I say "'A Man for All Seasons' is an old-fashioned, stagy movie that is not an interesting piece of film art and does not become so because an old man dies" and tangle with a few readers whose display of dumbness ought to make Roy think again about what level he thinks he's writing on.
Here's a piece in today's NYT explaining the "Man for All Seasons" phenomenon of the 1960s:
“A Man for All Seasons,” which came out in 1966, is a movie of a sort they don’t make anymore: smart, literate and, by today’s standards, a little earnest. Schools organized field trips so that students could be bused to see it, and it earned a huge popular following as well. It won Academy Awards for best director and best picture, and Mr. Scofield picked up the Oscar for best actor. There were also Oscars for best adapted screenplay, best costumes and best cinematography.Highbrow? "Highbrow" has been defined downward. "A Man for All Seasons" and the anglophilic stuff like it was exactly what "middlebrow" originally meant.
“A Man for All Seasons” was so evocative and so good-looking — and such a draw at the box office — that it spawned dozens of imitations. For a while you could hardly go to the movies or turn on highbrow television without seeing people in doublets, hose and ruffs, writing with quills.
Also middlebrow (and pathetically nerdy): insulting people with a quote from a Nathaniel Hawthorne story you read for high school English class.
AND: Thanks to everyone who criticized me for disrespecting a movie I've never seen. I've heard this criticism many times — like back in 2005, when I was taken to task for knowing not to waste my time seeing "King Kong." But this time, thanks to this new wave of criticism, I had the revelation that had evaded me for years. I finally realized what's really going on. How do you know you won't like it if you haven't tried it? It's guys who flip out when they hear that from a woman. It strikes to the very core, doesn't it? How do you know you won't enjoy sleeping with me?
पोस्ट्स
१६६ टिप्पण्या:
I much preferred the Mel Brooks version called a Man for All Seasonings staring Mel as Sir Thomas Morey Amsterdam and Dom Deliuse as Henry the 8 ½.
When you are wrong, you are so very wrong. A Man For All seasons is a great movie.
Methinks you have a hard time dealing with the movie's arguements against what are today leftwing precepts; and endorsement of reactionary concepts like honor and integrity.
I am so glad you are such an authority on films you haven't seen. And so easily belittle those who actually know what they are talking about.
I'd have guessed it was a 1940s Broadway show. Otherwise, I never heard of it.
1969 I think I saw What's New Tiger Lily. Maybe it was 1968. Anyway it was free.
Two distinct societies! Movie goers and non movie goers.
When I was a kid, my mom surprised me for my birthday with two tickets to the movie at a downtown Chicago theater.
Going downtown to the movies was a big deal! My date and I had a grand time. So I loved the movie then and do now too.
Ann Althouse, from the linked comments: Okay, Roy, you've baited me successfully. I'll do a post and point here, but mainly because I think my comments would amuse my readers -- the better class of readers that I have.
If you divide us into classes, I'd have to guess that I'm in the low-rent district - - Baltic Avenue, I guess. *laughs*
I personally only enjoy unibrow entertainment. That Leonid Brezhnev was a comic genius.
Why you venture into unfriendly territory and get into pissing matches with others is beyond my comprehension.
Like I have said before, why do you give a shit what others, who don't know you, say about you?
Focus your energy on more positive things like my hog or something.
Hey girl, we did good when you were away yesterday.
Perhaps if you ever need to take a break Trooper and I can run the place?
Wouldn't that be fabulous?
"Ruffage and Fruits"-I am pretty funny-even when I am not trying to be.
Someone said Ruffage and Fruits sounds like it could be a gay bar in the East Village-that is spot on.
There is this flower shop in Ptown, owned by these outrageous queens. The name of the place is "Consider The Lillies". The name cracks me up. When my friends and I pass the shop we pretend we work there. And if we worked there we would answer the phone, "Consider the Lillies, Steve Speaking, how may I help you"-in a really gay voice. And then precede to laugh our asses off.
Consider the Lillies is a fierce competitor of "Florabunda" which is the other flower shop in town.
"Florabunda Flowers Floyd Speaking, how may I help you"
But Titus, I don't know you.
Highbrow television? I do not seem to remember any high, middle, or whatever brow television back then, except for maybe PBS.
Some people take themselves and their own personal narrow tastes- good or poor- way too seriously.
My kids have seen all sorts of historical movies in school...even Mulan, the Disney feature.
I was around in 1966 and went to a few movies in those days, but that wasn't one. It might have interested me back then. It must have played around campus in the years went I was in college (1969-1973). In those years, we went to see every movie we had any interest in, because we never knew when we'd get another chance and assumed it would only be on TV with commercials messing it up. But "A Man for All Seasons" was the exactly kind of movie we shunned and scoffed at then.
I'm not getting why this is so hard to parse, although I do see two ways in which it could be read (neither of which involve a contradiction of the sort being "charged").
Wait--did I just contradict myself by saying "I'm not getting why this is so hard to parse" and "I do see two ways in which it could be read"?
I love historical movies. My personal favorite is Gore Vidals
Caligula. With a very young and very very very hot Helen Mirren getting her freak on. Ohhhhh Baby!
I love history.
If I wanted to see men in tights, I would have seen Men In Tights!
Yeah, Ann was just letting everyone know that in 1969 she was tragically hip. I wonder if she supported the Vietnam War? Considering how much she loves the Iraq War, I bet she did. After all, just like the Iraq War, there wasn't any chance that she would have to sacrifice anything to prosecute that pointless war either.
Version #1 (the more obvious):
I was around in 1966 and went to a few movies in those days. That wasn't one, though it might have interested me at that time.
[Reference to going off to college in '69 and being in that milieu 'til 73]
In those years, we went to see every movie we had any interest in, because we never knew when we'd get another chance and assumed it would only be on TV with commercials messing it up.
[RIA interjection: The types of movies you probably preferred a) really wouldn't work chopped up for TV and b) in many cases wouldn't have likely been deemed appropriate for TV anyway, at that time. But this puts me onto the path of reading into the text, which isn't necessary for version #1.]
But "A Man for All Seasons" was exactly the kind of movie we shunned and scoffed at during my campus years.
***
I'm not editing you, Althouse, so don't get offended.
I'm spoon-feeding.
Me, I liked and like "Man for all Seasons," by the way, as well as other historical movies. I also like, and liked, the sort of films I am sure you were devouring in your college years (and I assume later).
I don't know, based on the photo the professor posted a few months ago of her college days, she was probably just drinking Boones farm apple wine, smoking a joint and getting laid like most of us did in college. You know, living life and not worrying about the great "issues" of the day. That’s for you nerds.
Also, I'm basically with Titus in terms of what he wrote in the first paragraph of his 10:32 comment.
Freder Frederson said...
...there wasn't any chance that she would have to sacrifice anything to prosecute that pointless war either.
A hat trick of disingenuous statements from a disingenuous person.
Highbrow -- Intelligently discussing the pros and cons of literature, cinema and theater.
Middlebrow -- Criticizing literature, cinema and theater one hasn't been exposed to.
Lowbrow -- Telling people what kind of pants they should wear.
Just stopped by to see if things have changed. No.
Freder: You think Althouse was a Vietnam war supporter back in the day?
It's to laugh, and laughable, even without looking at any specific examples of what she's written about that. But I'll provide a relatively recent one, anyway.
Althouse, recalling how she stood in her parents' kitchen and watched LBJ's speech eschewing a second term:
"I was watching a little black and white TV on the counter and thinking how much I hated that ugly, old man with his ugly, endless war."
Reader Iam is, of course, correct.
BTW, the reason I saw very few movies when I was in high school was that my allowance was $0.50 and it cost $2 to go to the movie theater in my town (Wayne, NJ). In college, it cost $0.50 to see a a double feature at Cinema Guild, which was about 1 block from East Quad, where we hippies lived. So we saw all the old Hollywood movies, all the French New Wave films, everything Bergman and Fellini ever made, etc. We were mainly catching up on on the old decades of films then while we had the chance. We were less likely to see new movie — they were more expensive and generally too square — but I remember that we thought very highly of "McCabe and Mrs. Miller" and some counterculture stuff like "Hi Mom" and "Putney Swope." We liked some science fiction things. For example, we saw "THX-138" when it was a first-run film. A few years later, we turned up our noses at "Star Wars" -- simply refused to see it.
The only historical costume drama I saw during my college years, I think, was "Nicholas and Alexandria," which was also the first movie I ever went to alone. My friends were all out of town -- it was some holiday and I was back early or something -- and I hoped like mad that no one would see me there. I was partly ashamed to be going to the movies alone, and partly ashamed to be seeing a movie like that.
oligonicella said..."Highbrow -- Intelligently discussing the pros and cons of literature, cinema and theater. Middlebrow -- Criticizing literature, cinema and theater one hasn't been exposed to. Lowbrow -- Telling people what kind of pants they should wear."
Actually, the most middlebrow thing is wanting to be highbrow and thinking that "intelligently discussing" only things that seem high class is highbrow. And calling movies "cinema." Seriously, Oligonicella, if you think you are above, say, Trooper York or Titus, you are a poor struggling middlebrow. In shorts.
I interpreted Ann's original statement to be: "My friends and I thought we were too cool for school in 1966 and would rather have run to see 'Blow Up.' 'A Man For All Seasons' was the kind of movie your parents would have seen. But then later when I saw it, I liked it."
Of course, I could be projecting here. I was 12 in 1966 and saw "A Man For All Seasons" on a school field trip. This caused the girls in my class to be bored silly and spend the whole movie sneaking looks at Tiger Beat whenever the theater wasn't too dark to read.
In my college years, I was in a summer theater company that did "A Man For All Seasons." We interpreted Cromwell, Richard Rich et al to be "Just like the guys from Watergate." In those immediate post-Watergate years, everything was "Just Like Watergate." So we then found the play to be profound and relevant, since in those days, everything had to be profound and relevant.
Me, I have no trouble discerning the difference between 1966 when the movie might have interested you and 1969-1973 when it didn't. It was a clear distinction that you made, and it wasn't even particularly ambigious. So I'm with you on that part. But what I'm not getting is how you can so definitively rubbish a movie you've never seen. The most you could say is that you weren't interested in seeing the movie because it seemed to be an old-fashioned, stagy movie that is not an interesting piece of film art, and based on that impression you were willing to chance missing a masterpiece in favor of wasting a couple of hours of your time on a turkey.
I was watching a little black and white TV on the counter and thinking how much I hated that ugly, old man with his ugly, endless war.
Just goes to show you, older doesn't necessarily mean wiser.
Goldstein: Sorry, kids. We ain't goin' nowhere. We're watching 'The Gift'. Supposedly Katie Holmes shows her titties in this movie.
Harold: Is that all you Jews ever think about? Tits?
Rosenberg: Katie Holmes is a nice, respectable, wholesome girl... and I'm gonna see her boobs.
Goldstein: The things I would eat out of her ass! You have no idea!
Rosenberg: Ugh! That is a completely vulgar statement.
Goldstein: So is, "I wanna bang Britney Spears on the bathroom floor," but it's true.
Rosenberg: TouchÈ.
Goldstein: This movie makes no sense. She's possessed, she's not possessed... that rack had better be stacked. OH! TITS! Those aren't real. Yes, they are!
Kumar: How were Katie Holmes' tits?
Goldstein: You know the Holocaust?
Kumar: Yeah?
Goldstein: Picture the opposite of that!
Kumar: Nice!
(Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle
2004)
To clear up any confusion: I have never seen the movie "A Man for All Seasons."
Painful but true: tits make me forget the holocaust, instantly. Not deny the holocaust. I'm not one of those. Just forget. Is that okay, serious peeps?*
*This is what's known as stream of consciousness posting. But hey, it's Satitay.
To clear up any confusion: I have never seen the movie "A Man for All Seasons."
Yet when you are slammed for panning it on the day of the death of its star (one of the greatest British actors of the 20th Century), you get your panties in a wad.
Go figure.
Here's the picture Trooper York meant.
And actually, there was very little drinking in East Quad. I rarely even had 1 drink in college -- and the drinking age was 18. I don't think I got drunk even once. Drinking is what our parents did. "America Drinks and Goes Home." There weren't that many drugs either, actually. We used to go out for limeade! What was the name of that place where we used to get limeade -- limeade and grilled pecan rolls with ice cream? That was a typical outing after a double feature at Cinema Guild.
Oh, good lord, this notion that you have to see a movie to know it's not the sort of thing that you want to see! That's crazy. It's a crucial life skill to figure out what you don't want to do. A typical male thing too I think. Sort of: How do you know you won't like sleeping with me unless you try it?
You don't have time to see and read and do everything. I am very happy to define myself by the very many things I don't do as well as the few things I select to do. Since all I do is tell you that, what the hell is your problem? And of all the things to defend, "A Man for All Seasons"? Man, you are too square.
Here's the picture...
You look like you did drugs to me. But then, hey, impressions based on the way things look can be deceiving.
Just out of curiosity, Ann, do you have any interest now in seeing the movie, or do you hold firm to your teenage convictions?
Zeb, it wasn't drugs. It was art, music, movies, and an occasional glance at Nixon on TV.
Oh, good lord, this notion that you have to see a movie to know it's not the sort of thing that you want to see!
Of course you can decide not to see a movie based on your preconceived notions of it. Everybody does that. But what you're not permitted to do is to then become a critical reviewer of the movie you chose not to see, which is what you've crossed over into. And I'm just guessing here, but I think that's the source of most of the negativity towards you about this.
There was a production team, Merchant-Ivory, who made a long lucrative career out of middle brow soap operas that they palmed off on American anglophiliacs as important highbrow statements.
Zeb, it wasn't drugs. It was art, music, movies, and an occasional glance at Nixon on TV.
It was a joke, and my lame effort at irony.
Hippie chicks, long brown hair, tight bell bottoms, peasant blouse, henna colored nails, bare feet, sweet soul music on the stereo, incense sticks on the coffee table, Boones Farm apple wine, a couple of spliffs, complaining about those square professors who had a stick up their ass, White Castle take out hamburgers, the million dollar movie on Channel 9, the Three Stooges or Abbott and Costello during the rain delay, Chuck McCann and Buck Rodgers, the new album by this band the Who, and of course, best of all, bar none, no condoms.
I never even heard of the movie A Man For All Seasons, although I am quite a bit younger than most here-I think. Younger and cuter and hornier.
I did see a great movie last night called Gone Baby Gone. It was Ben Affleck's directorial debut and it was fabulous. It takes place in Dorchester, MA and is about an abduction of a little girl. Twist and turns everywhere fellow republicans. I was riveted to the TV. Amy Adams-tour de force. Casey Affleck-obviously talent runs in the family. Morgan Freeman-like you never have seen him before. Ed Harris-diva, I would do him. The movie was a roller coaster of a ride and every time you thought you knew where it was going you were thrown for a loop.
How is everyone today? I am feeling fine. For those of you who wonder why I sometimes end my postings with thank you I will tell you. It is because some of my postings are so personal and courageous. They are intelligent, insightful and raw and opens me up to the world. For that I deserve a thank you and that is why I say thank you.
Thank you.
But what you're not permitted to do is to then become a critical reviewer of the movie you chose not to see
Not permitted by whom, pray tell? Screw that. As my father would say, "Who died and made you God?"
Look, I don't happen to choose to take the same approach Althouse does. I don't pan, or praise, things I haven't read or seen. In fact, one of the things I "select" to do is read, especially, AND watch (at least once) all sorts of things specifically because it's my inclination to dismiss them. But that's me. My choice. It's an important value to me, and to hell with everyone else.
(I am able to determine what I don't want to do, by the way, perfectly well. Even if I end up doing it anyway. It is indeed a crucial life skill, even in the breech.)
Zeb, what the hell do you care how Althouse decides to approach stuff like this? Or how I would? Or anyone else? How the hell does it affect you?
One more thing: Some of the very same types of people (and I don't know if this is true of you, Zeb, or not--important caveat) who go on and on about this kind of thing every time it comes up, who pontificate so snottily and self-righteously, have NO problem proudly dismissing out of hand various books etc. which they've decided, for whatever reason, are politically incorrect or stupid or badly done, just because they're written by people, or types of people, of whom they don't approve.
To that type, I say: Get the hell off your hypocritical high horse.
Zeb: "But what you're not permitted to do is to then become a critical reviewer of the movie you chose not to see, which is what you've crossed over into."
It's not like I'm an MSM film critic! I'm blogging. You know, that is the answer to nearly every criticism of me: I'm blllllooooooogggggggggiiiiiiiingggggggggggg!
Don't you get it?
How in holy hell am I "not permitted to" say how a particular movie I didn't see affected me in a blog that's about how various things affect me? I'm bbblllllloooooggggggiiinnnnggggg!
Frist!
Robin: "Ghoti" is "fish"?
Batman: See here. English phonetics. GH becomes F, as in "tough" or "laugh". O becomes I as in "women". TI becomes SH as in "ration" or the word "nation".
Robin: Holy semantics, Batman. You never cease to amaze me!
Batman: No time for compliments, Robin. We must thwart some criminals. To the Batmobile
(An Egg Grows in Gotham, Batman, Season 2 episode 13)
Hippie chicks, long brown hair, tight bell bottoms, peasant blouse, henna colored nails, bare feet, sweet soul music on the stereo, incense sticks on the coffee table, Boones Farm apple wine, a couple of spliffs, complaining about those square professors who had a stick up their ass, White Castle take out hamburgers, the million dollar movie on Channel 9, the Three Stooges or Abbott and Costello during the rain delay, Chuck McCann and Buck Rodgers, the new album by this band the Who, and of course, best of all, bar none, no condoms
All that except the White Castle hamburgers. San Francisco, you know. Chinese take out. Plus, Lone Ranger reruns at 3am dubbed in Japanese. Nothing funnier than the Lone Ranger saying "Hi Ho Silversan....Dozo!!!." The Japanese Roy was very polite to his horse. Well, it seemed funny at the time :-)
**oops accidentally posted on my husband's sign in. Re-posting as ME!
In my posting I explore deep issues. Hogs, logs and rare dogs. Many others wouldn't venture into this territory because it is dangerous and can open you to attack. But for me it is cathertic.
Everyday we make choices and my choices are to share my hog, pinch an impressive log and look down on others that don't have rare dogs.
I think many here dismiss me as a clown or fool and that it hurts. But I am more than that, much more, fellow republicans.
I also have something deeply personal to share with you today. Sometimes when I pinch a loaf I take my phone in with me and call one of my friends and leave the phone by my ass during loaf pinching and record it on my friends voicemail. This is a true story and is me exposing myself to all of you. Now embrace me and appreciate me for being so honest with you about this relevation.
Thank you.
Cool, Dust Bunny Queen, you were into hippie chicks too!
Well it was college after all, it was a time it was, oh what a time it was.....
But how come the square professors with the stick up their ass got the impossibly beautiful twats,er..pussy,er...girls, hmmm?
When I go to the kinema, I expect a totally thought-provoking tale that I can dissect with my fellow movie-watcher at the wine bar where we go afterwards for some Port and aged goat cheese.
I don't think A Man for all Seasons has enough busty young lasses with ripping bodices in it.
trooper york said: "Hippie chicks, long brown hair.."
How many times do I have to say my hair was red? Here's a color picture of me when I was about 17. For some reason, it's the most popular of all the pictures in my Flickr account.
"... tight bell bottoms, peasant blouse, henna colored nails, bare feet, sweet soul music on the stereo, incense sticks on the coffee table, Boones Farm apple wine, a couple of spliffs, complaining about those square professors who had a stick up their ass..."
Wait. At East Quad, the professors were hippies too. They had us boku-maru-ing during orientation.
"... White Castle take out hamburgers, the million dollar movie on Channel 9, the Three Stooges or Abbott and Costello during the rain delay, Chuck McCann and Buck Rodgers, the new album by this band the Who, and of course, best of all, bar none, no condoms."
That's too New York for me. We were at the University of Michigan. It wasn't 3 Stooges and Abbott and Costello. It was the Marx Brothers and Charlie Chaplin. And we didn't have TVs. If we wanted a hamburger, there was only one place: Krazy Jim's. And it wasn't soul music and The Who then (though in 1966 I was a member of The Who Fan Club). It was, for me at least, The Beatles, The Band, Bob Dylan, Laura Nyro, the Mothers of Invention, Neil Young, and Tyrannosaurus Rex.
As for condoms... well, you know, I may write about sex nearly every day, but I never say one thing about my sex life.
Sometimes when I pinch a loaf I take my phone in with me and call one of my friends and leave the phone by my ass during loaf pinching and record it on my friends voicemail.
I think I read this on postsecret once.
Hello, I just had a very important loaf pinching relevation that I shared and you all are still talking about cinema.
Focus, people focus.
I said I record my shits on my friends answering machines!
Attention, over here, priority posting. Immediate responses needed.
"But how come the square professors with the stick up their ass got the impossibly beautiful twats,er..pussy,er...girls, hmmm?"
Because they mark the tests man, that's why. And it goes on your permanent record man, I kid you not. It's bogus man, real bogus.
Don't bogart that joint man.
Get back in the john, Titus. No, the john, not the John.
OK, now THAT picture DOESN'T make me think of Susan Atkins (thank God). But it does remind, a lot, of one my '60s babysitters, a gal who was a member of a 12-member, all-girl singing ensemble my dad coached at the local high school in Green Castle, Indiana, while he was working was working on the degrees he needed to go off and become a college music professor. She was a peach and a sweetheart with a beautiful voice, and she always smelled faintly of sugar cookies which, given young age at the time, was the best of all possible perfumes.
About 20 years later, her parents contacted my dad asking if he still had any of the pictures and posters he'd made of that group back in those days (my father was, and is, also a photographer). Turns out they, and the girl***, wanted to display them at her funeral, which they were all planning because she had an inoperable brain tumor. He couldn't find one, and it was one of the few times I've ever seen my father mist up. (Ironically, about 10 after that, I found one in MY collection of family artifacts, but hadn't remembered that I had it.)
So this picture makes me a little sad, remembering, but it sure beats thinking about the Manson family.
***I do remember her name, absolutely perfect and fitting, but no point in posting it on the internet.
It's a beautiful picture, Ann. You look lovely.
Hey it's no fair posting Simon's screen saver on the internets. Now everyone will have it.
"It's a beautiful picture"
Thank you reader for the acknowledgement.
Backtracking a bit, I have to say that as many Jews are leg men as ass men. But, on reflection, I have to admit they move on very quickly from subtle leg fondling to the grosser tuchas grab, the tuchas being the obverse, as it were, of the tit, or tits.
T & A: nature's way of making us come back for more punishment.
Backtracking a bit, I have to say that as many Jews are leg men as ass men. But, on reflection, I have to admit they move on very quickly from subtle leg fondling to the grosser tuchas grab, the tuchas being the obverse, as it were, of the tit, or tits.
T & A: nature's way of making us come back for more punishment.
Way too much information Ricpic. Disgusting.
America Drinks and Goes Home.
Was Ann a pothead in college?
Magic 8-Ball says "Signs point to yes"
Call any vegetable; call it by name
Call one today; when you get off the train
Call any vegetable; and the chances are good
That the vegetable will respond to you
Rutabaga, rutabaga, rutabaga, rutabay-y-y-y-y...
Here's a color picture of me when I was about 17
Holy Mia-Farrow-meets-Ann-Margret, Batman!
We were at the University of Michigan.
Wie schade. No place to eat other than the Pretzel Bell, and the Border brothers' bookstore still years in the future. I miss their university press display, and the USGS maps upstairs by Travel and the cookbooks.
Althouse:
You can be wrong.
And you over-react to criticism.
You criticize others easily enough; you should learn to handle some turned back your way.
Ricpic, lest you be misunderstood you have to let everyone know you are a lantzman as we have a lot of sensititive types around here. A simple catch phrase will do it.
Not that there's anything wrong with treyf.
Here is a little zen to get you through the day:
Peace and disorder in the world,
The distinction between
Friend and foe,
Follow upon one another
As illusion begets delusion.
A person of spiritual insight
Will immediately recognize
What is wrong and
Before long be rid
Of such an illusion;
In such a case one’s true
Friend may seem a foe and
One’s implacable foe
May appear a friend.
Enmity and friendship
Have no permanent character;
Both of them are illusions.
"lantzman" is just Yiddish for homie.
Titus' prude pops out again.
Tits? Ass? A handful. That's all a man's asking for. Is that so much? Is that so much?...
"It strikes to the very core, doesn't it? How do you know you won't enjoy sleeping with me?"
Oh I'm sure I would enjoy it. It's just that that open oozing sore on your mouth already has me bolt upright awake and my head hasn't even hit the pillow yet. Whaddaya say we just share a bowl of popcorn, cuddle for a while, and then call it a night?
Ann said..."It strikes to the very core, doesn't it? How do you know you won't enjoy sleeping with me?"
Are you supposed to be asking me (us), or am I(us) supposed to be asking you?
Robin: [looking at Batgirl] You know something, Batman?
Batman: What's that, Robin?
Robin: She looks very pretty when she's asleep.
Batman: I thought you might eventually notice that. That single statement indicates to me the first oncoming thrust of manhood, old chum.
(Robin gets a Woody, Batman TV series Season 3 episode 12)
To all those criticizing Althouse for critiquing things she hasn't tried, I ask-- have you criticized things you haven't tried? If not, hypocrite! How do you know you wouldn't find that to be a superior approach if you tried it? You are criticizing that which you are unfamiliar with!
And if you have, then hypocrite! Cutting on Ann for doing the very things you have done.
I now have to brush out some klingers or dingle berries or whatever you call them out of my rare clumbers asses.
They have long beautiful flowing hair and sometimes when they take a shit little shit balls get caught in their special hair.
It is one of the unpleasant responsibilities of being a owner of a rare clumber.
Ann said..."How do you know you won't enjoy sleeping with me?"
Oh, great, now I'm going to have to take a cold shower.
You know I think that's what Elliott Spitzer wanted to do to Kristen but she wouldn't let him. Small world.
I'm guessing it was college students like Althouse who turned Elliot Gould and Ali McGraw and Warren Beatty into stars.
And they probably watched films like "Midnight Cowboy" "Lenny" "McCabe and Mrs. Miller" and "Diary of A Mad Housewife." Many of them probably saw "Love Story" and wept.
You ain't lived if you haven't been to forty-deuce to see a double feature of Cleopatra Jones and the Casino of Gold and Three the Hard Way. That's entertainment baby.
Joe: "You criticize others easily enough; you should learn to handle some turned back your way."
Oh, I can handle it. You just don't like the way I handle it. I think what you mean to say is that I should "learn" to shut up or give up. Sorry. I un-learned that a while ago.
allens said..."Are you supposed to be asking me (us), or am I(us) supposed to be asking you?"
Italics are alway the other person.
"It is one of the unpleasant responsibilities of being a owner of a rare clumber."
Huh. So much for the conveniences of urban living. Back where I come from, we had people you could hire to do that sort of thing for you. We called them Professional Rare Clumber Ass Combers. They made good livings - drove nice cars, took vacations, sent their kids to college. Oddly enough, none of them owned rare clumbers themselves.
"Italics are alway the other person."
Oh.
How about just the popcorn then?
Meade said.......
"Oh I'm sure I would enjoy it. It's just that that open oozing sore on your mouth already has me bolt upright awake and my head hasn't even hit the pillow yet. Whaddaya say we just share a bowl of popcorn, cuddle for a while, and then call it a night?"
Dude, that's not nice. Oozing sore. That's gonna leave a mark.
What an odd blog Althouse linked to. For example:
"Sometimes people ask me why I don't write about Althouse much any more. I usually shrug it off by saying she hasn't been that interesting lately, but that's just an evasion; the real reason is existential dread. When I encounter one of her synaptic fireworks displays, I begin by wondering how such a thing could possibly exist, and soon proceed to wondering why blogs exist, then why writing does, and finally I am reduced to grim contemplation of the meaninglessness of all existence.
Heavy man.
My, er...deepest film experience was watching Claudia Beyond Belief Delicious Cardinale, in Girl With A Suitcase in a 42nd Street Art House, oh those wonderful old "Art" houses, long before the Disney storm troopers of wholesome destroyed that street of fantasy.
I think what you mean to say is that I should "learn" to shut up or give up.
And you have this knowledge of Joe's thought process, how exactly? This remarks seems more to indicate that you can't handle it, than any toughness on your part.
rcocean said..."And they probably watched films like "Midnight Cowboy" "Lenny" "McCabe and Mrs. Miller" and "Diary of A Mad Housewife." Many of them probably saw "Love Story" and wept."
We scorned "Love Story." Never saw that. Saw "Goodbye, Columbus." Missed "Diary" too, and can't remember why. Perhaps it seemed to be for the older crowd. I avoided "Carnal Knowledge" too.
I'll bet you saw "Groove Tube" though.
Ron and Joe:
Exactly how do you want Althouse to respond? Seriously. Lay it out.
Best double feature ever. Roller Ball and Mandingo. 1975 on the Deuce. A riot in the audience. Cops and everything. Cool.
It's funny how a mention of a man dying got sucked into the vortex so very quickly and generated commentary at two different blogs.
*chuckles softly*
Also, do you have any suggestions for those who are criticizing? Or has their mode been perfected, thus needing no improvement, in your eyes?
Althouse. You Tube "Carnal Knowledge Jack's Big Scene." The best. Evah.
But then it all changed. White suits with black shirts and platform shoes. Disco balls. White powders of a strange and unfamilar type. Girls with tight spandex dresses and fuck me heels. Teased hair. Gelled hair. Porno guy mustaches. Gold chains. Open shirts. The Bee Gee’s. Dago Red and White Russians. More that a woman...more that a woman to me...
Exactly how do you want Althouse to respond? Seriously. Lay it out.
Ok, for starters, watch the film if your going to object to it. Respond to it openly; hey, maybe you'll like it, which might make for a more interesting post, than "didn't see it, not gonna." Isn't it odd for someone who constantly criticizes people for lack of careful reading to not even see the thing she's objecting to?
Along the same lines, I just don't know how you can attack people who HAVE seen it and have a different opinion about it! It doesn't mean they're right, just that you're views don't amount to much by comparison.
In the other post, I didn't find Althouse willing to talk to the person who would not play along with her supercilious tone all that ennobling. Such an approach in classroom may be acceptable, but in a blog thread?
Althouse would not accept the same tone she has just used on others applied to her by someone whose knowledge of a subject area is greater than her own, and rightly so. I think people only ask for the same treatment.
Thats... More than a woman...sorry I was lost for a moment there....
My absolute favorite part in the comments section over there is when one guy asks if it's so hard to understand that someone's views might shift between early high school and college--and another guy says yes.
(!?!)
You missed "Love Story"? How sad. You missed lines like this:
Oliver Barrett IV: What can you say about a twenty-five-year-old girl who died? That she was beautiful and brilliant? That she loved Mozart and Bach, the Beatles, and me?
Sure it can change...you can go from Neil Young and Southern Comfort....to the KC and Sunshine Band and sea breezes. Jeeeez everybody knows that.
"Love means never having to say you're sorry."
Which is, of course, 180 degrees wrong.
Porno guy mustaches. Gold chains. Open shirts.
Burt Reynolds, who dated the much older Dinah Shore at that time.
Chick drinks with creme d'everything. Drinks with funny names, e.g. Sloe Comfortable Screw.
The Hustle, The Bus Stop.
Ron, this--along with his post title, "It gnaws me! It gnaws me!"--was Roy's reponse:
"The quote in the post title is from "Egotism, or: The Bosom Serpent" by Nathaniel Hawthorne. Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to drink this bottle of whatever this is in front of me.
Do you actually consider that to be "criticism"? At least of the type which deserves serious response?
It seems more like insult-by-innuendo to me.
Joe said. "... You criticize others easily enough; you should learn to handle some turned back your way."
Do you think he meant Althouse should have thoughtfully and soberly addressed the specific points raised in Roy's post? (What were those, again, by the way?)
Do you think he meant Althouse should say, "Oh, you're right. I should approach my decisions the way you do. I must go rent AMFAS right away. Thank you for calling me an egotist and implying I'm a drunk. I appreciate the criticism."?
Or do you think he meant "Ignore it. You deserved it, anyway."? (In other words, shut up and sit down.)
I mean, really, Ron. Do you actually think Roy's blogpost, and the comments attached to it, are examples of "constructive personal criticism," which is--at least by lights--the only kind which might deserve thoughtful engagement?
You generally strike me as a reasonable commenter. I'm having a hard time understanding your reaction to all of this, given Roy's original post.
Trooper York said...
You ain't lived if you haven't been to forty-deuce to see a double feature of Cleopatra Jones and the Casino of Gold and Three the Hard Way. That's entertainment baby.
Sweet Sweetback's Bad Ass Song. That was a flick.
Son of Sam. Girls with brown hair not wanting to park on Shore Road anymore. Reggie and Billy and Thurman and George. A new club down the Bowery with all initials in the name. Crazy new bands that the chicks were into. The heads were talking? WTF. Line up the shots and beers at the pub before the show. Get em lubricated before the crazy music man. Don't wear your white suit down there man. Go undercover, jeans and your t-shirt so they can see you ain't a narc.
How do you know about something you haven't seen... Easy. By reading about it in greater depth than you're capable of analyzing by sitting there being spoon fed. I didn't see Fahrenheit 911 because I didn't care to contribute to Moore's wealth while exposing myself to wretch inducing propaganda, and yet I'm capable of discussing the film scene for scene and pointing out every single deceit therein beginning with the switcheroo in scene 1. To an extent you/they lack the patience to endure. That's how.
NYT:
* Smart and literate no longer made. (NYT crosswords has been dumbed down too, along with Jeopardy!)
*Schools bussed kids to see it (Students also were treated to An Inconvenient Truth upwards to 3 times, without the need for any bussing about.)
*Won Academy Awards (How Green Was my Valley beat out Citizen Kane and The Maltese Falcon, Return of the King beat Mystic River, Titanic beat Good Will Hunting, Forest Gump beat Pulp Fiction, etc. etc. etc. and so on and so forth, and on and on, and all the rest.)
*Good box office draw (But wait! We're told the opinion of hoi-polloi doesn't count for anything, no fair switching terms)
*Widely imitated (So what. So is Star Wars)
*categorized and lauded as highbrow (There. That's all that NYT cares about)
Now, tell us exactly why the movie is great, not why other people think the movie is great. Regis has ruined me, for they have exposed me to what's going on up there, argumentum ad numerum, argumentum ad populum, argumentum ad authoritatum, dicto simpliciter among others, and how to contrive names for fallacies all on my own like argumentum conbibo meus baculum.
Having said all that, this actually does sound like a rather good film. I'll look for it to see for myself what all the fuss is about. They say the actor who recently died was really good in this one particular thing, on stage and in the film. I liked the filmd they ran recently with Katharine Hepburn about Eleanor of Aquataine, Lion in Winter or something. Also really liked the BBC series about the six main squeezes of Henry VIII, half of whom he killed. Also, the one about his daughter, the one he didn't much care for, who was that again?, of yeah, Elizabeth I, fantastic setting and costumes, although, you already know how it all turns out.
Sheese Frederson,
Unlike you, some of us matured and moved on. View points change. No sane, normal, intelligent person holds the same views for thirty or forty years.
As to criticism- There are things called taste, choice, and discernment. Because one does not like or enjoy the same things you do gives you no right to slam them. Just because they pan something they would not like in the first place means they are human- they make choices.
You really should get out of that little bubble you live in and grow the eff up!
reader: I don't like Roy's original post nor his commenters. But I'm wincing more at Ann's behavior than theirs; why bother baiting such people? I'll admit I've wound up thrashing in the muck when I should leave well enough alone, and at times I've apologized to Ann for my behavior in a thread, because if you can't elevate the discussion -- or at least go for some schtick, which is my bete noir -- than I would prefer to say nothing. But then this is the Althouse blog, not the Wittgenstein blog, and I buy the package by weight, not by volume no matter how much has setted in shipment...
how to contrive names for fallacies all on my own like argumentum conbibo meus baculum.
Does that mean you hate Scott Bakula? I liked him in Enterprise.
Ron,
1. I responded (over there) because a commenter said that my 2 sentences were inconsistent (in a context where everyone was acting like I was the dumb one). I wanted to let her know she was mistaken. One thing led to another, and I thought it was amusing enough to post here, esp. since Roy didn't seem to believe it was really me.
2. People are missing the fact that I am self-deprecating about the attitude we took about movies and a lot of things back during college. I'm not saying I'm better than you because I avoided movies like that. I'm only saying that's the way it was. I'm recording the way I and other people thought about a few things 40 years ago. To me that's worth blogging. It's pretty obvious that the point of this blog is not to take a superior attitude about film or whatever. It is to express my point of view. And that's that.
'A Man for All Seasons' is an old-fashioned, stagy movie that is not an interesting piece of film art and does not become so because an old man dies.
I suppose you reject film versions of Lear and Macbeth on the same grounds. And of course you wouldn't want to see them live, either, since on stage they'd be even stagier.
Highbrow? "Highbrow" has been defined downward. "A Man for All Seasons" and the anglophilic stuff like it was exactly what "middlebrow" originally meant.
Not of that era, I have gotten a ton of 60s movies for family entertainment or boredom. "A Man for All Seasons" was even boring to my son and myself, both avid Euro history buffs. The above quote is correct. Middlebrow touted as high class, plodding movie.
Colleges were still somehow inducing student peer pressure to see Bergman and Fellini movies in the 80s, as well as the great Japanese ones of the 50s and 60s. all that stuff, BTW, was booked well in advance..
I do know that some of the middlebrow stuff induced me to read more so being in London and hitting the big historical places was an even bigger WOW!! - because I had read much.
And I hated Shakespeare until the 1968 middlebrow version made it come alive for me and opened up a way for me to better visualize his craft.
Anyways, my favorite 60s Brit movies were "Tom Jones, Sands of the Kalihari, Dr. Zhivago, Lawrence of Arabia, Alfie, 2001, Darling".
People are missing the fact that I am self-deprecating about the attitude we took about movies and a lot of things back during college. I'm not saying I'm better than you because I avoided movies like that. I'm only saying that's the way it was. I'm recording the way I and other people thought about a few things 40 years ago. ...
HEY! What d'ya know! That's my Version #2! (See 10:54 a.m. and 11:11 a.m. [the path of reading into the text])
Tee hee.
Ann at 12:58: I never say one thing about my sex life.
Ann at 2:10: I avoided carnal knowledge too.
Yet another inconsistency.
Trooper York said...
Girls with tight spandex dresses and fuck me heels...
Correction:
Chase me, catch me, fuck me heels.
"... But I'm wincing more at Ann's behavior than theirs; why bother baiting such people?"
I see no evidence she "baited" anyone. She basically defended herself (and made some witty comments) and launched a a reasonable counter-attack on one or two points.
Her comments also raise the question, how nice do you have to be to someone who's both stupid and truculent?
fellow republicans, I hate to let you know this but Althouse and I are engaged.
All of your sexual fantasies regarding Althouse or more importantly me are futile.
Althouse is now the proud step mom of two very valuable rare clumbers. The rare clumbers will be carrying Althouse's wedding train in their mouths.
We both still hope you continue to patronize our website.
Thank you.
I love Midnight Cowboy. I didn't see it when it came out. I saw it last year.
I purchased the soundtrack on itunes and absolutely love it.
I love the party scene and music during the party scene. It seems like a totally foreign world to me.
Didn't Liza Minnelli try that? As I recall that didn't work out so good.
As to criticism- There are things called taste, choice, and discernment. Because one does not like or enjoy the same things you do gives you no right to slam them.
I think you are confusing me with Ann. And I am sure neither one of us appreciates that.
Elephant's Memory is the name of the group that sang that song from Midnight Cowboy that I just love.
Very true Trooper but the difference is that David Guest is disgusting and I am hot.
Titus....
We both still hope you continue to patronize our website.
Ah, a little premature aren't you?
Freder Frederson said...
I think you are confusing me with Ann. And I am sure neither one of us appreciates that.
Beleive me, I would never insult AA by confusing her with the likes of you. You are to narrow minded to appreciate anything.
I see no evidence she "baited" anyone. She basically defended herself (and made some witty comments) and launched a a reasonable counter-attack on one or two points.
It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many Althouse sycophants on this site who actually find her witty. My God, you people are troglodytes if you think she is the 21st century's answer to Dorothy Parker. (and I bet you have to google both "troglodyte" and Dorothy Parker.)
No doubt Titus, that's why you are Boss Hog of Hazzard County. Let me know where you guy's are registered. Crystal candlesticks?
"(and I bet you have to google both "troglodyke" and Dorothy Parker.)"
That's pretty mean Freder. Everyone knows that "troglodykes" are gay cave women and Dorothy Parker is Spiderman's aunt.
My God, Freder, sometimes I think your sense of humor runs the gamut from A to B.
Speaking of Dorothy Parker, this one's for you, Titus:
Brevity is the soul of lingerie.
However, one of my favorite, if not my favorite, Parker quote is:
"The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."
Althouse and I will be consummating our marriage by vlog.
It will be part performance art, part real consummation and part comedy.
There will be a surcharge though for our fellow republicans.
Finally you will be able to honor and respect my hog...as well see Althouse's tits.
I love this thread...
Titus, that's quite a picture. Did you know that I saw Elephant's Memory play in some roadhouse type place in New Jersey in 1969? I'd forgotten that until just now. I also saw Rhinoceros that year.
Not the Ionesco play. That was too stagy for me. The rock band.
Are you sure you didn't see rhymnosisaurus or perhaps hip-hopipotimus?
"It will be part performance art, part real consummation and part comedy"
That's three part's Titus, don't you need Governor McGreevey's driver for that?
how nice do you have to be to someone who's both stupid and truculent?
Who said anything about being nice? But if you lie down with dogs...
Ann, thanks for the clarification about you filmic approach.
My favorite Parker line is to the drunken young man who stuck his head under her dress: "Snort twice if you find truffles."
Ann, thanks for the clarification about you filmic approach.
My Chico Marx spell checker failed to write "your" for "you."
I finally realized what's really going on. How do you know you won't like it if you haven't tried it? It's guys who flip out when they hear that from a woman. It strikes to the very core, doesn't it? How do you know you won't enjoy sleeping with me?
Wow.
First as, has already been said, the problem is not that you won't watch it, it's:
A) That you insist on judging it without having seen it.
B) You are such a snob about your unwillingness to give it a try.
And yes, the above does apply to both movies and men.
When I go to the library, I am completely open-minded: I just pick-up the first book I come to and read it from cover to cover.
Anything else would be unforgivable snobbishness. It seems.
You are such a snob about your unwillingness to give it a try.
Personally, as this applies to men, I have never regretted not sleeping with a man I was snobby enough to be unwilling to "give it a try" with.
On the other hand, I must say that I do have a regret or two about a couple of my more open-minded moments ... .
"You are such a snob about your unwillingness to give it a try."
That's what they all say: She's stuck up! What a snob! Conceited! Prove you're not. With me!
Hey you're all grown up now. College days are over. Member of the firm. Suits from Brook Brothers. Drinks at Harry's of Hanover Square. Down at Fluties on Pier 17 where Jennifer Levin is a waitress. Oh shit that's the girl in the news. Damn man. Waddaya know. Hanging outside the North Star Pub and getting the Foster Oil Cans from the big wash tub with ice. Chatting up the secretaries in the street as you drink beers. Putting your tie and her bra on the ceiling at Jeremy’s Ale house. Sloppy Louie’s. Sloppy groping in the parking lot of the Fulton Fish Market. Hey let's hit the Doll House or the Pussycat lounge. What they got this new thing, the inter-what. Sounds cool. It'll never catch on. Why are all the young babes dressing like this Madonna girl…. We're going to party…. Karamu, fiesta, forever…. Come on and sing along! …..All night long! (All night)
"Personally, as this applies to men, I have never regretted not sleeping with a man I was snobby enough to be unwilling to "give it a try" with.
On the other hand, I must say that I do have a regret or two about a couple of my more open-minded moments ... ."
Boy, you sure talk about yourself alot reader_iam. It's not all about you.
Ann: "That's what they all say: She's stuck up! What a snob! Conceited! Prove you're not. With me!"
What self-respecting guy would want a woman who would fall for lame lines like those? All of us, actually. But we would feel bad about ourselves in the morning.
I was kind of underwhelmed by A Man for All Seasons. Scofield was really good, and there were some good speeches and ideas, but most of the other actors seemed a little on the hammy side. The play was probably better, I'm guessing.
Freder Frederson said...
My God, you people are troglodytes if you think she is the 21st century's answer to Dorothy Parker.
You are nothing more than an alimentary canal with a loud voice at one end and no sense at the other.
Funny. Vortex.
I took Ann's description of what they didn't see to be knowingly hyper-pretentious. More than a little self-mockery for our past (and present) selves is a good thing.
"Oh, we couldn't see that! That's Squaresville, man!" You can almost see them ambling back to The Mystery Machine as they and their talking Great Dane head out to investigate strange goings on at the old Withers' mill.
I didn't perceive it at all as a comment on the movie.
As a casual observer, however, I have noticed this: Althouse will say something relatively non-controversial, and someone else will read a volume of outrage into it, and this is akin to waving a red cape and yelling "Toro".
I love this thread...
Titus, that's quite a picture. Did you know that I saw Elephant's Memory play in some roadhouse type place in New Jersey in 1969? I'd forgotten that until just now. I also saw Rhinoceros that year.
That's pretty cool.
After Althouse and my wedding we are going to ask that you respect the privacy of the rare clumbers similar to the media's respect of the Bush twins and Chelsea Clinton.
No stories about one of the rare clumbers sniffing the ass of a affenpinscher in Central Park or another rare clumber humping a bichon frise in Washington Square.
As with all famous people we want the rare clumbers to have as normal life as possible with as little interference from roaming eyes.
We thank you for respecting our wishes.
Dorothy Parker,who's she? Wait, didn't she and her sister invent monopoly? BTW, I consider Althouse kinda of a 21st century Anita Loos with a legal degree.
She gets too hungry, for dinner at eight
She loves the theater, but doesn't come late
She never bothers, with movies she'd hate
Thats why the lady is a tramp
I don't see it as The Lady is a Tramp. Rather:
Ms. Althouse regrets she's unable to blog tonight, Madam
Ms. Althouse regrets she's unable to blog tonight
She and Titus are vlogging nude
Tell me what is Simon now going to do, Madam
Ms. Althouse regrets she's unable to blog tonight.
I don't get the Dorothy Parker analogies. Ann is not quipping here; she seems to be expressing herself as any normally intelligent person would.
No aphorisms here, nothing to see, move along.
Vortex, baby, vortex.
That's what they all say: She's stuck up! What a snob! Conceited! Prove you're not. With me!
Uh. Women do this, too. If you're not interested, they suggest you aren't a real man, or perhaps that you're a homosexual, or perhaps that you have a small dick, or perhaps that "she's too much woman for you to handle". And if you point out that presuming you know someone would be no good is arrogant and condescending (not to mention irrational, given how often women fall for false signals about cock size, sexual prowess, and fidelity), then you're just a typical man who can't take no for an answer. The fact is, many women are conceited and stuck-up and they do think "their pussies are made of gold". They are explicitly trading away the damn thing, and guys are complaining the price is too high. You want to make a goddamn sale, woman, lower your price. If a lot of potential customers are telling you that, it's time maybe to mark down your product.
Oh, dear me.
My respect and admiration know no bounds for you Ann, but to say you "don't like" a movie you've never seen, well, that's anti-intellectualism at it's best.
It reminds me of what liberals used to say about Ronald Reagan--they had never tried, never considered, never "saw the movie" when it came to limiting the reach of government, getting government out of the day to day affairs of people, cutting taxes and whatnot. Well, we showed them the movie, we gave them the experience, and it was magical.
This is how conservatism wins--we experience, we "view" things, we assemble our opinions based on experience.
It is frankly dumb and superstitious to go into a discussion about something without having seen it or experienced it. This is what wooly headed liberals who are afraid of their own stink would do.
How sad, how very sad.
I can understand not wanting to see a movie because it is of a general type that one wouldn't want to see. I don't see Judd Apatow movies or chick flicks for that reason. That having been said, I think there's a big difference between eschewing a film on general principle and criticizing it individually on its merits when one hasn't seen it. And I really don't see any reasonable basis for making this a "typical male" type of argument. Still, this seems like a lot of pixels being spent over what would in real life by minor barside chatter.
I've never seen A Man for All Seasons. I guess the anti-clericist and nationalist in me rebels against a movie in which Thomas More, a priestly traitor to his king, is a hero. I did like Anne of the Thousand Days and The Lion in Winter, however. Ann, did you like those films, or are all late-60s medieval/Renaissance historical dramas verboten?
but to say you "don't like" a movie you've never seen, well, that's anti-intellectualism at it's best.
I'm not so sure. I didn't need to sit through Farenheit 9-11 to criticize it.
Anne of the Thousand Days and The Lion in Winter
I avoided them.
"I avoided them."
You missed two good ones. Lion in Winter has wonderfully crisp and witty dialogue, as well as a young Anthony Hopkins as a bisexual sociopathic prince, and Anne of the Thousand Days has great staging and costumes, as well as a raging Richard Burton at his drunken lothario best. Get thee to the DVD shop.
Have to agree. Lion in Winter was excellent.
...but I would enjoy sleeping with you. As I said in the Ann Coulter post, older blondes are My Type, to the extent that I have such a thing.
I haven't seen any of the Tyler Perry movies. I know they are as lame ass as could possibly be. I never saw Porky's, or Dumb and Dumber. I know they're bad and I pity those who think they're great. Yup, I could be grievously in error...but it's not that important. After a certain age you really need to edit down the things you see or read that just aren't going to be worthwhile. If you're wrong, you're wrong. But probably you're right.
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