We're trying to get the war stopped, that horrible war that's going on in Ukraine with Russia, Ukraine. We've got a little progress. It's a tough one. It's a nasty one. It's nasty. People are being killed at levels that nobody's ever seen. It's very level fields. And the only thing that stops a bullet is a body, a human body. And the number of soldiers that are being killed on both sides is astronomical. I've never seen anything like that. And rapidly. I get reports every week and it's not even… It's like just… They're going down. Nobody's seen anything like it. It's a very flat surface, a very flat land. That's why it's great farming land. It's the breadbasket for the world actually. But it's very flat and there's nothing to stop a bullet but a body. There's no protection, no nothing. And what's happening there is far worse than people are reporting for both sides.... And now you look at all those people are dead. All those cities are destroyed. It's nice to say they want their land back, but the cities are largely destroyed. They've left Kiev because probably maybe they want to use it or occupy it, but they haven't done it. They've done a lot of damage, but relatively compared to the other cities, very little. But many of those cities are gone. Those beautiful towers, those beautiful buildings that they had are now laying on their sides destroyed, totally destroyed. The turrets and all of the magnificent 1,000 year old, 2,000 year old structures that were very strong are blown to smithereens. You look at some of those cities and not one building standing. So when you say, take over the country, take over what? Take over what? That's a 100-year rebuild. Take 100 years to rebuild it and you can never have it the way it was. What a shame. It should have never happened. It would've never happened. If I were president, that war would've never happened.... Had President Obama drawn the line and where it meant something, you wouldn't have even had Russia there. But in the end, I never understood why Russia went there. They were not getting very much out of it. But now their time has taken up with Ukraine and we'd like to get them to stop on Ukraine, and Ukraine stop also. As you know, when I went to the cathedral, which is fantastic, the job that they've done in France and the job that Macron Emmanuel did a… He did a phenomenal job on the rebuilding of that cathedral. It's magnificent. And they did a great thing and they had great respect for our country. They treated me… Meaning I'm the country, I'm the representative of our country. And we were treated with great respect. And one of the people that came to pay his respects is, as you know, Ukraine, Zelenskyy. And he would like to have peace. He wants peace. Everyone's being killed. It's the worst carnage that this world has seen since World War II. I've had pictures of fields where bodies lying on top of bodies, looks like the old pictures of the Civil War where just bodies are all over. Just if you saw those pictures, you'd feel more strongly about it. It's got to stop, and we're trying to get it to stop.... We got to stop it. It's carnage....
१७ डिसेंबर, २०२४
The intensely visual and emotional Trumpian view of the landscape of war.
From the transcript of yesterday's press conference:
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
पोस्ट्स
७९ टिप्पण्या:
The diplomatic and intelligence corps of 40 nations are poring over every word, trying to take the bouillabaisse and reassemble the ingredients.
If Trump brings Putin and Zelenskyy to the table and negotiates the cessation of hostilities, will he get the Nobel Peace Prize?
Thats why I like Trump - he reacts like a normal person. He's some Goddamn ghoul like Miss lindsey who chortles over "killing russkies", and talks about how we're going to steal all of Ukraine's "precious metals".
The only way to make peace at this point, is give Putin the oblasts that have aleady been incorporated into Russia, and agree Ukraine won't join Nato. In return, Putin will have to give some sort of ironclad assurance that he wont invade Ukraine again. After almost 3 years of bloodshed, Russia wont settle for anything less.
We never should have provoked Russia. Ukraine is their backyard and none of our business. Turning the Ukraine into a USA satellite may bring joy to the Neo-cons, chuck shumer, and miss lindsey , but its irrelevant to the security of the USA and our well-being. It literally has zero to do with us.
Well, surely, since he got one for the Abraham Accords. Oh, wait... never mind.
"It's the breadbasket for the world actually."
Not anymore.
LMAO. That’s a good one. Peace Prizes go to Democrat Presidents who personally pick out people to kill via drone strikes, not to Republican Presidents who actually, you know, make peace.
Its amazing how many rich old 'muricans just love war and playing "the great game". They love getting involved in the all these stupid foreign conflicts, wasting billions of dollars, and getting thousands upon thousands of foreigners killed, and sometimes Americans too. Trump gets that.
Remember that dummy Nikki Haley, she was ready to start WW III with Putin, and shouldn't even name the oblasts that Putin has taken over! She had to be rescused by NJ fats, before she could start listing some of them. The other neo-con clowns in the Senate are no different. Go ask some mouth-breathing moron like Mitt Romney, Liz Warren or Liz cheney some detailed questions about the Russian-ukraine conflict and they couldn't answer once they got past their "script".
Both sides have already lost the war. The continuation of the fight only compounds their losses. I would think the average citizen of both countries knows this.
Perhaps I'm overlooking someone, but I can't think of another high-level politician in America who's saying, stop the war, stop the killing, stop the destruction. Cease fire. Negotiate a settlement. Peace.
Not one. WTF? How can that be? On this fact alone, if you hate Donald Trump, it's time for an agonizin' reappraisal.
Hating Russia and Russians is very much an anglosphere tradition. It's much older than Mackinder's Geographic Pivot of History even, originating right around the time the Ottoman Empire got its butt kicked by the Russians and Sevastopol looked as though it might open a 3rd year-round-ice-free port for the continental power to challenge British seafaring dominance.
US-Russian relations weren't always like this, but we inherited the tradition from Britain when they pawned their imperial crown and it could be had at a bargain price.
Some bargain.
Not a peep from Code Pink, not when they're seeing orange.
The lefties are saying that, but it's about Gaza.
The British Empire demanded total war on Germany in WWI because they had decided to build a navy. And they talked the Russian Tsar into sending ill prepared and ill armed troops to fight Germany, to make sure that the two nations never joined forces into a colossus.
The same thing is going on now, the US has dropped an economic iron curtain across Europe, to keep Russia and Germany from any kind of economic alliance. To suggest that any war has only one reason is foolish, but among the many reasons for provoking this war, prying Germany and Russia apart again was surely one of them.
and the night we missed the boat at Algeciras the watchman going about serene with his lamp and O that awful deepdown torrent O and the sea the sea crimson sometimes like fire and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in the Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little streets and pink and blue and yellow houses and the rosegardens and the jessamine and geraniums and cactuses and Gibraltar as a girl where I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.
I'll stop it in 24 hours! Lets see it!...said it was very easy,now its very hard, which one? c'mon man get real why lie about?
@RCOCEAN II
"The only way to make peace at this point, is give Putin the oblasts that have aleady been incorporated into Russia, and agree Ukraine won't join Nato. In return, Putin will have to give some sort of ironclad assurance that he wont invade Ukraine again."
I can think of an ironclad way for Russia to provide assurance they won't invade Ukraine: letting Ukraine join NATO.
Jaq, I think there's a lot of ahistorical shit spinning inside your brain.
Not sure what you're talking about Jaq. There's an undersea gas pipeline in the Baltic that was sabotaged by basket-weaving Ukrainian sugar beet farmers and their 50ft sailboat that says England and the US is up to nothing of the sort. Basket-weaving sugar beet farmers are excellent underwater demolitions experts, everyone knows that.
You mean counter-the-narrative shit. Maybe you should try examining history with an openness to the possibility that a lot of what passes for historical analysis is propagandist pap. Bismarck warned Germany not to build a navy for this very reason, and Bismarck was a very smart man, but Bismarck could not live forever.
Get your ass over there or shut the fuck up. You have zero credibilit.
Ukraine Says It Killed Senior Russian General in Moscow Scooter Bombing ~ WSJ
Special Motorbike Operation
I hope the scooter is not too badly damaged.
Day 1,021 of Putin’s 3 day war.
[Shrug] One cannot follow the Trump weave without a three-digit IQ. Democrats and journalists need not apply.
"I'm the country" translates to "l'etat, c'est moi." :-)
"From the transcript of yesterday's press conference"
Did some poor person have to transcribe that or do they do it with 'puters, now?
&Tom T.: Come on man. He was saying the exact opposite. He was saying that the world leaders weren’t showing respect to him personally but to the country he was representing.
Nothing a good court stenographer couldn't follow.
This war will end in 2025.
Putin will have to give some sort of ironclad assurance that he wont invade Ukraine again.
I can't wait for Trump to get off Air Force One, wave a piece of paper and say: The President has returned from Russia bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time.
I bet he will even use the British spelling of "honor".
As someone who has voted against Trump three times and am no fan, I will feel so much better about the safety of my teenaged sons with Trump in charge.
The Biden Administration is trying to bully the Ukrainians into lowering their draft age to 18. Why? When have we ever told another country to that they had to draft teenagers?
Why? I think the answer is you cannot send American and British teenagers to gather bullets and PTSD if Pavel and Ivan and on the couch playing Call of Duty on their PS5.
Another indictment, more likely.
Try to picture Biden stringing together that many sentences. Or Harris, without giggling.
"I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades. And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do."
The great statesman Joey.
Second to none in foreign policy.
While the Russian and Ukrainian world breadbaskets were offline (c. 1917 - 1991) the US, Canada, Australia and other countries filled the role very nicely.
BION there were periods of time within that span of years when the USA was sending wheat to those breadbaskets to keep their inhabitants alive.
Hiking in September in the Faroe Islands, my wife and I happened upon a couple of young men; where are you from? Ah, Ukraine. Vacationing from their safe haven in Denmark; refugees. How do you think it'll end, I ask? It depends, said one, upon the next American election. We'd like to go back; we have friends who have been killed at the front. They were lucky. Horticultural students doing research in Denmark when the war started.
We should always be on the alert for the next Neville Chamberlain. We should also try to have a better solution than merely to second guess a peace deal. Is there a realistic military outcome in which the interests of the US and its allies are materially better than they would be under the sort of deal outlined by RC Ocean? Ukraine is not going to conquer Russia. Russia, with or without Putin, will be unstable and revanchist. The weaker we make Russia, the stronger we make China. It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world.
George Soros wrote, back in the '90s, that we were going to use Eastern Europeans for cannon fodder against Russia.
Incidentally, the combination of manpower from Eastern Europe with the technical capabilities of NATO would greatly enhance the military potential of the Partnership because it would reduce the risk of body bags for NATO countries, which is the main constraint on their willingness to act. - George Soros
Incidentally, the fact checkers say that he never said this.
There are enough mines, UXO, and metal scrap in Eastern Ukraine that they'll be pulling it out of the ground and getting maimed and killed by it for the next 50 years. If Andrei Martyanov is to be believed, in the last 33 months of this war the Russians and Ukrainians have collectively used 900,000 shells/month, or 29,700,000 just in artillery shells, which honestly is probably seriously low-balled.
Something tells me to go long wheat-futures.
That's persuasion, not emotion.
Forget all that meandering. This is the only important part: "It's nice to say they want their land back, but...."
There is no "but" to national sovereignty. Maybe Trump would sacrifice the territory of the U.S. to a foreign aggressor, but Ukraine will not. And there was a time in this country when people understood and agreed with that.
Well then, before you post a possibly inaccurate quote, shouldn't you at least share the source that contradicts the fact checkers? Unless it was just the monkeys flying out of your butt who told you.
I think it would be good if some smart investigator made an effort to piece together - once and for all - Biden family corruption in Ukraine. and not get killed or indicted by the corrupt American Soviet left.
TR got one of the first peace prizes for brokering peace between Japan and Russia. A scary but unsuccessful revolution soon followed in Russia so maybe Putin not open to Trump brokering peace.
"And there was a time in this country when people understood and agreed with that."
The vast majority of people in the US don't give a crap about Ukraine's sovereignty. Most of them couldn't locate it on a map. A pretty good portion couldn't even tell you it was in Eastern Europe. They do care that a huge amount of money is going to support a war in some place they don't give a crap about while there are homeless vets in the US and people in NC are living in tents while winter is setting in.
Canada taking over N Dakota?
I myself don't remember where Asia starts. Which former Soviet ham radio contacts were Europe and which were Asia.
Nothing to worry about here. Trump said he would end the war in 24 hours.
NOt really up to you - or any democrat - or Trump.
Just google the text, Freder. It's not that hard.
Odd that the guy heading up the investigation of the biolabs in Ukraine gets assassinated.
Q: Why does America go to war?
A: To learn geography.
Oceans 11 says "We never should have provoked Russia" to invade Ukraine. "Provoked"? Let's see, the US and NATO agreed NOT to admit Ukraine to NATO. During the prequal to the Russian invasion, the US did nothing more than say that Russia shouldn't invade a sovereign country. Is that "provocation" that justified a Russian invasion? No, US "provocation" did not start the invasion; Putin thought that he could terrorize Ukraine into a quick surrender, showing himself ignorant of the history of "his neighborhood".
Peace is going to require some concessions on both sides. Fortunately, the US will shortly have a leader who is compos mentis (and also an experienced negotiator).
I was going to say "From your lips to God's ears", but Trump has already said that.
i think a lot of us started to learn where (and what) Ukraine is when the USSR disappeared. If you're old enough, you may remember what Stalin did to Ukraine when it was part of the USSR.
Nothing to worry about here. Trump said he would end the war in 24 hours.
If the war is ended before he even takes office, what will you bitch about next?
"If the war is ended before he even takes office, what will you bitch about next?"
"It took two weeks, not 24 hours. Trump lied!"
Mark my words.
The Triple Entente, pre 1914, was an alliance between Russia, France and England. Jaq. You're wrong. England wanted peace. Imperial Germany, it's military ruling class, wanted war. They would prop up Austria Hungary, knock out France (and impose indemnities - again - and annex parts of Belgium and France). My Director of Studies was Norman Stone, who wrote The Eastern Front. You could try reading Fritz Fischer, or even AJP Taylor. I studied enough of this to throw the blame for WW1 exclusively on Germany. They sought war.
Ukraine still exports large amounts of grain. In the last two years, they sank half the Russian Black Sea Fleet and forced the rest to flee from Crimea to safer harbors way down the coast. Now dozens of ships from neutral countries are trading through Odesa and smaller ports, and most of what's exported is grain, despite the fact that Russia is occupying a third or more of their grain-growing areas.
The site World's Top Exports lists Ukraine as the 6th largest exporter of wheat in 2023, with 5% of the market (link). That was the first full year of full-scale war, with ~20% of the country occupied. By the way, the top two wheat exporters were Russia (16%) and the US (15.8%), which means the US would probably have been #1 if it weren't for all the stolen Ukrainian wheat counted in the Russian total. They also list Ukraine as the 4th-largest exporter of corn, with 9.4%.
Russia just announced that they won't be supplying Syria with grain, since the ungrateful Syrians deposed their client tyrant there. Ukraine has announced that they will gladly fill the gap, and are currently talking to the new Syrian government about how much grain they need. The fact that the Russian grain supplied to Syria was very likely stolen from Ukraine is an ironic twist.
Not the least bit odd that the war criminal who ordered the gassing of Ukrainian troops was assassinated. And the fact that his 'investigation' never came up with any evidence whatsoever of Ukrainian wrongdoing in regards to "biolabs" is a strong hint that there was nothing to discover.
Zelensky promised to sign the Mingsk accords to get elected.
After getting elected Zelenksy has:
- reneged on his promised to sign the Mingsk accords
- thrown his political opponents in jail
- thrown priests in jail
- thrown media in jail
- cancelled elections
Ukraine is not a democracy.
The US and UK provoked this war when they scuttle the Mingsk Accords.
"I'll stop it in 24 hours! Lets see it!...said it was very easy,now its very hard, which one? c'mon man get real why lie about?"
Are you teaching your teenage son to be childish as you are?
Hey, Freder. None of this would be necessary except you voted for Biden. Now somebody has to fix your fuck up. That always takes longer.
Aside from Comrade Jaq -- it's fairly quiet so far from Althouse's usual suspects, briefing notes must still be being prepared... Awaiting orders.....
/The head of the military’s nuclear, chemical and biological defense forces……….had regularly accused Kyiv of plotting to use chemical weapons and develop a nuclear “dirty bomb”./ ~ WSJ
Just couldn’t make this up.
"Accuse them of that of which you are guilty" is a longstanding Russian propaganda technique, after all.
The similarities to Assad’s brutal regime are striking.
Wasn’t Russia also supporting Assad?
There is a pattern developing here.
"...there's nothing to stop a bullet but a body."
I don't believe I've heard anybody put it that way. Not in the movies, song, documentaries about war.
"If Trump brings Putin and Zelenskyy to the table and negotiates the cessation of hostilities, will he get the Nobel Peace Prize?"
No. Why? Because ... TRUMP!
Zelenskyy couldn't sign the "Mingsk Accords" because there were no such accords and no such city. He didn't have to sign the Minsk accords because they had already been signed in 2014 and 2015 and immediately and repeatedly violated by the Russians long before he was elected in 2019.
Has Zelenskyy ever thrown anyone in jail - political opponent, priest, or media - who had not committed a serious crime? Is it wrong to throw a Russian Orthodox priest in jail if (for instance) he's sending the locations of Ukrainian troops and weapons systems to the Russian armed forces? I think it would be wrong NOT to throw such a person in jail. Being a priest, or journalist, or politician, should not make one immune to punishment for actual crimes.
By the way, the most senior person in Ukraine to be indicted and removed from his position was the "chairman" of the Supreme Court (I think that means Chief Justice) who was accused of taking bribes. Was that a bad thing?
Finally, postponing elections is not the same as canceling them.
Looks like Achilles is batting .000 in his Ukrainian generalizations.
I would have to say that is pretty damned impressive extemporaneous speaking. Clear, visual, and thoughtful. Thanks to our hostess for noting it. I hope Mr. Trump can get something done on this.
A settlement that strengthens Putin and Russia also strengthens Russia's and China's support for Iran, a country that Trump is likely to engage with through direct or indirect hostilities in 2025 through his "all in" support for Israel. America may fundamentally weaken its position in the Middle East while at the same time weakening its position in Europe. China gains mightily by doing nothing! The cohesion of the advanced economy democracies globally will be weakened and American reliability will be diminished in the eyes of all of its allies. The process of decomposition that Biden has started will gather steam under Trump.
An interesting parallel development is that both Putin and Netanyahu want to change internationally recognized borders. Even more interesting is that Trump has already agreed in his first term to recognizing Israel's change of borders in the Golan Heights through annexation. Putin is just proposing more of the same. A fundamental American, western, and international policy axiom about changing borders by force appears to be about to undergo a once-in-a-century revision. Both Putin's and Netanyahu's "facts on the ground" strategy to expansion and annexation will be rewarded, the power of international legal concepts weakened. One doubt's if the American public will even care. America does appear to be entering some new era of decline and retreat. And the Showman will entertain the crowds in the cheap seats.
I've seen dead after a firefight. This needs to end. Allof it.
The Russians took over much of that land when they invaded back in 2014 and Obama did little to nothing to help Ukraine get it back. Seems to me he didn't agree and understand Ukraine shouldn't sacrifice territory.
As noted in reply to Mark, Obama certainly didn't care about Ukraine giving up territory when he needed to demonstrate more flexibility to Vlad. Somehow these Democrat shills keep thinking nobody remembers that.
One wonders why Weevil just comes out and blatantly lies. The US government and the neocons sure have some stupid drones that are willing to just say the dumbest things.
I wonder why 'Achilles' (ironic name) can't stop lying. I have never been an employee of the US government, have no sympathy whatsoever with the current US government, and am not any sort of neocon.
I've corrected Achilles' misstatements (to put it kindly) about the Minsk accords, and he doesn't even try to defend them. Should be easy enough if I'm lying. Of course a guy who can't spell a simple name like Minsk in two tries and doesn't have the courtesy to address his opponent by name is the kind of pitiful loser it's hardly worth arguing with. Up your game, Achilles, or change your name to Thersites.
lonejuicebox is behind the leftie/nevertrump curve. As demonstrated in other comments the new hotness is demanding Trump obtain the return of the Donbass and other Ukranian territory seized by Russia over a decade ago. This was never a priority of the Obama administration in the two years it was in power after the war started (in fact, Obama downplayed US interest in defending Ukraine's borders) and wasn't a priority for Biden before he signaled that NATO might not respond to another 'minor incursion' just like it didn't respond to the one in 2014.
If Trump negotiates peace, the Nobel Peace Prize will be awarded to Obama again. Those Nobel Idiots are players.
Also (and I haven't read this whole string so I might be duplicating), but if anyone has seen Showtimes "We Will Dance Again" it just reiterates how awful these radical Muslim men are (no doubt either encouraged or tacitly allowed by the women in then their lives).
I once bought a Joyce novel with the intent to read it over a summer break from college. The intent remained intact through mid June, IIRC, before evaporating in the summer sun.
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