From Tuesday night's debate, that's Donald Trump, accepting the consequences of firing people. They write books and get back at you. In that structure of cause and effect, not firing people is a subtle form of censorship, and we the voters ought to notice the silence and think about what we are not hearing.
Esper is Mark Esper, who wrote "A Sacred Oath: Memoirs of a Secretary of Defense During Extraordinary Times." Wikipedia says:
In the book, Esper wrote that President Donald Trump wanted to launch a missile into Mexico. He made many other claims about Trump. Among these claims, Esper asserts that, during a meeting in June 2020, Trump asked whether U.S. troops could shoot Black Lives Matter protesters; that Trump once called Esper, Vice President Mike Pence and General Mark Milley "fucking losers" after Milley told him that he had no command authority over the active duty and National Guard troops Trump wanted to deploy against protesters; and that an officer, whom Esper does not name, explored the possibility of invoking the Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution to remove Trump from office after a May 2020 meeting of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.....
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In that structure of cause and effect, not firing people is a subtle form of censorship, and we the voters ought to notice the silence and think about what we are not hearing.
Hence Obama's "scandal free" Administration.
“In that structure of cause and effect, not firing people is a subtle form of censorship, and we the voters ought to notice the silence and think about what we are not hearing.”
Excellent point.
The leftwing D-elite machine are all about the million dollar book deals. True enough.
That was a very astute observation by Trump. I couldn't watch the debate, past my bedtime.
25 Lies Kamala Harris Told In Her Debate Against Trump
Trump sounded like a complete buffoon at the debate. Reading the transcript, though, a lot of his criticisms are spot on.
I didn't notice before his comment about the economists. The Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) economists in the administration were widely seen as wackadoodles by mainstream economists. The MMTs were saying you can spend as much as you want without causing inflation. They spent as much as they wanted, but got the inflation serious economists predicted. They should have been fired.
I remember after the debacle; I expected people to resign. or be fired. we got nothing instead. All we got was a non-apology apology from Biden.
Some you-tubers are asking about Kamala's ear-rings. They look just like the ear-rings that are used as headphones.
Cruel neutrality is a great defense mechanism in the faculty lounge (been there, done that, escaped). But running a country or winning a vital election? Not so much.
What everyone must understand about the modern democrat party: They do not care about anyone. They are selfish greedy a-holes who only care about their own vast wealth - and power.
Much like Benghazi 12 years ago. Read the cast of characters here. Most of them showed up in the Trump administration. Covering with a pillow...
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2024/09/11/12th-anniversary-of-the-benghazi-attack-the-benghazi-brief/
President Trump seems to be a brainstorming type of guy. In brainstorming, you throw out every possible idea you can think of and encourage everyone else participating to throw their ideas on the table too. It doesn't matter how crazy or farfetched the idea is, like launching titanium "rods from god" from space on nuclear facilities.
You get them all out there, figure out which ones might make sense and so on. Then make an action plan.
Did President Trump ask if he could send a missile at Mexico? It would not surprise me. Do I have a problem with him asking that? And asking for discussion of pros, cons, alternatives etc? Probably not though it would depend on context.
I do a lot of brainstorming, spitballing, blue-skying, thinking out loud, what-if? etc in my line of work. If you heard some of the crazy ideas I come up with you might want to lock me up.
It is an extremely valuable tool.
John Henry
It is a bullshit point. Someone deciding not to write a book is not censorship. My God, defending Trump has destroyed Althouse's "cruel neutrality" (which was always nonsense).
So, Esper et al were fomenting an insurrection against the Trump administration. Pelosi carried out a coup against citizens who peacefully assembled to raise awareness of diverse irregularities and demonstrated fraud in several Democratic districts, the People reacted to a probable Whitmer conspiracy and authorized violence against those assembled, including Capitol punishment.
As for George "Fentanyl" Floyd syndrome sourced from China, manufactured South of the border, then transported through immigration reform, Some, Select [Black] Lives Matter in a Pro-Choice religion.
It's not exactly true that no one has gotten fired, they terminated the head of the Secret Service after the assassination attempt on Trump.
I think when it comes to personnel, Trump has a terrible track record and this is not a winning issue for him. He's a terrible judge of character and competence and lousy at actually running things effectively. He makes it sound like he was some ruthless executive cracking the whip and demanding excellence and the vindictive nobodies he fired retaliated against him by writing books. The nerve!
On the Afghan withdrawal, the decisions were made by the politicians, primarily the Commander-in-Chief, not by the military people, who just (to their shame) did what the CIC wanted them to do. Nobody got fired because the persons fired would let the world know who was responsible, and why.
It's a valid point. You'll have a lot fewer disgruntled former employees if you never fire anybody.
I read Esper's book. If anyone deserved to be fired it was him. Esper had zero loyalty to Trump, felt zero graditude for Trump appointing him, and proudly boasts how he sabotaged trump's agenda and misinformed Trump and hid things from him.
That Trump was his boss and Commander in Chief meant zero to Esper. He didn't want the army/NG used during the BLM/Antifa riots and therefore Trump was "Crazy" to want the opposite. He told his subordinates to not obey White House orders before/after the election but go through him. Esper thought TRump would go "Crazy" if he lost, and use the army to seize the Government. Or so he says.
Trump was hamstrung by Mitch the BItch McConnell and his gang of RINOs who worked with Schumer to slow-roll and obstruct every Trump nominee. Trump compounded the problem with his weird fetish for "Ivy League Smart guys" and lack of idealogy. Appointing some rock ribbed conservatives would have served him much better.
"I was the unelected President of the United States" by Ron Klain.
He's learned. His appointments will be more JD Vance guys. Doug Burgum to Energy.
Its astounding to read about Reagan's Cabinet: Schultz, Meese, Baker, Don reagan, Weinberger, Casey, etc. and then read about Trump's. Its dutiful professionals vs. Self-interested clowns.
I have a sneaking suspicion that if Kamala is elected, this issue will be rectified. She is impossible to work with and can't keep any staff - a real shrew of a boss. So she'll be firing people left and right, and the country will just go down the drain.
Sally327 said…
“It's not exactly true that no one has gotten fired, they terminated the head of the Secret Service after the assassination attempt on Trump.”
The topic has to do specifically with Afghanistan and the Taliban. Trump is correct.
I’m sure there were fine people on both sides, though.
Trump was right- the Democrat Administrations don't really ever hold anyone to account inside their own administration- the buck always lands on no one's desk. However, Trump didn't fire enough people either and in his term in office he made some horrible choices like Sessions for AG whose first action in office was to recuse himself from running his own department. Esper was also a terrible choice that never should have been made in the first place.
That's definitely not something Trump should have brought up during the debate. I wonder if Trump actually said those things or if they're second- and third- and fourth-hand rumors that grow with repetition. Maybe Esper and others are taking Trump literally rather than taking him seriously. Maybe Trump is just letting off steam the way that people online do. How many times have we seen people say that Trump "should" do or say something that Trump definitely shouldn't do? Maybe he should just launch a missile into Mexico. Right. That's not seriously meant.
Career politicians' cabal.
The worst thing about Trump is that he brings out the worst in other people. It's also the best thing about Trump. Now we know how awful the Establishment is.
Reagan's people were just as self-interested, usually fighting each other, but they weren't clowns about it or deliberately tried to embarrass their boss. I remember Schultz sucking up to the Iran-Contra committee, and I'll bet all but Meese blabbed to Woodward.
When Trump came on the scene, "rock ribbed conservatives" weren't necessarily reliable. Those who'd spent enough time in DC had largely been co-opted by the system.
Trump couldn't get "the best" people to work for him, namely the weasels who make Washington work. No David Gergen would come in and save the day.
Esper sounds pretty disgruntled.
She was not terminated. She resigned.
I don't have much positive to say about Trump, but this is one area where he should get credit. He has publicly acknowledged his hiring and administrative mistakes in his first administration and has vowed to do better.
John Kirby (retired Vice-Admiral) hit "reply all" on an email that included Fox News, to the effect that veterans complaining about the Afghanistan withdrawal should be ignored because they were all "single stripers". Truly as wretched spokesman as KJP in not hiding contempt for anyone not "with" the regime.
Trump didn't have decades of experience in politics to know who he should hire.
I'd like to see the people you mentioned hire and manage subcontractors to get a skyscraper built.
OF COURSE the military did what the CIC ordered them to do. Unless the order is unlawful, they have no legal choice but to do what the CIC orders them to do. And others above them in chain of command, of course.
Would you really want it to be any other way?
I would hope that they would voice their objections and try to change the CIC's mind. But once the decision is made, salute, say Aye, Aye, Sir and carry out the order to the best of their ability no matter how much they disagree with it.
John Henry
there is an incentive toward the minefield, thats my metaphor for the swamp
One very real problem for an "outsider" who comes in and takes over an incredibly large entity like the federal government is that you don't know who the good guys and the bad guys are on your own team. Trump learned the hard way. I expect much better appointments this time, and a lot of firings (including knowing the tricks about how to be even able to fire in a governmental agency - it's not easy).
"It is a bullshit point. Someone deciding not to write a book is not censorship."
It depends on the meaning of "censorship." I'm clearly using a broad meaning, as indicated by the word "subtle."
You bind people to silence with self-interest.
"not firing people is a subtle form of censorship"
Is it censorship or hush money?
Hush money is payment to stay quiet. Letting people keep their jobs is a payoff of a sort. Censorship usually implies punishment, not payment.
so if the Zetas eg are operating like insurgents why not attack them
"It depends on the meaning of "censorship." I'm clearly using a broad meaning, as indicated by the word "subtle." You bind people to silence with self-interest."
We are frustrated in trying to understand what is going on when people keep silent. We can't even understand the mechanisms of silence. There can be a conspiracy of silence. I'd like to know who should have been fired. How important are these firings that did not happen. What did we lose in keeping these people in their jobs?
By the same token, firings can be theater. Maybe good people are fired for the political show.
He may be getting up there in years,
But you’d never get that level of logic from Biden
"I'm clearly using a broad meaning, as indicated by the word "subtle." You bind people to silence with self-interest."
Agree. Hush money is a form of censorship.
Kirby is a classic REMF.
Its also possible that people were "fired" in a softer sense: their careers suffered and they will not be promoted. I understand this is common in the military. Firing people for their mistakes is more of a British thing.
It was "scandal free" because Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch ignored all the scandals, or white washed them, as did the media.
Exactly, as in "We who are about to die salute You!" (Gladiator). No, not really, loyalty is owed to the country and to the constiution, not to the individual sitting in the Oval Office. Especially as Trump himself is notorious for his own lack of loyalty.
"There can be a conspiracy of silence."
LBJ put it succinctly. He wanted people inside the tent p***ing out, not outside the tend p***ing in. Trump has a lot of the latter. In the Biden administration no one even dared to suggest Biden was not "sharp as a tack."
Each of these firings by Trump are an indication of his utter incompetence in hiring people. If they were so bad that they needed to be fired, why did he hire them in the first place? Practically everything this guy says comes around to smash him in the a**.
The old Potomac two-step.
Another reason I don't care that Trump is an arrogant, boorish, blowhard: He doesn't dance.
h/t Tom Clancy, Clear and Present Danger
Defense in extraordinary times in an interstitial Spring season. What is a Secretary to do?
LOL! Yes, they were terrible hires but here is the thing- when deciding to hire people you will make mistakes- and if you hire lots of people you will make correspondingly larger numbers of mistakes.
I would call not firing people "damage control" or "controlling the narrative." But whatever term or analogy you want to apply, the point Trump's making seems quite valid.
Freder - you are just a cog in the wheel of the corruption scam that is the Corruptocrat speech stomping party.
Nah. If elected, she won't be the boss, only a cipher. Just like Biden.
It's the old Potomac two-step.
Another reason I don't care that Trump is an arrogant, boorish, blowhard: He doesn't dance.
ht Tom Clancy, Clear and Present Danger
Sessions fell for the same two step, as Ashcroft, but then there were at least two more layers of dead weight
Rosenstein was pursuing the bogus danchenko based fisa warrant
Well I don't know that General Silly Milley Vanilli was into straight fornication, but he sure was a loser. Points to Trump on that. Was Milley a holdover from the Obama administratioin or was he Secretary of Defense Esper's own mistake.
why would you think that, they delivered 10s of millions of equipment to the Taliban, the rest is like eggs and omelets for these people
of course consider the Malley spy ring,
Sessions was a good pick. He was one of the few DC Pols that had endorsed Trump before he got the nomination and was a border hawk with zillions of years on the Judiciary Committee. Nobody knew his first act after confirmation would be to recuse himself for no good reason and throw the whole matter over to Rosenstein. Sessions turned out to be a gutless wimp with zero desire to fight the Ds. He rendered his resignation in May 2021 with plans of going back to the Senate.
You have to wonder if Sessions was a double agent - like Pence, his actions are very suspicious.
Ever hire anyone, Mark?
I have and I have taught how to hire (and fire) people as well.
No matter how intensive the process, it is always a crap shoot.
John Henry
Sally327 said…
“It's not exactly true that no one has gotten fired, they terminated the head of the Secret Service after the assassination attempt on Trump.”
She wasn't fired. She was allowed to resign, in order to keep her government pension.
Field Marshal Feeder drops another turd of his wisdom.
Another question that will not be answered.
NDAs and fat exit packages and BS jobs down the road. Trump understands quite well how that works because he's done it himself.
When Trump fires people, they can still make money (because it's books about Trump)
Baker and Regan are another story. Good point about Trump's experience hiring 60,000 people. The US government is the largest institution in the history of the world.
Sally seems to be evolving here. Why is Trump "notorious" for lack of loyalty?
See this Navy scandal and the veterans' dismay at the light punishment in the comments: Manchester wifi
Of course, it's easy to blame it on the main perp being a Hispanic female.
DARKISLAND: No, that's not true. Officers can resign in protest. Many of them should have. None of them did.
Next the Democrats will tout Modern Newtonian Physics, which no doubt stipulates that gravity is optional.
It is awesome watching the leftists melt down having to defend the indefensible.
We were profoundly lucky that there weren't burning hulks of C17s around that airfield. Resignation, Darkisland, without comment. There were options. The political generals didn't do so, too their everlasting shame--if they were capable of shame.
Trump sounded like a complete buffoon to people who think they are smarter than they actually are.
A historian recently compared Hitler and Churchill's military leadership styles. Hitler would announce his intentions at the beginning of a meeting, thereby curtailing criticism through fear. Churchill came up with many wild ideas but usually followed his generals' advice after an argument.
How does a PIO make admiral?
Mark has no idea what he is talking about as usual.
HR McMaster's book about Vietnam was about this. I am reading his new one.
I agree with both John Henry and Jason. The generals cannot disobey an order from the CinC, that’s how chain of command works. However they always have the option to resign their commission.
I’ve taken heat for writing this on long ago Althouse threads, but I spent my two year hitch in the Army during the Vietnam War working in the Pentagon, and I saw it first-hand. The officers will tell you “Duty, Honor, Country,” except that first comes their career.
One of the things that forcibly struck me during the Afghanistan Withdrawal (though more of a rout than an orderly withdrawal) is is how little the officer corps cared about the welfare of the troops under their command. As a former EM myself that bothered me a lot.
They are just truly vile people.
The "Tailhook" scandal was manufactured by politicians. Careers were destroyed. The Navy was seriously damaged.
And the head of Trump's personal protection detail announced his retirement yesterday, meaning he doesn't have to answer questions from DHS' Inspector General about the Butler PA shooting.
Lefty Mark will explain how he built all those skyscrapers.
The fact that Harris blamed Trump for the Afghanistan debacle, and the economy, tells you everything you need to know why no one gets fired. So many politicians claim they are taking responsibility and are accountable, but they rarely resign to show their sincerity.
What everyone must understand about the modern democrat party: They do not care about anyone. They are selfish greedy a-holes who only care about their own vast wealth - and power.
I'd say generally this critique is true of almost everyone in any political setting, to a pretty good extent. This is a Hobbesian view I began to hold in my mid-20s or so and I've never found a reason to go back on it.
The difference I see between the parties is that one wants to maintain the checks on ambition established in the Constitution and accompanying documents like the Federalist papers, and the other is rather obsessive about how important it is to bring about change. The significance of the passage of time, if you will. Conservatism works because it conserves what works. Progressivism backfires a lot because it makes progress, rather than the results of progress, an end in itself.
Hey, guess what? They just shut down a place near Galveston that was overrun with ( *drumroll* ) Venezuelan Gangs ! .
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/texas-city-shuts-down-hotel-occupied-by-venezuelan-gang-that-sparked-almost-700-police-calls-5721851?utm_source=rtnewsnoe&src_src=rtnewsnoe&utm_campaign=rtbreaking-2024-09-12-1&src_cmp=rtbreaking-2024-09-12-1&utm_medium=email&utm_content=access0&est=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAdeMvYhIAxeHb%2BbcKu2tVArpxhU0LM4oJpGAy7c%2Bbq9f%2Brw1sP%2BU%3D
God Bless our (secretly-funded-by-the-Biden-Administration) NGO's for working together to make all this happen.
Trump's most awesome firing was that of James Comey.
Comey was in Los Angeles making a presentation to FBI agents when a television screen behind his podium announced his firing.
Only thing that could have been cooler, would have been if Trump had pulled his official plane for the trip back to Washington.
Your definition of censorship is ridiculous.
Isn't calling someone an asshole (which you have done to me several times) a "subtle" form of censorship under your definition.
Regardless, Trump tried (I don't know if he actually succeeded since it would have a been a clear violation of the 1st amendment) to require his staff to sign non-disclosure agreements. That is prior censorship, nothing "subtle" about it, yet you have never complained about it.
Most companies have employees sign non-disclosure or non-compete agreements. You don't have to sign. You also don't have to work there.
Can you imagine, just imagine, the conditions in LatinX nations that motivate mass migration. We bombed Serbia in retribution to Muslim migrants attacking native Christians and occupying what is now Kosovo. Incentives matter.
Jason, Big Mike
They can request to resign. The resignation does not have to be accepted.
John Henry
Freder, I'd like an explanation of how signing an NDA as a pre-condition to a job interferes with the 1A rights.
I've signed hundreds over the years. All any of them do is prevent me from disclosing anything I learned on the job. And they don't even prevent that if I learned it from other, public, sources. Such as newspapers.
I was not aware that govt employees, especially at highest levels, did not ALL have to sign NDAs. Going back at least to FDR days.
John Henry
John Henry
Appointees getting fired may have more to do with whether they are loyal or not, rather than with whether they are competent or not. Appointees not getting fired has more to do with the administration not wanting unwanted attention or a scandal than with the appointees' incompetence.
Buttigieg won't get fired because he doesn't actually do anything (and because the administration doesn't want to admit that the Transportation Department does anything wrong). Mayorkas doesn't get fired because he's a convenient fall guy for Biden/Harris's border policy. If they fired him, they could make him responsible for the migrant fiasco, but they they'd have to close the border. They may fire him if they ever have to end the border mess, but they don't want it to end.
Rear Admiral Kirby is blaming Trump for the Afghanistan fiasco. Blaming Trump is the alternative to taking responsibility and firing people. It's forgotten that the Bidenians were supposed to be the intelligent, experienced and mature adults who would set all Trump's mistakes right. For Kirby it's Trump's fault, but if you read between the lines, there's something like an admission of the incompetence of Biden and the people around him.
Stop with the pretentious racist genocide, N.N.
Ann, you would quite rightly not let any of us use the n-word here no matter the context. I request that you delete N.N.'s comment containing the L-word (L***nx)
I guess I am asking you to "censor" N.N. As much as I detest censorship, you must be consistent. If you are not going to permit the n-word, or other pejoratives such as c***k, w*p, p****k, n*p and so on, you must ban this racist obscenity.
John Henry
Mark would have the beginnings of a point if there were ever any performance standards public employees had to meet to keep their jobs. There aren’t. Everything is a jobs program with these folks and once hired, good luck getting rid of non-performers.
Tiny receivers that fit inside the ear canal are available.
Gravity is fluid.
If Freder had ever held a serious job that included industrial secrets, he would know this. He hasn't.
I agree, JH, that the generals cannot and should not be able to disobey an order from the CIC. They do have an obligation to let the CIC know what their advice is, if asked. They are not potted plants. I am not a military expert by any means, but isn't it the role of the upper-level generals to provide honest counsel? Especially in the face of a clearly disastrous plan?
Requesting to resign on the basis of a serious policy disagreement takes real courage.
Not offering to resign and not speaking up does not take courage. Writing books about how you disagreed after you take you take your pension does not take courage.
Freder, I'd like an explanation of how signing an NDA as a pre-condition to a job interferes with the 1A rights.
That is because you worked for private companies, which no matter what you think, are not bound by the first amendment. Federal Government employees do not have to give up their rights to free speech.
Federal employees do have to abide by rules that prohibit them releasing classified information.
If Freder had ever held a serious job that included industrial secrets, he would know this. He hasn't.
You have no idea what jobs I have had. So why don't you STFU?
And John Henry, if you bothered to read the link I provided, you would have learned that Trump did indeed make staff sign NDAs, but those who signed them knew they couldn't be enforced. The response was basically "whatever, let's see you enforce.
It was already 3 versus 1, but they still have no confidence in her to let go it alone without help. For all we know she could have just been repeating the feed in her ear. Or maybe it was just a continuous loop of "Don't cackle. Don't cackle...."
What if sending a few cruse missiles into Mexico killed a few hundred cartel animals, and resulted in greatly reducing the 100,000+ American deaths per year, which is the equivalent of two Vietnam wars every year? Most of our problems and those of the rest of the world is a lack of courage by good people and too much by evil ones. I can't think of a good reason to avoid killing cartels as long as you do it good and hard. Don't kick the snake. Cut off it's head.
He's learned. His appointments will be more JD Vance guys. Doug Burgum to Energy.
What possible qualifications does Doug Burgum have to be DOE Secretary? Oh right, Trump made Rick Perry Secretary of the DOE, so Trump really doesn't give a shit whether his appointees are qualified for the job.
What possible qualifications does Doug Burgum have to be DOE Secretary?
What possible qualifications does Pete Buttigieg have to be Secretary of Transportation?
Not firing someone in order to prevent their public criticism seems more like bribery than censorship.
Didn't your mom every tell you "two wrongs (in this case three) don't make a right."
Nope, Narciso. NN's 12:49 comment is till up as of now
John Henry
Field Marshal Freder has now added Energy Policy to his portfolio.
Freder, I assume you are very experienced in the Hospitality Industry and other service industries, for example, "In N Out Burger."
best would be Comey stuck on an economy coach flight.
best would be Comey stuck on an economy coach flight.
Or covert extortion the other direction.
Freder. I know what jobs you didn't have.
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