Here's a CBS News report on the various passengers. Stockton Rush, the CEO of OceanGate, the company running the tour, is on board. You can imagine how his presence affects whatever experience the tourists may be having as the air supply diminishes.
२१ जून, २०२३
"The company said Suleman Dawood is a big fan of science fiction literature, plays volleyball and takes a keen interest in solving Rubik’s Cubes."
From "Two of the Passengers Are a Prominent Businessman and His 19-Year-Old Son/Shahzada Dawood and his son, Suleman, are aboard the missing submersible" (NYT).
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I think we now know why the sub went down and didn’t come back up:
“The CEO of OceanGate, which is operating the missing Titanic tourist submarine, explains that the company didn’t want to hire any experienced “50 year old white guys” because they weren’t “inspirational.”
"You can imagine how his presence affects whatever experience the tourists may be having as the air supply diminishes."
Ahh, what a filthy mind you have. Yes - One option immediately pops to mind, now that you've mentioned it.
Too bad Biden, Merrick, Maddow, Behar, and the rest of the on-air cast at Microsoft NBC are not down there.
On the flip side, the fly-by-night nature of the sub company is coming out, including their commitment not to hire 50-yr old white engineers.
And these people plopped down their cash to be taken far, far outside the 911 bubble. Sad, but living on the edge sometimes means you don't survive.
Titanic and Baby Titanic. Wealth and privilege be damned.
In the present case, there's no band to play on, no deck seating to rearrange and no precious lifeboat space. Tragic.
Safety issues were not unknown but deliberately made secondary to other priorities (coming soon to an airline, medical practice, power grid, police department or school near you).
Surely there was a system to notify those on the surface of 'difficulty'? Lack of information suggests the opposite or sudden catastrophic hull failure. Thrill-seekers gotta thrill-seek.
If they are detecting signs of life, then the list of “what went wrong” gets a bit smaller. The pressure hull would be in tact without flooding. Life support is working with some air and especially heat, otherwise they’d be dead from exposure to the cold. Also less sign of a fire of any size as that would contaminate the breathable air. That primarily leaves buoyancy. Supposedly they had a few options from dropping weights, purging ballast tanks, and the motors driving it to the surface. But if they are not bobbing on the surface hoping to be found and unbolted before they run out of air, then they are on the bottom of the sea. If they can’t make it to the surface on their own, it is unlikely anything else can drag them to the surface anytime soon.
Perhaps they should have done more testing, preferably with a tether, before they sold tickets. The CEO might have thought the worst case scenario was death, but how you die can be degrees worse. Shame, because if the vessel is intact and they lasted this long, then they were very close to having a good design for a deep sea vessel. Here, being humble might have helped.
Too bad Ann Heche is not aboard.
The company president could spend the rest of his life listening to her use up the air supply.
https://youtu.be/XQyEKyGBX8k
From Wag the Dog. A great movie if you've not seen it watch it
John lgb Henry
Remind me to move “take a sub down to the titanic” down to the last thing on my bucket list
Imagining what that is like... is heart breaking.
It's easy to mock the jerk who skirted safety - and the people who think their money can buy anything.... but these people are about to die. Horrible.
that said- why anyone would find that sort of travel alluring es beyond.
it's a sunk ship... get over it. There are plenty of photos and images from previous brave expositions.
Prayers for a miracle.
Reading the description of the sub design, it sounds like the most likely scenario is hull rupture. They were dead in seconds.
Much hay will be made of Rush’s statement about wanting young diverse inspirational people over older white males on his design team, but I don’t see anything in his quote to suggest he compromised talent to get there. Especially given that he himself is among the passengers.
I’m seeing a shocking degree of “how stupid did they have to be to go?” and to a lesser degree “those rich fools had it coming to them!” Twitter-dunking on these poor souls, but what they’re experiencing right now (if they’ve not already perished) can only be horrific. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy, much less strangers.
- Rafe
“Stockton Rush, the CEO of OceanGate, the company running the tour, is on board. You can imagine how his presence affects whatever experience the tourists may be having as the air supply diminishes.”
I imagine he’s not breathing anymore, so that should extend the air supply.
As part of the mildly claustrophobic tribe, a submersible was never an option. But being trapped in that tiny space with 4 others would be terrifying for me. Better a catastrophic hull breach immediately after the CEO says "Hey, does that sound like rivets popping?"
Too bad Ann Heche is not aboard.
The company president could spend the rest of his life listening to her use up the air supply.
https://youtu.be/XQyEKyGBX8k
From Wag the Dog. A great movie if you've not seen it watch it
John lgb Henry
"You can imagine how his presence affects whatever experience the tourists may be having as the air supply diminishes."
And vice versa.
The distance from Earth to Mars just got a lot longer.
Suleman likes to solve Rubik's cubes....
Stop the presses!
The fact that multiple lines of communication were lost at the same time tells me there was a catastrophic event that took them instantly. I think that's why officials are taking a pessimistic tone. I'd love to be wrong.
I originally read that the Titan submersible had a 72 hour air supply for its passengers. This morning I read that it submerged with up to 96 hours of breathable air (though I see that no one is offering a definition of “breathable” nor do they indicate what steps the crew and passengers need to take to stretch their air supply).
At any rate, if the five of them are still alive they’ll run out of of breathable air in the early morning hours of tomorrow. There can still be hope.
I think the behavior among the ultra-rich tracks the pathologies of the ultra-poor. Look at Hunter! He's a drug addict, a super gross philanderer (his dead brother's wife!) and he's lazy slob as well.
Taking a trip to visit the Titanic 2.5 miles below the ocean surface is another example of the ultra rich doing stuff that we would consider crazy if done by poor people or, even, normal people. Too much money, too much free time.
I can only imagine the guilt the father must feel, having brought his son on a trip that will almost surely mean his death.
Hoping hoping hoping they are rescued.
The British businessman is referred to as a billionaire in the British press, but Forbes magazine noted that he's not included on its list of the world's richest people.
I will attest that Forbes list is perpetually and horribly inaccurate…
Talk about a rough day at work. I guess he'd be a steadying presence in the first few moments of the catastrophe, but not so much as the realization of doom crept in. I guess we'll never know how it played out, but it's quite a dramatic scenario.
I'm sorry for the people in the submersible; I hope a rescue occurs, but there is so little room for error.
I can think of few things more terrifying. I start to feel panic watching the video graphic of the depth of the ocean floor.
The "not hiring 50 year old white men" is not the reason for the failure. Plenty of failures by persons in that demographic. Further, I haven't seen evidence that those hired are not qualified (youth does not mean unqualified). The statements about those hired and the inspiration that they give are just window dressing to make them appear to be "forward thinking" or whatever other platitude you can come up with that dominates today's focus on feelings instead of purely qualifications/capabilities. Seriously, why did the CEO think that not having middle-aged white men was important enough to mention in an interview? Because peoples' perceptions of the beliefs of the company matters? Silliness pure and simple...
The reason appears to be bad decisions especially regarding testing the capabilities of the submersible at depth. Not the first, or the last, time that schedule (testing will take too long) trumps safety.
I too hope & pray that they are rescued.
Maybe he took a Rubik's cube with him to pass the hours.
It's a nobody cares news story, expanded into three breathless parts. We're in the hope part. Clicks rule.
I suspect sharks.
Now I am rooting for them to be rescued, just to hear the story. Hopefully they killed the CEO to save oxygen and buy time.
Alfred Hitchcock made a b/w 1944 movie out of a John Steinbeck story about the survivors of a u- boat sinking. It’s an intellectually challenging story called Lifeboat. And it’s 100% about this situation.
Who do they throw overboard that the others will live???
That was about water and in todays story its about oxygen. No great stars in Lifeboat but for Tallulah Bankhead who puts on a great performance.
I first saw this when I was 10. It stunned me. By the way, one survivor is a secret Nazi enemy.
For every 33 feet (10.06 meters) you go down in depth underwater, the pressure increases by one atmosphere.
Their "window" was rated for only 1/3 of that pressure. Even though it was probably over-engineered for that rating, you would be pushing the limits of the most conservative engineer's design and materials.
"I don’t see anything in his quote to suggest he compromised talent to get there."
Tossing out a substantial segment of the highly experienced people that could have performed the task...increases the likelihood of "compromised talent".
Doing so due to age and race....
including their commitment not to hire 50-yr old white engineers.
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so this sub expedition was re-enacting what the 'top-men driving the titanic' had done earlier?
rejahm said...
I will attest that Forbes list is perpetually and horribly inaccurate…
Heard said that 30 years ago it took $200 million to make the Forbes list. Today that number is over $3 billion
Too bad Ann Heche is not aboard.
She's already dead.
Shahzada Dawood and his teenage son, Suleman, are the Pakistani faces of white privilege.
And did affirmative action hiring result in this predicament?
The OceanGate CEO who is trapped on a 22-foot submersible on an ill-fated voyage to see the Titanic wreck once explained how he didn’t hire “50-year-old white guys” with military experience to captain his vessels because they weren’t “inspirational.” https://nypost.com/2023/06/21/why-stockton-rush-didnt-hire-50-year-old-white-guys-for-titanic-sub-tours/
Who needs qualifications and merit when diving to the ocean floor? Apparently not OceanGate. Which is a great name for a scandal, BTW.
Natural selection works in mysterious ways.
I'm really hoping that this story has a happy ending. I spent a number of years in IT sales. Every company of any size had a disaster recovery plan. I wonder if this company (OceanGate) has one.
"Now I am rooting for them to be rescued, just to hear the story. Hopefully they killed the CEO to save oxygen and buy time."
An honorable man would have committed seppuku.
Plenty of hubris aboard this one, just like the first time.
Much hay will be made of Rush’s statement about wanting young diverse inspirational people over older white males on his design team, but I don’t see anything in his quote to suggest he compromised talent to get there. Especially given that he himself is among the passengers.
It's a bit late for him to complain about diversity and its benefits.
I don't know why hearing again that Ann Heche is dead depresses me again. If she wanted to take all of my money, she probably would have gotten it.
"Yes, you guessed it. Yusheng Du solved the Rubik’s Cube in 3,47 seconds-- a world record! While, for some of us, solving a Rubik’s Cube with both hands might not prove difficult enough, Feliks Zemdegs holds the record for the fastest one-handed solve in 6.88 seconds. Jakub Kipa solved the Cube with his feet in an ..."
I hope I'm wrong, but I think everyone aboard has earned a Darwin Award.
BTW, a little off topic but not too much...diversity is not strength. Single-mindedness is strength. Who cares about the other stuff? We can have all genders, ethnicities, and hairstyles...but if they have competing goals it weakens us not strengthens us. Whatever your goal as a company, find people aligned with your goal and qualified and forget about the other stuff...
The reason appears to be bad decisions especially regarding testing the capabilities of the submersible at depth.
The people they didn’t hire were ex-military submariners. The kind of people who would think through the necessary testing.
They hired people with an aerospace experience e and mentality instead.
On a blog issue, moderation should be time linear. Approving comments in a non-linear time fashion makes keeping up with comments (which I value) more difficult. Not sure what the moderation procedure is, please do not read this as overly critical, just an observation.
I know Ann Heche is dead (under allegedly mysterious circumstances)
But her rant against Dustin Hoffman and Robert deniro after their plane crashes in a cornfield "What the fuck are you going to do now Mr big shot know-it-all producer..." is so epic I'd reincarnate her temporarily just to hear her berate the ocean gate president along similar lines.
John lgb Henry
This story so loaded with symbolism. The first Titanic lies there - a huge iron and steel monument to the hubristic errors of 50-year-old experienced white men. Next to it lies the second Titanic - a little plastic pendant ball. It is a monument to the hubristic errors of the DEI hiring process and DEI hires. An experimental diving vessel is built by inexperienced young men and women who go along with the errors of a company CEO though they know that the vessel is intended to take real people into real danger. Or - do the DEIs know it? Do they think the bottom of the Atlantic is Disneyland or a VR trip? There the two vessels lie next to each other. 20th century. 21st century.
"I don't know why hearing again that Ann Heche is dead depresses me again. If she wanted to take all of my money, she probably would have gotten it."
Mine too.
traditionalguy, I just watched Lifeboat on your recommendation. Very good movie, great cast and of course Tallulah Bankhead. Her performance “won her the New York Film Critics Circle award. A beaming Bankhead accepted her New York trophy and exclaimed:’Dahlings, I was wonderful!’” And she was!
This post reminds me a bit of the post about scammers. These folks weren’t scammed but it looks like they fell victim to some bad choices. All educated, wealthy, successful - with a lifetime of good decisions behind them (I’m assuming). And yet here something blinded them to the danger that in hindsight we think was obvious. Was it the lure of adventure, bragging rights, curiosity, fascination with the Titanic, dopamine addiction, overconfidence? Anyway I hope they’re found alive and well.
Next May, they will be climbing Everest again.
I have no sympathy for fools perishing on these endeavors.
You pay your money, you take your chances.
Eva Marie, I enjoyed your comments. Meeting a nice person on the internet is a rare privilege. The Professor is nice too. But she runs a tight ship.
Mad as Hell--I was thinking about that Jon Krakaur book about Everest as well. Into Thin Air.
In an interview two years ago, Harding acknowledged the risks and dangers of underwater expeditions after he had traveled with U.S. explorer Victor Vescovo more than two and a half miles along the floor of the Mariana Trench, 35,876 feet below the sea surface.
========
at least one person on this sinking tub had previously gone down to great depths.
did they use the same tub-sub?
did he ask for 2nd opinion on his own death-sentence suicide attempt??
When this morning brought no good news, this atheist was reminded of Psalm 107, verses 23 & 24:
23 They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters;
24 These see the works of the Lord, and his wonders in the deep.
Godspeed five explorers.
Why didn't this craft have a fail-safe position signaling system?
Kevin hit it with comment #1 about the company's refusal to hire any experienced “50 year old white guys”
I'm sorry for his customers, but I will enjoy great schadenfreude if he dies because of his bigotry
"I imagine he’s not breathing anymore, so that should extend the air supply."
If survival by any means necessary was you goal, the best course of action would be to kill the other passengers as quickly and stealthily as possible.
(double posted?)
"The "not hiring 50 year old white men" is not the reason for the failure."
How do Progressives square their prejudices against old people with their love of labor unions use of seniority?
TJ said...
The "not hiring 50 year old white men" is not the reason for the failure
Yes, it is
Plenty of failures by persons in that demographic.
Far MORe failures from "engaging 20 somethings" who have no or very little experience, especially compared to those boring ex-military 50 year old white males
Further, I haven't seen evidence that those hired are not qualified
Yes, we do.
People who hire the most qualified employees don't discriminate on race or sex or age, so don't say things like "I'm not going to hire 50 year old white males"
The reality of the matter is that a 50 year old white male former submariner in the US Navy knows a lot more about those kind of submersibles than does any 25 year old, of any skin color or sex
"I prective affirmative action / DEI" == "I hire unqualified people, not the best people"
The reason appears to be bad decisions especially regarding testing the capabilities of the submersible at depth
Which his 50 year old white male former submariners would have pointed out.
But he hired ignorant 25 year olds instead
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