Writes Gary Shteyngart, in "Crying Myself to Sleep on the Biggest Cruise Ship Ever/Seven agonizing nights aboard the Icon of the Seas" (The Atlantic).
[M]any admirable writers have widened and diversified the genre.... To badly paraphrase Adorno: After this, no more cruise stories. It is unfair to put a thinking person on a cruise ship. Writers typically have difficult childhoods, and it is cruel to remind them of the inherent loneliness that drove them to writing in the first place. It is also unseemly to write about the kind of people who go on cruises. Our country does not provide the education and upbringing that allow its citizens an interior life. For the creative class to point fingers at the large, breasty gentlemen adrift in tortilla-chip-laden pools of water is to gather a sour harvest of low-hanging fruit.
Shteyngart pinpoints the problem with his essay, as he steers the unwieldy vessel into the nearest bridge pier.
The referenced Adorno quote — which never appears in the article — is "There can be no poetry after Auschwitz." That's my link, not Shteyngart's. He credits the reader with already knowing the quote (or he tasks those of us who are ignorant of it with the task of finding it for ourselves or shrugging it off as not worth knowing).
My link goes to a philosophy subreddit, where someone writes:
Poetry, an art of hinting at something, allusion through metaphor etc. cannot adequately express the reality of the industrialization of the murder of millions of people. For Adorno, a type of sparse, realistic prose, almost like a listing of facts, might however be able to be a testimony to the extremely horrible reality of Auschwitz....
Shteyngart is analogizing — "badly"!! — essay writing to poetry, and a cruise ship to Auschwitz.
About Shteyngart, per Wikipedia:
Born Igor Semyonovich Shteyngart (Russian: Игорь Семёнович Штейнгарт) in the Soviet Union, he spent the first seven years of his childhood living in a square dominated by a huge statue of Vladimir Lenin in what is now St. Petersburg—which he alternately calls "St. Leningrad" or "St. Leninsburg". He comes from a Jewish family, with an ethnically Russian maternal grandparent, and describes his family as typically Soviet.
The "Crying Myself to Sleep" essay is loaded with discussion of class politics — the class politics of a giant cruise ship. Comical, be assured.
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I'm glad the author recognized the problem with these sort of columns: Punching down. Its never a good look when smart people or people with wealth and power mock those who have neither. Nor is it a good look when sophisicates mock the rubes.
I've never been on a cruise, or rather my wife and I have never been on one. She doesn't like crowds, but if she changes her mind, then I will be dragged along. Hopefully, she will pick a cruise that is small, and full of introverts dedicated to enjoying the sea air and relaxing in their cabins. As opposed to a monster cruiseline full of noisy people. overcrowded pools, and hectic "activities" that we're constantly being called to join.
Large numbers of people don't mind standing in line, or crowds. In fact they enjoy it. And I don't. Because I just don't. I wont even stand in line to wait for a cafe table to open up, to the chagrin of my wife.
Am I wrong in assuming that this is a New Yorker with an Oberlin degree in his back pocket, looking down his nose at those 'other' people? I'm not one to talk. I would never consider going on a large ship cruise, but I know dozens of people who love them enough to do it multiple times. They always come back to me with stories about the food, the drinks, the food, the drinks, and one of them got sick. I've long thought that someday I might consider a river cruise except that river cruising has gotten so busy, so jammed up that some Europeans are looking to limit the number of river cruise ships allowed around certain areas- which can ruin a cruise.
I dunno. Being locked up on a ship with 5,000 other passengers and hundreds of crew members looking to steal your goods or grope your wife does not sound like a fun thing to me. Quick stops for a few hours in a major city is not actually 'seeing' that city, or getting to know it's people.
But again- many people love cruises. Many also love Hip-Hop. Many voted for Joe Biden. Many others voted for Trump. We come in all shapes and sizes.
Love the Ayn Rand dig, which is somehow like a sign from the left that they think you are an idiot for reading Rand. Despite our government and the world today looking like it uses Atlas Shrugged as an operations manual. She was not a prose writer. But her ideas were prescient. And continue to be shown to be correct.
Evidently, snobbery knows no bounds. Such disgusting unearned faux elitism.
I like idea of crossing the Atlantic in one of Queen Oceanliner, for some reason. But on the whole river cruises seem more attractive. Stopping every AM at some town/city and doing things. The Danuabe, the Rhine, the Mekong, etc.
I used to watch Gene Shalit, the movie critic on the Today Show, because I knew if he liked a movie, I wouldn't. It worked.
My goodness, what a dour stuck up elitist. Why anyone would entertain a second on conversation with this person is beyond me.
"Our country does not provide the education and upbringing that allow its citizens an interior life."
Oh, FFS!
@RCOCEAN II, I would ditto that. We went on an oceanic cruise a few years ago, and I was 'Meh'. I knew I wasn't going to like the feeling of being constantly processed - but it was Alaska, and we were with friends, and there were enough off-ship activities to keep me satisfied. I wouldn't do it again though.
But: We did the Danube last year. Smaller boat (~100 passengers), much better food & service, and a new town every single day, and again, with friends. I enjoyed this, particularly the wealth and saturation of history and art, everywhere. And great beer. I might do that again.
With all due respect to Auschwitz, why was it so vastly more horrible than, say, the Black Plague, the Battle of the Somme, the Mongol Conquest of Baghdad, the smallpox epidemic of the Americas or any of any number of previously unimaginable horrors that humans have been afflicted with or have afflicted upon themselves. There's something grandiose about singling out this particular horror and claiming that it trumps all past and future horrors....Adorno clearly never had to travel on a cruise ship with fat Republicans.
For some reason I keep bumping up against commercials/mailers for Viking Cruises.
Something about their laws of inheritance encouraging that sort of thing and the peculiar suitability of the Scandinavian longship.
There's an old cartoon by B.Kliban of Vikings raiding a village, making off with the women, except for one guy. He's spotted by one of the other Vikings and the caption reads: A chicken?! A chicken is pillage?! The Jewishness adds a nice touch.
First published in Playboy, I suspect.
I have read two of Shteyngart's novels and liked them both. I also have been on two cruises in my life - and enjoyed them as well.
" .... the industrialization of the murder of millions of people."
Never happened, of course. But it makes for some good movies. And billions in reparations!
Neither my wife nor I have any desire to cruise on the ocean, and the commercials we see--even for the high-toned Viking trips--don't sway us.
OTOH, we took a Viking cruise on the Elbe in 2019, and think about doing the Danube in the future even though I'd rather have the flexibility of driving and staying where we want for as long as we want. We got the extra days on both ends, but three or four days is still not long to spend in a great city like Berlin or Prague.
The full and half-day excursions mean a lot of bus time, too.
The other passengers were fine--educated and at least somewhat conversant with European history and art, though there were quite a few spouses merely along for the ride.
My wife departs for a week in Paris (the one in France) on Wednesday . . . If I ever endure another long flight, it'll have to be for something more than a week in a single place.
Sounds like he wrote the article before he even stepped on board. Whether it's Royal Caribbean or The Atlantic, give the people what they want.
i always felt that Jerome K. Jerome did the most best cruise ship treatment
…the fact that my finances improved after pass-through corporations were taxed differently under Donald Trump.
So did Joe Biden’s. But Biden structured his affairs that way to avoid paying his “fair share” of employment taxes, even before any change in tax treatment under Trump.
One cannot blame these poor, ignorant, fat loser idiots from flyover country for being ignorant idiots - the education system in this country is subpar and they are from a lesser class, after all, right Lovey?
How do I know they are idiots? Well they read Ayn Rand, and probably voted for Trump! Ghastly!
" .... the industrialization of the murder of millions of people."
Never happened, of course. But it makes for some good movies. And billions in reparations!
Wait, are you saying that the Holocaust didn't happen?
Shteyngart pinpoints the problem with his essay, as he steers the unwieldy vessel into the nearest bridge pier.
classic, this is why I love you
With all due respect to Auschwitz, why was it so vastly more horrible than, say, the Black Plague, the Battle of the Somme, the Mongol Conquest of Baghdad, the smallpox epidemic of the Americas or any of any number of previously unimaginable horrors that humans have been afflicted with or have afflicted upon themselves.
Some of these are different in that they happened through nature, and were not planned by men (e.g., plague and smallpox, which wiped out a significant number of people in the Americas well before anyone thought to deliberately weaponize it). Others, like the Battle of the Somme, were the result of armies fighting each other, which is for some reason deemed societally/civilizationally acceptable. The sacking of Baghdad was pretty horrible, but was the result of a battle and took place in a single spot in a relatively short period of time.
The Holocaust differs because it did not occur in the throes of military conquest, but rather was conceived by an outwardly-appearing civilized society, was directed against an ethnicity (or several ethnicities and religions) that included people both in conquered territory and in Germany proper; was conducted in an assembly-line fashion; was captured on film; and (perhaps most importantly) the country committing the genocide lost the war.
I would suggest it is more similar to the Rwandan genocide or the deliberate starvations of Armenia and Ireland (to name but a few), and for whatever reason these events tend to be consigned to the "dustbin of history" - probably because the offending nation remained in power.
Steyngart ignored the first and best of the genre, "Innocents Abroad". My husband and I quote it often: "Our friends the Bermudians".
In winter one can take the QE2 either to or from England for around $600 in an inside cabin. Rough seas. But then three meals a day, an historic liner. Way cheaper than staying home. Three name novelist is fading from sight. One of the most overrated
I'll be on a cruise next week. The best part is knowing readers of The Atlantic will be avoiding the experience, which will make the trip infinitely more enjoyable.
It's all virtue and class signaling.
These are the same people who don't know anyone who owns a pickup truck and who wouldn't be caught dead at a county fair, the ultimate in Americana...
Ann, you forgot a reference to My Dinner with Andre.
I love all the indignation here over Shteyngart's article.
When I first saw pictures of the Icon of the Seas a few weeks ago, the absurdity of it and what goes on there is exactly what immediately struck me.
I come from simple folks, people who consider going on a cruise - preferably one with a big water slide; non-stop feeding; third rate comedy shows and revues; and "seeing" Mexico for a couple hours from the perspective of cheesy restaurants and souvenir shops in Mazatlan, to be the pinnacle of travel. And I hold them in great respect. But they are not infallible and they, just like any group, do things that are lampoon-worthy. And all that cruise stuff is amusing. I, firsthand, know about that, too.
I rather imagine that I would not be attracted to Gary Shteyngart; pretty sure in fact that I wouldn't like him at all. But the guy is a writer, well known to be a satirist, and he was assigned and paid to go write about this, from all outward appearance, ridiculous ship. What was he supposed to do - write a Rick Steves book?
His piece on the Icon of the Sea was amusing and apt.
And it didn't hurt anyone. My people tend to not be readers of The Atlantic, y'know?
"Steyngart ignored the first and best of the genre, "Innocents Abroad"..."
Good point.
Our country does not provide the education and upbringing that allow its citizens an interior life.
I, like my family (all citizens) before me, have an interior life. Is that not allowed?
I'll be on a cruise next week. The best part is knowing readers of The Atlantic will be avoiding the experience, which will make the trip infinitely more enjoyable.
Ha. From reading other comments, looks like a European River cruise would be enjoyable, the transatlantic crossing inexpensive. A co-worker loved her Volga cruise, but looking at the map that would involve a lot of Steppe like terrain that looks rather dull. Other possibilities: Amazon or Nile cruises. Although Nile would probably just be a lot of Desert.
@Temujin,
“But again- many people love cruises.”
My wife and I also love cruises for multiple reasons. We cruised 49 days last year, it was great. And yes, it’s not for everyone. Shteyngart wasn’t looking for a good time, he was looking for material to write an article that would please his readership and he probably succeeded. I bought some Royal Caribbean stock 18 months ago, it’s up 126%, I assume some smart people think the industry provides a service that many people want. Can’t wait for our next cruise in May. I talk to the crew a lot, the room stewards, food servers, etc. They don’t make a lot of money but most of them seem to like the work. I ask them if they want to become American citizens and surprisingly most say no, especially the Filipinos. Most of them are saving to buy a house back home. Apparently they don’t have a mortgage system like we do, they have to pay cash to build a home. I always tip them well. One thing Shteyngart got right is that a lot of cruisers are, like me, veterans. I wonder why that is.
Couldn't access, but probably would have been too deep for me anyway. Did Gary update his readership on how his shteyner is doing?
Caesar killed millions , it is estimated, in his conquest of Gaul, the Romans made a technology out of killing, and plenty of good poetry has been written since.
Many years ago I recall receiving a fantastic brochure for high-end luxury "cruises" on large yachts the size of small ships, with the crews consisting of experienced sailors who were also gourmet chefs and/or knowledgeable tour guides, travelling to out-of the ordinary places. The groups were limited to numbers ranging from a half-dozen to 20 or so. The trips were way out of our price range, but looked incredible; I was particularly struck by one which sailed along the Turkish Mediterranean coast (this was before Turkey became as anti-Western as it seems to be Today).
I think I got the brochure because I subscribe to Woodenboat magazine, which appeals to to the people who can afford to buy the fabulous yachts that are restored and/or built as well as the rest of us who build the small stuff and drool over the rest.
A trip like that would appeal to me; except that the very high possibility of having at least one gigantic asshole on board weighs against it. Also mucho $$$.
My wife and I recently purchased a Winnebago ($100k) for the purpose of occasionally (5-6x/yr) driving to RV sites with good access to hiking (a rare use of RVs as it turns out) - next week ZION. We haven't interacted much with other RVers, but were surprised to find that our little Winnie is typically the poor cousin in the campground.
The Shteyngart essay was a lot of fun; read it just for the class /cult aspects. There must be people who almost live on these cruise boats, just like the many who spend most of the back part of their lives at RV campsites.
In defense of the RVers - pretty sure I could leave gold bars outside our W and noone would take them. Its like being in a 1950s Leave it to Beaver neighborhood, but with the West Temple in the background.
Until a few years ago, Viking offered cruises in Russia and Ukraine . . . but they no longer do.
If there's no wider war or other catastrophe, Elbe and Danube cruises will probably continue.
'Although Nile would probably just be a lot of Desert.'
That is usually included with the buffet...I really love the pie selection...
GS is a decent writer. But he’s got the myopia of New York. DFW was a midwesterner. He understood that writing about Taking a cruise or visiting the state fair would get him published in the New York rags. But his articles always kicked them in the balls a bit too.
GS is a provincial Jewish New Yorker through and through.
One of Shteyngart's points is that writers shouldn't go on cruises. Wrong--he just picked the wrong cruise. My husband and I are both writers and got a lot of work done on 2-week Crystal cruise to Hawaii. (Lucky us, like Shteyngart we were paid to go as speakers; unlike him our cabin definitely did not total $19K.)
I'm looking forward to a transatlantic crossing on the Queen Mary II this summer: 8 days to read, walk, look at the sea, plus, if I'm in the mood, go to their planetarium or hear a lecture or take watercolor classes. Food and drink will be fine. My daughter and I are doing the eastbound route, from Brooklyn to Southampton, where you lose an hour a day, but no scrum at JFK and Heathrow and no jet lag. Interesting, she is very keen on this low-tech ship, particularly its library of about 10,000 nonschlocky books.
The cost for our 2d lowest fare cabin is the same as a business class flight. Although we will have to pay extra for drinks and very basic wifi, that shouldn't be a ton and is definitely not a dealbreaker.
I took a cruise a few years ago, from Montreal to Boston, as a member of the Mark Steyn Club. I was by myself, but not lonesome; there was good food, great views, stop-offs at various ports (Quebec City, Bar Harbor, &c.), a day or two with no stops. And a lot of congenial company. Most of the time I spent in my room or walking round the decks or up on top or in the atrium (heated pool, giant sculpture of a California sea lion). Looking out the window, reading, listening to classical CDs. And attending Steyn's lectures and discussions, of course. It was great fun, of a relaxing sort.
We resisted cruises (thought we'd be bored and stir-crazy) until our son was about to start college in Seattle; then we went as a family on one of the Alaska cruises, a theoretical family "last hurrah." To our surprise, we all enjoyed it a ton - beautiful scenery, ready availability of food for 3 teenagers and better food in the specialty restaurants, and my husband is a travel agent wannabee who planned all our offshore excursions, so we didn't have to pile into the cruise-affiliated buses.
Since then we've been on three others, including one Med cruise that took off from Venice and stopped at several Greek islands - in October, so, no summer crowds. Beautiful! And took our parents on the one cruise that takes place entirely in Hawaii, island-hopping - the Napali coast alone made that one worthwhile.
We've almost never attended the big entertainment things (some of the individual musicians and small ensembles in bars and such have been fun) and have been on only one cruise-sponsored shore excursion. We hated the one "private island" experience in the Caribbean and determined never to do that again - if we ever go on another cruise with one of those, we'll just stay on the ship that day. You can be as much in the crowd as you prefer - our preference is as little as possible, so we have arranged our days and nights this way. One thing I enjoy is that while we're at sea, either at night or on those sea-days, there's nothing I have to do, so I have unfettered time to read or talk with my husband. How often is that true in my everyday life?
I also - just to give him an idea for another piece - love going to the Houston Rodeo, though I hate crowd; I stake out a table in the wine bar and enjoy the bands and the people-watching, and the occasional conversation with the people at the next table.
The ennui of the "elite" is so... tedious.
"Wait, are you saying that the Holocaust didn't happen?"
Certainly not at Auschwitz, anyway.
Thanks Nancy, I thought I was the only one to remember innocents abroad but you beat me to it.
I liked his description of his cabin. I don't remember much about the book after 40-50 years but I do remember this for some odd reason.
Notwithstanding all this
furniture, there was still room to turn around in, but not to swing a cat
in, at least with entire security to the cat.
The point of a cruise is to meet other people learn about them visit other places and try not to overeat
Jupiter's link goes to long-winded tripe.
Frasier: Voyage of the Damned. One of the more memorable episodes.
He sounds horrible
Virgil sadi..
a rare use of RVs as it turns out .. We haven't interacted much with other RVers,
you Might TRY interacting.. i'm pretty sure your idea of "rare" is distorted
Personally I don't want to ride a floating hotel after going to sea with 5,000 of my closest friends on an aircraft carrier. That being said, I'm sure I could have a really good time on a cruise ship if I could abuse my expense report to the tune of $19,000 the way that writer did.
O sweet baby Jesus! I had no idea that Ron Unz had gone so thoroughly off the deep end. I see that John Derbyshire also has a new home. I knew Unz hitherto only as the funder behind CA's Prop 227. By the time I had gotten through 2/3 of his unmitigated bilgewater (I hadn't the heart to go on), it was obvious that the man was and is, well, round the twist, to put it as politely as possible.
Jupiter is saying that one of history’s most documented events - in history! - didn’t happen. The balls on that guy. I remember when people tried to hide that they hate Jews.
"Jupiter is saying that one of history's most documented events - in history - didn't happen."
OTOH, the first time I remember correcting him was when he ventured--with evident certainty--that Ike had deliberately starved millions of German soldiers to death in the summer of 1945.
He thought it was true, but he didn't know where he had got the info--I had to tell him that it was known as the Bacque Thesis, and had been eviscerated by actual, you know, historians.
Innocents Abroad may or may not be the genesis of the genre, but it's the antithesis of Shteyngart's Atlantic article. Twain punched up, not down.
I was a cruise ship snob. Then my sister-in-law got her three sisters (one, my wife) to agree to an Alaskan cruise as a venue for our yearly “Sisters trip.” I reluctantly went along with the idea … and loved the whole thing. A cruise ship is the perfect venue for couples like the four of us to spend a few hours a day together, eat the evening meal together, and have private space. And it’s reasonably priced. Alaska was magnificent.
After Alaska we did a Christmas markets tour down the Danube. Had walking tours of German and Austrian towns every day. I actually lost three pounds in six days. Wonderful time, great food, lots of history, mediocre entertainment, and well worth it.
This past fall we tried again, a northeastern US/Canadaian “color” cruise. It was … okay. Just okay. For one thing, no color. None. Early October is too early. But it was reasonably priced, the sisters and their guys had good times, and so, not bad.
That’ll be it for us on cruise ships. But for couples in our situation, it really has advantages. And no cooking or restaurant hunting. That’s really nice.
Look, guys. The "curators" at the Auschwitz site in Poland now admit that the "gas chamber" that was supposedly used to murder six million innocents, mostly Jews, was built after the war. That is settled. Look it up.
There are numerous "survivors" of the "Holocaust". WTF does that mean? How does someone "survive" not merely one, but two, or three, "Death Camps"? If, in fact, the NAZIs developed a system of lethal camps, whose sole purpose was to eliminate humans, why did they send people from one camp, to another camp, to yet another camp?
Look, the "Killing Fields" in Cambodia actually took place. At least, I'm prepared to accept that, as a working hypothesis. There are mounds of skulls. But the Holocaust is a lie, promulgated for various reasons, by various liars. Why no mounds of skulls?
Ask yourself; Why exactly do I believe this thing happened? Because I was told it happened? Who told you that? What else did they tell you?
"He thought it was true, but he didn't know where he had got the info--I had to tell him that it was known as the Bacque Thesis, and had been eviscerated by actual, you know, historians."
Well. If your historians, unlike mine, are "actual, then I suppose I must concede, that your history, unlike mine, is also "actual".
And. History is not written by the victors. History is written by "actual" historians.
But there is no conceivable way that the German government killed "six million Jews". And, if that did not, in fact, take place, why are so many people demanding that we agree that it did? Why is it illegal, in most European nations, to say otherwise? Can you think of any other generally agreed, historic fact, that it is illegal to contradict? Can you think of any conceivable justification for passing such laws? The myth of the Holocaust is the template for the Leftist assault on the West. Perhaps the liars began with the truth, but I see no reason to assume that. To the contrary. Examine the evidence.
You know, I pick these fights, so everyone can see how completely lame the opposition is. OF COURSE, various propaganda consumers are going to regurgitate the propaganda. Some are part of the hoax, and others are victims. It is not easy to say, which group is more determined to support the narrative. As Twain supposedly said, it is much easier to deceive people, than to convince them, that they have been deceived.
Gilbar, that's why I don't go on cruises. My dog.
"But there is no conceivable way that the German government killed 'six million Jews.'"
Well, OK then.
You keep chasing your tail.
It is helpful when individuals expose themselves for what they are. Saves a bit of time reading the comments.
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