This is a question sent to the NYT work advice editor Roxane Gay by a man who calls himself "a queer person of relative privilege (white, gay, male, senior in the organization)."
The column is titled "It’s Not OK to Police Co-Workers’ Pronouns/Even if you think they’re using their identities for personal branding."
You might mistake "Ella" for the Hispanic colleague's name, but you can tell from the context that it's the Spanish pronoun "ella." That is, she's using the convention of announcing your pronouns to announce her ethnic identity.
The man wrote in, all sensitive, as though he's going to defend the "space" that he sees as belonging to queer and trans people, but he gets he told he's the one transgressing. Gay advises the letter writer to do "some deep, thoughtful reading about intersectionality" and figure out why this bothers him so much, "why you feel you should dictate how someone else uses their pronouns and why you assume that for queer and transgender people, their pronouns represent their most basic identity."
४४ टिप्पण्या:
I don’t understand how I own what other people call me? I own my name. But I don’t use gendered pronouns on myself - other people do that. That’s their choice based on the context they detect. And other than my best friends when we play golf and I leave a putt short, I’ve never been misgendered - not that care.
figure out why this bothers him so much, "why you feel you should dictate how someone else uses their pronouns and why you assume that for queer and transgender people, their pronouns represent their most basic identity."
Keep that up and we'll be done with this nonsense in no time.
My pronouns are colonizer/colonist.
My reaction: "Hay bendito", also known as the Yiddish “Oy Vey”.
"Ella" stands accused of Filling two boxes with one stone... Drawing outside the lines... Ethnic privilege.
What's the saying? Comedy is easy, Equity is hard.
These people need to stop smelling their own farts. I wonder how much of this is because of the emphasis on self-esteem in school. Self-esteem is all well and good, but it needs to be earned. Too many people think that just existing is enough. Maybe they need to spend some time in nature to realize just how small we really are to put things into perspective.
I disagree. I think that
a) The fucking nancy-boy should file a complaint with HR and see just how spun-up he can get everybody. Maybe someone will get fired!
b) As usual, this letter was written by Roxane Gay or an associate.
Some people have way too much fucking time on their hands : )
I love it when the libs destroy each other...
"Ella" features prominently in the NYC PR reggaeton culture.
"Ella" is a master stroke, come to think of it.
....and why you assume that for queer and transgender people, their pronouns represent their most basic identity
...and why you assume that anyone thinks that their sexual practices or preferences should be worn on their chest like a personal decoration. I like mustard and ketchup on my hamburgers, but the only time I display that is when the stuff has dripped onto my shirt.
- Krumhorn
If you can police other people’s pronoun, then they can define yours too. I suspect that is the NYT point, but I give it 6 months. What matters is who is policing, see Merrick Garland.
“Ella” is the answer to “Ese”, the California / Chicano version.
Whereas “Ella” is the matriarchal icon, “Ese” is the predator.
Has Roxane Gay ever had a real job?
Forget 'A-ya,' I would just call her 'Ella' as in Fitzgerald : )
Remember the slippery slope I posted? This is on the list.
Pro-noun police. Only in progressive totalitarian nightmare-land is that a thing.
"why you feel you should dictate how someone else uses their pronouns and why you assume that for queer and transgender people, their pronouns represent their most basic identity"
Well, he feels that way because it is the point of prog identity politics.
There is only one solution to this idiocy- when pressured for your pronouns, the proper response is, "Fuck off with your nonsense." Also, when corrected for using the "wrong" pronoun, "Fuck off with your nonsense" also works.
It will take courage to start to do this, but someone has to be the first mover in corporate America.
I've been told that others MUST use my personal pronouns and to ignore them is hate speech. Now, the pronoun-police say some pronouns are more equal than other pronouns and to use the deprecated pronouns of the pronoun-police is now hate speech. Maybe it's the pronoun-police who are the hate speechers? Then, the cry should be "Defund the pronoun-police!"
Cin/Der/Ella
Didn't some guy get in big trouble for listing his pronouns (when required to do so) as "Your Most Royal Highness/Your Excellency/Sire" or something to that effect?
"This is an appropriation of a space that queer and trans people won so their most basic identity could be appropriately recognized at work."
"Basic identity at work"? I guess "Tom" or "Carol" is out of the question, then?
"Queer and trans people"? Who at work gives a shit who they sleep with or what is (or isn't) in their pants? Is everybody fucking nuts anymore?
On the plus side, whoever ends up taking the country over will shut this crap down right away.
The transgender spectrum includes homosexuals or cisgendered (same sexual) socially distance through culturally appropriated retronyms and political congruence ("=").
My neighbor says her preferred pronouns are "She" and "It".
Hey Yancey Ward has the right idea. If you are going to be required to use the "correct" pronouns for every LGBTQ person in the organization and you are a straight female or male why the heck do you not have the right to "your" pronouns? It's of course horse hockey all the way down.
Personally at 6"5 and 200 pounds in my college athletic days nobody ever suggested that I was anything but a "cis" heterosexual male. Pronouns directed at me were usually "He' or "him" with an occasional "jerk" thrown in. As I said people's mileage may and will vary.
"What are your pronouns?"
"Who, me?"
"Thank you. NEXT...!"
In LGBTQ... does the "B" stand for "bullies"? It often seems so.
As with cells dividing during mitosis, the left must divide into different visions of reality. Those who are mostly on board with the human status quo will be the centrists and center-right of tomorrow.
Welcome all the "she, her" people into your tribe. Peer pressure is a b*tch among the young, and "she, her" likely doesn't want any of this. As a so-called "female," ella may someday be impregnated by a "male" with a "penis" that transmits "semen" and pop out a new human too.
I still don't understand how Personal pronouns" work. I mean, in the sense of talking to someone. If I am talking to you, the only pronoun I need is "you." Your "pronouns" always involve me talking about you to some third person. And that problem can be entirely eliminated by just using the person's surname only. E.g., "Johnson's essay is splendid, and Johnson ought to get an 'A' for it." This approach also avoids having to decide whether to call Johnson "Rick" or "Mimi."
I'd recommend using this method for all students, of course. No one ought to be singled out. Make it impregnable.
I still don't understand how "personal pronouns" work. I mean, in the sense of talking to someone. If I am talking to you, the only pronouns I need are "you" and "me" and "I" and "we" and "us." Your "pronouns" always involve me talking about you to some third person. And that problem can be entirely eliminated by just using the person's surname only. E.g., "Johnson's essay is splendid, and Johnson ought to get an 'A' for it." This approach also avoids having to decide whether to call Johnson "Rick" or "Mimi."
I'd recommend using this method for all students, of course. No one ought to be singled out. Make it impregnable. But this entirely eliminates the need for xe/xir and all the other multifarious variations.
We are a lost society if we have to dither about our basic grammar. If we can’t refer to someone as what we see with our own eyes, we’ll not be allowed to tell the truth about anything. This has to be fought against with all we have… bravo to Ella.
Michael said...
“In LGBTQ... does the "B" stand for "bullies"?“
Beer.
Liberty, Guns, Beer, and (ahem) *Tacos*. I have heard the Q is for Quiche. But that seems just a bit odd to me.
Ack. I had amended that. If I am talking to you, the pronouns I need are "you," "me," "I," "us," and "we." Not "xe" or "xir" or any of the other multifarious variations.
I ought to add that you might run into trouble if there is more than one Johnson in your class. There you might have to designate them as "Johnson 1" and "Johnson 2," or some such. My mom spent some time in an actual one-room schoolhouse in WI, where there was another student with her name in the same grade. So she started adding her middle name, to differentiate.
It is a pronoun
There is, actually, a potentially good reason for stating your pronouns at work. I work from home, for a an organization with employees all around the world. We communicate all the time by e-mail. Many of these people have names that do not give any indication, to me, of their sex. But from time to time, I find myself in a video meeting, suddenly realizing that I am about to refer to one of these people in the third person, and I have no idea what pronoun to use.
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...
"You might run into trouble if there is more than one Johnson in your class."
Mr Johnson is right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NaQxUEfxt0
When Biden gets us into WW3 I hope the other guys win.
If she leads even partially a Spanish-speaking life, then "ella" IS one of her pronouns. What an idiotic complaint.
Mr Johnson is right
I'm Agent Johnson, this is Special Agent Johnson. No relation.
This question is so boomer.
The topic, question, and response are all surreal.
"And other than my best friends when we play golf and I leave a putt short, I’ve never been misgendered".....funny stuff in the leadoff position.
Of course, I have misgendered myself for the same reason...
when pressured for your pronouns, the proper response is, "Fuck off with your nonsense."
That might work anywhere but academia. My daughter asked what she should do with the inevitable "pronoun" question that would come up in introductions for her freshman year of college.
I told her to respond with "she/her , for today, at least". For those on one side it's a sign of potentially questioning her gender and therefore part of the "tribe", for those on the other side it's a sign that the question is stupid.
She's young though, didn't have that level of courage, so she just said she/her. Still probably the safe bet.
Can a person choose no pronouns? Easy to remember. Just use the name, repeatedly if necessary.
"RMc said...
"What are your pronouns?"
"Who, me?""
That would work great for Idiocracy's Not Sure
Change your pronouns daily.
Complain, threaten with reporting to HR, when the wrong (for that day) pronouns are used.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Madness, of course, but within the rules as they have been explained to me.
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