२५ फेब्रुवारी, २०२४
"The habitat was constructed as future Mars dwellings will be constructed: by 3-D printer."
"For 'ink,' Martian colonies will use Martian regolith. Because NASA does not possess sufficient quantities of Martian rock, CHAPEA used a proprietary, airtight cement-based material called Lavacrete.... At one end of the rectangular habitat, four identical 6-by-11-foot cells serve as bedrooms. In the middle lies the 'lounge,' a small room with a television and four reclining chairs. The other end is occupied by several desks with computer monitors, a medical station and a crop garden. The vegetables are not intended for subsistence but for mental health: Growing plants... may 'provide psychological benefits for astronauts living in isolated, confined environments away from Earth.' Rooms have different ceiling heights, in order, according to its builder, to 'avoid spatial monotony and crew member fatigue.' A hatch opens to a Martian backyard: a tented sandbox of reddish sand and two treadmills, to be used for 'spacewalks' by virtual-reality-goggled crew members. The walls of the backyard are painted with a mural of Martian cliffs. There are no windows...."
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Isolation or oxygen, lack of. Take your pick.
Those dooshs in the onesies did this in the desert already. Answer: Yes they can IF you get to sneak in some stuff, like…food and…fresh air.
The "Away" and "Expanse" series have interesting takes on travel to and living on Mars.
Cool.
"Because NASA does not possess sufficient quantities of Martian rock,"
What a strange statement. NASA possesses virtually no Martian rock. A couple of meteorites found on Earth and that's it, as far as I know.
They could ask Matt Damon how to grow potatoes.
Aromantics Welcome.
Hamster wheel.
Did I miss the description of the bath and toilet facilities?
I think humans will certainly visit Mars eventually, but a permanent residence will never happen- the need to rely on Earth based imputs to survive will just be too expensive.
Gimme a break! For all fantasy SciFi regarding Lunar and/or Mars colonies, they ain't gonna be on the surface. Wannna colonize, become a mole
For a country with our debt, this is a real waste of money.
"At one end of the rectangular habitat, four identical 6-by-11-foot cells serve as bedrooms...."
Here's a little hint: If you want your future intra-galactic travelers to keep their mental health and not suffer from the fatigue of isolation, you might consider refraining from referring to their quarters as 'cells'. You might even consider using language that is designed to inculcate excitement, a sense of adventure, maybe even aspiration. I dunno - at least on Mars, they won't have to worry about anything concerned with the NYT.
I thought Matt Damon had all this figured out: "Science the s**t out of it," or something to that effect.
I may be naive, but I think this whole "Oooh, can they survive psychologically?" thing is overblown. People survive prison. They survive Shackleton expeditions. They survive some pretty awful stuff. "Yeah, but Beaneater, at least those people can breathe!" True. But if you were focused for years on getting to Mars, the psychological payoff of actually being there would be huge.
It's not Mars, but I have done some pretty odd and uncomfortable stuff over 20+ years in Africa. I look back on all of it with joy, even the things that were serious hardships at the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6jzazs3l9c
NASA used to be welfare for engineers. Apparently the psychologists are getting in in the grift.
Blogger MikeD said...For all fantasy SciFi regarding Lunar and/or Mars colonies, they ain't gonna be on the surface. Wannna colonize, become a mole
Given the temperature extremes and lack of a magnetic field to protect from solar radiation, this seems obvious. It’s always been my impression that the real purpose of Musk’s Boring company is to perfect the digging techniques for building colonies elsewhere.
"For a country with our debt, this is a real waste of money."
I'm okay with this kind of stuff. It's the welfare that's the real killer but it kills the human spirit "to get out there and try."
Elon's vision is to send dozens of Starships at the same time, eventually, so there's no isolation to worry about. Food and air supply, maybe, but no shortage of folks to get in your way.
Since it's going to be 3D printed and there is no lack of building material on Mars they can build whatever they want. Limited only by the strength of the materials.
When you live in Mars. the first rule is that dumshits die. If you are careless you die. If you are stupid, we will kill you. We won't let you kill anyone.
Aggie said...
"At one end of the rectangular habitat, four identical 6-by-11-foot cells serve as bedrooms...."
Here's a little hint: If you want your future intra-galactic travelers to keep their mental health and not suffer from the fatigue of isolation, you might consider refraining from referring to their quarters as 'cells'. You might even consider using language that is designed to inculcate excitement, a sense of adventure, maybe even aspiration. I dunno - at least on Mars, they won't have to worry about anything concerned with the NYT.
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Unless they call them Master Suites furnished with heart-shaped beds (for "Liebensraum" with other astronauts), I ain't goin'.
Wasn't there a year-long program back in the 90's isolating a bunch of people in a small-but-lush environment to see how they would survive and get along?
And didn't it fail spectactularly?
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/jul/13/spaceship-earth-arizona-biosphere-2-lockdown
(well worth reading, but the number of face palms the story yields might lead to concussion)
And in the "Martian" movie didn't Matt Damon have to be rescued, at a cost of a billion dollars, by that horrible woke harpy Jessica Chastain, nee Rosa Kleb?)
Can any of you imagine Mars astronauts gaping at each other in horror when they realize they will be stuck on that desolate, horrid place until they die, which might not be "soon" given all their "survival" gear?
How many will just rush outside to ingest the CO2 and get it over with?
Dave Begley said...
For a country with our debt, this is a real waste of money.
Dave is correct. We should also quit wasting money and driving up debt beginning with outlawing both real and imagined expenditures of billions
of dollars on political campaigns by supposed 3rd-parties. It is time to reverse Citizens United v FEC.
I think it would be a good idea to make “windows” by linking video feed to inside screens, so people can watch what’s happening outside.
NASA should have been doing the stuff Musk has done. They failed, and became just another bureaucracy.
But, why don’t they send a lander to mars, dig up some soil (sponsored by JCB), bring it back so they can really see what it’s made of? How hard can it be?
lack of a magnetic field to protect from solar radiation
No iron core. No surface dwellings. No colonies. Same on the moon, but the moon offers military advantages.
Reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode “The Lonely” (1959).
One of the best.
Regarding whether colonists on Mars will be forced to live only in completely underground networks of tunnels, as asserted repeatedly up-thread – as British physicist Peter Hague points out in his intriguing substack Planetocracy – contrary to such expressed popular myth, it won't be necessary for humans on Mars to sequester themselves only underground.
In the first place, though Mars (mostly) lacks a planetary magnetic field, Earth's own magnetic field mainly protects it against solar radiation (solar flares and the like) – in this regard, Mars orbits half again as far from the sun as Earth does – which (given the inverse-square law) provides a considerable amount of solar radiation protection for Mars right there.
Moreover, the principal radiation danger on Mars is not solar radiation but galactic cosmic rays (GCR) – concerning which, as Peter Hague notes, “the surface dose [on Mars] exceeds what is considered safe for adults on Earth at the moment and definitely exceeds what is safe for children.” However, what protects Earth from GCR radiation isn't principally its magnetic field, but its atmosphere – and on Mars the air (though thin – 1% of Earth's) is thick enough to provide a great deal of radiation protection – if one considers GCR passing though the martian atmosphere at a relatively small, acute angle (i.e., GCR approaching from near the horizon, as opposed to near-overhead).
Only GCR radiation passing through the martian atmosphere from close to overhead, and angles not far from it, isn't severely attenuated, which means that, even though yes, houses on Mars must be covered by a radiation defensive barrier – such as a (several foot) thick layer of martian regolith (soil) placed atop the roof – however, such dwellings can be left open at the sides, with windows and patios (with the thick roof extending for several feet beyond, but still with picture window views of martian scenery proceeding into the distance) without any problem.
No iron core. No surface dwellings. No colonies.
Wrong on all counts. Mars does have an iron core; moreover, we've learned that it's still fluid (the liquid iron is just not circulating in the kind of “dynamo” pattern which generates Earth's magnetic field). Beyond that, as noted up-thread, surface dwellings are practical on Mars – and so too, there may well eventually be human colonies there.
What "trauma of isolation?" A mars colony would be made up of many people and they would have regular communications with Earth. (Also, they'd have tons of books and movies.) This isn't a sensory deprivation tank situation, it's more like The Mayflower. (But with email, social media, books and movies.)
This is just another hit piece against Musk and the space program by people who think that mankind shouldn't colonize space and just focus on the Earth. They would much prefer that mankind just focus on earth to be eventually wiped out by an asteroid, a massive solar flare, a 100% fatal virus, ect, ect.
"The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race to keep all its eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
"Get your ass to Mars." - Douglas Quaid
"But, why don’t they send a lander to mars, dig up some soil (sponsored by JCB), bring it back so they can really see what it’s made of? How hard can it be?"
Landing and getting samples has proven to be easy. However to return to earth would require a ship as large and as complicated as the one that brought them. We aren't there yet.
In order to colonize Mars we first have to drop hundreds if not thousand of tons of supplies. Many dozens if not hundreds of robots and robotic machines. These are needed to build infrastructure before the first humans set foot on mars.
The government has been conducting these experiments since Jan.6th,2021. They are ongoing and not voluntary.
Thanks Michael. I was obviously working on outdated and wrong information. After looking things up it still looks like solar radiation is a problem, though not unmanageable.
"They would much prefer that mankind just focus on earth..."
It's hard enough to micromanage everybody on this planet- someone's always doing something they shouldn't or not doing something they should. Dealing with people doing (or not doing) this on another planet? Good luck with that.
" It is time to reverse Citizens United v..." . When people tell you who they are, believe them. Libs are fascist terrorists in word, deed, and belief. Treat them accordingly.
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