९ ऑक्टोबर, २०२३

"One Israeli mother told CNN she had been on the phone with her children, aged 16 and 12, who were home alone when they heard gunshots outside and people trying to enter."

"Then, over the phone, she heard the door break down. 'I heard terrorists speaking in Arabic to my teenagers. And the youngest saying to them "I’m too young to go,"' the mother said. 'And the phone went off, the line went off. That was the last time I heard from them.'"

Said one Israeli mother, quoted in "Festivalgoers, children, soldiers: What we know about the people captured by Hamas" (CNN).

[An] Israeli father told CNN... recognized his wife in a viral video that shows a group of people being loaded on the back of a truck flanked by Hamas militants, while chants of “Allahu Akbar” ring out.... In another video, geolocated by CNN to Gaza’s Shejaiya neighborhood, a barefoot woman is pulled from the trunk of a Jeep by a gunman and then forced into the backseat of the car. Her face is bleeding, and her wrists appear to be cable-tied behind her back.... 

Soldiers Al Qassam Brigades claimed to capture “dozens” of Israeli soldiers on Saturday. “We bring good news to our (Palestinian) prisoners and our people that the al Qassam Brigades have dozens of captured (Israeli) officers and soldiers in their hands,” the group’s spokesman Abu Obaida said in a post on Telegram. “They have been secured in safe places and resistance tunnels.” Video... shows militants yank two clearly terrified and stunned soldiers out of a disabled tank....

९६ टिप्पण्या:

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

"That was the last time I heard from them."

This quote reminds me of the Jewish woman in that great documentary about about the attack on Israeli Olympians in the 70s, One Day In September. She keeps re-counting stories about her husband, and ending each one with the phrase "That was the last time I saw him."

Tina Trent म्हणाले...

Tommy Robinson said it right: Hamas is ISIS.

There are celebrations in Ontario, Detroit, New York City, Malmo, Germany, Britain, just as there were on 9/11 ... we have imported monsters cheering for their compatriots who gang rape and murder and parade the dead girl's corpse in the streets, spitting on it.

We have people in Congress gleeful about this. And a President (Abscendent) whose reaction was to hold a barbecue and offer no comment.

gspencer म्हणाले...

And still, leftists will call, and expect us to believe, Islam the religion of peace.

Sebastian म्हणाले...

Easy for me to say, but Israelis need to clamp down on the trauma dumping and take their losses. When the real fighting starts, and Israeli wipes out Gaza, the world won't care about their pain anyway. They're just Jews.

Old and slow म्हणाले...

This is being widely and openly celebrated in major cities all across the west. These people are savages and need to be dealt with as such. There is no doubt about the ultimate goals and desires of these Islamist monsters. They cannot be placated, and they need to be stopped. I suspect it won't happen.

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

I wish someone would calculate the number of dead that Joe Biden is responsible for. Over 500k in Ukraine. 100k in America due to fentanyl.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Tina Trent said...

"We have imported monsters"

Old and slow said...

"These people are savages and need to be dealt with as such."

As someone who supports Jews, but also realizes what a terrible job everyone has done at explaining the situation to Americans and others, I find these comments as troubling as the actions of anyone else. Every conservative on this site supports the idea that if someone comes in to your house you can shoot them, but, somehow, they're offended when Hamas strikes back at the people, they think, have entered their house and taken over without their permission. I would think explaining, how that can be, would be a bigger priority than trying to convince everybody Palestinians and their defenders are the assholes, when, to them, this whole thing is nothing more than Winston Churchill's lines on a napkin or something.


Birches म्हणाले...

One of CNN's top headlines: ‘Nowhere to go’: Ordinary Palestinians live in fear as Israel retaliates against Hamas

I'm watching the propaganda machine in real time and it's just breathtaking.

planetgeo म्हणाले...

So, I hear they had a nice BBQ at the White House. Looks like they got rid of the wrong Commander.

Gahrie म्हणाले...

You cannot co-exist with those who refuse to co-exist with you. At the very least Hamas needs to be wiped out to the last man and woman.

gilbar म्हणाले...

Remember! Islam is a Religion of PEACE*.. So quit complaining!
SURE, they rape and murder little girls.. Heck! they rape and murder babies
BUT! the Reason WHY they rape and murder is because they want PEACE*

PEACE* which is defined as: Submission

gilbar म्हणाले...

when You see and hear about people Raping and Murdering and dragging corpses around..
isn't Your first thought: "i need to drive around downtown in my truck celebrating" ?

rhhardin म्हणाले...

Feelings stories are big now, apparently for the women's market. Ukraine is exclusively blowing things up stories, for men.

They're both entertainment choices.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

Imagine if Wisconsin were enemies with Northern Illinois. And and they could slip over the border, and kidnap and kill your kids. Or launch rockets indiscriminately from Waukegan to Kenosha. This is CRAZY.

I do want to point out, that University Liberal Professors love to side with "Palestine". Wonder what they are thinking now? Are they passing out sweets in by the Wisconsin State Capital today?

Everyone knows that Egypt will not let ONE Palestinian in their country to "help" them and they are right on the border.

Big Mike म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Jaq म्हणाले...

“Milley said it’d be cheaper to leave all of our equipment behind in Afghanistan, instead of flying it back. That’s when I knew he was a f**king idiot!” - Trump

Not to mention the "grain deal" which allowed ships full of weapons sold by the rotten regime in Kiev to end up in the Middle East.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

WWII made civilian populations fair game in the art of war. At one time you only killed those in uniform...well...those were the "honorable" rules of war.

But, since WWII you can fire bomb them, drop bombs on metropolitan areas, nuke them, and now, you can slip inside a country and kidnap and rape them. The 260 dead at the rave is horror.

It's almost like an old fairy tale where monsters can come out of the woods and eat your children.

Gahrie म्हणाले...

WWII made civilian populations fair game in the art of war. At one time you only killed those in uniform...well...those were the "honorable" rules of war.

Bullshit. Until the rise of professional armies in the 18th century, the way you paid your soldiers was by allowing them to rape, loot and rob after the battle was won.

wildswan म्हणाले...

Let's dialog

"Every conservative on this site supports the idea that if someone comes in to your house you can shoot them, but, somehow, they're offended when Hamas strikes back"

Somebody comes into my house to steal so naturally I go the party down the block and rape the women. Is that the argument?

"taken over without their permission."

The Gullah, enslaved rice farmers from Africa, built up the rice plantations in South Carolina, using African rice-growing techniques. They should have been given those plantations after the Civil War and then they should have handed the land back with all its improvements to the original tribes. Is that the argument?

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

The leftist American squad are OK with it.
biden and Iran funded it.

One more FU from the corrupt left.... to humanity.

Pete म्हणाले...

Re: the comment above "they're offended when Hamas strikes back at the people, they think, have entered their house and taken over without their permission".

I'm not sure the "entered their house" analogy works. How about "my neighborhood, which had people of 2 different religions for over a thousand years, had many more people of the other religion settle here 75 years ago, and I'm still mad about it."

The "monsters" and "savages" labels don't sound too far off.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

gilbar - I like your avatar. Nice! I want one.

gilbar म्हणाले...

Gusty Winds said..
It's almost like an old fairy tale where monsters can come out of the woods and eat your children.

Or.. It's almost like MOST of the history of the world.
Do you think the Vikings spared women and children? Do you count enslaving as sparing?
Mongols?
Huns?
Vandals?
Goths?
Romans?
Carthaginians?

gilbar म्हणाले...

Gusty Winds said...
I do want to point out, that University Liberal Professors love to side with "Palestine". Wonder what they are thinking now?

More than two dozen Harvard student organizations declared in a statement on Saturday that Israel was "entirely responsible" for the violence occurring in its war against Gaza.
i guess these are student orgs, but you know where students get their ideas

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Soros is funding the great influx of illegals. you bet there's some terrorists mixed in the bunch.

Enjoy what you've created - leftist neo-Stalinists.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

Tina Trent said...we have imported monsters cheering for their compatriots who gang rape and murder and parade the dead girl's corpse in the streets, spitting on it.

Celebrations in liberal cities all over America this weekend. Chicago. SF. NYC. Footage of the SF celebration looks like a lot of typical American born liberals.

But now on twitter, and who knows, lots of warnings about Hamas cells in American cites that easily came into America because of Biden and the wide open southern border.



Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Why is it okay for the Jews to have their own country and everybody is anxious to go kill the Muslims who challenge that idea.
And yet we're told it's evil and wrong for someone to even say, Norway for Norwegians or Sweden for Swedes and those countries must allow thousands of Muslims to immigrate and change their entire culture.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Israel, and I'm not anti-immigrant, but it's an obvious double standard...isn't it?

It probably has something to do with the anticipated 2nd coming of Jesus in the case of Israel and the anticipated 2nd coming of the communist revolution in the case of Europe. I dunno.

Oso Negro म्हणाले...

The Crack Emcee said...

"Every conservative on this site supports the idea that if someone comes into your house you can shoot them, but, somehow, they're offended when Hamas strikes back at the people, they think, have entered their house and taken over without their permission."


Are we talking 1948 or more recently here? Is there a reasonable amount of time after which historical grievances stop? Should the Sioux be applauded for rising up and sacking Rapid City? Should you return to Africa to reclaim the land that your ancestors were sent away from as captives? Should I be encouraged to attack Istanbul in hopes of re-establishing Constantinople and the Hagia Sophia? Historical grievance is one thing. The MF'er shooting rockets at your house from next door has to be dealt with NOW. You observation about the lack of fight in Bryan Carson (murdered Brooklyn activist) was spot on. What do you see as the end game in Gaza? As I see it, the Arabs had their cracks at Israel and, so far, have lost. Should they keep trying?

tommyesq म्हणाले...

Every conservative on this site supports the idea that if someone comes in to your house you can shoot them, but, somehow, they're offended when Hamas strikes back at the people, they think, have entered their house and taken over without their permission.

The problem with this is that the only solution that I can see is for one of these groups to annihilate the other completely, so there is no one left to feel like someone else is in their house. What is Option B?

rhhardin म्हणाले...

Butte-Anaconda, Montana
Wednesday Morning, June 2, 1948 Price 5¢

Headline:

Jews and Arabs Accept U.N. Armistice Plea

Gahrie म्हणाले...

Why is it okay for the Jews to have their own country and everybody is anxious to go kill the Muslims who challenge that idea.

Because the Palestinians were offered their own country and have continuously rejected the offer. Because the Palestinians aren't "challenging an idea", they're waging war. Because Islam is at war with Western Civilization, and Israel is a part of western Civilization. Because given the chance, Islam would do exactly the same things they're doing to Israel to Spain if given the chance. Islam considers Spain to be enemy occupied Muslim land.

Buckwheathikes म्हणाले...

What you will find interesting about this is that CNN is covering this war. You're seeing live pictures and film. Journalists are on the ground. You're seeing real-time coverage by ordinary people, with their cell phone footage. Twitter is all over this war.

Contrast that with the money-laundering operation going on in the Ukraine that Joe Biden claims is a war and that $75 billion of YOUR TAX DOLLARS has disappeared into. CNN doesn't have a single employee covering the Ukraine "war."

The Democrats are stealing the country blind.

Jon Burack म्हणाले...

I see Crack Emcee is taking a lot of flak here. I often sort of like Crack, when I can understand him. I do not understand him here. Among his remarks is this one, I believe I can comment on without getting too worked up.

"when Hamas strikes back at the people, they think, have entered their house and taken over without their permission."

I am sorry, Crack, but this has absolutely nothing to do with what Hamas believes its grievance is and what it proposes to do about it. Hamas does not regard Gaza or all of Israel itself as "its house." It does not give a fig for territory or home. What Hamas thinks is (and it is written into their constitution) is that the Jews are monkeys and pigs, and that the very rocks and trees cry out to Muslims to come kill the Jew hiding behind them. Hamas (like most other Islamists) is in fact the direct descendant of a twisted reading of the Koran mixed in with the quite specific form of antisemitism imported from Hitler by the mufti of Jerusalem during WWII and spread far and wide by his accolades. That is, these maniacs are genocidal, a badly deformed group of death-oriented fanatics. Your formula for them is a huge copout. I am surprised, frankly, you hold to this.

Buckwheathikes म्हणाले...

Gusty Winds said: "WWII made civilian populations fair game in the art of war ..."

No, WWII reminded is that war is just a more bloody form of regular old politics. Civilians are always the cause of, and the solution to, war. In the United States, we had a war machine that enriched millions of civilians. So did Japan. And Germany. That machine had to be attacked and nothing changed until it was attacked. Nothing changed until the civilians started getting targeted.

Sun Tzu taught all this in the 5th century BEFORE Jesus Christ even made an appearance. It has always been so.

Wars don't stop if the civilians never experience any of its effects. Didn't you watch Star Trek as a kid? "Operation Annihilation" I believe is the episode where Captain Kirk destroys the computers so that the civilians can get killed. Give them a real taste of what's going on.

Buckwheathikes म्हणाले...

The Crack Emcee cannot figure out how things work: "Every conservative on this site supports the idea that if someone comes into your house you can shoot them, but, somehow, they're offended when Hamas strikes back at the people, they think, have entered their house and taken over without their permission."

You cannot discuss Jews in the United States. Has that not been made clear to you, comrade?

If you attempt to discuss the Jews or their actions then your job, your home, maybe even your children will be taken from you. You will be utterly destroyed.

So of course American conservatives support the Jews. This comes as some surprise to you? Do you understand how it works now?

mikee म्हणाले...

If war crime trials do not follow, with executions of the guilty, the Israelis will have failed and lost this war.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

wildswan said...

"Somebody comes into my house to steal so naturally I go the party down the block and rape the women. Is that the argument?"

Once you do someone wrong, you don't get to dictate the level of retaliation. Understanding that only for Israeli is also revealing.

"taken over without their permission."

"The Gullah, enslaved rice farmers from Africa, built up the rice plantations in South Carolina, using African rice-growing techniques. They should have been given those plantations after the Civil War and then they should have handed the land back with all its improvements to the original tribes. Is that the argument?"

I think it's racist, how many times I make an argument that somebody throws some black people back in my face, like they assume that one thing - the color of the Gullah's skin - will make the argument irrefutable. I don't assume every argument about a white person needs the example of a white people in order to convince you guys of anything. Hell, I'll probably throw Oprah up in your face, to attack NewAge, before anyone else. Food for thought.

That said, you're arguing against the human heart. The Palestinians have been consistent in their viewpoint since the day Israel was founded. This wasn't some idea to them, that they wanted to be about, like the Jews had, but their reality: People are living on their land. If that's wrong, say it's wrong. But, if it's right, then it's time to do the right thing. And that can begin by stating it clearly.



Buckwheathikes म्हणाले...

Bob Boyd asked: "Why is it okay for the Jews to have their own country."

Land isn't owned, Bob. It's defended. Think about that. Your land isn't yours if you refuse to fight for it. Ask the American Indian. They didn't fight hard enough or smart enough for "their" land (who gave the land to the Indians??? I missed that part). The people the Indians took "their land" from also didn't fight hard enough, or smart enough.

Land is defended. If enough people want to have a country of their own and are willing to fight to keep it only then is the land theirs.

This has always been. Throughout human history. America can be taken as well by any group willing to do it.

The Palestinians don't own their land because they refused to defend it. It was easier to capitulate to those imposing the creation of Israel on them. The rest of the world wanted a place for Jews to go. To get the Jews out of their countries, you see. Thus ... Israel.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

I question whether Israel can win this. What I see is a country that has gone soft- perhaps too soft to survive. I don't know what the Israelis are going to do here. I think the most humanitarian thing they are likely to do in response is to cut off the water and electrical power, and mine every square meter around Gaza to a depth of 1000 feet and let the Gazans and the rest of the world figure out what to do about it. The other option would seem to be to push the Gazans into the Mediterranean by leveling every building inside Gaza's border.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Pete said...

"I'm not sure the "entered their house" analogy works. How about "my neighborhood, which had people of 2 different religions for over a thousand years, had many more people of the other religion settle here 75 years ago, and I'm still mad about it."

People lived there for thousands of years, but, as you seem to understand, it was either "my neighborhood" - the people who lived there and not the traumatized arriving from Yurp - or no one owned it. No one claimed to own it. No one claimed to own it and defended that claim with machine guns. And practically the whole world didn't look on, saying this was gonna happen whether you like it or not, because we have more collective power than you do.

That's a little different than the benevolent story you guys are telling.

alanc709 म्हणाले...

Just remember- the people pushing open borders hope and expect to have the same rape and murder rampage to happen in London, New York, Toronto, Berlin, etc. This is what the left is pushing for. Every liberal wants you dead.

Jaq म्हणाले...

War is changing. Per the Asia Times (ChiCom mouthpiece) the US is strongly considering abandoning the M1 Abrams tank for battlefield robotic drones. The future is gonna be great. Who can out manufacture who is the question.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Bob Boyd said...

"Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Israel, and I'm not anti-immigrant, but it's an obvious double standard...isn't it?"

Ditto, and yes. All I'm asking of the people here is to give me a narrative, other than "we gave the Jews guns and they made the best of it" because - if that's all there is to it - the Palestinians are totally right and there's nothing anyone can say about their anger or how they express it: we're the baddies.

"It probably has something to do with the anticipated 2nd coming of Jesus in the case of Israel and the anticipated 2nd coming of the communist revolution in the case of Europe. I dunno."

And they're not telling. They just want us to accept it. Which does lead one to think about what our somewhat fanatically Christian nation has invested in all of this. They do want to see the man who walks on water come back, and we all know how that supposed to be achieved. Like I said, my interest is in crazy beliefs, and most people I encounter are holding some pretty insane shit, very, very tightly. And part of the problem is them never understanding that gets us into a lot of trouble:

“The sleep of reason brings forth monsters, and the past two decades have produced monsters galore. Some are manifestly sinister, others seem merely comical---harmless fun, as Nancy Reagan said of her husband’s reliance on astrology. Cumulatively, however, the proliferation of obscurantist bunkum and the assault on reason are a menace to civilization,..."

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Oso Negro said...

"Are we talking 1948 or more recently here? Is there a reasonable amount of time after which historical grievances stop?"

Blacks are still pissed about slavery and Jim Crow. Indians are still pissed about losing their country. Mexicans are still pissed about losing 3/4 of their nation. Hell, I'm still upset about my divorce. You're talking about the human heart after a betrayal. You can't wish that away. When you do somebody wrong, you've done somebody wrong. Making it right, or trying to make it right, are your only options. As he Israelis just learned: They said they thought the Palestinians minds were now on making money, when it's now obvious they were never thinking about that for a single moment.

That they still feel this passionately, after 75 years, speaks volumes about the level of outrage they feel.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

tommyesq said...

"The problem with this is that the only solution that I can see is for one of these groups to annihilate the other completely, so there is no one left to feel like someone else is in their house. What is Option B?"

Not relying only on what YOU can see.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Jon Burack said...

"I see Crack Emcee is taking a lot of flak here."

I do not see that. As someone said, I see a dialogue.

"I often sort of like Crack, when I can understand him. I do not understand him here."

Keep that in mind as you pass judgment: you're the one confused.

"I am sorry, Crack, but this has absolutely nothing to do with what Hamas believes its grievance is and what it proposes to do about it. Hamas does not regard Gaza or all of Israel itself as "its house." It does not give a fig for territory or home. What Hamas thinks is (and it is written into their constitution) is that the Jews are monkeys and pigs, and,...I am surprised, frankly, you hold to this."

Your first mistake is assuming I hold to it. How can I be against religion, every day that I'm here, but all of a sudden you assume that I am in favor of a religious group? I am articulating a viewpoint I see has become very popular and I'm asking you guys to supply another narrative that refutes that viewpoint. I don't need a lecture on what Hamas is. I know what Hamas is. I need a lecture why - from the Muslim point of view, Hamas is unnecessary, considering what the world has been willing to do to the Palestinians, if they have a righteous beef.

JK Brown म्हणाले...

"In another video, geolocated by CNN to Gaza’s Shejaiya neighborhood, a barefoot woman is pulled from the trunk of a Jeep by a gunman and then forced into the backseat of the car. Her face is bleeding, and her wrists appear to be cable-tied behind her back.... "

Interesting. They skip that the woman had a large blood stain on the seat of her pants indicated violent intimate abuse.

This is an ex-intel guy turned journalist's assessment of Hamas released video

https://ryanmcbeth.substack.com/p/analyzing-imagery-from-operation

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Buckwheathikes said...

"You cannot discuss Jews in the United States. Has that not been made clear to you, comrade?"

I've worked as Shabbos for several synagogues over the years. One of my favorite stories: I was working the door for a Yom Kippur celebration, and this one old guy was rude to me, so I said, "Dude, you're pretty fucked up for a Jew" and he replied, "Why do you think I'm here?"

BTW - if you haven't seen Ari Shaffir's comedy special, Jew, then you're really missing something special - including an explanation for why gays adopted the rainbow as a symbol.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

Bob Boyd asked: "Why is it okay for the Jews to have their own country."

The Mormons got Utah.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Yancey Ward said...

"I question whether Israel can win this. What I see is a country that has gone soft- perhaps too soft to survive. I don't know what the Israelis are going to do here."

As I stated elsewhere, I don't understand how Israel could be holding raves in the situation that they're in. That speaks volumes.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

im in vermont said...

"Who can out manufacture who is the question."

Have you been watching War Factories?

gilbar म्हणाले...

the US is strongly considering abandoning the M1 Abrams tank for battlefield robotic drones

well from what we've learned about Leopard II's and Bradley's; the rule of armor seems to be in decline

And Israel has shown us the limitations of Iron Domes and smart fences..
Here's an idea: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

gilbar म्हणाले...

seriously, you suppose home gun ownership in israel will increase?
Israel’s Firearm Law of 1949 and its related ordinances do not recognize any “right to bear arms,” and private gun ownership is subject to many restrictions. For one, civilians can only apply for a pistol, and rifles are wholly off-limits. Furthermore, as a general rule, civilians can have no more than 50 bullets in their possession at any given time.

Original Mike म्हणाले...

"Who can out manufacture who is the question."

All wars (big ones, anyways) are won by out manufacturing the enemy. When the US entered WWII, the axis powers were doomed.

Jim Howard म्हणाले...

WWII made civilian populations fair game in the art of war. At one time you only killed those in uniform...well...those were the "honorable" rules of war.

General Scipio will get back to you after he finishes burning Carthage to the ground, killing most of the residents, enslaving the rest, and salting the earth.

Jim Howard म्हणाले...

WWII made civilian populations fair game in the art of war. At one time you only killed those in uniform...well...those were the "honorable" rules of war.

General Scipio will get back to you after he finishes burning Carthage to the ground, killing most of the residents, enslaving the rest, and salting the earth.

Gahrie म्हणाले...

I know what Hamas is. I need a lecture why - from the Muslim point of view, Hamas is unnecessary, considering what the world has been willing to do to the Palestinians, if they have a righteous beef.

There's your problem right there...the Palestinians do not have a righteous beef. They were offered a 'house" and refused it, because they wanted theirs and the one belonging to the Jews.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

War is money - people.

The mad Mullahs of Iran are in power against the will of the Iranian people. (sound familiar?)

Most Palestinians are injected and propagandized constantly with nothing but Jew Hate. Hate hate hate. Remove the propaganda and the younger generation want a peaceful co-existence. The old guard white left - want war and victimhood.

Gahrie म्हणाले...

That they still feel this passionately, after 75 years, speaks volumes about the level of outrage they feel.

The only thing that's speaking loudly is your ignorance of History and Islam.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

@ Gahrie and Buckwheathikes

You guys completely ignored my actual question. I don't think either of you read past the first sentence before you jumped to the conclusion that I'm against Israel and went off on an impassioned defense of the Israel's right to exist, something I did even not question in that comment. In fact, I clearly stated the opposite.

Gahrie म्हणाले...

People lived there for thousands of years, but, as you seem to understand, it was either "my neighborhood" - the people who lived there and not the traumatized arriving from Yurp - or no one owned it.

The Romans didn't conquer and destroy the Jewish kingdoms of Israel and expel the Jews? The Muslim Turks didn't conquer what had become the Christian Holy lands? Islam doesn't claim the area is and must remain Muslim?

wildswan म्हणाले...

If you want to simplify the issue right down to basics, Hamas intends to abuse and kill the Jews in Israel if it gains power. Why do you want to help them do that?

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Gusty Winds said...
Bob Boyd asked: "Why is it okay for the Jews to have their own country."

The Mormons got Utah.


That's not what I asked. Sheesh. Read the friggin' comment.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

I know...war, propaganda.

But if even a third of the stuff I've been hearing is true, I'd be going medieval on their Palestinian asses.

Israel has to make a forceful point...

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

@ The Crack Emcee

Finally someone read past the first sentence of my comment. Thankyou.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

Are the Palestinians using American weapons left behind in Afghanistan?

Is anyone in charge asking this question?

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Corrupt Biden admin will pay The Iranian Mullahs to nuke Israel.

Jaq म्हणाले...

Rob Reiner says that it's all because Trump showed classified documents to Iran or something.

https://twitter.com/robreiner/status/1711154899830931915

I am starting to think that Reiner is a Trumper provocateur.

Oligonicella म्हणाले...

“Milley said it’d be cheaper to leave all of our equipment behind in Afghanistan, instead of flying it back."

Then blow them up.

Oligonicella म्हणाले...

Gusty Winds said...
WWII made civilian populations fair game in the art of war. At one time you only killed those in uniform...well...those were the "honorable" rules of war.

You sir, are gas lighting history.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Gusty Winds said...

Bob Boyd asked: "Why is it okay for the Jews to have their own country."

The Mormons got Utah.

Yeah, about that,...

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Gahrie said...

"There's your problem right there...the Palestinians do not have a righteous beef."

It's not my problem, it's theirs. I've got no dog in this fight. I'm listening to competing narratives in a world of lies and liars.

"They were offered a 'house" and refused it, because they wanted theirs and the one belonging to the Jews."

Only you are dumb enough to think being offered a room in your house is a reasonable offer.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Gahrie said...

"The only thing that's speaking loudly is your ignorance of History and Islam."

That is such a dumb conclusion. I don't understand Islam? Me? I'm an atheist and you're claiming I don't feel the threat? You're a moron, Gahrie. I watch a historical documentary every single day.

You really need to stop talking. The fact I know you're a teacher is embarrassing.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Bob Boyd said...
@ The Crack Emcee

"Finally someone read past the first sentence of my comment. Thankyou."

You're welcome. I feel your pain. I've been here a long time. The way people read things can be very, very bizarre. They will literally beat you up over their assumptions.

And they're "the good guys" - that's the scary part.

Oligonicella म्हणाले...

Crack:

I defend your right to think, post and write whatever you want but you do realize that if somehow these fanatics took over this country, you'd be amongst the first rounded up and executed despite your apparent sympathies. Perhaps as ISIS did to those it put in cages and slow roasted over fire.

Why? Because you're atheist. No more, no less.

chickelit म्हणाले...

Festivus should be real interesting this December

JAORE म्हणाले...

"...if someone comes in to your house you can shoot them..."

Yes, but only if they intend to do me harm.

If they kill family members, haul my daughters away, rape them then drag their bodies up and down the cul-de-sac in celebration...

Expect the worst.

Rusty म्हणाले...


Bob Boyd asked: "Why is it okay for the Jews to have their own country."
Ask the British. It was their idea.

Mason G म्हणाले...

"Festivus should be real interesting this December"

Airing of Grievances is, for all intents and purposes, over and Feats of Strength have already begun. What's left?

Free Manure While You Wait! म्हणाले...

"And still, leftists will call, and expect us to believe, Islam the religion of peace."

But it IS the religion of peace...concert mass murder.

Free Manure While You Wait! म्हणाले...

"chickelit said...
Festivus should be real interesting this December"

Looks like the IDF has started the Feats of Strength a little early this year.

Michelle Dulak Thomson म्हणाले...

The Crack Emcee,

Every conservative on this site supports the idea that if someone comes in to your house you can shoot them, but, somehow, they're offended when Hamas strikes back at the people, they think, have entered their house and taken over without their permission.

Let's stipulate that a large proportion of the Palestinians, at least in Gaza, really do believe this. But realize that, in what Palestinians call the "naqba," and Israelis call "the establishment of the State of Israel," about as many Jews fled Arab states as Palestinians fled Israel. It was, IIRC, almost a one-for-one swap.

And yet . . . have you seen Israelis clamoring for the "right of return" to the homes they lost? Of course not. They assumed that those homes were forever lost, and their lives would be, too, if they dared to attempt to come back. They gathered in Israel and built new homes from scratch. The Palestinians OTOH have been in sullen or fierce rivalry, according to the year, ever since. As in, for the last 75-plus years. There can be very few residents of Gaza who even remember the "naqba."

This isn't rebellion; it's psychosis. It's never giving up until every Jew in the Middle East is killed or expelled, so the entire place is comfortably Judenrein. "From the river to the sea," right?

Oh, and the LDS didn't "get" Utah; they got (per Wiki -- I know, I know) 55% of it.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Oligonicella said...

"Crack:

I defend your right to think, post and write whatever you want but you do realize that if somehow these fanatics took over this country, you'd be amongst the first rounded up and executed despite your apparent sympathies."

Good Lord, another person who can't read, thinks I have "sympathies," and then decides to condescend to me. Can you be more stupid, and full of yourself, at the same time? I am on no one's side. I live with enough religious fanatics, in this country, to know how I feel. I keep my mouth shut around Mexican Catholics and Baptist Christians the same way I do NewAge crystal wavers. You're all insane to me. If anything, Jews are more rational than any of you, and that's why I fuck with them, somewhat. But you think I have "sympathies" for the people chanting "Allah Akbar," right? After I've been on this blog for over a decade?

You're a fucking idiot.

"Perhaps as ISIS did to those it put in cages and slow roasted over fire."

You sound like you're masturbating.

"Why? Because you're atheist. No more, no less."

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I had no idea. I thought they worshipped atheists over there. By the way, I served on the U.S.S. Kilauea in the Red Sea during the Iranian hostage crisis. My ship even participated in Jimmy Carter's failed rescue attempt. But you guys keep telling me what this is all about. I really need your help in that regard. Of course, I started this by saying, we live in a world of narratives, and asking you for one that makes more sense than the Palestinian's, and you're failing just as badly as Carter did.

Y'all should really practice more self awareness before you speak.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

"This isn't rebellion; it's psychosis. It's never giving up until every Jew in the Middle East is killed or expelled, so the entire place is comfortably Judenrein. "From the river to the sea," right?"

They should start developing a "peoples car." These things seem to go together.

"Oh, and the LDS didn't "get" Utah; they got (per Wiki -- I know, I know) 55% of it."

I lived there for five years after I left San Francisco. They got it.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Rusty said...

Bob Boyd asked: "Why is it okay for the Jews to have their own country."
Ask the British. It was their idea.

That's not what I asked. For fuck sake.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

"This isn't rebellion; it's psychosis."

That's what I've said, a lot, about Black Lives Matter. But it's a psychosis that's grown from frustration with people not acquiescing even to rational arguments. Decency hitting a brick wall and splattering into something horrible. And there's a lot of blame to go around for that. Attempts to judge without assigning blame to ourselves, or to avoid it all together, are sure to fail and make matters worse.

We're blowing it, Kids.

Oligonicella म्हणाले...

The Crack Emcee said...


Good Lord, another person who can't read, thinks I have "sympathies," and then decides to condescend to me. ... After I've been on this blog for over a decade?


Pardon me for misreading your excuses for Hezbollah atrocities.

Perhaps as ISIS did to those it put in cages and slow roasted over fire.

You sound like you're masturbating.


How? There are videos.

Y'all should really practice more self awareness before you speak.

Now there's a case of the black calling the kettle pot.


10/9/23, 2:59 PM

Gahrie म्हणाले...

The Jewish presence in modern Israel goes back almost 3,000 years. By 800 B.C. two Jewish kingdoms were established in the area, Israel and Judah. The kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians by 700 B.B, and Judah became a vassal state of Assyria and was later then seized by Babylon. The Jews revolted against Babylon. The revolt was crushed and the Jewish people taken into slavery or sent into exile. A generation later, Persia conquered Babylon and let the Jew return to their homeland. the Jews were allowed to self govern and rebuild the Temple as part of the Persian Empire. In the 330's B.C. the area was conquered by Alexander the Great, and upon his death was controlled by various empires. The area eventually was conquered by Rome. In 66 A.D. the Jews began a revolt against Roman rule. By 77 A.D. the second Temple had been destroyed and the Jewish people again enslaved and dispersed. Fifty years later the remaining Jews tried to assert their independence and were again crushed by the Romans. Again the Jewish population was mostly exiled. This is the first time the name Palestine was used to describe the area. There was a small continuous Jewish presence outside of Jerusalem. When the Byzantine Empire split from Rome and became Christian, the Jews began to be persecuted. By 500 A.D. the area was majority Christian. There were periods of Jewish revolt, but the Byzantines retained control of the area. By 640 A.D. the Muslim Arabs arrived and took control of the region. For the next 600 years the area was controlled by a succession of Islamic Empires and became more and more Muslim through a huge decrease in the local population and Arab immigration. Then the Crusades began. Egypt ended up in control of the area when the Crusades finished. In 1561 the Ottoman Empire took control of the area from Egypt. Control of the area bounced back and forth between Egypt and the Ottomans until it was taken from the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War I and given to the British as a mandate by the League of Nations. Jews from the Diaspora began to move back to the area and joined the Jewish population that had never left in the 1880's. This was the birth of the Zionist movement to create a Jewish state in Israel. In 1909 the Jews began building the Tel Aviv. During W.W.I the British issued the Balfour Declaration, expressing support for a Jewish state in Israel. The Arabs began to revolt against Jewish immigration and British rule of the area. The Jews began to form private armies to defend themselves. The League of Nations stated in the mandate given to Britian that there was to be two states, one Jewish and one Arab. Over the next twenty years Jews continued to immigrate and the Arabs continued to protest. In 1939 the British began to restrict Jewish immigration. At the end of WW II, the British were facing armed revolts from both the Jewish and Arab populations. The British tried to negotiate with both sides, but the Jews demanded a two-state solution, and the Arabs demanded the entire area be given to the Arabs. The British punted and turned the issue over to the U.N.. The U.N. decided there should be a Jewish state, an Arab state and that Jerusalem would become an international city. The Jews accepted the deal, the Arabs did not. The mandate fell into chaos with open fighting between the Arabs and Jews. In May of 1948, the Jews founded the state of Israel. The next day Israel was attacked by four Arab countries. Four other Arab countries would pile on. A year later, the fighting stopped. Jordan took control of the Westbank; Egypt took control of Gaza and Israel took control of the rest. 150,000 Arabs remained behind and became Israeli citizens. Israel was admitted to the United Nations shortly afterwards.

There has been a free and independent Israel three times, there has never been a free and independent Palestine.

Rusty म्हणाले...

Bob Boyd said...
'said...

Bob Boyd asked: "Why is it okay for the Jews to have their own country."
Ask the British. It was their idea.

That's not what I asked. For fuck sake.
"get me wrong. I'm not against Israel, and I'm not anti-immigrant, but it's an obvious double standard...isn't it?"
And again. Go look at what the British did after WW1. No. It is not a double standard. In the last rendition of land for peace Israel gave the so called Palestinians the Gaza strip. They gave them their own country with its existing infrastructure. Roads, sewer, water, docks, farms everything. The Palestinians, on taking over, destroyed most of it. The Palestinians aren't a people. The Palestians are a political entity that uses violence to achive their political goals. Their political goals are to siphon as much money as they can from westrn countries while killing as many Israelis as they can.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

'Every conservative on this site supports the idea that if someone comes in to your house you can shoot them, but, somehow, they're offended when Hamas strikes back at the people, they think, have entered their house and taken over without their permission.'

Then form an army, not a gang of raping thugs.

You know, marching drills, uniforms, shitty food...that sort of thing.

And here's the easy part, DON'T TARGET CIVILIANS! DON'T PUT YOUR 'MILITARY' HEADQUARTERS IN THE BASEMENTS OF HOSPITALS.

Then, maybe we could meet in the middle.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

One more thing; Hamas is threatening to execute civilian hostages on live television.

Not exactly the way to promote a 'righteous' cause, or to win hearts and minds.

Dr Weevil म्हणाले...

Oh, look! 'tim in vermont' (8:14am) has a new twist on the lie that Ukraine is selling weapons to Hamas, or to anyone else. He ties it to a nonexistent grain deal: "Not to mention the 'grain deal' which allowed ships full of weapons sold by the rotten regime in Kiev to end up in the Middle East."

Russia unilaterally canceled the Black Sea Grain Initiative almost three months ago, on July 17th. They've been trying to blockade Ukraine since, and have done a lot of damage to port facilities in Odesa and on the Danube, and have hit Romanian territory with several drones while doing so, like the war-criminals they are. However, their blockade has broken down in the last month or so, since Ukraine recaptured their oil platforms and the Russian radar on them, destroyed the Russian radar on the western tip of Crimea, destroyed the Black Sea Fleet headquarters in Sevastapol, destroyed two large ships in drydock there, and forced the BSF to withdraw to ports much further east. Since they did that, 6-8 merchant ships have taken grain and minerals from Ukrainian ports, but there is ZERO evidence that a single weapon has been included.

In any case, there is no reason to believe that Ukraine has sold any military equipment to Hamas or anyone else, as anyone who thinks about it with an open mind knows:

1. They need all the weapons they can get. Zelenskyy has been firing, indicting, and arresting corrupt officials for bribe-taking, and would undoubtedly treat them even worse if they were selling weapons behind his back.

2. Selling them would piss off the providers. Ukraine can't afford to alienate Biden. (By the way, Ukraine is very far from 'the most corrupt nation in the world': it's far less corrupt than Russia, and it's not even the more corrupt of the two countries Ukraine and USA. Of course, not as corrupt as Biden's USA is not a huge compliment.)

3. Every single weapon provided, right down to handguns, has a serial number, and we have auditors in-country keeping an eye on all of them. Remember when 'tim' and his allies were saying "Oh, my God! We have 66 uniformed military in-country! They must be fighting in the front-lines!" No, we have embassy guards and auditors and maybe a few trainers. No NATO combat troops are in the front lines, and Zelenskyy has never asked for them.

4. Why would Hamas spend money on the black market when Iran and the Taliban gladly supply them with all they want for free, paid for by Biden's $6,000,000,000? The Russians are also supplying American equipment captured in Ukraine, specifically so they can pretend the Ukrainians are selling it. 'tim' is, as usual, repeating warmed-over Russian propaganda passed on by shills like ZeroHedge and Kim DottCom.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Oligonicella said...

"Pardon me for misreading your excuses for Hezbollah atrocities."

You guys are gonna accuse anybody who doesn't parrot 19th century talk about "savages" and "monsters" of supporting Hamas. Sorry, but I see human beings, and realize that they do things based on incentives. Many of them moral and ethical. I don't hear Americans talking about ethics very much - we made Deepak Chopra a millionaire - so you have to excuse me if I don't pay much attention to the bullshit being spit out.

Rusty said...

Bob Boyd asked: "Why is it okay for the Jews to have their own country."
Ask the British. It was their idea.

Now you might be getting to the crux of the issue. If the people living there never thought the British had the right to do anything (and even Roosevelt didn't think they did) then the clear problem, to Arabs, is in thinking what the Brits did is legit.

I still can't wrap my head around holding a rave in a war zone.

The Crack Emcee म्हणाले...

Joe Smith said...
One more thing; Hamas is threatening to execute civilian hostages on live television.

Not exactly the way to promote a 'righteous' cause, or to win hearts and minds.


Statements like this don't make sense to me. This is a war. It expresses all kinds of things, including hatred. Hatred because someone ignored a righteous cause.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

@ Rusty

I appreciate your respectful and knowledgeable reply to my comment, but you still didn't get my point, a small point, a narrow point, a point hardly worth all this fuss. I take full responsibility for that. Clearly my initial comment was so poorly written that nobody could understand it. Apologies for any confusion I created. Let me try again.

Some people (not you Rusty), center-left liberals mostly, will defend Israel's right to exist, the right of the Jews to have a Jewish homeland, a place for the Jewish people both ethnically and culturally. And that's fine, that's great. But those same liberals will react with horror if a Swede says "Sweden for the Swedes". If Frenchman says, "I'm proud of our French culture, our history and our nation and want them preserved and I am afraid this flood of immigration will sweep those things away" these liberals will call that Frenchman a far-right nationalist extremist and a white supremacist. If a Brit says immigrants must assimilate to British culture, not change it, these liberals will call for him to be silenced and punished in the name of multiculturalism and diversity.
I do not see these liberals calling for multiculturalism and diversity in Israel. Quite the contrary. They're willing to go to war to preserve Israel as a homeland for the Jews. That's the double standard I am pointing out. It's not a double standard conservatives are guilty of and judging by the Harvard Statement, it's not a double standard the far-left is guilty of anymore either.
Which way will the center left go now? They can't stay where they are much longer.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

'Statements like this don't make sense to me. This is a war. It expresses all kinds of things, including hatred. Hatred because someone ignored a righteous cause.'

I think you're a very smart guy.

But this sounds like you are excusing barbaric behavior.

Yes, war is barbaric, but we've laid a semblance of civility and rules on top of it.

If you don't agree with rules, then you'd condone Nazi experiments on children.

And I don't think you would. So you do agree to some rules.

Call out the guys who break them.