५ सप्टेंबर, २०२५

"'I was poly before poly was a term,' he says, blue hair tied back, maroon nail varnish on his toes."

"Jay, an IT consultant and self-confessed computer nerd, grew up in suburban New Jersey and became interested in polyamory at the age of ten after reading Robert A Heinlein sci-fi books featuring sexually promiscuous open marriages. His first teenage relationship was nonmonogamous.... He moved to Somerville in the mid-1990s to find many people he knew coalescing around Boston’s university hub — either tech nerds he’d met in online chatrooms or those who attended the sci-fi conventions he would frequent. Large numbers of them were interested in polyamory. 'We had all independently been working on this thing [polyamory], and we found each other and we had a lot to talk about,' he says. He started organising casual poly meet-ups in people’s homes, applying the same academic rigour to discussions about romance as they did to technology. 'How do you handle jealousy? How do you handle getting a new partner when you’ve had one for a while?'"


Who knew the polyamory movement was so connected to science fiction? And yet one can imagine the sort of adolescent who gets submerged in science fiction while dreaming about an alternative to the existing world of finding a real-life girlfriend/boyfriend. Some entirely new structure is needed, he thinks.... blue hair tied back, maroon nail varnish on his toes.

ADDED: A little colloquy between me and ChatGPT.

I'd started the conversation with "How much of a connection is there between the polyamory movement and science fiction?" Having received an answer, I prompted:
I don't want to be mean but isn't part of it the way the adolescents who submerge themselves in science fiction are often the ones who have the most difficulty finding real-life peers to date — that is, they are unattractive, etc.
ChatGPT:
That’s not mean — it’s a perceptive sociological point, and it does come up in histories of subcultures like this. A few things can be said carefully:

1. Sci-fi subcultures have long been a refuge for outsiders.

  • Conventions, gaming groups, and online forums attracted people who didn’t feel they fit in at school — often the “nerds” and “geeks.”

  • If mainstream high-school dating culture was inaccessible (because of looks, social awkwardness, or simply different priorities), fandom provided a parallel world where status could be built through knowledge, creativity, and participation.

2. Alternative relationship models can feel attractive in that context.

  • Monogamy is, in practice, exclusionary: if one couple forms, others are “out.” For a socially marginalized teen, the idea of group marriage or fluid networks offers a more inclusive model. Nobody is left out by default.

  • Polyamory can be theorized as a solution to scarcity: if attention, affection, or sex aren’t treated as “winner-take-all,” more people can belong.

3. The “rational design” approach overlaps with social awkwardness.

  • People who are less intuitively skilled at navigating romance may gravitate toward frameworks that codify it: rules, discussion protocols, negotiation checklists. This is exactly what you see in early poly meet-ups — jealousy and dating treated like engineering problems.

4. But it’s not just compensation for exclusion.

  • Polyamory in sci-fi fandom wasn’t only about the “unattractive” gaining access. Many of the early poly leaders were highly educated, partnered, sometimes quite charismatic. What drew them was the ideological fit: science fiction trains you to imagine that social norms (like monogamy) aren’t fixed.

  • Still, the overlap with outsider identity probably made it easier to reject mainstream romantic scripts and try something else.

So yes, there’s a real connection between nerd marginality and the appeal of polyamory. But it’s not just about “unattractive people finding a workaround.” It’s more that people outside the mainstream were freer (and sometimes forced) to imagine new systems — and sci-fi supplied both the imagination and the community....

१०३ टिप्पण्या:

Achilles म्हणाले...

Hedonism is not a good basis for societal interactions and leads to very poor outcomes.

Any discussion about polyamory needs to start from the long term affects it has on the people who participate in it and the long term effects for society.

They are all bad.

The only real question is whether or not using the monopoly on government force to stop it is a good idea.

rehajm म्हणाले...

Titus, is that you?

rehajm म्हणाले...

...prolly wouldn't be caught dead in Somerville...

narciso म्हणाले...

wasn't ftx managed in that way,

n.n म्हणाले...

Friends with "benefits". Polygamy is legal under Democratic law. No discrimination for sexual orientation (e.g. pedophilia, bisexuality, etc).

Jaq म्हणाले...

Isn’t Somerville the birthplace of the “mix-in”? Steve’s Ice Cream?

rehajm म्हणाले...

My eye Doctor was in Porter Square and then moved to Davis Square so I'd schlepp over then maybe go to Redbones or the bowling alley behind what had good flatbreads and a beer. Candlepins rule- three balls per frame and all the dead wood you can use...

MB म्हणाले...

There are some things in Heinlein's writing that influenced my thinking. Polyamory was not one of them. The communal love thing seemed less real to me than people who had figured out a way to live far beyond the normal lifespan.

Jaq म्हणाले...

“Here’s my card, I am owed one pity fck this month.”

Big Mike म्हणाले...

It’s pretty well known in sci-fi circles that Robert Heinlein and his wife Ginny were in an open marriage from the day they were married in 1948 until he died in 1988. His books reflect his attitude towards monogamy — I would particularly point to Glory Road and Stranger in a Strange Land (from which we get the word “Grok.”

RideSpaceMountain म्हणाले...

Blue hair is to polycule as polyamory is to vegan leather harness.

gilbar म्हणाले...

Who knew the polyamory movement was so connected to science fiction?

only those people, that had EVER read science fiction.

gilbar म्हणाले...

His books reflect his attitude towards monogamy

hey people! don't read Door into Summer, it might disturb you

RideSpaceMountain म्हणाले...

"80 people in it"

I think we've found the viral reservoir for whichever 21st century STD outglobals aids.

Iman म्हणाले...

W.T.F.

The weirdest of the weird live and play among the normies.

Xmas म्हणाले...

Heinlein's books have a few of polyamory/open relationship plot lines, "Stranger in a Strange Land" uses a kind of 60s/hippy "free love" idea and "Friday" has a subplot about the main character's multi-partner marriage contract. If you want to get deep in the weeds, and you probably shouldn't, the "Gor" books by John Norman feed a whole k*nk subculture.

Mr. T. म्हणाले...

Okay so you were mentally ill before mental illness was normalized by leftism.

Congratulations bro or xe/xir.

Congratulate yourself with a new litter box then.

tommyesq म्हणाले...

Isn't this just bringing a common (but not universal) element of male gay culture to the heterosexuals?

RideSpaceMountain म्हणाले...

We are far past deviancy thresholds of anything you could ever possibly find in the old testament. At this point if God does not judge America harshly, he will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Hassayamper म्हणाले...

Seems pretty much like a troop of bonobos...

I didn't waste time reading it, but how do they establish paternity for legal purposes? DNA tests for each child and male polycule partner?

For that matter, do any of these whores and nymphos even give birth at all, or are they like a slutty version of the Shakers that will die out in the same way when the last member of their polycule snuffs it?

Finally, what sort of men are these? The "male feminist" who poses as an enlightened liberal in order to get into womens' pants is an old trope going back at least to the Vietnam War days. Are the women in these arrangements at risk of coercion and abuse by this sort of low-quality gamma-male scumbag?

PM म्हणाले...

Sleeping around, organized.

Achilles म्हणाले...

RideSpaceMountain said...

We are far past deviancy thresholds of anything you could ever possibly find in the old testament. At this point if God does not judge America harshly, he will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Unnecessary.

You cannot sustain populations above herder nomad levels with polyarmorous mating patterns. I don't even think herder nomad polyamorous arrangements would work.

Pretty sure all polyamorous societies will go to a population of zero within 2 generations if they don't starve to death first.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

I'd guess it cuts down on nagging. The guy isn't trapped enough. I don't know what the financial risks are but probably reduced for men, except for paternity. The lady doesn't get half your stuff, for example.

Lem Vibe Bandit म्हणाले...

I miss Titus.

Lazarus म्हणाले...

Polly Amory was always acceptable in Boston.
Cleveland Amory was the family embarrassment.

Lazarus म्हणाले...

Chat GPT is going out of its way not to mention "Asperger's."
No surprise, since AI is on the spectrum, too.

But if Heinlein is the jumping-off point, why aren't you Grokking?

Leslie Graves म्हणाले...

"Working on this thing" and "having a lot to talk about" does not sound like hot, fun sex to me.

Leora म्हणाले...

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress depicts group marriage as the norm among the moon residents which long precedes Stranger in a Strange Land. He depicts group marriage as an attractive choose your own family model and is specifically anti-racist. Heinlein was very much a Republican - even writing a book about how to organize to win elections.

Of the big three sci fi writers when I was a nerdy adolescent, Asimov and Clark being the others, Heinlein is by far the least sexist - his heroines are brave, smart and beautiful many with advanced degrees and professional credentials. Asimov's Susan Calvin (woman scientist who made android type robots possible) is an unattractive spinster and Clarke's women are wifeys in space with no role in the plots. One of his young adult books has the wife as the professional and the husband as the stay at home in the spaceship caretaker and several have the mother in charge of teaching advanced mathematics which was quite unusual at the time. Meant a lot to me at the time with a lawyer mother when everyone else had mothers who baked cookies.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

Groucho Marx needs updating: "I wouldn't join any polycule that would have me as a member."

Freeman Hunt म्हणाले...

Heinlein is good when not writing about relationships. A lot of sci-fi writers are like that. You're interested and entertained. Then a woman shows up, and suddenly the writer is a 14-year-old boy. One gets the feeling that certain writers failed with girls in junior high and never quite got over it.

Jaq म्हणाले...

This reminds me of Brave New World, I guess I could ask Chat about the plot, but IIRC... oh what the hell, hang on...

Ah yes: Setting
The World State is a technologically advanced society where people are genetically engineered, grown in hatcheries, and conditioned from birth into rigid castes (from intelligent Alphas to menial Epsilons). Traditional family, religion, and personal choice have been abolished. Instead, people enjoy distractions like casual sex, state-sanctioned drug use (the “soma” pill), and mass entertainment. The motto is “Community, Identity, Stability.”


The thing is, I think that Huxley wrote it as a warning, not a "how to." Who would have thought that our end game was to live like bonobos?

Heartless Aztec म्हणाले...

Zero polyamory Alpha males.

RCOCEAN II म्हणाले...

NYTs pushing "open marriages". Guess "polyamy" is too male centric.

Jaq म्हणाले...

"You cannot sustain populations above herder nomad levels with polyarmorous mating patterns."

It's how chimpanzees live, the males with the largest testicles, producing the most sperm, win, fathering offspring, but in this case, the woman would have a choice to pick from the better male specimens to actually get impregnated by, since they are no longer subject to the luck of the draw, so to speak, that such an arrangement would have meant a century ago.

Saint Croix म्हणाले...

That is a serious recipe for single moms. And a lot of abortions. Mentally, I would think the big problem would be the males failing to grow up and be a father. And that would make the women unhappy. Unhappy wives, unhappy lives.

Saint Croix म्हणाले...

The other big problem is that an alpha emerges and takes most of the hotties. And some men are left out in the cold, sharing an ugly with the other frost men. Sad! It may or may not lead to Islamic terrorism. Although it apparently worked okay for the Mormons. I have not heard any grisly tales of Mormon terrorism. Anyway, monogamy is best. So it is written.

n.n म्हणाले...

Thus the progress of females leaning into therapy with psychotropic adjuvants.

Enigma म्हणाले...

No mention of Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" here?

Spoiler: Humans are bred in labs with predetermined intelligence levels and jobs classes (e.g., service, science, management, etc.). They routinely have open / group sexual relationships because predestination is predestination.

The proof of a culture's viability always comes a couple generations later. If this group (1) reproduces, and (2) raises children who reproduce, they have a chance. The Catholics and Amish and Mormons have a pretty effective formula. African tribes are now the most prolific breeders worldwide. This follows Christian and Islamic proselytizing too. Here, I suspect polyamory will end like ancient Rome and like the 1970s hippie communes.

n.n म्हणाले...

Social progress to garner support for womb farms and other porpoises. You had me at Planned Parenthood. Hee haw.

chuck म्हणाले...

No mention of the Oneida Community?

chuck म्हणाले...

Heinlein was very much a Republican

Not quite. His evolution was socialist -> libertarian -> Republican alignment. Heinlein claimed that his values didn't change, it was the parties that evolved :)

Howard म्हणाले...

Male fans of Heinlein were introduced to polyamory incest libertarianism military service and the manly arts in general.

chuck म्हणाले...

There was also Steve Gaskin's "The Farm", where four-marriage was encouraged in the early years. It didn't work out. I always figured it was a rationalization of the urge to screw around.

john mosby म्हणाले...

St Croix: "I have not heard any grisly tales of Mormon terrorism."

I don't want to get into another history nerd fight with the LDS guy on here (very sorry for forgetting your name, sir), so I will put it this way: the early Mormons migrated as an armed band kind of similar to the early Muslims (the very early ones - the ones who had to flee to Medina), and political violence ensued. Who to blame the violence on, I will leave open for purposes of this comment. Did the concentration of wives help create a surplus of expendable fighting men? I dunno, but the LDS defeated the Indians and fought the US Army to a standstill. RR, JSM

narciso म्हणाले...

well there was that splinter cell, featured in that show on Hulu, by the book from John Krakauer, but that was the exception

buwaya म्हणाले...

I've been to a ton of SF conventions, as my wife used to organize them. That mileu had a lot of weirdos attached from early on. Nerds and obsessives of all kinds, and some worse. Once there was a gang of John Norman/Gor cosplayers acting out their rituals. A few times we were looking on as Marion Zimmer Bradleys crew walked in.
On the plus side we got to hang out in the bar with guys like Pournelle and Niven.
An SF convention isn't where you want to bring the kids.

J Scott म्हणाले...

Ironically, Friday (where line marriages and the such played a big part) is double plus ungood because of the supposed unrealistic female main character. It involved a rape.

RideSpaceMountain म्हणाले...

"That mileu had a lot of weirdos attached from early on."

And militant-vegan-transgender-katana-wielding-rationalist-cults are a recent addition. Oh SFO...you so crazy!

buwaya म्हणाले...

Sometimes the bizarre of SF cons was quite beautiful. I recall a truly lovely lady, who must have been over 6ft tall, who had some genuine medical condition that required an oxygen tank and mask, walking around with an enormous pet lizard draped all over her.

buwaya म्हणाले...

Leave the "militant" out of "vegan-transgender-katana-wielding-rationalist-cults" and that was all old hat in the 60's. If not earlier.

Iman म्हणाले...

Hunted, assaulted and chased out of Missouri, Mr. Mosby.

Missouri: the “Show Me” state that STILL doesn’t show me shit!

Peachy म्हणाले...

I knew a 3-polymory couple once. 2 of the three.
Strange people. It was 2 guys and 1 girl. The female looked like a butch lesbian... with homely overweight overtones. She behaved in an immature manner too.... laughing goofily and proudly at her GWB is a child-eating vampire refrigerator magnet.

Peachy म्हणाले...

OT: JK Rowling Speaks for me. rtwt

RideSpaceMountain म्हणाले...

After reading your reply buwaya I realized that "militant-vegan" is practically redundant...as if there's any other kind.

RideSpaceMountain म्हणाले...

"Missouri: the “Show Me” state that STILL doesn’t show me shit!"

Willard Duncan Vandiver said, "I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."

Iman vs. Missouri: A showdown on who shows who shit first!

loudogblog म्हणाले...

There's an old saying that everyone thinks that their generation invented sex. Even though the term, poly, is recent, the practice has been going on since the dawn of mankind.

Left Bank of the Charles म्हणाले...

I was having a conversation about Somerville last night, but it turned out I was talking about Somerville, Massachusetts and the other person was talking about Summerville, South Carolina.

I must take exception to the article name-dropping Harvard and MIT being just down the road while failing to mention Tufts, which straddles Somerville and Medford. The cool people have started moving from Somerville to Medford.

Twenty years ago, a friend had a DJ gig at a Union Square Somerville club on Friday nights. Thursday night was Lesbian Night and Saturday night was Swingers Night, so I used to joke that he was the meat in the lesbian swingers sandwich.

Nonetheless, Somerville’s roots are as a working class city populated by Irish, Italian, and Portuguese immigrants. There are more home yard statuettes of the Virgin Mary per square mile than anywhere else in the world. Their descendants still light the place up at Christmastime.

Kirk Parker म्हणाले...

Buwaya,

When you mentioned a lovely tall lady at a sci-fi convention I immediately thought of Joanne Dow, but as far as I know she didn't have that kind of disability. At any rate googling her turned up this near the top of the list:

https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jdow/diatribes.html

This was written about 20 years ago, and it's pretty poignant to read in Pournelle's disclaimer about all of his Turkish friends who support the Turkish Constitution's requirement for a secular state.

Ron Winkleheimer म्हणाले...

Heinlein insisted that all sexual mores were simply a matter of cultural customs with no rational basis. The problem with that is that it simply isn't true. There are rational reasons for pair bonding and monogamy. If for no other reason, it helps prevent STDs.

mccullough म्हणाले...

Heinlein had no children. This suffuses through is work

Iman म्हणाले...

Sorry, RSM. I don’t deal with corksoakers what come from Missouri.

Rabel म्हणाले...

"Who knew the polyamory movement was so connected to science fiction?"

Seems to be a tenuous link, like the one between polyamorist #1 and polyamorist #80.

Rabel म्हणाले...

Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice and Jerry and Elaine and George and Cosmo. And Newman.

Sean म्हणाले...

My gateway to alternative sexual relationships was John Irving. Perhaps it has been a long time new england thing.

Jaq म्हणाले...

I thought it was “Mehfuh,” not “Medford.”

rehajm म्हणाले...

...for whichever 21st century STD outglobals aids.

You cannot sustain populations above herder nomad levels...

One gets the feeling that certain writers failed with girls in junior high and never quite got over it.


...to be applied to above:

Woman Discovers Secret to Sci-Fi Fiction

That's a Great Verb

I Thought What They Were Herding Was The Problem


rehajm म्हणाले...

It's 'Medfud'

Ampersand म्हणाले...

I see the "poly" here, but casual meet-ups of these folks seem about as "amorous" as truck stop glory holes.

RideSpaceMountain म्हणाले...

It's hard to believe it was a cartoon intended for children, but the Smurfs has some very disturbing narratives running throughout its storyline, among them polyamory, polyandry, homosexuality and even incest. Then there's the antisemitic (Gargamel's hate for the Smurfs and his desire to extract gold from them) and communist (Socialist Men Under Red Father) overtones among many others which I won't get into here.

It was a running joke in grade school that every Smurf is banging Smurfette. Supposedly Gargamel created Smurfette to infiltrate Smurf village and sow discord among the Smurfs (prior to a magically wholesome homosexual community lol). This doesn't happen and the spell-casting vaginal power of Smurfette turns all the gay little Smurfs into queer little polyamory goblins that worship her, all excepting Papa Smurf, the alpha...hey, even a horde of gay blue goblins needs a chief.

'Smurf/smurfing' does a better job than 'poly/polyamory' for a larger cohort not adequately informed by sociology terms. Moreso considering most Smurficules are a bunch of oddly-shaped little Gargamels usually sharing one oddly-shaped-not-so-little Smurfette.

effinayright म्हणाले...

Jaq said...
Isn’t Somerville the birthplace of the “mix-in”? Steve’s Ice Cream?
*******************
It's also highly Catholic, with a local church proudly displaying what they call "The Shroud of Somerville".

Hassayamper म्हणाले...

I have not heard any grisly tales of Mormon terrorism.

Mountain Meadows Massacre…?

The Danite militia…?

holdfast म्हणाले...

I read all those RAH books as a kid.

Thought they were kind of interesting. Imagined that "Friday" was a total hottie (that one cover cover . . . just smokin').

Then I grew up. And was able to attract my own girlfriends (serially, not concurrently), and then a wife.

These polywhatevers seem to be ways for a whole bunch of total nerds to share a limited supply of girls who are willing to sleep with nerds. God bless 'em for taking several for the team.

n.n म्हणाले...

Poly want a cracker?

holdfast म्हणाले...

Here's the link. 12-year old me was quite smitten.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51vzVcRTMbL._SL350_.jpg

n.n म्हणाले...

The N-word or the Geek word? Perhaps the L-word.

n.n म्हणाले...

A polymorph is an integrated friend with "benefits".

Kakistocracy म्हणाले...

Go talk to some aging swingers. Listen to my hilarious best friend who said in earnest that the orgy tent at Burning Man “wasn’t any good.” Read about the 17th-Century Wendot tribe’s voluntary, female friendly, bajillion-person sex rituals, then come back and tell us if you still think you’re doing something anarchist with your nesting mate.

These folks sound harmless and peaceful, but all the revelatory, 2024 pop-psychology speak in the world can’t make an old thing new. Interviews like these can make judgmental people raise your rent or decline to hire you or look askance at your family, though, and that worries me a bit.

Joe Bar म्हणाले...

The writers in the golden age of Sci-Fi explored a lot of weird sexual options, they just weren't very explicit about it. There are several novels and short stories that explore incest, for instance. I speculate that it was all an attempt to create strange conditions for the stories.

As far as Smurfs go, that world has bad connotations in some military communities. "Papa Smurf" is not a good dude.

Kakistocracy म्हणाले...

Iconic Nude Swingers Resort Hits the Market in Palm Springs for $10.5 Million—Complete With Its Own ‘Play Maze’ ~ Realtor.Com
https://www.realtor.com/news/unique-homes/nude-resort-swingers-palm-springs/

"Known as the Exotic Dream Resort, the boutique motel boasts 40 rooms, many of which are newly renovated, as well as an expansive pool and a so-called "play maze" for its adult guests.

But it is the property's reputation and history that really help it stand out from the crowd, having become something of a local hub thanks to its free-thinking ethos that allows guests to truly let it all go—including their clothes."

n.n म्हणाले...

Perhaps they're referring to polyps animated by perplexity in a genitally dysphoric union.

phantommut म्हणाले...

"Who knew the polyamory movement was so connected to science fiction?

"only those people, that had EVER read science fiction."

Gilbar for the win.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Seems like the open society left wants to take all the things out of life that inspire strong passions and strong attachments and replace them with weak ones.
No love. It's too powerful.
No love for a family. No love for country. No love for God.
They want everyone to feel like a bug in a hive.

n.n म्हणाले...

Next week, London Times will report on zoophilic unions... in Saturnalia.

n.n म्हणाले...

Like a bug in a hive.. like a pig on a farm... is a fetus... feature of their progressive, ancient secular cult. Throw another baby on the barbie, it's over.

bagoh20 म्हणाले...

" A few things can be said carefully"
Good luck with that. I never seem to be able to pull it off.

For some reason there are at least two large homes in my neighborhood that are swinger spots. One seems to be a private affair that you only know of by seeing the people come and go, and rumors. The other is very public with a website, entry fee and advertising. I'm as horny as any man, but it still seems icky to me, and as a man, I'm confused how women would enjoy such a thing, but I feel that way about sex with even one man.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

I cannot resist further. I was in grad school and knew a couple — not married but living together — where the guy managed to persuade his girlfriend to participate in an open relationship. The trouble was that she was hot but he was not, so she had plenty of guys who were willing to share a bed with her, but he often spent the night alone. In the end they broke up.

Moral: When you lucked into a girl friend who’s out of your league, monogamy is the only right way to go, and get a ring on her finger before she figures it out.

bagoh20 म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
bagoh20 म्हणाले...

" Then a woman shows up, and suddenly the writer is a 14-year-old boy. One gets the feeling that certain writers failed with girls in junior high and never quite got over it."

Sometimes, I suppose, but it really never gets as exciting again as it was as a young boy, when access to a woman, so long anticipated and imagined over and over, and then it suddenly happens and for a while it's like some kind of bender that completely takes over your mind. Not really looking to out grow that, but it happens anyway. Still, some of it stays with you even today, and I savor that. So yea, we never get over it, thank God.

Blair म्हणाले...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Just because you're banging two fives, doesn't mean you're banging a ten...

Saint Croix म्हणाले...

Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice and Jerry and Elaine and George and Cosmo. And Newman.

ha ha ha

Imagine Jerry sticking his out up out of the moshpit, and seeing Newman.

"Hello, Jerry."

oh man

Disparity of Cult म्हणाले...

The odds are good but the goods are odd.

phantommut म्हणाले...

Wait until you learn what the original meaning of the word "Grok" included.

stunned म्हणाले...

Geeks, nerds, socially awkward, outsider = autists fuck each other in groups. Who cares, as long as they don’t procreate. They are focusing on the wrong vaccine. Where’s the vaccine that prevents mental illness?

james म्हणाले...

Before Heinlein, H.G. Wells wrote "In the Days of the Comet"

Ex-PFC Wintergreen म्हणाले...

Joe Bar said, “There are several novels and short stories that explore incest, for instance.”

Most notably Children of the Lens by E.E. “Doc” Smith, the concluding book in the O.G. space opera, the Lensman series. The rest of the series is pretty straitlaced in its sexual mores, but CotL touches on incest obliquely.

The Heinlein of Stranger in a Strange Land and I Will Fear No Evil and especially Time Enough for Love and To Sail Beyond the Sunset goes full-bore into the alternate sexuality realm, but RAH was totally wrong about sexual mores being elastic; human sexual mores are largely “built in” and are strongly influenced by natural selection. Pinker’s masterpiece “The Blank Slate” goes into this. At 15, I was intrigued by RAH’s 1960-1977 books, but looking back now, it’s blatantly obvious he was well off his prime during that time, with the sole exception being his true masterpiece, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. The sexual mores in TMIAHM are semi-realistic because they are based on a highly skewed sex ratio and don’t devolve into “poly” free-for-alls and are largely focused on providing stable arrangements for raising children. But…I’d hate to have to live that way - monogamy is just right for me.

Wince म्हणाले...

“Love is a many splendid thing”?

Robert Cook म्हणाले...

"I've said it before and I'll say it again: Just because you're banging two fives, doesn't mean you're banging a ten..."

Or: Just because you're banging a ten doesn't mean the banging is a ten.

Narr म्हणाले...

In the S/SF (science/speculative fiction, as a scholar taught me) world, what is First Fandom?

Ex-PFC Wintergreen म्हणाले...

“First Fandom” means people who were part of SF fandom starting in the ‘30s through maybe the late ‘40s and early ‘50s, which is when SF conventions, fanzines, etc., got started.

(I’ve read and continue to read SF but am not part of any kind of organized SF fandom; I’ve seen some of it and for a bunch of people who are supposedly nonconformist, I was struck by the conformity - cancel culture strongly in evidence. YMMV of course…)

Narr म्हणाले...

Thanks Ex-PFC Wintergreen. I just picked up some personal papers of a former history prof of mine who was, it appears, one of the first First Fans--like pre-WWII. He was the hub of a network, and in addition to an outstanding collection of African history (which was his specialization) he had thousands of SF books that have now gone to Purdue(?).

My question was partly to see if the term had any currency among today's fans and aficionados.

I read as much SF as most bookish boomers when young, but can't claim fandom.

Funny story: when I was selling shoes in college one of the girls I went to high school with worked in the book department (yea, department stores had book departments).
Every time a new Star Trek book came in she came and told me. I always thanked her, while thinking "as if."

She was pretty cute, but I was too cool for the books and too nerdy to realize why she bothered.

walter म्हणाले...

Saw a rock show in Madison last night and witnessed a Furry couple. I wonder if they got their theme night calendar mixed and decided to stay.

Joanne Jacobs म्हणाले...

"Swingers" were supposed to be a thing in the '60s. Wife-swapping! Key parties!

As for Robert Heinlein, he wrote a number of books in which an older man got to have lots of sex with good-looking young women, who found him very attractive. Wish fulfillment, I thought.

mikee म्हणाले...

Polyamory has been around my whole life. Today's version of irresponsible sexual partnering under the banner of polyamory is still just irresponsible fucking around, as was the free love of the 1960s, as was the rebellious anti-religious sex of the 1970s, as was the druggy promiscuity of the 1980s, as were the unrestrained sexual escapades of the 1990s, as was the early 2000's debauchery, as was the millenial 2010s coming of age immorality, as was the last five years of "polyamory." And when you fuck around, eventually you find out. FAFO, polyamorists.

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