Peterson observes that the idea that attention spans are shrinking fails to account for the widespread consumption of audiobooks and very long podcasts. Ramaswamy first responds by speculating that there's a kind of "low-level dyslexia," and most people are a little slower reading than listening, and that means they are really capable of absorbing more complex material than they're willing or able to read.
Ramaswamy immediately posits a second theory: There's a hunger for "human connectivity," and people want a "disintermediated relationship" that they get from hearing the voice of the person who is generating ideas. Peterson jumps on that: It's why unscripted podcasts work so well. Peterson says books can go deeper, but it's easier to deceive people with a book. You can "craft your lies." But with a podcast, you get spontaneity, tone, and demeanor. People experience Joe Rogan as "genuine." "It's the antithesis of the crafted Hillary-Clinton political-class message." It's why Donald Trump was so successful.
I'm just summarizing (as the presence of Abraham Lincoln in my tags hints), and the conversation continues. I haven't set an end point. You'll see how long your attention span reaches.
१२१ टिप्पण्या:
Vivek is impressive.
Complete opposite of dick-stepping inarticulate "like never before" bubblegum card super hero-Democrat Party Asset. ooo who could that be?
"speculating that there's a kind of "low-level dyslexia," and most people are a little slower reading than listening,"
Is that why so much material is now available in video only? I detest listening rather than reading. (In fact, if it's only available as a video I will usually skip it). And the reason I've ascribed to my tastes is that listening is so slow. And the speed is rigid. I usually lose my attention when I'm listening, but reading engages me.
Vivek is great. Not sure he's right people can handle the truth, or want to. After build the wall and moderate grandpa Joe and the collusion hoax and Hunter's laptop and climate crisis and "inflation reduction" and exploding debt, there's more evidence people like being lied to. Even if people want truth, they want power and money and affirmation of their illusions more.
I read text to get through a lot of material quickly and to find things I want to blog about, but at other times, mostly when walking/running or doing chores, I listen to audiobooks and podcasts. The audio forces me to proceed linearly though the whole thing and to pay attention so I rarely have to skip back and re-listen. I don't have the option to click away, as I do when reading on screen. I'm surprised how many long things I get through that way.
Listening to Peterson and Ramaswamy, I had an idea I hadn't thought much about before (though I did say something close to this when we were talking the other day about putting subtitles on TV streaming when the audiotrack is too fuzzy to make out): You have a visual center in your brain. When you read text, the words are requiring the use of that visual center, and yet you're also trying to use the visual center to visualize what you are reading about (or to see the moving pictures on screen). But when you're listening to an audiobook/podcast, your visual center is freed up, so you have more brainpower to visualize the things the words you're hearing are calling to mind (or to see your immediate surroundings).
I work in the field and can say that eyes, probably due to viewing screens, have less ability to focus and to sustain reading than in the past. Audio mediums have allowed more people to take in complex ideas that used to be only in writing. This is not the traditional understanding of dyslexia, but is now more accepted as the definition.
People experience Joe Rogan as genuine because he is genuine. That must be striking to people with an agenda, or running for something…
There are other reasons why Joe is popular- a monopoly on the long firm interview, doesn’t step on his guests, isn’t primarily pushing a political agenda, if at all…
Peterson's remarks gave me insight into why I am choosing to write about some politicians and not others. You might challenge me for paying a lot of attention to Trump, Ramaswamy, and RFK Jr., but these are the people speaking spontaneously and at length. It's material worth engaging with.
It's not that I support their policies or want what they'd give me if they're elected. The person I'd want for that is too stiff and boring to write about. And that person is never going to rise to the top anyway. Plus, I'd have no way to know what was coming from that person and what was fed to them by faceless advisers.
This morning a post at Instapundit on saving the Confederate War memorial at Arlington reminded me of this from Karl Rove speaking on his book about the 1896 election and William McKinley. In short, McKinley remained in Columbus but would give 16, slightly varying, speeches a day. But also, McKinley invited Confederate veterans to Columbus and created a day of healing the wounds of the War. Capped off with a speech given from feeling rather than formulation. It was a long day, but everyone paid attention. And it provoked reunification of the country.
https://youtu.be/So2gCW659SE?t=2135
It struck me that while more travel would be required, the 6 or 7 similar but tailored speeches by one of the current candidates could be effective and retain not only the attention of the crowds but also of the "journalists".
One of my beloved teachers once defined education this way: " Education frees you from the tyranny of your own experience."
I believe books do that.
Today, everything has sped up. Technology has made information gathering and processing much easier, but also much faster. I can Google facts, can listen/stream music instantly. I’m in my mid-fifties and my whole idea of time has changed. I expect things to occur rapidly. Imagine how a young person feels? How would s/he have enough time and patience to read a book? I can't see it. That is why, education is going to have to adjust. I think deep reading is now an oxymoron. The way students learn today is different — their time span is shortened; expectations are less patient.
Re: podcasts
: Most hit podcasts have been grassroots, have had little money behind them and they have grown their following over a period of time. It superficial to commission 'big names' to produce podcasts because their audience hasn't grown with them over time, fed into the content to shape it or known them as the podcast personality that they have become — most of this content is often trying to chase the format of a hit podcast.
Sebastian said...
"Vivek is great. Not sure he's right people can handle the truth, or want to."
One simple way to find out. Tell the truth.
The truth, no matter how painful, is infinitely better than being fed a lie.
The people we pay attention to the most are true leaders, whether you agree with them or not. Policy wonks that can’t engage an audience have a hard time gaining any political momentum.
Peterson observes that the idea that attention spans are shrinking fails to account for the widespread consumption of audiobooks and very long podcasts. Ramaswamy first responds by speculating that there's a kind of "low-level dyslexia," and most people are a little slower reading than listening, and that means they are really capable of absorbing more complex material than they're willing or able to read.
I have another theory; I remember as a child having to learn to pay attention to things I needed to hear, but wasn't really interested in. I don't think that children are being taught that anymore, nor is there any expectation that they learn to do that if required.
I have two stepchildren (both adults now) who have been diagnosed with ADD. They are treated by Mrs. NorthOfTheOneOhOne and her family as if it is impossible for them to pay attention, but after having lived with them under my roof I can tell you that they are very capable of paying attention to things they want to pay attention to. They very much remind me of a dyslexic co-worker I once had who always seemed to struggle with understanding work related emails and memos, but had no problems reading Baseball Digest cover to cover on his lunch hour.
I listened to the whole podcast. Peterson, Rowe, Triggernometry are my daily commute podcast and all of them I enjoy for their long form. I listened to Bari Weiss for awhile, but I got tired of the schtick when she had on guest journalist to be interviewed, they'd mention Trump, and they'd mention how low down, rotten, liar, Trump was with absolutely zero examples. It was just asserted and Weiss never challenged them. It seemed like intellectual dishonesty to me.
As for Vivek, I like his message, but he attacked Trump precisely on the things that I don't think Vivek or Trump would be good at doing. Still, they are the only ones offering to do it, except maybe RFK Jr.
On Joe Rogan, lots of people talk about his three hour podcasts. That it keeps people interested for that long doesn't surprise me. Rush Limbaugh's program was three hours, and if podcasting existed in Limbaugh's heyday, I'm sure he would have done with far less profit center timeouts.
On discussion of audio freeing the visual center, I can agree. When I used to listen to pop fiction audiobooks, I tended to get books that were about to be released as movies. I tended to remember so much more visually from the audiobook than the movie.
Multitasking and multiprocessing disparities between the sexes? Can simulations break the glass ceiling?
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker: "Vivek is impressive.
Complete opposite of dick-stepping inarticulate "like never before" bubblegum card super hero-Democrat Party Asset. ooo who could that be?"
Vivek openly supports the TPP and increasing migration for skilled jobs, cutting US college graduates out of the pattern.
Trump does not.
"Vivek Ramaswamy Touts Pacific Trade Deal, Urges More Migration"
--Neil Munro, 29July2023
Discuss the potential impact of this difference on working class and US collefe graduates with technical degrees voters and their perceptions of candidates, particularly in the industrial midwest.
Not you HBTPFH, since you probably have no idea what TPP is and had no idea DeSantis supported it while he was in the House of Representatuves.
I am sick to death of the "how dare anyone attack trump" litmus test.
(well - Trump is a democrat asset)
Why is Trump above criticism?
In fact, if it's only available as a video I will usually skip it...listening is so slow. And the speed is rigid.
I feel the same way with regard to video vs. reading. But I'd differentiate between listening only and watching video. I consume podcasts via listening only. I rarely watch a podcast and never the whole thing. It takes too long. I can't invest that much time. I'm sure most people can't.
When you listen to a podcast you can speed it up, but even more importantly, you can listen while you're accomplishing something else. I like to listen when I'm walking or mowing the lawn or driving or any number of other routine tasks that don't require my complete attention.
I think that's one of the reasons for the popularity of podcasts and audio books, they allow you to multi-task.
Drago - We know you're a dedicated Trump-is-god loyalist. Fine. Good for you.
Stay loyal and keep your lips firmly planted on the billionaire's Democrat-party "lovely Hillary" asset ASS.
RFK Jr is a propagandist for the far-right and conspiracy theorists (which, nowadays, is one and the same).
Ramaswamy is setting an example and openly saying to other candidates: Talk spontaneously and at length as I do.
Let those others adopt his style (or Trump's style).
If they won't, is it because they can't? I like that Ramaswamy is putting pressure on other candidates to expose their mind and their character to us.
People experience Joe Rogan as "genuine."
Yes, but one problem I have with him is many times he's just a blown out stoner listening with rapt attention. He does have people worth listening to on his show but he also entertains crackpots spouting that 'alien visitors' and other off the wall stuff with the same rapt attention and a "Wow! Really?"
Drago - Trump and the democrats have the same mission. Trash all.
We note you never have a single negative thing to say about the crooked corrupt democrats.
it's Romney! McCain! McConnelltards! Meatball Ron! Gopeeeeee! Everyone must bow down and kiss Trump's inarticualte dick-stepping ass.
No thanks. You can have him.
TRUMP IS ALL YOURS. DRAGO. Pucker up... and kiss his ass.
Trump-Humpers for democxrats!
"I am sick to death of the "how dare anyone attack trump" litmus test."
How is that on topic here? I didn't do that. This seems like a thread hijack, but maybe you have an explanation.
Who pays TrumpSwab Drago to trash the GOP party? Trump or Democrats?
"Lovely Hillary"
-Trump 2023
I take you at your word, Althouse, on blogging about what you find to be interesting. Wholly apart from your own political choices.
For me, Ramaswamy and RFKJr "speaking spontaneously and at length" is just that much more of a bad thing. Idiocy in an XXL size.
I like the exact opposite. I am attracted to great, literate, beautifully-crafted speeches which reflect authorship by one or more smart, talented, informed, serious speechwriters making careful but important policy judgments. And there is precious little of that these days.
It is much more relevant to an actual presidency; how a potential president organizes a team and how that team negotiates tough policy choices. Whether or not they are a good podcast guest and a clever raconteur is precisely the wrong basis on which to judge candidates.
Example right now; the Biden Administration. Where Joe Biden is an amiable-at-best conversationalist, but where his Administration is performing superbly, in managing the Ukraine/NATO coalition, working the U.S. economy into a soft landing short of recession, advancing realistic legislative compromises, avoiding unforced errors, etc.
The best Ramaswamy line I heard today was this Tweet/X by former Congressman and now GOP presidential candidate Will Hurd: "Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave."
Blogger Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
I am sick to death of the "how dare anyone attack trump" litmus test.
(well - Trump is a democrat asset)
You are getting progressively more annoying. Try to cut back on the vitriol.
I watched that Vivek-Peterson interview and it is excellent, much better than the Tucker interview, I think.
What we think of as “genuine” emerges from a curiosity to follow a thought wherever it may lead.
That’s why free speech is so crucial. The more willingness to censor the less willingness we see to follow a thought.
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker: "Drago - Trump and the democrats have the same mission. Trash all.
We note you never have a single negative thing to say about the crooked corrupt democrats."
This is one of your sadder and more pathetic lies which is not surprising since you are having real difficulty dealing with the fact your GOPe heroes are working hand in glove with the dems to remove Trump...as they always have. And they will.
And you will cheer.
HBTPFH: "it's Romney! McCain! McConnelltards! Meatball Ron! Gopeeeeee! Everyone must bow down and kiss Trump's inarticualte dick-stepping ass."
Are you on medication?
Vivek 2024.
Anyone but Trump(D) the buffonish dick-stepper and democrat turn-out super star, Biden- corrupt crook (above the law, FBI special), Hillary corrupt crook, money whore + Maddow's GF, or Pretty boi-Captain Trudeau-clone Decline.
Anyone else notice how dramatically and emotionally (in a very unstable fashion) HBTPFH was unable, once again, as always, to address a simple policy question?
Again, there is a reason for that.
And she really gets unhinged if someone refuses to pretend Trump is the source of every GOP problem, past and present.
You can hear her screeching through her keyboard.
Ann - not directed at you at all.
Explanation: Prep for the inevitable trashing of Vivek, simply because he is not Trump - nor does Vivek pass the Trump-butt-kiss test. Didn't mean to hijack.
Every time I listen to Vivek - I am impressed with his handle on language, his precise use of language... etc.. He is an impressive person. Very smart.
This is short, and should keep your attention
Write a poem in the style of Dr. Seuss about
what would happen if the government of the
United States sent its military to fight civilians
Shooty shooty pew pew pew!
Let's all learn what guns can do!
Liberals in the USA
Love to nod their heads and say,
"You bought your guns from a store!
You can't fight a civil war!
Fight the army, you will lose!
They have jets and tanks to use!
That's not where the story ends!
They have homes, and kids, and friends!
Tyrants threathen you with bombs?
Just remember: they have moms!
You can't live inside your jet!
Can we find you? Yes, you bet!
You'd send soldiers and marines
Up against AR-15s?
They're outnumbered ten to one.
That is why I need a gun.
Don't forget, because it's true:
Government is scared of you
Leland: "As for Vivek, I like his message, but he attacked Trump precisely on the things that I don't think Vivek or Trump would be good at doing. Still, they are the only ones offering to do it, except maybe RFK Jr."
Vivek's best line thus far, not that anyone will buy it entirely, is that he was running as 2015 Trump.
In fact, I think its the best line of the campaign so far.
That was a very powerful, easily understood message that both builds on the Trump messaging and gets Trump supporters nodding while also subtly criticizing Trump in a non-put-off-ish way.
Messaging like that helps a candidate past voter attention span barriers.
I can't listen to podcasts. As someone said, they're too slow. The host must greet and explain, words must be formed and annunciated. It drives me crazy. I wish it didn't, because I miss a lot of interesting content.
There's something especially vile about people like RFK Jr, who is a highly educated person from superior schools, pretending to believe this anti-vaxx conspiracy—theory nonsense. It's one thing when a blithering idiot like Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, or their ilk believe it; at least they're really that stupid. But the ones who have the education to know better, they're really evil. They watched hundreds of thousands more Americans die than needed to, if they'd only gotten vaccinated. Yet they feed this stuff.
Isn't 'talking spontaneously and at length' just another way to prefer the 'candidate I would like to have a beer with'?
Would love him to explain how speaking like this is a qualification for a job where precision and minor details are what is needed for diplomacy and trade deals, not long winded off the cuff speech.
Splendid convo. Watched it all. Thank you for highlighting it.
Ramaswamy is doubtless the smartest and most articulate of the bunch. I can see why Trump would steer clear of being in a debate with him. Ramaswamy could easily beat Biden. Trump could barely tie Biden. The press hasn’t taken Vivek as a threat and has wasted their ink on demonizing DeSantis. It demonizes Trump like breathing. So Ramaswamy as engaging and smart as he is might have a chance. VP at worst.
Ramaswamy's approach to long-dialogue engagement, or just long monologues on his own are somehow, very engaging. He's interesting- both in what he says, and how he says it. He has a particular elocution that so perfectly gets in every syllable, every vowel. Which is very unlike many speakers today, and in particular, our President.
Also- Ramaswamy is an idea guy. His entire campaign is full of talk of new ideas, and a re-engaging with traditional ideas formerly looked at as foundational. To get these ideas across, you don't want a 15 year political consultant handed the info and asked to turn it into a 15 second sound bite. You need long dialogue engagement, with us looking and listening in on it.
I think it's working for him so far. Remember this campaign is not nearly over. So much can and will happen. I find the Trump people's insistence that all others stand down and pledge allegiance to him, both insulting and a show of insecurity. Anyway- unlike most politicians, the more I hear Vivek, the more I like Vivek.
They watched hundreds of thousands more Americans die than needed to, if they'd only gotten vaccinated.
You do know that the CDC now admits that the vaccines neither prevented you from getting COVID or from spreading it...right?
I think it depends upon the person. I simply don't have the time or patience to listen to a 90 minute podcast, let alone one that lasts 2 or 3 hours. I made it about 1/3 of the way through the Jordan Peterson podcast before baling. If I could I would pay someone to listen to the whole podcast, then have them write up a detailed and thorough synopsis of the main points. Even if it took me 30 minutes to read and study it, I would much rather do that than listen to the whole thing.
While I'm glad they're both out there, raising the collective IQ in the media a notch above The View, they're still two guys currently popular for getting "woke" wrong, so they just don't sound as smart as they come across, or their adulation suggests.
Peterson lost me back when he got into that weird diet thing, and then followed that by aggressively talking about God (I was fine with lobster, thanks). But then, both he and Ramaswamy wandered into THE cultural arena both are clearly not equipped to be in - the NewAge - and one as a way to campaign for authority, claiming he'll wrest control over a zeitgeist he clearly misunderstands. Not even.
Ice Cube's son recently said he turned down a film role, that he hinted was going to be financed by Oprah, because she dissed his father. That kid's done more to strike a blow against the NewAge movement, and probably knows more about what's going on with woke, than either of these guys. Who, I'm sure, would be flattered by any opportunity to sit by her side. Because they ain't grasping shit.
Or they are, and tightly.
Vivek is impressive.
Jordan Peterson restrained himself and let Vivek talk, which was good.
I don’t know if Vivek is a viable presidential candidate or not.
But he is the only one running this year who impresses me at all.
Guess I'm saying, my attention span is limited
I much prefer to read, but I do understand the attraction of podcasts. But for me, the draw of podcasts is that they can be sped up. I am completely comfortable at listening at 1.25x, or even 1.5x for many of them, and this condensing of the running time make the audio option a really good one for me.
Temujin: "I find the Trump people's insistence that all others stand down and pledge allegiance to him, both insulting and a show of insecurity."
Do you have an example of this from this blog, or is this something seem elsewhere and just applied here?
Althouse writes, "Peterson observes that the idea that attention spans are shrinking fails to account for the widespread consumption of audiobooks and very long podcasts."
Just yesterday, I was struggling with Kindle on macOS Ventura. The text-to-speech feature would not work, and nothing I tried mitigated the issue. So I searched for solutions and discovered that my case is far from unique. Dozens of people on just one Mac support forum page described the exact failure of the Kindle text-to-speech tool that I experienced, and not one so-called Apple genius could suggest a solution. One of these was quite irate with Amazon for not fixing their ebook utility. He specifically cited his anger over the dozens of textbooks he has purchased in Kindle form. I thought, What? You're listening to textbooks instead of reading them? And here am I believing college admission boards exist to weed out the congenital idiots. Well, fuck me, obviously not.
Audiobooks are nice. I own a few hundred, but they are a sorely deficient means to digest serious reading. For one thing, there are footnotes. They're down there in the footer or in an appendix for a sound reason. Audiobook narrators generally don't do not bother with the notes, ergo much of the value of a given scholarly work is left out.
The Crack Emcee writes, "Guess I'm saying, my attention span is limited."
Mine, too.
Striptease has its uses.
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker: "Who pays TrumpSwab Drago to trash the GOP party? Trump or Democrats?"
You really are the republican version of Inga.
And once again noted: HBTPFH will accept no criticism of the GOPe....which makes sense given how aligned they are with the dems.
Exit question, speaking of attention spans and effective political use of the power of Congress: when will the GOP open a formal impeachment inquiry into Biden given the mountain of documented evidence?
Trick question.
The answer is: never.
Vivek and Trump both love our country deeply - this comes across in all of their actions, speeches and discussions. I’m not sure I see that love of country as richly in any of the other candidates, left or right. So, for me, they are the only ones to consider at this point. Things could change, of course.
Rich,
There's something especially vile about people like RFK Jr, who is a highly educated person from superior schools, pretending to believe this anti-vaxx conspiracy—theory nonsense.
(1) "Pretending to believe"? I don't think so. RFKjr has researched this subject long and hard, and I am sure that he is sincere in his beliefs. (Whether they are true or not is a different question; but on mRNA vaccines he is bringing up matters that others are desperate to keep tamped down. Which obviously doesn't prove him right, of course. But in an age when perfectly true statements -- e.g., "Covid vaccines don't prevent you catching Covid," or "Covid vaccines don't prevent you spreading Covid" have been embargoed as "disinformation" from major media platforms, mightn't he have a point?)
(2) Ooooh, a Kennedy -- one of those Kennedys --is a Highly Educated Person from SUPERIOR SCHOOLS! Well, obviously he's super-smart, then, unlike those two rural chicks in the House. Look, RFKjr would've gotten into any damn school he wanted, even if he'd (say) shot someone in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue. Because HE'S A KENNEDY. Also, his uncle and his father were assassinated. This counts, until it doesn't. Which just happens to be the instant he dips his toe into the 2024 Presidential race.
Althouse writes "You have a visual center in your brain. When you read text, the words are requiring the use of that visual center, and yet you're also trying to use the visual center to visualize what you are reading about (or to see the moving pictures on screen). But when you're listening to an audiobook/podcast, your visual center is freed up, so you have more brainpower to visualize the things the words you're hearing are calling to mind (or to see your immediate surroundings)."
Back in the golden age of radio, someone did an Abe Lincoln on this idea and boiled it down to the theatre of the mind, or some such punchy formulation. But what it really boils down to is imagination, a faculty everyone has, and everyone applies consciously or unconsciously to words read or heard**. Visual impressions are the paradigm of imagination, the root word being image.
As for this "visual center in your brain", I'm none too sanguine. Long before physiologists could observe a living brain in operation they traced nerves in cadavers. I believe Leonardo's notebooks reveal he traced the optic nerves in a corpse he dissected to a bulbous region in the rear of its brain known generally as the occipital process, which became the "visual center" in later medical texts and endured as such for centuries. However, experiments conducted on living and conscious human brains using positron emission tomography have demonstrated that there is no "visual center". When shown still images or videos, living brains under a PET scanner light up like Christmas trees. There's no identifiable visual center associated with the interpretation of images. Every image shown produces a unique pattern of brain activity, and even if the same image is displayed to the same subject a few minutes later, the activity pattern will be different. While it is true that injury to the occipital region can affect vision and even cause blindness, that part of the brain doesn't seem to be uniquely in charge of making sense of what stimulates our optical nerves. So, no "visual center in your brain", chuck that.
Furthermore, I doubt this freed-up brainpower idea holds much water, either. If our imaginations work better when listening to a text being read to us rather than reading something it's more likely to be an effect of time rather than reduced cerebral workload. Brains are multi-threaded parallel processors with plenty of excess capacity if we can work with few distractions. Audiobook narrators speak considerably more slowly than most of us can read the same text, therefore we've more time to process and make associations with what we hear.
** Julian Jaynes had some interesting ideas about reading in the Bronze Age, the time before human consciousness according to his Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.
You do know that the CDC now admits that the vaccines neither prevented you from getting COVID or from spreading it...right?
…and knew this while they were still pretending and preaching the vaccines were a guarantee against.
Drago: Not referring to anything seen here, though I probably could. I just haven't watched it that closely. But in other spaces, its real and bizarre.
In a world of 24/7 political broadcasts, folks occupying the low end of intelligence are suddenly grasping at the oversimplifications and lies offered by stupid people like Trump. If Trump says he is a con representing the Monkey Party, the Monkey Party is overwhelmed by unthinking fools.
Jordan Peterson may understand personality theory but he brushes over the dishonesty inherent to politics. Seven years of politics according to Trump makes the whole discussion of attention span silly.
As for “Vivek the Fake,” he obviously is running for VP, since the criminal with four indictments on his head doesn't speak well for our first-ever Hindu candidate who might want to listen to Chris Christie, who said:
"Be yourself, and Tell. It. Like. It. Is."
"Vivek for Vice President" is better than "Vivek for Vice!"
Althouse is "...paying a lot of attention to Trump, Ramaswamy, and RFK Jr., but these are the people speaking spontaneously and at length. It's material worth engaging with."
Despite my disparaging remarks about Ramaswamy the other day, I would wholeheartedly agree with this after listening to the discussion. It also helps, as noted above, that all three seem to have a genuine love for the country and its core tradition of individual freedom. (That probably is the main reason why Obama, while probably having the intelligence to spontaneously engage, didn't.) As for Joe and Kamala, well, their defects are too obvious for words.
One or two hour podcasts work great when you're cutting the grass
Temujin: "I find the Trump people's insistence that all others stand down and pledge allegiance to him, both insulting and a show of insecurity."
Yes. Trumpswab near constant harassment is tiresome.
Again Drago - keep your lips firmly planted on the dick-stepper's flabby buttocks. Never stop worshiping the golden escalator super hero who paved the way for our Corruptocrat decline.
I had an idea I hadn't thought much about before........ yet you're also trying to use the visual center to visualize what you are reading about
Generally speaking it's why I like books better than movies. While I am reading my imagination provides the pictures. With a book I really enjoy the visuals can be quite vivid. Movies force someone else's vision of the pictures on me. With rare exceptions I find I like my own visualizations much better.
The person who had the earliest insight into the character of a populist president and created Trump's role model was Douglas Adams. In The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy he wrote:
"The President in particular is very much a figurehead — he wields no real power whatsoever. He is apparently chosen by the government, but the qualities he is required to display are not those of leadership but those of finely judged outrage. For this reason the President is always a controversial choice, always an infuriating but fascinating character. His job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it. On those criteria Zaphod Beeblebrox is one of the most successful Presidents the Galaxy has ever had — he has already spent two of his ten presidential years in prison for fraud."
Douglas Adams had keen insights into human character and has largely been underappreciated.
"They watched hundreds of thousands more Americans die than needed to, if they'd only gotten vaccinated. "
Wow. Apparently, you stopped paying attention months ago.
@Michelle Dulak Thomson
We had friends come to dinner one night a few years ago, and through a miscommunication, they mistakenly thought we were sympathetic to a minor conspiracy theory circulating in our community about Antifa attacking the town (we never believed it).
Thinking they were among fellow travelers, they unloaded pretty much every single QAnon and Q-adjacent theory you could imagine: from tracking nanobots to manufactured viruses to New World Orders and liberals drinking the blood of frightened children. And maybe some lizard DNA and the Rothchilds.
And while it sounds funny (and in a way it was very entertaining), these are smart, well-educated, caring, thoughtful people; one is a CPA and the other a county Supervisor.
The supervisor went on to make Covid-related health decisions in our community; she posted a 10-page justification for ivermectin and how Covid wasn't real, or wasn't really a problem; she received a standing ovation in public.
That's all troubling enough; but what became clear from knowing them as friends is that there was a strong personal and spiritual component to this 'search for truth'. They believed they were doing noble work in uncovering deeper mysteries, and saving the world from evil. They actually suggested that Q might be an angel—literally.
My point is that delusion takes many forms, and affects good, intelligent people. The lure of the sacred knowledge, and the specialness that comes with it, is really intoxicating.
Maybe people want to engage the content. I think most of us here agree with that, but also I think we all agree we would prefer not to read it first before we talk about it.
"our analysis shows the emergence of Gab as a space for comparison and sharing of information sources and differing worldviews that is lacking on Facebook. Gab claims to promote freedom of speech and provide an environment where users can express their opinions without fear of being censored or banned. Relating to RQ2, as LCA outcomes show, the themes investigated a user who expresses a position against the tide on Facebook that most likely triggers a real “shitstorm” against him, generating a polarization of positions that in a short time turns into hate speech, thus preventing a meaningful contest between different opinions. On the contrary, on Gab, the idea of being able to express a position (albeit controversial and not widely shared by public opinion) with a users' audience, who probably share that same position and are more prone to confrontation than to attack, generates a discussion environment that is less polarized and more open to the exchange of opinions."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10390321/
---
Agree on Julian Jayne. Good book.
@ Original Mike
In an age where truth doesn't matter and facts are debunked in favor of conspiracy theories and lies, it's no surprise that someone like RFK Jr. has caught fire with a segment of the public that would rather believe in someone operating in a separate reality.
I've always said that there is something elegant, even beautiful, about a well-made conspiracy theory. Any piece of information that does not contradict the narrative is ironclad proof, and any piece of information that does contradict the narrative is part of the conspiracy.
HBTPFH: "Yes. Trumpswab near constant harassment is tiresome."
LOL
Harrassment now = asking DeSantis supporters to explain DeSantis policy positions.
"Flip-side Inga"
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker: "Again Drago - keep your lips firmly planted on the dick-stepper's flabby buttocks. Never stop worshiping the golden escalator super hero who paved the way for our Corruptocrat decline."
Many more words vomited up to try and obscure the fact you are too lazy to understand or explain a single policy position of any candidate you have publicly supported.
At this point we can no longer assume its merely laziness but more likely a lack of basic capability...which explains your lunatic over-reactions.
With even a long attention span back in the day, would still find myself drifting in and out every 25 minutes or so. I think it may be a need to process the information. For example, there is an hour long YouTube from Perun on the Ukraine War I listen to on Sunday. He makes PowerPoint interesting and I still pause every 15minutes to absorb what I am hearing. I can "power through" if I must, but that isn't the best for understanding and retention.
Ann Althouse said...
Ramaswamy is setting an example and openly saying to other candidates: Talk spontaneously and at length as I do.
Let those others adopt his style (or Trump's style).
If they won't, is it because they can't? I like that Ramaswamy is putting pressure on other candidates to expose their mind and their character to us."
They oth come accross as genuine and sincere. They've put a lot of thought into their positions and aren't afraid to present them.You are free to agree or disagree as long as you can make your case. What more could you ask for?
Why is this on Trump? I thought it was about attention spans and which media is best for delivering information?
Vivek is a tremendous leader of the minds of men. After hearing this on Spotify at the Gymn, I was so impressed that I immediately told the wife to check it out to hear a man smarter and better than Jordan
Peterson at expressing himself in ideas. That boy can talk. And Jordan really enjoyed every minute of it. Vivek made Peterson happy for the first time in years.
Rich - I'm talking about the fact that we have known since the fall of 2021 that the mRNA "vaccines" do not prevent the transmission of covid. Big study in first tier medical journals.
If you want to see another interview with Ramaswamy check out one that John Stossel did with him a while back. John Stossel calls himself a libertarian so his questions to Ramaswamy are pretty interesting. He does these long form interviews with different people such as Peterson, Desantis and other topics. They are on YouTube.
“As for “Vivek the Fake,” he obviously is running for VP, since the criminal with four indictments on his head doesn't speak well for our first-ever Hindu candidate who might want to listen to Chris Christie, who said:
"Be yourself, and Tell. It. Like. It. Is."
"Vivek for Vice President" is better than "Vivek for Vice!"”
Every time I hear Vivek speak the first impression is faker. He’s aging what he knows Trumps people want to hear. Why can’t he just be honest and say he wants to be VP for Trump? He is smarmy to my ears.
Correction: Saying, not aging.
I listened to the whole thing starting while I was doing dishes and cleaning up which what I use podcasts for but continuing to listen after half an hour because dialog was so interesting. One thing I noticed was that Ramaswamy put great emphasis on his ability to take on and mostly abolish the administrative state which he regards as mostly unconstitutional. He will be able to fire the Federal work force because he isn't going to fire them, he's going to abolish their jobs. He's getting rid of the Education department, for example, in that way. It struck me that "ability to take on and cut back the administrative state" is the new Republican theme while "continue to expand the administrative state" is the Dem theme.
Then he put great emphasis on having a vision rather than trying to inculcate and stir up fear as the Dems are doing with climate, with Covid and with victimization.
Then he was very interesting on the subject of the younger generation being tired of living under the fear sign. I hope so. And how they would rebel and daringly get married and have kids.
Then there was a long section on how marriage works in this day and age when you can't just assume you know a "woman's place." Each was trying to help, even push, the other be the best person they really are.
Next, Ramaswamy said belief in God was vital to human life. I was glad to hear a candidate say that: I really do think that being a disconnected person adrift in the galaxy isn't our true way to be and that it can lead to annihilation of the human nature of individuals by mass processes or by mutilations as in gender surgery on children or by addictions catered to by society.
I wondered how this young man would stand up to the pressures that Trump faces because he took on the deep state aka administrative state. But I was glad to see a young man trying to give the young people hope.
Audiobooks and podcasts have made it impossible for me to read fiction anymore. Its so much better to LISTEN to it. I'm talking about good authors. I can savor the great language and writing. When I read I speed through it.
WHen it comes to non-fictio or podcasts i usually have it cranked up to 1.1 or 1.2 speed. Sometimes if its "slow talker" I crank it up to 1.3 or 1.4. One of Bob Wright's most annoying heads was Michael benenan Dougherty. Not only did this guy Talk...real...slow. But he took forever to make a point. He set some kind of record for fewest interesting points per minute. Usually I'd listen to him at 1.5.
BTw, one aspect of todays speeded up culture is I can no longer listen to speeches. I like Trump, and he's one of the best Political speakers around, but I never listened to any of his speeches. I just don't have the paitence (sic).
The idea of sitting down and listening to some dullard like Biden or Desantis for 20 minutes, would drive me crazy.
The same is true of many sporting events when I watch. I've gotten to recording most of them, and then FF'ing through them. I no longer can just sit there and watch a three hour Football game or a 2 hour Basketball game. Too boring. Usually, I'll just watch the highlights, and save 2 hours to time.
Ramaswamy is indeed smart, as many here have pointed out, but that has become almost a negative for me. I’m not looking for the Republican Obama.
@ Original Mike
Vaccination still remains our mainstay for preventing severe Covid.
A recent NIH study showed three predictors for mortality from Covid: age, co-morbidities, and political party (presumably a surrogate both for lower rates of vaccination and more risk-taking that results in a higher likelihood of exposure). There is also little question that risk factors like morbid obesity (leading to CAD and diabetes) and smoking are more prevalent among rural conservatives. Many of those we see dying of Covid have multiple medical issues, and Covid is often a contributing cause but not the sole one for their demise.
Pedo Pete can ride a bike!
How is your migrant hostel going Inga?
The biggest reason to pay attention to Ramaswamy is this- people like Rich, Chuck, Inga, and Lone Justice hate him with an obvious passion. Ramaswamy pisses off exactly the right kinds of people.
Rich,
Sorry about your (ex-?)friends. I do not see what they have to do with RFKjr, who you described earlier as "especially vile," because he was supposedly extra-smart, having gone to "superior schools" and all. You mean, as smart as a county supervisor, or a CPA?
I repeat that RFKjr's thoughts specifically on mRNA vaccines do not appear to be insincerely held, and a couple of his claims, ones that have been repeatedly slapped down by platform controllers &c., are obviously true. You can get Covid after being vaccinated and boosted, even many times. You can pass on Covid, ditto. Back in May we had the spectacle of a CDC conference, where virtually everyone was double-vaxxed and probably triple-boosted, turning into -- what else? -- a Covid super-spreader event. Is RFKjr allowed to mention that? Is he "especially vile" if he does? Or is it OK for him now, since the CDC itself reported on it?
I think Vivek might be a stalking horse for Trump and they end up running as Trump/Vivek ‘24.
Rich said...
@Michelle Dulak Thomson
We had friends come to dinner one night,... they unloaded pretty much every single QAnon and Q-adjacent theory you could imagine"
This guy gets it
The biggest reason to pay attention to Ramaswamy is this- people like Rich, Chuck, Inga, and Lone Justice hate him with an obvious passion. Ramaswamy pisses off exactly the right kinds of people.
It was my only reason for liking Trump in 206.
I've always said that there is something elegant, even beautiful, about a well-made conspiracy theory. Any piece of information that does not contradict the narrative is ironclad proof, and any piece of information that does contradict the narrative is part of the conspiracy.
Too true...wait, you are talking about Russian collusion and the Steele dossier...right?
traditionalguy said...
They both, Ramaswamy and Peterson, remind me of Cristopher Hitchens. Very well read. Thoughtful. With an ability to make the complex understandable. They don't make their arguments based on "Trump is evil!". They give their reasons for their conclusions. Something none of the progressives on the log can do.
(I used,"Trump is evil!" as an example that our usual suspects could comprehend.)
@ Michelle Dulak Thomson
My wife who is a clinician (ED-ICU) has a few sincerely held (well informed) beliefs as well. I find it disturbing that you are arguing semantics here. RFK Jr is a conspiracy theorist, plain and simple. He’s espousing ideas that just aren’t true, but worse, he’s passing them off as fact. Anybody who gives this guy any credibility should inform themselves.
41 minutes is too long to listen. I can read it all in less than 15 minutes. I did watch fo 16 minutes, then stopped came back for another 5 minutes and then stopped. I am a reader.The reason I like videos is if is catchy. Not to listen to two people talking.
41 minutes is too long to listen. I can read it all in less than 15 minutes. I did watch fo 16 minutes, then stopped came back for another 5 minutes and then stopped. I am a reader.The reason I like videos is if is catchy. Not to listen to two people talking.
Some of us short attention span types remember what the people we are supposed to trust did and said about the "Russian Collusion Hoax." And about Covid. And about Afghanistan. And about "Climate Change," and race, and about a whole lot of things.
We are not ready to "move on" about any of this; we do not trust that the insiders will take care of things. We see that the insiders are absolutely bent on pretending that they were always right and we were wrong. Or that maybe the insiders were mistaken but Trump is bad so we should get past it, and get back to "normal."
I do not think that there are many Trump supporters who think that Trump will "fix" our government. I think that most understand that Trump is mainly intent on vindication and a reckoning. I am projecting, I suppose, but I think many, many people that needs to happen before things can be fixed.
Nothing against Ramaswamy or Disantis, but Trump is the vessel for this feeling. I am not sure how any of the other candidates can harness that, but it is what it is.
Michelle Dulak Thomson...
RFK had a reputation as a New Age quack long before the pandemic started. He was part of that crew who came up with the disgraced quack, Andrew Wakefield, featuring Jenny McCarthy, Jim Carey, and Robert De Niro, who made an easily-dissed anti-VAX film long before the pandemic hit.
It's the way the media puts parameters around subjects - that will make Americans forget everything that happened before what they're currently talking about - that everyone should be watching out for: they can make you stupid.
boatbuilder said...
I do not think that there are many Trump supporters who think that Trump will "fix" our government. I think that most understand that Trump is mainly intent on vindication and a reckoning. I am projecting, I suppose, but I think many, many people that needs to happen before things can be fixed.
That's where I am
Stick with your corrupt crook - Inga. The corrupt crook and his corrupt family want your support.
Yancey Ward said...
The biggest reason to pay attention to Ramaswamy is this- people like Rich, Chuck, Inga, and Lone Justice hate him with an obvious passion. Ramaswamy pisses off exactly the right kinds of people.
------------------
I think Ramaswamy is great. I've never said anything negative about him here. If the Iowa caucuses were held today, I would likely vote for DeSantis, but Ramaswamy is a strong second.
Boatbuilder
Vivek has the theme of a Second American Revolution. He’s also an outsider.
Temujin and all.
If you ever have a chance to see Vivek in person, GO.
I’ve seen him three times and asked him questions every time. Amazing stuff. Best candidate ever.
“Why is Trump above criticism?”
You gotta be f/king kidding me, right now.
Be best.
America 1st.
Inga is such a close-minded loyal leftist - she prefers old crooks to anyone with a brain.
Vivek has rendered himself unelectable as a result of his declaration that he voting age should be raised to 25.
He may be right, but this sound bite would be exploited, and he'd get less than 25% of the under 25 crowd, who would be animated to GOTV as a result of Vivek's stance on the young voter.
About the issue of short attention span....
Now, where was I?
But seriously, I don't know if it's Dyslexia as much as it might be Autism. I'm one of those people who is borderline autistic. I relate much better to machines and technology than I do to live people. It's much more comfortable, emotionally, to listen to a podcast or read an e-book or read a blog than to interact, face to face, with a live human. Live humans put out strange signals, specifically directed at you, that are sometimes difficult to process.
I don't see Autism as a "disease." I see it as a part of the human experience and every person has their own level of Autism. Most people can function in society with various levels of Autism. Unfortunately, some people, who are extremely high on the Autism spectrum, just can't function in society. Their Autism "gain" is set way too high.
BTW, here in Corona CA, we're about 4 hours from the worst of tropical storm Hilary hitting us. (Heavy rain and winds by 2 PM PST and the eye should pass over us at 5PM PST.)
@ The Crack Emcee
In November 2020, a few hours after the US presidential election had been called for Joe Biden, Virginia Thomas, wife of Clarence Thomas, justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, sent a bizarre text to Donald Trump’s chief of staff, her old friend Mark Meadows. It read:
“Biden crime family & ballot fraud co-conspirators (elected officials, bureaucrats, social media censorship mongers, fake stream media reporters, etc) are being arrested & detained for ballot fraud right now & over coming days & will be living in barges off GITMO [Guantánamo Bay] to face military tribunals for sedition”. ~ Ginny Thomas
The above anecdote about Virginia Thomas raises disturbing questions. We now know who her husband works for. Who does she work for?
“You might challenge me for paying a lot of attention to Trump, Ramaswamy, and RFK Jr., but these are the people speaking spontaneously and at length. It's material worth engaging with.”
Excellent observation!
Empty-Headed Victory Mincing and a Lack of Self-Awareness…
That’s Rich!
Igna rant Sunday!
Can anyone recommend two progressive voices having a long-form conversation like this? I am willing to believe it is my confirmation bias that makes me feel like I've never seen one.
@Anthony: "it is my confirmation bias that makes me feel like I've never seen one."
I'd meet you and raise you: it makes you feel like long-form conversations that fully explore an issue, in over-a-beer Saxon word choices versus academic Latin- or Greek-derived insider jargon,
is not possible.
@boatbuilder:
"Nothing against Ramaswamy or Disantis, but Trump is the vessel for this feeling [of need for retribution before broad fixes for elite misbehavior]."
FWIW Vivek has pledged some sort of investigation into at least the J6 showtrials.
It may not be going deep enough, broadly enough, or voiced energetically enough, but it was probably as deep, broad, and energetic as Vivek was willing to go. And clearly a signal to Trump supporters.
I'm retired. Granted, it's not possible to read a book while you're walking. But if the subject is non-fiction, I personally 🙌would much rather read a physical book than listen to the audiobook (where I would have to take notes, like a lecture). I can read a lot faster than I can listen. The book might have an index which would help me find something I was interested in. If not, I could bookmark it as I read. (I don't have a current iPod or anything like that, and AFAIK, none of them allows bookmarking.)
Peterson gave a speech when he accepted an award for a journalist who was in prison for reporting the truth. I wasn't clear about the point he was making, and to understand it more clearly, I took the auto-generated transcript and edited it for easier reading (adding punctuation, capitalization, paragraphs). That helped me a lot mostly just by listening carefully. I actually submitted the edited transcript to him, but I don't know if he ever used it.
If the podcast is on Youtube, there's often a transcript with it. The auto-generated transcript is far from perfect, but it's better than nothing, and I can search it with ctl-f. Peterson's old lectures frustrate me because for some reason the auto-generated transcript is less than half complete.
If people want to listen to Peterson or Joe Rogan or an audiobook, at least that's better than a lot of the other stuff out there.
I was disappointed by Ramaswamy on Peterson, especially as so many here rave about him. He came off as a deeply ill-informed egomaniac. He actually claimed to be the first person to observe and address the problem of leftist institutional capture, a phenomenon he then said he discovered only a few years ago. I and millions of other conservative activists dedicated our lives and livelihoods to fighting leftist institutional capture long before this dude was in diapers. Then he had the gall to accuse conservatives -- us -- of being lazy and reactive. In fact, we are the only people actually working to actually pass actual laws to push back this institutional capture, and we have been doing so for half a century. What's his track record? He wrote a book?
Pretty ignorant. It's even more ignorant to call one of your key voting demographics lazy to their faces, especially when you are dead wrong in saying so.
His claims about being self-made by working harder than other people in college were equally risible: he was gambling with money he could afford to throw away, probably daddy's. He may as well have been betting on sports. He grew up wealthy.
Warmed-over, misread Austrian School combined with the usual neo-technocrat fantasies, neither of which realistically address our most crucial problems, while absurdly taking credit for other people's work. Smells like a less humble Ben Shapiro.
He wasn't even particularly articulate. He repeated himself, bragged droningly, and kept saying he has visions and plans rather than discussing them. My husband said he'd love to watch him try to fire or transfer most federal workers in his first term. A smarter candidate would offer a pragmatic plan that has some hope of succeeding, then grow it.
Dave Begley: I'll take him seriously when he's says he's an outsider when he announces that he will not accept money or an endorsement from Club for Growth. Until then, it's just talk.
I was really put off by him when I listened to the podcast yesterday. He keeps saying he's different, then saying exactly what all the other candidates say, and not saying what all the other candidates don't say, while claiming he has invented this incredible new type of political speech.
I felt like he was trying to sell me a new app for my phone, not run for public office. How exactly does he plan to fight back against leftist institutional capture, except in all the ways the rest of us have actually been doing it for decades? Just repeat Da Constitution, Da Founding Fathers? And that's NOT talking down to the constitutiencies he needs, who have been doing real work?
He also reminds me of that jerk from Freedomworks with the sideburns. I was waiting for this guy to stop talking at people at a meeting years ago, and he insulted the entire crowd. He yelled "Raise your hand if you bought my book." Then he yelled, "OK, now keep your hand up if you actually read it."
That form of narcissism may be even more ineffectual than Trump's ultimately was.
He isn't experienced enough to know how to dismantle the federal government system. He does not have the credibility either. While he can tell you why it should be dismantled, Vivek does not know HOW to do that. Vivek talks in circles repeatedly about why it should be dismantled, then tries to persuade us into believing he would know how - if he did, he would say - but he doesn't because he doesn't really know. That isn't good enough because one of the candidates actually KNOWS HOW.
This is where DeSantis is better. He actually did this in Florida and with his extensive experience in both DC and in Tallahassee, DeSantis CAN DO that, knows how to do it, and has already committed to doing it from "Day One".
Here in Illinois, we had a governor who could tell us why our government is a disaster, but did not have the ability to take the first step. He was also an outsider, but refused to learn the rules he had to master to do it. Rauner kept blathering endlessly, without any other plans than his "Turn Around Agenda" which was dead on arrival. Vivek needs more than a Plan A - he has to have 26 plans at least. DeSantis knows this.
He isn't experienced enough to know how to dismantle the federal government system. He does not have the credibility either. While he can tell you why it should be dismantled, Vivek does not know HOW to do that. Vivek talks in circles repeatedly about why it should be dismantled, then tries to persuade us into believing he would know how - if he did, he would say - but he doesn't because he doesn't really know. That isn't good enough because one of the candidates actually KNOWS HOW.
This is where DeSantis is better. He actually did this in Florida and with his extensive experience in both DC and in Tallahassee, DeSantis CAN DO that, knows how to do it, and has already committed to doing it from "Day One".
Here in Illinois, we had a governor who could tell us why our government is a disaster, but did not have the ability to take the first step. He was also an outsider, but refused to learn the rules he had to master to do it. Rauner kept blathering endlessly, without any other plans than his "Turn Around Agenda" which was dead on arrival. Vivek needs more than a Plan A - he has to have 26 plans at least. DeSantis knows this.
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा