"... and are very concerned about division and the potential for violence. Young women think Trump’s style is an embarrassment abroad, a poor role model for their children, and dangerous for the country. Younger men especially blue collar have a grudging respect for his strength and 'tell it like it is' attitude."
Wrote the Democratic pollster Celinda Lake, quoted by Thomas B. Edsall, in "A Huge Gender Gap Is Emerging Among Young Voters" (NYT).
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७२ टिप्पण्या:
So who is more likely right? The male or the female viewpoint.
As always, I'm very curious how the questions that were used to arrive at this conclusion by Ms. Lake were posed, and how they were asked. On TikTok?
I, for one, appreciate that so many Democrats are still trying so hard to breathe life into cadaverous Biden campaign.
Nineteenth Amendment delenda est!
Gender gap... masculine and feminine gender (i.e. sex-correlated attributes) perspectives. Eyes up here, genderist pig.
Do these young women go to the grocery store? Are they aware of the billions we’ve sent to Ukraine? And what about the 1,300 Jews slaughtered by Hamas? Enjoying all those drug deaths in their towns?
I was in Beverly Hills last weekend pitching my “Frankenstein, Part II.” The Beverly Hills park has a display with a flag for each person murdered by Hamas. And, yes, there were some American flags.
These women need to wake the fuck up.
"As always, I'm very curious how the questions that were used to arrive at this conclusion by Ms. Lake were posed, and how they were asked."
Lake was emailing Edsall, who had asked for an explanation for a poll that was "Tracking the partisan identification and ideology of 18-to-34-year-olds... show[ing] that from 2012 to 2023, women became increasingly Democratic, going from 55-29 in 2012 to 60-22 in 2023" and "Among young men, the Democratic advantage in partisan identification fell from nine points in 2012 to five points in 2023."
Lake had 3 explanations. I only quoted one. The other 2 were abortion and the economy.
Trump’s style is an embarrassment abroad.. and dangerous for the country
Serious Questions:
How many wars did Trump Start?
How many embassies did Trump lose?
What is the meaning; of the word: embarrassment? or dangerous?
My wife’s friend Vicki voted for Biden because he “seemed nice”.
More seriously, how is it that women (allegedly) fail to notice that the election strategy of the entire Democrat Party is to divide people and set them at each others’ throats? Yet they (allegedly) find Trump to be divisive?
Those changes to political identification barely rise above the level of statistical noise, although the fact that they are in opposite directions seems significant.
I think 90% of those prissy young women would jump into Melania’s shoes in a heartbeat.
“ Lake had 3 explanations. I only quoted one. The other 2 were abortion and the economy.”
I’ve asked this here before and didn’t get an answer.
What do women think Biden, or any President for that matter, is going to do about “abortion” when the Supreme Court has ruled that it is a matter for the individual states to decide?
What am I missing?
Anyone who thinks that the Anti-Trump movement (I'm talking mostly about the so-called "NeverTrump conservatives, et al) doesn't want to understand TrumpWingers and independents who may have voted for Trump in the past, has not been following pollsters like Celinda Lake, Sarah Longwell and many others. They want to understand; they want to listen; they want to know exactly what they are dealing with. In order to beat Trump in November. They are working hard on that, and they have generous funding to work with.
For my part, I also want to understand. I want to know what is actually going on in TrumpWing media. I am not goint to pretend to like TrumpWingers or even respect them. Most of them are unreachable electorally, and I won't waste my time. All that I want is a defeated Trump, and defeated TrumpWing candidates up and down my Michigan ballot. In that process, I am glad to read stuff like this. To peel off a winning electoral margin.
As ever, I will vote for any and every Republican who denounces Trump. And I will vote against any and every Republican who endorses Trump or who is endorsed by Trump.
All nibbling around the edges. P0TATUS Joe Biden is willfully trying to stake his position in history as the man at the helm of the Free World/Western Civilization when the whole damn thing fell apart. Open your eyes, NYT.
I have zero respect for stupid people.
Sympathy, certainly.
Women are destroying the nation...
"embarassed abroad" Oh, I think Biden has lowered that bar quite a bit. In fact he's dug a trench to put that bar in and dropped another bar on top of it and laid another bar across it just to get it at ground level. And he's still not done. No. Our selected grandpa and chief has made us a laughingstock all over the world. Our foreign policy seems to consist of giving aid to anybody except Americans and buffoonery. Heavy on the buffoonery.
American Women in the 21st Century are definitely THE problem.
Consider #MeToo & P*ssy Hats: What a self-demeaning stunt they were so easily led to make and wear.
Listen 7 min. to @NPR Nooz and Observe how easily they herd their cud-chewing Heifers into going along w cray cray Leftie catechism, or, alternatively, entice them to Stampede.
American Men, and the women who love em, are our only hope now.
It's not news that males vote right and females vote left. It may be news that young males vote right, as they typically move from left to right as they get jobs and take on financial support responsibilities.
We are perhaps seeing the end of a cultural pendulum swing following women's suffrage circa 1920. For several decades after women could vote, the male/female vote gap didn't matter because married women voted the same way as their husbands. Now, with late marriages and life-long single people, we've ended up with government by middle-school boy vs. girl cliques and adults without much life experience.
Men invented locker room talk and many, many, many dirty jokes. Trump is by no means worse than middle schoolers. This gap is not partisan. See lefty Howard Stern.
It's not surprising to me that there is a wide split on Trump based on his style. Everyone has a platonic ideal of President in their head. While this definitely includes things like favored policies, judgment, and temperament, it also includes style. And style makes a big difference for folks. After all when then candidate Biden was commenting on new to scene candidate Obama in 2007, he thought good praiseworthy commentary was to say, "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy." That is all about style. Trump's style just rubs lots of folks the wrong way.
Young women think Trump’s style is an embarrassment abroad, a poor role model for their children, and dangerous for the country.
Young women on American college campuses are blocking Jewish students from accessing buildings and classrooms. Plus they aren't having children like they used to.
These same young women want the "right" to feed their kids puberty blockers. Is Nancy Pelosi a role model for children? Don't they worry about their kids getting sucked into another of America's never ending wars??
Young women are sucked into crap leftwing "The View" type TV - and they let it ruin their brains.
also - noted the hack D press will not call the Hamas supporting rioters and protestors "radical leftists" that they are.
The original headline on Edsall's column was:
"The Oldest President Is in Big Trouble With the Youngest Voters."
Archive link.
Tells a different story, doesn't it.
"... while young women want people to be respected including themselves, ..."
Right up until you ask them if men are necessary for society.
It's issue politics versus identity politics. The media's hyperbolic trashing of Trump provides confirmation bias for women. Orange Man Bad and abortion seal the deal, despite abortion being a state issue. Of course Biden has always been known as one of the biggest pricks in DC and an unabashed grifter, but never mind, he's Benevolent Joe now.
Girls, forget the open border and its horrific consequences, the corrupting of the legal system, Middle East chaos, Ukraine payoff, burgeoning crime, inflation, etc. Joe has only one rape behind him. He's a good guy. And if he goes, we get Kamala. She may be dumb as a stump, but she's one of us.
Somebody got it right:
"while young women want people to be respected including themselves, want stability and are very concerned about division and the potential for violence."
So they voted for Joe Biden, Democrat. The same Democrats who attempt to destroy people who disagree with them (ex: Donald Trump) and who support using rioting and destruction as tools to advance their goals. Seems like an odd choice. But anyway- Joe and the Democrats have had nearly four years to work on it, so- do we have stability now?
Ed Begley: Do these young women go to the grocery store? Are they aware of the billions we’ve sent to Ukraine? And what about the 1,300 Jews slaughtered by Hamas? Enjoying all those drug deaths in their towns?
Jersey Fled: What do women think Biden, or any President for that matter, is going to do about “abortion” when the Supreme Court has ruled that it is a matter for the individual states to decide?
It's all about the feelz, boyz.
Somebody got it right: "It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party...." Orwell, 1984.
Its why young women shouldn't vote. Orignally, the Uk only gave married women and those over 30 the vote. For obvious reasons. Girls just want to have fun, and expecting them to cast a wise vote goes against nature.
Sadly, the power elite have diluted the smart person's vote by giving it to young girls, felons, crazy people, non-Americans, immigrants who cant speak English, and people with IQs under 100. All these groups are easily manipulated and easily led.
Its not as if lots of Older men and women aren't gullible rubes. Its just the percentage is lower.
Chuck Channeling Schumer: "All that I want is a defeated Trump [and open border and horrific consequences, crooked legal system, burgeoning crime, inflation, Middle East chaos, Ukraine payoff, deteriorating cities, Chicken Little grifting, student loan payoff, etc.].
TDS identity politics all the way down.
Funny, I think of the left as chaotic and violent, a Trump more likely to bring law and order.
Though the left ain't gonna let that happen either.
This has become so much the conventional wisdom that I begin to grow suspicious of it. The things that "everyone knows" ultimately turn out to be "Things that aren't true, but everyone wants to believe for different reasons." (A very GK Chesterton sentiment.)
Never have I seen such a perfect example of the contrast of what made America and the rising tide of bureaucracy over the last 20 yrs or so.
The young and college educated, mostly the women, value conformity, submission to authority and never, ever, "having a go" as Deidre McCloskey says of capitalism and true liberalism, without approval of the powers that be.
"HIGH-BROWS turn up their noses at Horatio Alger’s philosophy. Yet Alger succeeded better than anybody else in stressing the most characteristic point of capitalist society. Capitalism is a system under which everybody has the chance of acquiring wealth; it gives everybody unlimited opportunity. Not everybody, of course, is favored by good luck. Very few become millionaires. But everybody knows that strenuous effort and nothing less than strenuous effort pays. All roads are open to the smart youngster. He is optimistic in the awareness of his own strength. He has self-confidence and is full of hope. And as he grows older and realizes that many of his plans have been frustrated, he has no cause for despair. His children will start the race again and he does not see any reason why they should not succeed where he himself failed. Life is worth living because it is full of promise.
"All this was literally true of America. In old Europe there still survived many checks inherited from the ancien régime. Even in the prime of liberalism, aristocracy and officialdom were struggling for the maintenance of their privileges. But in America there were no such remnants of the Dark Ages. It was in this sense a young country, and it was a free country. Here were neither industrial codes nor guilds. Thomas Alva Edison and Henry Ford did not have to overcome any obstacles erected by shortsighted governments and a narrow-minded public opinion.
'Under such conditions the rising generation are driven by the spirit of the pioneer. They are born into a progressing society, and they realize that it is their task to contribute something to the improvement of human affairs. They will change the world, shape it according to their own ideas. They have no time to waste, tomorrow is theirs and they must prepare for the great things that are waiting for them. They do not talk about their being young and about the rights of youth; they act as young people must act. They do not boast about their own “dynamism”; they are dynamic and there is no need for them to emphasize this quality. They do not challenge the older generation with arrogant talk. They want to beat it by their deeds.
"But it is quite a different thing under the rising tide of bureaucratization. Government jobs offer no opportunity for the display of personal talents and gifts. Regimentation spells the doom of initiative."
--von Mises, Ludwig (1945). Bureaucracy
Jersey Fled said...
My wife’s friend Vicki voted for Biden because he “seemed nice”.
Ask her to imagine being a 12 yr old girl eating ice cream in a shop when "The Beast" pulls up outside.
Like most people, I want a president who is presidential, that I can be proud of. And that's not Trump. But that's nothing compared to how much I want a president who is competent.
Under Trump, until COVID, the country was increasingly prosperous and the world was increasingly peaceful. Under Biden, the opposite is true. If these women actually wanted what they claimed to want, they'd be Trump voters.
I have nothing but disdain for people who will let thousands die and millions suffer for no better reason than that they want to feel their president is a nice man.
Shorter Chuck:
"I like getting fucked in the ass by Democrats."
This parsing of potential voters matters not at all. Biden will win this election thanks in part to Trump having a metaphorical mountain of feces piled atop himself, both of his own making and donated by others, plus of course universal mail in ballots of unimpeachable & absolute value as votes despite unauditable * unverifiable validity. It was a fluke that Trump won in 2016, and Hillary will never be president. But we reverted to the norm in 2020, and 2024 will be exactly like that, only with slicker production values in vote harvesting.
Then the real problem starts, because if Joe's senescence doesn't become overwhelming before November, it certainly will do so after.
According to the NYT article, Biden has been maintaining his support with young women and losing his support from young men. Now, he is losing his support with all young voters:
“President Biden’s support for Israel has collapsed his standing with one of his key and previously most supportive subgroups, 18-to-29-year-old voters.”
Near the end there are these strange paragraphs:
“If Biden is struggling to restore his majorities among young voters, how is it that he remains competitive with Trump, running behind by 1.4 percentage points, according to the RealClearPolitics average of recent polls?
One reason is that the share of the electorate made up of the white working class, the core of Trump’s support, is steadily declining, while the number of college-educated white people, an increasingly strong source of Democratic support, is growing.”
In other words, in the next 6 months, the % of white working class voters is going to go down and the % of white college educated voters is going to go up. In the next 6 months? I can imagine that might be a long term trend (if true) but not one that is going to impact the next election.
As a separate observation, I think (with no proof whatsoever) Trump support (especially among the young) is under reported.
My view that it is all about feelings with esp single women (married women tend to be more like their husbands). Rationally, there is almost nothing to support the Dem side. Economics, taxing, illegal immigration, women’s sports, law and order, etc, Dems are on the wrong side of the argument. What they have going for them is that outwardly they are portrayed as nicer people (the reality is quite different, of course, with Trump, in person being far nicer than, say, FJB). Many of these are single women, who have to worry only about themselves. Their viewpoint often changes dramatically when they have children and a husband to worry about. But until then, feelz dominate.
Giving women the vote was clearly a failed experiment. Allowing them to hold public office... oh, brother!
Of course young men, who are themselves obnoxious, might not be troubled by Trump. Then again, they have been exposed to, if not raised in, Trumpism during most of their formative years. Anger and tossing insults is all they know, including what is exhibited in the leftist protests.
Just stopped by to see this Chuck character still playing the LLR card while exhibiting school girl emotions. As pathetic as ever.
Embarrassing compared to what?
For folks with Chuck's viewpoint (and he has every right to that viewpoint) I'm reminded of a tee shirt that was popular in South Los Angeles a few years back. It said, "It's a Black Thing--You Wouldn't Understand".
Yes there's a Trump wing--just like there's an Ilhan Omar-AOC-Bernie Sanders-Warren-Pelosi wing. And frankly I don't understand them (or those dingbats when I'm feeling grumpy) either.
So I'll wear my tee shirt for Chuck and his confreres: "It's A Conservative Thing--You Wouldn't Understand".
Sounds to me like NYT is sending out the message to young women how they are supposed to 'feel'
On a side note I see the old "there is no difference between the sexes, its nothing but cultual training" is dead. Or wait, that's exactly what they are doing, but instead of telling them the should feel maternal and its time to marry and start having babies, and be the class mom. They are telling them should feel like the Republicans are mean.
Regardless, the old thing about no difference between the sexes was always idiocy,
"Funny, I think of the left as chaotic and violent, a Trump more likely to bring law and order.
Though the left ain't gonna let that happen either."
The Left: "We want peace and stability and we're going to riot and tear down civil society if we don't get our way."
Gender is also playing a role in the college upheavals. Women, by far, are the motivators in the anti-Israel demonstrations, disruptions and college takeovers. Biden's finger-in-the-wind support of abortion may help him with young women, but his continued military aid to Israel will cancel it out.
Shorter Chuck
Screw agendas, get Trump at any cost. Its all about power, nothing about ideas.
So, Chuck has no respect for Trump voters, but he wants to "understand" them, just to persuade them not to vote for Trump or candidates who support his platform. So, when you hear that Trump voters want to build a wall and otherwise return to border enforcement, what does that say? I mean Biden can lie, and claim (as he did for 3 years) there is no crisis at the border, or that he will start enforcing the border, but is that going to work?
Same with voters who don't like Biden's proposal to enact an unlimited national abortion right, or his Title IX trans women in sports mandate or forcing all-electric cars on everyone, or shutting down coal and natural gas production, or endless wars on the Russian border and in the Mideast, or incompetence in Afghan withdrawal, or.... Persuading voters whose views you have contempt for is hard, especially for an incumbent with a record he can't effectively lie about. But at least Biden will always have Chuck.
Trump is only divisive to people who started it...
I have no interest in our leaders being palatable to people 'abroad'. These are the same people who have always criticized the US, taken a puff of their cigarette, then demanded money and/or military protection from us.
“Jersey Fled: What do women think Biden, or any President for that matter, is going to do about “abortion” when the Supreme Court has ruled that it is a matter for the individual states to decide?
“JK Brown: It's all about the feelz, boyz.”
As I still haven’t gotten an answer to this question after several tries, I can only conclude that Left leaning women who make abortion a top issue are either monumentally ill informed or really really stupid.
A third possibility is that they’re voting for Biden because they’re voting for Biden, and this is the best excuse they can think of.
"Young men are not as troubled by the chaotic and divisive style of Trump, while young women want people to be respected including themselves, want stability and are very concerned about division and the potential for violence.
So all those "young women" are vehemently opposed to the pro-Hamas campus riots, right?
The MSM focus is always on the sizzle and not the steak because Biden loses when you compare his policy to Trumps. Or compare his POTUS performance with that of Trump.
Stupid people, of course, care about "style", even though it has no bearing in the real world. Its a way of saying: "I dont care about real politics, so I'll vote for the guy I want to have a glass of wine with".
Often its a way for Republicans and so-called "Conservatives" with globalist/liberal views to justify being anti-Trump. For example, jonah goldberg has never been honest about why he hates trump. He blathers about Character, but he hates Trump for being against "Invade the world, invite the world". Same with Mitt Romney and Erick Erickson. Of course, lots of fake Conservatives gave that as their reason for opposing Trump in 2016, but many of them are now Joe Biden Democrats. So, with them, the "Character Matters" was just one more con to trap the gullible conservative rubes.
More on Mittens. His biographer spends 1/4 of the book talking about how much Mittens hates Trump. Mittens calls Trump every name in the book. Yet, never does Romney talk about what specific Trump policies he dislikes. That's because Mittens can't say "I hated Trump because he doesn't agree with Joe Biden, like I do".
Like several of the commenters, I think that allowing young unmarried women to vote is like asking a toddler whether they want ice cream or liver for dinner.
But I also think letting unmarried young men vote is a mistake. They can be every bit as self centered and foolish as a young woman.
In fact, the future belongs only to those who reproduce, and for maximal civilizational stability and sustainability, I would not allow childless spinsters and bachelors to vote no matter how old they get.
And I think allowing welfare chiselers to vote on how big a piece of the pie they get to eat after others bake it for them is the height of foolishness. No vote for wards of the State.
I propose restricting voting privileges only to those individuals who are married, widowed, or divorced, and have had at least one legitimate child born in wedlock. And one member of the couple must have been a net taxpayer for 3 of the past 5 years, or 20 years cumulatively, or has received an honorable discharge from the military.
My wife's "Outlander" fanaticism began about 2016, and I recall her complaining that her European fellow fans kept asking her to explain Trump and his appeal.
Being a cradle Dem, she couldn't, but the demonstration that they were as snared in the MSMSNBCIAFBI bunkum as so many Americans were (and are) was enlightening and discouraging at the same time.
"Younger men especially blue collar have a grudging respect for his strength and 'tell it like it is' attitude."
Whereas the women prefer weakness and lies. Got it.
Stability ain't free.
My wife is a partially red pilled liberal Democrat who despises Trump. She thinks he is an asshole and I agree. However, I will vote Trump for the third time.
She does not despise Biden, but she said she will not vote for him. Same thing with Kennedy.
If I had to bet, she will vote Democrat in 2024 because that is what "nice people" do.
Everyone see the photo of the Frat Boys putting up and protecting the American Flag? And all the pro-Hamas women throwing stuff at them?
This is where we are, America.
https://twitter.com/Oilfield_Rando/status/1785507599045087672
Shorter Chuck:
"I like getting fucked in the ass by Democrats."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Channels Maxwell Smart: “…and loving it!”
Young women can choose not to vote for Trump, because they think he is a sexist bully.
Just don't complain about the woman with a penis in the locker room calling you a TERF.
Without reading comments yet - young women don't typically want "people to be respected." They want a lack of conflict (or, if there is conflict, they want to believe they're on the correct side of the conflict, and they want lots of people agreeing with them and surrounding them so they're not isolated), and themselves to be deferred to personally. I remember exactly what that felt like.
The amazing thing to me, sometimes, is that young men's desire to have a mate - for however transient a period, thank you very much sexual revolution, is so strong that they'll put up with us at the most annoyingly demanding time in our lives.
Have the intelligence to discern the lesser of two evils, and the moral courage to do so, without checking with Taylor Seift or Bruce Springsteen.
Narr, that’s it! Trump is Jamie Fraser! Standing up for traditional Scottish values. Able to respect strong women, while not taking crap from them. Willing to submit to the most brutal tortures for his people.
That’s even better than Trump as the white Shaft!
Thank you!
JSM
Are the young women wanting to be respected the same who are part of hook up culture?
In an unguarded moment, I wonder if any of these young women would admit that Donald Trump in the abstract gives them a little fizzy in the crotch, but they would never admit it. Their experiences with men from their own peer group are likely feminized beta males who haven’t the nerve to tell them to pipe down, go make them a sandwich, and leave the politics to the men.
The 2020 election vs 2016 turned on small numbers of ballots in key states. The nation is quite evenly split in the electoral congress. The absolute percentages of support by demographic are not important, it is the change in percentages of support that counts. It would take a lot of “election reinforcement” for Democrats to survive a 5 pct shift.
Eventually white women and minorities will realize that there are not enough white men left from whom to take jobs and benefits from. If white men are only 30 pct they will all need to go to skid row to give preference to everyone else. And then white women will have to fight the minorities.
Democrats are really run by white men like Gates, Zuck, Fink, and Soros, not women, so it is largely a staged drama.
PA MI WI AZ and GA select the president of the US today, we don’t really need national polling anymore. The electoral congress will average around 290 vs 248 no matter which party wins, depending on how the swing states align. Recently the swing states have voted the same.
Jamie said...
“Without reading comments yet - young women don't typically want "people to be respected." They want a lack of conflict (or, if there is conflict, they want to believe they're on the correct side of the conflict, and they want lots of people agreeing with them and surrounding them so they're not isolated), and themselves to be deferred to personally. I remember exactly what that felt like.”
Yeah, that pegged my bullshit meter when I read it, too.
The stated reason is the excuse they give when they end up trying to “keep the peace” rather than do what’s right.
If "young women" had any fucking brains or a sense of personal accountability, they would finesse the abortion issue by getting and using birth control, which is both very cheap and effective.
Instead, they feel they can spread'em with abandon, then expect someone else to pick up the tab---not the father (how would they know which guy it was?), but "insurance".
Can anyone point to an example of men making the same kind of argument? And on a federal level, to boot?
Why didn't men historically fight against the military draft, claiming "My body, my choice", while the women stayed safely at home?
Why is it, to this day, that only men have to register for the draft?
I am THRILLED NOT to be a young woman today who wears pink pussy hats and threatens death to Israel and America whilst crying about not being able to get my 10th abortion paid for with Obamacare in any state I want, whenever I want.
Narr said...
My wife's "Outlander" fanaticism began about 2016, and I recall her complaining that her European fellow fans kept asking her to explain Trump and his appeal.
I was on a trip in mid 2017 where I was chatting with Europeans. One commented that he'd talked with a lot of Americans about Trump, and they all said they hadn't voted for him.
I replied that the kind of people who voted for Trump generally couldn't afford to fly off to Europe, which he conceded was a reasonable point. :-)
Trump is an a$$hole.
OTOH, I'm in I.T. I work with a lot of people who relate a lot better to machines than they do to people. I've learned that I'd rather work with someone who's an a$$ but is competent than a nice guy who doesn't know his $h!t.
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