११ एप्रिल, २०२४

"I myself have long been skeptical of the value of increasing turnout, and am also a longtime opponent of mandatory voting...."

"I think most people do not have a duty to vote, even in high-stakes elections. And I have argued that relatively ignorant citizens can often do more good by abstaining from voting than by casting poorly informed votes (though I am also skeptical of arguments that government should try to weed out ignorant voters, primarily because I doubt that it can be trusted to do so in an unbiased way).... I held those views back when increased turnout was generally believed to benefit Democrats, and I continue to hold them today."

Writes Ilya Somin, in "Increased Voter Turnout Now Benefits Republicans/Survey data shows relatively infrequent voters are significantly more likely to support the Trump-era GOP than those who vote more often. Will this change traditional left and right-wing attitudes towards mandatory voting and other policies intended to increase turnout?" (Reason).

ADDED: I've declined to vote a couple times, and I strongly defend the right to abstain. I responded to critics on November 3, 2020, in a post titled "I'll just say this once, Althouse. Abstaining from voting is neither courageous nor principled."
[V]oting is [not] a duty... Like speaking, like religion, like getting married, like having sexual relations, voting is a right, and a right entails the power to decline to exercise it. It is horrible to be forced to speak, forced to take on a religion, forced to get married, forced to have sex — these are loathsome impositions. 

४९ टिप्पण्या:

Achilles म्हणाले...

"Increased Voter Turnout Now Benefits Republicans/Survey data shows relatively infrequent voters are significantly more likely to support the Trump-era GOP than those who vote more often."

People who vote legally and vote once support Republicans.

"People" who mail in votes and vote more than once support Democrats.

There are also some stupid and evil people that support democrats, but there are only about 50 million of those.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

I have never been a fan of 'everyone voting,' and mandatory voting is just stupid.

The guy smoking crack and shitting on the sidewalk gets the same vote that you do.

How about you can't vote unless you pay net-positive taxes?

And one day to vote unless it's absentee backed up by a signature and foolproof ID.

A national holiday for voting. One day. Paper ballots.

We are one of the few countries in the world that does not require ID to vote.

We're a joke, but that's what the libs love as it makes cheating a breeze.

Achilles म्हणाले...

I also find it entertaining that Reason is now officially part of the Regime.

RMc म्हणाले...

Increased Voter Turnout Now Benefits Republicans

...which is why it should be stopped forthwith, QED.

Skeptical Voter म्हणाले...

One of they lyrics in "Springtime For Hitler" is "Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party."

Ilya is afraid that the stupid, the unwashed, the Deplorables will come out in force--and vote for the Bad Orange Man.

Opinions are like (you name the part of the anatomy) and everybody has one. Same goes for votes.

And our elites should rest uneasy in their beds, because at some point the ignorant rubes in flyover country will have had enough. They'll drain the swamp.

Drago म्हणाले...

This is precisely the scenario most dreaded by the GOPe, UniParty and dems.

If you find yourself asking why in the world the GOPe and their followers would be so adament about rejecting the very coalition that was outlined as necessary in the GOP 2012 Presidential election post-mortem analysis that could yield long term republican majorities, well.

Asking the question answers the question, now doesn't it?

Narayanan म्हणाले...

How about you can't vote unless you pay net-positive taxes?
=================
I am axually in favor of 100% deficit spending = no taxes at all = no need for 'elected' officials

ga6 म्हणाले...

"Weed Out"
As in the 1942 interview described to me by Joseph Rosenberg. Joseph was a French Jewish youth who was finally picked up by the Germans outside Paris. Put in line. a German Officer asking what is your trade?, laborers were sent to the right not to be seen again. Mechanics sent to the left, put to work in factories, Joseph survived.

Narayanan म्हणाले...

I also find it entertaining that Reason is now officially part of the Regime.
=================
I used to read with care and suspicion because they called it Reason

Tom T. म्हणाले...

Somin is an odd duck. Hard-core libertarian opposed to all immigration and zoning laws, but zealously supportive of the use of lawfare against Trump.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

It's a good time to reconsider allowing women to vote.

rehajm म्हणाले...

I recently defended your defense of the right to abstain…

Big Mike म्हणाले...

“i held those views back when increased turnout was generally believed to benefit Democrats, and I continue to hold them today."

Meanwhile I held the view that Ilya Somin is a liar, and I continue to hold that view today.

Michael Fitzgerald म्हणाले...

So up until this information came out about a week ago, Democrat Party members were steadfastly adamant that voting be made effortless, and special adaptations favored so that "people of color" would not be "disenfranchised" by, for example, standing in line. Anybody who opposed this lax enforcement of voting laws was derided as a racist, white supremacist, even if you were black.
Suddenly, because data indicates that Republicans might benefit from that policy, it changes 180 degrees to prevent "people of color" from voting- to save democracy...

Democrat Party members are absolutely unprincipled, braindead slaves.

Achilles म्हणाले...

Tom T. said...

Somin is an odd duck. Hard-core libertarian opposed to all immigration and zoning laws, but zealously supportive of the use of lawfare against Trump.

Somin is utterly predictable. He is a Uniparty Regime stooge pretending to be a Libertarian. Just like Democrats/Left Media and Romney Republicans/Fox are Uniparty Regime stooges.

The only difference between Somin and Chuck Todd is the people they are paid to lie too. They are bought and paid for by the same people.

John henry म्हणाले...

I am an abstainer myself most years. I vote, but I write my own name in, none of the above or cast a blank ballot.

I do think we have a moral obligation to show up at the polls and cast a ballot.

I do not think we have any obligation to vote for anyone.

John Henry

John henry म्हणाले...

Reason has not been the same since Virginia Postrel left. I used to subscribe. Now I don't pay it any attention at all.

John Henry

Rabel म्हणाले...

Somin has been banging this drum for a long time. The masses are too uninformed and ignorant (he can't say stupid but that's the root of it.)

He's not referring to you and those with your motivations, Althouse.

He's only a step or two removed from being a Czarist.

Drago म्हणाले...

John henry: "Reason has not been the same since Virginia Postrel left. I used to subscribe. Now I don't pay it any attention at all."
John Henry

Like so many other media entities (Weekly Standard, Drudge, National Review, etc) Reason has been compromised by big buck lefties.

Of course, the moron neocons at The Bulwark and The Lincoln Pedophile Project are simply far left and long ago abandoned their faux conservative schtick because no one was buying it.

Sincere congratulations still to Phil Anschutz for not allowing the loathsome Jonah Goldberg and Stephen Hayes to repurpose Weekly Standard data and lists for their sellout newsletter.

National Review is basically a subsidiary of the usual lefty billionaires.

Estoy_Listo म्हणाले...

I too abstain, but I always send an unchecked ballot, a no vote for both candidates; I believe that to be preferable to sending a write-in ballot.

gilbar म्हणाले...

this is ONLY true *IF* you allow the voter to choose their candidate.
The Modern Way, is to just have them sign the form..
IF the form gets signed.. Otherwise the harvester can just do it all themselves

mccullough म्हणाले...

Ilya Somin is an Open Borders fanatic

Like other libertarians, he is ignorant of human nature.

He’s a Russian with no sense of US identity because he sacrificed nothing for the United States.

It’s pointless to vote in US elections after the U.S. let in so many self centered ingrates like Somin.

Michelle Dulak Thomson म्हणाले...

Ilya Somin is writing as a member of the Volokh Conspiracy, which has for many years now been hosted by Reason. Just sayin'.

Somin has written a lot about "foot-voting," and also about rational "political ignorance." His positions there are that, as to the first, the best cure for misrule of any kind is for allowing people to depart wherever they are for a place with better governance; and as to the second, a lot of the time keeping abreast of political issues on any given scale might well not be worth a particular person's time. I'm not in full agreement with either position, but he does make out a good case for both.

I think people here accusing him of being GOPe, a stooge, &c. ought to read him more carefully.

As for this "new" information, it really isn't. People have been noticing larger minority and youth support for Trump for a couple of years now. The "new" part is just that (nominally "non-partisan") GOTV organizations have suddenly twigged that they might inadvertently be signing up a whole lot of likely Trump voters. Previously GOTV efforts, if kept to inner cities, college campuses, and the like, could pretty much be assured of registering essentially only Democratic voters. Now the odds are a lot less sure.

Jamie म्हणाले...

From the immortal Shrek, the OG:

Donkey: I have the right to remain silent! I have the right to remain silent!

Shrek: Donkey! You have the right to remain silent. What you lack... is the capacity.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

You go to your physician, and he gives you a bunch of tests. And after the results are in, you ask him, "Well, Doc, what is it?". And he replies,

"I'm pretty sure I know, but I want this to be a democratic diagnosis, so I am going to ask a couple million people chosen at random what they think."

"Gee, Doc. I feel better already!"

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

We're all so cute, pretending that voting really matters...

Michelle Dulak Thomson म्हणाले...

Drago,

You have three different cases there. The Weekly Standard is, of course, defunct. Drudge simply went haywire a long time ago, and went from being far-right (even I would've called it that) to far-left, practically overnight. National Review . . . well, I haven't actually seen a physical copy in some years (newsstands are pretty scarce around here; even in San Rafael there was one shop that reliably carried it), but "a subsidiary of the usual lefty billionaires"? Reason, same thing?

Jeez, what does it take to get you to read something? There are only a few right-leaning zines left, you know. They are either Jewish (e.g., Commentary), otherwise religious (e.g., First Things), or self-consciously highbrow (e.g., The New Criterion). Or are you into the Spectator (either the American or the quite different UK one), or perhaps those sort-of-sibling papers, the NY Post and the Daily Mail? Because there isn't much else left, unless you count modern-day equivalents of Der Stuermer (they do exist, though so far I've never seen a copy).

RCOCEAN II म्हणाले...

A non-vote is a vote for the status quo. but I don't mind people not voting. In fact, if you're a low information voter you shouldn't vote.

What upsets me are assholes like Bush or Romney or Pence who vote for their wives or some such nonsense. Just be honest Nevertrumpers and vote for Biden. Its a binary choice. If you are a prominent person who criticizes Trump and you're supposedly on "Team Republican" - then you're supporting Biden. Because logically if all Republican voted for their wives, biden would win.

Its a typically dishonest, weasel way of behaving. It should cost them, but then Conservatives are stupid.

Lincolntf म्हणाले...

I have never found it honorable to abstain from voting, no matter how distasteful the choices may be. People will potentially be sent to war, imprisoned, etc. based on who you didn't vote for. Separating oneself from real life consequences doesn't mean you didn't influence them.

Anthony म्हणाले...

Jamie, I've always wanted to see a scene in a cop movie or tv show where the cops have a suspect who keeps yammering on and annoying the cops, and one of them turns to the suspect and says, with a growl, "You have the right to remain silent. NOW USE IT!".

Craig Mc म्हणाले...

I'm a big believer in mandatory voting (we have it here - even for city/council elections).

Mandatory voting, with strictly limited absentee voting, displaces vote fraud to the point of insignificance.

It also means the votes of activists/grifters are swamped by those of normies.

Ask yourself, what's the largest perceived problem with American elections today?

Mikey NTH म्हणाले...

Not voting is a form of voting. Perhaps the polisci guys ought to be looking up and intetviewing those registered voters that haven't voted and ask why.

Howard म्हणाले...

If the GOPe and the Democrats are the UniParty, that makes the followers of Trump the SoloParty.

Josephbleau म्हणाले...

In a 2 party race, if you vote for someone you have 2 votes, you add to the total of the one you vote for and subtract from the total of the one you did not vote for. If you don't vote, you have one vote, you subtract from the total of the one you would have voted for.

If you are strictly agnostic and don't vote, you may say you have zero votes, because there is zero probability either one would have gotten your vote and you are thus not a member of the voting population.

I consider forced voting to be a violation of free speech, and a matter of slavery. But in national service there have been drafts for soldiers and jurors, so it is constitutional to have slavery.

J Melcher म्हणाले...

I vote for John Henry's approach.

One drawback to any machine voting is the difficulty -- even impossibility -- of registering a write-in vote. In my opinion, a fanatic one-issue voter supporting a lunatic candidate ought to have the option to write that name in on EVERY race. AOC or MTG or who ever. AOC for president, AOC again for senator, AOC for house, AOC for state governor (even if it's not her state) AOC for local judge, AOC for mayor, AOC for school board ... Or Sarah Palin or Ross Perot (I see no reason Ross's present health status incapacitates the candidate much more than Joe Biden's health does him) This allows fanatics to blow off steam safely and registered a kind of support and preference in the political record that is now muffled.

Mandatory voting has attractions, but IF that becomes the procedure, then a "not of the above" option must be available to those who comply with the mandate.

Drago म्हणाले...

MDT: "Jeez, what does it take to get you to read something?"

What a bizarre question and seemingly completely disconnected to what I wrote.

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

People who complain about other people who don't vote are usually doing so because their candidate lost. That says something to me.

gilbar म्हणाले...

somebody "cleverly" said...
I too abstain, but I always send an unchecked ballot..

you DO Realize, Don't you?
that in the event of a recount, they will "determine" who they think you "meant" to mark down?
because; THAT is what they do

gilbar म्हणाले...

interestingly enough; they ALWAYS "determine" that a blank ballot MEANT to vote for the dem

mikee म्हणाले...

I voted for Bernie in the 2020 primary, and I'd do it again. That was a lot more fun than abstaining from the primary altogether.

Narayanan म्हणाले...

Mandatory voting, with strictly limited absentee voting, displaces vote fraud to the point of insignificance.
=================
what is the difference between Mandatory voting, and every vote must be garnered?

unless in person voting!

Narayanan म्हणाले...

I too abstain, but I always send an unchecked ballot, a no vote for both candidates;
=================
better to check all boxes rather than foolishly give someone a blank ballot to manipulate

Ralph L म्हणाले...

This brings to mind Saki's anti-suffragette story of The Great Weep, which I doubt could be published today.
Hermann the Irascible

JRoj म्हणाले...

To vote under the current circumstances implies a belief in and approval of the system as operating. Further, the inference many will draw is you voted under these circumstances therefore you must accept the results produced. That’s a nope and nope. Not participating in a public confidence charade.

Jersey Fled म्हणाले...

I would vote for myself except I really don’t want the job.

iowan2 म्हणाले...

Voting needs to be in person, or, by mailed in request. Early in person voting works.

I wouldn't mind if the voter rolls were zeroed out and everyone was required to register to vote every 15 years or so.

ONE simple step should have been in place 100 years ago

The Number of votes CAST... announced and unchangeable, 30 minutes after the polls close. The idiocy of allowing "found" ballots to be counted must end. The State of Illinios should be able to announce the total votes cast within 30 minutes of polls being closed.

iowan2 म्हणाले...


Blogger Howard said...

If the GOPe and the Democrats are the UniParty, that makes the followers of Trump the SoloParty.


One data point, an NPR Marist poll I found showed over 90% of registered Republicans support Trump.
There is another data point called the Primary Election, that showed massive support of Trump.

What data point do you use to claim Trump somehow identify Trump supporters as the solo party?

You are a great Democrat. Exhibiting the delusion of your dreams while ignoring reality.

Achilles म्हणाले...

Howard said...
If the GOPe and the Democrats are the UniParty, that makes the followers of Trump the SoloParty.

Good of you to notice.

Vivek and Trump represent the people in politics who aren’t owned and manipulated by money.

Everyone else in politics opposes them for a reason. This election will be defined as Trump vs. Corruption for a reason.

lonejustice म्हणाले...

Voter turnout in North Korea is 99 percent.