Said Cornel West, quoted in "Cornel West accuses Israel of ‘genocidal attack’ on Gaza" (NewsNation)(with video of interview with Chris Cuomo).
“We have to be morally consistent” about calling out war crimes, West said. “We can’t lose sight of the larger structural institutional realities in which people are being killed every day in the occupation beginning 1948. That’s like zeroing in on Nat Turner because he’s killing some white children and he’s wrong, but Black people were enslaved for 240 years.”
Cuomo weakly noted, “Palestinians have had a much better shot than Blacks in America have had,” and pointed to the "deals" that have been offered to Palestinians.
That fired up West:
“Look at the deals that the U.S. government offered our precious indigenous brothers and sisters — terrible deals, under the condition of U.S. dominance. Every deal Israel has ever offered Palestinians presupposes Israeli dominance. They’re not going to give up that dominance.”Googling, I see an article in Deseret News, published a day ago, "How Cornel West could steal pro-Palestine progressive voters from Biden."
If you go click that link right now, you'll see the article has been retitled:
"The philosopher-in-chief/Cornel West thinks the U.S. is in ‘spiritual decay.’ That’s why he’s running for president."
Why do you think the Deseret News would change the title to make it so much less threatening to Democrats? Maybe someone was ashamed of the effort at clickbait. It's not immediately obvious when you get to the article how West is going to be "stealing" these votes, but you can find it:
While West makes few waves in national polls — ranging from 1% to 5% in most — his candidacy, especially as of late, could prove a headache for the Biden campaign. In late summer, polls showed a West campaign pulling far more support from potential Biden voters than Trump ones, as expected.
But Biden’s support for Israel has made him vulnerable among Democratic voters who sympathize with Palestinians. Many of Biden’s big-money Arab American boosters felt betrayed and publicly jumped ship. One State Department official resigned. Biden’s approval rating is now at the lowest of his presidency, with the largest erosion coming from Democrats and young voters.
West stands positioned in the crevice, seemingly poised to capture support from disillusioned progressives. “I think it’s going to be one of the major issues of the election,” West said. “No one would have thought that six months ago, nine months ago.”
When Harvard students blamed Israel for the Oct. 7 Hamas attack, West said they should’ve included more nuance, but agreed that Israel and the U.S. were “primarily responsible.” When Israel retaliated for the attack, he delivered an impassioned speech accusing Israel of genocide. He’s repeatedly called for a cease-fire and criticized Biden for not doing the same....
१५० टिप्पण्या:
Cuomo weakly noted, “Palestinians have had a much better shot than Blacks in America have had,” and pointed to the "deals" that have been offered to Palestinians. That fired up West: “Look at the deals that the U.S. government offered our precious indigenous brothers and sisters
I see West is employing the Popehat formula of the arguing leftist:
Leftist asserts A
Con uses facts and logic to refute A
Leftist ignores that A has been refuted and asserts B
Con uses facts and logic to refute B
Leftist ignores that B has been refuted and asserts C
Con uses facts and logic to refute C
Leftist asserts A
It's always smart whites have all the stuff and oppress the dumb browns that they steal it from.
Bring it on. There are lots of disgusting closets in the Democrats big tent that need to be disinfected, especially the antisemites. If that means four more years of Trump, huzzah.
What a comedy act. Go for it, nitwits!
It is amazing the outsized influence this has on our foreign and domestic policy. It is ridiculous and stunning when you unpack it. 15 million Levantines with less than 6% of Global Domestic Product in an area half the size of Florida has captivated our attention, hypnotized our politicians, and taken over our discussions. There is a leader of a heavily engaged war torn nation 20 times its size and entirely on our payroll fighting a nuclear armed UN veto power country that has literally begged and threatened to travel to this hideous sand box just to get the limelight turned back in his direction.
We have shifted an entire global attention span in a matter of 50 days to focus on these warring semitic shepherd tribes who are shooting at each other with weapons almost exclusively paid for with money printed out of thin air on the good faith and credit generated from your income taxes. Let that sink in.
Does anybody else not want their fucking money back, or am I the only one?
'When Harvard students blamed Israel for the Oct. 7 Hamas attack, West said they should’ve included more nuance, but agreed that Israel and the U.S. were “primarily responsible.”'
Einstein said, for everything that happens in Palestine, first to blame the British for their double-cross of the Palestinians, then the Zionist terrorists for agreeing to it and defending it. THEN, I assume, we can blame the U.S. for backing it, because to do so is totally unAmerican.
Why are so many black leaders and activists so much more concerned about a few million Palestinian Arabs thousands of miles away than they are about the state of black Americans or even sub-Saharan Africans who are living and suffering in so much worse conditions than the Palestinian Arabs are? Why the fascination with Palestinian Arabs and the indifference to everyone else? Weird.
I would like to know the list of foreign nations, besides the US, that are leaning on Israel to pursue the Cease Fire. They are not Israel's friend, which is probably why Israel is listening to them - very carefully. I'm sure it took quite a bit of work to arrange such a cease fire in a way that is to their benefit, although I'm not sure they are there, yet.
"Why are so many black leaders and activists so much more concerned about a few million Palestinian Arabs thousands of miles away than they are about the state of black Americans or even sub-Saharan Africans who are living and suffering in so much worse conditions than the Palestinian Arabs are? Why the fascination with Palestinian Arabs and the indifference to everyone else? Weird."
Amazing, isn't it? It's almost like powerful forces want everyone in this country pulling - and paying - for everyone that's not and American.
Blacks, Whites, Latinos, and pink polka-dotted Americans are all universally united in their love for the Levant. We sing kumbaya as we send them cash while Americans get ground between the anvils of wage stagnation and inflation.
And the world doesn't even send a thank you note. How rude.
"Genocide"
Heh. First, one has to suspend all hint of doubt in order to give credence to Hamas-issued casualty numbers. But more importantly, if Israel truly had genocide in mind, they could have wiped out every Gazan by last Tuesday.
Palestinians commit unspeakable horrors and film them for the world to see. Their supporters cheer at the rape, murder, mutilation and torture. This is depravity on a world-wide scale.
As expected from Cornell West, and his wife Kanye.
Jeff said...
"Why are so many black leaders and activists so much more concerned about a few million Palestinian Arabs thousands of miles away than they are about the state of black Americans or even sub-Saharan Africans who are living and suffering in so much worse conditions than the Palestinian Arabs are? Why the fascination with Palestinian Arabs and the indifference to everyone else? Weird."
You remind me of trans activists, asking why we care so much that kids are now transitioning as a group? Here's a question: whenever serious concern for others occur, why are white people usually the outliers? Unless they have a scheme they're backing, like NATO or Zionists killing people, white people are usually the ones going "Why do you care about other people, or others who either look like you or share your circumstances?" It's like human decency is a foreign concept to them.
Louis CK thinks life itself is a foreign concept to them, compared to the rest of us.
BTW - I learned a new Hebrew word last night - Herem - it stands for Jewish Cancel Culture, so, yeah, they're nice,...
Howard said...
Bring it on. There are lots of disgusting closets in the Democrats big tent that need to be disinfected, especially the antisemites. If that means four more years of Trump, huzzah.
That’s an interesting take I had not considered Howard. The pro terrorist branch of the party expects to they are the life of the party. When the moment arrives are they swatted down like Sanders supporters?
Aggie said...
"I would like to know the list of foreign nations, besides the US, that are leaning on Israel to pursue the Cease Fire. They are not Israel's friend,..."
So no one can care deeply for Israel or the Jews and that's the reason they want them to stop killing kids by the thousands?
Y'all are making up some screwy ethics for yourselves now.
rhhardin said...It's always smart whites have all the stuff and oppress the dumb browns that they steal it from.
Not only did the US steal half of Mexico, it stole the half with paved roads.
rhhardin said...
"It's always smart whites have all the stuff and oppress the dumb browns that they steal it from."
You don't have to be smart to shoot a gun.
Perhaps a genocide of the sort West’s ancestors participated in would be better. Just sell the loser Palestinians off as slave to anyone willing to pay their freight.
Let's see: visible minority groups treated relatively well, lots of opportunity, falling short of taking over completely. U.S. blacks post WW II and the so-called Palestinians can contend for #1 and #2. Various groups in Western Europe in recent years: a mixed bag. Sikhs in India: now well represented in government and business, but terrorists demand an independent country.
Minorities in African countries, sometimes whites, China, Rohingya in Myanmar: yikes.
The intersectionality of the left may be breaking down.
genocide.. you keep using that word, i no think that word means what you think it means
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/HRV/palestine/population-growth-rate
there were less than a million "palestians" in 1950.. there's over 5 million now
The current population of Palestine in 2023 is 5,371,230, a 2.31% increase from 2022.
The population of Palestine in 2022 was 5,250,072, a 2.27% increase from 2021.
The population of Palestine in 2021 was 5,133,392, a 2.27% increase from 2020.
The population of Palestine in 2020 was 5,019,401, a 2.23% increase from 2019.
West said he was being denied tenure, after quitting his job once, because of racism.
He said he didn't want to be a second-class instructor.
He did not say that there shouldn't be a second class of exploited temps -- he just didn't want to be one of them.
Plus, there was nowhere in his application to include his awful hip-hop career and stints on The Matrix.
When Harvard refuses a famousblackscholar like Gates, you know he really is a fraud.
Why would anyone read the rantings of a genuine nut case like Cornel West? He is looking for a way to convince liberals to Vote Blue No Matter Who, but wild antisemitic ramblings ain't likely to get him past 4% of the liberal vote - just enough to topple his party's ambition in 2024 and certainly not enough to offset vote losses from independents and NeverTrumpers abandoning support for any Dem presidential candidate.
U.S. support for Israel's war efforts continues unchanged no matter who the President is, so these political machinations are clearly made-up stuff dropped into a polling question answered by a few thousand poll participants.
Hamas leaders, living the good life in Qatar, restarted a hot war against its own kind in UN-supported Gaza, knowing full well that Israel would likely finish it. Now Iran won't be sending troops and militant support groups like Huthis in Yemen, pro-Iranian groups in Iraq, pro-Iranian groups in Syria, and Hizballah in Lebanon have insufficient weaponry. The 75-year-old war continues to waste valuable resources.
West, Gates; Gates, West. Sorry for the conflation, it wasn't far off.
Does anyone really believe 7000 children have been killed? Really? I mean if that were the case, it should be pretty easy to give back 230 hostages so there can be a ceasefire.
Palestine is a welfare state.. with Nazi leaders.
The boo hoo left refuse to see reality.
Air your sickness out, crack! Show the world that loving heart.
I heard some commentator point out that since the end of WWII there have been eleven million casualties in the Islamic world due to internecine conflicts. I think the commentator pointed out that of those casualties only 0.03% were due to the Israeli/Palestinian conflift.....White supremacy. Only white people have sufficient agency and power to inflict heart rending tragedies. The other casualties are statistics. Congrats to the Jews for finally becoming white.....Not Michelle Goldberg though. She's still the heir of Anne Frank and has suffered unfathomed sorrows at the hands of Netanyahu.
I was completely ignorant of the Deseret News. The newspaper claims it is the oldest continuously operating publication in the American West, having first gone to press in 1850. With a digital circulation of more than 98,000, it is not a major press organ, yet, apparently, it does cast a wide net. Deseret is a "census-designated place" in Millard County, Utah. In other words, it's not even an incorporated village, but it has a media outlet reporting on Cornel West's presidential campaign. Odd, that... Are Mormons vacillating between West and Biden? If so, someone ought to point out that there's little to choose between Scylla and Charybdis. In answer to Althouse, I'd say yes, the change reflects a little chagrin over clickbait rhetoric. If you hail from Deseret, population 353, you might as well retain your dignity. Or, perhaps the editor was struck by the use of such a blatant oxymoron in the title. (BTW, deseret is a word invented by Joseph Smith. It means honeybee in English. Isn't that nice?)
Another odd thing is the pairing of Cornel West with Chris Cuomo, who still struggles with the perception that he can't handle things, and that he's not dumb like everybody says. Is the Chris Cuomo Show the best the philosopher-in-chief can do? NewsNation says West is the "third party" candidate. What party is that, the Don King Lookalike Party? Is there more than one "third party"?
gadfly said...
"wild antisemitic ramblings"
Mental note: once something happens to Zionists, EVERYTHING'S antisemitic.
Genocide in Gaza is just as stupid as insurrection on J6.
Changing the meaning of a words cuz it works both for the liberal media and the crazy liberals.
Crack Emcee said: “You don't have to be smart to shoot a gun.”
Are you saying that to the millions of blacks that wave their guns around on instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, TikTok, etc?
Or the millions that commit the majority of gun crimes in the US?
Birches said...
"Does anyone really believe 7000 children have been killed?"
Believe? Sure. I can believe God is a ham sandwich. The question is, can you prove otherwise?
"Really?"
100%.
"I mean if that were the case, it should be pretty easy to give back 230 hostages so there can be a ceasefire."
Only if you're weak in the knees. Like I've said, y'all don't know what it is to have convictions.
Far be it from me to get between blue and blue, but--
"Cornel West said "We’re living in a genocidal attack in real time, where nearly 7,000 children have been killed in less than 45 days..."
Hey, Cornel, that's "genocide"? Those clever Jooos, with all their weaponry, manage to kill only 7000, at a snail's pace, getting themselves killed in close combat? They're doing it wrong.
"people are being killed every day in the occupation beginning 1948"
Hey, Cornel, you mean when Arabs tried to wipe out all the Jooos and failed, the winner began an "occupation" of land left by "refugees" who had planned to take all of it? And pray tell, how did those Jooos occupy Gaza in 1948 when, let's check, oh yeah, that's right, Egypt was in charge there, and let's check again, oh yeah, Jordan occupied the West Bank?
"Every deal Israel has ever offered Palestinians presupposes Israeli dominance. They’re not going to give up that dominance.”
Gotta give you props for that one, bro. Staying alive, keeping your state = "dominance." Nice!
"seemingly poised to capture support from disillusioned progressives"
Great! Would it serve GOP interests to get a few prog Hamas opponents on board? Will any anti-antisemites overcome their distaste for us uncouth deplorables?
"It is amazing the outsized influence this has on our foreign and domestic policy. It is ridiculous and stunning when you unpack it. 15 million Levantines with less than 6% of Global Domestic Product in an area half the size of Florida has captivated our attention, hypnotized our politicians, and taken over our discussions. There is a leader of a heavily engaged war torn nation 20 times its size and entirely on our payroll fighting a nuclear armed UN veto power country that has literally begged and threatened to travel to this hideous sand box just to get the limelight turned back in his direction."
Space Mountain, any chance you could clarify who and what you are talking about it this screed? I gather "15 million Levantines" refers to Israel plus the Palestinians. "Less than 6%" of global GDP? If that's supposed to be Israel, the number should be less than 1%. An "area half the size of Florida" -- again, if it's Israel, the fraction is much smaller than half. More like 1/8. "There is a leader of a heavily engaged war torn nation 20 times its size . . . . " What is the war-torn nation, and what is the other nation 20 times its size? "Fighting a nuclear armed UN veto power country" -- Oh, you're now talking about talking about Ukraine and Zelenskyy? But what does that have to do with Israel and Gaza?
So what's your point, exactly? Is it just that America and the West shouldn't care so much what happens with or to Israel because it's small? Seems kind of simplistic. Should we not care about Vermont because it's small? Israel is an ally and the only outpost of democracy in the region. You don't think it would have a ripple effect on American interests if we withdrew our material support of Israel and allowed it to be overrun by radical Islamists? Or what are you proposing, exactly?
"Does anyone really believe 7000 children have been killed?"
Birches forgets that Cornel West is a philosopher, a special station in life where accusations of inaccuracy are forbidden and mendacity is a virtue.
There is a hieroglyphic record of an Egyptian slave expedition to Nubia that took place in 3000 BCE. The last slave in Egypt was officially freed in 1886. That's five thousand years. Our four hundred years of slavery in this country doesn't look so bad when you compare it to the African record. It's also a fact that a female slave in North America had more of a right to life than the less favored wives of African kings.....I wonder why West doesn't turn his fierce rhetoric and insights into an examination of why the Africans and their rulers were so absurdly tolerant of slavery and misogyny. Their record is a lot worse than ours.
Birches said...
"Does anyone really believe 7000 children have been killed? "
No. No one with intelligence anyway. It's just grist for the mill of antisemitism. Action/reaction. Hamas invades Israeli territory and murders many innocent civilians. Israel decides it has had enough and invades Palestinian Gaza with the intent of eliminating Hamas. The left is outraged that once again Israel viciously defends itself. "It's all Israels fault!"
Fuck off.
What Israel should do is place a bounty on the Hamas leadership in Qatar. Anybody anywhere in the world drops one of these morons ten million in gold. No questions asked.
stand w Isreal. Leftists, Mullahs, Hamas-Palistinian terrorists can suck it said...
"Palestine is a welfare state.. with Nazi leaders."
Israel gets $5 billion a years - from us - and slaughters kids so much Nazi doctors would smile.
"The boo hoo left refuse to see reality."
I bet most of you, who try to talk tough, have never even been in a fist fight.
Sad to make this observation - the accuracy of the claim of 7000 aside (or lack thereof) - but near every child, if not every one, is taught a genocidal hate of Jews and would be and have been used as terrorist actors. They may be children, but they are not innocent.
Could West secure tenure somewhere out of this?
I’m still amazed at how much evil people are willing to excuse for their pet causes.
Does anyone really believe 7000 children have been killed? Really?
Indeed. The obvious follow-up question that never seems to get asked is, where are the thousands of bodies?
Irresistible Crackbait. I'm steering clear of this one.
"Not only did the US steal half of Mexico, it stole the half with paved roads."
I wouldn't say "stole." Mexico ceded its claims to the lands north of the Rio Grande as a result of the treaty that ended the war in 1848. And the Mexicans who lived there became U.S. citizens. Don't you think that worked out relatively well for their descendants?
It's not immediately obvious why West's support will come from erstwhile Biden voters? Is this humor? The more lefty kooks on the ballot, the better!
"Every deal Israel has ever offered Palestinians presupposes Israeli dominance. They’re not going to give up that dominance.”
This is it in a nutshell. NO ONE ever gives up that dominance. That is not how the world works. Not now, not ever. Pretending otherwise is childish and stupid. Might may not make "right" in the perfect world people may dream about, but that world does not exist. In the world where we reside, might does create the reality on the ground that must be dealt with. So deal with it, or it will deal with you.
Rehajm: Not necessarily. The Bernie supporters are a much bigger slice than the antisemitic and wokester factions. Crushing Bernie and the Davos DNC embracing the lunatic fringe was the problem that resulted in Trump. Then, quadrupling down on constant Trump persecuting gave him more power and a more loyal bases.
If the Dems embraced Bernies compassionate populism and ignored Trump, he would have faded into oblivion.
Part of me thinks the DNC elite likes a powerful Trump because the only way to defeat him is for the powers that be to give up the controls.
I haven't much use for West's opinions regarding, well anything really, but I wish him all the best in his presidential run. I imagine there will be a fat payoff in his future when he drops out and throws his support behind Biden (or whoever is running). Perhaps a nice second home?
Recorded in Germany (!) a week after Oct. 7: Baklavas From Gaza - Comic Relief for Israel & Palestine
The only party in this war that is inarguably and continually pursuing genocide is the Palestinians. They have said so openly and make no effort to hide that goal. By contrast, the Israelis make no such goal and even accept peaceful Arabs living in their country. The projection of genocide onto the Israelis by pro-Palestinian supporters is absurd.
Muslim street cart vendor, 24, reveals Obama's Islamaphobic Middle East advisor has been stalking his NYC food cart and calling him a terrorist for TWO WEEKS
"How Cornel West could steal pro-Palestine progressive voters from Biden."
'Cornel Pop' is a bad dude!
When, if ever, will any verifiable system be used by the media to validate any of the casualty numbers provided by Hamas? Hopefully someone will take up this task for the war crime trials of any surviving Hamas membersafter their unconditional surrender.
Israel does not slaughter kids.
Crack - you are a fool.
Crack. Pro tip. When making up a number Do not use nice round numbers because your readers immediately know the number is bogus. And if attributed to a side getting their primitive asses kicked I would refrain from numbers and just say a lot or a whole lot.
Every single death since 10/7 is on the satanic scum of Hamas.
Israel has been less than forthright in its explanation of history. For example, the Oslo accords were doomed by Israel's political inability to commit to a negotiated two-state solution. Yet, West unwittingly exposes the ultimate problem: most Palestinian leaders do not want a two-state solution; they want Israel to be renamed Palestine governed by a majority Arab population. For rather obvious reasons Israel is reluctant to agree to its extinction and the consequential subjugation of its Jewish population.
"Only if you're weak in the knees. Like I've said, y'all don't know what it is to have convictions."
The people of Gaza had better hope that the Israelis prove weak in the knees. I hope they live up to their convictions myself. The result will be more international outrage and screams about "war crimes", but that is the result of anything short of self-immolation when it comes to Israel. Don't go weak in the knees this time Israel!
@Dogma and Pony Show
I think you answered a lot of your own questions hombre. I have made my position clear here multiple times before, and that put simply is I dislike both sides. No, I do not believe we should be materially supporting either in the substantial way that we do (and yes...it is substantial). I do not believe in Team America World Police anymore...I lived it personally and I and millions of my age cohort no longer do either.
You might consider Israel of friend and ally, but I am a bit more conscious of the unfriendly things they have done to their 'friends and allies' over the last 70 years, and I could go into a great level of detail if I didn't think that would be beating a dead horse or that the information I would post isn't publicly available for anyone who would choose to investigate it.
Israel is not the friend to the United States people think it is. It has not acted like a friend to the United States on numerous occasions. It's relationship with the United States and its people and its government are very much one-way. I am tired of people relentlessly defending Israel without appreciating its long track record of international misbehavior as an equal (emphasis on equal) member of the community of nations.
If you did some light research you might think what I think too.
Blogger Jeff said...
Why are so many black leaders and activists so much more concerned about a few million Palestinian Arabs thousands of miles away than they are about the state of black Americans or even sub-Saharan Africans who are living and suffering in so much worse conditions than the Palestinian Arabs are? Why the fascination with Palestinian Arabs and the indifference to everyone else? Weird.
11/22/23, 6:55 AM
——————————
Bari Weiss said it best in her address to the Federalist Society.
“ When antisemitism moves from the shameful fringe into the public square, it is not about Jews. It is never about Jews. It is about everyone else. It is about the surrounding society or the culture or the country. It is an early warning system—a sign that the society itself is breaking down. That it is dying.
It is a symptom of a much deeper crisis—one that explains how, in the span of a little over 20 years since Sept 11, educated people now respond to an act of savagery not with a defense of civilization, but with a defense of barbarism.”
West will never be allowed on the presidential ballot by the Democrats.
“Palestinians have had a much better shot than Blacks in America have had,”
Cuomo proving once again he is the dumb Cuomo brother.
Hey @Dogma and Pony Show, I'll even help. If you can dig into any one of the questions below with even minimal rigor, I will consider our banter to have been a success.
1. Why does every president – none of whom have been jews - go to Israel and touch the Western Wall wearing a Yarmulke?
2. Why does every major politician – of both parties until recently – speak at AIPAC, a foreign lobbying group that doesn’t register as one? Why did JFK attempt to get AIPAC’s predecessor, The American Zionist Council, to register as a foreign lobbying group at its formation in 1963, a goal derailed by his untimely death, and one that has never been revisited in over 60 years?
3. Why did we have no enemies in the Middle East until Israel became our friend and vice versa?
4. Why does Israel steadfastly refuse to supply troops for exo-Israeli commitments to the United Nations, It’s allies, or major coalition efforts not only in their region, but abroad?
5. Why did Israel recruit Egyptian Jews in a false flag operation to blow up American and British targets in Egypt in an attempt to frame the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood in 1954, an event known as the Lavon Affair? Why did Israel admit their role in 2005 by honoring the surviving Mossad agents who were involved with a certificate of appreciation?
6. Why is Israel the only nuclear-armed nation that is allowed by the international community to keep its nuclear status ambiguous?
7. Why was Israel allowed to violate their agreement with the US regarding their nuclear program, and to steal US intellectual property, classified information, and even nuclear materials (bridgewire detonators and uranium pitchblend) for weapon production in violation of the US Atomic Energy Act of 1946, a felony that got the Rosenbergs the death penalty? Why did the US have this agreement with Israel in the first place?
8. Why did Israel attack the US SIGINT vessel, USS Liberty in international waters in 1967 during the height of the 6 Day War? Why was that incident conveniently downgraded and forgotten by the media? Why has DC adamantly refused to declassify ALL the information related to that incident?
9. Why is the American-Israeli intelligence relationship only one way? More bluntly, why did Israel pro-actively reject participation in the 5-Eyes Alliance, despite their country’s population, leadership, and bureaucracy having an English literacy rate of almost 85%?
10. Why was American Jewish intelligence analyst Jonathan Pollard working as a double-agent for Israel, specifically the Anti-Defamation League (ADL)? Why did Israel deny their direct involvement all the way until 1998? Why did the ADL including people like Benjamin Netanyahu actively petition for Pollard’s early release? Why has Pollard been routinely and roundly applauded in Israel for his spying for the ADL and Israel? Also, why is the ADL not required to register as a foreign interest lobbying group?
11. Why do Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, the US State Dept, the DOD, Rand Corp., and Brookings support Israel’s West Bank Barrier but not the USA’s border wall with Mexico, in contravention of the 2003 UN Resolution (vote 144 to 4, 12 abstentions) condemning the barrier? Why was the United States and Israel among the only 4 votes against the resolution (the other two were Micronesia and Marshall Islands…LOL)?
There are so many more too. I could go on and on and on...
I heard a pundit remark that there have been eleven million Muslim casualties in the internecine war that the Muslims have waged among themselves and their neighbors since the end of WWII. Of those casualties, iirc, she said that 0.03% were the result of Israeli/Palestinian hostilities....There you have it. White Supremacy. You aren't really a victim or a heart rending tragedy unless you're killed by a white person. All those other deaths are just statistics. Only white people have sufficient agency and moral standing to inflict victimization or martyrdom on their opponents. And congratulations to the Jews for at long last becoming truly white.
Here's an argument that can be used both for and against the Jews.....We carried out a napalm bombing raid against Tokyo that caused 50,000 casualties. There are records of a Japanese general staff meeting after this raid. They didn't even mention the raid. Civilian casualties were not part of their calculus. They discussed how to continue the war....If it was a crime for the United States to inflict such casualties on a civilian population, how much more of a crime was it for the Japanese general staff to not take heed of such casualties and think about surrendering.....If as Hamas claims, Israel is genocidal and merciless, isn't that a compelling argument for not raping their women, murdering their babies, and kidnapping random civilians. I can't think of any kind of crimes more likely to trigger an overwhelming response than the ones Hamas inflicted. Does anyone in Gaza question the judgement of Hamas leadership?
Old and slow said...
"In the world where we reside, might does create the reality on the ground that must be dealt with. So deal with it, or it will deal with you."
Then why are you bitching about Oct.7? Whoever can get away with murder will - that's your idea of civilization.
If you get home invaded, let me know, so I can say "might makes right" and laugh at you.
Palestinians and their "media" lie -- with the complicity of the western media. Shame.
https://whiterosemagazine.com/jihadi-journalism/
“Einstein said,”
He also famously said that quantum mechanics was incorrect, before being proved MASSIVELY wrong.
So if this physicist didn’t even get everything in physics right, the idea that anyone should selectively take one thing he said about the Middle East to be Gospel, even when his later statements on it contradicted that, is pretty dumb. And he wasn’t even a politician or agronomist anyway, so who cares what he said? There are Palestinians who also opposed the course of national suicide you’ve encouraged them to take, so maybe they’re right and you’re wrong.
It’s like taking an unknown amateur rap artist’s opinion on nuclear fusion seriously. You sound like just another Hollywood celeb spouting off on things you want to feel important about, except with the celeb part.
You rely so extensively on your cherry-picker that it’s a wonder you’re able to clean yourself after toileting without injury.
Palestinians asked for it and are finding out. Finish it. Cornell west can pound sand. He is just interested in protecting his black gravy train.
planetgeo said...
"The only party in this war that is inarguably and continually pursuing genocide is the Palestinians. They have said so openly and make no effort to hide that goal."
That's not what Einstein said. I have posted Zionists saying the same heinous shit every day since Oct. 7.
"By contrast, the Israelis make no such goal and even accept peaceful Arabs living in their country."
They literally started off by killing Palestinians but, somehow, you call that love. And Bibi supported Hamas financially to stop a two state solution. I guess you missed that, too.
"The projection of genocide onto the Israelis by pro-Palestinian supporters is absurd."
Or you are, for being so biased you've ignored everything that proves you wrong.
Yet, West unwittingly exposes the ultimate problem: most Palestinian leaders do not want a two-state solution; they want Israel to be renamed Palestine governed by a majority Arab population. For rather obvious reasons Israel is reluctant to agree to its extinction and the consequential subjugation of its Jewish population.
Not only that, there are at least a couple million non-Jews there who want nothing to do with the Palestinian mad-scientist experiments in kleptocratic anarchy known as the Palestinian Authority or Hamas. Some of these populations - Druze and Bedouin - have served loyally with the IDF since the 1950s or earlier. More of the Christian populations do as well. What they all share in common with even the majority of Muslims though is that they generally want nothing to do with the kind of corrupt Palestinian or Hamas government that Macho Responder Crack wants to shove down their throats.
Anyway, is Cornell West still trotting out his talking point of “precious Palestinian lives?” I take it he wouldn’t have discouraged Union victory in the Civil War by protesting against the loss of “precious Confederate lives.”
As for Crack, he seems to have renounced the MACHO RESPONSE - at least for Israel. But no one buys it.
Mike Petrik said...
"Most Palestinian leaders do not want a two-state solution; they want Israel to be renamed Palestine governed by a majority Arab population."
If it's their land, and their home, why would they want anything else? The Zionists in the early 20th century were choosing between America, Uganda, Argentina and more - so Israel isn't important to them in the same way. Why would you expect the Palestinians to feel different? Would you?
Old and slow said...
Y'all ain't gonna stop until there's a hole in Bibi's head.
AMDG said...
“When antisemitism,..."
Y'all have gone from saying "racism means nothing anymore" to "I see antisemitism everywhere"
Quaestor, the Deseret News is based in Salt Lake City, not Deseret, Utah (which as a nearly lifelong Utah resident I was completely unaware of until you mentioned it). It's the more conservative of Utah's two biggest newspapers, the other being the Salt Lake Tribune. Deseret meaning honey bee was used as a metaphor for being industrious and productive, hence Utah became the Beehive State and beehives on the flags.
As for the headline change Althouse wondered about, I suspect the editors thought mentioning spiritual decay would be more attention-grabbing for their largely spiritually-minded readership. I doubt there was much thought to make things less threatening for Democrats. So, in answer to your question, "Are Mormons vacillating between West and Biden?" I'm going to say, "No".
Dude1394 said...
"Palestinians asked for it and are finding out. Finish it."
If this chest-beating backfires, I am going to LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH
“Deseret is a "census-designated place" in Millard County, Utah. In other words, it's not even an incorporated village, but it has a media outlet reporting on Cornel West's presidential campaign. Odd, that... Are Mormons vacillating between West and Biden? “
Deseret May now be a tiny census-designated place in UT, But it was the proposed name, 174 years ago (1849) of the proposed Mormon state that would cover all of UT, most of NV, a bit of CO, WY, OR and ID, and a bigger part of AZ and CA. It essentially, covered the Great Basin and Colorado River drainage. It was a pretty aggressive land grab, because they hadn’t yet settled much of it. President Tyler was interested - and suggested combining it with CA to maintain the number of Free States. It would have been massive, dwarfing Slave State Texas in size, and ultimately in population.
In any case, when I lived in SLC, Deseret seemed to be used to designate a larger Mormon state than just UT - the areas that they ultimately controlled - UT plus the I-15 corridor from Butte down to Las Vegas, I-70 to Grand Junction, and I-80 from maybe Rock Springs, WY to Reno. What some call Mormonland. The paper, by using that name, clearly doesn’t speak for the church, instead it seemingly purports to speak for the membership of the church.
Apologies to the members here of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (colloquially known as “Mormons” or “LDS”). The term “Mormon” was used here as a shorthand. And these are the impressions of gentiles (me and my partner) who have spent much time in their lives in this area (in her case, over 65 years).
West hasn't a clue how many children have died in Gaza and apparently lacks the critical thinking skills to notice the ongoing Hamas propaganda campaign. His use of "genocide" is ridiculous.
Tim McGuire's post at 6:46 sums up this "debate."
Any person with a brain can picture what will happen if Israel agrees to a "ceasefire", you know, like the "ceasefire" in effect on October 6th. Hamas leaders have already told us October 7th was only the beginning.
The "pro-Palestinian" display we are seeing is pro-Islamic terrorism, pure and simple. Islamists in the streets know that. It is an unwarranted kindness to think their panderers don't.
Mental note: once something happens to Zionists, EVERYTHING'S antisemitic.
No, just your insistence that they had no right to purchasing land* in the Middle East or defending it when attacked. All your immature activist cosplay basically comes down to that.
*The land they purchased was in addition to other Jewish communities that lived there continuously over centuries - a presence which MACHO RESPONSE man considers either colonial or wrong since they stopped calling themselves “Palestinian” after 1948.
Or probably just because they were Jewish.
hpudding said...
"So if this physicist didn’t even get everything in physics right,..."
That is EASILY the dumbest thing I've read today.
7,000 children. You would have to be very naive to believe that number, especially when it is being reported by a genocidal terrorist organization that thinks that government services are a nuisance and mainly a way to embezzle money for more rockets.
It is rather amazing to see supposedly intelligent people who believe deeply in civil rights supporting the closest thing we have to the Nazis at the moment. Do remember that the Nazis thought they were the victims.
West is one of the original race grifters, he just isn't as good at it as Jackson or Sharpton so he's not as rich.
But he parlayed his mediocre IQ into positions at prestigious universities by playing to white guilt.
Good for him. Everybody's got to eat...
'Einstein said...'
Honestly, nobody gives a fuck what Einstein thought about Israel.
It's like asking me about quantum physics...
hpudding said...
"No, just your insistence that they had no right to purchasing land* in the Middle East or defending it when attacked. All your immature activist cosplay basically comes down to that."
You keep putting words in my mouth I never said, though - since you brought it up - did those Zionists tell the sellers they were literally planning on taking over and building a Jewish state when they bought it? And how many of those sales were coerced or the result of more British bullshit?
"Between 1922 and 1935,...Zionists bought land from absentee landlords.
Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan, Jews were allocated 55 percent of the land, encompassing many of the main cities with Palestinian Arab majorities and the important coastline from Haifa to Jaffa.
The plan would deprive the Palestinian state of key agricultural lands and seaports, which led the Palestinians to reject the proposal.
Shortly after the issuance of UN Resolution 181 that called for partition, war broke out between Palestinian Arabs and Zionist armed groups, who, unlike the Palestinians, had gained extensive training and arms from fighting alongside Britain in World War II"
"*The land they purchased was in addition to other Jewish communities that lived there continuously over centuries - a presence which MACHO RESPONSE man considers either colonial or wrong since they stopped calling themselves “Palestinian” after 1948."
You mischaracterize everything. And make hot clear that if that if that goers back to being "Palestinian" you won't care because you're so egalitarian about taking shit that's not yours and renaming it.
"Or probably just because they were Jewish."
Riiiight.
The Crack Emcee said"
"... so Israel isn't important to them in the same way."
You got that right. Way MORE important. You do understand it was their homeland for millennia until the Romans exiled them. Since that diaspora, Jews have always prayed for a return to the promised land and never stopped facing Jerusalem for key prayers. Though there are over 20 Arab states, the region the Romans, Ottomans, and Brits called Palestine never ever was one of them.
Joe Smith said...
"Honestly, nobody gives a fuck what Einstein thought about Israel."
You moron: they literally wanted him to be the president.
I have reached a point of disgust towards the comments by The Crack Emcee. He's reminding me of the Chuck days. I could spend my time correcting his obvious errors and dismissing his historical inaccuracies and his obsession with archaic Orthodox practices, but why bother? He's not interested in correcting his thinking. So let him have a diseased mind. Likewise RideSpaceMountain's screed -- so many false claims, why, why, why, as if everything that Israel has ever done has to be examined under a microscope when all our other allies have acted in their self interest from time to time and are still our allies. BTW, Trump was the only sitting President who visited the Wall. Explain that one.
Our beloved brother Dr. West, an educated man, is the most disingenuous when using the word "genocide" because he and all of us know that Israel is not trying to wipe out the Arab race or the Muslim religion. Using the word genocide is a manipulative tool to slander Israel and deflect our acknowledgement of Hamas's most egregious war crimes, of embedding itself in civilian populations, in and under hospitals and schools, etc. They are treating all the civilians of Gaza as hostages and that is a hideous crime. Hamas shoot rockets from schools, from hospitals, from apartments, from children's day care centers; for instance, I've seen photos of rocket launchers in rooms decorated with cartoon characters. What kind of an army does that?? An immoral army. That's what we should be condemning, but Hamas gets a pass because of the constant bogus accusation of "genocide." It's impossible to avoid the massive civilian casualities thanks to Hamas's rules of engagement.
Static Ping said...
"7,000 children. You would have to be very naive to believe that number"
When Zionists have been bombing a strip of land, only five miles wide, every day since Oct. 7 - with nowhere to escape? You're right: who could believe such a thing about such wonderful people who are always "shitting on you to your face"? Oh yeah: the woman who's job it is to know and tell us - who you don't respect, of course, because she's not saying what YOU want to believe.
hpudding: "So if this physicist didn’t even get everything in physics right,..."
Crack: "That is EASILY the dumbest thing I've read today."
Crack, you've already established beyond all doubt your historical ignorance of Middle East history and then combined it passionately with some warped racial categorizations and assignments that you believe relevant but, of course, aren't. Do you really intend to extend you Ignorance Exposure Tour 2023 to physics as well?
LOL
This should be amusing.
Mike Petrik said...
"You got that right. Way MORE important."
That's why the U.S., Uganda, Argentina, Russia, Japan, Madagascar, and more were also contenders, right? Because that specific land meant so much more to them?
Meanwhile, the Palestinians weren't scheming on anybody,....
Joe Smith said...
'Einstein said...'
Honestly, nobody gives a fuck what Einstein thought about Israel.
It's like asking me about quantum physics...
No, asking you about quantum physics would be HILARIOUS.
Them Palestrinians be-needs them some repacarations!
You would have to be very naive to believe that number, especially when it is being reported by a genocidal terrorist organization that thinks that government services are a nuisance and mainly a way to embezzle money for more rockets.
50 shades of a Nobel Peace prize recipient.
The perfect discernment of quantity and attribution are suspect. On the other hand, we know what the elite choice is to end separation and relieve "burdens"... uh, burdens, under cover of empathetic handmade tales. It's do or DEI and they want both Israelis and people in the territories to take a knee.
"You do understand it was their homeland for millennia until the Romans exiled them."
Um. No, Crack. I don't think you have that quite right. That "By the Rivers of Babylon" stuff is in the Old Testament. BC. I confess, I'm not sure what happened to the population of Israel between 10 AD and 1010 AD, but I don't think it was Roman exile. It's been a few decades since I read Michener's "The Source", but as I recall, there were some Muzzies involved. The Muzzies started out in ShitHolia, and swept east to Pakistan, and west to Algeria. Things didn't work out so well for the people in the way.
hpudding: "*The land they purchased was in addition to other Jewish communities that lived there continuously over centuries - a presence which MACHO RESPONSE man considers either colonial or wrong since they stopped calling themselves “Palestinian” after 1948."
Just 4 weeks ago or so Crack had no idea who the Ottoman Turks were, he had no idea Jews inhabited Judea and Samaria for 3000+ years, he had no idea anyone could purchase Middle East land and that Jews had done so, he had no idea who the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was, ... and the list goes on and on and on.
What Crack did internalize, incorrectly, is that all those horrible jooooos are whities just like the ones that owe Crack reparations.
That alone represents the sum total of the "analysis" and "research" Crack has performed to arrive at his position.
Crack still cant come to grips with the fact the ONLY ethnic cleansing in the last 80 years in the Arab world occurred when ALL of the Arab nations drove out 850,000 Jews from their homes in those Arab nations between 1947 and 1960, with the vast majority migrating to Israel.
West hasn't a clue how many children have died in Gaza and apparently lacks the critical thinking skills to notice the ongoing Hamas propaganda campaign. His use of "genocide" is ridiculous.
Tim McGuire's post at 6:46 sums up this "debate."
Any person with a brain can picture what will happen if Israel agrees to a "ceasefire", you know, like the "ceasefire" in effect on October 6th. Hamas leaders have already told us October 7th was only the beginning.
The "pro-Palestinian" display we are seeing is pro-Islamic terrorism, pure and simple. Islamists in the streets know that. It is an unwarranted kindness to think their panderers don't.
"So if this physicist didn’t even get everything in physics right,..."
That is EASILY the dumbest thing I've read today.
At the expense of asking a likely high-school dropout how much physics he knows, I’m curious how much quantum mechanics was covered in Crack’s GED exam prep and how it is somehow not true (because Einstein said it wasn’t).
If you’re going to play the appeal to authority game, then pick someone who knew what they were talking about. Or if you’re really playing the appeal to ethnicity game - which sounds more likely, then go pick apart Palestinian activist Mosab Hassan Youssef’s arguments that directly address your weak phony bravado-filled comments.
You’re about as macho as Randy Savage. Why not dress up in tights and do WWE cosplay too while you’re at it?
@RideSpaceMountain: Despite your patronizing attitude, it's clear you don't understand the current issues.
The question raised by October 7th is: Does Israel have a right to defend itself from terrorist attacks and, if so, to what extent?
As usual, there are many people trying to muddy the water with other issues that existed before the massacre and will continue to exist after the current conflagration has died down. The most important of those relate to Islamic jihad in Israel and the world.
As for Israel's relationship with the US, Israel relates to the US and the world as any country whose existence is at stake might, except for her foolish sensitivity to world mediaswine.
Hope that helps.
Ari Shaffir is more honest about Zionists than supporters of Zionism.
Israeli History Teacher Arrested & Jailed for Facebook Posts Opposing Killing of Palestinians
did those Zionists tell the sellers they were literally planning on taking over and building a Jewish state when they bought it?
If a bunch of Latinos or Blacks became a demographic majority in an area of California would you also object to them running the city council? Or just if Jews did that?
Are you going to dismantle the US federal government in order to replace it with one decided by the former owners of “Native American Lands?” Whatever that means.
"Between 1922 and 1935,...Zionists bought land from absentee landlords.
I think someone doesn’t understand the concept of land ownership. If your landlord doesn’t live in the building you rent from him, does it become yours and not the person’s he sells it to? Will you enact violent vengeance upon him if he does?
Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan, Jews were allocated 55 percent of the land, encompassing many of the main cities with Palestinian Arab majorities and the important coastline from Haifa to Jaffa.
They were allocated mostly desert. And gave key coastal cities from Gaza to Ashkelon to the Arabs.
The plan would deprive the Palestinian state of key agricultural lands and seaports, which led the Palestinians to reject the proposal.
Right. So you feel that if the UN decides something you don’t like then you should start a war over it. Sounds less MACHO and more WHINY.
Shortly after the issuance of UN Resolution 181 that called for partition, war broke out between Palestinian Arabs and Zionist armed groups, who, unlike the Palestinians, had gained extensive training and arms from fighting alongside Britain in World War II"
Jews fought alongside the British? Oh yeah that’s right - they did ally with them on the things that mattered, like not losing WWII to the Nazis who were supported by Palestinian leader Grand Mufti Haj Amin al Husseini. Guess you’ll blame that on the (Zionist) JEWS also!
Not only did the Jews have the support of Britain and the UN, but the King of Jordan who knew that they would be a hell of a lot easier to work with than the Nazi-supporting Grand Mufti and the Palestinians he represented. He was proven right in September 1970 when they tried to overthrow his kingdom. And Lebanon also learned the same lesson when the PLO ruined the country a decade later.
Honestly it sounds like you hate Jews just for not being stupid and actually having the decency to make the most of every opportunity they were given for a better life.
Gaza in Ruins: Satellite Imagery Researchers Say Israel Has Destroyed or Damaged 56,000 Buildings
How Israelis Live So Easily With Occupation - Gideon Levy
Even Jews say it: Zionists are a bunch of racists, like many here.
'Y'all have gone from saying "racism means nothing anymore" to "I see antisemitism everywhere"'
Racism has several meanings. Currently, it is a leftist device used to convince some African Americans that past injustices validate current antisocial behavior and thinking. So it does mean something.
Antisemitism is hostility and/or prejudice against Jews. We are seeing it demonstrated "everywhere" now sometimes masquerading as anti-Zionism to the delight of Hamas and other Islamist jihadis.
"Netanyahu is like the man who pretends to be negotiating the division of a pizza, while he is eating it."
"Then why are you bitching about Oct.7? Whoever can get away with murder will - that's your idea of civilization."
I'm not bitching about it. I'm pointing out that it needs to be remedied. The norms and "laws" that exist between countries and whatever you might call Hamas, exist only insofar as they are observed by both parties. Hamas decided that the norms as they existed at that time did not apply to them. Fair enough. Israel should respond appropriately.
Within a society governed by laws, there is at least a tacit agreement that the power of force is restricted to the state. I thought you were just an asshole, now I see that it really is just stupidity. I'm sorry, I should have given you the benefit of the doubt sooner.
RideSpaceMountain
I enjoy your comments for the most part, and even agree with your position on disliking both sides. But in a clash between civilization (with all its faults) and savagery, I think you must pick the side of civilization. You may not "like" either, but one is evil, and the other is not. Which side prevails matters, even to us so very far away. It also matters from a moral perspective.
@Hombre
Totally disagree with your take that Israel's actions and its relationship with the USA over the last 70 years has no bearing on current events being witnessed right now. That is one of the dumbest anti-historical takes I've seen since this broke wide open a month and a half ago. Talk about not understanding the current issues.
Israel has a right to survive. It has a right to exist. It has a right to defend itself. It has a right to do those things with its resources, its people, its money, its economy, and its military...did you know 5 US service members have already died in connection with this conflict ( https://abc7chicago.com/5-us-special-ops-troops-killed-in-helicopter-crash-after-training-/14048594/)?
If you want to pay for this feel free to cut out the middle man and send additional money to the Israeli Consulate in DC. The rest of us who wish to think freely about these issues will continue to decry our national involvement in yet another Middle Eastern gang war.
@ Space Mountain: You state that you dislike both sides, Israel and the Palestinians. I gather from this, and your slate of questions/contentions, that your antipathy toward Israel is such that you don't care one way or the other if the Palestinians actually destroy Israel and establish an Islamist state "from the river to the sea."
However, would you really prefer to live in a world without Israel? Would you not agree that Israel's society and culture are more in tune with American values and traditions than those of the radical Islamic state that would succeed Israel? Would Palestine be the kind of place that you'd want your children and grandchildren to visit? Whatever you think of the Israeli government's actions over the years, do you really think the underlying nation is so completely worthless that you'd willingly hand it over to the Palestinians?
Space Mountain I took a peek at your challenge, starting naturally with number one.
1. Why does every president – none of whom have been jews - go to Israel and touch the Western Wall wearing a Yarmulke?
According to the State Department every President since Nixon has indeed visited Israel. But only two are listed as visiting the Western Wall, and only Donald Trump wore a yarmulke. I lost interest in your challenge after that sorry start.
2 was just two complicated and appears to be just an excuse to work the word Zionist into your discussion. Let's try again:
3. Why did we have no enemies in the Middle East until Israel became our friend and vice versa?
We don't officially have "enemies" in the Middle East and North Africa anow either. Most of the countries that existed there during WW2 were officially "neutral" although several French colonies were recruited to fight for Vichy. You may have seen Casablanca and noticed the tension in the air. Even after Jordan and Syria and Lebanon and Egypt declared war on Israel when it was recognized as an independent state after WW2 those countries did not declare us an enemy. Only Iran after the fall of the Shah has declared the USA the "great Satan" and declared a desire to destroy us. But of course our current president is sending them more money than we send to Israel. I dislike all foreign aid but supporting free democracies at least is defensible given the charter of our State Department.
What does all that have to do with Israel?
I'm sorry, I should have given you the benefit of the doubt sooner.
"I should have withdrawn from you the benefit of the doubt sooner," seems more correct, given the context.
"West stands positioned in the crevice, seemingly poised to capture support from disillusioned progressives."
Disillusioned progressives + Cornell West. A match made in heaven.
Is this a Crack Emcee subreddit?
Old and slow said...
"Then why are you bitching about Oct.7? Whoever can get away with murder will - that's your idea of civilization."
I'm not bitching about it. I'm pointing out that it needs to be remedied.
Good. Then let's look forward to somebody putting a bullet in Netanyahu's head, so you can be might-makes-right happy.
Then everything will be remedied like a mothafucka.
So now its 7,000 children?
Judging by past Arab lies about the number of dead, and classifying 14-18 year olds with automatic rifles as children, the true number of dead children in Gaza is in the low hundreds. And every single one of them is dead because the modern Arab way of war is to hide behind civilians and cry when the other side doesn't allow such barbaric behavior to be used as a cheat code.
Casting dissenters as being incapable of free thought is a classic sign of having no argument.
Space Mountain,
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"According to the State Department every President since Nixon has indeed visited Israel. But only two are listed as visiting the Western Wall, and only Donald Trump wore a yarmulke. I lost interest in your challenge after that sorry start."
A mistake or two out of everything you said - mostly over who wore a hat - and Mike's done with you. Seriously: Does that sound like an intelligent person to you? A thinker? A serious person?
It sounds like a bullshit narcissist, wasting everyone's time, to me.
I loved this, said so blithely:
"Only Iran after the fall of the Shah has declared the USA the "great Satan" and declared a desire to destroy us."
For installing a brutal bullshit government against the people's will - because it only served us - yeah, that little thing.
Y'all love evil.
@Old and slow
I always side with civilization. It might not sound like it, but from a strictly military and social position, I side with Israel in this situation. If I was Israeli or an Israeli soldier, I'd want revenge, no doubt. And if I was an Israeli or an Israeli soldier, I would want the personal pride and the national glory of being able to do that independently like a big boy who wears big boy pants, instead of needing the USA and the EU to consistently bail me and my country out of jams.
My comments are intended to bring to light how Israel has a history of manipulating the United States and others, and not just because it needs to. There's a lot of things Israel has done specifically because they want to involve the USA and its people in their affairs, and wishes to do those things without the informed consent of its people or its government.
"Whatever you think of the Israeli government's actions over the years, do you really think the underlying nation is so completely worthless that you'd willingly hand it over to the Palestinians?"
Where did I say that? How does not supporting further integration of this country in yet further Middle Eastern dispute over which son of Abraham gets to inherit the Earth handing over the nation of Israel to the Palestinians, as if that were even possible?
Stop extrapolating my clearly delineated positions into some kind of death wish for Israel. I have said that nowhere.
"Even Jews say it: Zionists are a bunch of racists, like many here."
Crack, get with the program. There is nothing wrong with being "racist". I suppose that being "a racist" might be problematic. I mean, if your entire cognitive structure is built around race, to the point that it is the chief organizing principle of your worldview, you may be missing some important pieces of the puzzle. But you could do a lot worse. Race is a very important determinant of behavior. The vast majority of white Americans who claim they are not racist manage nonetheless to arrange their affairs so that they do not run into large groups of feral blacks. Those who don't often wind up dead. And what is your perpetual call for "reparations", if not a demand that one or more levels of government should carry out programs which harm some and help others, based upon a racial criterion? You're a racist, Crack. Get used to it. Own it, Dude, I do.
Cherry-pickin’ crack… in search of self-haters to confirm his willful bias.
"3. Why did we have no enemies in the Middle East until Israel became our friend and vice versa?"
From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli...
Christopher Hitchens
Jefferson Versus the Muslim Pirates
America’s first confrontation with the Islamic world helped forge a new nation’s character.
/ From the Magazine / Public Safety
Spring 2007
....My quest sent me to some less obvious secondary sources, in particular to Linda Colley’s excellent book Captives, which shows the reaction of the English and American publics to a slave trade of which they were victims rather than perpetrators. How many know that perhaps 1.5 million Europeans and Americans were enslaved in Islamic North Africa between 1530 and 1780? We dimly recall that Miguel de Cervantes was briefly in the galleys. But what of the people of the town of Baltimore in Ireland, all carried off by “corsair” raiders in a single night?
Some of this activity was hostage trading and ransom farming rather than the more labor-intensive horror of the Atlantic trade and the Middle Passage, but it exerted a huge effect on the imagination of the time—and probably on no one more than on Thomas Jefferson. Peering at the paragraph denouncing the American slave trade in his original draft of the Declaration of Independence, later excised, I noticed for the first time that it sarcastically condemned “the Christian King of Great Britain” for engaging in “this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers.” The allusion to Barbary practice seemed inescapable.
One immediate effect of the American Revolution, however, was to strengthen the hand of those very same North African potentates: roughly speaking, the Maghrebian provinces of the Ottoman Empire that conform to today’s Algeria, Libya, Morocco, and Tunisia. Deprived of Royal Navy protection, American shipping became even more subject than before to the depredations of those who controlled the Strait of Gibraltar. The infant United States had therefore to decide not just upon a question of national honor but upon whether it would stand or fall by free navigation of the seas.
One of the historians of the Barbary conflict, Frank Lambert, argues that the imperative of free trade drove America much more than did any quarrel with Islam or “tyranny,” let alone “terrorism.” He resists any comparison with today’s tormenting confrontations. “The Barbary Wars were primarily about trade, not theology,” he writes. “Rather than being holy wars, they were an extension of America’s War of Independence.”
Let us not call this view reductionist. Jefferson would perhaps have been just as eager to send a squadron to put down any Christian piracy that was restraining commerce. But one cannot get around what Jefferson heard when he went with John Adams to wait upon Tripoli’s ambassador to London in March 1785. When they inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers, America’s two foremost envoys were informed that “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
Ride...: "That is one of the dumbest anti-historical takes I've seen since this broke wide Open a month and a half ago. Talk about not understanding the current issues."
Ah. So aid to Israel is on the table now but not before - you know, "current." How astute of you to notice.
Recent Hamas terrorism and dead people are small potatoes next to your bitching about taxes. Got it!
Crack: "Meanwhile, the Palestinians weren't scheming on anybody,...."
LOL
The ENTIRE Arab world understands perfectly well what the recently minted "Palestinians" are all about...which is why the smart Arabs keep the recently minted "palestinians" at a distant arms length.
Attempted govt coups in Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt driven by the recently minted "palestinians" is all the proof one needs for what this 7th century death cult is all about.
Hey Crack, whats up with the recently minted "palestinians" leading attempted coups against Arab governments? Are those Arab governments "Zionists" too?
@Crack
Yeah dude don't involve me in your one man crusade. Our positions are not similar. I care even less about the plight of the Palestinians - so much of which is of their own making - than I do the international subterfuge and ethnocentricity of the Israelis.
These sand people are exhausting. Everyone is exhausted with this neverending overpriced shit sandwich paid for with this country's 210th maxxed out credit card we are forced to nibble on for the umpteenth time.
I hate the Middle East and its people so fucking much its unreal. Not worth a single drop of blood. Not one red cent. They can cut off every head and pour light sweet crude down every open esophagus till kingdom come for all I care.
Can't accuse black folks with stealing, can we?
'No, asking you about quantum physics would be HILARIOUS.'
Exactly! You make my fucking point.
I thought you were smarter...oh well...
'Racism has several meanings.'
I tan up really well in the summer.
I'm darker than most of the guys who do my yard work.
So by lefty rules I cannot be racist...
'You moron: they literally wanted him to be the president.'
And I want to be an astronaut. I don't give a fuck what Einstein has to say about politics.
As to 'moron,' I retired in my early 50s with no debt and multiple millions in the bank (no inheritance, thank you very much).
Good try though...marinate in your victimhood.
I'm glad Prof West is attacking Israel for their Genocide, which WE are paying for with our tax dollars.
Of course being Prof west, he then has to undermine that good deed by praising terrorists like Nat Turner (no doubt he would praise John Brown too). Hamas doesn't win any points from me by killing old people and children. And no, their killing of those Israeli kids wasn't justified because of 1948. And neither was Nat Turner justified because of slavery. If Turner and his band had tried to escape to the North, and been pursued, they'd been perfectly within their rights to kill their pursuers. But Turner wasn't doing that. He was just butchering white families.
BTW, How many people know that the vast majority of Israeli's killed on Oct 7th, were military personal or settler-Army reservists. And Israeli women are reservists too, they serve in the military.
For West, the oppressed can do no wrong since the oppressor holds all the power and privilege. The oppressed are like children who cannot be morally responsible for their actions. The only necessary action is for the oppressors to show remorse, to dismantle immoral structures, and to give away their power. For West and his cohort, this is the true moral worldview, and to them it makes sense, but not to anyone outside it.
The question is, is Cornel West a liar, or a moron?
Because you have to be one or the other to pretend that Hamas's claims about ANYTHING in Gaza are complete garbage.
How many Japanese kids were killed in Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Tokyo?
How many German kids were killed in Dresden? How about any other German city during WWII?
And that's with militaries that did NOT try to hide behind women and kids.
We'll know the Palestinians are tired of their kids dying when they start killing Hamas troops for hiding behind them. until then?
if they dont' care, I can't see why I should.
This is just more left wing projection, The side they support actually does want to commit genocide, so they falsely accuse the other side of it
As of 3:24 PM Crack has made 23% of the posts (28 of 123 posts). No person could make this many posts on a topic unless he was so consumed with hate that he is unable to function in a rational matter.
At this point I expect Crack to travel to NYC, walk up behind a Hasidic Jew, and sucker punch the unwary Jew right in one of his sidecurls. How dare the Jooo walk unmolested down a sidewalk? That disses Crack who follows James Baldwin's essay as his Torah, I mean Bible: Fifty-Six years ago -- “Negroes Are Anti-Semitic Because They’re Anti-White”. Criticizing Israel is Crack's way to sneak in the discussion his racist views, most of which are out front in his comments. Hey, Crack, why don't you taking your anti-white diatribes over to Howard Beach, which was 1.8% black in the last census? Oh, that's right: sucker punch an Italian-American man walking along Cross Bay Blvd and you won't make it out alive. JUST EXACTLY LIKE a white guy "dissing" a black man in southeast Queens. Haters are haters; some are cowards and all are to be despised.
Well, _that_ explains it.
MarcusB. THEOLDMAN
Jupiter said...
"Race is a very important determinant of behavior."
You don't travel much, do you"?
"The vast majority of white Americans who claim they are not racist manage nonetheless to arrange their affairs so that they do not run into large groups of feral blacks."
The vast majority of black Americans, too.
"Those who don't often wind up dead."
Man, you guys have bats in your belfry's.
"And what is your perpetual call for "reparations", if not a demand that one or more levels of government should carry out programs which harm some and help others, based upon a racial criterion?"
Tell me how even one American was harmed when the Japanese got reparations for WWII internments.
"You're a racist, Crack. Get used to it. Own it, Dude, I do."
Then YOU'RE a racist - and that's clear. I'm a racist the way Micheal Che and Colin Jost are racists: with the awareness it's all a fucking joke. And totally cringe because I'm not just damned to live with it but to usually be on its receiving end.
Of course, your racist ass wouldn't know nothing about that, steering clear of "large groups of feral blacks" as you do.
Drago,
Christopher Hitchens also said "Zionism is a waste of Judaism."
RideSpaceMountain said...
"I hate the Middle East and its people so fucking much its unreal."
Believe it or not, that's how I felt before Oct 7, but, as I've said, those paragliding kids in flip-flops said to pay attention - and took hostages - so what do you do? Focus on whether or not cum-bucket Taylor Swift will be writing dismissive songs, with a lot of football analogies, next year? Or take another peak at Zionism and REALLY get disgusted?
I went with Zionism,...
TaeJohnDo said...
"Can't accuse black folks with stealing, can we?"
Don't accuse TaeJohnDo with English, do you?
rcocean said...
"Of course being Prof west, he then has to undermine that good deed by praising terrorists like Nat Turner (no doubt he would praise John Brown too)."
You do realize, when Union soldiers sang as they defeated slavery - and whenever we sing "Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord,...HIS truth is marching on" - it's in tribute to white folks-and-baby-killing terrorist John Brown, don't you?
I mean, honestly - people have been asking since Oct 7 - what do you expect people, being trapped in Hell, to do?
charis said...
"For West, the oppressed can do no wrong since the oppressor holds all the power and privilege."
I can't speak for West, but I don't think that's so. I definitely think he sees the power differential as being so extreme it can mitigate certain concerns, but - being so close to the people likely to act - there's no rose colored glasses to hide the blood on anyone's hands.
Yes, Hamas did heinous and terrible things - to a threatening people in a nuclear power -so, proportionally, it wasn't shit. But it's all they got. And people go with what they got. And you can't completely blame them. History - including American history - records, that a people, with even an iota of a desire to be free, would do the same. I mean, EXACTLY the same. They didn't make their cage. They're making a way out. And paragliders?
That got my attention, anyway.
Greg the Class Traitor said...
"The question is, is Cornel West a liar, or a moron?
Because you have to be one or the other to pretend that Hamas's claims about ANYTHING in Gaza are complete garbage."
Can you explain how Bibi was basically employing those dishonest crazy people, if they're the people you say? How was he negotiating with them - to do his bidding - for years? Please, explain. If you can. And then deal with this question:
What part of "Bibi's playin' you" and/or "you're playin' yourself" do you not understand?:
Richard said...
"As of 3:24 PM Crack has made 23% of the posts (28 of 123 posts). No person could make this many posts on a topic unless he was so consumed with hate that he is unable to function in a rational matter."
Nothing reductionist about that. As we've heard many times before, "consumed with hate" is the ONLY possibility, People. (How many psychics have decided it's their duty to inform y'all of my state of mind, today? It's amazing,...) Slavery must've been more incomprehensible than even I can imagine, with you geniuses running around, thinking you can read minds at a distance,...
Marcus Bressler said...
"At this point I expect Crack to travel to NYC, walk up behind a Hasidic Jew, and sucker punch the unwary Jew right in one of his sidecurls."
I'll be sure to do that when I - an atheist - am not helping out at the local synagogue.
"How dare the Jooo walk unmolested down a sidewalk?"
That's a weird thing to say, because you guys remind me of this hero. Projecting much?
Hamas is in the end, a suicide by cop situation, I will shoot at you until you come and kill me.
Crack Emcee: "Drago,
Christopher Hitchens also said "Zionism is a waste of Judaism."
LOL
You did not understand what I was responding to nor the historical and political implications of what Hitchens presented.
Another perfect "Crackism".
Dude wrote “do a little research” so I did. His take didn’t pan out. I choose when and what to spend my time on because I have a modicum of self control.
Why should I give consideration to what Crack finds disgusting?
I find him disgusting. Piling disgust upon disgust seems a pointless endeavor.
I see Crack is still a full blown retard. Who put up wifi next to the cardboard box he lives in for him to steal?
'We who live abroad are accustomed to believe that almost all Eretz Israel is now uninhabited desert and whoever wishes can buy land there as he pleases. But this is not true. It is very difficult to find in the land cultivated fields that are not used for planting. Only those sand fields or stone mountains that would require the investment of hard labor and great expense to make them good for planting remain uncultivated and that’s because the Arabs do not like working too much in the present for a distant future. Therefore, it is very difficult to find good land for cattle. And not only peasants, but also rich landowners, are not selling good land so easily...We who live abroad are accustomed to believing that the Arabs are all wild desert people who, like donkeys, neither see nor understand what is happening around them. But this is a grave mistake. The Arab, like all the Semites, is sharp minded and shrewd. All the townships of Syria and Eretz Israel are full of Arab merchants who know how to exploit the masses and keep track of everyone with whom they deal – the same as in Europe. The Arabs, especially the urban elite, see and understand what we are doing and what we wish to do on the land, but they keep quiet and pretend not to notice anything. For now, they do not consider our actions as presenting a future danger to them. … But, if the time comes that our people’s life in Eretz Israel will develop to a point where we are taking their place, either slightly or significantly, the natives are not going to just step aside so easily.'
- Ahad Ha’am (Asher Hirsch Ginsberg) after a visit to Palestine, 1891
'In his book “Wrestling with Zion,” [Ahad Ha’am] urged the Jews “not to provoke the anger of the native people by doing them wrong...to handle these people with love and respect and, needless to say, with justice and good judgment.” He said, instead, “they deal with the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly, beat them shamefully for no sufficient reason, and even boast about their actions. There is no one to stop the flood and put an end to this despicable and dangerous tendency.” He added, “Our brothers indeed were right when they said that the Arab only respects he who exhibits bravery and courage,” but warned the Arabs would “keep their anger in their hearts” and “be revengeful like no other.”'
"We must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not going to sell them anything back."
- Theodor Herzl, the father of Zionism, 1895
"Herzl regarded Zionism's triumph as inevitable, not only because life in Europe was ever more untenable for Jews, but also because it was in Europe's interests to rid the Jews and relieved of anti-Semitism: The European political establishment would eventually be persuaded to promote Zionism. Herzl recognized that anti-Semitism would be HARNESSED to his own--Zionist-purposes."
- Benny Morris, the Israeli Historian, in his book, Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-1999 (p. 21)
"The antisemites WILL BECOME our most loyal friends, the antisemites nations will become our allies."
- Theodor Herzl
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