The New Yorker's Isaac Chotiner says, interviewing lawprof Genevieve Lakier, in "The Evolving Free-Speech Battle Between Social Media and the Government/A recent court ruling dramatically curtailed the federal bureaucracy’s ability to communicate with Internet platforms. What’s at stake when free speech harms the public?"
I like that Chotiner makes the hypothetical about Trump. The facts in the actual litigation are about the Biden administration, and one can expect New Yorker readers to lean toward approving of whatever Biden's people saw fit to do. So it's good to flip the facts.
Lakier says:
I find this question really tricky, because I think that the easiest cases from a First Amendment perspective, and the easiest reason for courts to get involved, is when the communication is secret, because there isn’t political accountability. You mentioned the White House press secretary saying something in public. O.K., that’s one thing. But what about if she says it in private? We might think, Well, then the platforms are going to complain. But often regulated parties do not want to say that they have been coerced by the government into doing something against their interests, or that they were threatened. There’s often a conspiracy of silence. In those cases, it doesn’t seem to me as if there’s democratic accountability.
But, even when it is public, we’ve seen over the past year that government officials are writing letters to the platforms: public letters criticizing them, asking for information, badgering them, pestering them about their content-moderation policies. And we might think, Sure, people know that that’s happening. Maybe the government officials will face political accountability if it’s no good. But we might worry that, even then, if the behavior is sufficiently serious, if it’s repeated, it might give the officials too much power to shape the content-moderation policies of the platforms. From a First Amendment perspective, I don’t know why that’s off the table.
Now, from a practical perspective, you’re absolutely right. Courts have not wanted to get involved. But that’s really worrying. I think this desire to just let the political branches work it out has meant that, certainly with the social-media platforms, it’s been like the Wild West. There are no rules of the road. We have no idea what’s O.K. or not for someone in the White House to e-mail to a platform. One of the benefits of the order and the injunction is that it’s opening up this debate about what’s O.K. and what’s not.... This order and injunction go way too far, but I think the case is at least useful in starting a debate. Because up until now we’ve been stuck in this arena where there are important free-speech values that are at stake and no one is really doing much to protect them.
३२ टिप्पण्या:
"What's at stake when free speech harms the public?"
Free speech is absolute hambone. Now if you want someone to regulate speech, allow me to do so. Otherwise, shut your pie hole. How did we get to this point? (Rhetorical question - Read Lefties)
As an aside, insults and lies from presidential campaigns in the bygone era spared no one. How did we live through that?
“… Maybe the government officials will face political accountability if [their thuggish pressure tactics against the media companies are] no good.”
Funniest thing I’ve heard in years! Thanks.
But to advance that whole argument is to propose a straw man, not so? The issue of the Bully Pulpit is not what is being argued in this case, as I understand it. The issue does not concern pronouncements by Presidential spokesmen; the lawsuit concerns multiple government agencies, working behind the scenes, out of view and without oversight, to censor the Free Speech of both citizens and foreigners by removing their words and even suspending their accounts, without appeal.
And the Presidential Spokesman, and other Administration officials, initially hotly denied that this was happening at all, and might even have gotten away with it, if not for the 'Twitter Files' story. And the more that this story is being discussed, the more that is coming out. The FBI, working to advance censorship requests from foreign governments, in remarkably collusive emails to Facebook, Google, Twitter. And such denials imply that they knew it was wrong, yet wanted to preserve the function. We have our own Stasi, now. Every week we are hearing fresh stories about their overreach.
"This order and injunction go way too far, but . . ."
. . . when the Government has created and used procedures and routines for collaboration with like-minded private entities, to suppress dissent from their favored orthodoxy, then maybe taking a 2x4 to the head is the only way to get the attention of the censorship mule and get it to stop. This injunction is the 2x4.
Does anyone but Democrats fail to understand how the government compelling certain speech or silence violates the First Amendment?
Hmmm. What was it that famous Italian said about fascism?
"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
- Benito Mussolini
"But, even when it is public, we’ve seen over the past year that government officials are writing letters to the platforms: public letters criticizing them, asking for information, badgering them, pestering them about their content-moderation policies. And we might think, Sure, people know that that’s happening."
Malarkey. If all they hear from news and social media is the approved narrative, how would they know. At least in Russia, people knew (from experience) that Pravda and TASS were lying to them, but here we were preconditioned to trust news sources, even from social media. No, most people did not know it was happening.
The governement has no business, no authority, to regulate the speech of individuals. They are prohibited explicitly from doing so. That also means they can't tell companies to censor political opponents for them.. What is so damn hard to understand here, except that the Biden administration has been doing this and doesn't want to stop doing it, and the companies involved support Dems?
"...dramatically curtailed the federal bureaucracy's ability to communicate with Internet platforms." What seems to have been communicated was mainly "Toe the party line or else."
I agree secrecy is the big problem. If the regulators or the White House publicly say that so and so is a liar and should be banned from social media, then there can be public scrutiny of that demand. But when they sneak around and secretly ask for platform censorship, you get problems. The problems are (1) mission creep, going after domestic political enemies instead of foreign intelligence services, (2) partisan motives and (3) the government makes mistakes (e.g., about the origins of Covid). Public scrutiny greatly diminishes these problems.
This injunction doesn’t go far enough. The government has no right to control private speech. Period.
The Biden Administration's position is basically this- "We weren't applying pressure to censor critics of our policies- uh uh, no way- and it is wrong for the court to order us to stop doing this."
I don't for a second believe that they had to do any coercion at all- the social media companies were happy to do the censoring for which the government officials asked- read the fucking Twitter Files e-mails and texts if you don't believe me- the social media companies barely pushed back at all on the requests. A better injunction would have ordered the government and its staff to publicly release all communications with the media organizations- no private messages at all- everything public.
The Left, of course, are hypocrites. Had the social media companies been acquiescing to censoring, let's say, gun control advocates at the behest of the Trump White House and agency heads, Chotiner and Lakier would be singing a completely different tune today, and everyone with an IQ above 90 knows this to be the truth.
The left seems to think that there's a "misinformation" or "disinformation" exception to the First Amendment. I bet if you polled dems on whether it's constitutional for the government to pass laws punishing private citizens for spreading misinformation on important topics like public health, over 80% would say yes.
As evil as most leftists are, let's not forget just how ignorant and stupid they are as well. They all think the Constitution means "whatever WE want is okay."
The federal government is not allowed to restrict free speech except in very limited circumstances. This is explicit and non-negotiable. Breaking this covenant is an existential threat to the continuing existence of the country, other than as a tyranny. We have irrefutable evidence that the federal government did censor citizens with no legitimate purpose other than it was inconvenient to the lies they were pushing.
And yet we get "experts" who are wondering why this is a big deal.
Gawd, why must there even be a debate about this? It’s heartbreaking…
Ha! I remember when the A.C.L.U. argued the rights of Nazis to march as an expression of the First Amendment.
Ain't it funny how time slips away?
"The facts in the actual litigation are about the Biden administration, and one can expect New Yorker readers to lean toward approving of whatever Biden's people saw fit to do. So it's good to flip the facts."
Because NYer readers aren't savvy enough or fair-minded enough to make that switch in their own minds as they're reading and extrapolate the consequences if the administration belonged to the enemy party? Judging by the last 10-15 years, that's self-evidently true.
Who or what is preventing the Whitehouse from using a social media platform, just like any other user (sic), to send a message or make a statement?
"were not allowed to pass on the President’s message from the White House podium"
Obvious BS. A message from the WH ppodium doesn't need to be "passed on." The only reason to pass it on is to add an "or else."
"What’s at stake when free speech harms the public?"
As decided by our inferiors who patronize us.
"But often regulated parties do not want to say that they have been coerced by the government"
Meaning, prog government and the deep state. Has the GOP pressured any companies secretly?
"There’s often a conspiracy of silence. In those cases, it doesn’t seem to me as if there’s democratic accountability."
Well, of course. That's how the regime works."
"it might give the officials too much power to shape the content-moderation policies of the platforms. From a First Amendment perspective, I don’t know why that’s off the table."
Correct.
"This order and injunction go way too far."
How so? It documents government coercion extensively and tells officials to stop it while the issue is being sorted out, making an exception for actual national security matters.
Who's going to protect us from our protectors?
Continued outrage over things Trump did not do or say, but that liberals imagine he could have done.
he lawsuit concerns multiple government agencies, working behind the scenes, out of view and without oversight,
It is worse, because the agencies working behind the scenes are made up entirely of unaccountable career bureocrats (FBI, Fauci/NIH, etc.), so there is no chance of accountability through the ballot box.
"But the idea of blocking the White House press secretary from saying anything seems inconceivable to me."
What disingenuous bullshit. Read Doughty's decision. The Biden administration was twisting arms behind the scenes.
"We have no idea what’s O.K. or not for someone in the White House to e-mail to a platform."
Maybe when the White House has something to say, it should just say it. Just put it right out there, on the White House website, with "I'm what's left of Joe Biden and I improved this message". Instead of sending it sneaky-like, to one of their unpaid campaign workers.
"I like that Chotiner makes the hypothetical about Trump. The facts in the actual litigation are about the Biden administration, and one can expect New Yorker readers to lean toward approving of whatever Biden's people saw fit to do. So it's good to flip the facts."
Actually what Chotiner did was: a. Change the facts to make it look far less sinister than it is, and b. present it as a Trump hypothetical so that liberal listeners don't take the trouble to learn that the Biden Administration was censoring non-administration actors, instead of the accepting the chosen narrative that a "Trump" judge is trying to prevent the Biden administration from "expressing itself".
Obviously the usual suspects are awaiting their talking points.
So I will put this out there until one of them arrives.
Can you site a case where free speech has harmed the public?
A recent court ruling dramatically curtailed the federal bureaucracy’s ability to communicate with Internet platforms
Actually, a recent court ruling dramatically curtailed the federal bureaucracy’s ability to conspire with Internet platforms to deny disfavored people and groups from speaking in the public square.
A recent court ruling dramatically curtailed the federal bureaucracy’s ability to communicate with Internet platforms
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will someone fisk this : is this like traffice stop cop saying >> [you asshole] show me your license and registration and explain why you are speeching excessively freely ?
why don't bureaucracy use Internet platform as publicly as possible? and use official search warrants in other situation?
I like that Chotiner makes the hypothetical about Trump. The facts in the actual litigation are about the Biden administration, and one can expect New Yorker readers to lean toward approving of whatever Biden's people saw fit to do. So it's good to flip the facts
Lawyers are so fucking gross…
Nice platform you got there. Be a shame if anything happened to it.
We're somewhat missing the main point.
Take the Hunter Biden laptop. The NYPost published stuff from that source. A bunch of spooks and former spooks said that info was probably false Russian disinformation. OK, they're entitled to their opinion. But what was the media's response? The stuff from the Biden laptop got buried; hardly anyone even heard about it, or if they did, they heard no follow-up, so the story was dead.
We imagine that we have an "independent" press -- we see movies about the Pentagon Papers, and so forth, and we think that the "independent" press and media, etc. are out there fighting the ESTABLISHMENT to bring us the facts. But what the Twitter Files show us is not that the Government is imposing censorship on the media, but that the media is begging to be told what to say.
We don't have independent news media on major national issues anymore. The whole American nation has become a "one newspaper town".
The free marketplace of ideas is a problem for those who want to control who may talk about what and when.
If the defendant is not permitted to speak lest the jury pool be corrupted,then no one should be permitted to speak on that subject, lest the jury pool be corrupted the other way.
Now, how can that balance be done?
"But the idea of blocking the White House press secretary from saying anything seems inconceivable to me."
How are we 31 comments in and no one has brought up the great media freak out over Ari Fleischer saying people need to watch what they say?
I know that was nearly 22 years ago but I guarantee you the people upset with what this judge did were working journalists when Fleischer made his supposedly fascist suggestion.
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