Said wedding planner Xochitl Gonzalez, quoted in "Why Can’t We Quit Weddings? Marriages aren’t what they used to be. So why are weddings ever more wedding-like and deluxe?"
This is a conversation — transcript and audio at the link — and the interviewer is Hanna Rosin, who really seems to want to go deeply into the issue expressed in that headline. The headline drew me in, but I couldn't find any serious discussion of that question. There's nothing about the urge to cling to tradition because we are losing tradition and the relative significance of the tradition of marriage and the tradition of weddings.
पोस्ट्स
५६ टिप्पण्या:
Why can’t we just have a big party with our friends? Why should anyone take advice on having a good time from “The Atlantic”? If not having a big party is your preference, then why should others care?
Same exact scenario with me. Planning wedding, everyone meddling. Except we didn't break up, we just eloped to New Orleans and then had a reception upon our return. That was 28 years ago, and we still say it was one of the best things we ever did.
Instead of couples doing all the work why not do like committee ...
Exploratory, executive etc. From among invitees/attendees
“Marriages aren’t what they used to be.”
Who says?
Maybe the institution of marriage in society has changed from what it was 50 years ago, but I see many young marriages that look very similar to what my parents had. I see two people combining their lives and their futures to create a new family, usually with children. Sure, both parties may be employed, and they may more equally divide the housework and control, and they might even be the same gender, but they’re becoming a new unit, just like in the olden days.
"Social media seems to have changed the game for the average couple." That's it, the full extent of analysis from these two vapid Atlantic chicks. Beyond that, it's just anecdotes about supposed weird demands of super wealthy. "Fly in a Buddhist monk from Tibet." Really, how would that even be possible, I mean how would a US couple even have a name of, much less a spiritual relationship with, a monk in Tibet?
It’s a faulty premise by the Atlantic’s own standards. Among the upper middle class, marriages are as popular as ever; they know it’s the most reliable mechanism for passing wealth to the next generation.
A friend of mine's son just got engaged during an elaborately staged event, followed by a quote-unquote surprise party afterward at which all their friends were waiting...and watched video of the actual proposal that the hidden camera recorded. The party cost more than my wedding 40 years ago. The wedding itself, next April, is destined to be a Barnum and Bailey extravaganza. Why?
"Suddenly I turned around and she was standin’ there
With silver bracelets on her wrists and flowers in her hair
She walked up to me so gracefully and took my crown of thorns
“Come in,” she said, “I’ll give you shelter from the storm”
how much do weddings cost now?
how does it compare to a down payment on a house?
Which would be more useful for a couple (heck! which would be more useful for a bride?)
Hell, people are spending a fortune on children's birthday parties these days, a bar mitzvah's are Broadway-style productions - gotta keep up with the Jones'es!
We read about Bridezilla all the time, but in fact sometimes it’s the mother of the bride who’s the problem especially if, as is all too often the case, she knows precisely what buttons to press to get her daughter to fall into line. Worse scenario, one or more mothers thinks their kid can do better and wants to break it up. 48 1/2 years ago that was both our mothers! Worse, my mother raised a fuss if my wife (whose parents were paying) wanted something more elaborate — a better cake, a better photographer — than my younger sister had had at her wedding a couple years before.
But we made it. 17 months and 3 weeks from now we will celebrate our Golden Anniversary. Yes, as grad students we were married during the Christmas break between classes. Adds something special to the holidays each year.
Isn't this basically the plot of "You People"?
Interesting. I am videographer at a wedding tomorrow. Only the second one I've ever shot (I usually do sports, hobby groups, music videos, etc.). The last one I did went perfectly smoothly, with a young attractive couple. This one is a second marriage with adult children and their list of items to be sure to shoot was about 1/5th the size of the first one. Makes sense. The first one should get all the bells and whistles, if there is to be another, best to play it down.
The wedding itself, next April, is destined to be a Barnum and Bailey extravaganza. Why?
@cassandra, not your call. If they want an elaborate wedding, or an expensive destination wedding, or a simple pledge before the local justice of the peace, or a medium wedding nudist resort, it’s how they want to start their lives together. You can decide to join the celebration or not. Fifty years from now they won’t even remember you weren’t there.
Most people like tradition. Of course, women love change and want to be "fashionable". So there's the conflict.
If it was up to men, we wouldn't talk about changing weddings, we'd do the same thing forever.
Women
My favorite wedding (aside from our own) was for my wife's best friend. In our living room, with a family friend priest, the bride and groom, her son, and our kids. They were madly in love, in a weird situation regarding relatives, and really wanted to get married. They had twenty years of wedded ups and downs, never regretted it, had a kid together that they loved. Alas, he died too soon.
"So why are weddings ever more wedding-like and deluxe?"
Because women want Their Special Day. Somebody wants weddings to be the way they are and none of the guys I've ever known wanted an elaborate spectacle.
Sounds to me like the dude escaped two years of the mother in law from hell. And the marriage may survive if the young couple moves to a different continent far, far away from the bride's mother.
As for marriage (I've been married 58 years now) it is serious stuff. As you stand in a church you are making a promise before God. That doesn't necessarily mean you will keep it faithfully, but you do the best you can. And it is a sobering moment.
A customer of mine had four daughters; all drop dead gorgeous. He was a country boy who build a great business & wealth. He paid for two, then offered the other two $15,000 to elope (In 1992 that was a great house downpayment) Neither took it. First two got divorced within ten years, one had a husband who put 90,000 up his nose), and the youngest bought boobs because her husband wouldn't do her. FUBAR
"... we are losing tradition and the relative significance of the tradition of marriage and the tradition of weddings."
Of course we are. The sacrament of marriage has been a prime target of the Democrat/LGBT+ war on Christianity.
If not, civil unions would have been perfectly adequate for same sex couples. Also, extramarital sex keep the baby killing industry thriving.
My Spousal Unit and I were involved (and living together) for like 14 years before actually getting married so the actual doing of it didn't strike us as a big deal, so we'd planned to just have my old priest friend marry us on a vacation to Wisconsin. You know, travel down to where he lived, have a small ceremony in his church, no big deal.
Nuh-uh.
MIL and SIL were nuts. Much rending of garments. MIL insisted that she go, too, and be there. Also that there had to be equal numbers of guests on each side (which would be like 2 on each side). It turned out mostly okay, but what a PITA.
FIL didn't really care. It's a Woman Thing. Most of the time.
We had a little get together BBQ yard party for my peeps at my parents' house a couple days after, and then another, larger 'reception' about 2 months later. Since the chosen day fell on Oct. 30 we decided to make it a Halloween/costume party. THAT was fun.
There's nothing about the urge to cling to tradition because we are losing tradition and the relative significance of the tradition of marriage and the tradition of weddings.
It’s odd that I had that same feeling when homosexuals insisted that the concept of a marriage actually incudes two guys boning each other…til death do us part. And CELEBRATED for it. It’s only a matter of time when some Chuck-like character and his goat make the cover of Bridal Today
- Krumhorn
I helped put on two weddings: one by a local creek and one in our yard. And got babies!
Further note:
It's like so nostalgic for me to read someone who like talks like it's 1970.
RWNUTJOB - That's very sad.
I've made a similar (though, more modest) offer to my daughter. She's more inclined to take it since working at a center that hosted multiple wedding parties.
Making weddings more and more elaborate is a step back in progress.
Narcissism.
The social status of the families is what weddings are designed to show off. Everybody invited shares in the huge celebration and gets to WITNESS the two family’s merging to create new Hereditary power as the merged elite families just keep on going.
Romance can be involved, but that is never why so much money is getting spent.
We cater weddings regularly. After making stupid amount of money, and as a fully bonded member of the Wedding Industrial Complex, I tell anyone who wants to listen the same thing. Figure out how much money you want to spend on the wedding, divide that number by 2 and ask your parents for that amount of money in cash, assuming they have it to give. Then, go to a justice of the peace, or have credentialed person marry you in your living room. Then, use 5% of the money that they mom and dad gave you to throw yourselves a nice evening for close family and dear friends. Gifts, optional.
No ideal for my business model, but better for my soul's health and the health of the society as a whole. Of course, if you want to spend the equivalent of a house deposit on 8 hours of stress, single use clothes, booze and regrettable, forgettable gifts, I stand ready to accommodate you. Mazel Tov!
We cater weddings regularly. After making stupid amount of money, and as a fully bonded member of the Wedding Industrial Complex, I tell anyone who wants to listen the same thing. Figure out how much money you want to spend on the wedding, divide that number by 2 and ask your parents for that amount of money in cash, assuming they have it to give. Then, go to a justice of the peace, or have credentialed person marry you in your living room. Then, use 5% of the money that they mom and dad gave you to throw yourselves a nice evening for close family and dear friends. Gifts, optional.
No ideal for my business model, but better for my soul's health and the health of the society as a whole. Of course, if you want to spend the equivalent of a house deposit on 8 hours of stress, single use clothes, booze and regrettable, forgettable gifts, I stand ready to accommodate you. Mazel Tov!
People, but mostly women, are scrolling through IG and seeing engagement, bachlorette party, and wedding photos. Idealized, perfectly staged, unreal photos and the women think they need to have that. Or something even better.
It's crazy.
I recently looked at a Pew report on the number each year at age 40 who had never married. It was 16% in 1910, bottomed out in 1980 at 6% but then rose again to 25% in 2020. Now, a 40 yr old in 1980s was born in 1940, pre-Boomer. The Boomers do seem to have followed the historian below's observation (recorded in 1989) that Boomers were more like their grandparents. These modern weddings seem more a throw back to the pre-Boomer grandparents who did do the big wedding. Adjusted because social media does show that marriage is a losing proposition for most men. Something exacerbated by late marriage when both come to the merger with a fair amount of assets.
https://youtu.be/_cfkutdb__s?t=112
Massive, overblown weddings are not traditional for anyone other than the mega wealthy. Traditional weddings are held in your church and the reception was held in your church’s rec room or at your parents home. The food was made by your family. That is traditional. The giant consumerist weddings are not traditional. They are the symptom of traditional mores being discarded.
To save the planet from global warming, big weddings must cease.
2,000 years ago, a Jewish wedding would last a week. People took a week out of their lives to celebrate the wedding of a man and a woman(!)
It was a big deal (I think) because there was no reliable birth control back then. Weddings would result in babies.
So (my theory) the wedding was a powerful reminder of our connection with God, our creator. A husband and a wife was a reminder of Adam and Eve. A union of a man and a woman would create babies from nothing. Like God who created us.
So to recognize this awesome gift, the Jews celebrated weddings for seven days. As it was said that God created the universe, and the world, in seven days.
I could be wrong, of course. It's just my theory on why weddings were a 7-day party back then. It was to mark the creation of new life, and to celebrate.
I have attended many weddings in my life (at least 20 or so), including those of my three sisters- only one was really elaborate with more than 50 guests.
35 years ago I worked for a company that did things with helium balloons for weddings etc. Even at that time, the money spent just blew my mind. Most wedding were spending $5000+ on helium balloons, never mind the florist and the caterers. Some spent much more. The biggest spend I ever saw was a bar mitzva at the Biltmore hotel. They dropped over $15,000 on balloons, and that was the very least of it. The lucky kid had a knarled tree branch set up at the front of the hall and guests were hanging envelopes on it. I don't know what was in the envelopes, but I imagine it was impressive. Or perhaps it was something else altogether. I know nothing about bar mitzvas.
My father's rule was that the length of the marriage is inversely proportional to the cost of the wedding.
Elope and then let your family plan whatever ceremony they want for family to attend.
"So why are weddings ever more wedding-like and deluxe?"
Because people are not getting married, they are just having a wedding. It's an event, like going to DisneyWorld--expensive, not done very often. If they were getting married their emphasis would be different, focused on marrying.
We had a traditional wedding in my wife's home country. With all the gifts, cash and otherwise, we probably turned a profit.
Saint Croix: "2,000 years ago, a Jewish wedding would last a week." -- That's still common in many parts of the world. When Mrs. Genius and I lived in Kathmandu a couple of decades ago, our Hindu neighbors threw a wedding for their daughter. I think it was at least five days long, with many parties, clogged streets, ceremonial chanting, slaughtered animals, parading brass bands playing at all hours of night...
how much do weddings cost now?
.More than a keg, chips, buns, and some Hebrew Nationals!
Way more !!
I think my daughter is blowing at least $40k!
The wedding itself, next April, is destined to be a Barnum and Bailey extravaganza. Why?
Why not?
Why does it matter to you what they do? Does it impact you specifically? Are they causing harm?
My wife and I celebrated our 40th anniversary last month. We were married while we were still in college (although we were 'non-traditional' older students), so it was just us, 2 witnesses, and the minister. The same week we married, one of the big 3 news magazines had the cover story, "Big Weddings, They're Back." I wonder how many of those couples featured in the story are still married.
From my perspective, I believe people should spend more time planning their marriage than they do their wedding. A wedding is a brief service and a celebration afterwards. It's over in a few hours, perhaps with a honeymoon included. Ideally, a marriage lasts "until death do us part." Weddings are big business, but too much emphasis on "her day" just creates stress and potentially financial hardship. Why do that? People are free to do and spend what they want, but IMO they're not being smart.
Two daughters. Two weddings. Eight grandchildren. Pretty good ROI.
My future father-in-law offered to buy me a ladder while we were dating.
Some people when I say that don’t understand what it’s referring to.
And 6 months after we met we got married on the other side of the country. The next day I went to sea for two weeks…
4 months later we were back on the other coast and did it a priest in front of family and friends, with a small party in her family’s home.
It’s only been 45 years now. I think it’s going to last.
3 of 5 of our children got married. The one with a wife who insisted on a fancy wedding, well, she decided marriage wasn’t fulfilling. The son who did basically what we did is still married and up to 5 children. My daughter did a backyard ceremony that the groom’s brother catered.
My middlest son is having a fairly fancy wedding early next year. They’re both in their 30s and are financing it themselves.
Youngest is currently seriously seeing someone. We’ll see if that leads to anything.
In Atlanta the well educated and wealthy families from India will rent out the main banquet room at Ritz Carlton Buckhead and have 300 guests. No expense is spared including a live baby elephant attends (It honors the family god) and gifts of jewelry for the guests. Their family wealth is dedicated to putting on this event. Think Thorstein Veblen. I get to attend because I’m their lawyer
Big Mike said...
The wedding itself, next April, is destined to be a Barnum and Bailey extravaganza. Why?
@cassandra, not your call.
Jim at said...
Why not?
Why does it matter to you what they do?
Seems like cassandra IS NOT saying it's "her call",
seems like she's asking "Why". That's how I read it anyhow.
I'm ALSO wondering "Why" Also wondering: "what's the carbon footprint"
Less than $1,000.
Wife wore her mother’s wedding dress. I had a formal dinner suit that I never wore for its original intended purpose. Just us, siblings, and nieces and nephews (parents had passed). Niece did her hair (I got a Great Clips haircut). Niece’s friend photographed the wedding for cheap as we were her first customers in her photography business. Nieces and sisters helped with the decorations. Rented hall, preacher, and catering.
I don't understand how two adults can consciously spend so much money on a wedding. When that money would go a long way to reduce debt. Isn't a head start on live more important than impressing people you don't actually care about.
“ tcrosse said...
My father's rule was that the length of the marriage is inversely proportional to the cost of the wedding.”
I’ve suspected the exact same thing for many years.
Speaking from my 40 year marriage perspective, I think if you do these things, you can have a marriage that lasts:
1. Live up to you wedding vows. Honor and cherish your spouse, forsaking all others.
2. Keep the lines of communication open.
3. Come to agreement on the things that matter to you, such as family and finances.
4. Don’t die young.
I don't understand how two adults can consciously spend so much money on a wedding. .
Usually they force their families and friends to pay for it.
Weddings used to be about celebrating *God*, who joins two people together. Now, for women, it's about celebrating me! me! me! God, and even the groom, are almost incidental.
@gilbar, my point is that too damned many of us members of h. sapiens spend too damned much time worrying about (1) what other people say and do, and (2) how other people will perceive what we say and do. If it doesn’t directly or indirectly hurt you, ignore it. You’ll be happier. The fact that Althouse even posted about this pisses me off; how a young couple chooses to start their lives together is none of her business either.
The only time I ever much noticed the cost of a wedding was when the daughter of a friend raised a stink over her father spending “only” $67,000 on her wedding. My friend died of cancer during the pandemic — he was given 6 months to live but he kept it at bay for three years and was active and alert for most of that time. In support of tcrosse’s father’s rule, the marriage lasted less than three years, so less than he did.l after the diagnosis.
Outside of certain religious traditions, which are often ignored even by adherents, we have removed all elements obligations associated with marriage vows. Legally and socially there is no downside to initiating divorce for mild feelings of unhappiness. Many even believe it is acceptable to divorce if your spouse becomes ill and a burden.
So we're left with weddings as a symbol of a hollow commitment, and many choose to elevate the grandeur in an attempt to give meaning to an oath they do not themselves believe to be binding.
When a friend of mine's daughter got married he said "Here's your budget, you get a check for whatever is left after the wedding." It was a small tasteful ceremony and she and her new husband walked away with a decent beginning of a down payment on their first house.
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