That sounds wrong, but at least they are all retired.
What is the substance of the defense? "The group accused Trump of leaving Biden and Harris with no plans to execute a withdrawal and little time to do so."
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१९७ टिप्पण्या:
Lol! Will they be publishing a letter in a full page ad in the NYT in late October?
Pathetic but predictable.
"The group accused Trump of leaving Biden and Harris with no plans to execute a withdrawal and little time to do so."
Then you delay the withdrawal.
Leadership at its best.
"It's somebody else's fault!"
The group accused Trump of leaving Biden and Harris with no plans to execute a withdrawal and little time to do so.
I'll have to check the calendar, but I'm pretty sure the Biden-Harris administration was in office at the time.
Harris' campaign just published their first policy paper.
"Blank is all Trump's fault."
(Fill in the blank.)
Good leaders (including generals), when faced with no prior plans, come up with their own plans.
The logical conclusion: Biden and Harris (and these generals) are not good leaders.
Was it Trump that decided to abandon Bagram Airfield and use Kabul as the evacuation point?
So if you are not prepared to do it properly, maybe don't withdraw?
If Biden did not like the plan for withdrawal he could easily have postponed it and demanded that the Pentagon draw up a new one. We had been there for something like 20 years, but we had to withdraw tomorrow? Biden rushed the withdrawal for PR purposes all the rest is B/S. General Meade took over command of the Army of the Potomac while Lee's army was headed North into PA. One can argue that chance played a big part in Meade's victory at Gettysburg nevertheless with a lot less warning than Biden had his army was able to hand Lee a stunning defeat and Meade gets the credit. The charge that the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle was Trump's fault is absurd. Biden was in command and he screwed the pooch.
A group of 51 former senior intelligence officials said…Hunter Biden’s laptop was Russian disinformation.
Speaking for several retired military members, we don’t believe the retired generals and admirals. We saw them lie all too often when we were on active duty.
It's simply not a credible assertion that there was no plan. Reputable armies are always preparing for contingencies. The withdrawal from Afghanistan had been a long-stated policy goal, and in fact had already gone through a few different down-sizing stages. They conducted these without a plan? They had no longer term, fleshed-out concept for a continuation of that policy objective? And now they want this to be Trump's fault?
But Trump doesn't write the plan - the military does. What've all you boys at the Pentagon been doing with your time, since you've been there through both administrations and are both responsible and accountable for running your own business?
Smells a lot like Steele dossiers and Russia, Russia, Russia, except this time there are dead Americans.
I recall that Biden had to overrule objections to carry out the withdrawal.
The Colonel has a statement about Biden /Harris
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2024/09/09/the-democrats-open-border-has-started-a-countdown-to-a-bloodbath-n2644474
Take his advice and you might survive.
They're angling for a job in the Harris administration. What do they have to lose? Harris wins, they get a job. Trump wins, no loss because they weren't going to be hired in a Trump administration to begin with.
They're a disgrace to the uniform.
51 former intelligence officers will be held in reserve.
"The group accused Trump of leaving Biden and Harris with no plans to execute a withdrawal and little time to do so."
This would only matter if the withdrawal was absolutely tied to an arbitrary date, rather than being conditions-based, as reportedly Trump's plan was. If you don't have a workable plan, you don't just say "Fuck it" and do some half-assed operation anyway, consequences be damned. You figure out a plan that works and execute it on a timetable that also works.
Biden and Harris supported the withdrawal, controlled the ultimate timetable and execution strategy of the final withdrawal, and Biden set the withdrawal date to be September 11st before he precipitously accelerated it to end of August due to deteriorations on the ground.
In the months before, Biden and Harris were on camera repeatedly reassuring the stability and plan of the withdraw.
I get that Trump started it in 2020 - that's fair. But Biden/Harris aren't saying they didnt' want to withdraw, they are blaming Trump for a withdrawal strategy they owned for SEVEN MONTHS and claimed to be doing well.
And the issue was what happened in the final months - not what happened in 2020.
The withdrawal from Afghanistan was one of the few things I gave Biden/Harris credit for. Military operations are often chaotic, especially withdrawals. I gave Biden/Harris credit for having the courage to get it over with even if it wasn't executed perfect. The criticisms seem overblown to me.
But now, they tell me it was actually Trump's decision and plan. Ok, so now I'll give Trump the credit for the Afghanistan withdrawal.
Also, doesn't the Pentagon have contingency plans and contingency contingency plans for every possible set of circumstances?
Also, doesn't the Pentagon have contingency plans and contingency contingency plans for every possible set of circumstances?
I have no doubt that there was a plan, but that it was rejected by the Biden folks.
Their main issues are rehashing the Suckers and Losers hoax and whining about John McCain not being lionized by Trump for the ten billionth time.
Hmmm...they're ginning up a complaint that the withdrawal from Afghanistan was mismanaged, leading to deaths of American soldiers. I don't know the particular circumstances of our long-belated withdrawal from Afghanistan, or the typical circumstances of withdrawals from battlegrounds, in general, so I cannot defend the Biden administration, but neither can I condemn them. They, at least, WITHDREW us from a 20-year crime, a pointless and unjustifed war in which many American soldiers were killed and maimed, as well as uncounted numbers of residents of Afghanistan. Trump, boasting he didn't start any wars, let this one continue. How many soldiers died in Afghanistan DURING the four years of Trump's term in office? Let's rightly condemn ALL the US politicians who are in any way complicit in this disaster.
And, why isn't anyone serving arrest warrants on Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rice, et. al, for intentionally lying us into invading Iraq on false claims Iraq had or was close to having nuclear weapons, which he would either use against us directly or hand over to al-Qaeda to do the job against us. (Iraq was NOT allied with al-Qaeda).
It's all hypocrisy, all the time.
They had six months.
Blaming Trump is transparently weak and craven.
They intentionally made the final date 11 September, for the symbolism. They had from Jan to August to plan--they rescinded or changed pretty much all of the Trump executive orders that were in effect when they took office but someone this one decision was sacrosanct and couldn't be changed?
Just utter horseshit, as usual. When they thought she'd get credit the line was Harris' contribution was vital to the success of the operation (she was the "last one in the room," etc) but now that it's correctly seen as debacle the line is Harris had nothing to do with it and it's all Trump's fault anyway.
Just shameless, ridiculous bullshit. Get used to it, I guess!
Of course, Trump did leave behind plans for dealing with the border, energy independence, Iran, and several other pressing issues. How did that work out?
Aggie said...
But Trump doesn't write the plan - the military does. What've all you boys at the Pentagon been doing with your time, since you've been there through both administrations and are both responsible and accountable for running your own business?
---------
Exactly. This is more election interference by the IC. A house cleaning is much needed.
I kinda recall something back in the day whereby Trump had asserted that we would withdraw but the generals (i.e., these generals) refused to actually prepare a plan because they did not agree with withdrawing - deep state, gravy train, whatever reason.
That's what happens when the Pentagon stops planning military operations and starts planning DEI procedures
Maybe they shouldn't have stolen the election then. If you can't take the heat, don't set the kitchen on fire.
Signatories
Admiral Steve Abbot, USN (Ret)
Brigadier General Steven M. Anderson, USA (Ret)
Major General Peter S. Cooke, USA (Ret)
General Larry R. Ellis, USA (Ret) Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps
John L. Estrada, USMC (Ret), former Ambassador Major
General Randy Manner, USA (Ret) Vice Admiral
Dennis V. McGinn, USN (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
'General Lloyd W. Newton, USAF (Ret)
'Major General Marilyn Quagliotti, USA (Ret) '
Rear Admiral Michael E. Smith, USN (Ret)
Their defense is that Trump didn't tell Harris what to do.
exactly. Or take the last troops out, fly pride flags on the embassy, then decide to send troops back to evacuate the embassy.
Note, no mention of the Americans left behind, the equipment left, or the millions the Biden/Harris is sending them monthly.
You can't be the last gal in the room with Biden after his decision to evacuate only on alternate Tuesday's. Last I heard, the Admin was calling the evac a tremendous success...
A comment from a The Federalist podcast with Lieutenant General Sami Sadat, former deputy commander of the Afghan ground forces and deputy chief of staff of the Afghan National Army.
"So we had communication with the US Army, But the US Army was absolutely not ready for hearing this order because they knew that the Doha agreement was conditions based, as President Trump mentioned at times and times again, and the conditions have not changed, and the Taliban broke all the articles of the Doha commitment to the US. So we needed to go back to war and continue to fight. President Biden not only didn't coordinate or communicate or consult with US, but he also completely disregarded what Pentagon and the CIA was recommending. So it was just one sided, very vindictive order, if I can put it this way, to just pull out no matter what happens."
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/afghanistans-last-commander-on-the-consequences/id983782306?i=1000665468497
Biden went forth without even thought to the conditions the Doha agreement had.
The Army does plans for everything. Plans always need updating. Embassies all have NEO plans.
google "Rainbow" Plans. Plan Red was our plan against the Brits prior to WW2
It's all Trump's fault! After-all - he was president the last 4 years.
Trump was supposed to have a plan? Who knew! I thought it was the generals that were supposed to give plans to the President, not the other way around. I guess they were all just sitting around in the hallway with their hats in their hands, waiting to be told how to do their jobs.
yes. And "No plan survives contact with the enemy"...
Pretzel logic. The only defense the left has left.
Every general in the Pentagon from the time Trump announced the withdrawals into the time he withdrawal began deserves to be court martialed for dereliction of duty. If retired, they can and and should be brought back into uniform to stand for the court martial.
"The group accused Trump of leaving Biden and Harris with no plans to execute a withdrawal and little time to do so."
Absurd.
A self-identified list of folks who need to lose any military pensions.
Did someone already say "Pathetic but predictable." ??
Why yes. and YES.
"So if you are not prepared to do it properly, maybe don't withdraw?"
Exactly. But Biden was withdrawing come hell or water. And the predictable result happened.
The democrat party has become the party of war. One big reason they're not getting my vote.
note, only 2 are Generals of the Army/Marines
That must be one of the 'secret' questions on the CNN debate sheet.
Why would they rely on a plan put forth by a modern Hitler?
Sounds like a devastating indictment of the Harris / Biden administration. Maybe the generals are actually Trump supporters
Biden/Kamala and their radical inept handlers - a pack of grifting money whores - Do not and/ did not care about the poor management of the withdrawal.
They simply do not care. So - roll out the blame and the BS.
If they're retired, then how would they know? The DOJ should be looking in to this.
Nah! This is the same as the Cheney's endorsing Harris. The DC Establishment is starting to sweat and worry what might happen if Trump gets back in office. This bunch of 4 star clowns knows that a whole lot of high paying defense industry consulting jobs could just up and disappear over night if he wins.
The withdrawal from Afghanistan was one of the few things I gave Biden/Harris credit for. ... Ok, so now I'll give Trump the credit for the Afghanistan withdrawal.
I can respect this. If you feel you must support the Democrats, for whatever reasons, at least recognize what they've become and keep their feet to the fire when they screw up, as political parties inevitably do. Don't become useful idiots repeating the propaganda to stay in favor with the cool kids.
And here I thougth that the incompetence of our military was because of the trannies being put in leadership. Who knew they have always been incompetent.
So the military is just like our political leadership. They do not represent the thoughts of any of their underlings.
Well, General Powell has been dead for almost three years, but if the dead can routinely vote, an arrest warrant is a small incremental step.
The reason for electing Biden was the expectation that someone with 50 years' experience in politics and government would have the wisdom to see that, and the foresight and courage to postpone the withdrawal, but with Biden none of that was the case.
They had to burn their credibility to save their credibility.
Any chance one of those generals declared the Hunter laptop was a Russia disinformation campaign?
"The group accused Trump of leaving Biden and Harris with no plans to execute a withdrawal and little time to do so."
That's funny. I thought that Biden became commander and chief when he was sworn it.
Here are the first three paragraphs of an article in yesterday’s New York Post:
WASHINGTON — President Biden was so hellbent on getting out of Afghanistan that he rebuked any advice to the contrary, ignored the pleas of the Afghan government and disregarded objections from US allies.
That was the one of the main takeaways from the House Foreign Affairs Committee’s more than two-year investigation into America’s chaotic, deadly Afghanistan withdrawal, according to a blistering report released Sunday.
“During his decades-long tenure as a Delaware US senator, eight years as vice president of the United States and nearly four years as president, Mr. Biden has demonstrated distrust of America’s military experts and advisors and has prioritized politics and his personal legacy over America’s national security interests,” the roughly 350-page report asserted.
I note that this lets Harris off the hook — except that in explicitly tying herself to the withdrawal as “the last person in the room” she places herself firmly onto the hook.
Any chance one of those generals said Saddam Husain had WMD?
Given everything that the Bidenites said about Trump and Trump's instability and irresponsibility, Biden could have done whatever he wanted with Trump's planned withdrawal. He wasn't going to just tear up Trump's commitment to withdrawal, but he could put the deadline for withdrawal whenever he wanted and arrange the details as he saw fit. The Democrats and the media would defend, support, and justify his decisions. Republicans would "pounce" (ineffectively), but if things had worked out well, Biden's choices would have been vindicated. As it is, they aren't, and the blame is on his shoulders and Harris's and on their handlers.
They were too busy letting China know that they wouldn't let Trump nuke them.
“ How many soldiers died in Afghanistan DURING the four years of Trump's term in office?’
“According to the Pentagon’s Defense Casualty Analysis System, which tracks annual casualty data, 65 soldiers died in “hostile action” during the four years of the Trump administration, versus 13 under Biden through 2022, the last year tabulated. The Washington Monthly’s Zach Marcus reviewed combat-related deaths announced in Pentagon press releases over the previous two years and identified three additional hostile action deaths, for a total of 16. That’s a 75 percent decline.”
WaPo
"Mobilizing"
LOL - Such icky Authoritarian pro-Democrat hack speak.
"The group accused Trump of leaving Biden and Harris with no plans to execute a withdrawal and little time to do so."
Biden and Harris managed to discard Trump's plans and develop their own for dealing with the border. And fracking. And oil pipelines. And on and on. But the Afghanistan withdrawl? "Trump made me do it"? Really? What are they- eight years old?
This appears to be an admission that they did, indeed, screw things up.
I don't recall it being sold that way by the Biden-Harris Administration and their Toadies in the media.
That truth will not filter thru the loyal leftist brain.
Note, Estrada isn’t a retired general or admiral, he retired an E-9 in 2007 and later served on the Joe Biden presidential transition Agency Review Team.
Note, Steve Abbot retired in 2000. He’s a known never Trumper.
Note, Steven M. Anderson retired in 2010. He’s an environmentalist.
Note, Peter Cooke retired in 2012.
Note, all these guys signed a letter repeating the debunked story that Trump called fallen heroes “suckers” and “losers.”
Trust no one above O-6.They are all politicians. Remember that?
Dear Leftists, Trump did not start any wars. We know this ties you in knots.
Trump was not president when Biden decided to withdrawal from Afghanistan. Biden forged ahead, with Kamala in tow - against the advice of many allies and experts - and the Afghan government.
That you all blame Trump - is more proof of your rotten brains.
The corrupt FBi used the words "Hallmarks of Russian disinformation"
BS - to give them cover.
Shorter version of the generals/admirals- "Who you gonna believe- us or your lying ass calendars?"
Not one vote will change, not one vote will be added or detracted from the already decided voters for Trump or Harris. This may, however, add a million or so mail in ballots to the Harris tally in PA, WI, MI, GA....
65 soldiers died in “hostile action” during the four years of the Trump administration, versus 13 under Biden through 2022, the last year tabulated.
So an average of 16.25 deaths for each year under Trump, and 16 for the one year under Biden.
I saw that excuse on Twitter on the anniversary, while they were badmouthing his visit to Arlington. "Trump didn't leave us a good plan" isn't the killer comeback they think it is. It's the "jerkstore" level comeback. Too lame too late.
Cook and Inga. What a pair of sharp minds !
Well they claimed at the time it couldn't be changed. Even though Trump said there were benchmarks to meet "or else."
It was widely reported at the time that Milley etc cautioned Joe to postpone but that Biden insisted they be out by 9/11. That was his self-imposed goal. He was proud of it. He called it a fantastic success afterwards.
Generals and Admirals are DEI hires today.
100% agree w/101. Trump is upsetting the applecart. And there are a lot of worms in those apples.
Trust no one above O-6.They are all politicians.
My cousin is a retired Marine Major. He got out after 20 years because of the politics. One of his sons got out as a Marine Captain because of the politics.
Both are politically moderate to conservative, but found the politics to be clearly left of center.
Obama pretty much emptied the Pentagon of planners. What he left were the DEI types.
"Retired." Of course, as we saw with the retired CIA people who claimed that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation, many of them were on the CIA payroll as consultants.
Another window (6 months) missed. But what do you expect if it takes her 45 minutes to figure out there is nothing worth watching on Netflix?
"You know, um, so I'm a Libra my husband is a Libra, um, and it's so funny, he'll talk, Doug, he'll talk about the fact that that it's the Libra in us where we will sit on the couch in front of the TV with the switcher for like 45 minutes debating which Netflix show should we start streaming, and we weigh the pros and the cons of each, and then by the time we're done, we're ready to go to bed. Right. You missed your window. The window just shut, because we are just sitting there debating like, okay, well, on the one hand, do we want to see comedy or drama. We both love, you know, sci-fi, right, anyway, um, yeah astrology."
It's all hypocrisy, all the time.
Cook and Inga have completely zeroed out on self awareness. You two are so pathetic and stupid.
As I recall, prior to the actual withdrawal, Biden wanted to distance the withdrawal, which had been negotiated under the Trump administration, from Trump so he could take credit for it himself. He delayed the withdrawal from the agreed upon date, I think May, until Sept. 11th, 9-11. He wanted a big show.
The Taliban viewed the delay as a violation of the agreement negotiated with the US. Foreign troops were still in their country after the deadline. To them, the agreement was off. They started fighting again and they won.
Whose job was it to make a plan for the withdrawal? It was these same generals. But these Generals were against the withdrawal. They basically decided not to make a plan in order to make Trump look bad and make withdrawal look like a bad idea. But Biden wanted to take the credit and he and he got what he wanted.
If there was no plan, it's on these Generals more than anyone.
Oh sure, now they mobilize to defend something...
From the Axios article: Ten generals and admirals are mobilizing to defend Vice President Kamala Harris from Republican attempts to tie her to the chaotic 2021 U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan.
I guess "attempts to tie" is the new "Republican's pounce". She bragged about being the last one in the room with Biden and was comfortable with the decision. She tied herself to it, but the media has no shame.
Abbott vouched for biden in 2020 has no good judgement
@ Inga re: 10:31am
The 13 killed that you mentioned died at Abbey Gate all from a single suicide bomber during the botched withdrawal.
The reason the killing had stopped before that was because under the agreement Trump negotiated, if one single US soldier was killed by the Taliban, the agreement was off. So, you have to give some credit for the low casualty rate to Trump for negotiating an effective cease fire.
"So an average of 16.25 deaths for each year under Trump, and 16 for the one year under Biden."
That math is too advanced for Inga.
Biden was President at the time.
Harris was 'the last person in the room' when the decision was made.
Their decision, not Trump's.
What, they can't come up with a better plan in 7 months? Or the generals, which they've found to blame the man who wasn't President?
Aren't the military leadership supposed to come up with workable plans?
They could only find 10? They found 51 for the laptop!
Newton is a vp at pratt and whitney follow the money
That would require Inga to recognize facts- something Inga refuses to do on principle.
What Michael K said. Obama fired the warriors in preparation for the transformation.
Inga et al https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA
“Generals and Majors always
Seem so unhappy 'less they got a war”
The chaotic and incompetent withdrawal from Afghanistan invited aggression from Russia, Iran, and China.
Biden-Harris is like Edward Longshanks' son in the movie Braveheart. The mere sight of them encourages our enemies.
The war Joey voted for.
Trumps fault
I had to come up with better OPORDS when I was in ROTC.
A phrase from my past comes to mind. "That's Tuesday's decision". Uttered a few days beforehand, it was a message to think about just when you were going to take an action--or not take an action. And you didn't decide or act before "Tuesday."" Slow Joe was President from January 2021 on--he had four years in front of him, and he could decide when, or if, he was going to do something. Nothing was forcing him to skedaddle from Kabul on that particular day. If he hadn't had time to make a plan acceptable to him, why didn't he wait until "Tuesday".
Biden was not following a Trump timetable. He took seven months as it was. This move will give you a sense of the incompetent toadies who are and have been running our military.
Biden was not following a Trump timetable. He took seven months as it was. This move will give you a sense of the incompetent toadies who are and have been running our military.
As I understand it, the Doha agreement was scheduled for the U.S. to withdraw on May 1, 2021, roughly thee months after Trump left office. Biden rightly postponed our withdrawal because the Taliban continually broke the conditions of the agreement. Then he got antsy to withdraw before 9-11 and pushed the withdrawal forward.
From Fact-check.org :
“Biden delayed the May 1 withdrawal date that he inherited. But ultimately his administration pushed ahead with a plan to withdraw by Aug. 31, despite obvious signs that the Taliban wasn’t complying with the agreement and had a stated goal to create an “Islamic government”.
Any discussion about what Trump would have done after he left office in January 2021 is pure speculation because he was no longer President.
This is all on Biden.
they should ask these retired Navy personnel, what THEIR opinion of astrology is?
1. Biden was never a fan of the Afghanistan conflict
2. These War Pigs (10 Generals here) thought Trump's decision would be overturned
3. These War Pigs sat on their fat butts waiting for Biden to "fix it" and keep the troops there
4. These War Pigs were stunned when Biden said get 'em out of there
5. These War Pigs are 99.999999% certain to be Party members, and acting as corrupt puppets.
Fire the 51 lapdogs for Hunter's laptop for being incompetent fools who cannot be trusted with national security info / spy data.
Fire these 10 War Pigs for being incompetent liars covering up their own inaction.
For Inga: During Obama's term in office there were 1454 KIA in Afghanistan, during Trump's term there were 46; prior to Obama taking office- from 2001-2008- there were 410 KIA. As we know Biden managed to abandon and have 13 KIA in less than 7 months in office. It's a close call but Obama wins the KIAs per month title with 15 followed by Biden's 7 (13*7/12). Trump is a piker @ 1.6 per month. Of course this is a demonstration of the absurdity of "body counts" that were so popular during the Democratic administrations that brought us Viet Nam. However, Inga, it does show once again that the Democrats are a bloody thirsty lot.
And what does retired mean in military-speak? For the upper ranks, it means contractor, double-dipping at fifty times the cost.
if we had one journalist left in this country, we would know this.
Maybe ask Alex Jones.
But it was such a good photo-op...
Premature withdrawal a la Obama... and where Obama gifted over 100 billion dollars in disputed funds to Iran, Biden gifted tens of billions in state of the art military hardware to the Taliban equitable and inclusive in ethnic Springs.
Retired, huh. That's one way to mitigate progress in an inflationary climate. Credibility bullshit?
let's try to post that a little more better:
1) Admiral Steve Abbot, USN (Ret)
2) Brigadier General Steven M. Anderson, USA (Ret)
3) Major General Peter S. Cooke, USA (Ret)
4) General Larry R. Ellis, USA (Ret)
5) Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps John L. Estrada, USMC (Ret), former Ambassador
6) Major General Randy Manner, USA (Ret)
7) Vice Admiral Dennis V. McGinn, USN (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
8) General Lloyd W. Newton, USAF (Ret)
9) Major General Marilyn Quagliotti, USA (Ret)
10) Rear Admiral Michael E. Smith, USN (Ret)
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25106804-nsl4a-statement
The Biden Harris regime has a resume full of failure = Afghanistan, immigration and border security, the economy that has walloped everyone except the wealthy, foreign policy, anti semitism, and censorship. FUBAR.
How long does it take to decide to keep the air base until the end?
5 seconds.
I would change the word "several" to "most".
Right. There was NO must-do-it-by date. You delay until you have a plan that will be successful. "Oh no, Trump backed us into a corner!"
The corrupt FBI (Hi Google!) used the words "Hallmarks of Russian Disinformation"
Hunter's laptop is real. Biden family international grift is real. Many on the left in power take part in that same sort of pay-to-play grifting - which is why they cover for the crook Biden family.
Without a pride of lions in parade, the Obama cum Biden regime were hoisted on its albinophobic banner.
"The group accused Trump of leaving Biden and Harris with no plans to execute a withdrawal and little time to do so."
1: It's the job of those Admirals and Generals, and their staff, to draw up the plans
2: If the available plans aren't good enough, it's the job of the President and Vice President to NOT execute. That would be Biden and "last person in the room" Harris
3: IIRC, there was a Trump plan, and it involved leaving Baghram Airbase last, so the US would have total control over the exit.
But Biden and Harris canceled that
tl;dr:
Not Trump's fault, Biden/Harris fault, Biden/Harris fault
Trump had delayed the withdrawal a number of times for obvious reasons. Biden, who was quick to undo every Trump order, sloppily forced the withdrawal and resulting chaos and death of Americans. Now he blames Trump? These generals and admirals are full of shit.
Yeah just this ONE thing they decided "Trump's plan" was the way to go. Sure. Although I'm sure moron Harris voters, who she's counting on, will buy it.
Explain why airlifting 120,000 likely un-vetted people is such a glorious success.
so they are admitting not reelecting Trump was mistake
Joey voted for that war. Made speeches. Trump didnt vote for that war.
Of course its Trumps fault.
It seems like most of them resigned early in the century and went on to serve or support Obama. Were any of them still in the military in 2020 and informed about the Afghanistan situation?
Also, what about this "General Randy Manner"? Was he #MeToo'ed?
LIFO FIFO FILO LOLO cackle sniff what is different?
As I recall Inga was in the comments of a post about the rhubarb concerning Trump's attendance at the commemoration of the soldiers killed at the Abbey Gate attack complaining that he didn't leave enough forces in Afghanistan to secure it, and now she's buddying up with Cookie regarding Trump *not* completing the withdrawal.
General Randy Manner. Heh. Either a Clinton or a Trump guy.
The WAR was 20 years of debacle,2459 of Veterans military deaths, oct 2001 -aug 2021 ..who started the fuck up? This was not a 3 month debacle... neo cons wanted WAR and fucked it up big time,, all the rest residuals and its still a fucked up place now...I served 65-72 under another fuck GULF OF TONKIN lie.... THE WAR PIGS are never satisfied. People who didn't serve are just armchair quarterbacks. WAR is never pretty or organized,,,READ THE BOOK!
Hopefully the military who actually had a plan that Biden ignored will speak out.
Lol. Those uniformed bureaucrats couldn't win war against anybody on earth except maybe Grand Fenwick. (IYKYK) Screw their considered military opinion. Add West Point & Annapolis list of US governmental institutions that need to be raised right to the ground.
why Navy? do US have any ships on landbased?
The Navy has Seabees and Hospital Corpsmen that deploy with the Marines on land. My daughter was in Camp Leatherneck, Afghanistan as a FMF Corpsman for an entire year.
Also, the Marines are part of the Navy.
“A component of the Department of the Navy, the Marine Corps maintains amphibious and ground units for contingency and combat operations. On, above and below the water, the Navy is America's forward-deployed force and is a major deterrent to aggression around the world.”
"Our service members and their loved ones deserve a President with the temperament and track record to serve as commander-in-chief. One who is willing to make tough decisions, who takes accountability, and who always has our back. That leader is Kamala Harris."
Good Lord.
@Dicky Dau, the neocons of neocons, warmonger of warmongers, Dick Cheney, just endorsed Woke Salad Kammie. My how the worm has turned.
"One who is willing to make tough decisions"
But she's a libra!
I added retirement date to all the signatories. Notice anything. None of them were serving during the Trump, let alone Biden administration. Also, a quick look at their experience doesn't show any significance expertise in Afghanistan. So out of the hundreds (thousands?) of retired military officers, this is the best they could do?
Admiral Steve Abbot, USN (Ret 2000)
Brigadier General Steven M. Anderson, USA (Ret 2010)
Major General Peter S. Cooke, USA (Ret 2012)
General Larry R. Ellis, USA (Ret 2004)
Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps John L. Estrada, USMC (Ret 2007), former Ambassador
Major General Randy Manner, USA (Ret 2012)
Vice Admiral Dennis V. McGinn, USN (Ret 2002), former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
General Lloyd W. Newton, USAF (Ret 2000)
Major General Marilyn Quagliotti, USA (Ret 2007)
Rear Admiral Michael E. Smith, USN (Ret 2015)
Biden and Harris on Afghanistan pullout: "Trump drew up plans for this. We had no other choice."
Biden & Harris on Trump's 'Remain in Mexico' policy: "F*** that. Open the borders."
I've always assumed the $billions in equipment was left for the Afghan Army, which promptly dissolved. Am I wrong? Trump said recently he wasn't going to leave any behind.
To be fair, the 51 partisans said Hunter's laptop had "all the hallmarks of Russian disinformation." I guess they forgot about the dick pics.
They looked into it. Those were definitely Russian dicks.
A big problem was always going to be getting that equipment out of Afghanistan. Giving up Bagram made it impossible.
"The group accused Trump of leaving Biden and Harris with no plans to execute a withdrawal and little time to do so."
Huh? Trump had a timeline for the withdrawal.. Biden accelerated the timeline cause he said he would get them out ASAP. And thus thousands left behind. Billions in miliary equipment left behind. American citizens left behind. 13 soldiers DIED during that withdrawal. And it was not Trump's fault. It was Biden and his Generals for doing a cut-and-run.
I also know some people who chose not to reup because of the politics.
Getting it out of there was always going to be tough.
Werent we told this was the good war by obama yet we retreatsd from every hard won border post between 2007 -2011
You're not mentioning the casualties during the Bush/Cheney two terms. They, after all, started the baseless criminal wars. Trump can act as if "not starting any new war" is an accomplishment, but he let the existing one continue for no good reason for the whole of his term. If he had withdrawn US forces during his four years, those who died under his four years and those who died during Biden's withdrawal of forces from Afghanistan would, presumably, still all or mostly still be alive. Trump can't escape complicity and responsibility.
"Right. There was NO must-do-it-by date. You delay until you have a plan that will be successful. 'Oh no, Trump backed us into a corner!'" We were there 20 years, when we needn't (and shouldn't) have been there at all...EVER. Bush/Cheney, Obama/Biden, Trump/Pense are ALL guilty of either initiating a criminal war or maintaining it. Faulting Biden for the casualities during our withdrawal is not misplaced, but emphasizing it as somehow a greater crime than that initiated and carried on by the three preceding administrations is simply dishonest, blame-shifting, and a purposeful erasure of the twenty years of the criminal US war. Bush/Cheney and Obama/Biden are the greater war criminals, and Trump/Pense, and Biden (in his role as POTUS) the lesser--but certainly still complicit--criminals. I can't see any realistic blame for which Harris can be held responsible. It's just more dishonest blame-shifting which is part of the backbone of Republican governance.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr
@RobertKennedyJr
Liberals, take note: If you support Kamala Harris, you are now on the same side as Dick Cheney.
What is the substance of the defense?
Well, one rather important point is that the vice president is not the commander in chief and, in fact, has absolutely zero power to do anything beyond be president of the Senate, break tie votes and formally preside over the receiving and counting of electoral ballots cast in presidential elections. None of that has to do with military action or foreign policy (or the border).
Despite what Trumpists might argue, the historical characterization of the office is correct, that the vice presidency "is not worth a bucket of warm piss."
Sad to see General Lloyd "Fig" Newton, USAF on the list. A fighter pilot and the first black demonstration pilot for the USAF Thunderbirds (1977-78). He was my hero back then. Not surprised, however, because he was a vocal supporter of Obama during his presidency.
Meanwhile, the genesis of any disaster in the withdrawal itself is Trump's initial September 10 isolationist Run Away policies, reminiscent of past Democrat "U.S. out of everywhere" policies.
Even if the withdrawal had been flawless, Afghanistan today would still be Hell, effectively tossing the U.S. effort there down the toilet. Whether Trump is responsible for the withdrawal deaths, he certainly deserves credit for making the sacrifice of many years of American lives worthless.
The problem with this argument is the fact Harris boasted about being the last person the room with Biden when the decision was made. It was an attempt to boost her bona fides as CiC material.
If you don't want to take responsibility for somebody else's decisions, don't try to claim credit for them.
Uniformly Unexpected.
Vodka-dick Commies!
Uh Mark,
Kamala said that she was the last person in the room with Uncle Joe when the Afghanistan withdrawal decision was made.
Cook " I can't see any realistic blame for which Harris can be held responsible. It's just more dishonest blame-shifting which is part of the backbone of Republican governance. "
So she was just pretending to be VP the past three years ? The usual rubbish from Cook.
ABC, from Cook's link, agrees that she was lying about her role as "the last person in the room" when the decision was made.
@Robert Cook you need to read more carefully. During GWB's tenure in office (2001-2008) there were 410 KIA. That works out to 4.27 per month. You will also note, as many above has pointed out, Trump took the initiative to work out a deal with the Taliban for the orderly withdrawal of US troops under certain conditions. The Taliban failed to meet their conditions which extended the deadline for removal of troops. You need to remember, also, that we had allies in Afghanistan that Trump, unlike Biden, was trying to avoid leaving unprotected. Focusing on Biden's 13 USA KIAs ignores the price those Afghanis paid for Biden's precipitous withdrawal. Try as you might to hide it Biden's performance was a disaster. (and that's without mentioning the millions of war making equipment that withdrawal left behind.) All in all, though Biden's performance was not the worst in military history it easily ranks in the top 10.
More Lefty Mark bullshit. Read a book or two.
No Michael, it wasn't going to be tough. Most of the equipment could have been loaded at Bagram and airlifted, most likely to Germany. We got it in there, we could have gotten it out. All it would have taken was some decent planning and time. Biden's performance was disgraceful and history will confirm that.
Here's one for Lefty Mark.
Have the generals tapped Tracy Chapman to lead them with her song
‘Talkin' 'bout a Revolution’?
Of course Trump is responsible for the deaths under his command. That comes with being Commander in Chief. As I noted above he was a piker compared to Obama under whose command there were 1454 KIAs. What the hell was the "September 10 runaway" . Is it a figment of your vivid imagination, or is it some historical moment that none of the rest of us know about? So are you hinting that since we withdrew and made our sacrifices worthless that we should have, instead, stayed in Afghanistan and really gotten serious about defeating the Taliban?
If these guys mostly, if not all, retired before 2016, then what direct knowledge would they have of planning for end of hostilities in a theater of operations after 2020?
This is cover, just like the 51 intelligence "experts" who declared the hunter laptop russian propaganda. This will give her and the democrats cover to lie about their responsibility for murdering the 13 soldiers. Dollars to donuts this will be used in the debate by kamala to avoid responsibility.
Appeal to Authority.
Cook. You have a memory like a seive. This was all explained to you before. In great detail. You don't learn because you don't want to learn.
Leftists don’t have brains.
They had a couple of years to come up with a plan. That's on them for not getting that together.
Minnesota Farm Guy. Correct. The Armed forces have a plan for everything. And I mean everything. The rule of thumb goes; If it took six months to build up, it will take at least six months to take down and ship out. The armed forces have to account for all that equipment.
The Biden administration screwed up big time.
MFG. Mark makes shit up. Typical Dem.
And Vlad Putin.
It is. The Biden-Harris administration decided to go without a plan. That's what they said - there was no plan and they said "Go." That's on them.
"Kamala said that she was the last person in the room with Uncle Joe when the Afghanistan withdrawal decision was made."
And there's only one reason to say that; to express support for the action.
Unfortunately, this is another in an astonishingly long line of relatively recent (past 24 months) hopelessly stupid comments by Virginia Lawyer Mark and NOT Dumb Lefty Mark.
Virginia Lawyer Mark, like Wannabe pro-DeSantis Online Influencer AMDG have, in their intense bitter anger over DeSantis being obliterated in the republican primary despite full lefty Lawfare support & $250M in globalist Usual Suspect campaign cash & Full GOPe support, etc, veered completely over Rhetorical And Logic Cliff and disappeared into Idiocy Ravine.
What was your MOS/rate, dearie?
It was Biden's call to pull out the aviation contractors that enabled the Afghan National Defense forces to maneuver and keep their outposts supplied in the field. Biden was warned about this, but did it anyway. The aviation community was sounding the alarm but Biden did it anyway.
Bagram Air Base was critical to that effort, and Biden made the call to abandon that base in the dead of night without even informing the Afghan commander.
This article is from months prior to the final withdrawal date.
https://about.bgov.com/news/bidens-afghan-exit-alarms-contractors-who-outnumber-u-s-troops/
Biden (and Harris) own this debacle. It's only confirmed idiots trying to turdsplain this absolute fucking failure of command, and the subsequent complete absense of any kind of meaningful accountability.
This kind of incompetence and negligence is something general officers should have been resigning over rather than execute under their orders. The entire lot failed and Biden is reponsible. Harris claimed ownership by boasting about how she was the "last person in the room" and stating on camera that she felt comfortable with this decisionmaking.
The realization that 20 years had only produced a $2tn Potemkin village was not reason to delay the inevitable. On the contrary, Biden demonstrated political courage by admitting that “after 20 years, I’ve learnt the hard way that there was never a good time to withdraw US forces”. Given that this war stretched over four administrations, he deserves credit for grasping this elusive truth.
It should not go unmentioned that he extracted America from the “graveyard of empires”.
The last time there was an Afghan withdrawal the 44th Regiment of Foot had a last stand at Gandamak ck. Anyone who had read Flashman knew that this administration played part of M’Naghten and Sekundar Barnes with the DEI riddled military leadership reprising the role of Elphinstone
True. Agree with the decision to withdraw. But how it was done was down to Biden-Harris. It's on them.
If Bush/Cheney had never launched their needless and criminal war in Afghanistan, a crime that stretched to 20 years, the deaths of US personnel, and, more numerously, residents of Afghanistan would have been "0." Criticize Biden for the deaths of US service personnel during our withdrawal, sure, fine. But the larger crime derives from the decisions of the POTUS & VPOTUS of two decades ago. Obama continued the crime, as did Trump, as he did nothing to withdraw the US. Blaming Kamala Fucking Harris now for the deaths of US personnel at the end of a two decade US war is simply a transparent attempt to shift blame for the entire weight of our crime in Afghanistan on a person who was in office for the last nine months of the 20 years of the war, a person who cannot be realistically assumed to have had any active participation in the withdrawal.
"And, why isn't anyone serving arrest warrants on Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rice, et. al, for intentionally lying us into invading Iraq on false claims Iraq had or was close to having nuclear weapons, which he would either use against us directly or hand over to al-Qaeda to do the job against us. (Iraq was NOT allied with al-Qaeda)."
Shouldn't you ask Kamala that? Her admin has had no problems going after political rivals.
with Brandon reprising the role of Major-General William Elphinstone, a doddering, dithering old man
Robert : You are willfully blind and there is nothing I can do to cure it. History tells us that Afghanistan is the "graveyard of empires". That Bush and Cheney should have been aware of that and limited our involvement is obvious in hindsight. Given Cheney's latest move endorsing Harris it's not hard to see how easily he misled himself in Afghanistan. However Obama carried on in an intensive effort that cost more lives than in any other administration. Trump at least tried to arrange an orderly withdrawal and Biden, with Harris who brags(!) she was "the last person in the room" when the withdrawal decision was made have and will always have the the blame for a withdrawal that any newly commissioned USMC 2nd LT. could have planned and executed better.
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