I'm reading "Illeana Douglas Looks Back on Hollywood’s Biggest 'Cat Fight'/After publishing a book about the 1939 classic 'The Women,' the actress and writer talks about her film career and her role in #MeToo" — by Maureen Dowd, in the NYT.
७ नोव्हेंबर, २०२६
"She said she follows the Elaine May rule, that there’s no point trying to disarm men who think you’re scary-smart by trying to be likable."
"(That’s where Hillary Clinton went wrong in her debate with a lurking Donald Trump; as she recently acknowledged, she should have just turned around and said, 'Back up, you creep!') 'You wrap yourself up like a pretzel trying to please people and navigate and then you can’t take it anymore,' [Illeana] Douglas said. 'It’s better to just be unlikable from the get-go.’... [W]hat is her advice for young women trying to make it in Hollywood? 'I think they should be a bitch right off the bat,' she said. 'You don’t have to be mean. You don’t have to say, "Your hair is receding" or anything like that. But I think that being very strong and very direct always works better.'"
I'm reading "Illeana Douglas Looks Back on Hollywood’s Biggest 'Cat Fight'/After publishing a book about the 1939 classic 'The Women,' the actress and writer talks about her film career and her role in #MeToo" — by Maureen Dowd, in the NYT.
I'm reading "Illeana Douglas Looks Back on Hollywood’s Biggest 'Cat Fight'/After publishing a book about the 1939 classic 'The Women,' the actress and writer talks about her film career and her role in #MeToo" — by Maureen Dowd, in the NYT.
पोस्ट्स
५३ टिप्पण्या:
It wasn't Trump who said, "You're likable enough, Hillary."
I wondered what I disliked about Hilary. Turns out she was too nice. "We came. We saw. He died."
Sure Illeanna, great career advice for budding actresses. Never do it the way you did: getting your big break from Director Martin Scorcese, and becoming his "girlfriend."
Hilary tried to be likable?
Hillary just wanted to smile, bake cookies, and be POTUS. Damn that Trump!
The reason Hillary didn't say: "Back off creep" is everyone would've thought she'd gone nuts. The vast majority of people didn't even notice Trump supposedly "getting too close".
This advice assumes a fact not in evidence. Hillary Clinton is not "scary smart". Her first bar examination was the DC bar exam. If your breath can fog a mirror, you can pass that bar exam--and Hillary flunked it.
Later in life Hillary examined a lot of bars. That's why she's the Chardonnay Countess of Chappaqua.
"From 1989 until 1997, Douglas was in a relationship with director Martin Scorsese. On May 16, 1998, she married producer and writer Jonathan Axelrod, the stepson of producer George Axelrod; they divorced in 2001."
So girls, be a bitch. But not to men who can promote you and get you gigs.
The Russian secret service responsible for Hillary wimping out. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Elaine May must be a real asshole. Hey i need a reason to be nice. Especially if they're intimidated by my "super-smarts".
Is my recollection incorrect? Because I recall Hillary deliberately walking in front of Trump, and him not moving from where he had been standing.
Success in politics has a lot to do with likeability.
On the other hand, the unlikeable Dick Nixon was able to send Illeana's kinswoman Helen Gahagan Douglas packing, so maybe there's something to be said for dogged unlikability. Also, something to be said for nepotism and networking, Illeana didn't make it on her looks (if she did make it).
“Hillary Clinton is not "scary smart".”
At one point she was listed as “one of the 100 best young lawyers in America. One crusty old Arkansas legal eagle countered that in his estimation she wasn’t even one of the 100 best lawyers in Little Rock.
Is Hillary claiming Trump was creeping to grab her Ass/Pussy
I don't think May was encouraging women to be unlikable. It was more that she was saying don't turn yourself into a pretzel trying to please people.
A recent development is women, often BIPoC women, who are convinced that they are being held down by mediocre White men, when they have never faced the possibility that they might be mediocre or unqualified themselves.
I want to make a small comment about "cat fight."
My dog, Blue, is 120 pounds. Big dog, massive dog. I'm not a gun guy. (I'm a 2nd Amendment guy, but not a gun guy). I did not get Blue for security, either. I'm a big guy. I usually don't need security. I rarely find myself scared of people. What I have to deal with are people (women) who are scared of me. Especially women with little dogs. Because my dog, Blue, does not like little dogs.
In my last apartment complex, the Mexican family that lived right over me had two tiny little dogs. And they hated Blue. And Blue hated them. And the Mexican and I thought this was hilarious.
"Why do they hate each other?"
"I don't know."
One day, one of the little dogs got away from the Mexican. I was like, oh shit. And I just froze. I was scared Blue was going to kill this dog. Which would be easy. 10 pound dog vs 120 pound dog. And I would feel guilt for the rest of my life. Possibly a lawsuit. Or even a criminal charge. Who knows the shit that will happen to you in your life? God and nobody else.
Anyway, this little Mexican hater dog ran up to Blue, screaming like he was a suicide mission. And Blue put her paw on his head and kept him in place. And my Mexican buddy ran up.
"I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry!"
"Not a problem," I said.
"Why do they hate each other?"
"Who knows?"
Anyway, Blue is constantly accused of being a man dog. People throw around that wrong pronoun all the time. "He is so scary."
"She's actually a girl."
If Blue were human, she would be like Gal Gadot. Blue is gorgeous. Or maybe she would be some scary MMA warrior girl. Anybody runs up to me, Blue jams her nose into her crotch. And sniffs. That's how she ID's the criminal threats. So far, all humans love Blue, pretty much. It's the damn little dogs that hate her guts. And the little dog owners glare at me, like I did this.
You're probably wondering, why is this dog story on the Maureen Dowd thread? Well, "cat fight." But also, the sexual confusion. Everybody assumes Blue is a man. You really can't tell much of a difference with dogs. I have no idea, until I check out their sexual equipment. Otherwise? Dogs are a uni-sex party.
Hillary has the charms of Lady Melissa in the Warner Brothers classic "Scarlet Pumpernickel" (1950)
I don't think Trump's problem with Hillary is that he thought she was scary smart. I don't remember Trump walking behind her, but perhaps he did. The debate where I remember one candidate walking behind the other was Gore behind Bush and Bush handled that with humor that I think helped him a lot.
"her role in #MeToo" I assume that means she slept her way into roles. What other role is there?
Hillary could have Vince Fostered him.
Smart in context, or arrogant for show?
Back in the day I was a graduate student and I was dating a woman working on her Ph.D in chemistry. Her dissertation topic was related to the chemistry of radioactive elements. This was the early 1970s and women were cautioned to hide their intelligence so as not to frighten off boyfriends, but she let slip that her grad course in nuclear physics was an easy A, as were her grad courses in quantum mechanics. At that point I knew I HAD to marry her if ever she would take leave of her senses long enough to accept my proposal. Fifty-second anniversary is coming up
Not every man is frightened of an intelligent woman. Ask Meade.
Actors gotta act, don’t they?
" 'That’s where Hillary Clinton went wrong in her debate with a lurking Donald Trump; as she recently acknowledged, she should have just turned around and said, 'Back up, you creep!' "
Sure. Let the real Hillary come out. That would work? No.
I remember Al Gore closing in on George W. Bush on a debate stage and W. giving him a funny WTF look he probably learned in Texas.
Here's one of Buzz Patterson's stories:
"On a Clinton official state visit to Mexico City, we were finally done with the events and were heading back to DC. Everybody was excited to get home. Our itinerary was to move from the hotel to the airport on Marine One and then onto Air Force One for the flight home. I was with the president and First Lady on Marine One, the lead helicopter in a formation that included staff and press.
After we lifted off and were halfway to the airport, Hillary suddenly blurted out, “Turn around! Put this back on the ground! I left my sunglasses in the limo!” The Secret Service guys and I exchanged side glances and rolled eyes. I hopped to, of course. I chatted with the pilots and the Secret Service. It wasn’t safe to turn around.
Marine One was almost to the join-up point with AF One at the airport. AF-1 was ready to go, and the press plane was as well. These trips were logistical challenges. Back at the hotel landing zone, the Secret Service, the White House Communications Agency, and administration staff were pulling down communications lines, lifting barricades, and driving off in vehicles. The required support for even a helicopter flight was highly involved and extensive, and there was no landing zone security left. The secure launch site no longer existed.
At this point, it wasn’t a good idea to turn around. I approached her, “Ma’am, we can’t do that. We can’t safely do that.” Hillary responded, “I need my sunglasses, god****it! We need to go back!”
Then one of the onboard Secret Service agents chimed in, “Yes, ma’am, the milaide is correct. That wouldn’t be wise.” I suggested that I radio back, ask the staffers to locate the sunglasses, and ask one of the White House valets to bring them home on their flight. She calmed down and acquiesced, but not without smoldering disdain in her eyes. Security be damned, those were her sunglasses! Bill just shrugged and went back to reading his book. The valets and staffers still at the hotel went to work and located the sunglasses in the Clintons’ hotel room. They were safely returned to Hillary the next day.
I’ve been shot at in combat by guys who wanted to kill me. I think at that moment, she did too. Trips without Hillary were akin to Animal House, a frat party. Trips with her always had a Nazi-like edge. Hard to tell which was worse. I preferred the frat parties.
That was Hillary Clinton. And, I have no doubt, it still is.'
Back in 1970 my sophomore year at PSU I continued my love playing basketball in the evening. Rec Hall was always packed. The girls gym, White Hall, was right next to my dorm. It was normally empty so a group of guys started playing there. That was until the girls found out. From that point forward we had to have a girl playing us.
I would go over early and there was a cute as a button girl playing by herself. We played one on one several times. Started dating. Found out she was a grad student and also Jewish. Wealthy family. Me, a middle class Gentile. Things were going great.
She went home to Chicago one weekend and upon return refused to talk to me. That ended that.
Hillary is one of those women who as girls did well enough in school by outworking the many people smarter than her, it’s fine in high school, but at some point you are going to be swimming with the sharks, and there she was weighed, measured, and found wanting.
"It’s better to just be unlikable from the get-go."
Harrigan Hil's got that one down pat.
Now if would-be Hollywood ingenues follow that advice, they won't even be invited to the casting couch.
Hillary is very smart. The problem with her is she has no heart. And she has to pretend to be human. That's what is really difficult for her. She has to practice being human and nice in a mirror.
Sarah Palin was not very smart. But I definitely would have voted for her. The sexiness of Sarah back then made me not so smart. And so it goes.
The "looming and threatening" gambit was something George W. Bush used against Al Gore years before. How valid was it in 2000 or in 2016? It can be construed as a sign that one is weak, cowardly, and complaining,
People who have a reputation for being "whipsmart" are often only just glib. They have a ready answer for everything, but how good is their reasoning ability? "The West Wing" was based on the Clinton White House: lots of people walking fast, talking fast, and catching the allusions others make, without necessarily being competent.
Hillary Clinton is not smart. She failed the Bar Exam.
Douglas lost me with the mention of the Pantsuited Pantload Clinton.
LOL!
Another Hollywood whore regrets being a whore now that she is cast aside.
Hillary was a mediocre piece of shit person. A hero to the average democrat harem girl.
We have lost 50 years because we propped up mediocre average women and told them they were special. We created professorships and DEI manager positions and government jobs and HR department bullshit make work sinecures for women who should have been having kids and raising them.
Now we have a bunch of run through childless harem girls who write dumb articles in the NYTs about how bad men are and how they should be meaner.
Jaq said...
Hillary is one of those women who as girls did well enough in school by outworking the many people smarter than her, it’s fine in high school, but at some point you are going to be swimming with the sharks, and there she was weighed, measured, and found wanting.
Hillary married a man with political talent.
She watched while bill philandered with and raped women. He helped with the cleanup and harassed the women Bill raped and had the temerity to complain about it later.
She was a perfect democrat harem girl who served as the feminist hero for women like Ann.
But the stupid women that vote for democrats complain about Trump.
If Trump had done anything close to what Bill Clinton did Trump would be in jail now.
The cause of Feminism was always hollow and amoral.
So this lady wrote a book about an old movie, and this rates an interview with Maureen Dowd, as if Maureen needed to interview someone to get expertise and insight on bitchiness, or #MeToo.
And Hillary isn't especially smart, she just has a very well-developed and particularly ruthless sense of ambition and self-importance.
Gambit? What in the world.
In 2000, Gore, weirdly, got up from his chair while bush was answering a question near HIS chair, and stood about 3 feet from Bush and glared at him. Bush then humorously said "How ya doing?" and went back to talking. Even Gore smiled.
How is that a "gambit"? In any case, all Trump did was walk behind Queen Hillary when she was bouncing around the stage - 6 feet away. People only made a fuss about it AFTER the debate.
Look, Hillary is one of the most charmless person to ever run for POTUS. That's because she was the dragon lady at the White House, then was given a safe senate seat, and then was given the Secretary of State job. Harris was probably even worse in terms of unlikability, but Harris did actually win stuff in California on her own. WIth, some help from willie brown. Hillary was handed everything. So she never had to get elected against tough opposition. And when she faced Obama and Trump - she lost.
I read the article. It was kind of interesting if you're interested in old movies. I'm more interested in reading about them than actually watching them. I did see The Women way back when on The Late Show or wherever. Norma Shearer was the wife of the studio boss. She feuded with Joan Crawford. Joan Crawford was the gritty prolearian, both in the movie and in real life. Reading the article, I got the impression that both Maureen Dowd and Ileana Douglas would like to root for Joan, but, sadly that's impossible.......So far as Me, Too goes, doesn't marrying the studio boss and then getting a bunch of plum roles sort of metooish. Maureen and Ileana don't explore this interesting issue. Norma Shearer is fading into obscurity, and Joan Crawford has achieved lasting fame, although probably not in the way she hoped.......Ileana can claim credit for ousting a network president. She claims he tried to kiss her. I guess that will go down as her big contribution to the entertainment industry..
Came by to say Elaine May was not a bitch.
Improvisational comedy with Mike Nichols in the 50s.
Directed A New Leaf, the Heartbreak Kid, and, unfortunately, Ishtar. Long career and still around at 94.
The only evidence that I have that Hillary is smart is that people keep saying it, so it must be true.
HRC was a National Merit Scholarship finalist in 1965. Reportedly these finalists are in the top 1/2% of High School students across the nation.
HRC was a National Merit Scholarship finalist in 1965. Reportedly these finalists are in the top 1/2% of High School students across the nation.
Me too!
pinch her ass, pinch her ass
We're smart, Hillary!
she reports me to the principal and I never make it to college
I might have just been a semi-finalist
That is a harsh lighting for that photograph. They're making her intentionally ugly. Weird choice.
Imagine if Donald Trump said, "I am very strong and very direct."
Illeana Douglas in, Hitler's Sister
Hitler 2: Feminazi
We Will Decide Who the Nazis Are
"The brain is a very over-rated organ."
I would like to delete my "very" at 4:25 and downgrade her intelligence to just regular smart.
Big Mike said...
“Hillary Clinton is not "scary smart".”
At one point she was listed as “one of the 100 best young lawyers in America. One crusty old Arkansas legal eagle countered that in his estimation she wasn’t even one of the 100 best lawyers in Little Rock.
11/7/26, 3:29 PM
She was "helping" women even back then????
"Yeah, she laughed and laughed when she got 41-year-old Thomas Alfred Taylor to walk free.
She managed to get a plea bargain for a man accused of raping a 12-year-old girl - and shockingly laughs as she indicated she knew he may have been guilty."
https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-2658801/I-never-trusted-polygraph-Hillary-Clinton-LAUGHS-recalls-helped-suspected-child-rapist-walk-free-prosecution-lost-crucial-evidence.html
If one accepts the Hillary debate anecdote as told by her; its not really that favorable. Note this is not 'recently acknowledged' The story comes from her 2017 'What Happened' book.
“It was one of those moments where you wish you could hit pause and ask everyone watching, ‘Well, what would you do?’”
Do you stay calm, keep smiling and carry on as if he weren’t repeatedly invading your space? Or do you turn, look him in the eye and say loudly and clearly, ‘Back up you creep, get away from me. I know you love to intimidate women, but you can’t intimidate me, so back up.’”
But she did none of those things. This is Hillary's most predictable behavior: re writing the past so that she is the heroine. I would have liked to see herdemonstrate how a strong woman puts a bully in his place-- it would have given a indication of how she would have managed Putin/Xi/Kim etc.
But the core re-writing was not her imagined brave and stunning stand. The re-writing was that Trump ever invaded here space to begin with. Hillary agreed to the debate format which said the candidates would not be tied to the podium, but instead could move and interact as normal humans do. THAT was the failure, she just can't behave like a non-robot.
I remember Hillary’s laughable quote after she invaded Libya, “ we came, we saw, he died!” She is a conquering hero of Caesarian proportions who slays her enemies, a true national merit finalist.
Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States.
And that is the best conclusion to reach whenever her name arises in print, in public discourse, or any other notice given to her, forever.
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