Said Sacha Baron Cohen, quoted in
"Jewish Celebrities and Influencers Confront TikTok Executives in Private Call/TikTok faces escalating accusations that it promotes pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel content. 'Shame on you,' Sacha Baron Cohen said on the call" (NYT).
“If you think back to Oct. 7, the reason why Hamas were able to behead young people and rape women was they were fed images from when they were small kids that led them to hate,” Mr. Cohen said in the meeting. He accused TikTok of feeding similarly incendiary content to young people....
[Debra] Messing... pressed executives on TikTok’s moderation of the pro-Palestinian slogan “from the river to the sea,” which many Americans regard as a call to eradicate Israel....
[TikTok head of user operations Adam] Presser said the phrase was up for interpretation by TikTok’s 40,000 moderators. “Where it is clear exactly what they mean — ‘kill the Jews, eradicate the state of Israel’ — that content is violative and we take it down,” he told the group. “Our approach up until Oct. 7, continuing to today, has been that for instances where people use the phrase where it’s not clear, where someone is just using it casually, then that has been considered acceptable speech.”...
ALSO:
From NBC:TikTok removed the hashtag #lettertoamerica from its search function after videos about Osama bin Laden’s 2002 'Letter to America' went viral on the platform and were re-uploaded to the social media platform X.... In the letter, bin Laden addressed the American people and sought to answer the following questions: “Why are we fighting and opposing you?” and “What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?” The letter includes antisemitic language and homophobic rhetoric. The virality of the letter has reignited criticism of the platform, which is owned by China’s ByteDance.
पोस्ट्स
१५१ टिप्पण्या:
Most or all of the pro-Palestinian/ Pro-Hamasians are leftists and democratixis. yeah - the Xi is on purpose.
Smart white people oppressing dumb brown people, is the template.
Circular reasoning turns into spiral reasoning fast because it’s emotionally impervious to facts. I hope they don’t discover Ted Kaczynski’s manifesto.
I'm sure TikTok will also claim the phrase "Final Solution" is ambiguous and thus acceptable.
Titkok isn't creating anything. People are just noticing the hypocrisy and the inconsistencies in the narrative more and more, a narrative that has been largely 'strangleheld' by an elite set of tastemakers with control over almost all old-cohort media regarding Israel-US relations and policy for almost 70 years.
I'm reminded of the famous 1968 Playboy interview with Truman Capote, who saw it for what it was even as early as the 50s.
"Playboy: For many years, American letters seemed dominated by Southern writers, but, as you have said, “during the last ten years the large percentage of the more talented American writers are urban Jewish intellectuals.” How do you feel about this shift in ethnic, geographic and literary emphasis?
Capote: Well, it has brought about the rise of what I call the Jewish Mafia in American letters. This is a clique of New York-oriented writers and critics who control much of the literary scene through the influence of the quarterlies and intellectual magazines. All these publications are Jewish-dominated and this particular coterie employs them to make or break writers by advancing or withholding attention. I don’t think there’s any conscious, sinister conspiracy on their part—just a determination to see that members of their particular clique rise to the top. Bernard Malamud and Saul Bellow and Philip Roth and Isaac Bashevis Singer and Norman Mailer are all fine writers, but they’re not the only writers in the country, as the Jewish literary Mafia would have us believe. I could give you a list of excellent writers, such as John Knowles and Vance Bourjaily and James Purdy and Donald Windham and Reynolds Price and James Leo Herlihy and Calder Willingham and John Hawkes and William Goyen; the odds are you haven’t heard of most of them, for the simple reason that the Jewish Mafia has systematically frozen them out of the literary scene.
Now, mind you, I’m not against any particular group adhering to its own literary values and advancing its own favored authors; such cliques have always existed in American letters. I only object when one particular group—and it could just as well be Southern, or Roman Catholic, or Marxist, or vegetarian—gets a strangle hold on American criticism and squeezes out anybody who doesn’t conform to its own standards."
Siloed information is over. Narrative-controllers are going to have to actually fight for hearts and minds moving forward. Blocking, cancelling, shaming, brigading and shouting down are going to be less effective with every passing year.
Oh thank GOD Debra Messing is getting involved.
Everything is gonna be ok. I feel much better already.
But it's so cute with all the videos.
What next, Hitler's "Judenfrei" was also ambiguous? Maybe he meant Jews would be free to leave Europe?
To pretend not to understand what "river to the sea, Palestine shall be free" really means is sadly typical of the Left: they never argue in good faith.
Why is it that every Pro-Israel comment or concern about antisemitism is dialed up to 11/11, and hysterically overstates what's going on. Its the Holocaust all over again. Its just like Hitler. Its just like nazi Germany. its just like the inquistion. Jews are fleeing France or moving to New Zealand because OMG...
I find it fucking annoying. Now its Tik-tok (LOL). Here's a clue. take a chill pill, and stop trying to censor and gatekeep everything. Or getting the FBI/DOJ/DHS to monitor and attack everyone you don't like.
We have a 1st Admendment, I hope we can keep it.
Shame on you?
That's the best SBC can come up with?
The Left pushed DEI and identity politics. This anti-Semitism is a direct result of identity politics and DEI. That's what happened.
"For they have sown the wind, they shall reap the whirlwind."
And, of course, TikTok is owned by the Chinese. Can someone here put a number on how much Chinese fentanyl, covid and TikTok has cost Americans?
As much as I hate what the pro-terrorists are selling I love freedom more. Let them say what they want to say. If you find it repugnant answer back with a better arguement.
For once in my life, I find myself agreeing with Sacha Baron Cohen. Strange bedfellows and all that... He was pretty funny as Ali G in the early days on television though.
Wait, I can't keep up. Are we for Free Speech this week, or against it? And when did the change occur, was that on Tuesday? How long before it switches again?
'...the pro-Palestinian slogan “from the river to the sea,” which many Americans regard as a call to eradicate Israel....'
What the hell else could it mean?
eager to hear what rcocean says about this.. i wonder if he'll match my expectations?
This press for censorship needs to stop! Pro-Palestinian and/or antisemites need to have the ability to say what they want free from government ordered or directed oppression.
The Osama bit may have been an astro turf, not organic, generated.
Talk radio Erick Erickson noted some repeated phrases, like "existential crises", would not be the stock parlance of average TickTokers.
An AI creation is also a possibility.
Don’t use it. Ban it! If you think the CCP isn’t using this to help destroy the moral fiber of Western youth you aren’t paying attention.
If the answer to bad speech is more speech, does it follow that the answer to bad TikTok videos is more TikTok videos? However, one can see how the world’s 16 million Jews are going to have trouble competing on social media with 450 million Arabs or 1.8 billion Muslims. That’s why it’s so important how Israel conducts the war against Hamas.
Previous generations blamed television or popular music for the corruption of youth. The focus on TikTok seems misguided to me. There are just a lot of gross, angry people out there who really don't like Jews, and the killing of lots of Jews has made them feel like it's socially acceptable to say so.
The issue is not what is being said. The issue is the emerging immorality of young people.
Terrorism is ok? Bin Laden is ok? "From the river to the sea" is ok? Genocide of Jews is ok? Islamist jihadis are ok?
Many thanks to our morally bankrupt education system and, apparently, a generation of incompetent and/or amoral parents.
It is ironic that secular progressive Jews like Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky helped lay the groundwork for hatred of America and Israel.
Shame on you?
That's the best SBC can come up with?
It worked for Greta, but then she is pro-Hamas.
Jupiter said...
Wait, I can't keep up. Are we for Free Speech this week, or against it?
Exactly!
The left never loses sight of it's objective. Everything is a reason to implement their agenda of more power and control.
Do you guys who want to censor the people you don't like in the current crisis du jour really believe those you empower to do so are only going to use their powers for good?
Is the algorithm or people... persons to be the master?
It's not unreasonable to insist that, if there are going to be information/opinion "gatekeepers," they should be consistent across the board. If we're going to have free speech, let's have it. Right now, only the left, dems, and Hama/terrorism supporters have free speech: Call into question the results of an election? That's insurrectionist; it must be censored. "From the river to the sea?" No problem; that's just somebody's opinion. Let it stand.
If they are having trouble figuring out whether people mean genocide when they say, "from the river to the sea...", maybe they can hire some of the people who have spent the past 6 years telling us what Trump is thinking. Put those mind reading skills to real use.
[Debra] Messing... pressed executives on TikTok’s moderation of the pro-Palestinian slogan “from the river to the sea,” which many Americans regard as a call to eradicate Israel....
It is not "many." It is all, except for liars and idiots. There's no alternative interpretation possible without non-Euclidian geometry.
TikTok is the messenger. DEI is the message.
Let's not put the people who sent that message in charge of all the messengers.
Even amongst Jews and Jewish allies, the Zionist's weaponization of antisemitism is only boomeranging, making it easier for reasonable voices to be heard rejecting America's stupid approach to "the other." Listening to hysterics, and doing what they demand is bullshit, and people know it.
Let everybody read bin Laden - we did in the Aughts and no one became terrorists. Why the fear kids will now? What the fearful are afraid of is kids realizing they were lied to - and a worldview built on Holocaust movies ain't enough to hide it:
'Watching “The Zone of Interest,” you feel the full meaning of the term “concentration” camp. All the murder and death has been squeezed away from the world, hidden and compressed.'
We've been hearing a LOT of that from Gaza lately,...
We shouldn't jump to conclusions until the SPLC tells us what to think.
Truman Capote was at least as successful as the Jewish writers he mentioned and I’m confident I could come up scores of other writers who were successful and not Jewish. Hemingway, Faulkner …
Antisemitism may come under the heading of free speech for some commentators but it is a pernicious thing. That kind of hatred doesn’t benefit anyone. IMO it indicates a mental illness.
Cohen's entire career is based on upending what's traditional and making the normies squirm.
Now* he strongly objects.
This could be a way to generate (genuine apparent) calls for the thing the government wants to do most.
Censor.
Don't fall for it.
rcocean said...
Why is it that every Pro-Israel comment or concern about antisemitism is dialed up to 11/11, and hysterically overstates what's going on. Its the Holocaust all over again. Its just like Hitler. Its just like nazi Germany. its just like the inquistion. Jews are fleeing France or moving to New Zealand because OMG...
I find it fucking annoying. Now its Tik-tok (LOL). Here's a clue. take a chill pill, and stop trying to censor and gatekeep everything. Or getting the FBI/DOJ/DHS to monitor and attack everyone you don't like.
We have a 1st Admendment, I hope we can keep it
1) On the "dialup". Something about mass murder, including rape and mutilation of women and babies and desecration of their corpses just brings out the blood lust in people. It sure does in me. Whatcha gonna do?
2) Oh that 1st Amendment, wielded so deftly by leftist social media platforms, HR departments and their legal facilitators! Where is the commitment to free speech if we want to talk about the pathologies of women, homosexuals, or negros? Not so available for a long time. You must forgive people if they want to curtail the speech of those supporting mass murder. For reasons see 1) above.
I do not support censorship. Let people read the letter.
I read it, or skimmed it. Yawn.
TikTok is the messenger. DEI is the message.
Let's not put the people who sent that message in charge of all the messengers.
11
Well said, Bob Boyd. Freedom of speech means we have to allow those we find reprehensible to speak their sick withered little minds. We don’t have to like it.
I sat in a Quaker Church all weekend in disguise (my disguise is to be passive and polite) listening to professional national and international agitators pump up hatred of police, of Americans, of whites, of Jews. The audience was overwhelmingly white college students who never lived anywhere near the highs crime neighborhoods I lived in, who were the children of the rich, the usual children of revolution.
It's not just coming, folks. It's here. They snapped fingers and chanted and shrieked in unison. We have Los everyone under 50 and most over it.
It's nostalgia for the rich people at the newspaper and around the better neighborhoods, but around here, kids and cops get shot.
The AP and Reuters are misrepresenting what happened. The neighborhood -- good housing stock, brick ranch houses, modest, nice yards, are afraid to say what the really think of a bunch of "protesters" banging drums and blocking traffic on their streets.
But it's here. The protesters attacked the police. They use the college kids to wave puppets and appear innocent. Then the black bloc moved in and assaulted the police in a suburban street.
It's already here. It's not cute. It's not speech. It's not peaceful. Understand this already. Stop burying your head in the sand.
If you think back to Oct. 7, the reason why Hamas were able to behead young people and rape women was because Hamas violated the existing cease fire at the time.
When Trump says Tik Tok is dangerous for a variety of reasons, he's racist, but now....
The Democrat utopia has been turned upside down in a month.
imagine in 20 years
If you think back to Oct. 7, the reason why Hamas were able to behead young people and rape women was because Hamas violated the cease fire that was in place at the time.
"Blogger rcocean said..."Why is it that every Pro-Israel comment or concern about antisemitism is dialed up to 11/11, and hysterically overstates what's going on.". (emphasis added)
Says the man, and please correct me if I'm wrong, who still claims Israel killed 500 in a hospital parking lot.
But I do agree with your call for respecting the 1A.
This social uprising of anti-Semetism is yet another reason to demand unconditional surrender of Hamas, and to conduct war crime trials after the shooting stops. Let those supporting the Hamas death cult and its Iranian puppeteers see that they are promoting not religious martyrs but vile and insane cultists.
Freedom of speech assumes that the speech is uninfluenced by state actors. TicToc may not be free from such influence, therefore it is reasonable to consider addressing that. It is not inconsistent to want the TicToc issue addressed at the same time as you want to limit the US government from exercising control over free speech in other social media outlets. In the latter case government is overtly exercising control, in the former an foreign government is covertly promoting certain speech over others. Neither is true free-market free speech.
hombre said...
'...the pro-Palestinian slogan “from the river to the sea,” which many Americans regard as a call to eradicate Israel....'
What the hell else could it mean?
I think it matters who says it. If it is said by someone who is Hamas or Hamas-adjacent, then yes I think to that person it means we are going to kill or drive off all the Jews in Israel to make Palestine. If it was said by say a 19-year-old, American, college student who 3 months ago was previously intensely focused on averting the end of world from climate change, then I don't think that person is intending on calling for a genocide by saying that.
Why is it that every Pro-Israel comment or concern about antisemitism is dialed up to 11/11, and hysterically overstates what's going on.
Can you at least apply that same standard to the pro-Palestinian claims, like "Israel is committing genocide!" "Israel is an apartheid state!" Or is that somehow different?
and to conduct war crime trials after the shooting stops. Let those supporting the Hamas death cult and its Iranian puppeteers see that they are promoting not religious martyrs but vile and insane cultists.
I think you are misjudging how those people would perceive war crime trials of Hamas. The best thing for Israel would be every member of Hamas died fighting.
"Antisemitism may come under the heading of free speech for some commentators but it is a pernicious thing. That kind of hatred doesn’t benefit anyone."
As other commenters have alluded, the solution to bad speech is more speech, not less. The founding principle of the 1st amendment - and its case law - is the understanding that one person's "pernicious thing" is another person's staunch belief and not just one, but both parties, can be completely wrong.
These deluded yoots can get un-deluded by people explaining why the broadbrush of antisemitism is wrong. If you can't make that argument and make it convincingly, it might be your opinions that need refining, not their's.
On the "dialup". Something about mass murder, including rape and mutilation of women and babies and desecration of their corpses just brings out the blood lust in people. It sure does in me. Whatcha gonna do?
Yeah right. And its amazing how it doesn't bring up the "Blood lust" when 11,000 Civilian Gazans are killed and war crimes are committed by Israel. Including bombing hospitals and killing 4,000 kids. Somehow, when you bring that up all these hysterics full "blood lust", suddenly become cool headed tough giuys. That's war baby, they say. Yeah, you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.
How many thousands of tons of USA Bombs has Israel dropped on Gaza, one of the most densely populated places in the world? And that leaves out they have deprived Gaza of food, water, and fuel.
So spare me the rending of garments and river of tears for October 7th UNLESS you are willing to call for a ceasefire and willing to shed ONE tear for the dead Palestinian babies.
Time to get rid of TickTock. For clarity, my name here refers to my mechanical valve, not the **** Chinese app. Maybe I should change it.
If you want to see how hysterical and nonsensical (sic) these cries of "there's an explosion of antisemtism" are, look at two recent incidents in the USA:
1) A white Teenager was beaten to death by a mob of 15 black teens, this got minimal news coverage, and you had to look hard to find that it was done by blacks. No political leader has talked about it. Last time I looked, no one has been charged and no hate crime charges had been filed.
2) A Jew and a palestinian got into a dispute at a Pro-Palestine protest. Its not clear what really happened, but it appears the Jew may or may not been hit with a sign, fell down and died after his head struck pavement. The Police came and made no arrests, but the entire incident was blazened accross the media with cries that "A Jewish man has been murdered". The ADl got involved, twitter was full of hysteria over "Antisemites can kill Jews with impunity" etc. Schumer talked about it at the "rally against antisemtism". Now, we learn, the Palestinian has been charged with "involuntary manslaughter".
Notice that if the Man confronting the Palestian had NOT been Jewish, we probably wouldn't even know about his death. That's how "antisemitic" USA 2023 is.
Once again - after never again - the world is looking for solutions to the Jewish Question.
The one that the National Socialists settled on wasn't the only solution or the first solution. There were many others proposed before then.
But it is clear that some are adopting today that last solution to the Jewish Question. Don't ghettoize them, don't resettle them, don't confine them to some island like Madagascar. Just get rid of them.
Blogger Rosalyn C. said...
"Truman Capote was at least as successful as the Jewish writers he mentioned and I’m confident I could come up scores of other writers who were successful and not Jewish. Hemingway, Faulkner …
Antisemitism may come under the heading of free speech for some commentators but it is a pernicious thing. That kind of hatred doesn’t benefit anyone. IMO it indicates a mental illness."
So, noticing is antisemitism. Right? No noticing!
"What the fearful are afraid of is kids realizing they were lied to - and a worldview built on Holocaust movies ain't enough to hide it."
What, you mean the Stern Gang wasn't actually just like Paul Newman and Eva Marie Saint? This land isn't theirs? God didn't give this land to them?
Yes!! Because no one ever hated anyone else before TikTok.
First they came for the white conservatives, and Hollywood Jews said nothing because they were not white conservatives...
Oh well, better late than never I guess.
Shame on you?
That's the best SBC can come up with?
Agreed. When did Cohen become an old Jewish woman??
[Debra] Messing... pressed executives on TikTok’s moderation of the pro-Palestinian slogan “from the river to the sea,” which many Americans regard as a call to eradicate Israel....
It is not "many." It is all, except for liars and idiots. There's no alternative interpretation possible without non-Euclidian geometry.
They intend to abort them and sequester their carbon.
Eloi and Morlocks, Tutsi and Hutu, Zulu and Xhosa, Jews and socialists, babies and Progressives...
"from the river to the sea"
college student who 3 months ago was previously intensely focused on averting the end of world from climate change, then I don't think that person is intending on calling for a genocide by saying that.
They also believe that political congruence is equitable, that feminism is a forward-looking ideology, that the rainbow is not an albinophobic symbol, that babies are delivered by Stork, that gender is sex, that Pro-Choice is a humanitarian religion, that labor arbitrage is humane, that environmental arbitrage is conservationist, that Hamas et al have not been attempting to clear the land of Jews for nearly a century, that diversity is not a dogmatic belief in color judgments or class bigotry, that carbon... dioxide is a first-order forcing of global warming... climate change, that Green is not an environmental blight with unreliable energy producion, that medical care and education are affordable through progressive prices ("inflation"), that ethnic Springs are peaceful, that people can change their sex, etc.
A Jew and a palestinian got into a dispute at a Pro-Palestine protest. Its not clear what really happened, but it appears the Jew may or may not been hit with a sign, fell down and died after his head struck pavement. The Police came and made no arrests, but the entire incident was blazened accross the media with cries that "A Jewish man has been murdered". The ADl got involved, twitter was full of hysteria over "Antisemites can kill Jews with impunity" etc. Schumer talked about it at the "rally against antisemtism". Now, we learn, the Palestinian has been charged with "involuntary manslaughter".
The victim, in addition to the head injury from the fall, had injuries to his face. There is also apparently video evidence. Describing this as "got into a dispute" is nicely neutral, but it appears that the Muslim professor assaulted the guy because he was standing their holding an Israeli flag. Per the LAT, "involuntary manslaughter" means that the charges allege that Alnaji “did unlawfully kill a human being," but presumably did not intend to kill him, only to assault him. On the other hand, IANAL, but it seems to me that in some situations like that, the assaulter is charged with murder. Derek Chauvin comes to mind.
“Yeah right. And it’s amazing how it doesn't bring up the "Blood lust" when 11,000 Civilian Gazans are killed and war crimes are committed by Israel. Including bombing hospitals and killing 4,000 kids.”
And this is the commenter complaining about “hysteria,” while accepting without skepticism the claims of Hamas about what the evil Jews are doing. Auditioning for a job with CNN or the NYT?
These libtard celebs would be fine with TikTok if it was inciting violence against Trump supporters.
Hah! The Proud Boys Republic (PRC), which explains their Pro-Choice ethical religion, a selective-child policy, effectively one-girl under diversity taxonomy.
Calls for censorship of TikTok are indistinguishable from calls to censor you and me.
If kids really think Osama bin nihilist is some type of oracle, the problem is not Osama, nor TikTok.
I seem to remember when the outcry against pre-Elon Twitter was going on (because they were all-Left and mostly lies) and the Right was objecting to it, we were told "It is a private company, not the government, and therefore is not subject to 1A rights." Now the shoe is on the Chinese foot, and the Left (and others) are claiming 1A freedoms for the TikTok B.S. There is no such thing.
Ignore it. We DID find out that the censorship on Twitter was driven, quite a bit, by government intervention and pressure. So that does seem to be in 1A territory.
MarcusB. THEOLDMAN
RideSpaceMountain says, "These deluded yoots can get un-deluded by people explaining why the broadbrush of antisemitism is wrong. If you can't make that argument and make it convincingly, it might be your opinions that need refining, not their's."
There is no reasoning with people who hate. Ask them why they hate a group who in many cases they don't even know personally, and you'll get name called, insulted, and completely nonsensical lies; and even if you take time refuting their arguments with facts you will be met with, "I still think..." The whole point with haters, mostly their beliefs are based on what they heard as a child, so it's not open to rational conversation. I've tried discussing things online with strangers and it is pointless, other than to give me an opportunity to review facts and history for my own benefit. It's a waste of time like it is here where no matter how strong the evidence you offer you will then be met with the accusation that the evidence is fake, etc.
Jupiter says, "So, noticing is antisemitism. Right? No noticing!"
Capote "noticing" that Jews were strong in the literary sector of the market at a certain time is not antisemitism, but claiming that they prevented Christian writers from being successful is antisemitism. The reality is that Jews in the early 20th c. often entered certain areas of business (Hollywood, publishing, etc.) because they were shut out of other areas (like banking and law firms) due to prejudice. They had to start their own studios and publishing houses, etc. Because of talent and wise decisions in some cases they became successful, not because they control the world or hypnotized the world, etc., and deranged antisemites claim. The same hateful attitudes then attacked Jews for being too successful and like Capote, claimed "the Jews" prevented non-Jews from succeeding. All you have to do is google the literary leaders of the 20th century, see all the great writers who were not Jewish, to see how off based and absurd Capote's claim was. But of course that won't convince anyone who wants to hate Jews. You can't open a closed mind.
So are people now agreeing with Biden that no amendment is absolute?
How about From The River To The Sea Israel will stay free!
The Vault Dweller said...
hombre said...
'...the pro-Palestinian slogan “from the river to the sea,” which many Americans regard as a call to eradicate Israel....'
What the hell else could it mean?
I think it matters who says it. If it is said by someone who is Hamas or Hamas-adjacent, then yes I think to that person it means we are going to kill or drive off all the Jews in Israel to make Palestine. If it was said by say a 19-year-old, American, college student who 3 months ago was previously intensely focused on averting the end of world from climate change, then I don't think that person is intending on calling for a genocide by saying that.
************
Are you dwelling in a crypt, and not a vault?
Two weeks ago Douglas Murray skewered that same notion, put forth by Piers Morgan, by saying that "innocent" protestors can't hide behind such a claim if they've been in protests where others are using that phrase with clear genocidal intent.
They have to have LEARNED what the phrase means.
Does that 1968 cliam by Trumna Capote still hold today?
I'm not really into "literary" writers, but....are Jews receiving favoritism among publishers today?
Can someone straighten me out?
A white Teenager was beaten to death by a mob of 15 black teens, this got minimal news coverage, and you had to look hard to find that it was done by blacks.
True, as far as it goes.
No political leader has talked about it.
No Democrat has talked about it.
Last time I looked, no one has been charged and no hate crime charges had been filed.
Look again. Eight people have been charged. Hate charges have yet to be decided on, but it’s not clear that it was a hate crime. He attempted to intervene in a robbery and assault, which is a risky proposition at any time.
The Vault Dweller said: "...then I don't think that person is intending on calling for a genocide by saying that."
So if a terrorist slogan calling for genocide of Israeli Jews is repeated verbatim by some dumbass college kid the meaning changes?
I see.
The Vault Dweller said...
"I think it matters who says [from the river to the sea]. If it is said by someone who is Hamas or Hamas-adjacent, then yes I think to that person it means we are going to kill or drive off all the Jews in Israel to make Palestine. If it was said by, say, a 19-year-old, American, college student who 3 months ago was previously intensely focused on averting the end of world from climate change, then I don't think that person is intending on calling for a genocide by saying that."
Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.
Behold the executioners:
https://www.memri.org/tv/gaza-kindergarten-ceremony-stage-military-attack-hostagetaking
But they're only kids, right? And they're learning the same as our kids, to hate America. Only they don't carry silly signs.
They’ve released videos of the massacre scenes. Worth watching before reading anything from the excuse makers…
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/
1)”A white Teenager was beaten to death by a mob of 15 black teens, this got minimal news coverage.”
This was a top news story. I just googled it - reported on PBS, CBS, Fox, in NYT, WaPo, NYPost, LATimes plus extensive Las Vegas coverage. Eight students have been arrested on murder charges.
2)“A Jew and a palestinian got into a dispute at a Pro-Palestine protest. Its not clear what really happened, but it appears the Jew may or may not been hit with a sign, fell down and died after his head struck pavement.”
This is the first I’ve heard of a sign. According to an eyewitness, Kessler was struck by a megaphone connected by a lanyard to the man who has since been charged with manslaughter. Eyewitnesses reported a bruise on the side of Kessler’s face.
“Ventura County Medical Examiner Dr. Christopher Young said that an autopsy found Kessler died from a blunt force head trauma, and that the injuries were consistent with a fall. Kessler also had injuries that “could be consistent” with a blow to the face.
Ventura County Sheriff Jim Fryhoff said “. . . I think the medical examiner has said the injuries on the face could have been caused by a megaphone.”
The German word was "Judenfrei" -- Without Jews. That was the objective of Hitler and his supporters. "Palestine from the River to the Sea" means NO JEWS. Think about it. For several generations, the State of Israel has included non-Jews. But the objective of Hamas and its supporters is to create a state in which NO JEWS ARE ALLOWED. To pretend that the phrase doesn't mean that is to be complicit in it.
There’s one short video showing the Hamas murderers placing a young handcuffed woman in the back seat of a Jeep (see “Israeli citizen abducted to Gaza in a jeep“). You can see the back of her jeans below her waste soaked in blood and if you look closely you’ll see the slash the hamassholes made at the rear of the right ankle to prevent her from running…
F**king dogshit Nazi corksoakers.
Attack the anti-semites who post, not Tic Tok, the platform.
Same rules for Twitter/X.
They are either a utility or a publisher. If the former, their ability to restrict and responsibility to restrict content should be very strictly limited by the First Amendment. If the latter, they should be subject to the same rules as publishers.
@effinayright
@hombre
@Rocco
I'm not arguing that a From the River to the Sea event wouldn't be genocidal only that some people who may chant it or go to a Pro-Palestine rally don't really understand what they are calling for. Here is a clip from a comedy show a couple weeks ago that I think likely reflects the mindset of some of these protestors. From The River To The Sea. Especially if you are talking about young college kids they might prioritize cheering for the 'right side' over actually understanding a situation.
Blogger effinayright said...
Two weeks ago Douglas Murray skewered that same notion, put forth by Piers Morgan, by saying that "innocent" protestors can't hide behind such a claim if they've been in protests where others are using that phrase with clear genocidal intent.
They have to have LEARNED what the phrase means.
I think this is a good point. The longer this goes on the less of an excuse any person would have to still say "From the River to the Sea", and not not understand what that would mean if implemented.
Tik Tok is owned by Trump
problem solved.
"Eight high school students in Las Vegas have been arrested on suspicion of murder in the fatal beating of a classmate, "
AP lead in. NOT "Eight black teens arrested for murder of white HS student". Further, the attack was on NOV 1st. No hate crime charges have been filed. It took the authorities almost 2 weeks to arrest anyone.
Meanwhile, the day of the OTHER incident we knew a JEWISH man had died and speculation that he was MURDERED. No hestitancy in identifying the ethnic identity of the Arab involved either.
If you're trying to argue there's one standard for Jewish whites and Christian whites in the MSM or among the political elite - no sale. And just remember: We have an explosion of antisemitism in the USA. LOL.
Why should I doubt the Hamas numbers. These are numbers from the Palestine health authority. They've provided indepedent news outlets with names and address of the dead.
Meanwhile Israel is still hiding all the names, ages, and occupations of their 1400 dead. Unlike you, I accept their numbers. But then I accept PHA numbers too.
Anyway, if tommorrow the UN verifed the PHA numbers of civilian dead, you'd just say "That's war baby" or "Those kids deserved to die. They're a-rabs".
Again, this insane hyper-Zionist rhetoric. Israel is killing of THOUSANDS of innocents in Gaza and committing war crimes, but who cares about that? Why somebody doesnt like Jews on Ticktok. That's the important story. Uh, and one Jewish guy in LA got in a dispute and fell down and hit his head. That's the even more important story!
What, you mean the Stern Gang wasn't actually just like Paul Newman and Eva Marie Saint? This land isn't theirs? God didn't give this land to them?
god helps those who help themselves. Which is probably he doesn’t seem to be doing much for the Paleostinians.
"Calls for censorship of TikTok are indistinguishable from calls to censor you and me."
@Rosalyn, Lem said it better so why double up.
Well thank goodness Minister Louis Farra-Crack arrived on the scene to provide his expert analysis on the matter! Which as one might predict, consists of his partial agreement with bin Laden - namely his often expressed desire to retroactively redline the Jews out of the Middle East.
On the other issue, he seems to forget that terrorism did increase in the aughts, so apparently bin Laden’s recruitment tools did work. But at least he can pick and choose how he’ll validate al Qaeda and why. Must be nice.
One wonders if he’ll do the same for Ayatollah Khameini, since that’s the guy currently destabilizing the Middle East with endless terrorism based again on that goal that Crack sees eye to eye with him on: Redlining the Jews.
I believe Crack sees going along with that goal as a way to partially appease Persian demands… It’s as if he’s saying, “Yes Master, if I agree to the death (or at least dispossession) of the Jews, maybe then you won’t keep chanting “Death to America? Please, Master!”
Maybe he’ll ask you to dance for him, too.
The problem is not with free speech, but with the dearth of good people who are willing to make use of their free speech to denounce the anti-Semites. When the public square is inundated with hate speech and there are few people willing to challenge them, then the haters are in control of the marketplace of ideas. Why is the speech at elite universities controlled by the anti-Semites? Why doesn’t the administration speak out against the students and professors who are calling for the destruction of the state of Israel and the extermination of its Jewish citizens? Why doesn’t the rest of the student body and professors speak out against such groups as Students for Justice in Palestine when they are calling for the murder of all Jews in Israel? Why do they allow the canard that Israel is an apartheid state to go unchallenged? Yes, we need free speech. Unfortunately too few good people are willing to exercise their right to free speech and challenge the hate speech on campus.
rcocean said: “No hate crime charges have been filed” in the death of the student. No hate crime charges have been filed in either case. You’re right - the majority of the coverage of Mr. Kessler identifies his religion and none of the coverage of the beating death of Jonathan Lewis Jr. mentions race.
boatbuilder: "Attack the anti-semites who post, not Tic Tok, the platform.
Same rules for Twitter/X."
Uh, no.
If you believe Tic Tok is not a social media weapon being used and directed by the ChiComs to primarily influence US "yutes" as part of their long term strategic communications effort in conjunction with their overall global strategy, then you are a fool.
The ChiComs are thinking 25 to 50 to 100 years out and their actions from Belt and Road to the purchase of influence in our communities, academia and buying off politicians demonstrate that clearly.
The discussion should be focused on the degree to which this Tic Tok ChiCom effort is "effective" and should be allowed to be continued, if at all.
Not on some minor hyped-up lefty US anti-Musk ploy by the democraticals around false "anti-semetic" lies.
To even mention X/Twitter, which represents a free market push back against centralized mestasticizing leftist total information media control in the US, in the same breath/sentence/paragraph as Tic Tok, is ridiculous.
The Vault Dweller:
If it was said by say a 19-year-old, American, college student who 3 months ago was previously intensely focused on averting the end of world from climate change, then I don't think that person is intending on calling for a genocide by saying that.
So they're not a stick of dynamite with a lit fuse, they're packets of dried iodide nitrate ready to explode with a touch.
Those types are even more dangerous.
Funny how the name Obama hasn't come up so far. If our youth are newly tuned into the wisdom of Bin Laden and the "lies" America told about him to justify its own nefarious machinations, certainly they're bound to turn on the US president who had him hunted down and killed.
hpudding said...
"Well thank goodness Minister Louis Farra-Crack arrived on the scene to provide his expert analysis on the matter!"
As Norman Finkelstein told Candace Owens, it does NOT require a PhD to know what's-what here. That "Command Center" in a Gaza hospital is as real as all those "decapitated babies" Joe Biden claimed he was shown. Meanwhile, everything the opposition says not only checks out but has real journalists behind it. Easy Peazy. Listen:
So-called conservatives, who are now siding with Joe Biden without batting an eye, acting like the college campus "Cancel Culture" mavens they hated just weeks ago, and openly smearing people - for merely insisting the First Amendment is our birthright - are exposing Jews to danger, NOT hurting anyone else. So keep it up:
"US public support for Israel drops; majority backs a ceasefire"
Iman said...
"They’ve released videos of the massacre scenes. Worth watching before reading anything from the excuse makers…"
The power of murder porn: Staying so consumed with what happened on Oct.7 - one day - that all the previous provocations by Israelis, which have gone on for years, disappear. Amazing. This was during a cease-fire, remember:
'In February and again in June, hundreds of settlers mobbed Palestinian villages, burning down houses while Israeli soldiers fired tear gas at villagers. These attacks received official sanction, with one minister calling for an attacked Palestinian village to be “erased.”'
No excuses.
Our Filipino grand daughter attended a liberal college in Minnesota, and she told us that the local students were all into absurd causes: and her fellow foreign students would just shake their heads and say: These kids should spend some time in our home country and see reality. Then they might not go around praising such things (i.e. socialism, no police, a green agenda, no fossil fuel).
Same here.
Maybe they might ask Nobel prize winners Malala and Narges Mohammidi about living in a Sharia country.
What, you mean the Stern Gang wasn't actually just like Paul Newman and Eva Marie Saint?
The “Stern Gang” was the British name for the Irgun, which really was using using terror against British forces in the run-up to 1948 (the Brits barely even trying to hide their clandestine support for the Arabs). However Paul Newman plays a member of the Haganah, which evolved into the IDF. Eva Marie Saint’s character is an American nurse and a gentile. By the end of the movie it is clear that her character will provide medical support to the Haganah fighters in the coming battle, and if they both survive the war she and Newman’s character will marry.
Maybe he’ll ask you to dance for him, too.
There’s a video circulating of Shani Louk and another young woman dancing, apparently at the Concert for Peace where she was raped and murdered. She and the other girl are young and pretty and, to my eyes, pretty good dancers. Neither deserved to end their lives raped and murdered and, in Shani’s case, her body displayed on the back of a pickup truck for little Palestinian boys to spit on. Neo-Nazi’s like Crack and rcocean apparently differ with me in that point.
Why should I doubt the Hamas numbers. These are numbers from the Palestine health authority.
I already called you a nitwit idiot, and a neo-Nazi. You don’t have to keep proving it.
Anyway, if tommorrow [sic] the UN verifed [sic] the PHA numbers of civilian dead …
We’d assume the UN was corrupt. Which it is well known to be.
So tell me, genius, how does Israel see to it that nothing like October 7th ever happens again without killing lots of Palestinians? “From the river to the sea” can be applied to Palestinians too, can it not?
rcocean: "Why should I doubt the Hamas numbers."
Because they're propagandists, like you.
Big Mike said...
"There’s a video circulating of Shani Louk and another young woman dancing, apparently at the Concert for Peace where she was raped and murdered. She and the other girl are young and pretty and, to my eyes, pretty good dancers. Neither deserved to end their lives raped and murdered and, in Shani’s case, her body displayed on the back of a pickup truck for little Palestinian boys to spit on. Neo-Nazi’s like Crack and rcocean apparently differ with me in that point."
What? Wait - I was too busy admiring a photo of Eva Braun doing yoga to notice,...
I just now read through all the comments (which I don't usually do), and I have to say that this represents the best of the Althouse blog: spirited disagreement.
jaydub said...
rcocean: "Why should I doubt the Hamas numbers."
Because they're propagandists, like you.
Said when even Israeli journalists don't trust what Israel says.
You guys are a hoot.
--- Hemingway, Faulkner … Antisemitism may come under the heading of free speech for some commentators but it is a pernicious thing. That kind of hatred doesn’t benefit anyone. IMO it indicates a mental illness. [RosalynC]
Hemingway and Faulkner were from a previous generation to Truman Capote, Rosalyn. Updike might be a better counter-example, although he was a few years later. Nonetheless, you would dismiss Capote's knowledge of his own field, based on so little? On your faith that Jewish personal and professional clannishness couldn't be? Capote just made it up and it had to represent antisemitism?
New York City can be a clannish place; a small world -- perhaps more so in the 1950s. University English departments from Columbia (Lionel and Diana Trilling) to CCNY are clannish places. The Partisan Review (Philips and Rahv), New York Review of Books (Silvers and Epstein).... etc. (Also very leftist, some outright Communist origins.) Not so sure that there was no basis for Capote's comment, even considering his own catty nature.
Jew-Hate is for people with small minds.
@Crack, making fun of a young woman whose life was cut short by murderous rapist thugs is pretty low, even for you.
If anything, Sasha Baron Cohen and Debra Messing harm the righteous cause by weighing in. They're such hateful, spiteful people to the more solid supporters of Israel and Christianity.
They have shown nothing but scorn towards those of us who are consistent Zionist supporters and observant Christians. Their best move now is to just shut up and let ethically consistent people speak. They are neither.
Big Mike said...
"I already called you a nitwit idiot, and a neo-Nazi."
Yet you can't understand how you're having no effect on anyone's opinion.
Crack no longer even tries to disguise his glib pleasure at the death of Jews. In a war between barbarism and civilization, I find it very easy to pick sides. If there must be total war, it is only because the weaker party has decided so. This seems like a poor choice.
100+ Biden's OWN STAFFERS Accuse Him of 'MISINFORMATION' On Israel-Palestine
Big Mike said...
"@Crack, making fun of a young woman whose life was cut short by murderous rapist thugs is pretty low, even for you."
Eva Braun died by suicide. I didn't mention anyone else. Your imagination is spoiled milk.
Old and slow said...
"f there must be total war,..."
You wanna play Joseph Goebbels
"I already called you a nitwit idiot, and a neo-Nazi."
Yet you can't understand how you're having no effect on anyone's opinion.
Oh, I know how!
Infiltration of the universities with woke, “post-colonial” commie claptrap sent courtesy of Ghazi Hamad and the ayatollah’s finest. The kids now find Hamas to be as cool as Che Guevara. Aren’t you a pretty one to adorn yourself in it.
And your and their opinion is still not the one accepted by the majority of Americans who aren’t 20-something left-wingers, or the majority of Europe unwilling to have open borders aimed at handing over their countries to sharia law-advocating fanatics.
But keep twirling to the tunes of your TikTok-driven source of information. Twirl! Twirl!
Keep dancing for that ayatollah, Crack. At this point you’re basically doing Palestinian minstrelsy. And the content for it is rich - just go to MEMRI and check out the videos on how Gaza kids are educated by Mickey Mouse to glorify martyrdom, which that high-pitched fraud Finkelstein himself basically did as well, praising the actions of Hamas.
No one’s saying Israel’s actions or leadership can’t be criticized, or even held accountable by someone objective. Calling out what they bungled up. But that’s a far cry from just being a puppet for Ghazi Hamad, amplifying the talking points that he whispers to you from luxury Gulf hotels about redlining Jews, as he manages his “war.”
You should also be a little less naive about swallowing the claptrap sold to you by loonies like Finkelstream, who lives in the Holocaust that his parents used as a dating venue, before it ended and they became commies, teaching their son to see genocide in every geranium - ripe for being rescued by the Red Army.
Tina Trent said...
"If anything, Sasha Baron Cohen and Debra Messing harm the righteous cause by weighing in. They're such hateful, spiteful people,..."
Wow. Somebody noticed "hateful, spiteful people" amongst Zionists - that's a first. Not figuring that out, because Zionists are killing thousands of children, is odd, but, hey - if it's comedians and actors who offend you - then so be it.
"They have shown nothing but scorn towards those of us who are consistent Zionist supporters and observant Christians."
Your blind "support" caused this evil. And observant Christians raised me: I don't remember them cheering the death of kids - ever.
"Their best move now is to just shut up and let ethically consistent people speak."
Anybody who thinks telling Americans to shut up - so only they can be heard - are NOT Americans, are deserving of scorn, and should probably practice what they shouldn't be preaching and shut-the-fuck-up themselves. You "ethically consistent people" are now siding with Joe Biden, promoting "Cancel Culture," and openly smearing people as antisemites who've stood by the side of Jews for decades.
Your ethics are shit.
If anything, Sasha Baron Cohen and Debra Messing harm the righteous cause by weighing in. They're such hateful, spiteful people to the more solid supporters of Israel and Christianity.
They have shown nothing but scorn towards those of us who are consistent Zionist supporters and observant Christians. Their best move now is to just shut up and let ethically consistent people speak. They are neither.
Hateful? Sounds like someone needs a sense of humor.
There’s nothing wrong with distinguishing between decent folks standing up for what they think is right and neo-Evangelicals just aiming to spoil one for Armageddon. No offense to Evangelicals. But let’s live in the here-and-now and not pretend to be seeing spite lurking around every corner, just waiting to jump out at lovely people. This was similar to the paranoia Mel Gibson suffered from.
Your ethics are shit.
Now this sounds hateful and spiteful.
Christians initially determined the definition of “just war.” Not pan-Arab nationalists, not Iran’s Supreme Leader looking for the magical twelfth imam, not The Muslim Brotherhood and certainly not the UN with its audience of tribal dictators and human rights abusers, making careers out of driving around in $40,000 SUVs and preening about making refugee status heritable in ONE national community for multiple generations so that they could whip up hate and spite against the nation that doesn’t have dozens of co-religionists sympathizing with it on a knee-jerk basis.
You don’t have to cheer on war or war casualties to spread hate and ignorance further and wider than any Iranian-built medium-range ballistic missile. Learn how to love and quit spitting rhetorical rubber bullet fire everywhere. You’re as sloppy with your aim as a three-year old boy standing near a toilet he’s still learning how to use.
Israeli forces have killed everyone in the al-Shifa hospital I.C.U..
Children are enduring amputations without anesthesia.
"Ethically consistent" my ass.
Crack, I was going to call you an ignorant fool but that would be giving you too much credit. You have no knowledge of the history of Israel and the Arabs in the Middle East, but you do not let your ignorance prevent you from commenting on the war in Gaza. Worse, you search the Internet to find someone who agrees with your hateful and bigoted views. For example, you keep on quoting Normal Finkelstein who has been an open Anti-Semite his whole life. He has as much credibility on the Israel-Arab conflict as David Duke on US race relations. In your previous rantings on this website before you disappeared for a while, I dismissed you as a bigot who hated white people. You have now shown that you are also a raging anti-Semite who would be happy to see Israel destroyed and its Jewish population exterminated.
What Israel's raid of the Hamas "command center" in the al-Shifa hospital has turned up:
"10 guns, a box of dates, and some WD-40"
Israel told Palestinians to evacuate to southern Gaza — and stepped up attacks there
"Consistently ethical people."
Richard said...
"Crack, I was going to call you an ignorant fool but that would be giving you too much credit. You have no knowledge of the history of Israel and the Arabs in the Middle East, but you do not let your ignorance prevent you from commenting on the war in Gaza."
In other words, I'm like everybody else: looking at a 75-year old crime with fresh eyes and finding Zionists wanting. Einstein said the Zionists were wrong and to blame for everything - and he knew the history - but I'm supposed to listen to you? You - who supposedly know the history - but have done a shit job of enlightening the rest of us, do you blame yourselves for the oversight? No! You, with the bloody hands, call everyone else names now and - coupled with the crimes we see - think you present yourselves as credible.
"Worse, you search the Internet to find someone who agrees with your hateful and bigoted views."
I love debating with psychics. You know what I'm doing - through the internet. Am I looking at shit that comes up in my feed? NO - I'm just trying to find someone who agrees with my hateful and bigoted views. That's what the Shabbos for several synagogues do, right? Along with taking abuse for thinking?
"For example, you keep on quoting Normal Finkelstein who has been an open Anti-Semite his whole life."
Both of his parents lost their entire family in the Holocaust. You ought to be ashamed.
"He has as much credibility on the Israel-Arab conflict as David Duke on US race relations."
Show me David Duke's intimate connection to blacks - as Finkelstein has to Jews - to make that analogy work.
"In your previous rantings on this website before you disappeared for a while, I dismissed you as a bigot who hated white people."
You're not very bright, are you? This blog is owned by a white lady. It's being littered with racists means nothing to you. (Oligonicella a few days ago: "I'll take screaming kids over pissy cotton-heads any day.") Now who has "no knowledge of the history"? The racism I find here, daily, goes right over your (and everyone else's) head. But you think I - the only black here, who has a cadre of white folks who follow me around just to heckle me - I'm the racist. And y'all are the "consistently ethical people."
"You have now shown that you are also a raging anti-Semite who would be happy to see Israel destroyed and its Jewish population exterminated."
People who have let Oct. 7 drive therm over the edge keep accusing everyone else of that, though no one has said that or wished for it. Christopher Hitchens said Zionism "is a waste of Judaism" and y'all are definitely proving him correct. You betray everything about it that I've admired as an atheist. How much damage, you're determined to inflict upon it, will just have to be seen.
Crack, just out of curiosity. Do you hate the black Ethiopian and Jamaican Rastafarian Zionists also or just the white ones?
How about the brown ones?
I guess I don’t understand the situation in Gaza, since Egypt has a border with South Gaza, and a gate, and they are Muslim, and there are no Israelis there, why don’t they give Gaza food, and let them come into Egypt and escape the war. If the Palestinian civilians are refusing to go to Egypt, and would rather stay in Gaza and be close to a war, no one can force them to go to Egypt.
I would like Al Jazzera to report on this. If the statement is made that they want to stay in Gaza to show support for Hamas or protect their homes, then they are co-combatants, refugees are people who have it bad enough to seek refuge.
And even though I am just an old joe, if I were a Palestinian doc, before giving a kid an amputation without anesthesia, I would pick her up and start walking to the front to find an Israeli combat medic, and force someone to shoot me for being humane. No shit. But my priors are that the story is bs.
UN condemns 'horrifying' attacks in Gaza as 'at least 50 killed in Israeli airstrike on school in a refugee camp'
Commenting on Ride Space Mountain's Truman Capote quote form Playboy. Vance Bourjaily's novel "Now Playing in Canterbury" is on my list of overlooked novels that I really liked and occasionally think about. I pasted his list into my further exploration file though I was not particularly impressed by "A Separate Peace" which I recall as over-praised. I remember talking about that Playboy interview with my mother. I recall the conclusion was that if you weren't going to read authors who had a whiff of antisemitism you would have to skip a lot of good stuff in American, English and European literature. And honestly, the Jewish Literary Mafia froze out Herman Wouk too because he was a religious Jew.
I am in favor of letting everyone talk but "From the River to the Sea" is aspirational to genocide and should be condemned in the same way any offensive word or phrase is. I think a good comparison would be saying that Blacks should be sent back to Africa. Anyone who thinks October 7 was inspirational should be shunned and shamed.
hpudding said...
"Crack, just out of curiosity. Do you hate the black Ethiopian and Jamaican Rastafarian Zionists also or just the white ones?
How about the brown ones?"
Provide a quote, by me, that indicates "hate" towards anyone. I can show you tons of bloodthirsty, racist ones from the rest of you "consistently ethical people" - not to mention your adoption of the same "cancel culture" you used to detest - but I say you can't produce a single hateful quote, from me, anywhere.
It's all in your racist white heads.
Josephbleau said...
"I guess I don’t understand the situation in Gaza, since Egypt has a border with South Gaza, and a gate, and they are Muslim, and there are no Israelis there, why don’t they give Gaza food, and let them come into Egypt and escape the war."
You can find an answer to that question on YouTube in 5 min. if you wanted.
"If the Palestinian civilians are refusing to go to Egypt, and would rather stay in Gaza and be close to a war, no one can force them to go to Egypt."
OK, I can see logic isn't in your wheelhouse.
"I would like Al Jazzera to report on this."
Right: you found an aspect of this they missed (rolls eyes).
"And even though I am just an old joe, if I were a Palestinian doc, before giving a kid an amputation without anesthesia, I would pick her up and start walking to the front to find an Israeli combat medic, and force someone to shoot me for being humane. No shit. But my priors are that the story is bs."
That's the first thing you've said that makes you OK with me. Hear the late, great Hear Dr. Hammam Alloh here. He did what he could.
Ok, so you don’t “hate” the 8 million Jewish Israelis (and 2 million Christian, Druze, and Muslim Israelis?) of whom you demand exile from their country, but instead call for their dispossession, removal and banishment out of love or some other less contemptuous gesture. Have I got that right?
It's all in your racist white heads.
Nice collectivist language there. And elsewhere.
Christopher Hitchens said Zionism "is a waste of Judaism" and y'all are definitely proving him correct.
Not sure what an atheist would have meant by that but it’s kind of odd that he’d pretend the religion isn’t intimately connected to the land. Most of it is about harvest festivals related to seasonal pilgrimages and a celebration of the native produce taking center stage at its holidays, but I guess this would have been another one of his “even-handed” comments to prove that he wasn’t just picking on the Muslims and their doctrines of holy war, subjugation of the non-Muslims, sharia-condoned mutilations and killing of infidels, apostates and gays, etc. Until those peoples’ countries submit!
But of course he had to throw them a bone to prove that he wasn’t “favoring” their favorite enemy target the Jews - and it looks like you’re fetching it! Fetch that bone, Crack! Run for it!
You betray everything about it that I've admired as an atheist. How much damage, you're determined to inflict upon it, will just have to be seen.
Seeing how little you know about their religion, I’m not sure what you think this war has to do with Judaism. Other than possibly a religious commandment to protect their own lives and save as many others as possible. But of course if you have a problem with that then you don’t need to pretend it’s they who are betraying something. If you think they have no right to a military defense and should take acts of mass rape, execution, kidnapping and mutilation as something “they had coming,” then just remove the mask and say so. I mean, you kind of already have - about a hundred times or so. But just do it with less equivocation and appeals to fairness.
Hamas says 60 hostages killed in Israeli airstrikes on Gaza Strip since Oct. 7: 23 bodies of hostages under rubble: Hamas’ armed wing says
That's 1/4 of the hostages already gone, because the Zionists - who we know got taken by surprise - can't admit they still don't know what's going on. Faced with Hamas' plan - two years in the making - they're being toyed with. Simply because Hamas knows the Zionists can't fathom not doing what they're doing. Stupidly killing everything in sight.
It's enough to make one think the poison of the Holocaust may not have been the best foundation for birthing a nation.
Once, in a jungle, a donkey and a tiger were having a conversation. The Donkey told the Tiger, “The grass is blue”, the Tiger replied, “No, the grass is green”. The discussion became heated, so the two decided to submit the issue to arbitration. So they approached the lion. As they approached the lion on his throne, the donkey started screaming, “Your highness, isn’t it true that the grass is blue?” The lion replied, “If you believe it's true, then the grass is blue”. The donkey jumped forward and continued, “The tiger disagrees with me, contradicts me, annoys me. Please punish him!” The King then declared, “The tiger will be punished”. Three days of silence, he declared. The donkey jumped with joy and went on its way content and repeating “The grass is blue! The grass is blue!” celebrating his victory.
In private the tiger asked the lion, “Your Majesty! Why have you punished me? After all, the grass is green” the lion replied, “You’ve known and seen that the grass is green”. The tiger asked, “So, then why did you punish me?” The lion said, “That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green, the punishment is because it is degrading for a brave and intelligent creature like you, to waste time arguing with a fool. And on top of that you came and bothered me with that question, just to validate something you already knew was true”.
This Jewish Man Lived in Gaza What He Saw Will SHOCK You
The Vault Dweller said
"I think it matters who says it. If it is said by someone who is Hamas or Hamas-adjacent, then yes I think to that person it means we are going to kill or drive off all the Jews in Israel to make Palestine. If it was said by say a 19-year-old, American, college student who 3 months ago was previously intensely focused on averting the end of world from climate change, then I don't think that person is intending on calling for a genocide by saying that."
I think anyone who hears that 19 year old should tell them how offensive what they are saying is and why. I also think ripping down posters, vandalizing public areas and screaming at fellow students in any cause should result in appropriate sanctions at the school they are attending.
Crack, where did you get this weird idea that I wanted to have a debate with you? The purpose of my post was to let everyone know what a piece of shit you are. Anyone who advocates for genocide is beyond redemption. You are so filled with hate that you cannot see what a despicable person you are. Your love for the Palestinians only goes as far as your wishing for the extermination of Israel. How come your great concern for the oppressed does not extend to the North Koreans, Uyghurs, Syrians, Iranians, and all of the other people living under authoritarian governments? The fact that the Gazans are under the control of Hamas, a bunch of murderous thugs, does not concern you in the least. If Israel were wiped off the map, you wouldn’t care a wit about the fate of the Palestinians under Hamas.
Christopher Hitchens said Zionism "is a waste of Judaism"
Given that Zionism was a secular, nationalist movement, Hitchens’ comment was weirder in even more ways than Crack realizes. (Not that he realizes much). But for Hitchens’ sake, Europe had been realizing for centuries that nationalist movements were liberating - first by liberating each country’s ruler from a theocratic alternative and secondarily by accompanying greater freedoms for the people.
Contrast that to the “norm” in the Mideast were the theocratic imperial Caliphate model prevailed and any small pockets of non-Arabs left had mostly been brutalized into an oblivion by the caliphs’ policies.
But I’m wasting my breath. Cracker Jack is actually arguing that selling land to Jews was wrong and allowing them to defend their purchases was more wrong still. So the guy who’s “defending Judaism” (or whatever) does so on the basis of denying them property rights and proposing that banishing 8 million of them from the last place in the Middle East that they’ve been able to defend is the way to do it.
So Crack, can I ask when and how we can expect you to organize your mass expulsion and exodus of millions of Jews from the promised land, as your prescription for “saving” Judaism? Any idea of the costs? I can tell this is something you’ve put a lot of thought into - or what would qualify as thought for someone whose thinking is as shallow as yours. But I digress. There are Jews to be ethnically cleansed out of the Middle East and I can tell you’re anxious for them to agree to it. A man of your means and accomplishment should surely be capable of raising the funds for this.
Or were you offering to host them all at some property of your own?
And still no word on whether you’ll sponsor an expulsion of the non-Jewish Israelis who have no interest in living under Hamas/PLO rule and rightly anticipate that they’ll be just as quickly targeted for murder as those Jews you pretend to be so interested in saving.
Get crackin’!
“Hamas says 60 hostages killed in Israeli airstrikes on Gaza Strip since Oct. 7: “
Like when Capone tied up the kidnapped witnesses in his distillery and the building was burned in a raid by the feds. Damn Feds murdered them.
I am sure the belief here is that Hamas is an innocent bystander to the hostage deaths. But we only have non credible testimony so far to support the charge, Hamas can deliver the bodies one way or another.
Once Hamas announces that Israel has killed all the hostages Israel can go in and destroy all the tunnels, there will be no hostages left, no tactical value.
“Right: you found an aspect of this they missed (rolls eyes).”
I don’t know any aspect of this, I just thought that Al Jazzera might know why the Palestinians were not going to Egypt. The Egyptian PR guy said in the US news that they would not let the Palestinians in because they were afraid that they could not go back. That is the better dead than live in Egypt principle. Is that really Arab policy? Arabs seem to value the Palestinian people more as a tool to get at Israel than as friends and fellow humans. But I don’t know, maybe there is another reason. Perhaps an Arab news group could tell us their viewpoint, I have not found it in a you tube I have seen, That is why I asked. Certainly not just to make your eyes roll at me.
hpudding said...
"Ok, so you don’t “hate” the 8 million Jewish Israelis,...of whom you demand exile from their country, but instead call for their dispossession, removal and banishment out of love or some other less contemptuous gesture. Have I got that right?"
No. You get nothing right and can't accept it. You're not the first person I've had to remind that I don't "demand" anything. I'm not the one who's triggered, remember? YOU are. YOU are the one making demands others do as you say. That's why you're browbeating me now. Like a Nazi, you can't handle the idea someone isn't snapping into line, as YOU demand.
"Nice collectivist language there. And elsewhere."
I only deploy it when faced with racism. Want it to stop? You have the power: as we used to sing in The Beatnigs, I fight fire with water.
Christopher Hitchens said Zionism "is a waste of Judaism" and y'all are definitely proving him correct.
"Not sure what an atheist would have meant by that but it’s kind of odd that he’d pretend the religion isn’t intimately connected to the land."
He was an atheist, as am I, and we both found things in Judaism to admire. Zionism is as made-up as the hooey "history" that Himmler invented for the Nazis.
"...This would have been another one of his “even-handed” comments to prove that he wasn’t just picking on the Muslims,..."
Hitchens didn't care about even-handedness in the face of truth.
"But of course he had to throw them a bone to prove that he wasn’t “favoring” their favorite enemy target the Jews"
Hitch was a Jew.
"Seeing how little you know about their religion, I’m not sure what you think this war has to do with Judaism."
I knew a bit about Judaism, but hardly anything of Zionism.
"If you think they have no right to a military defense and should take acts of mass rape, execution, kidnapping and mutilation as something “they had coming,” then just remove the mask and say so. I mean, you kind of already have,..."
Only in your poison white mind.
Richard said...
"Anyone who advocates for genocide is beyond redemption."
And - according to you - that's what I've been doing. Openly. Every day, here, since Oct. 7 - when I've told y'all my first girlfriend was Jewish. My friends are Jewish. I've had Jewish roommates. I've made bagels from scratch. I've served in synagogues as the shabbos. AND I WANT THEM ALL DEAD.
That not only makes a lot of sense, but also proves A) you're totally sane, and B) your reading comprehension skills are in peak shape.
hpudding said...
"Cracker Jack is actually arguing that selling land to Jews was wrong...."
You can't just say, for me, I'm arguing that. You must provide a quote, from me, saying selling land to Jews was wrong. Otherwise, you're just another fantasist, racist, and a liar. I've been here almost every day, and active. Your job should be easy. Provide a quote, from me, saying selling land to Jews was wrong.
I think it's easier to prove you're a fantasist, a racist, and a liar.
Richard said...
"How come your great concern for the oppressed does not extend to the North Koreans, Uyghurs, Syrians, Iranians, and all of the other people living under authoritarian governments?"
Rich, I've got a blog. It's called The Macho Response. You (and most Israel-Kill-Them-All types here) deliberately don't read it, because it's NOT what you're into: The Stupid Response. If you did read it, you'd know most things I'm interested in are documented, there.
So, if you had looked before speaking (instead of, I guess, expecting me to address "North Koreans, Uyghurs, Syrians, Iranians, and all of the other people living under authoritarian governments" EVERY TIME I SPEAK HERE) you would've discovered my first post on North Korea was all the way back in 2008. I'm not sure how many individual posts there are on it, but I had to refresh four times to see them all. I last posted about the Uyghurs in October. Do you see what I'm getting at?
You know nothing of my concerns and interests, but you have taken it upon yourself to let everyone know what a piece of shit I am. You're obviously foaming at the mouth, while claiming it is I who is so filled with hate that I cannot see what a despicable person I am. You twist my words and meaning to others, and then tell me - directly - what does and does not concern me in the least.
You, Sir, are an amazing example of what the oppressed of the world have to deal with.
Josephbleau said...
"I don’t know any aspect of this, I just thought that Al Jazzera might know why the Palestinians were not going to Egypt."
Fair enough. I apologize.
"The Egyptian PR guy said in the US news that they would not let the Palestinians in because they were afraid that they could not go back. That is the better dead than live in Egypt principle. Is that really Arab policy?"
No, it's an acknowledgement that what's happening, now, looks and sounds a lot like a replay of Israel's founding in 1948 - the catastrophe - when Palestinians were made to leave their homes and then weren't allowed back.
"Arabs seem to value the Palestinian people more as a tool to get at Israel than as friends and fellow humans. But I don’t know, maybe there is another reason."
Arabs are not a monolithic group. Nations have interests, not "friends." Notice: nobody is closer to Israel than us, but the Zionists still spy on us and Bibi brags about manipulating us. Nobody worries we're a tool of Israel, when they should.
"Perhaps an Arab news group could tell us their viewpoint, I have not found it in a you tube I have seen, That is why I asked."
It's hard to do better than Al Jazeera, but I'm trying to host a variety of direct sources.
"Certainly not just to make your eyes roll at me."
Duly noted.
"Cracker Jack is actually arguing that selling land to Jews was wrong...."
You can't just say, for me, I'm arguing that. You must provide a quote…
That’s how they got there, you slippery weasel. That’s what Zionism was.
Most people when they say they oppose something can say how they would stop or reverse it. Except for loudmouths who wave flags and recite slogans without standing behind a way of accomplishing anything.
But Zionism did achieve something - on the lands they purchased, and that’s why you hate it. It didn’t show itself to just be a poseur like you are. An empty vessel. And they’re not going to leave, even though you said they should and can’t stand behind that, either. Like Hamas, you run away and hide in tunnels when found out for how empty your attack is.
He was an atheist, as am I, and we both found things in Judaism to admire. Zionism is as made-up as the hooey "history" that Himmler invented for the Nazis.
Right. But you don’t say what those things supposedly are because you’re a phony who is either completely ignorant of Jewish history and religion or just wants to destroy it and what it’s about - except for the supposedly crucial task of making bagels. You go to synagogues and never figured out how many times the word “Zion” was used in the services or what it meant.
There is nothing in Judaism that endorses statelessness, a renunciation of self-determination (should they not run for office, either?), or being prevented from purchasing the lands upon which their state was declared, recognized by the UN and immediately attacked by 5 armies who wanted the middle-east to only have Arab-Muslim states.
Only in your poison white mind.
And here comes the racism that remains as the last desperate, dirty attack tactic you have left. But that’s ok. It’s just as empty as everything else you say.
Now go tell those Rastafarians, Black Hebrews, Falasha, and Indian Jews how racist they are for knowing what “Zion” means by definition and to them personally, while telling them that their religion doesn’t mean shit to you because you went to synagogues and STILL never heard the word mentioned or figured out what it meant.
I heard a conference broadcast lately with a panel that included John Brennan. He said the reason the US relationship with Israel is rock-solid has to do with the fact that their intelligence-gathering capabilities are extraordinary, better than even America’s - and more productive than the intelligence we can get even from the Five Eyes. (Bonus points if Crack even knows what that is). But he didn’t worry about them spying on us or manipulating us, and was emphatic about their value as an asset to America in that regard.
I think that’s probably because he knows more about both their capabilities and their interests than some Hamas-apologist phony loudmouth anti-Zionist calling himself “Crack Emcee,” whose intelligence-gathering capabilities extend to not even knowing the meaning of the word “Zion,” despite spending time at synagogue services. ;-)
Maybe Crack should be the next CIA director. He’d call NATO an alliance of white poison-minded devils and would probably schedule a flight to Tehran for joint anti-counter-terrorism coordination efforts. Possibly plan out an attack on some of our troops in the region while he’s at it. You know, because that’s what people who fight on behalf of “the oppressed of the world” do. ;-)
hpudding said...
"You can't just say, for me, I'm arguing that. You must provide a quote…"
That’s how they got there, you slippery weasel. That’s what Zionism was.
That's not a quote from me, you racist fantasist liar.
hpudding said...
"I heard a conference broadcast lately with a panel that included John Brennan."
CIA Director John Brennan and former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper were among the 51 former intelligence officials who signed the now-discredited letter that claimed Hunter Biden’s abandoned laptop had “all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation.”
How many times are you guys going to let Oct. 7 make fools of you? I'm 100% certain, you know John Brennan has discredited himself, and yet here you are, standing by John Brennan because of Oct. 7. You've adopted "Cancel Culture" tactics you hated - over Oct. 7. You're siding with Joe Biden now - over Oct. 7. You hated war when it was Ukraine, now you can't get enough blood - after Oct. 7. I could go on and on and on - YOU HAVE NO TRUE CONVICTIONS.
You're just internet trolls.
hpudding (to Crack): "But Zionism did achieve something - on the lands they purchased, and that’s why you hate it. It didn’t show itself to just be a poseur like you are. An empty vessel. And they’re not going to leave, even though you said they should and can’t stand behind that, either. Like Hamas, you run away and hide in tunnels when found out for how empty your attack is."
It is astonishing that no matter that the Jews have been present continuously in Judea/Samaria-Israel for 3000+ years and so much of the Zionist movement in the 1800's thru to 1917 was spent legally purchasing property and assets in Israel proper today from Ottoman Turks who ruled there for 400 years, that Crack STILL pretends all the Jews are interloping whities from 1948 on and have no business being there.
And dont you dare suggest any of those Dukes of Hazard whitey Jews aren't white...lest you destroy that particular fragile rhetorical house of cards!
Crack Emcee: "You're just internet trolls."
Tell us more, in your unique breathless fashion, about all that "recent" (LOL-13 years ago) natural gas discovery off Gaza (the entire eastern med actually) that those diabolical Jews want to steal from the peace-loving islamic-supremacist 7th century death-cultists!
Crack Emcee: "YOU HAVE NO TRUE CONVICTIONS."
Have you ever retracted your claim that slavery, murder and lying did not exist until whites invented them?
That seems like a solid place to begin any discussion with you about "convictions".
“We Need To DESTROY Gaza” – Fmr Israeli Ambassador To Italy
There are few people more wrong than those who put more faith into their convictions than into objective facts.
The facts are that you say Zionism is wrong and that Jews shouldn’t have declared a country in the Middle East, but can’t account for how that would have been stopped without keeping them purchasing those lands in the first place. It’s hard to complain about “stealing land” when for you and the Palestinians “stealing” = Jews purchasing it.
I’m glad to see how superior you think you are to John Brennan over the fact that he… made a mistake? Oh no! It must be nice to be so perfect, especially for an incel like yourself who can’t get over a cultist girlfriend from decades ago. Talk about bad judgment! But I’m sure all your other decisions are also flawless. All narcissists think they are.
Other than that, keep up the rage commenting, all caps and random shrieks of “racist!” It must all be very convincing… just not to anyone other than yourself. No one who goes that ballistic can possibly that confident in what he says. And in your case, the reason for that is clear.
Crack is about as cracked and unhinged as an Israeli bomb strike. Or a rampaging marauder from Gaza on an execution/mass rape spree from Gaza. Disproportionate indeed.
Have you ever retracted your claim that slavery, murder and lying did not exist until whites invented them?
That seems like a solid place to begin any discussion with you about "convictions"
I saw a video the other night about the Arabian-African slave trade, and some folks commented about how prevalent anti-black racism is in Arab society. It reminded me of a friend I knew in school who went to work in an Arab restaurant. He told me that the managers/owners kept referring to the black workers there as “ab’d.” He didn’t know what that meant.
“Slave,” is what ab’d means. عبد. Look it up.
Some people are mental slaves as much as they are in any other sense. I like how true liberation movements are inspired by Zion, from the Ethiopians to Bob Marley. Emancipating oneself from mental slavery is hard though when you’re an empty shell of a person who has nothing to live for than hating others - such as victims of the same people that truly hate YOU.
For people like this hatred is a form of slavery that provides them more meaning than they can ever provide themselves, and they’ll indulge all the Marxist nonsense about “oppression” to pretend to themselves that their tantrums are substantive. They will ignore the hatred that their fellow “victims” actually feel to them as well, just as strongly if not moreso.
Waaaah. I hate therefore I am. Marxist Descartes.
Crack is about as useful as a broken dildo.
hpudding: "I like how true liberation movements are inspired by Zion, from the Ethiopians to Bob Marley."
The Ethiopians in particlar have an amazing history. Never colonized with centuries old Jewish communities that Israel embraced and snuck out under the vengeful and muderous intentions of Crack's beloved islamists.
Bad news Crack: your Islamist pals couldn't stop the Ethiopian Hebrew brothers from making their way back to Israel (from time immemorial) and now there are over 150k of them there...and they have no intention of ever putting their necks under the swords of your 7th century death cultists.
Get used to it.
Whatever, Crack. So ban me from your blog. I actually do read it. I actually sent you money. I actually found you idiosyncratic enough to support your voice.
I actually do weigh my comments and try to see all sides of things. It's almost always an exercise in the least bad choice. But for someone who hates cults, why are you defending the ignorant and mesmerized leftist Israel haters on American college campuses?
Why is anyone talking to Crack? Doing to is a complete waste of electrons; we should extend the Cedarford Rule to him.
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