Said Bob Mackie about Judy Garland, quoted in "Bob Mackie notoriously created Cher’s look— but he didn’t always like it: 'Don’t tell anyone'" (NY Post).
Mackie also designed for Tina Turner "She was just amazing and funny and if she hated something she told you immediately."
Is this typical of great singers, that they blurt it right out what they don't like? Judy "didn’t mind telling you" and Tina "told you immediately."
We're not told what Marilyn Monroe thought of that Happy-Birthday-President-Kennedy dress, which Mackie designed for her. She wasn't a great singer, but she was obviously a great performer. Looking it up, I see that she kept her opinions about other people to herself.
Anyway, my question is whether there's a strong connection between great singing talent and the unfiltered expression of opinion. Perhaps the free flow of emotional opinions is what you really want in a singer.
And to tie that back to the second post of the day, maybe that's what seems to be missing when Timotheé Chalamet sings Bob Dylan. What is that extra thing that Bob is doing that Timmy can't do?
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३४ टिप्पण्या:
Judy Garland = classy.
Cher - "look at me!'
I never really thought about until now - but Cher looked like a drag queen.
A woman had to have a really strong will to survive in the music industry back then. Or survive Hollywood in Judy's case. I've always assumed Mackie's designs were driven by what the performer wanted because his Carol Burnett gowns were so different from the crazy ones young stars war on the red carpet back in the day.
Tina Turner was one of the absolute best live performers I've ever seen. Just riveting. Couldn't take my eyes off of her. RIP
Maybe that's why so many impersonated her.
Getting up in front a bunch of people and singing takes a lot of courage. And ego. And there's a lot of competition. You have to think you're great, and better than everyone else.
Another singer with strong opinions: Anita Bryant. "it was adam and eve. Not adam and steve". Only now it is.
Monroe, like you said, was a great performer not a great singer. Its too bad she didn't do more musicals. Sooner. Or do better ones. Her first one was her best "Gentlemen perfer Blondes" 1953. Think of how musicals would've been better in 1948-1952 with her.
Tina Turner was an amazing talent. She was The Best!
Ah, but Chalamet does that extra Bob thing in the film, when he is "being Bob." On SNL, he was just Timothee singing Bob. But alas, you'll watch it at home, on your 19" Philco black-and-white, in monaural sound. JK, love ya, Professor!
I wonder how many Harvey Weinstein types were running in Hollywood in the 30s, 40s, and 50s and never got exposed. Shirley Temple in her book says Arthur Freed, head of the MGM musical unit, exposed himself and wanted Temple to give him a blow job when she was 14. Instead, she just laughed at him.
Judy Garland, Marilyn Monroe, Tina Turner - women I was never interested in. You see them on tabloids and famous for being famous talk shows. Cher was good in Suspect (1987) with Dennis Quaid but Liam Neeson badly overacted his part as weird homeless guy. And of course Tramps and Thieves.
Were celebrities penalized for being a diva back in the day pre-me? The record makes it look to be a feature not bug…If I’m designing for these people the feedback help everyone dunnit?
Kind of makes you wonder how quick Lulu Porter was when it came to the unfiltered expression of opinion.
Your second sentence needs work. The first assertion is mostly out of their control and the second makes no sense at all.
For me, the thing about Dylan is that when he sings, the words can have all sorts of meanings and shades of meaning, but when people cover him the song usually gets boiled down to one specific take, which can be really great, but lacks Dylan's protean energy, which triggers an alert response getting me to listen in a more open ended way.
"my question is whether there's a strong connection between great singing talent and the unfiltered expression of opinion."
IMO, great singing talent is the ability to it the right notes in a pleasing way........nothing more.
Yes love her.
Autistic artisans.
Coincidentally, I saw the documentary "Sid and Judy" last night. It was okay, but you had to be a real fan to get into that level of detail and appreciate the archival work. Jennifer Jason Leigh read Judy's words, sometimes falling into her Dorothy Parker voice. Jon Hamm read her husband Sid Luft's words - interesting Bronx accent and still recognizably the voice of Don Draper. Judy was big, big, big in the 50s. It's sad how her following dwindled later.
Simply The Best, Better Than All The Rest
Cher had a few good songs that fit her singing voice/style. Otherwise, her showbiz success is unfathomable. I guess chicks like her. Of course, compared to Barbara Steisand, she's towering talent. Streisand is about as likable as a runaway bulldozer. At least Cher has some charm.
rhhardin said...
"Judy Garland, Marilyn Monroe, Tina Turner - women I was never interested in. You see them on tabloids and famous for being famous talk shows. Cher was good..."
The women you listed all have one other thing in common. They are all frequently impersonated by Drag Queens.
"Peachy said...
I never really thought about until now - but Cher looked like a drag queen.
1/26/25, 9:37 AM"
Cher was beautiful, stunningly so, when she was young. It was when she aged and tried to hard to hang onto her looks that she became a caricature of herself. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e8/d7/c3/e8d7c3944213e66c4e253fe84614050f.jpg
Agree!
One way of describing it is that Dylan's singing has a deep texture. There are multiple layers of meaning or emotion in his songs. "Don't think Twice It's alright", is a good example of that. You can listen to Dylan's version and think he left her and has nothing but contempt for her. You can listen another time and hear that she left him and his scorn is a defensive shield he developed to lessen the pain of losing someone he wants. The decent covers of this song just convey one menaing, the bad covers are all surface and no meaning. The TC covers I heard on SNL are in the later category for me. Perhaps they were better in the film.
I got to see Tina Turner in Memphis, TN many years ago. She was still with Ike and the Ikettes and Proud Mary was the biggest song on the radio. I agree. One powerful and energetic singer, dancer, performer.
Fair enough. That's probably why I think Bob Dylan is a great singer and you don't.
"Is this typical of great singers, that they blurt it right out what they don't like? "
Starting with a sample size of two, it's a bit of a leap to jump to "typical," but whatever. On something like this, it's best to remember that one size never fits all (no matter what the label says). The only thing that's really 'typical' of great singers is that they have a talent for singing. How they sing and what style of signing they're good at is probably not at all typical -- back to that 'one size' thing, I suspect. That's my guess, FWIW.
Dylan has an unparalleled sense of irony. It's never turned off. That might be the difference.
I agree with your first and third sentences, but I think "never" should be modified to "usually not" in your second sentence. Dylan has had some very sincere songs without a trace of irony. "I threw it all away" from Nashville Skyline is one as well as some of his religious songs from his born again period, such as "Every Grain of Sand" .
Question: "Anyway, my question is whether there's a strong connection between great singing talent and the unfiltered expression of opinion."
It took me a bit to find but something David Foster Wallace said on this subject managed to stay with me, coupled with all the recent talk about David Lynch may have also helped. YouTube: The way I realized... that what the really great artist do is... they are entirely themselves... they got their own vision, their own way of fracturing reality, and if its authentic and true you will feel it in your nerve endings."
Yes. David Lynch was not a singer, but he was an artist.
Good point. No trace of irony in "Sara".
There were more attractive women in any high school yearbook in the 70s.
I think DFW hit the nail on the head about what a great artist does.
David Lynch did some singing. Here's an erie cover version of Dylan's "Ballad of Hollis Brown". The song and video are very Lynch like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQyubA95-Tk
Timothee was Bob in a movie. Timothee is not Bob in real life. Ergo, Timothee needs to be Timothee in real life.
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