१४ सप्टेंबर, २०२४

"Like other immigrant groups, [Haitians] hear about opportunities by word of mouth.... In this case, they were drawn by the availability of well-paying jobs."

"And they also heard that the cost of living was pretty low in Springfield. So soon, more and more Haitians arrived. And they were very attractive to employers because they had authorization to legally work in the United States. And what they have is something called temporary protected status. It’s a designation given to people from countries in turmoil, like Haiti.... So a city that had a population just under 60,000, now possibly has 80,000.... By most accounts, Springfield benefits from this influx of Haitians. They have come to work. I heard... that Haitians are coming to work on time. They’re reliable. They’re drama-free. ... They’re sending their kids to schools, schools that actually had been losing students because the city had been shrinking. And they’re leasing homes and apartments.... [N]ewly refurbished homes are sprucing up the neighborhood. They have manicured gardens, and they look a lot more cheerful than blocks where homes are still boarded up...."

From "The Story Behind 'They’re Eating the Pets'/A false claim made by Donald Trump in the presidential debate has its origins in an Ohio town," yesterday's episode of the NYT "Daily." Transcript and audio at the link (which goes to Podscribe). I'm excerpting one aspect of the story — how a city in decline revived itself by attracting businesses, which had labor needs beyond what could be supplied by the residents of the city.

But please listen to the whole thing (or at least skim the transcript) to see how the NYT presents the entire complicated problem of Springfield, Ohio, the small city that fell into the meat grinder of the American presidential election.

१७२ टिप्पण्या:

Ampersand म्हणाले...

Importing lots of cheap foreign labor. What could possibly go wrong?

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

One of the business is making the boxes for McDonald's Happy Meals, so it's part of the Big Food conspiracy.

Ralph L म्हणाले...

City Manager says no credible reports of pets harmed, therefore DEBUNKED, but he doesn't know if they have 12,000 or 20,000 Haitians.
NYT needs a speed control on their podcasts.
Sabrina: Wow.
Someone apparently leaned on the elderly woman who was afraid of the strangers in her yard, as she now thinks they're great neighbors.
It's funny how the NYT admits Trump goaded them into giving publicity to the immivasion.

Money Manger म्हणाले...

The story is straight from the NPR stylebook. So Americans who are straining to maintain their municipal fabric of education, health services, etc. under strain from a 35% population influx are secretly racists out of "Mockingbird". Who knew ?

But they didn't vote for this radical change, they are collateral damage from Biden's policies. Unfortunately, the cat-eating meme will divert focus from that fact.

Ms Jorden doesn't seem to have actually spoken to any of the Haitians, only noted their gardening skills. And Ms.Tavernise gets to prompt our emotional response by saying "Wow" a lot.

I can't wait for the next chapter. The NPR story about these exploited Haitian immigrants working in slavish conditions for sub-minimum wages (consider what skill-set they are bringing to the labor pool), and the need for federal government programs and assistance.

rehajm म्हणाले...

a ‘living wage’

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

2 lower income groups are pitted against each other. How about more attention to the businesses who created the conditions for this conflict?

Eric the Fruit Bat म्हणाले...

They, they, they, they, they, they, they.

john mosby म्हणाले...

The hard workers have always been the greater threat. Trump got eyeballs from emphasizing the rapists and killers, but it might have been the better strategy for him to keep repeating a litany of the much larger though less spectacular costs: downward pressure on wages, crowded emergency rooms, higher car insurance rates, higher local taxes because the ranch house next door is now a migrant bunkhouse for 15 dudes, losing your kid’s school’s arts program because they need the money for ESL, etc.

Also no one tries to incentivize Americans to move for jobs anymore. Classic baptist/bootlegger alliance: the racists don’t want American blacks in their towns, and the black leaders dont want to break up their voting blocs.

Hispanics, whether legal, illegal, or citizens, ignore all that and just go where the jobs are.

JSM

Kevin म्हणाले...

So you’re saying they’re proud of the lawns they produce for lawn-loving Americans?

Rocco म्हणाले...

Money Manger said...
"I can't wait for the next chapter. The NPR story about these exploited Haitian immigrants working in slavish conditions for sub-minimum wages (consider what skill-set they are bringing to the labor pool), and the need for federal government programs and assistance."

That won't happen until well after the election when it can safely be blamed on the Republicans and Trump.

lamech म्हणाले...

"2 lower income groups are pitted against each other. "
I'd generally side with my fellow "citizens"! Screw free [unfair] trade zealots and blinkered extreme libertarians who suggest being pro-fellow-citizen is economically unsound tribalism. T

"How about more attention to the businesses who created the conditions for this conflict?"
We do not elect businesses. We do elect politicians who hold responsibilities for this condition. In Springfield, Ohio ... devoting more attention to the creation of the conditions will lead you to NAFTA ,and more recently an insane application of "temporary protected status".

Kevin म्हणाले...

For 3.5 years we didn’t need to go to these places because the border was secure.

Kevin म्हणाले...

I’m guessing we needed WAY less than 20,000 Haitians to produce all the goodness cited in the report.

BUMBLE BEE म्हणाले...

More attention to Democrat voters you say?

BUMBLE BEE म्हणाले...

Inclusion as the Trojan Horse.

Christopher B म्हणाले...

Business created these conditions? Really? How about reading the third and fourth sentences again.

they had authorization to legally work in the United States. And what they have is something called temporary protected status.

Temporary Protected Status is government program that prevents deportation. How about we ask instead why our government is enabling slave traders?

Rocco म्हणाले...

Ann Althouse
"2 lower income groups are pitted against each other. How about more attention to the government policies that created the conditions for this conflict?"

FIFY

That's not to say the businesses don't need a spotlight. But they are reacting to the environment as much as the other actors are.

Christopher B म्हणाले...

I'm old enough to remember when it was all the rage among Democrats to complain about how Wal-Mart wages were being subsidized by various programs like SNAP, Section 8, and Medicaid. You know, before Sam Walton's kids started donating to NGOs like the Tides Foundation.

Christopher B म्हणाले...

Kevin, I dunno if this is what you're referring to but it works.

You know, I grew up in a neighborhood of people who were really proud of their lawn... (link to RedState)

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

"I heard... "
Give me a break.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

In this case, they were drawn by the availability of well-paying jobs.
And they also heard that the cost of living was pretty low in Springfield. So soon, more and more Haitians arrived.


Who did they hear about jobs and the cost of living from? These Haitians...in Haiti? Jobs in Springfield, Ohio.
Did the intrepid journalists of the NYT ask any Haitians, How did you get here? From an island?
I heard...the US Government flew them in. Did Congress authorize the expenditure of those funds?
Did they ask any Haitians, How did you get the money to rent a house with a yard and room for a garden? How did you save first and last months rent and a deposit? In poverty stricken Haiti? A country "in turmoil"?
I heard...the US Government is paying for their housing. And their childcare and their healthcare.
I heard the US Government is subsidizing their employment.
If they can do all those things for Haitians in order to draw them here, why couldn't they do it to help the Springfield residents already there? Or to help Americans living in poverty and turmoil in some American regions?

How are there more and better paying jobs in Springfield all of the sudden when the number of workers goes way up? How do you explain that magical defiance of the law of supply and demand?

Dixcus म्हणाले...

Ann Althouse claimed "businesses created the conditions for this conflict?"

The Democrat Party created the conditions (not the businesses). It used to be ILLEGAL to hire these people. Now it is government POLICY. Elon Musk is currently being SUED by our Democrat Party-run government for refusing to hire illegal aliens.

Stop blaming businesses, Ann. They do what's legal to do and there's nothing wrong with that. It is Democrat Policy that must be eliminated.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/spacex-wins-reprieve-us-lawsuit-alleging-anti-immigrant-bias-2023-11-09/

michaele म्हणाले...

Christopher B, in watching Kamala's answer to that first question from the local reporter about her specific plans to bring down prices, I can't believe she went into her canned response schtick about "I grew up as a middle class kid...blah, blah, blah" ...just like at the debate. It was so insulting to the people dealing with the realities of the inflation caused by Dem policies.

Rt41Rebel म्हणाले...

Either that, or they’ve watched The Simpsons.

Balfegor म्हणाले...

My suspicion is that if there's a kernel of truth behind the pet rumours, it's not that Haitian refugees are stealing pets for food, but that a cat or dog has been used as an animal sacrifice. That said, usually the burnt offering gets eaten afterwards, so pets would be pretty unusual. Still, with 20,000 refugees, there's room for a variety of practices.

Patrick Henry was right! म्हणाले...

Nope. They are shipped there by NGOs who make money. You know, human trafficking. Nobody goes to small town Ohio by word of mouth. It's asserted, without evidence.

Breezy म्हणाले...

So, what’s the feedback for these small town councils then? Gosh, we’d better not try to attract good businesses here or we may get flooded by illegal immigrants that don’t speak English and will price or squat us out of our homes and services.

Iman म्हणाले...

Oh the Inanity.

Iman म्हणाले...

Alas, poor Muttley! They ate him well-done.

pacwest म्हणाले...

Wow. You can take the girl out of the Dem , but you can't take Dem out of the girl. Businesses aren't set up as social welfare programs. Lower the COGS raise the profit. Since time began.

Dixcus म्हणाले...

Average Americans are already boycotting McDonalds on account of the price of a hamburger is $18. We can't boycott them any more than this.

Oh Yea म्हणाले...

I live just outside Dayton about 20 miles from Springfield but only go there infrequently as there is little of interest to make the trip. The biggest issue I have is that there has been little reporting in the local media of large influx of Haitian immigrants in Springfield until the current dustup. Until the bus accident that resulted in the death of the one child, I had no idea that Springfield had significant Haitian population. Even then, I had no idea they numbered between 12,000 to 20,000. There are two ways to look at this, either, in spite of the growing pains of the sudden growth, there has not been significant issue that warranted news coverage or the local is suspiciously uninterested in report any bad news associated with the immigrants. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between.

Even now it is hard to get anything resembling reliable information. You either get the fear mongering from the Trump/Vance camp or you get the "all is well" from the national media. A good example from the NYT podcast transcript is that none of these people speaking authoritatively have come to Springfield to talk to the older residents and the new immigrant. Almost all the nation news seems to be written from a few Google searches and phone calls. The results are 2nd hand reports like "By most accounts", "what I’ve heard from city officials" and "I heard from employers". While I cannot fact check all the articles there is much that doesn't ring true as a local.

It does seem the Haitians were not moved here in any mass transfer by the Biden administration. While I believe the immigration has been/will be a net benefit for the area, I can suspect there a lot of middle to lower income residents that are feeling negative effects that the local/state/federal governments aren't sufficiently addressing. But first we need honest reporting which is unlikely as it so politicized by both sides.

EdwdLny म्हणाले...

Well, in light of all of the money the clintons extorted, stole, from aid to Haiti and the debacle they perpetrated, send all of the Haitians to Chappaqua. Instead of screwing small communities and not considering their opinions, let the assholes who perpetrate this bullshit shoulder all of the costs and consequences. Another instance of liberal turd creatures crushing other citizens and communities with their asinine immigrant invasion policies.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

They just arrived, out the fog.
It's been very foggy lately, between Springfield and Haiti. Lots of fog in that direction. When you look that way, you can't see a damn thing. You squint, you peer, you strain your eyes...then suddenly some Haitians will emerge and start working productively and gardening and assimilating and what not. And there's no drama. No organizing, no collective bargaining, they remember their place, they don't care if somebody sings an encore. The guys at corporate are all smiles and so are the folks at Party Headquarters. It's win - win!

Big Mike म्हणाले...

I could get behind that!

Ralph L म्हणाले...

Yesterday, I saw somewhere that someone's started a petition to recall the entire city council, which is a good but probably ineffective start, as the problem was created by DC. Politicians must be forced to stand up for their constituents, not foreigners or McDonald's.

Kit Carson म्हणाले...

oops. the worst aspect of this is hidden behind..."drawn by the availability of jobs." those jobs were NOT advertised locally. the jobs openings were secretly communicated to NGO's managing the influx of immigrants nationwide. in other words, a conspiracy, bona fide, to replace the locals.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

It does seem the Haitians were not moved here in any mass transfer by the Biden administration.

How does it seem they got there?

RAH म्हणाले...

Yep. That is correct.

boatbuilder म्हणाले...

If 20,000 French or Dutch or Japanese or, hell, Canadiens suddenly showed up in your town, it would be a huge issue, regardless of any "net benefits" to the area, even if they brought money with them. Honest reporting would be that the locals are overwhelmed and pissed off; that something is horribly wrong with a Federal government that not only allows but actively facilitates such disruption, and that the negative effects are imposed most significantly on the lower rungs of the economic ladder.
A measured response, pretending that this is not insane, is acceptance. Hell, no.

Leland म्हणाले...

How do people in Haiti hear about job openings for Japanese automakers in Ohio? What makes them think, “hey, it is Springfield, OH, but if we want a job maybe we should leave this beautiful Caribbean Island and move to deep interior United States.”

Whatever the story about dietary choices, Trump has creatively got the media to discuss immigrants flooding the country and taking jobs from Americans.

n.n म्हणाले...

DNC, NGOs, and affiliated corporations serve progressive prices; excess murder, rape-rape, rape, and other criminal enterprises, Democratic gerrymandering; Black Rocks and asset inflation; and forward-looking deficits. American Civil Liberties Unburdened

n.n म्हणाले...

This is the story of labor arbitrage, emvironmental arbitrage in Green Deals, of Diversity (e.g. racism, sexism, class bigotry) in the left-wing mainstream. Of GDP bumps in recurring capital and social dislocations. Of immigration reform to compensate for loss of life in human rites performed by progressive sects with liberal license.

Narayanan म्हणाले...

how did the first explorer Haitians discover Springfield? and low cost of living!

Butkus51 म्हणाले...

They brought their religion with them.

I wonder what the tenets of Voodoo are?

In a few days we will hear, "Its a good thing"

Breezy म्हणाले...

Our federal government just ships large numbers of illegals into areas without consent of the people that live there. They use our tax dollars to abuse us.

n.n म्हणाले...

This is a story of immigration reform in lieu of emigration reform to mitigate progress and collateral damage at both ends of the bridge and throughout. This is a story of Diversity and exploitation by special and queer interests, NYT. Weren't there Democratic-led enterprises to help Haiti that were fronts for self-enrichmemt?

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

"government policies that created the conditions for this conflict?...That's not to say the businesses don't need a spotlight. But they are reacting to the environment as much as the other actors are."

I agree. Listen to the whole podcast. I got the impression that government and business worked together in a scheme that created a labor shortage that pulled in immigrants, leaving the established residents feeling... replaced.

n.n म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

Bullshit! Where is a McDonalds hamburger $18?

PB म्हणाले...

what role did unions play in driving up the cost of business that forced some employers to close or leave? Are these Maitland playing on a level field or are they subcontractors supplied by a sourcing firm that ae actually paid a lower wage?

wild chicken म्हणाले...

With any luck my town has become too expensive for this kind of fuckery.

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

You have sure "heard" a lot of things. Do you have any proof that any of these things are true?

MadTownGuy म्हणाले...

Part of the post on X here contains this factoid:

"5.) A man associated with the re-location efforts is renting his 63 homes to 20-25 Haitians (per home), at $250/month, and is giving them local work."

Not stated, so I must wonder, is the property owner getting $250 per tenant? If not, that sounds charitable, though I doubt it. But if it is per tenant, somebody's getting rich in the deal, even if it involves kickbacks.

Dixcus म्हणाले...

Here's why they're doing it:

Illegal voter registration forms in Haitian Creole distributed by library in Springfield, Ohio


https://thepostmillennial.com/illegal-voter-registration-forms-in-haitian-creole-distributed-by-library-in-springfield-ohio

Your country is being stolen.

n.n म्हणाले...

This story recalls the climate surrounding the Declaration of Independence served to King Obama, Biden... George III. Round and round.

gilbar म्हणाले...

By most accounts, Springfield benefits from this influx of Haitians..

MOST accounts? or some accounts? or the accounts we want to notice?
if you were a job seeker in a town of 60,000 people.. and TWENTY THOUSAND new job seekers showed up.. would YOU think the town "benefits"?
Your kid's school now teaches in french.. would YOU think the town "benefits"?

Dixcus म्हणाले...

I admit. I was wrong. It's $19. Not $18.

Where? Connecticut. But don't believe me. CNN covered the story.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/business/outrage-usd18-big-mac-consumer-revolt/index.html

Temujin म्हणाले...

I suspect the truth of it all lies in between the NY Times and reports of cat eating. Everyone knows that immigration is good, needed, and helpful. But everyone should also admit the reality that unchecked, mass immigration, and even worse, mass unchecked illegal immigration is a recipe to rip apart a civil society.
You cannot expect a relatively small city run by government workers who can barely function outside of their normal routines as it is, to handle an influx of tens of thousands of new people from a different culture, many (most?) of whom do not speak the language, have different religious practices and cultural norms, to just 'fit in'.

Unmanaged immigration is not a good thing. I know everyone uses the argument that if you're against unmanaged immigration then you must be a racist, or xenophobe, or some sort of Nazi white supremacist. But no. It's all in the process- and the US, as well as Western Europe have been overrun.

So...while the Haitians were brought in to help them, it's not a help to plop thousands of them onto a batch of government employees whose ability to think outside the box is famously nil. The city itself will eventually figure this out- because they now have to.

But who makes this decision to change a city, a state, a nation? Who's made the decision to turn red states blue? Or comfortable communities, uncomfortable? Or a secure nation, insecure?

n.n म्हणाले...

35 trillion and 'K'ounting (pun intended).

n.n म्हणाले...

35 trillion and 'K'ounting (pun intended).

Sally327 म्हणाले...

I wonder how it is that people who come from one of the biggest shitholes on the planet somehow have all these wonderful and useful traits that are, apparently, lacking in Americans. Is the Haitian educational system really that superior to our own? Do they have lots of internship programs there? Lots of vocational training? Landscaping courses?

Where did they learn how to be these model residents, is it some crash cource they're given on the plane as they were flown in? And how come they aren't able to use all this civic virtue to benefit their home country?

I probably sound as if I'm being sarcastic but I'm not meaning to be, I really am wondering about the ingredients in this magic elixer that got mixed together to produce this great result. And why can't it be reproduced everywhere, not just in lucky Springfield, Ohio.

guitar joe म्हणाले...

Imagine DJT discussing the immigration issue in the ways some of you have presented it here instead of saying they eat dogs and cats.

Koot Katmandu म्हणाले...

Getting vibs it is like John Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath. Instead of telling the Okies to move to California for cheap labor - telling the Haitians to move to Ohio.

n.n म्हणाले...

It's a Pro-Choice ethical religion including human and animal rites performed for personal progress, "burden" mitigation, fair weather performances, etc. The stereotypical progressive sect with liberal tenets favored by NYT.

Rusty म्हणाले...

It's called "economics", Freder and it's a form of magic.

D&D म्हणाले...

It wonder if it's because DeWine, the governor of Ohio, was born in Springfield OH and has deep connections to Haiti. Hmmm? https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/ohio-gov-dewines-deep-connections-to-haiti-inform-response-to-springfield-controversy/M5HTIUUODNE4FIUPQ2AHDQSIHA/

Rusty म्हणाले...

It's not a rumor. It's in police reports.

Dixcus म्हणाले...

Well, that's a relief. I'm glad they're not eating the cats and are only using them to summon demons in their Voodoo rituals.

Former Illinois resident म्हणाले...

Those concentrations of "recently-arriving migrants" could easily arrive at many of Wisconsin's small cities too. It could easily happen here in my small Wisconsin city, because its characteristics are similar to Springfield's: inexpensive housing market, many low-skill manufacturing-warehousing employers, possible day-labor jobs, and a progressive local city government which advocates for social-justice causes. A large-scale "migrant relocation" could easily occur here too.

Our downtown and public library already willingly hosts several dozen homeless folks, a needy population well-served by ample public and private community outreach services. Our homeless folks have noticeable substance and/or mental health problems, and mostly former Milwaukee residents alerted favorable conditions here.

Our library is defacto homeless day-shelter, stuck with policing disruption caused by their frequent behavior problems. Now this summer, we've seen many newly-arriving foreign migrants, no English language skills, relying on church shelter relocation programs, using library resources for free zoom calls to country-of-origin. Meanwhile, our police department is also dealing with new problem of weekly episodes of shootings, knifings and drug-related offenses, with offenders usually new or newer arrivals to our community. The old folks, our historic demographic of steadfast civic-minded hard-working polite Lutherans, are stunned by these changes in our community.

Our homeless folks and the arriving uneducated migrants are often functionally illiterate, aren't necessarily qualified for local demand for skilled-manufacturing workers, and likely unemployable, requiring significant long-term public assistance. They will strain our existing community resources. That welcome mat probably needs to be retracted.

Peachy म्हणाले...

eat a park goose or duck, vote for Kamala. Register here!

Rusty म्हणाले...

Wait til the magic of economics sets in. Those 15-20 dollar an hour jobs the locals counted on are now displaced by 9-12 dollar an hour jobs. Out of 20,000 immigrants 5,000 are going to be on welfare at any given time.
To the natives of Springfield Ohio. This is what your town thinks of you. This is what your state thinks of you. This is what the federal government thinks of you. All the people in charge think you're trash. Vote accordingly.

Michael K म्हणाले...

Freder does not know this "Economics" you speak of. It's a mystery.

Dixcus म्हणाले...

"You know, before Sam Walton's kids started donating to NGOs like the Tides Foundation."

The Democrat Party is the Mafia and they have been running these protection rackets for decades. They've exhausted the Jesse Jackson method and are now using this instead.

narciso म्हणाले...

Real journalist would demand how many have gotten here which jobs how does it compare with other communities in the state but they dont have real journalist at the times

narciso म्हणाले...

https://www.newsbusters.org/journalists/sabrina-tavernise

Dixcus म्हणाले...

"It does seem the Haitians were not moved here in any mass transfer by the Biden administration."

And pray tell, exactly how do you think 20,000 people got off an island in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico and suddenly appeared all in the same place in the United States?

Does "it seem" they swam here?

Dixcus म्हणाले...

We tried that. We sent them to Martha's Vineyard, home of Barack Obama. The white people there had the United States military remove them to a concentration camp in Massachusetts.

Dixcus म्हणाले...

They know if the Social Security checks don't arrive we are going to skin them.

n.n म्हणाले...

They migrated by CO2-emitting trains, planes, ships, and probably automobiles, too. Harris promises to spend trillions to progress climate change and the impetus for American Civil Liberties Unburdened on a forward-looking basis.

Dixcus म्हणाले...

When they want to kill somebody, they put a tire filled with gasoline around the person's neck and light it on fire.

They call it a barbecue. One of the Hatian gang leaders is nicknamed Barbecue (Jimmy "Barbecue" Chérizier)

Those are the people Democrats are bringing into our country.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne म्हणाले...

How about some attention for the startup NGO's that are involved in cases like this and the case in Aurora? No, we won't see that since at the root of it all is grant money from the Biden-Harris administration.

tommyesq म्हणाले...

If Trump didn't say they were eating dogs and cats, we wouldn't be having this discussion because we wouldn't be aware that Springfield is now 25% Haitian.

n.n म्हणाले...

It seems that offering a pussy pâté has stimulated the senses and motivated the conventional presentation of Democratic distractions from the issues on the menu.

Cheryl म्हणाले...

Let's do a little math... $250 x 20 = $5000 per home per month, x 63 = $315,000 per month. How generous to give them local work.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne म्हणाले...

It needs investigation.

Cheryl म्हणाले...

"Drawn there..." drawn...They can't help it. They're just drawn that way.

Sally327 म्हणाले...

I think Haiti has a sad and tragic history and that the French, actually, are the ones who have a lot to answer for. But if we wanted to pick a former French colony to take people from, if we absolutely have to do that, I think we should choose Vietnam.

n.n म्हणाले...

Haitians have destroyed their fisheries, clear-cut their land, tolerated unbridled violence and corruption in a self-inflicted state. They are desperately in need of emigration reform to mitigate their progress.

Gerda Sprinchorn म्हणाले...

"no credible reports"

This seems to confirm that there ARE reports of pets harmed.

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

It's not a rumor. It's in police reports.

There is one call to 911 that reported Haitians with four geese (not household pets). Hardly enough proof.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Very interesting. Thanks for linking that.

n.n म्हणाले...

NYT defends the forward-looking collateral damage from planned parenthood, redistributive change, and DEI/DIE/IED policies. At least the Global Democratic Propaganda is joyful, and the GOoP is delightful.

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

That was for a meal, not just the hamburger. And it was a rest stop on the highway, which is almost always outrageously expensive.

Aggie म्हणाले...

..."A false claim made by Donald Trump in the presidential debate has its origins in an Ohio town...."

Here is what I've learned: When I see biased conclusions intended as an injection for the reader, before they've read the story, I now automatically conclude that the story is being intentionally skewed, and pre-believe the opposite instead - before I start reading.

Then I read critically, to see if they can disprove their own bias. So I take this claim as true, and note that nobody has taken on the investigative task of getting to the bottom of it, especially this so-called reporter, who claims it's been beneficial to the town, with all of the evidence of its irate citizens to the contrary. They, and politicians like Trump, and city officials that deign to appear on Fox, are all to be dismissed as cranks or shameless hustlers. The journalist has crafted her endorsement, and the podcast serves the purpose of distributing it.

From Wiki: "In general, the Secretary of Homeland Security may grant temporary protected status to people already present in the United States who are nationals of a country experiencing ongoing armed conflict, an environmental disaster, or any temporary or extraordinary conditions that would prevent the foreign national from returning safely and assimilating into their duty.[1] Temporary protected status allows beneficiaries to live and, in some cases, work in the United States for a limited amount of time. As of March 2022, there are more than 400,000 foreign nationals in Temporary Protected Status".

400k - Two years ago.

So - it's an Administration benediction, arbitrarily enacted to support Administration objectives. Anybody that believes that thousands of Haitians qualify for a special dispensation from immigration procedures, just because they showed up from a violent country and crossed the borders illegally, is pre-disposed to swallow this Administration's bullsh*t about how they naturally found their way to Springfield, all by themselves, by the thousands, by word-of-mouth.

Anybody that thinks it's OK for the federal government to impose this kind of destruction on small town America is part of the problem, in my opinion. And anybody that doesn't think there are cozy NGO extra-governmental aspects of gilding this lilly, is delusional. Here it is: It's happening now. It's been happening for years in other cities, with other ethnic groups from hotic hot spots. It's a Freakin' problem.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne म्हणाले...

@Sally327: That will never happen. Vietnamese immigrants in this country overwhelmingly vote Republican.

Dogma and Pony Show म्हणाले...

"While I believe the immigration has been/will be a net benefit for the area, I can suspect there a lot of middle to lower income residents that are feeling negative effects that the local/state/federal governments aren't sufficiently addressing."

How do you reckon it will be a net benefit if so many middle to lower income residents (which encompasses pretty much everyone in that area) are experiencing adverse effects from it?

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Government and businesses worked together to ship good paying jobs overseas. Now they're bring some jobs back, but they're bringing foreign workers in to fill them. They like their workers cheap and pliable, eyes downcast.

Dude1394 म्हणाले...

No thanks. Any "news" source that leads off with a "false claim" by trump but NEVER does it for Kamala is not worth reading.

Dogma and Pony Show म्हणाले...

If it's such a great thing that's happening in Springfield, why aren't small cities and towns across the country vying for the privilege of becoming the next big dumping ground for third world aliens?

NorthOfTheOneOhOne म्हणाले...

They're obviously trying to follow the pattern that has become quite prevalent in the media lately:

Step 1: Something gets reported - Media response: Oh, that didn't happen!

Step 2: Evidence emerges that it did happen - Media response: Well, it did happen but not like you think!

Step 3: Evidence emerges that it's as bad as everyone says it is - Media response: Here's how this is actually good for America!

They landed their podcast somewhere around 2.5, so in general it was a flop.

loudogblog म्हणाले...

"So a city that had a population just under 60,000, now possibly has 80,000.... By most accounts, Springfield benefits from this influx of Haitians. They have come to work. "

There is no way that a city with only 60,000 people just happened to have enough jobs unfilled that could accommodate 1/3rd of their native population.

Flooding a small job market with that many immigrants will create massive unemployment and depress wages.

Dogma and Pony Show म्हणाले...

That's easy: It was the Biden-Harris administration that made the decision to inflict all of the adverse consequences of unchecked, illegal mass immigration upon American communities and families. Murder, rape, economic displacement, wage loss, inflation, stresses on public services, etc. -- it all goes on the tab of B-H, the most disastrous administration in U.S. history.

Mary Beth म्हणाले...

"By most accounts, Springfield benefits from this influx of Haitians."

The government of Springfield has gotten a lot of money. Landlords are able to ask for much higher rent when it's paid by the government. Manufacturing companies are able to hire people at minimum wage for jobs that Americans would want several times that to do. (It's easier to work for minimum wage when someone else is paying your rent. Does the government also subsidize food and other costs for them?)

People are also complaining about the cost of car insurance going up because of uninsured refugee drivers. Presumably uninsured, because the complaints are mostly of people getting in accidents and then just leaving the scene. Whatever the reason, car insurance went up over 50% there this year.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

I'm mocking the quoted article, Freder, where they say, "I heard".
If it's good enough for the intrepid journalists of the NYT, it's good enough for me.

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

Two nonresponsive comments. About what I expect from you two.

Josephbleau म्हणाले...

“There is one call to 911 that reported Haitians with four geese (not household pets). Hardly enough proof.”

Only one example is required to prove that a condition can occur.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

The immigrants were drawn to Springfield.
The cats and dogs were drawn...and quartered.

hombre म्हणाले...

Videos of Springfield citizens complaining to the City Council about the presence and behavior of Haitians belie claims that they are benefiting the community (I've lost the links). If you believe they got to Springfield without the government's help, you must be a Democrat.

FullMoon म्हणाले...

A few from the link, read it for more:

But the sudden influx of all these people also puts a huge strain on the
town’s resources. For example, the schools now have 1,500 out of 7,500 students who are English language learners.

At the main federally-subsidized health clinic in the city, the head of the clinic actually told me that they had seen Haitians lining up at 5:00 AM, about three hours before the clinic actually opens, to secure appointments. And meanwhile, long-time residents could not get in. And appointments that were scheduled for 15-minute slots can take up to 45 minutes because there’s now this massive need for translation for folks who are not fluent in English.

. Rents have gone up. And sometimes four or five Haitian men rent one house. They can afford to pay more than one American family with one or two breadwinners, right?

FullMoon म्हणाले...

Let's pretend there are not enough poor Americans willing to move to Springfield for a decent factory job.

Tina Trent म्हणाले...

Yeah, they always say that.

In reality, offspring of immigrants, be they "dreamers" brought here early or anchor babies born here, have exceedingly high crime and delinquency rates.

We can blame our schools, which give them the racial resentment-victim mentality-cultural superiority-hate whitey workout.

pacwest म्हणाले...

Don't know for sure in this instance, but in CA I've seen up to 14 illegals in on small 2 bedroom house paying per tenant. $600 per month to share a bedroom with 1 other guy. Not sure, but I think the other 10 in the living room were only paying $400.

Greg The Class Traitor म्हणाले...

By most accounts, Springfield benefits from this influx of Haitians.
"By the accounts of the only people we care about (NOT the people of Springfield)..." FIFY

They have come to work. I heard... that Haitians are coming to work on time. They’re reliable. They’re drama-free. ...
They're serfs how "know their place", and work for a lot less than Americans would. Screw the workers! Help the rich

They’re sending their kids to schools, schools that actually had been losing students because the city had been shrinking.
Taxpayers are being forced to pay to send their kids to crappy schools that were shrinking because they do such a shitty job. FIFY

And they’re leasing homes and apartments
Driving up the costs for the American citizens living there.
Again, Screw the workers! Help the rich

hombre म्हणाले...

Freder (10:41): "Two nonresponsive comments. About what I expect from you two." Right, Freder. Boyd tells you his source and it's "nonresponsive"? Are you Democrats so afflicted with TDS that you hate all non-Democrats?

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

In reality, offspring of immigrants, be they "dreamers" brought here early or anchor babies born here, have exceedingly high crime and delinquency rates.

Please provide links to this assertion. You all are always getting on my case because I do not always provide links. Wild assertions like this are rarely backed up with actual facts, and when they are, the "proof" is often some rando on Xitter.

I doubt you have any proof since I doubt anyone has any data, or is collecting data, to back up your assertion, even if it is true.

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

That is not an example of people stealing and eating household pets.

Old and slow म्हणाले...

Landlords and hotel owners in Ireland are getting rich housing "refugees" at taxpayer expense. Local businesses would prefer to see rich American tourists in the hotels.

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

I wasn't referring to Boyd (I am sorry I missed his sarcasm), I was talking about Rusty and Michael K, how frequently make irrelevant comments and launch ad homonym attacks.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

The unemployment rate in Clark County, Ohio is 1% above the national average. It is all but certain that less than a thousand of the 20 thousand Haitian refugees are actually working but are, instead, being supported by the federal government via payments to various non-profit agencies (probably where most the Haitians who do work are working).

The right question to ask is why these 20K aren't on Martha's Vineyard where low wage employees would be most effective for businesses. But, of course, you know why these refugees get sent to places like Clark County, Ohio and not to Dukes County, Massachusetts, don't you?

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

How about you provide some proof for the other side, Freder?

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

By religion, you mean Catholicism, right? About 2% of Haiti practices Voodoo (about the same percentage as Jews in the U.S.), 55% are Catholic, 29% protestant.

Michael K म्हणाले...

The "Dogs and Cats" are getting the attention. The Media would ignore Trump about illegals.

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

How about you provide some proof for the other side, Freder?

Because I am not the one making baseless claims. When Tina Trent comes back with proof of her assertion, then I will research it further. She can't, so I am not worried that I will have waste my time debunking it.

Michael K म्हणाले...

Freder always has a reason for his bullshit.

Lazarus म्हणाले...

Something is missing here. There are established Haitian communities in other parts of the country. How is it that so many Haitians ended up in small cities in Ohio? Not just Springfield, but also Findlay and Lima. Somebody sent them there, rather than to New York City or Boston, Miami or Orlando. Somebody had to receive them in Ohio and either find places for them or push them on to places where they would find them.

Ride public transportation in Boston, and signs vary between English, Spanish, Portuguese, (two versions of) Chinese, Vietnamese, and Haitian Creole. If you need forms from the state or local government, they're available in all those languages. I'd suppose that Haitians in small Ohio cities aren't likely to be as integrated into an established community, as they would be in larger East Coast cities.

tom म्हणाले...

"But who makes this decision to change a city, a state, a nation? Who's made the decision to turn red states blue? Or comfortable communities, uncomfortable? Or a secure nation, insecure?"
One lesson of growing up is you learn that actually, nobody is in charge.

mccullough म्हणाले...

You live 20 miles away. Check it out for yourself.

boatbuilder म्हणाले...

This is blatantly illegal under virtually every housing code in the US, for very good reasons. But it gets ignored for “migrants,” for very bad reasons.

Inga म्हणाले...

Freder, I always consider the source, those two are not worth the space they take up in the comments sections.

Rusty म्हणाले...

Freder Frederson
"Two nonresponsive comments. About what I expect from you two."
Here's a thought. Maybe if you responded with something thoughtful and intelligent.

Inga म्हणाले...

IF he wins…

When Trump has his “bloody” mass deportations, I sure hope he deports them back to their home countries and not some country he’s obsessed with at the moment. Haitians to Haiti, not Venezuela.

“And you know, getting them out will be a bloody story,” Trump said. “They should never have been allowed to come into our country. Nobody checked them.”
WaPo

Rusty म्हणाले...

When I do respond you don't have an arguement. So you get what you give.

wildswan म्हणाले...

The fisrt comment I'd make on the narrative is that it does not distinguish between the PAROLE program and Temporary Parole Status.
The PAROLE program is flying in a total of 30,000 Haitians, Cubans, Venezuelan and Nicaraguans each month. They apply in their own country so the tyrannts in Cuba, Venezuela and Nacaragua are allowing these flights. Whe PAROLE members arrive in the US they are eligible for Social Security and a work authorization and they are flown to a particular destination. These people must have a "supporter" so they are flown to the supporters town. With SS and a work authorization they can immediately get a drover's license. With a driver's licence and Social Security, they can register to vote online. It would be illegal but no one is checking.

Temporary Protected Status
This applies to people in this country illegally already. They cannot be deported and can get a work authorization. The eligible countries are the four PAROLE countries: Haiti, Nicaragua, Venezuela, El Salvador
plus
Afghanistan
Yemen
Syria
Ethiopia
Somalia
South Sudan
Sudan
Honduras
Burma (Myanmar)
Nepal
Cameroon
Ukraine
Also anyone who applied for asylum more than 150 days ago.

So the question is this: Which program did the Haitians arrive under? If PAROLE the government flew them at taxpayers' expense to Springfield. (Both TPS and PAROLE have no fees. They are "free" meaning the US taxpayer is is paying for the flights and the processing.) And that would suggest that the government is flooding certain areas with certain national groups. Once .gov establishes these nationality ghettos then the TPS people from that nationality might naturally drift there. Then we might ask: Where did .gov send the PAROLE Cubans? Where else did it send PAROLE Haitians?

BUt the NYT story says these Haitians are in the TPS program and simply drifted in to Springfield on hearing of available jobs. Can that be so? Why would there be just one foreign nationality in Springfield if the attraction is well-paying jobs?

So just on first reading it seems that NYT is providing a narrative, not news. Show me I'm wrong .

Kevin म्हणाले...

The Left Is Powerless in Stopping the Haitians Eating Pets Story...And It's Amazing to Watch

wildswan म्हणाले...

Next consider what the NYT says about the impact of this influx on the community. Haitians, the Times alleges, are living in nice, well-maintained houses whereas the citizens are living in dumps they don't maintain. This suggests to me that my fellow Americans aren't getting those famous well-paying jobs and that the Haitians are. Of course it suggests to the NYT that Springfield is full of shiftless citizens (who nevertheless are paying the taxes to support the influx.) There are statistics showing that illegals make up most of the new hires across the US. Is that happening in Springfield? Are Americans excluded from "well-paying jobs?" Or are the jobs NOT paying well but the PAROLE people are packing into housing to make the rent in a way that probably against the zoning. Are the PAROLE people NOT well paid? Are they then turning to the town ducks and other protein?
When citizens see themselves excluded from work and the laws not enforced they know the fix is in and they stop complaining because that will just get them in trouble with City Hall. Is that happening in Springfield? The NYT will never ask that question, let alone answer it.

Harun म्हणाले...

No, they do not operate by "word of mouth"

There is a hiring agency there called First Diversity. They offer services in English, Spanish and French. They also have transportation to your job site. Supposedly they own apartment complexes as well.

Here is what is happening. The flow of migrants is now so large, and the NGOs paid to process them have grown so big, that they now have to move many, many people to a location. they are centralized so they negotiate for an entire apartment complex - this is how they became all Venezuelan, etc.

They then have a labor agency, that offers rides to and from work. This is really easy and profitable if its from one apartment complex to one factory, with 30 Haitian workers.

They're trying to convince you its organic. It isn't.

This reminds of the homeless industrial complex.



Harun म्हणाले...

Also, how many companies do you know in America that operate in French?

Spanish? Sure!

But French? Its a very large flow. The resources are there. Migration is now guided by NGOs. Maybe it always has been.

Harun म्हणाले...

The question I would like answered. What percent of the 20,000 Haitians are fully employed. I would bet the cat eaters are not employed.

It sounds like something a bored peasant would do: forage for meals.

They will never explore that side of this. Also, Rufo has the video of cats being barbecued in Dayton. so that is really happening.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Kudos to wildswan and Harun. And numerous others. Great comments.
You can get more good information and understanding from the brain-child of one brilliant and hard-working lady in Wisconsin than you can from the entire massive staff and resources of the New York Times and you can have a lot more fun doing it. It happens every day right here.

Inga म्हणाले...

Why would the “Left” want to stop such stories? It helps the left’s side to draw attention to such insane stories and who is spreading and believing them. The more Trump and Trumpublicans “go there”, the better for their political opposition.

Michael K म्हणाले...

Freder would not think of "launching ad hominum attacks." He does it without thinking, as does the dullard.

walter म्हणाले...

https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/biden-shovels-millions-nonprofits-aid-his-open-border-schemes-congress-must

walter म्हणाले...

Yeah..well..those cat-B-ques are by Africans.Vive la difference!

walter म्हणाले...

The only one who can sort this out is John Kasich. Fun fact: His Dad worked for the post office!

hombre म्हणाले...

Off topic: The NY Post reports, "5 in 6 Wisconsinites who don’t believe in God back Kamala Harris in new battleground poll.” In a surprising find, Wisconsin heathens prefer Harris as do most heathens.

Aggie म्हणाले...

So in other words, first Freder says, decisively: 'Bullsh*t ! That never happened !', and then next he says 'Well OK, it might be true, but it only happens occasionally and it's happening in ways you don't really understand very well, only in special circumstances'. Next, he'll admit that it's 'completely true almost everywhere, but it's actually a good thing', and in a day or two, it'll be 'You should be happy that these are so expensive, and if you complain you're a racist' Do I have that right?

Ralph L म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Ralph L म्हणाले...

"no credible reports"

Gerda: This seems to confirm that there ARE reports of pets harmed.

Me: And the authorities didn't bother to investigate, because they weren't going to do anything about it anyway.

n.n म्हणाले...

Trump brought desperately needed attention to the motives, actors , and consequences of insourcing. Korea is demonstrating in stark relief the consequences of labor and environmental arbitrage to the viability of a society.

FullMoon म्हणाले...

For Inga, Freder, Muta , and other culinary curious looking for tips
Informative You tube vid from nine years ago showing how Haitans prepare cats for dinner

Ralph L म्हणाले...

Bob Boyd is not a wasted space, he's a, if not, the reason I came here in the Chuck/Drago carp era and continue to sift through the predictable.

walter म्हणाले...

Interview with Springfield residents, one a local official:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrCotATOgR4

Mason G म्हणाले...

the entire complicated problem of Springfield, Ohio, the small city that fell into the meat grinder of the American presidential election.

60,000 is small? In Idaho, that'll get you into the top 5 (maybe) or 10 (for sure) most populated cities.

Gator म्हणाले...

Utter horse you know what. You ou can’t bring in 20,000+ immigrants and have it not be a problem. Ihad family in Springfield. They all left

Inga म्हणाले...

Ralph, my comment about the two ( Michael Kennedy and Rusty, among a few others) who are wasted space was not directed at Bob Boyd.

Jim at म्हणाले...

Whatever the story about dietary choices, Trump has creatively got the media to discuss immigrants flooding the country and taking jobs from Americans.

That's been my point from the start. And the more our resident leftists squeal and attempt to distract from the main issue, the more we know how deep it resonates with apolitical people. The independents. The ones who decide elections.

They know it, too. Hence the squealing and distractions.

Rusty म्हणाले...

How much is a cat? Not the whole meal. Just the cat. The other white meat.

Jim at म्हणाले...

It helps the left’s side to draw attention to such insane stories and who is spreading and believing them.

You don't have a single, political bone in your body if you think this issue helps you.

Rusty म्हणाले...

Fair enough, Freder. But even you have to admit imposing 20 thousand illegal third world immigrants on a town of 60 thousand is going to go well.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

Freder, you are claiming the claim isn't true without any facts at all. So you are making a baseless claim, too.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Thanks, Ralph. That makes me feel good. I like to get your take on things too.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

I know you love me, Inga dear. You're a crazy, mixed-up kid, but I like you.

John henry म्हणाले...

Thank you for that. DeWine is an American hero for that

John henry म्हणाले...

Thank you for that. DeWine is an American hero for that

John henry म्हणाले...

Greatly replaced, Ann? Isn't that just a "theory" that has beed "debunked"?

Don't tell us that you have become an extremist right wing white nationalist. Heaven forfend.

John Henry

Rosalyn C. म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Rosalyn C. म्हणाले...

The way this story is presented is kind of silly in that it ignores the government agencies and NGOs who are supporting this immigration policy and replaces it with some "gee whiz IDK" as if this all must be some word of mouth coincidence that these people just showed up in Springfield, etc.

The NGOs: Catholic Charities, Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service, International Rescue Committee, Church World Service, World Relief, Refugee Resettlement Agencies; and local NGOs (Community Refugee and Immigration Services) CRIS in Columbus, OH, local Haitian American Community Coalition HCC, and Haitian Neighborhood Center in Miami who helps Haitians move to smaller communities.

IOW, this is a major bureaucracy, and not the result of some word of mouth between the people in Haiti.

And of course you ask, who is paying the NGOs? Our government is funding these through the Refugee Resettlement Programs. The US Refugee Admissions Program, USRAP, provides grants from the Dept. of State and the Dept. of Health and Human Services provides funding through the Office of Refugee Resettlement ORR.

These resettlement agencies typically receive per capita payment $1225-$2275 per refugee to cover expenses during the first several months. Then there are other programs to help with the longer term needs, legal services, etc. Case managers who are handling all this make about $35k-$50K/yr., directors or program coordinators earn bet. $50k-$80k.

The budget for these programs for FY 2023 through the State Dept. was around $3.91 billion/yr. The budget through the Dept. of Health and Human Services for FY 2023 was about $2.65 billion/yr.

Seems likely that there would be some coordination with large employers willing to locate in the area through tax breaks, abatements, etc. These would include Enterprise Zones, called Tax Increment Financings (TIF), Ohio Job Creation Tax Credit, Community Reinvestment Areas (CRA)New Markets Tax Credit (NMTC), AKA the Opportunity Zones vaguely mentioned by VP Harris as part of "her" economic development policy. There are grants for training in Ohio called TechCred, and local tax reductions in Springfield, OH, for example. These attracted Topre America Corporation, an auto parts manufacturer, and Silfex Inc., a high tech manufacturer.

My point is to illustrate that an ordinary citizen such as myself can access all this information easily, so why isn't it being provided by the NYTimes or other professional journalists? This should not be a secret imo. How insulting to the citizens of Springfield that all of this has been going on and they have no idea why or how extensively organized these programs are.
Of course when local officials are asked about the problems being caused to local low income neighborhoods they claim they have no idea and it's not happening! AKA gaslighting.

glacial erratic म्हणाले...

Haven't we seen this act before? Per the news media:

Week 1 - It's not happening
Week 2 - Trump double-downs on false, debunked right-wing conspiracy theory
Week 3 - It's not happening but if it was happening it would be a good thing
Week 4 - It might be happening a little bit
Week 5 - It is happening, but diversity is our strength
Week 6 - Not eating pets is a sign of white supremacy
Week 7 - Trump is a racist

RAH म्हणाले...

Since the early 70's, I have been aware that the practice of eating cats is not uncommon in Jamaica. Cats breed fast and if people need a source of meat, they are available. In this country we have other sources , so cats are pets and loved. So I am not surprised in poverty stricken Haiti if this also not uncommon.
There are several witness statements that they have seen the vans with cats in Springfield driven by Haitians. So it probably does happen. Not super common, but it does happen. People in this country get upset about this.

Funny that we have had children , women, killed by many, mostly illegal immigrants, yet people are not upset as much as the idea that pets are killed and eaten.

Greg The Class Traitor म्हणाले...

Apparently the Mayor is a big rental landlord.

So he's getting rich off all the migrants being brought it

Zev म्हणाले...

Oh, please. A town of less than 60,000 is suddenly inundated by 20,000 people from a completely different culture - quite a violent culture to be sure - and it's all just fine and dandy.