Writes Ross Douthat, in "The Victory Hamas Has Already Won" (NYT).
२९ ऑक्टोबर, २०२३
"The atrocities perpetrated by Hamas against innocent Israelis, the snuff films, mutilations and delight in simple cruelty, inspired immediate analogies to the Islamic State’s depredations."
"They also raised a question about Hamas’s strategy. Was this, as some averred, a desperate but calculated leap to barbarism, undertaken on the theory that only true grisliness would yield the kind of Israeli reaction required to scuttle peacemaking between Israel and its Arab neighbors?
Or alternately, was it proof that Hamas had no normal strategic plan at all?... Radical movements are often multivalent, with ideologically motivated sadists and strategically minded gamblers converging on the same plan despite somewhat different self-understandings.... [A] movement deliberately going to extremes risks the Islamic State scenario, where you isolate yourself so completely that you end up first morally delegitimized and then cornered and destroyed.... But suppose that you light the match, you cross the line, you leave the civilized world behind, and a lot of your allies just … stay with you? Suppose you turn southern Israel into an abattoir and you don’t end up like the Islamic State thereafter? Suppose that, instead, most of your sympathizers just go to their usual corners, some making excuses and downplaying the violence, others committing fully to the glory of your cause?"
Writes Ross Douthat, in "The Victory Hamas Has Already Won" (NYT).
Writes Ross Douthat, in "The Victory Hamas Has Already Won" (NYT).
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
८४ टिप्पण्या:
"Or alternately, was it proof that Hamas had no normal strategic plan at all?"
After watching several interviews with hamass leadership and fighters I am going with this option. Saying they have room temperature IQs is an insult Lord Kelvin. These people could fuck up a PBJ. I really don't think they had a plan for what comes after, unless you count some adolescent pinky and the brain plan to 'kill a bunch of Israelis pinky...and then we take over the world' as strategic thinking.
I’ve got to say that I’ve been totally and completely shocked at the number of American Democrats - including many politicians - who have openly supported Hamas. There are two Nebraska state senators (Cavanaugh and Hunt) who are Jew haters. They are also pro-child mutilation. And there were 10 Members of the House who didn’t vote for the resolution condemning Hamas.
Can’t these Dems see that Hamas is the same as the Nazis?
This is only the beginning. The Dems’ identity politics has splintered America. We had our first race riot after St. George Floyd OD’d. Expect more.
The political ideology of the Dems is insane and evil.
American Jews need to swallow their pride and stop voting for the Dems.
I also note a giant pro-Hamas rally in London yesterday. The UK is lost.
History repeating.
no they cannot, and being good eloi, they do not realize they are next on the chopping block,
It's a Pyrrhic victory for Hamas at best. The over intellectualization of the situation is very typical for people whose primary background is non-technical. Because they truly don't understand how the world actually functions and behaves from a deterministic model, they over complicate relatively basic situations.
Hamas is simply the kamikaze pilots for the empire of Iran. The purpose of their suicide mission is to invite Israel to commit genocide against the Palestinian people thus uniting the pan Islamic world with Iran leading the charge to annihilate Israel and finish the job Hitler started.
It's really not too different from Charlie Manson's crazy Helter skelter strategy for initiating a race war throughout the United States.
Dave Begely: you sound like you have adopted a defeatist attitude. That is exactly what the enemy wants. Don't be distracted by radical minorities whose voices are amplified by the social media outrage machine.
All of this is normative Islam. This is the Islam taught by Big Mo himself which he laid out in his Qur'an. Today's lefties simply can't abide by this reality. Explaining why they go ape-shiitte when this stuff is revealed. Actually they can't abide by your bringing this stuff out to the public.
Big Mo and his behavior are considered Islam's model behavior. It's irrelevant if you don't believe me. Their Qur'an says so. Expressly. Here ya go, lefties.
https://www.al-islam.org/perfect-man-murtadha-mutahhari/part-1-perfect-man
In Islamic theology, al-Insān al-Kāmil (Arabic: الإنسان الكامل), also rendered as Insān-i Kāmil (Persian/Urdu: انسان کامل) and İnsan-ı Kâmil (Turkish), is an honorific title to describe the Islamic prophet Muhammad. The phrase means "the person who has reached perfection",[1] literally "the complete person".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ins%C4%81n_al-K%C4%81mil
I can understand having great sympathy for normal people who live in Gaza who are going to be put into a terrifying war zone and possibly lose their lives.
I do not understand the huge pro-palestinian protests taking place in light of what happened. Except, of course, that the left seems to have protest mobs at the ready all the time.
If Hamas is "driven to" such awfulness, it must mean Israel is even more awful. Many people who sympathize with the Palestinians are going to actually get their priors strengthened.
Indeed, Dave Begley.
Many on the democratic left skip past the be-headed babies, raped and tortured women, burned alive elderly - surprise terror attack of innocents... to stand by their BS boo hoo love affair with the Hamas Nazis... and the Palestinian Jew-haters. Because "zionists!"
BTW- why won't neighboring Islamic nations take in the wonderful Palestinians? hmmm.
But suppose that you light the match, you cross the line, you leave the civilized world behind, and a lot of your allies just … stay with you?
Then we kill the allies that chose to stay with you when we kill you. No problem.
Here’s another supposition for Douthat — suppose the barbarism got out of hand and went way beyond whatever Hamas itself had planned? Because that appears to be what happened. Survivors reported that there were two waves of attackers, a first wave of well-armed, more or less uniformed men who were cruel and sadistic. But later a second wave of attackers came through the torn-down fence, not in any sort of uniform, and this second wave — presumed to be non-Hamas civilians — was even more cruel and sadistic. And thus you get women raped so violently their pelvis bones were broken, children bound to their mothers with wire and both burned to death, etc.
Civilization needs to decide how much barbarism it will tolerate (correct answer: zero) and respond appropriately.
Isn't the strategy simply "kill as many Jews as possible"? I mean, Hamas' charter makes clear that the goal is to destroy Israel and the Jews. Some people seem to assume that this is just rhetoric and there must be some more reasonable outcome the Palestinians hope to achieve that can be obtained through negotiation. But we have seen plenty of examples of Islamic extremism that is purely nihilistic. What evidence is there that Hamas can be accommodated short of the genocide they expressly state as their goal?
The moment you say " innocent Israelis" you have a problem. We know this, in part, because even many Jews say so. They can't all be antisemites.
I think we have our answer as to whether the Original Nazis were of the left or the right.
"your allies just … stay with you? . . . committing fully to the glory of your cause?"
It was a risky but also clever bet. They could count on the usual Jew hatred, of course, but they also forced their allies to double down on it to justify, to themselves, the Hamas depravity. Torturing Jews wasn't that bad cuz it didn't occur in a vacuum and Jews are butchers in an apartheid state and some people did something 75 years ago. But I think they underestimated how much Muslims and the western left just like to see Jewish blood spilled.
Big Mike 8:42 - Indeed.
But suppose that you light the match, you cross the line, you leave the civilized world behind, and a lot of your allies just … stay with you?
Recall what happened to Italy.
The New York Times still hasn't retracted their false claim that Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people. Now they're declaring that Hamas has already won the war.
LOL. I certainly hope the terrorists believe them.
It’s an existential battle. One side lives, one side dies. I support the Jews.
"the left seems to have protest mobs at the ready all the time."
Th Democrats pay good money for attendance. The Republicans are too cheap and too stupid to do effective protests.
Islam is a 7th century doctrine and lots of 7th century doctrines were savage and barbaric. The others all died out as civilization progressed. Except for the single example of Islam where it is at its most savage in the desert Middle East. The Israelis turned the desert green and that must not be allowed.
Hamas pursues the glory of dead, mutilated Jews.
Their supporters, local and world wide, thrill with their success.
Start with the assumption that that makes sense to them, and see if the facts don't line up to being a valid strategy.
Bottom line: It is now, as it's never not been, though sometimes less overtly so, the rules are different when the victims are Jews.
As Hitchens would have said, these are promising signs of polarization. The enemies of the West are out in the open.
Lots of good comments.
Clausewitz tells us that War has a dynamic of its own, not easily subject to rational control. If that is true of Western state conflicts, it's doubly true of conflicts of faiths and ideologies.
Some people just want to see the world burn
What some people won’t do for $10k and a free apartment.
never mind trying to figure out what Hamas is thinking..
Try to figure out what Queer-Jews-for-a-Free-Palestine are thinking!
For that matter, try to figure out what ANY queer is doing, supporting Hamas?
The Contradictions of 'Queers for Palestine'
Gay and transgender people—both in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank—face an extraordinary level of persecution.
Gay Palestinian Ahmad Abu Marhia beheaded in West Bank
Homosexuality is rejected within the most socially and religiously conservative parts of both Palestinian and Israeli societies but gay people in Israel can freely lead their lives.
I was listening to Melanie Phillips the other day - I'll have to find her reference, but what she said was this:
We can't trust the Gazan election results, as it was not a free election. So that election does not accurately reflect Gazan support for Hamas, and many Gazans undoubtedly hate Hamas. However - in plain old opinion polling, 75% of Palestinians support the killing of Israeli Jews, regardless of whether they support Hamas being the ones who do it.
So tell me how Israel sorts out the sheep from the goats.
And I've been listening to a lot of Maajid Nawaz on the subject of how to interpret the teachings of Islam in a way that supports a secular society. He manages it, and it's not even the most complicated theological argument, but it's not going to convince a lot of Muslims who aren't already predisposed to live in a secular fashion. And those people aren't the biggest challenge to Western society (though I understand that they are still a big problem, in that while they may not be taking up arms themselves, by and large they don't vigorously oppose Islamist jihadism).
Meanwhile HAMAS leader says women, eldery, children, etc.. need to die for them (I think that was also Hitler's plan.)
"Hamas Leader: ‘Women, Children, Elderly’ Must Die In Gaza To Help Our Fight Against Israel"
https://www.dailywire.com/news/hamas-leader-women-children-elderly-must-die-in-gaza-to-help-our-fight-against-israel?fbclid=IwAR2VxORBL45Da5GX95l1RANPW49Zd-FZHmOg86P53pOYP_NMddlYE2hlo7k
The Conflict Is Simple, Not Complex, From A Zionist Pro-Palestinian
It took me about 10 minutes to sort this out.
A Palestinian scholar from the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem sends a message to the “Queers for Palestine-crowd” in the West:
“The people of Palestine will not allow a single homosexual in our land," such perversion brings the wrath of Allah”
Suppose that you turn 1st world Israel (back) into an Islamic hellhole?
Imagine what that process would be like?
How could Israel not fight back?
"But suppose that you light the match, you cross the line, you leave the civilized world behind, and a lot of your allies just … stay with you?"
This is the cognitive dissonance thing with western "Free Palestine" pinheads. They perpetuate their ignorance by denial or by falsely elevating the level of Israeli Jew behavior to exceed Hamas terrorism and atrocities. Add to that the appetite of Islamic Jihadists, in general, for depravity, and add run of the mill antisemitism and you have the foundation for another holocaust.
Somewhere in demented minds Netanyahu is the new Trump. If America's stiff-necked, secular progressive Jews could see the danger and act accordingly they could save both nations. QuidProJoe is not their friend, nor is he a friend to Israel.
You think that COEXIST bumper sticker is going to save you? Man are you in for a big surprise!
"It took me about 10 minutes to sort this out."
Very simple indeed, Crack, 'cause this woman says so: Jewish unfairness = genocide. Right? (1:25, or so.) It must follow that "Jewish unfairness", therefore, justifies 5000 rockets and atrocity filled terrorism. Right? Simple, not complex. Expert analysis.
Cognitive dissonance plus confirmation bias. Simple, not complex. Next up, holocaust.
Good to see that Ross Doughnut hasn't gotten any smarter. We don't know how many of these atrocity STORIES are true. WE don't know how much of this happened. Or how much control the Hamas leadership had over its foot soldiers.
I read a story, put out by Israeli supporters, that one woman had her pelvis broken because of Hamas gang-rape. So, maybe the rest of the stories are equally fake. The 40 beheaded babies certainly was fake.
The only relevant story now is that Israel has killed 5000 or 6000 civilians in retaliation. that is the real war crime. Thats about a 5-1 kIll ratio. And the real barbarism. If Israel wanted to "take revenge" it would have invaded gaza with infantry and rooted out the Hamas leadership and killed them. Instead they drop 1000 lbs bombs on arab kids and old women.
But all Ross Doughnut can talk about is "Wow, why is Hamas so evil?" Or course if Ross said one bad word about Israel, he'd be an ex-NYT's columnist.
gilbar said...
A Palestinian scholar from the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem sends a message to the “Queers for Palestine-crowd” in the West:
“The people of Palestine will not allow a single homosexual in our land," such perversion brings the wrath of Allah”
Can you think the Palestinians are in the right and never plan on going there? Is that OK? Can those two things be disconnected? Can you think the Palestinians are in the right even if they are Arabs? Islamists? Completely insane? Is that OK? Can you think the Palestinians - who you never plan to visit - are in the right, even though they're Arabs, and Islamists, and completely insane? Is that OK? Is there anyway the world can be configured to make that possible? Or must they be in the wrong, simply because you're (quite obviously) as disgusted by their existence as they are by gays?
Victories of retaining rhetorical support take a back seat to military defeats.
Hamas is taking a military pounding in Gaza it cannot withstand indefinitely, and is not getting any military support besides the bare minimum of small rocket strikes from Hezbollah targeting north Israel. This is far from sufficient, which is why Hamas has released increasingly desperate statements in the last week and a half asking for someone, anyone, to open a second front that Israel has to devote considerable military resources to.
Satanic evil death cult.
The left hates Jews more than they disdain barbarism.
Always have.
On the other hand, the 'Palestinians' are not the brightest bulbs...
"You think that COEXIST bumper sticker is going to save you? Man are you in for a big surprise!"
If and when the extremely loud gunpowder-powered electric polka begins, take special note of those vehicles with said bumper sticker. If you're smart and wait a good 48 hours, you'll be able to snag that car zero questions asked.
The owner will be long dead.
Actually the tribes didn't need to wait for the sillies of the 21C to think of ambush attacking the New England settlers. King Philips War (1676) began with a general ambush by all the tribes, each attacking the settlers nearest them. At that time, settlers and tribespeople were both living in the same areas all over New England. Tribesmen hacked and killed and burned and tortured anyone nearby who trusted them. Read up on it if you like imagining such scenarios. Then, maybe, go on reading. They didn't get everyone, not even a tenth or a hundredth or a thousandth. The militias turned out; the tribesmen had to face well-armed men, not women and children. They lost; their towns were burned; they left their ancestral lands for Canada ahead of the vengeance on their trail. Sometimes at college graduations someone says a few words: "This land used to belong to the Massachusetts." And sometimes people say: "I wonder why the Massachusetts didn't try to kill all the settlers?" They say it in a silly, smirking way because they haven't bothered to find out that it's been tried.
Some crazy person asked..
Can you think the Palestinians are in the right
Nope, i can't think that glorifying rape and murder is "in the right"
Serious Question: WHAT would it take the Palestinians, to quit raping and murdering Jews?
If the owned all the land, 'from the river to sea', would that work?
Or would they STILL listen to the rocks and the trees ??
The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.
You can't spell Caliphate without hate.
No, insane Islamists have no rights that anyone need respect, now. They have told us that they love death as much as we love life, so I say--as an atheist--may the IDF oblige.
The West is the Best. Go West.
I just wish they/we, civilized people, whatever, didn’t go about persuading the Jew haters by taking away protected speech; no matter how abhorrent that speech may be, and it is. The minute we do is the minute we declare unconditional surrender.
The alternative kept the peace in the time of the Cold War. We are here… we’re still here. (Sorry about Chandler, I mean Mathew Perry, some people loved him)
Isis was defeated because we chose to fight them the hard way. We fought them while attempting to maintain our own values. We weren’t perfect. People giving up on ISIS by trying to come back home is not bad. Most times good is just not bad.
Back to Occam's Razor: maybe the barbarians of Hamas kill, rape, behead, mutilate, torture, kidnap and destroy because... they like it. Outcome irrelevant.
rcocean said...
Good to see that Ross Doughnut hasn't gotten any smarter. We don't know how many of these atrocity STORIES are true. WE don't know how much of this happened. Or how much control the Hamas leadership had over its foot soldiers.
I read a story, put out by Israeli supporters, that one woman had her pelvis broken because of Hamas gang-rape. So, maybe the rest of the stories are equally fake. The 40 beheaded babies certainly was fake.
The only relevant story now is that Israel has killed 5000 or 6000 civilians in retaliation. that is the real war crime. Thats about a 5-1 kIll ratio. And the real barbarism. If Israel wanted to "take revenge" it would have invaded gaza with infantry and rooted out the Hamas leadership and killed them. Instead they drop 1000 lbs bombs on arab kids and old women.
********
So....we CAN'T believe ANY of the stories put out by the Israelis, but we MUST believe ALL the stories put out by Hamas.
Got it.
He can't say the word 'slaughterhouse' and uses 'abattour' instead. Is he protecting the delicate sensibilities of his readers?
In a fight to the death, you can't afford to lose.
More evidence that Ross Douthat is an asshat.
C rack said,
"Can you think the Palestinians are in the right and never plan on going there? Is that OK? Can those two things be disconnected? Can you think the Palestinians are in the right even if they are Arabs? Islamists? Completely insane? Is that OK? Can you think the Palestinians - who you never plan to visit - are in the right, even though they're Arabs, and Islamists, and completely insane? Is that OK? Is there anyway the world can be configured to make that possible? Or must they be in the wrong, simply because you're (quite obviously) as disgusted by their existence as they are by gays?"
Careful that straw man doesn't catch fire.
O Muslims, O Abdullah
=======
these words have meaning >> O Submissive ones O beloved of allah[god]
First we come for Saturday, then we come for Sunday.
You all realize that the Hamas fighters were told they were taking a Harvard entrance exam...
rcocean said.... We don't know how many of these atrocity STORIES are true. WE don't know how much of this happened...
10/29/23, 11:29 AM
Except we do know that it happened that armed and organized Arabs attacked citizens in Israel, killed them, kidnapped them, terrorized them, and that many of these atrocity stories are true. We know this because the Arabs took video of themselves doing these things, livestreamed the acts, posted evidence on the internet, bragged about doing it, and because Arabs, terrorists, and democrat party members everywhere celebrated it. There's not a lot of deniability here.
This, Jan 6, and Ukraine were ideological honey pots that attracted latent militants worldwide.
As with the khaki-wearing masked Patriot Front -- the Gaza protests mainly serves to alert or tip-off government agencies and/or sucker naive activists to come out in the open. The activists might then be easily used/exploited/tracked/sniped/cancelled/imprisoned later.
How many law enforcement infiltrators are already in place? How many photograph databases are being built? How many cell phones are being tracked? How many family trees are being discovered? How many disposed beverage containers are being collected to get DNA from their saliva?
https://theweek.com/us/1014893/what-is-patriot-front
Hamas: cowardly Sneak attack without warning... targeting innocents. mutilating and torturing innocent people. Who is more innocent that a baby?
Israel response: endless warnings to "get out". They drop leaflets.
You mean, you murder and rape and kill hundreds of innocent people, and then you drag a bunch of the survivors back to your reeking lair, and people act as if you had a perfect right to kidnap those people, and hold them for ransom? The "civilized world" knows exactly where you are, and yet you are still breathing? And they are arguing about how much to pay you to let them go, instead of discussing the arrangements for your summary execution? Ross has jumped the shark with this one.
What’s the point in trying to differentiate Hamas, Isis, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, or the other nine hundred blood thirsty versions of radical Islam? They’re all the same, and they all want to kill and/or enslave us. You can pacify them, wipe them out, or surrender to them. There is no fourth option. The hard left wing of the Democratic Party has decided to surrender, but the rest of them are worried such a position will jeopardize their political power. If the Dem establishment can surrender to Islam AND keep their power they’ll be happy to do so.
Anyone have a break out of the 1300 Israeli deaths by civilian vs. Military/Para-military and police? And adults vs. Kids?
Crack Emcee: "Or must they be in the wrong, simply because you're (quite obviously) as disgusted by their existence as they are by gays?"
LOL
Hey Crack, your 7th century death cultists aren't just "disgusted by gays" (a term your death cultists dont use by the way), they throw them off buildings, cut their heads off, hang them and burn them alive, etc.
Gee, that sounds like just a tad more...animated...than just "disgusted by", doesnt it?
But hey, I'm certain your 7th century death cultists appreciate your non-stop efforts at sanitizing their ISIS/nazi tactics.
And here's something Ill leave you with just because you clearly believe every Jew in Israel is a horrific whitey that probably owes you reparations:
https://twitter.com/yaelbt/status/1718673151008157793?t=_2yRBYNGZQqb2VLQOdEEcg&s=19
“I’ve got to say that I’ve been totally and completely shocked at the number of American Democrats - including many politicians - who have openly supported Hamas.”
I am always shocked that Begley doesn’t seem to know any Democrats that don’t fit into his very narrow description of a Democrat. No imagination? No socialization outside his own tribe?
I don’t know of even ONE Democrat acquaintance, relative or friend who supports Hamas.
“Dave Begely: you sound like you have adopted a defeatist attitude. That is exactly what the enemy wants. Don't be distracted by radical minorities whose voices are amplified by the social media outrage machine.”
Indeed.
The strategy of the Hamas attack -- from Iran's point of view -- is to sabotage the Abraham Accords and to keep Saudi Arabia from signing it.
The more Islamic states who recognize Israel, the more we wipe out Islamic extremism and terrorism.
There's a secret war going on for Islamic hearts and minds. There are Islamic people who want to annihilate all the Jews. And rule the world by armed fear. These are ignorant, badly educated people, and they are afraid themselves.
And there are smart and happy Islamic people who want to live in peace with other faiths.
In the Holy Land, the key question is how Muslims talk about Israel.
Egypt was the first Muslim state to sign an accord with Israel. That's why Sadat was murdered by a Muslim terrorist.
So decades passed before any more Islamic states wanted to recognize Israel.
That's why the Abraham Accords are so huge!
Trump got two Islamic states to sign on.
Should have won the Nobel Peace Prize for that one. But sometimes it's better to be under-the-radar.
Saudi Arabia was about to sign on to the Abraham Accords. And so Hamas murdered a bunch of Israelis, to sabotage that treaty. Now the Saudis are waiting to see how it plays out.
Liberals who love Hamas are not liberals. Just like ANTIFA is not actually anti-fascist.
Hamas and ANTIFA dress the same way, have you noticed?
(See also the Ku Klux Klan, cowards who had to hide their faces under bedsheets).
A Message to Hamas
“The left hates Jews more than they disdain barbarism.”
What utter bullshit. Many on the left are Jewish and support Israel and some even belong to the IDF.
'How many law enforcement infiltrators are already in place? How many photograph databases are being built? How many cell phones are being tracked? How many family trees are being discovered? How many disposed beverage containers are being collected to get DNA from their saliva?'
The ones protesting on the side of the Palestinians will be identified and given medals by the Dems...
Blogger Lem the misspeller said...
I just wish they/we, civilized people, whatever, didn’t go about persuading the Jew haters by taking away protected speech; no matter how abhorrent that speech may be, and it is. The minute we do is the minute we declare unconditional surrender.
No Lem, let's have the government keep allowing it, but have private citizens shout them down on the spot, or track them to their lairs and make them own it.
I don’t know of even ONE Democrat acquaintance, relative or friend who supports Hamas.
Your people are rioting in the streets in support of Hamas. By the thousands. Just because you don't know them personally doesn't change that.
Own it. And own them. They're yours. All yours.
Saint Croix - 6:30
I've noticed.
If someone has proposed prohibiting demos and protests for or against, I'm against that. There will be plenty of time for that when the big war starts.
I really don't think they had a plan for what comes after, unless you count some adolescent pinky and the brain plan to 'kill a bunch of Israelis pinky...and then we take over the world' as strategic thinking.
Who would win in a strategic thinking contest: Hamas or House Republicans??
I'll be here (drinking) all night, folks!
“Own it. And own them. They're yours. All yours.”
And your people were carrying Nazi flags and tiki torches in Charlottesville, own it they’re all yours.
The strategy of the Hamas attack -- from Iran's point of view -- is to sabotage the Abraham Accords and to keep Saudi Arabia from signing it.
=======
do events make better sense as the fulcrum of thought fixes on 'stopping Abrahan Accords' which is subset of Trump Derangement!
gilbar said...
Some crazy person asked..
Can you think the Palestinians are in the right
Nope, i can't think that glorifying rape and murder is "in the right"
Once again, I ask about the Palestinians and you offer up an argument against Hamas. You guys are hopeless.
Russia Collusion Truther and Hillary/FBI Hoax Dossier Dead Ender Inga: "What utter bullshit. Many on the left are Jewish and support Israel and some even belong to the IDF."
LOL
Tens of thousands of western lefties aligned with the 7th century death cultists are in the streets and in the media and on our campuses every single day making it quite clear what they believe and what they stand for: From the river to the sea....
Your typical Inga BS denying what is manifestly public, vocal and visible isnt going to fly on this one.
You'd better go back to the drawing board with your BLM/marxist/Muslim Brotherhood amigos and rethink your tactics because the jig is up...and everyone sees it.
But only everyone.
Even Haaretz sees it: "Opinion | How Palestinians and Their Western Allies Justify the Horrors Committed by Hamas"
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-10-26/ty-article-opinion/.highlight/how-palestinians-and-their-western-allies-justify-the-horrors-committed-by-hamas/0000018b-6b34-d14c-adfb-efbcb9280000
Time Mag: "How the Activist Left Turned On Israel"
https://time.com/6323730/hamas-attack-left-response/
The Atlantic: "The Progressives Who Flunked the Hamas Test"
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/hamas-pop-intersectionality-leftism-israel/675625/
I don’t know of even ONE Democrat acquaintance, relative or friend who supports Hamas.
@Inga, have you thought to ask? Those weren’t Young Republicans waving pro-Hamas signs and pounding on the doors of the Cooper Union library screaming for the blood of Jews.
Politics makes strange bedfellows
Chinese social media site Weibo noted this:
Over the past two weeks, a noticeable pro-Palestine sentiment has emerged on Chinese social media, which is closely tied to the alignment of Chinese scholars and the government’s position.
It would be helpful for the IDF to announce each morning that they would accept an unconditional surrender.
Another perspective.
Onthe one hand we have a 12th century death cult that brooks no deviation from its 1000 year old narrative.
On the other we have western civilization. Open ended, tolerant and liberal,(in the classical sense)
Western civilization treasures life and invents stuff. Islam is indifferent to life and destroys stuff.
I'm siding with the western civ. guys.
Inga: "And your people were carrying Nazi flags and tiki torches in Charlottesville, own it they’re all yours."
Self-proclaimed Mueller-Mind-Reader-Hoax-Moron cant deal with reality so she retreats back into the Charlottesville Hoax.
Naturally.
Hamas used similar atrocious punishments--killing women and children, stabbing, beating and burning as well as shooting to death--on the Palestinians in refugee camps in Gaza at part of their campaign to overcome their rival Fatah, and become rulers of the Palestinians. When Israel withdrew from Gaza, Hamas was able to win an election and take control at least in part because of the fear it had cultivated among the citizens.
Interesting to read what Kareem Abduel-Jabbar has to say about Hamas.
He's Cali all over.
He talks about our own capacity for evil, but the only ones he can name are all Republicans (Trump, DeSantis, Gaetz, MTG).
Calls Trump a "rapist" and a fraud.
The rapes of innocent people in Israel? Kind of skips over that.
His take on the Mideast crisis is pretty good, I thought, particularly for a Muslim who has his own biases.
I wish nice moderate Muslims like Kareem and Chappelle would name the bad guys in their own (religious) house. If you can't call out Hamas for its baby murders and rapes, then you're either a hypocrite or you're looking the other way. And I think too they are perhaps scared of Hamas, because terrorists have killed artists and other people from afar. I know some Muslims have sharply criticized Hamas, but most have not.
Saint Croix said...
"If you can't call out Hamas for its baby murders and rapes, then you're either a hypocrite or you're looking the other way."
If America would demand that Israel show us everyone they've killed, every day for the last 75 years, then I would think this would be a hypocrite-free fight. The truth is, we let Israel get away with anything because no one shows us what they do.
We only see what Hamas does.
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