage is right. Why is trump doing so well if no one takes him seriously?
@garage
Really, the question about a lacking birth certificate is a bureaucratic issue.
Garage, go to the post office and apply for a passport (leave your birth certificate at home, this is an experiment and won't work if you bring it).
When u get to the part where you are asked for your certificate, just remain silent. Don't say anything.
How'd it go? Still don't have that passport?
Anything happen there that had anything to do with race?
Didn't think so.
Does this guy McWhorter EVER get to the point or is he so taken with himself that droning on and on is some kind of a gift (in his mind) to us lesser beings?
The leading GOP Presidential hopeful is a full blown birther. Does he count?
Not any more. Didn't you hear? Quote:
“I am really honored, frankly, to have played such a big role in hopefully, hopefully, getting rid of this issue. I am really proud, I am really honored”
He's a clown and a jackanape and if you think he believes in half the things he's says you're a fool.
He's a clown and a jackanape and if you think he believes in half the things he's says you're a fool.
I wouldn't vote for this dirtbag. Again though, currently he is leading the field of GOP prez hopefuls. What's that say about GOP voters?
Really, the question about a lacking birth certificate is a bureaucratic issue.
His birth certificate was never "lacking". He produced one in 2008. Remember? The state of Hawaii says he was born there. Jesus H Christ.
Garage is right. Why is trump doing so well if no one takes him seriously?
Well if the only girl in the nightclub looks like Helen Thomas I suppose she'll look good to a certain percentage of the patrons.
@garage
"His birth certificate was never "lacking". He produced one in 2008. Remember?"
No.
Why did the president force all kinds of people to waste their time listening to his crap the other day? To show off his 'new' certificate?
"The state of Hawaii says he was born there. Jesus H Christ."
Jesus Christ (no H) was not born in Hawaii garage.
You lefties are so dense.
His birth certificate was never "lacking".
I agree with garage. Obama always met the legal requirements for the job.
On the other hand, the ability to do the job was and still is, lacking.
Putting it mildly.
Why did the president force all kinds of people to waste their time listening to his crap the other day? To show off his 'new' certificate?
He didn't force anybody to do anything. He can't help there are a lot of stupid people in this country.
"Currently he is leading the field of GOP prez hopefuls."
Sorry to bust your balloon, there, Bagdad Bob, but the latest Fox poll of Republican voters has Trump at fourth place, after Romney, Huckabee and Palin. But keep on truckin'.
What's that say about GOP voters?
That it's spring of 2011.
"'Birther-ism' is a construct of the left aimed at discrediting those that would point out a missing credential of the person currently holding the highest office in the country.
After living through 8 years of hearing how 'illegitimate', etc etc the previous president was, I have this to say; kettle, meet pot.
The left is desperate to discredit ('birther-ism', tea bagger, etc) and silence via use of the word 'racism' and its apparent revised, modern meaning."
I've been watching both Fox and MSNBC (and NBC on Sunday). One fact is glaring; there is a LOT more talk of this topic on MSNBC/NBC than Fox. It's pretty obvious to whom this issue is more important.
"Jesus Christ (no H)"
When I was a kid, my Dad always put the "H" in when he swore.
He could never tell us what it stood for.
@garage
"He didn't force anybody to do anything. He can't help there are a lot of stupid people in this country."
Right. The only poll that matters (an election) was taken at the end of 2008, where 53% of voters lifted the lever for 'hope n change'.
@Original Mike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwYVqMj5i6k
garage said: "The polls show he is the leading hopeful."
The most recent poll has him in 4th place.
I think the guy on the right is wrong that no one brought up Bush's legacy admission to Harvard.
Of course they did.
But Bush didn't RUN on the basis that he went to Yale or Harvard. Bush downplayed his Ivy League experience.
Obama was all about his Ivy League creds. All about.
Which makes his college records more relevant as well.
The guy on the left is right that Obama got as much or more of a pass about the cocaine.
Ah... I disagree that Clinton's low-class background made people more susceptible to the charges he was a hound dog. That people were more willing to believe it.
Tell me a... Kennedy... is a hound dog, and the upper-class, generational wealth, snooty accent thing (as opposed to good-old-boy twang) would have me doubting it.
What criticism can be made that won't be spun as racist?
It's not the criticism... it's the criticizer. It's who is speaking. Now that liberals are being critical of Obama, then it's not racism.
Unless it's Clinton. When Clinton criticizes, then it's racism.
"It's almost as [the Clintons] were the ones who were black."
I stopped there. Wrong planet.
"What's that say about GOP voters?"
Trump is who is getting the media and that ANYONE is better than Obama?
Is it possible to oppose this president and not be a racist?
I thought not.
@DT 2012: Who knew that Bill Cosby and I have the same father?!
MadisonMan: The only vibe I really get from birthers is blindness to facts.
What facts? All they wanted was Obama to release his long form birth cert. Why was it made into such a big deal by Obama?
I think one of the reasons why Bella Abzug was such an obnoxious jerk is because of the fact that, in her heart of hearts, she considered all criticism of herself to be anti-Semitic and/or sexist. If Obama ever played the race card, he would forego an enormous amount of goodwill...Obama claimed that his exotic background gave him insights that were more valuable for foreign relations than study or experience. But that same exotic background makes him seem enigmatic and unknowable. People are right to be a little suspicious of him. His supporters want it both ways: Obama is not like us but must be treated just like us...Also, he-- or anyway his supporters--claim that he is extraordinarily brillant. It seems only fair that he be asked to document that brilliance....Racism is a vibrant force in American life. I would expect some criticism of him to be racially motivated. However, the criticism of him to date, i.e. that he overuses the teleprompter, procastinates in the face of problems, plays too much golf etc., none of these criticisms fit any known stereotype of black people......There is nothing dislikable about Obama, but the plain fact is that his Presidency has not been successful.
"If Obama ever played the race card,.."
I think he did. His supporters did, frequently, but I think that when Obama warned us about what his detractors were *going* to say, in the future, that he didn't look like the presidents on our money, that it was using the race card. The fact is that no one barring an "out" white supremacist was going to do that. No. One. Not ever. But when people objected to being smeared as racists who were going to go after Obama in the future because he didn't look like old white men, that was a "race card".
And he was playing it.
RH: Tony Morrison said Bill was our first Black President. I think Obama's our first Asian one.
" "Jesus Christ (no H)"
When I was a kid, my Dad always put the "H" in when he swore.
He could never tell us what it stood for."
Hebe.
garage mahal said...
"Really, the question about a lacking birth certificate is a bureaucratic issue.
His birth certificate was never "lacking". He produced one in 2008. Remember? The state of Hawaii says he was born there. Jesus H Christ."
Obama is already ineligible by the facts admitted and in attendance. His father was a British Subject, thus Obama was born a British subject, and is not eligible.
If the well known reason for the natural born Citizen requirement was to prevent foreign influence, then how could one born British be eligible? That question is Obama's Kryptonite. NOT ONE of Obama's treason aiding supporters can get around that simple logic, because logic twists the liar into a pretzel, while the truth is untangled, and sets one free.
Hoosier Daddy said...
"His birth certificate was never "lacking".
I agree with garage. Obama always met the legal requirements for the job.
On the other hand, the ability to do the job was and still is, lacking.
Putting it mildly."
No he's not. At BEST he is a naturalized Citizen, naturalized at the age of majority by election of residence by Congressional statute. At worst, he is an illegal alien. The BC must be examined by a controlling authoity, i.e. Congress. A pic on a website is proof of nothing. It is not evidence.
He is certainly not a natural born Citizen--- one who needs no naturalization or statute to be a US Citizen, since they are born to 2 US Citizens on US Soil (or to 1 Unmarried US Citizen mother). What else would they be? Thus the name, Natural BORN.
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