"... reveal a politically engaged swath of American Jewry who are reaching a breaking point. They have long opposed the Israeli government’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, supported a two-state solution and protested the right-wing government of Benjamin Netanyahu.
But in the Hamas attacks, many saw an existential threat, evoking memories of the Holocaust and generations of antisemitism, and provoking anxiety about whether they could face attacks in the United States. And they were taken aback to discover that many of their ideological allies not only failed to perceive the same threats but also saw them as oppressors deserving of blame.... Some Jews see their safety as precarious, but some of their allies focus on their privilege. By contrast, many progressive activists have long expressed an affinity and identification with Palestinians, viewing them as a minority group whose plight is ignored or dismissed by those with more power.... [Boaz Munro, grandson of Holocaust survivors, said that in the 'racial discourse'] Jews end up in the top of the hierarchy.... You’re white. You access whiteness.'"
Oddly tucked away inside this discussion is something about Kamala Harris:
Two days after somberly standing behind Mr. Biden in the White House as he denounced the attack as “sheer evil,” Vice President Kamala Harris spoke on Oct. 12 to an auditorium filled with Latino and Black students at the College of Southern Nevada in Las Vegas, as part of a fall tour focusing on young voters of color. For nearly an hour, she addressed pressing concerns such as climate change and student loans and offered a passionate defense of diversity, equity and inclusion efforts. She made no mention of the attack in Israel.
पोस्ट्स
८१ टिप्पण्या:
That is a bizarre inclusion of what Harris is doing. NYTimes continues to prop her up.
As someone -- maybe quite a few someones -- once said, "Reality is a bitch!"
Was the moral preening juice was worth the itchy squeeze for those American Jews who chose to lay down with the leftist dogs?
“Oddly tucked away inside this discussion is something about Kamala Harris”
That’s the NYT for you: a gaggle of odd tuckers.
Who's whiter, Palestinians or Jews?
"They have long opposed the Israeli government’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza,...But...were taken aback to discover that many of their ideological allies,...saw them as oppressors deserving of blame..."
You can't have it both ways, saying the Israeli government has been oppressing people for 75 years AND then lying the Hamas attack was "unprovoked."
"In the Hamas attacks, many saw an existential threat, evoking memories of the Holocaust and generations of antisemitism, and provoking anxiety about whether they could face attacks in the United States."
Sorry, but I don't let fear - yours or mine - make my decisions. Cowardly decisions are bad decisions. Do you like black dudes do: grab your nuts and stand your ground, defending right from wrong. That's the only way you're going to be respected.
"They were taken aback to discover that many of their ideological allies not only failed to perceive the same threats but also saw them as oppressors deserving of blame.... "
Not everybody scares easy. And you shouldn't try to hold everybody to the level of the fearful. It's not healthy. And when you're calling an attack "unprovoked" - when it's clearly not - it's hard to feel like you're doing anything but trying to manipulate people.
"Many progressive activists have long expressed an affinity and identification with Palestinians, viewing them as a minority group whose plight is ignored or dismissed by those with more power...."
That's clearly what they are. The response from many white people, even here, could make anyone think colonialism never ended.
"Kamala Harris,... made no mention of the attack in Israel."
Kamala Harris dated Montel Williams: I'd be shocked if she could find the U.S. on a map.
The New York Times does not know that Israeli occupation of Gaza ended almost 20 years ago?
Ms. Irrelevant mentioned in an irrelevant way. Would that it were true that Kamala Harris were actually irrelevant.
@gongtao: The New York Times does not know that Israeli occupation of Gaza ended almost 20 years ago?
Neither does Crack.
Two comments:
1) Kamala was speaking to her crowd. Why spoil the good feelings by bringing up that Hamas are terrorist thugs?
2) Liberal/progressive Jews are having a 'come to Jesus' moment, if I can put it that way. I have friends and relatives who have always thought I was way out there somewhere on the right. They're sounding more like me suddenly. One wonders if it'll last, or if it's just a momentary thing before their progressivism kicks in again and they rationalize the beheadings, rapings, burnings, kidnappings like much of our media, academia, and some Congresspeople seem to have done.
Two comments:
1) Kamala was speaking to her crowd. Why spoil the good feelings by bringing up that Hamas are terrorist thugs?
2) Liberal/progressive Jews are having a 'come to Jesus' moment, if I can put it that way. I have friends and relatives who have always thought I was way out there somewhere on the right. They're sounding more like me suddenly. One wonders if it'll last, or if it's just a momentary thing before their progressivism kicks in again and they rationalize the beheadings, rapings, burnings, kidnappings like much of our media, academia, and some Congresspeople seem to have done.
Do you like black dudes do: grab your nuts and stand your ground, defending right from wrong. That's the only way you're going to be respected.
OK. But no one except a handful of crazed people has ever wanted to wipe black people off the face of the earth, and certainly today there is no room in the "community of nations" for any group expressing that aim. But there is a whole lot of Islam that has that stated goal with regard to Jews (and other infidels, but Jews first - and it's been my understanding, in the Iberian peninsula and elsewhere, that Islamists of that stripe back in the day were willing to accept Christian converts to Islam; if that's still true of Christians today, it certainly is never mentioned as a path to Jews' saving their own lives).
"Jewish leaders and voters said they were taken aback to discover that many of their ideological allies saw them as oppressors who deserved blame following the Israel attacks"
I'm taken aback that they were taken aback. Were they not paying attention? The left hates you. Even I knew that and I don't have any skin in the game.
The left only supports itself.
It creates then exploits identity groups.
You have to ask the scorpion how it works...the frog is no longer with us.
Jamie said...
"There is a whole lot of Islam that has that stated goal with regard to Jews (and other infidels, but Jews first - and it's been my understanding, in the Iberian peninsula and elsewhere, that Islamists of that stripe back in the day were willing to accept Christian converts to Islam; if that's still true of Christians today, it certainly is never mentioned as a path to Jews' saving their own lives)."
All the more reason to get out of there: so we can nuke 'em.
Kamala Harris’ husband is Jewish. I can’t link easily on my phone but google ‘ Second family becomes first to affix a mezuzah on executive home’ for a primer.
"reaching a breaking point"
Does feel that way, and not just for the "politically engaged swath of American Jewry." I think it's more that this was just the step-too-far that, like the one-more-handout that gave rise to the Tea Party in 2010, has set off shock waves that are spreading. Ruy Teixeira wrote a piece about how the uber-lefties' crazy embrace of Hamas' atrocities shows it's time for the Dems to toss the intersectional left under the bus. Sounds right to me for many reasons, the pragmatic political one he focuses on being the least important.
Crack: Hamas/Palestinians should stand their ground. Be brave Hamas. Moving is impossible.
Also Crack: The Jews should leave. The neighbors don't like you, why would you stay. Moving is easy.
Of course based on all the (WTF) "truths" being spouted, I can't expect consistency.
Now comes the "I know more than anyone because of my life events" wailing. Historical accuracy be damned.
Jews face a choice: be left, or live?
For us deplorables, it is a told-you-so moment. But in the end, what the left and the Muslims want to do to the Jews, they want to do to the rest of us. We, too, face a choice.
When the rubber meets the road, American Jews aren't willing to continue embracing Woke idealogy -- specifically, the belief in "oppressors/oppressed" as key to understanding all of societal interaction.
Will this be the final straw that drives American Jews back to the GOP?
"By contrast, many progressive activists have long expressed an affinity and identification with Palestinians, viewing them as a minority group whose plight is ignored or dismissed by those with more power...."
Yeah, right. Now do the Armenians.
I've often thought Kamala should make more of her marriage to a Jew in an effort to decrease hostility to Jews among Blacks. If she was interested in such a thing.
The old joke told by the great Charles K - "Jews vote like Puerto Ricans and earn like Episcopalians".
Kamala (nothing serious) Harris. Tee Hee
They have long opposed the Israeli government’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, supported a two-state solution
=====
is there any agreement / consensus on what is two-state solution?
to me looks like we need one in Gaza and one in WestBank?
maximize international charity and virtue.
I have wondered if this will break the liberal Jewish community. We know so many Jewish Democrat and Harvard backers, with big money.
I suspect a few might crow then keep the money flowing. Donald Trump is just too weird, even though with the Democrats Jews will have to share a tent with people of a religion with a priority of seeing every Jew is dead...
Can we hurry up and just get to the Rapture already? I'm pretty sure I've got a seat with the 144,000.
They had to listen to Harris for "nearly an hour"? Jeez.....
The Times could have saved a lot of ink and pixels but simply stating, "Bibi was right."
(And so is Trump...).
JAORE said...
"Crack: Hamas/Palestinians should stand their ground. Be brave Hamas. Moving is impossible."
Some of you have a serious reading comprehension problem. Or you're just making things up.
"Also Crack: The Jews should leave. The neighbors don't like you, why would you stay. Moving is easy."
I think this goes a little beyond "The neighbors don't like you"
"Of course based on all the (WTF) "truths" being spouted, I can't expect consistency."
Not when you can't read or understand what you read.
"Now comes the "I know more than anyone because of my life events" wailing. Historical accuracy be damned."
All I've been doing since the attack by Hamas is reading the history of that area, and you just can't seem to accept that you've been fed a bunch of lies. I can.
They have long opposed the Israeli government’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza
Israel has been out of the West Bank and Gaza for many years.
It's weird they were caught off guard their fellow Marxists hated The Juice.
Wasnt exactly a secret.
Border still wide open?
good.
Hey Skipper said...
@gongtao: The New York Times does not know that Israeli occupation of Gaza ended almost 20 years ago?
Neither does Crack.
Israel just controls the water and the power and the food and who can get in and out, and they built checkpoints all over the place and they put a wall around it. But the direct occupation ended.
Because they don't want to control anybody's lives.
It seems the only people more clueless are the Queers for Palestine.
Progressives to Progressive Jews, "You fucked up. You trusted us,"
Que*mala Harris!
I highly suggest all of you listen to this conversation. This man, Miko Peled, is an author and the son of an Israeli General who also signed the declaration of independence for Israel. He knows this whole story inside out. He's had relatives killed by the Arabs, and he still says the Zionists are wrong. His father's also had a change of heart. If you can listen to him, and still think the Israelis are correct, fine. But at least challenge yourself. At least challenge what you think you know against what someone's actual life experience, there, is.
Someone who isn't spinning a narrative.
"Now comes the "I know more than anyone because of my life events" wailing. Historical accuracy be damned."
That really is a special kind of stupid. And in a way, almost transcendent.
A two state solution will not work after the Jews took all the good land from it's owners.
hey have long opposed the Israeli government’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza,
The Jews left Gaza in 2005.
Kamala Harris’ husband is Jewish.
=======
do we know where he stands on Hamas/Israel?
All the more reason to get out of there: so we can nuke 'em.
Come on, man. I give you the benefit of the doubt that you're arguing in good faith. Can you do the same for me?
Narayanan - Good point.
IMO, Israel gets all of what they want, and the left-outs (I don't really know what to call them at this point) get sent to some other country, or an island in the world is converted into a new country. Could be named hell hole. Or disfunction nation.
"evoking memories of the Holocaust and generations of antisemitism, and provoking anxiety about whether they could face attacks in the United States"
Jew-hatred is baked-into-the-Islamic-cake. It is so express in their Qur'an that to miss it meant you were reading that book in total darkness. As the world witnessed two weeks ago, Muslims will happily repeat the Holocaust.
The Muzzies tell the world that they want to kill us all because we're not Muslim. "But our Muslim neighbors are so nice." Maybe so, but that is entirely irrelevant. What matters is what their Islamic books tell me, and what Big Mo did, especially what Big Mo did to the Jews.
629AD,
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Battle-of-Khaybar
Many Western Jews have liberalism, even radicalism, as their actual religion. It is still puzzling to them that radicals see them as something other than co-religionists.
It has been puzzling them for decades. Nothing seems to penetrate the illusion. How can this be? How can they not see? Hey! Hey! It's US!
Most grimly, one can see it in how quickly the meaning of the phrase "Never again" changed from some idea of self-defense and preventing genocide to the idea "Never again will we vote for anyone right of center." I think that amazing reversal was already strong in my northeastern city when I was at the October Moratorium in 1969. Amazing evidence of leftist propaganda succeeding largely because it was considered fashionable.
Europe (as a whole)—or, if you prefer, the West as a whole—is responsible for starting the Israeli-Palestinian conflict* and should therefore be responsible for ending it.
What would that require? Two things: first, acknowledging its responsibility for putting these two peoples in an impossible situation that they are incapable of escaping by themselves; and second, agreeing to financially compensate the Palestinian people for the losses they have suffered in blood and treasure as a consequence of that conflict.
The payment of so-called "blood money" is recognized in Arab and Islamic culture as an honorable way, in fact the only acceptable way, to end intertribal conflicts of this nature. It is a civilized institution.
How much compensation? That would be for the Palestinians to decide, but in any case payable over a period of decades or more, continuance would be conditional upon Palestinians honoring the terms of whatever final peace settlement the two sides can work out.
*It was not only violent anti-semitism that drove the Jews out of Europe, which everyone knows about, but also European statesmen (English, French, Italian, Russian, American) who in the course of the First World War decided to solve their "Jewish problem" by giving someone else's land away. See "The Palestinian Question: 1914-1918" for the secret diplomatic negotiations (as revealed in declassified documents in the archives of the British Foreign Office) leading up to the Balfour Declaration and its inclusion in the Treaty of Versailles. It is not a pretty picture.
I bring this up now because it seems like the right moment to do so. For if implemented, it would not only end an otherwise intractable conflict, but it would go down as a landmark in the history of international relations, in which principles of reason and justice replace force and fraud as the only acceptable way to end conflicts of this kind.
I'm an old man now, having pondered these issues the history behind them for more than half a century now. I hope some of Ann's more influential readers, or perhaps Ann herself, will take up the challenge of spreading this argument. Assuming of course that they agree with it in the main.
Progressive Jews will destroy Israel just like Progressives will destroy America. Both groups will be astonished at the unanticipated consequences.
--- They're sounding more like me suddenly. One wonders if it'll last, or if it's just a momentary thing before their progressivism kicks in again and they rationalize the beheadings,... [Temujin]
We are at a clarifying moment. And, if so, that means more, possibly a lot more, is coming.
You will know it is in full flood when they agree with you and ask how you came to change your thinking.
Jamie said...
All the more reason to get out of there: so we can nuke 'em.
Come on, man. I give you the benefit of the doubt that you're arguing in good faith. Can you do the same for me?
It was a joke - dark humor. You know I respect you.
Israel has not occupied any part of Palestine -- Gaza or West Bank -- since 2004/2005. However, when Gazans and W. Bankers talk about their land occupied by Israel, they mean the whole of Israel. The Palestinians/Gazans/W.Bankers/Arabs and whatever simply want Israelis not just gone but dead.
So, Kamala didn't mention Israel enough.
Sounds familiar. Those who didn't clap hard enough for Comrade Stalin got sent to the Gulag. After all, why would you give Our Glorious Leader's speech only 10 standing O's when everyone else gave them 11? Only a wrecker or counter-revolutionary would do that.
And so if Kam didn't speak out in favor of Israel at a meeting, and didn't cry enough over the victims, that can only mean one thing. She's an enemy of the Jewish People.
Eerie how similar the thought patterns are. Who'd have thunk it in the Good ol' US of A?
"The first generation of Israeli leaders spoke a totally different, honest language. They openly confessed that their claim to the land of Palestine could not be grounded in some universal justice."
Passing Wind said...
"Can we hurry up and just get to the Rapture already? I'm pretty sure I've got a seat with the 144,000."
Based on your posts here, I doubt you are part of the remnant.
"Israel just controls the water and the power and the food and who can get in and out, and they built checkpoints all over the place and they put a wall around it. But the direct occupation ended."
So what yor're telling me is that, after all the international money that has been sent to the people of Gaza by international aid organizations, they still have to rely on Israel for their water and electricity. And Israel provided it to them.
Where did all the aid go? Billions of dollars. Why aren't they more self sufficient? They were given a Gaza where everything worked.
Interesting discussion in the comments here.
Jews need to realize that they're voting on whether to have another Holocaust or not.
Joe Biden is literally funding Hamas, the terrorists. He just asked the Congress to borrow $100 million more for them. Oh sure, yes yes ... they'll be the first to condemn when the money ends up buying bullets instead of olive oil. Nobody buys that bullsh|t.
The President of the United States and his Democrat Party accolytes in Congress are literally funding your mortal enemy. Pay no attention to the Pope behind the curtain.
So keep voting for them. Buy your own nooses. You're going to find out when it starts as we all stand around watching you people get gassed that our patience for warning you expired around October 2023. We're just going to shrug our shoulders as you're loaded onto the trains.
Not like we didn't predict it and give you lots of advanced warning. Good luck to you all.
It isn't surprising that American Jews as a group are less supportive of Israel than the survivors of the genocide of European Judaism. FDR sent Japanese-Americans to camps, not Jewish-Americans.
But I (a Goy) grew up in a community with a large (say 33.33%) Jewish minority, and (in the 1950's) almost all my Jewish friends had relatives living with them who had escaped or (in a few cases) survived the Holocaust.
That's all decades ago. But the Jews are right to hold onto their little corner of the Middle East, the little corner of democracy, of liberalism. Does ANY sentient person think that things would be better if the "Other Side" took over?
Daniel Pearl didn't teach these leftis Jewish folks. What make you think this will??? They will gladly sell Hamas the hanging rope. It's both pathetic and inevitable.
The Grandson of holocaust survivors.
Good grief. Do people understand the meaning of "Holcaust Survivor"? It doesn't mean just someone who survived a nazi death camp. It means any Jew who lived in ANY country occupied or Allied to Nazi Germany from 1933-45.
So, if your Jews Grandparents lived in Holland and came to the USA in 1935, they are HOLOCAUST Survivors. Lived in Poland but went to Israel in 1938, Holocaust survivor. Left Austria the second Hitler took over in 1938, Holocaust survivor. Lived in the USSR in Sibera during WW II, Holocaust Survivor.
And to care whether someone is the Grandson of someone who had an experience 78 years ago is insane. Its as if I was calling myself "The Grandson of WW I Vet". And starting every conversation with "As the Grandson of WW I vet who fought at the Meuse Argonne..."
All around Gaza are Arab countries which are becoming prosperous including Jordan which was the largest part of the Ottoman entity called Palestine. Inside Israel is a large group of Arabs, 20% of the country who, as a whole, are the most prosperous group of Arabs in the region. They are represented in the Israeli legislature. Then there's Gaza, whose people are poor, ignorant, living on handouts, despised by their neighbors and led by Hamas. Hamas likes to blame Israel for the mess Gaza is in. But I think that the kind of leadership you'd get from a group which lives to destroy explains Gaza.
At some point in most conflicts with people of bad faith, the liberal approach of seeing your opponent's point of view breaks down because they will never ever see your point of view. That's the existential crisis liberal Jews are confronting at this time.
Crack's deep belief that Jews should be held to a higher standard of behavior than other humans in order for the state of Israel to be worthy of existence is flattering but not appropriate when considering the larger picture of the realities of life in Arab countries and Muslim intolerance in general. Does he believe that Arab countries and Muslim majority countries, the Organization of Islamic Conference, are paragons of human rights?
@Crack: Israel just controls the water and the power and the food and who can get in and out, and they built checkpoints all over the place and they put a wall around it. But the direct occupation ended.
Because they don't want to control anybody's lives.
You have described the “what”. What you are leaving out is”why”.
Why is it in Israel’s interest to exert all that control over Gaza?
*It was not only violent anti-semitism that drove the Jews out of Europe, which everyone knows about, but also European statesmen (English, French, Italian, Russian, American) who in the course of the First World War decided to solve their "Jewish problem" by giving someone else's land away. See "The Palestinian Question: 1914-1918" for the secret diplomatic negotiations (as revealed in declassified documents in the archives of the British Foreign Office) leading up to the Balfour Declaration and its inclusion in the Treaty of Versailles. It is not a pretty picture.
The collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI resulted in a few shifts of people. The Greeks were expelled from Turkey. The Balfour Declaration was a promise to restore the Jews homeland from which they had been expelled by the Romans long before Mohamed. Originally, the Jewish diaspora included the Arabian peninsula but mostly they sought to return to their historic Homeland, Now Israel. The Arabs, there were no "Palestinians," had defeated the Turks with British help in WWI but, when they tried to rule Damascus, they failed and most returned to the desert. What is now Israel was also desert. The Jews have made it a thriving oasis and industrial power. If the Arabs took over, it would return to desert. Name a successful Arab state.
For years I've told my left-leaning Jewish friends to watch Die Hard if they never have, or to remember, if they have, the scene when the toady Ellis confronts Hans Gruber: "Hans, bubble," he says, "I'm your white knight."
And a minute later Hans shoots him in the forehead.
Ellis is liberal Jews. Hans is reality for Jews. That this became so apparent so quickly--like a bullet--must be tough for all these useful idiots.
Sam Harris X Eric Weinstein: Israel-Palestine
The big issue in the Mid East is what kind of Muslim clique is going to run each of the major countries, its still largely the Sunni Arabs vs the Shiite Iranians, but there is cross support when it serves a purpose, Christians are long gone. just a few without power. Israel/Palestine is a novelty act, a side show, its where the Jews are. But it takes up all the bandwidth because the Jews were horribly treated in Europe and in the Muslim/Ottoman world, about everywhere they went.
If 75 years of paying Palestine money to attack Israel and paying Israel money for defense (or vice versa if your view is different) has not worked then this tiny fingernail clipping of the world is just too much trouble.
If I were Israeli I would say that if I got fully absorbed into Europe or America I would be powerless to future pogroms. If Palestinian I would say I want my Great Grandfathers olive grove back.
If the Palestinians would agree to a cash buyout for the olive groves, that would work, as Luke Lea proposes. I don't see that in Palestinian psychology myself, and they are useful tools for Iran and others, and then Hezbollah would still be there. But after they got paid, justly, where would they go. Their tragic journey has turned them into a people that no one can stand to have around. That may be prejudicial, but no one is waiting in line to take them, they are too domineering politically. They can't go to Iran because they are Sunni. So I really don't know. I would say they could go to Bolivia or Uruguay for example, and buy land, but in 10 years they would be taking it over and declaring Sharia law.
It wasn't liberal Americans and Israelis who directly and purposely funded Hamas, it was Bibi Netanyahu to the tune of $500-Million between 2012 and 2018. Plus another half a Billion Bibi sent for humanitarian aid to Gaza.
Plenty of blame to go around, but now's not the time to cry about spilled milk.
All these distractions and one up man ship gives aid and comfort to the terrorists to the mullahs and to Vlad.
I access humanity.
Everyone knows that the orc army always eventually turns on you, but that doesn't seem to stop people from creating orc armies.
Certainly the university presidents who are suddenly horrified that a frightening number of their faculty and students think that the murder and rape of Jews isn't such a bad thing didn't ever expect that the orc army they had been nurturing would see them as potential prey.
After all, the orc army was useful in intimidating people who disagreed with their political agenda, part of which was the means by which the people who now occupy the power hierarchy got their positions (i.e., replacing merit with identity).
A two state solution will not work after the Jews took all the good land from it's owners.
Its Owners??
From the U.S. Library of Congress:
"Inhabited since at least the 15th century B.C., Gaza has been dominated by many different peoples and empires throughout its history. In the early 16th century, it was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire. During World War I, it fell to the British forces and became part of the British Mandate of Palestine. Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, Egypt administered the newly formed Gaza Strip. It was captured by Israel in the Six-Day War in 1967. Between 1994 and 1999, Israel transferred security and civilian responsibility for much of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank to the Palestinian Authority.
In late 2005, Israel withdrew all of its settlers and soldiers and dismantled its military facilities in the Gaza Strip, but continues to control maritime, airspace, and other access. In early 2006, the Islamic Resistance Movement, HAMAS, won the Palestinian Legislative Council election and took control of the PA government."
So since the 16th century, it has belonged to Turkey (Ottomans), Britain, Egypt, and Israel following a failed war brought by Egypt. Only since 1994 at the earliest did civilian authority and security get transferred, voluntarily by Israel, to the Palestinian Authority. You can contend that Israel is not the rightful owner, but you cannot seriously argue that the Palestinians have a better claim.
Indeed, if you go back further in time, Gaza had a diverse population of Greeks, Romans, Jews, Egyptians, Persians and Nabateans. Anyone see who is missing from this equation? Heck, Islam did not originate until 610 AD, so if we want to go by who the "original owners" of any particular piece of land were, Muslims would own nothing.
Somewhat up thread mentioned the Ottoman Empires and the shifting of populations. Isn't that the real solution to the Arab v. Israeli conflict. Why not simply resettle all the jews in Cyprus?
Its an island, so cyprus-israel would have no antisemitic neighbors. Its Greek Truk population could be bought out for a fraction of the Zillions of dollars we give to Israel every year. And they could be transfered to Greece and Turkey.
Another possible "new israel" would be south Africa. Capetown would be a perfect place to resettle the Jews. Or perhaps Texas, lots of "Christian Zionists" in Texas. George Bushes Ranch would make an excellent new home for Bebe. I'm sure George - Mr. Christian Globalist - would agree with that.
Somewhat up thread mentioned the Ottoman Empires and the shifting of populations. Isn't that the real solution to the Arab v. Israeli conflict. Why not simply resettle all the jews in Cyprus?
Its an island, so cyprus-israel would have no antisemitic neighbors. Its Greek Truk population could be bought out for a fraction of the Zillions of dollars we give to Israel every year. And they could be transfered to Greece and Turkey.
Another possible "new israel" would be south Africa. Capetown would be a perfect place to resettle the Jews. Or perhaps Texas, lots of "Christian Zionists" in Texas. George Bushes Ranch would make an excellent new home for Bebe. I'm sure George - Mr. Christian Globalist - would agree with that.
I have no sympathy at this point for the Palestinians. For the last 50-60 years they've CONSISTENTLY made the worst possible decisions. When faced with overwhelming military might, they fight and die. When offered peace, they fight and die. When given infrastructure as a way to peace, they strip it for resources to continue fighting. And they depend on world sympathy to get them out of the kill boxes they find themselves in, plus the unwillingness of the Israeli to kill them off root and branch.
Although THEY would have no problems with that if they could. But here's an odd concept - if they could ERASE Israel - what comes next?
Their entire culture is dedicated to destroying Israel.
At what point can I come to the conclusion that not only are they incapable of coexisting with Israel, but they're incapable of dealing with the world at large? We already know that no other country in the area will allow them in, even temporarily. They've already been violently ejected from Jordan and Kuwait.
Picture Bruce Willis in Die Hard, glaring out the broken window: "Welcome to the party, pal!"
One of the heart breaking revelations from the last decade is that a large percentage of my fellow Americans would gladly send me to a re-education camp, prison, or even put me up against a wall simply because they disagree with my political opinions. Opinions BTW, that were completely mainstream for 95% of this country's history. Jews are now seeing the evil in these people that has been obvious to the rest of us for many years.
Crack said -
It was a joke - dark humor. You know I respect you.
Well, thanks, ditto, and I'm sorry not to pick up on it - I guess I'm overly earnest on this topic.
And josephbleau, exactly.
And also Jerry, excellent point about the endgame - do we have any sense of what the Palestinians would want if they succeeded in their immediate aim of driving all Jews out of the area (or out of this life)? I've never heard any discussion of what comes next.
Which is yet another reason I can't be pro-Palestinians even if they weren't anti-Jew. I just can't get around the laser focus on the destruction of Judaism, no matter the perceived provocation.
re liberal American jews, the thing is - that the right is wrong - and evil - about everything, not just in America but everywhere - is THE central tenet of political faith. It is unabandonable. Thus when Hamas murders over a thousand Jews in a single day, that's bad, that's very bad, but it cannot possibly have happened for reasons that the right has predicted. It must have happened for some other reason.
So if liberal American Jews are slowly coming to realise that the people they thought were their lefty allies actually hate them, that does not mean that they will come to make new friends with the right. Because the right are ways wrong and always evil. By definition.
I am quixotically reminded of the dwarfs in The Last Battle, who start off cynical about the King and Aslan, but quickly spot that Shift and the Calormenes are pulling a scam. But nothing - not even the Day of Judgement itself - can persuade them to abandon their determined faith that no one is to be trusted, including Aslan and the Narnians.
Israel just controls the water and the power and the food and who can get in and out, and they built checkpoints all over the place and they put a wall around it. But the direct occupation ended.
Because they don't want to control anybody's lives.
And Hamas takes all the aide money for infrastructure to make and buy weapons and ammunition. To build tunnels 100-200 feet below ground. 200 miles worth. It Trump were left alone his fist term, and was working on the last year of his second, Gaza would be in the midst of building an actual economy and generating their own GDP, a result of signing on to the Abrahm accords. Gaza and the West Bank could be independent and prosperous.
Palestinians make their choices. Now they will be held responsible for the savage attacks on civilians from the pre born to the elderly and infirm. All brutally murdered for no reason than they are Jewish.
"...many saw an existential threat..." Another way to "see" an existential threat is to read what Hamas says.
Hey Skipper said...
"@Crack: Israel just controls the water and the power and the food and who can get in and out, and they built checkpoints all over the place and they put a wall around it. But the direct occupation ended.
Because they don't want to control anybody's lives.
You have described the “what”. What you are leaving out is”why”.
Why is it in Israel’s interest to exert all that control over Gaza?"
For some odd reason hoards of Gazan yudes keep lobbing rockets into Israel and exploding themselves on busses. The scamps
Crack, thanks for the link at 6:42
Seems kind of stupid to be dependent on another countty to provide your water snd power and then attack that other country.
And then to complain when the water and power is cut off? Now that's some stupid and arrogance right there.
You were warned, repeatedly. They told you over and over who and what they are. But you chose to not listen. The left has always been such and you chose to ignore it. Are you paying attention now ? Will you remember tomorrow ? Or will you continue to slumber while your leftist " friends " once again sell you out and down the river ?
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