"U.S. security officials said they believed it was carried out by a branch of the terrorist group known as the Islamic State in Khorasan, or ISIS-K, which has been active in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. But there were some signs that Russia might try to pin blame for the attack on Ukraine, despite the claim of responsibility. The F.S.B., Russia’s domestic intelligence agency, issued a statement on Saturday saying that the attackers had planned to escape to Ukraine 'and had contacts on the Ukrainian side,' according to the Russian state media. Kyiv has denied any involvement and American officials have said there is no evidence that Ukraine played a role...."
The NYT reports on the Moscow concert hall attack.
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९४ टिप्पण्या:
If you really believe that daesh did this, I have some water to sell your fish and some smoke to sell your chimney on volume not weight and at rock bottom prices. Would you like beachfront property in Arizona? Cause this baby (slaps hoods) has all the bells and whistles!
They caught one of them. One of the FSB he was surrounded by says in the background in Russian "fucking Armenian piece of shit". He's shaking because he knows theyre about to feed him his ears and find and dissolve his family in a vat of sulfuric acid, if he has one.
There are things that will happen, things we cannot predict, that will change the course of the world in the upcoming year(s). Some, those in the business of studying what is going on in dark corners, those with access to information, might have seen this coming. From what I've heard, we did see this one coming, and the info was passed on. But much like 9/11 to us, the Russians seem to have either not taken is seriously, or just didn't follow up on it.
But there are places we cannot see. Groups who stay in the dark. In a world that is now fully based on electronic communication, it's quite easy to disappear by simply not using those electronics to communicate, moving under the radar so to speak. We are dependent on them using the electronics. So...more and more, I'm feeling that there is a world change coming. Something we cannot predict. Something that will grab hold of all of us and make us understand that we are going to have to stop playing around with people who demand you honor their new pronoun. And those decrying Western Civilization might have to make a choice.
Particularly with the Biden policy of wide open borders, I feel we're staring down the barrel of a large incident here at home.
Ukraine is careful to strike only military targets in Russia. Shooting up a rock concert is not their style.
It is shocking how short attention spans are. Russia launched 40 Kalibrs at Kiev not even 72 hours ago and half of Ukraine is without power. But no....this is terrorism perpetrated by a bunch of Caucasians wearing Paraclete RAVs in multicam by what is now the least powerful militant faction is Syria.
Logic has no mouth, but it must scream.
I don’t believe anybody. None of them.
Motive unknown (TM)
It couldn't be Muslims. It is Ramadan. They wouldn't be violent during the holy month.
The Russians claim that the terrorists were caught on their way back to Ukraine, and the town were they were supposedly caught was on a direct route to Ukraine.
The Russians have been claiming since 2022 that the US has been sending ISIS fighters to Ukraine. ISIS is that handy terrorist outfit that seems to attack only when and where it is helpful to the CIA. For instance, in Syria we invaded, on the strength of a "finding" signed by Obama, Syria, in order to "fight ISIS" when really we are fighting Syria. "ISIS" also most recently was blamed for a terrorist attack in Iran on a natural gas pipeline. That's a pretty funny bunch of Islamist terrorists who only seem to attack countries helpful to, for example, the Palestinians. But I am pretty sure this attack is on behalf of those celebrating it most loudly, and that would not be in Arab capitals.
I like these kinds of moments though, where we can note what was said by the various parties, and wait for time to tell the truth, so that we can judge their credibility. My money is not on the New York Times reporting, but, since this is totally out of my hands as a normie American, I have no choice but to wait, and eventually, I am thinking, we will see who the liars are. Or probably we won't, since whatever the Russians say will be called lies, regardless.
If you want to get way out on a speculative limb, Ambassador Stevans was said to have been in Benghazi to buy up some of the Soviet weapons that were floating around after the overthrow of Gaddafi by NATO, to send to Syria to arm rebels there, and who pops up in Syria but ISIS. We saw some emails of Hillary's that showed that Ms "We came! We saw! He died! (chortle, guffaw)" Clinton was heavily involved in Libya (Hillary's War) and Syria.
It's not speculative to note that invasion of Libya by NATO was taken as a signal by Russia that NATO was an aggressive military alliance. And the unprovoked US invasion of Syria, on top of Iraq,f hardened that perception, and made war over NATO in Ukraine inevitable.
"Logic has no mouth, but it must scream."
This is a great line. The idea that ISIS would attack a friend of the Palestinians, one with a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, is absurd, unless, of course, ISIS is controlled by us or one of our close allies.
"Kyiv has denied any involvement and American officials have said there is no evidence that Ukraine played a role...."
Of course.
The Russians are going to target the terrorists' families. Family members are treated like accomplices. The terrorist families are going to suffer. According to the NY Times:
It is the signature, though officially unacknowledged, policy behind Moscow’s counterinsurgency and counterterrorism strategies… In the conflict that began in Chechnya and has since metastasized into a loosely organized Islamic rebellion throughout the Caucasus region, Russian security services routinely arrest, torture and kill relatives, rights groups say.
So that's going to happen. I don't know, maybe the Russians are right? It is pretty obvious that kids have a habit of imitating their parents' criminal behavior. In the United States, according to Harvard Law School, less than 10% of families account for close to 70% of all criminals. That's not surprising. Why would it be any different for Muslim kids with terrorist parents?
Anyways, this is likely the inspiration behind Donald Trump's 2016 campaign promise to implement a "strategy of targeting the family members of terrorists." He was widely criticized and didn't do it as President. Obama and Bush would routinely wipe out entire families to get at a single terrorist and they're thought of as great heroes. Like entire families attending wedding ceremonies! But Trump shoots his mouth off and we never hear the end of it.
Why do news agencies keep using the word 'responsibility' when someone claims to have been behind the attack. They are claiming credit, not responsibility. They want the notoriety, fame, or whatever positive outcomes they can get. Otherwise, why do it?
This was so predictable—when in doubt, always blame the country you invaded that refuses to be assimilated.
Who's "celebrating it most loudly," Tim? Can you share some links documenting that celebration?
"unless, of course, ISIS is controlled by us or one of our close allies."
Gee. Wonder who that could be? Hmm. Which ally of the USA does daesh hate with a passion incandescent as the sun but have never attacked? I mean they attacked everyone else...maybe them thar newfangled quantum computin' gadgets could get to the bottom of this here headscratcher.
Occam's Razor suggests this was the Ukrainians, not ISIS, but we can wait for more details.
"Motive unknown (TM)"
It couldn't be a sleeper cell because sleeper cells are cells of peace.
The CIA set up 12 bases in Ukraine, right after the coup in 2014, to train assassination teams and saboteurs to infiltrate into Russia. This is not me saying it, it's the New York Times. In any event, you can bet that the Russian's read it.
https://news.yahoo.com/cia-maintains-12-secret-bases-212250351.html
The Russians also claimed a few weeks ago that there was an attempt on Tucker Carlson through a car bomb, which they also claim involved paying a local scum bucket $10,000 or so in cash to do the actual dirty work, just like this case. We will never know the truth, of course, it's a war, and as Winston Churchill famously said "The truth in wartime is so precious that it must be protected by a bodyguard of lies."
"U.S. security officials" also told us Russia blew up its own Nord Stream pipeline.
What was on the concert program?
I thought at first it might be a Laibach performance.
All dictatorships appear stable until one day they aren't.
There is no evidence.
How often has the NYT's used that propaganda phrase? Yeah, "No evidence" just means no one has LOOKED for the evidence. The fact is that we have zero idea whether ISIS REALLY did the attack. Or whether they did the attack with the help of Ukraine.
What after all is ISIS trying to accomplish by attacking Russia? Are they trying to help Israel? LOL.
I dont believe anything the NYT's says without a "factcheck" by another source.
I like how with absolutely no evidence people feel like they know exactly what went on here. It's nice to see The usual suspects staying loyal to their particular algorithm influencer.
I'm surprised this post has been up 3 hours and nobody has used the words, "Putin's playbook" yet.
And the C.I.A. also helped train a new generation of Ukrainian spies who operated inside Russia, across Europe, and in Cuba and other places where the Russians have a large presence.
There is a lot in this article, and If the Russians connect the dots on this...
The New York Times original has a lot more info.
The US security state, we know from a leak, intimidated scientists to push the claim that that COVID did not come from a lab leak, when the evidence that it did at the time was plain for all to see, and the evidence coming since then has just been coal to Newcastle.
It also told us that Hunter's laptop was "Russian disinformation."
"I'm surprised this post has been up 3 hours and nobody has used the words, "Putin's playbook" yet."
Howard was just about to get to that but he needed to get an update from his "algorithm influencer" first.
Well, I would never trust Russia to be honest about anything.
On the other hand, our govt officials would never lie about anything.
This does have the earmarks of an Islamic attack. It duplicates the 2015 Paris concert attack with the Eagles of Death Metal performing (there'd likely were no Muslims at that concert...).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagles_of_Death_Metal
I see this as the third phase of the Gaza October 7 assault. The second phase was when the Houthis attacked shipping -- note that Russia and China reached an agreement for safe passage on March 21.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesfarrell/2024/03/21/houthis-reportedly-strike-deal-with-russia-china-for-safe-passage/?sh=a77bdaa4a6b6
Some Islamic militants want war and are doing everything they can to spark war or maintain a state of war. Zealots will kill or be killed.
In 2004, I got upgraded from economy to First Class on an Air Kenya flight from Amsterdam to Narobi. Seated next to me was the newly appointed Russian Ambassador to Rawanda. He was amiable guy and we had a long, pleasant conversation while drinking some fine wine. He had been involved in the SALT talks and he was now on his way to his first post as Ambassador. His English was excellent and all his comments seemed well thought out and rational to me. Except for one thing. He claimed, with certainty, that the US forces had Bin Laden cornered in Afganistan but let him get away because the US wanted to invade Iraq and they needed Bin Laden not captured to do that. My sense was that was information he got from the Russian Foreign Ministry and he had no reason to doubt it.
I bring this up because it looks like Putin will no doubt use this terrorist attact to get support for a large mobilization for the war against Ukraine by claiming there's a nexus between Ukraine and ISIS. Even though it's ridiculous, it could work. Putin could follow some of the same playbook that Bush used when he connected Saddam's supposed WMD with 9/11 as rallying point to support the invasion of Iraq.
Back to my meeting with Russian Ambassador. We both had layovers at the Narobi airport for different connecting flights. I was hoping to try talk him there and try to wrangle an inviation to the Russian emabassy in Kigali, but in the lounge area he was met by some serious looking Russian staff and was oblivious to my presense. At the time I thought that a bit rude after the time we spent talking, but I found out later that day the Beslan school siege had occured while we were on the plane and the Russians that met him most likely were security staff.
Over-compensating Non-combat "vet" Howitzer Howard: "I like how with absolutely no evidence people feel like they know exactly what went on here."
Russia collusion truther, Hoax Steele dossier fanboy, Explainer of The Amazing Afghanistan Withdrawal and BLM advocate checks in!
Be sure to afford him the utmost "respect" his blog "contributions" deserve.
I take a great deal of exception to those suggesting Ukraine would ever resort to terrorism because they'relosing the war. Ukraine would never resort to terrorism because...becau...IT JUST WOULDN'T RESORT TO TERRORISM OKAY!?!?
" by claiming there's a nexus between Ukraine and ISIS. Even though it's ridiculous"
LOL.
He claimed, with certainty, that the US forces had Bin Laden cornered in Afganistan but let him get away
It never bothered you why we agreed to a pause in the bombing at Tora Bora when we had bin Laden dead to rights and all we had to do was keep pouring on the ordnance when the had plenty to spare, and we had complete air superiority?
Rich said...This was so predictable—when in doubt, always blame the country you invaded that refuses to be assimilated.
Well...yeah.
"American officials have said there is no evidence that Ukraine played a role."
So it's settled, then. It was the Ukrainians.
"Some Islamic militants want war and are doing everything they can to spark war or maintain a state of war. Zealots will kill or be killed."
A better theory might be that Russia is currently fighting ISIS, which is based in American occupied areas of Syria. We are supposed to be there to fight ISIS, and yet it is Russia that is actually doing the fighting and killing of those guys. But that is a little problematic for the US to admit. But the problem won't be convincing Americans, will it, it will be convincing Russians that Ukraine, and by extension, the US was not behind it.
President Obama says Assad must leave office in order for ISIS to be defeated. Putin argues that Assad must stay in power, at least for now.
LOL. https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/putin-claims-russia-just-fighting-isis-syria-u-s-not-n443881
So Obama said that if we don't get the regime change the neocons want in Syria, the terrorists will have won.
"I take a great deal of exception to those suggesting Ukraine would ever resort to terrorism because they're losing the war."
Well. One does have to wonder, how exactly killing 100 civilians in Russia furthers any comprehensible Ukrainian strategy. Churchill had the RAF bomb Berlin to provoke Hitler into bombing London, hoping it would enrage the British public. And it worked, on Hitler, and on the British public. But that was in the early days, when the British were not particularly enthusiastic about going to war over Poland, and Churchill's paymasters were worried that WWII might end before it had really gotten started. It's a little late for Ukraine to be trying to piss people off. Everybody is good and pissed off already.
Hate is the motive. Muslims hate Christians.
Doesn't require some big govt operation, could be a few Muslims looking for bragging rights.
Slaughter like this pretty simple, murder a bunch of people, drop your rifle, run out with the rest of the screaming survivors.
"American officials have said there is no evidence that Ukraine played a role...."
General Kondratiuk canceled the mission, but he also took a different lesson. “Going forward, we worked to not have discussions about these things with your guys,” he said.. - New York Times
LLR -democratical Althouse Blog Troll Rich: "All dictatorships appear stable until one day they aren't."
All Republics appear stable until one day they aren't.
If we ask "cui bono" from this operation, what answers seem most reasonable?
Who stands to gain the most from an "ISIS" attack on a Moscow theater and what a russki response to that action should be assuming its a redirection of at least some russki attention to ISIS and off Ukraine?
This is the only question we can ask ourselves since we will never know or have access to any real information.
blamed Putin’s Special Forces
I don't think Kyiv or the CIA had a direct hand in this because it would be too stupid even for them.
The Islamists in the Caucuses haven't really done this for a while because Russia doesn't play around. The families of the men caught are going to be fed to a blender +/- a generation. People in power are going to die wherever these people are found to be from.
I bet the CIA trained the people that did it some time in the past though. The CIA seems to have trained every terrorist we find for some proxy war or another at this point. The fact they were fleeing to Ukraine is suggestive that is where they are based or had resources. Probably just another random group that was funded and trained in the past and released into the world to provide excuses to go to war.
So now we're supposed to believe that Bush could have had the gigantic propaganda victory of capturing bin Laden, but he deliberately gave that up because having him on the loose somehow - in some way that no one can quite define - made it easier to justify the Iraq War. Ridiculous.
Drago said...
If we ask "cui bono" from this operation, what answers seem most reasonable?
It makes Putin look weak and destabilizes Russia politically right after his "election."
It makes the CIA and Kyiv look like villains. They have nothing to gain.
The Islamists are a death cult, but so many families/communities have disappeared in that region because of past incursions they most likely don't have the resources to plan or support this type of thing. People don't understand the wholesale slaughter Russia and the Chechens delivered in the Islamist regions.
China and India are the only regional powers that look at this as a win-win. Seems outside their orbit though.
This situation seems like a total loss for all likely supporters. Probably some random jerkoffs in the area that the CIA/Nuland camp trained in the past much like ISIS/Al Quaeda and then discarded.
Had to be those Nazi Jewkrainians . . . if they could pull off Pearl Harbor, they could do this.
Poor 'tim in vermont' (8:40am) doesn't seem to know that the war in Syria is a three-way war. The fact that we oppose Assad's brutal unelected regime that has (with Putin's help) slaughtered half a million or more of his subjects does not mean that we support ISIS. We support the third faction, the Syrian Democratic Forces and the Kurds, who together oppose both ISIS and Assad. Saying that because we oppose Assad we therefore support ISIS is stupid Russian propaganda. And ISIS is a real threat.
Has everyone forgotten that when Trump was inaugurated ISIS controlled half of Syria and a third of Iraq and had a slave-market in their capital at Raqqa where they openly auctioned off Christian and Yazidi women as sex-slaves, including at least one American? That Trump, with the help of local allies (mostly Kurds and Saudis, I believe), and with zero or near-zero US casualties, crushed them completely, so that the few survivors were hiding in caves along the Turkish border, afraid to stick their heads out for fear of being vaporized by cruise missiles? That Biden immediately took the pressure off and let them regroup, recruit, and expand, so now they're a threat again?
As for Moscow, Gary Kasparov thinks it was Putin (link):
"Along with the obvious similarities to the apartment bombings under Putin's direction and the security service involvement in Beslan and Nord-Ost, the sudden failure of security tech and the police echoes the assassination of Boris Nemtsov.
"Add the irony of demented terrorist cheerleader Medvedev saying, 'Terrorists understand only terror in response'. Russia has been bombing Ukrainian civilians for years. Any attack on civilians is unacceptable, but the Russian government condemning it is risible hypocrisy."
If you don't know about the "apartment bombings", you're too ignorant to participate in this discussion. Putin had the KGB murder 200 Russians in their beds in Moscow so he could blame it on Chechens and win popularity invading Chechnya.
No one has seen Hunter Biden in the past couple weeks. Coincidence?
Narr (10:14am):
"What was the concert program?"
The show hadn't started yet, but it was a group called Picnic (Piknik), "a Russian rock band known for its unique style which is a mixture of art rock, progressive rock and original Russian rock" (Wikipedia, under "Picnic (band)". They were founded in 1976, so I wonder if they were going to play golden oldies for aging baby-boomers. Then again, they've gone through dozens of different members, so maybe the music is new even if the name is old. They're famous enough you can probably find them on YouTube, though I haven't looked: not my genre(s).
Achilles (12:23pm):
"The Islamists in the Caucuses haven't really done this for a while". That's not what the Russians say. They claim to have killed a six-man ISIS team in the north Caucasus (Ingushetia) on March 3rd: Times of Israel link.
"The F.S.B., Russia’s domestic intelligence agency"
The same failed intelligence agency that ignored the warnings about threats to concert venues from US intel?
I wonder how many here have read Kurt Schlicter's new book, "The Attack?" How many see how close were are to seeing one happen ? Here.
Islamic State – Khorasan Province, aka ISIS-K.
You could go with the most obvious - another bloody, barbaric attack by an Islamist group that has done the same things in the recent past. Note the connection with the bombing that killed 13 marines at the airport in Kabul.
Or you could concoct a strained conspiracy theory involving your favorite scapegoats - the evil, all-powerful CIA and the evil Ukrainians acting stupidly against their own interests.
They've captured the killers and the Jihadis have claimed responsibility and published photos of the murderers from immediately before the attack.
"So now we're supposed to believe..."
I just don't know what the pause at Tora Bora, which we initiated, and which allowed bin Laden to escape, was about. Why did we stop bombing long enough for him to leave? It infuriated me when it happened, and still makes me wonder.
But maybe you should read Bryzinski's book "The Grand Chessboard."
But to answer your question, no. You are supposed to not believe it.
There's an obvious pattern: 22 March 2016 Brussels bombing (32 victims killed), 22 March 2017 Westminster Attack (5 victims killed), 22 March 2021 Boulder attack (10 victims killed), 22 March 2024 Krasnogorsk Concert Hall attack (at last count 133 victims killed). I told law enforcement back in 2018 that an obsession with 22 March if it exists probably has to do with the 2014 Oso, Washington, mudslide (43 dead) and the 1915 Britannia Beach, British Columbia, avalanche (64 dead) both having occurred on 22 March. I suppose Islamist terrorists may have considered the alignment a miraculous sign of some sort. After the Boulder attack, I noticed that apparently (according to various Islamic websites) there is a haddith about how three landslides will signal the Last Judgement. And of course, a "Boulder" is what might end up killing someone in a landslide such as the 1915 one in Brittania Beach. But the biggest North American landslide wasn't one of those slides, nor even the Frank, Alberta, slide that happened on the fourth anniversary of the Dynamite Express being driven to Kellogg where the quadruple murder happened on the day the Titan submersible imploded next to the remains of Titanic (the sentencing will be Monday in Wallace). No, careful attention to definition apparently shows that the deadliest North American landslide occurred in Puerto Rico, on October 7, 1985, the same day the Achille Lauro was hijacked!
Also, on March 18, 1915, you've got the Dardanelles naval disaster for France and Britain, and on March 19, 1915, you've got the Defense of India Act (an understandable attempt to stop the machinations of, for instance, the highly dangerous pro-German weirdos who instigated the Annie Larsen affair) which led to the similar less justifiable Rowlatt Act and thence to the Gandhi movement and the deadly and revolting 1919 massacre in Amritsar, which both tended to lead to the eventual independence of India from Britain. Disaster followed the next day by another disaster, followed three days later by yet another disaster--it's pretty obvious to patient long inquiring pattern observers of the crimes of the Aligner Weirdos that them's triples of great significance to 'em. Kinda seems like they sort of figure they've mostly sort of got that going on in this here triple, especially if you've considered the local geography of the assassination that happened on the 75th anniversary of the St. Francis dam disaster. And the same day as the Britannia Beach landslide, you know what else you've got? The surrender of about 117,000 Austro-Hungarian soldiers to the Russians at the end of the Second Siege of Przemyśl is what you've got, yep.
Don’t worry, ISIS! Putin has allied himself with Hamas so surely that should make him feel more friendly to you!
Oh wait, ISIS and Hamas don’t like each other either. Keeping track of these infra-Islamic jihadi feuds is more complicated than a high school crush teen drama show.
BTW, can I just say how grateful I am to be able to say “ISIS,” “Hamas,” “Islamic” and “jihadi?” I’m pretty sure now that other Google properties like YouTube are trying to censor even those words. The algorithm has definitely shifted to favor the sneaky “anti-zionist” code speak for hating Jews and Israel without really saying anything specific. Either that or these woke GenZ children really do take for granted their ability en masse to call everything they don’t like “lies!” or other vague accusations. It’s impossible to engage any actual evidence or facts on these platforms except if it comes from the creators, and the good ones are usually demonetized before they can get even a minute into a livestream.
This is the world we now live in. Instead you have to use even vaguer rebuttals like “628” in response to “1948.” Islamic anti-semitism and just general all-around jihadi/dawa sentiment has been essentially mainstreamed by the media, no matter how pathetically European nationalist politicians try to resist. Woke is essentially crypto-jihadism. The right-wing Americans who complained about sharia for the last ten years were right. Hopefully they’re able to keep us from becoming as bad as Europe but the outlook is bleak.
I can't think of *anyone* who would want to provoke the Russians into open war with the US. Not a single country, oh no. Not one. It would be crazy. It certainly wouldn't be a country that is getting soundly whooped on the battlefield and feels like it is being left hanging out to dry.
Like the Palestinans, they should be rewarded with a state.
Yancey Ward said...
Occam's Razor suggests this was the Ukrainians, not ISIS, but we can wait for more details
*******************
WTF? How many times have Chechens and other Muslims attacked civilian venues , killing hundreds? Have you forgotten Beslan School? The 2002 Moscow Theatre attack? Or the 2015 Bataclan atrocity in Paris?
Now tell us the last time Ukrainians did anything equivalent.
Occam's Razor, my ass!!!!!
For once I am agreeing with rhhardin. The Ukrainians have been targetting oil refineries and terminals and the Black Sea fleet. Shooting up a theater is very different from that.
It's like watching a twisted tale unfold in slow motion. Russia dismisses warnings as propaganda, blames Ukraine, then ISIS swoops in with a "Surprise, it was us all along!” Talk about a plot twist straight out of a spy novel.
By linking Ukraine to the attack, Russia can stoke domestic anger against Ukraine and deflect attention from the gaps in its security system that have widened since the war. But this implies significant near term escalation from Moscow.
Michael K said...
I wonder how many here have read Kurt Schlicter's new book, "The Attack?" How many see how close were are to seeing one happen ? Here.
3/23/24, 1:19 PM
I read it. Agree there is a very real possibility the type of attack Schlicter describes could happen here. There is no way law enforcement can keep track of every illegal coming into the country.
Dangerous times.
hpudding at 2:20pm is basically spot on.
@Rabel
"Or you could concoct a strained conspiracy theory involving your favorite scapegoats - the evil, all-powerful CIA and the evil Ukrainians acting stupidly against their own interests."
The evil, all-powerful CIA has had no fewer than 17 heads-of-state either rescued (like the Dalai Lama or the Shah), or in fewer cases killed (like Diem in S. Vietnam), since it stopped being the OSS. Are you right? Very possibly. There are things that happen for a reason and other things that make sense only to madmen, but there should be absolutely no doubt in any of your minds that that the CIA has had a large presence in Ukraine since before Euro-maidan and in the caucuses at large since Russia's conflict with Georgia, a conflict George Bush said Russia would pay for.
These things work themselves out over decades, not years...and we're do for a dustup.
effinayright: "WTF? How many times have Chechens and other Muslims attacked civilian venues , killing hundreds? Have you forgotten Beslan School? The 2002 Moscow Theatre attack? Or the 2015 Bataclan atrocity in Paris?
Now tell us the last time Ukrainians did anything equivalent.
Occam's Razor, my ass!!!!!"
All true of course. But other things are also true, as pointed out by others.
As David Sacks points out:
"Pro-Ukraine accounts are becoming hysterical over this post [suggesting the possibility of Ukrainian/CIA/DIA involvement] They also became hysterical when I wrote that:
— it didn’t make sense for Russia to blow up Nord stream.
— a peace deal was available in Istanbul.
— the U.S. was running out of ammunition.
— the Counteroffensive was failing.
— the West had boots on the ground in Ukraine.
— Navalny could have died of natural causes.
All now confirmed by MSM.
This one is easy."
Lots of things are true, all at once, including Zelensky's nuke threats and desperation, along with our own MIC+diden/obama crew, to drag all of NATO into a direct confrontation with the russkis.
I think this dialogue from "So I Married An Axe Murderer" best encapsulates this scenario:
Mike Meyers as Charlie MacKensie, the guy that can't sustain a relationship: "That's not true. I broke up with those girls for very good reasons"
Anthony LaPaglia as his friend, Detective Tony Giardino: "Really?"
Charlie: "Yes"
Tony: "Really? What about Jill?"
Charlie: "She was in the mafia"
Tony (sarcastically): "She was in the mafia?"
Charlie: "Yes. The Cosa Nostra. The whole time we went out she didn't tell me what she did for a living."
Tony: "Charlie, she was unemployed! She didn't have a job!"
Charlie: "Well, that's just the perfect cover now, isn't it?"
LOL
Geo-political and military affairs ignoramus Lead LLR-democratical Brigade Troll Rich comes stumbling in and muttering cocksure pronouncements as if he has any clue whatsoever!
Almost as laughable as LLR-democratical Brigade Buffoons Chuck and lonejustice!
The only thing missing is Rich's usual tie in to the attempted resurrection of the New Soviet Democratical Russia Russia Russia Collusion Hoax!
Well, can't expect him to hit every democratical talking point checkbox on the Hoax sheet every time, one supposes....
RideSpaceMountain (4:01pm):
"The evil, all-powerful CIA has had no fewer than 17 heads-of-state either rescued (like the Dalai Lama or the Shah), or in fewer cases killed (like Diem in S. Vietnam), since it stopped being the OSS."
Since when is 'rescuing' a foreign head of state just as wicked as killing one? In any case, the CIA didn't "rescue" the Shah: he flew out of Iran on his own aircraft when he could no longer hold on to power. If, as generally believed, the CIA helped the Dalai Lama escape from Tibet, that was in every way a good thing: there is nothing the least bit evil about rescuing a religious leader from a murderous totalitarian regime. I don't believe they killed Diem, either: they encouraged the Vietnamese to overthrew him, but they and JFK were unpleasantly surprised that they killed him, too.
By the way, would commentators please learn the difference between 'caucuses', used by some states to choose candidates, and 'Caucasus', a mountain range that divides Europe from Asia.
I don't think someone who quotes David Sacks as an authority is in a position to call anyone else an 'ignoramus'.
Weevil; "I don't think someone who quotes David Sacks as an authority..."
Well, its a good thing I didnt do that then, isn't it?
I simply utilized his list of particulars which lists events that were portrayed one way immediately after happening and then, over time, those portrayals were called into question and/or refuted.
Thanks for playing though.
I do find it stranflge that supposed ISIS fighters, religious fighters, usually fighters to the death, often suicide killers, were offered cash and had running away as part of the plan.
Simply noticing that probably makes me a Putin Adjutant or something...and I never even received a shoulder braid!
What a gip.
Weevil: "I don't believe they killed Diem, either: they encouraged the Vietnamese to overthrew him, but they and JFK were unpleasantly surprised that they killed him, too."
LOL
I have no doubt JFK was surprised just as I have no doubt the CIA wasn't surprised...in the least.
One more reason the US should not get involved in foreign entanglements. Some fourth party can perpetrate an atrocity in Russia, make it appear Ukraine is involved, and suddenly it's WWIII.
Yeah, Drago,....
Nothing like mass terrorism against Russian civilians to create a "preference cascade" among Americans, even MAGA people, to force our governnment to give Ukraine all the money, munitions and materiel it wants to fight the Russian military.
It's a no-brainer.
Dr Weevil said:
By the way, would commentators please learn the difference between 'caucuses', used by some states to choose candidates, and 'Caucasus', a mountain range that divides Europe from Asia.
************
Funny, I didn't realize the reason Istanbul is considered to be in Europe on the west side, and Asia on the east, is because the Caucasus mountain range runs through the Bosphorus.
To back up my previous comment, here's a foreign policy guy named Oliver Alexander on Twitter (link):
"There is something cosmically funny about @DavidSacks quadrupling down on ISIS not being behind the terrorist attack in Moscow only for ISIS to release bodycam footage from the attack an hour later."
I do find it stranflge that supposed ISIS fighters, religious fighters, usually fighters to the death, often suicide killers, were offered cash and had running away as part of the plan.
Simply noticing that probably makes me a Putin Adjutant or something...
That points more to Putin's involvement in a false flag operation than Ukraine's involvement, perhaps along the lines of what Hitler may have done with the Richstag fire.
None of will ever know exactly what happened, but we can look to who benefits and past behaviour as a clue. Putin has engaged in false flag operations before and has no regard for the lives of Russian, as evidence by the way he is fighting the war with Ukraine. The terrorists attack will help Putin in rallying the country behind him for increased efforts in the Ukraine war.
Ukraine has assets in Russia and has carried out numerous acts of sabotage against military and infrastructure assets in Russia. If they wanted to they could incur huge civilian losses in Russia by hitting soft targets. Aside from any ethical qualms, they haven't done so because it would hurt rather than benefit their cause.
effinayright: "Yeah, Drago,....
Nothing like mass terrorism against Russian civilians to create a "preference cascade" among Americans, even MAGA people, to force our governnment to give Ukraine all the money, munitions and materiel it wants to fight the Russian military.
It's a no-brainer."
????
I must have missed something here.
effinayright (10:05pm):
You could have just written "Sorry, of course: 'Caucasus', not 'caucuses' - damned Autocorrect!" and kept your self-respect.
Instead you chose to insult me stupidly. I specifically didn't write that the Caucasus is "THE mountain range that divides Europe from Asia" because that is false: besides the Turkish straits, there's a longer but lower mountain range that does the same, the Urals. Instead I wrote that it is "a mountain range", which is absolutely true. I thought of writing "a mountain range that is part of the boundary between Europe and Asia" to spell it out for the slow learners, but decided that Althouse readers were surely smart enough to figure out that's what "a boundary" clearly implies. Guess I was wrong.
Dr Weevil said...
effinayright (10:05pm):
You could have just written "Sorry, of course: 'Caucasus', not 'caucuses' - damned Autocorrect!" and kept your self-respect.
************
I didn't write "caucuses". A couple of other commenters did.
I was simply mocking your "spell flame" and snotty geography lesson.
You must see yourself as a really important dude to expect people to apologize to you for mis-spellings.
I bet Narr trembles with fear every time comments here, fearing the sting of your lash.
Blogger Michael K said...
I wonder how many here have read Kurt Schlicter's new book, "The Attack?" How many see how close were are to seeing one happen ? Here.
3/23/24, 1:19 PM
I also read it. Kind of prophetic, and frightening. It's a free book, if you have Amazon Prime.
effinYright (to Weevil): "You must see yourself as a really important dude to expect people to apologize to you for mis-spellings.
I bet Narr trembles with fear every time comments here, fearing the sting of your lash."
Think of Weevil as the Bligh to your Mr Christian.
Drago:
Quoting David Sacks in any context shows you're a fool. He's notorious for repeating any lie that makes Ukraine look bad without checking it. He just had to delete a Tweet in which he claimed that one of the captured alleged terrorists was a named veteran of the Ukrainian army when people pointed out that just looking at the ears of the two guys pictured side by side made it obvious they were not the same person.
Far better to read Garry Kasparov (link):
"A new loyalty test has arrived from the Kremlin: blaming Ukraine for the Crocus terror attack despite no credible evidence or time yet to make up the usual fakes. Let's see who parrots this homicidal garbage for no reason other than that their master in Moscow says it.
"The deep historical connections between Russian intelligence and Islamic terror groups are well documented. There are also many shades of complicity, from collaboration and cover-up to ignoring warnings and delaying response.
"Going forward, what matters is that Putin will exploit the attack to further radicalize Russian society to embrace his perpetual war against Ukraine and against the free world. That is the only algorithm now, and it will continue until he is defeated and gone.
"Putin's forever war is already far beyond Ukrainian borders. Election interference, assassinations, energy blackmail, propaganda and agitator groups. The military war will also spread if Ukraine is allowed to fall. The price keeps going up.
"Russians & the West allowed Putin to become a dictator. Now they are on the cusp of allowing him to enter the final phase, a mass-murdering fascist. Stop him now. Do not allow mourning the loss of innocent life in Moscow distract from saving the next innocent life in Ukraine."
The third comment after this reads "Hey @DavidSacks he's describing you" - indeed he is.
The fact is that we know ISIS did it, and we can suspect that at least some Russians LIHOP ("let it happen on purpose"), as silly people used to say about Bush and 9/11. Ukraine, the CIA, Armenia, and everyone else are in fact innocent. Armenia, you ask? The mall is owned by an Azerbaijani billionaire, and the concert hall named after an Azerbaijani opera singer, so some Azerbaijanis are naturally blaming Armenia. They're wrong: it was their fellow Muslims in ISIS.
effinayright:
Apologies for assuming that you objected to my suggestion that people check their spelling because you had made the mistake yourself. I should have checked. And you should have kept your own 'correction' of my supposed geographical ignorance to yourself.
Now, can we get back to showing Drago what a fool he is to think Ukraine had anything to do with the massacre, or to quote David Sacks in any context?
Tajiks hired by agents in Turkey and told to use resources in Ukraine.
Whoever set this up wanted the Russians to widen the conflict and attack more countries which looks likely at this point. Putin has to or he looks weak.
The people behind this want WW3. That should narrow the list.
There are plenty of groups in the Middle East with grudges against Russia to do this attack, and if Russia is recruiting foreign workers and fighters then there is an opportunity to get into Russia and do a typical "allahu ackbar" attack on civilians.
You rang?
I choose to take any invocation of my name that is not obviously negative as a positive, so thanks.
Just trying not to be a detriment.
Achilles (1:23pm):
What is the evidence that the terrorists were "told to use resources in Ukraine", much less actually did so? The Russians say so? Hahahaha! Putin is trying to win popular support for a massive callup of troops to replace the 400,000+ he's already gotten killed in Ukraine, and he's also trying to divert attention from his own gross incompetence in allowing this attack to take place after the US publicly warned him. Of course he's blaming Ukraine.
Even if some of the suspects blame Ukraine, that means nothing: they're being tortured and will say whatever they're told to say. You can see one of them on Twitter having his ear cut off, and then being forced to eat it, by a Russian wearing a Black Sun neo-Nazi symbol on his shirt. He says he going to auction the knife off on whatever the Russian equivalent of eBay is. You can see another with electric cables attached to his genitals. (No, I haven't watched the films, and won't, but I have seen the stills, which are bad enough, and believe the offered links are genuine.) I suspect that most of the guys being tortured - maybe even all of them - aren't the actual terrorists, just the first Tajiks the police or military managed to grab off the street.
Weevil: "Drago:
Quoting David Sacks in any context shows you're a fool. He's notorious for repeating any lie that makes Ukraine look bad without checking it."
LOL
I merely reposted a list of events where initial reactions to those events have come under question and was not a "lie" that "makes Ukraine look bad".
You seem quite intent to make much more of it than it was so I am guessing you were looking for a fight but didnt have enough to work with so you conjured up something more.
But there's more, isn't there? Anf along the very same lines:
Weevil: "Now, can we get back to showing Drago what a fool he is to think Ukraine had anything to do with the massacre, or to quote David Sacks in any context?"
I have taken precisely no position on which party or parties is responsible for this action.
But for some reason, you seem to need another little strawman. Why that is only you can say.
I have made clear that we will never know precisely who pulled this off and for what short term/long term purpose(s). I could argue this 10 different ways with what little we know.
But if it helps you to "win" "teh interwebs" for a day to simply assign others their views, continue to have at it. You wouldn't do it if you didn't need it I guess.
Drago strongly implied that Ukraine did it with his "cui bono" comment (12:10pm). Now that ISIS has released bodycam footage from the attack, he pretends that he has no idea who did it. An honest man would admit that that pretty well proves that Ukraine and the CIA (and Armenia) had nothing to do with it. Too bad Drago is nothing of the sort.
Weevil: "Drago strongly implied that Ukraine did it with his "cui bono" comment (12:10pm)."
LOL
"strongly implied" per Weevil vs my explicitly stated "I could argue this 10 different ways with what little we know."
An honest man would accurately characterize what was stated...or better yet just go with the precise quotes.
But, as mentioned above, Weevil apparently needs to win "teh interwebs" each and every time so all characterizations must clearly be in service to that goal...even if its ridiculous.
Narr said...
"You rang?
I choose to take any invocation of my name that is not obviously negative as a positive, so thanks.
Just trying not to be a detriment."
And doing an outstanding job too! Kudos.
Drago just can't stop lying, but expects me to stop calling him on his damnable lies. The fact is that he tried to blame Ukraine in his 12:10pm, doing it in a passive-aggressive 'I'm just asking questions' way, when anyone could see that terror attacks are not Ukraine's modus operandi.
(How do I know that? Russia has been terror-bombing Ukrainian civilians just about every night for over two years and Ukraine has yet to reply in kind. Over the weekend, Russia destroyed an art school in Kyiv named after an artist murdered by the NKVD in the '30s - they also destroyed almost all his artworks. Also over the weekend, Ukraine destroyed Black Sea Fleet headquarters in Sevastapol and damaged 2-3 ships in the harbor: Russia hasn't even accused them of harming any civilians in those strikes. The idea that Ukraine would send terrorists to Moscow is simply incredible.)
Now that we know ISIS did it - not so much because they say so, or because the tortured suspects are all confessing, but because they have bodycam footage from the attack - Drago pretends (4:39pm) that he has no idea who did it, that there are ten different possibilities. Again, this is a lie. We know Ukraine didn't do it. We know Armenia didn't do it, much as the Azerbaijanis would like to blame it on them. There are only two real possibilities left, not ten:
1. ISIS did it, and all the Russians who should have stopped them are spectacularly incompetent. Is the FSB, feared successor to the KGB, as incompetent and cowardly as the Uvalde police department? Maybe, but it seems very unlikely.
2. More likely, ISIS did it, but Putin's men intentionally "let it happen on purpose" (LIHOP), or even helped them do it, to whip up support for the war in Ukraine. Putin has murdered Russians in even larger numbers before.
Now let's see if Drago can resist replying to this with more lies: his remark about needing to win the interwebs looks like pure projection.
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