Writes Courtenay Hameister, in "Were We the ‘Fat Couple’? If that’s how our friends saw us, I couldn’t bear it" (NYT).
Here's a Fluffy Kitten Party post from 2019: "Fategories – Understanding the Fat Spectrum" (updated in 2021 to "remove[] the 'White Fragility' framework because WOW that did not age well)(original version here).
पोस्ट्स
७३ टिप्पण्या:
So all that evidence showing that fatness increased Covid mortaility risk was just fake disinformation?
But hey, progs, since the BMI is now also "racist," wouldn't it be more efficient if y'all told us what isn't racist these days?
She's actually not all that fat. I get the impression she's like that Dolezal character, trying to horn in on someone else's oppression.
"Racist"
So, not worth reading.
The fat acceptance movement illustrates so perfectly one of the biggest differences between men and women and how both sexes view the world. Men see someone that is physically, emotionally, or intellectually superior to them in every way and try to figure out ways to make themselves that man. Similarly, women see another overall superior and attractive woman and they want that woman hidden, her influence cancelled, and anything superior about her is picked apart until her the inferior woman's inferiority complex is rationalized.
Very few fat men, a statistically insignificant number, would ever look at a super fit dude and think, "I need to figure a way to justify my clear superiority over this Greek god." That comes off as deluded and pathetic. Women? Let their egos be soothed though the heavens fall.
Men see another man at the top of the hill of high sexual market value and want to become that man. Women see another woman above her on the hill of sexual market value and want the hill hit with a napalm strike, leveled by bulldozers, and paved over with an overpass.
"at best, inaccurate, and at worst racist".
Try to think of something to which that description does not apply.
"body mass index — a measure that is at best inaccurate and at worst racist."
Of course it is …
Also, daily recommended values. And don't get me started on imbibing, sleep, exercise, etc. Phobias, really? Masking symptoms, non-sterilizing inoculations, too. Class-disordered ideologies (e.g. racism)... diversity (i.e. color judgments, class bigotry) breeds adversity.
BMI = BS
fyi as of 2 hours ago, i am at 270.0 lbs (wake up weight, in PJs before breakfast and bathroom)
This puts me at ONE HUNDRED POUNDS DOWN, from a year ago last july 2022
(when the doc weighed me at 374.4lbs (after breakfast, with shoes)
270.0 and 5'11" is a BMI of 37.65
BMI charts "say" that i should lose ANOTHER 100 pounds, at which point i'd STILL be "overweight".
Which shows that BMI isn't "racist" or "sexist".. It's JUST STUPID.
That SAID..
There is a word to describe a (nearly) 6 foot tall man that weighs 270 lbs.. that word is Lard Ass
i DO need to lose more weight (to score babes.. Which is The Only Reason for ANYTHING)
However, since i'm old and poor, i'm NEVER going to be able to score choice babes, so i'll be VERY HAPPY if i can lose another 20 lbs by my bDay in June. 249lbs sounds So Much Nicer that 374
"Nearly everyone, except maybe sociopaths and Peloton instructors, goes through this world with some self-loathing...."
Like the claim that everyone is "spiritual," this is total bullshit. The only time I think about my body, or the topic of health, at all, is when I'm at the Doctor's or recoiling from the myriad of NewAge messages society is constantly shouting at me. It's a bother, and an imposition, not a concern I share in the least. And self-loathing? I'd have to care what others think for that to work, because I'm fine. Y'all got the problems.
Now go get on that bike and tell me you like yourself.
I think the word "racist" implies a malicious intent.
I was pretty fat (6'1"/280-ish) for many years. My wife generally considers herself fat as a matter of course (she's big-bottomed but not always fat-fat).
Long ago I worked with a beanpole who married a fat-fat gal. He didn't take it well when a coworker said they looked like a big number 10 walking down the street.
ps. when i last saw my doc 5 months ago, she declared me "no longer morbidly obese"
That pleased me, nearly as much as it did her.
I am looking forward to my next visit next month, so that she can see that i am
A HUNDRED POUNDS DOWN*
I'm pretty confident that she'll be pleased/
pps just took my blood pressure: 117/65
A HUNDRED POUNDS DOWN* you've noticed i KEEP saying that. Am i proud? You bet! Every bit as proud as resident Biden is for lowering inflation and getting THE MOST PEOPLE BACK TO WORK.
What A HUNDRED POUNDS DOWN really means, is: My GOD was i fat!
So, Courtenay, you're gobbling the likes of banana cream pie with a layer of chocolate ganache every day, getting fat (sorry, "mid fat"), and feeling terribly guilty about it even when no one even hints at "guilting" you. Right?
I going to say two words to you right now. You can write them down, though we find most people can remember them...
Re: Jupiter:
She's actually not all that fat. I get the impression she's like that Dolezal character, trying to horn in on someone else's oppression.
True, she's not morbidly obese, but I would guess from googling her name that she is, actually, obese, which is what she says she is in the article. It's just that in the US, most people one sees out in public are either obese or straddle the border between overweight and obese so she looks pretty normal. But her doctor probably does tell her she ought to lose some weight every single time she comes in, which seems to be a major complaint for these fat acceptance groups.
Yeah, that Belgian body mass index guy was surely racist. How else to account for his behavior.
A size 20 is nothing but fat. I'm a size 10 and yes I'm round. Fifteen pounds would do the trick.
BMI = Anti-breast.
Fat shaming produces all type and manner of externalities, except weight loss.
BMI isn't a true index. It's a first cut estimate.
Maybe have some empathy, like Elon Musk recommended yesterday If you bothered to listen to the whole interview.
BMI is a crude index of health. It is not 'racist.' It could be improved by using other factors to adjust the health scale.
Anyone who thinks it's "racist" is racist themselves.
I like to buy warm clothes at Tractor Supply, where they carry the designer brands like Carhartt. They have all the sizes people would want, from L (relaxed fit) which is my size, to 4XL. A lot of fat shaming is about social class.
Do an image search.
Yes, she is fat.
I'm not a doctor, but from the photos I saw I would say she is morbidly obese.
Not sure about the racism angle as she appears very white.
I also read her bio on Amazon and she is a typical, whining, hard-left activist.
So fucking sick of lefties...
Gilbar & Narr:
Congratulations. I had a best friend who must have weighed at least 400-lbs. He was a month older than me (August 1954 vs September 1954). He was the nicest man around, loved telling stories and could talk all day long. He died over a Christmas break of a massive stroke. Instantly fatal. If he'd been 200-lbs, he'd still be alive.
I still miss him.
"I going to say two words to you right now. You can write them down, though we find most people can remember them..."
Made me laugh. Thanks!
Nearly everyone, except maybe sociopaths and Peloton instructors, goes through this world with some self-loathing...."
Another expert or just projecting.
I have never had a sense of self loathing. I have been disappointed in my actions a few times but I have never hated myself. I must be a racist sociopath. I’m 5’9 210, some may think I’m fat, I don’t care. I’m just happy to live in the greatest country in the world.
In case no one else says it @Gilbar - CONGRATULATIONS.
Amazing accomplishment.
BMI does not tell you if you are fat. It simply gives you a MASS ratio. Muscles are denser than fat. At the height of running my stunt show, a company physical returned a BMI that said I was "obese" at 6',215.
A alack-rope walker I knew was 5'6",~150. His BMI said obese. The man was a skeleton covered in steel-corded muscles.
You can't go strictly by weight but it's fairly easy to tell if someone is carrying too much fat around.
Sebastian said...
So all that evidence showing that fatness increased Covid mortaility risk was just fake disinformation?
One of the few true things about the dreaded covid that the medical establishment said was true. Well, actually, they didn't say it- they simply agreed with the observation that others swiftly made.
I think the BMI promotes an ugly stereotyping but I wouldn't call it racist. I suspect most NFL linemen fall under the "morbidly obese" category, and I've seen plenty of recent news of much skinnier athletes dropping dead of sudden cardiac arrest. Truly being overweight is not the best way to go through life and will have negative effects as you get older, but BMI shouldn't be the metric.
Poor victim of White Male Patriarchy. The World is full of them!
What are the 2 words?
Congratulations, gilbar!
It takes a LOT of work and determination. I know. Been there, done that.
Not at your level, however. But I did lose 50 pounds a few years back and feel much better.
I lifted a 50 lb. bag of horse feed and thought, "My gosh, I was carrying this around 24/7!"
Keep it up. It's worth it.
Congrats gilbar!! Good freaking job! I know that took a lot of effort. Stay with it. And enjoy the endorphins.
Happy hunting, Gilbar!
Or, in your case- fishing. Lots of fish out there lol.
This entire BMI issue is just silly. If you're fat, you're fat — and you know you're fat.
If you're fat and you want to say you're not fat and that BMI is meaningless, inaccurate, and racist, go ahead and do so. However, denial doesn't negate the fact that you're still fat.
One can deny things all one wants — I'm ugly; I'm fat; I'm stupid; I'm lazy; I'm unattractive; I'm dull; the list goes on — but that denial is only a contrivance.
Truth is truth. Mentally healthy people accept themselves for who and what they are and either live with it and accept it or change something.
Deniers have psychological problems that ought to be addressed … but rarely are. It's sad.
sh said...
"BMI = Anti-breast."
Well, I do disagree with men having breasts.
Spending a week among the 30 year olds in Budapest really recalibrated my sense of "normal weight". Returning to the U.S. Practically broke my fat-meter.
"Truly being overweight is not the best way to go through life and will have negative effects as you get older, but BMI shouldn't be the metric."
Doctors and patients need something easy. The alternatives (like an immersion tank) are not practical.
Congrats, gilbar, that is a phenominal achievement!
At age 35, I put in some effort and went from 210# to under 175# on my just under 6' frame. I stopped loosing because my 32" waist pants were starting to get baggy and I didn't want to redo half my wardrobe again. My 42" jackets still fit fine, though.
At 56, I am suddenly carrying around 225#; I'd love to drop 20-30, but loosing even a few is damned hard, especially sitting on my butt all day doing office work.
Oh, for fuck's sake- you don't need a BMI measurement to know if you or anyone else is fat. I took a look at a few pictures of the author- she is fat, full stop. She isn't Lizzo fat, whose BMI is 4 digits without a decimal point. Lots of athletes have high BMIs, but nobody looks at them and thinks, "That guy/girl is fat."
I'm overweight. You're obese. They is so fat when they has to haul buns it takes two trips.
“Congratulations. I had a best friend who must have weighed at least 400-lbs. He was a month older than me (August 1954 vs September 1954). He was the nicest man around, loved telling stories and could talk all day long. He died over a Christmas break of a massive stroke. Instantly fatal. If he'd been 200-lbs, he'd still be alive.”
Worked with two brothers when I was selling insurance almost a half century ago. Younger brother, at about 500-550, dropped dead at about 30. Older brother, then at about 350 got the message, got below 200, and lived long enough to retire (where I lost track of him).
Tremendously over weight people are healthy, healthy, healthy. (Oh yeah, and beautiful as well.)
Deny it at your peril, racist.
Another nugget from the "party of science" (POS).
I've recently become interested in Sumo. The YouTube channel is "sumo prime time", showing training and wrestling. It's surprisingly fascinating.
OK, I googled her image.
Yes, dear, your friends refer to you as the fat couple (assuming hubby is - also - chubby).
My wife insists she is fat. By comparison she's a bean pole. Hell, I fight fat too and, again by comparison, I'm trim.
Ain't healthy, ain't attractive.
“I think the BMI promotes an ugly stereotyping but I wouldn't call it racist. I suspect most NFL linemen fall under the "morbidly obese" category, and I've seen plenty of recent news of much skinnier athletes dropping dead of sudden cardiac arrest. Truly being overweight is not the best way to go through life and will have negative effects as you get older, but BMI shouldn't be the metric.”
The skinnier athletes falling over dead of sudden cardiac arrest are almost assuredly a result of COVID-19 vaccine injuries. They are probably vulnerable because they pushed their hearts more, because they could. Very high correlation between vaccines and sudden cardiac events in young, otherwise healthy, athletes.
Just a quick refresher - the vaccines contain ModRNA (modified mRNA) that generates COVID-19 spike proteins. The first jab teaches the immune system that they are antigens. With the 2nd and subsequent jabs, cells displaying those spike proteins are killed by the immune system. One big reason that the mRNA is modified is to evade the immune system, and get it to the lymph system. But there was nothing built in to keep it from migrating from there, and that means that they quickly enter the circulatory system, which in this case, means that the spike generating ModRNA routinely is pumped through the heart. If enough of the ModRNA get into heart cells, the immune system will ultimately kill those cells, and if enough spike protein exhibiting heart muscles are killed, you have myocarditis, etc. And with even more heart muscle cells killed, the heart stops.
>Nancy said...
What are the 2 words?<
from a celebrated Newhart/MadTV bit
Nancy said...
What are the 2 words?
You kind of have to see it to get a good grasp of the significance of the two words
So, what didn't age well? White fragility or ???
I'm not getting it.
“BMI isn't a true index. It's a first cut estimate.”
It is a quick and dirty calculation, that just takes into account weight and height. It’s based on averages. But actual body mass can be more accurately determined. My memory is that you have to submerge in water, measure how much water was displaced, and compare to weight. That’s why a body builder can have a high BMI, with minimal actual body fat. As we age, and lose muscle mass, the two of us are replacing it slowly with fat. But that isn’t showing up in BMI - just the fit of our clothes.
That said, offensive linemen are often not nearly as lean as the other players on the team. SIL played offensive line in college, and topped out over 300 lbs. By graduation, he was down to maybe 270 in lean muscle, and a decade later, a cut 230. Still, at 6’3”, a big boy. His coaches pushed him to bulk up a bit when he was playing. Some fat may be advantageous playing offensive line, since it makes it harder for the defensive players to move them around. Too much, and it reduces mobility.
"Yea! Heavy and a bottle of bread"
Great job Gilbar! How'd you do it?
Medical journal articles consistently state that being a bit overweight is better (in terms of survival after major surgery, trauma, or cancer treatment) than being underweight. Some people foolishly interpret that as a license to pig out, others use it as evidence that fat acceptance is healthy.
What they don't say is that the universe of underweight people (relatively rare in USA) includes the malnourished, whether by psychiatric illness, cancer induced cachexia, or the people who used to be known as "speed freaks" and now are known as amphetamine addicts. Malnourished people are very unhealthy and do not have the nutritional reserves to withstand a significant insult such as major surgery.
I know several people like gilbar who have lost a lot of weight with the method that works every time- less energy intake, more energy consumed. Congrats to gilbar and every other person who has decided that they are in control of what goes in and what they do. People who accept being morbidly obese or uses a crutch to lose weight such as ozempic or bariatric surgery are slaves to Big Food.
"a measure that is at best inaccurate and at worst racist."
Sweet fancy Moses- what an idiot. I don't organize my books the way the library does, that doesn't mean the Dewey Decimal System is racist.
"Fluffy Kitten Party" would be a good title for a lesbian porno movie.
Rocco said...
Well, I do disagree with men having breasts.
Not about men. Otherwise similarly-sized ladies with larger ta-tas have a higher BMI. Which, come to think of it, may be a bonus, depending upon your perspective - some women (me, perhaps) snuck into that first round of COVID vaccinations as "obese" when that's clearly not the case. Just another reason that BMI is a poor indicator of overall health/healthy weight.
I had to look her up since I had no idea who she was. She certainly does not appear to be morbidly obese, or dangerously obese, but she is carrying more weight than is healthy for long term health. I am too. Would like to get rid of some of it, but as I have aged it has become more difficult. Hard on the heart, ankles and knees, and back. If you want to live to a healthy, active old age, then you need to be a little closer to the BMI number. And yes, it is a flawed number, starting with the fact that height is off by an inch from the beginning. And no allowances for bone density or amount of muscle. But in general, use of BMI as a rough guide is better than crying about body shaming.
Stop being fat. It's not difficult. It just requires some self control, but I guess that's too much to ask of the mentally ill that walk among us. Not that long ago, carnival goers would be charged two bits a gander to gawk at these people.
BMI has the utility of being easy to measure, all you need is weight and height. What you really want to know is body fat percentage, but that is a time-consuming experiment to run. What would be handy would be some other test, easy to run and could directly adjust the BMI score to take into account muscle mass. I would suggest a dead-lift power measurement. This one measurement should work well as a correction factor since it would be quick and easy to measure and measures strength, which in turn correlates with muscle mass.
As for fat shaming "not working", I don't really know if that's true. I suspect that more people would be obese if nobody cared what they looked like. The alternative to fat shaming isn't celebration of fatness, which surely will not encourage anyone to stay fit or return to fitness.
Original Mike:
Doctors and patients need something easy. The alternatives (like an immersion tank) are not practical.
If BMI measured fat, it might do. Doctors should consider just who the patient is in their determination but many simply go by the BMI as happened with me.
Arnold Swartzenegger (current picture): age 70, height 6'2", weight 249 - from Celebrity Inside (Swartzenegger has always been obtuse about his weight).
BMI 32 calculated online
Indeed, to join others' accolades, grats gilbar.
Thanx people.. I am pretty glad of it.
Just got back from a 4 mile walk up at Effigy mounds.. very hilly.
Mostly I'm just counting carbs, and taking metformin (a diabetes med).
I'm still losing about a pound a week.
I'm thinking about backpacking next spring, since the backpack would be "free"
Hey great point! - Why don't you run over here and make that point again. Oh, sorry.
gilbar! Drop and give me twenty!
You done good. I was on metformin for a while but read some scary shit about it and stopped.
The above is not medical advice, just an observation about my experience. You are only now getting to the territory I began at, and I only had to drop 50 to feel and look much better. Being wifeless, at least you don't have to hear how unfairly easy it is for men to lose weight . . .
My Dunlap's is coming back though, and it's weeks of temptation before Christmas.
dbp: The alternative to fat shaming isn't celebration of fatness, which surely will not encourage anyone to stay fit or return to fitness.
Exactly. Obesity causes a lizard brain (actually the lamprey brain) chemical imbalance that is very hard to overcome. Willpower and discipline have little to do with it is why shaming doesn't work. Diets like all meat, all fat or all whole food unprocessed veg work because they reset the chemicals and tamp down the cravings.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hungry_Brain
"Stop it". Got it!
My confession: I don't watch any TV ever!
Isn't it interesting that anyone would go online, the only place no one cares, and talk about how fat one is? And categorize other people without being able to see them? And argue about who is fattest and most miserable?
I get the author's point that unless you are really fat it's not going to impact your daily life all that much. If you aren't dating, it's really not a big deal (and even if you are, being overweight isn't a big handicap until a certain point.) I think everyone, absolutely everyone, is tired of listening to people demanding attention for themselves based on extremely minor inconveniences from some minor disability that would not be a problem for anyone with a gram of self-control or determination.
I wish the author would see that the whole idea of promoting marginalized people creates an incentive for people who are not marginalized in any meaningful way to claim that they are excluded in order to benefit from the label. It's a way for people who no one would ever listen to otherwise get an audience for themselves. This is present in any community that uses the stupid (and I mean stupid) intersectional worldview.
The verbal gymnastics isn't worth it.
Just say that most people ain't fat enough to understand the problems of the really big. Easy to say and understand.
@Jupiter
The planet Jupiter commenting on a post about fat made me chuckle.
Years ago, in the Army, we had a number of Gym Rats who hardly had an ounce of fat on them that had to go to the Base Hospital for a pinch test because according to the height/weight charts (BMI) they were overweight. BMI is an almost useless measure. Body fat percentage is a much better measure. But BMI is not racist. After all, when everything is racist, nothing is racist.....
She’s obese.
When I was in the Army, I had to fight a constant battle against the weight tables, all determined by BMI. I consistently passed the various methods used to determine body fat, and passed every time. At on point, I arranged to be weighed underwater, the most accurate method of body fat determination. I was about 8% fat. That was 30+ years ago, and I was always in great shape while in the Army, both active and reserve.
On my annual evaluation reports, there was an entry for height and weight. After mine, there was a statement that I met the body fat standard IAW the regulation. This was not supposed to affect selection for promotion, but it was not hidden from the selection board members. I am convinced that this held my career back from my contemporaries.
So, has BMI been used inappropriately? I don't think that there is any question about that. However, it is a recognized standard, and it is an easy discriminator.
"Fategories"...
"Infinifat"...
People who use cutesy nonce words when discussing a serious topic are not to be taken seriously.
FJB
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