१७ जून, २०२३
"In August 1969, he went to a War Resisters League meeting at Haverford College in Pennsylvania and heard a speaker, Randy Kehler, proudly announce..."
"... that he was soon going to join his friends in prison for refusing the draft. Profoundly moved, Mr. Ellsberg had reached his breaking point.... 'I left the auditorium and found a deserted men’s room,' he said. 'I sat on the floor and cried for over an hour, just sobbing. The only time in my life I’ve reacted to something like that.' Mr. Ellsberg began to oppose the war openly.... He also resigned from RAND, under pressure.
With Anthony J. Russo Jr., a RAND colleague he had met in Vietnam, Mr. Ellsberg, who had a top-secret security clearance, photocopied the 47-volume Pentagon study. Still believing he could work within the system, Mr. Ellsberg in 1970 gave partial copies to Senator J. William Fulbright, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, and others in Congress. All cautiously refused to act.
Frustrated, disillusioned and aware that he might be committing a crime and could be sent to prison, Mr. Ellsberg approached Neil Sheehan, a veteran New York Times correspondent he had met in Vietnam, with the documents....."
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And it made such a difference! Ever since then, the U.S government has been totally honest and transparent just like all the other governments of the world.
Wait till they get a load of the Ukraine papers. $800+ billion and counting to cover-up a Biden money-laundering influence-peddling operation. I'm sorry. Apologies. All I hear is the sound of crickets chirping. My bad.
and WHAT? did those pentagon papers ACTUALLY show?
That LBJ and the democrats were f*cked up liars?
the war was FINALLY getting better, now that Nixon was in charge; but NOBODY wanted to hear THAT
Even so, it was true.
We've a long history of what Dwight D. Eisenhower called the military industrial complex. Eisenhower warned of the dangers of the growing relationship between the military and the defense industry. Stating the combination of these two powerful forces could lead to the "disastrous rise of misplaced power."
Ellsberg was calling this out 50 years ago. We're deeper into it than ever. The difference is that today, there's no feigning of hiding it. It's right out there, in your face. And it has expanded to include all of our intelligence gathering departments and Justice departments, as well as our media, into the fold. They are all working on their own agenda, seemingly needing us only for the dollars we send in, or rather, they take from us to support their businesses, both domestically and abroad.
This is not how this country was set up. It is not functioning as a Constitutionally Limited Republic in any way. And one wonders how long it can keep going like this before either a new revolution happens, or we simply cave and become sheep living under authoritarians.
I mean...when a rutabaga like Joe Biden can play a front man for this cabal, I'd say they've pretty much locked things up.
OK, so TODAY, for the correct people, stealing, possessing, and disseminating classified materials is a wonderful and heroic thing.
Tomorrow we can get back, for the wrong people, to demanding the guillotine for people who retain a handful of papers.
Never mentioned in any of hagiographies is Ellsberg’s role in getting the US deeper into the war. Working in the Pentagon under John McNaughton, generally regarded as Robert McNamara’s closest advisor, he helped suppress information that would have cast doubt on American strategy and on the idea that escalation was the answer.
For the record, I do not believe for a second the story of Ellsberg’s epiphany after meeting Randy Kehler at Haverford College in 1969. Kehler may have been the first draft resister that Ellsberg met face to face, but war resisters were scarcely a new phenomenon by 1969.
I always found it odd that Nixon went after Ellsberg.
Not wrong.
Nobody is above the law when it comes to national defense documents.
But odd since they only went up to 1967 or so and had nothing to do with nixon et al. They do expose the horribleness of his political opponents esp lbj & JFK. Nixon could have done a lot of point scoring with them.
But instead he tried to keep them hidden.
John lgb Henry
Full text, 7000 pages, is available here
https://www.archives.gov/research/pentagon-papers
John lgb Henry
When the subject of the Pentagon Papers comes up, it's always good to recall that one of the senators Ellsberg approached was George McGovern. MdGovern was interested in making them public until he realized that doing so would likely hamper his planned run for the presidency. So the great antiwar McGovern, whose campaign was built on getting out of 'Nam, was more devoted to his own career than to dying soldiers.
Same guy who penned an oped after he left office, decrying the laws he'd passed or voted for that, to his shock and surprise, had contributed to making it so foolishly difficult to start a small business, like the bed 'n breakfast he and his wife had wanted to open in S. Dakota.
The Biden and Hillary corruption - dutifully ignored by the hack press.
Now do Edward Snowden!
What a difference a few decades make. Today's NYT would call the FBI and help capture a leaker.
With Trump's indictment juxtaposed against the hagiography of Ellsberg, perhaps we can also cure the clean energy shortage by harnessing the power of the latter spinning in his grave?
Can anyone identify the date when protest went from patriotic to treasonous? My money is on January 20th, 2021.
Off the top of your head, can any commenters or Althouse give me the top three reveals of the papers?
"Can anyone identify the date when protest went from patriotic to treasonous? My money is on January 20th, 2021." -Cappy
Dissent = patriotism, January 20, 2001
Dissent = treason/Espionage Act violation, January 20, 2009
Dissent = patriotism, January 20, 2017
Dissent = treason, January 20, 2021
Cappy said...
Can anyone identify the date when protest went from patriotic to treasonous? My money is on January 20th, 2021.
6/17/23, 9:09 AM
No. January 6th, 2021. A peaceful protest except for the FBI aligned instigators
Cappy said...
Can anyone identify the date when protest went from patriotic to treasonous? My money is on January 20th, 2021.
6/17/23, 9:09 AM
No. January 6th, 2021. A peaceful protest except for the FBI aligned instigators.
If he had known, would Ellsberg's conscience have decreed that he expose the deceit of Walter Kronkite and other mediaswine about the Tet Offensive.
How many casualties did Ellsberg and Kronkite, et al, cause?
as the tale is told, ellsberg was dallying with the mistress of a Corsican kingpin, who got wind of the arrangment and lansdales men, including conein expedited him out of the country, this was around 65, then he went back to Rand, like with other figures, he sifted the cables that best made his point, and ignored the other ones,
My goodness how far the NYTimes and the mainstream media have fallen. Now they would have acted to keep the information hidden to gain political power.
Nixon made a mistake by going after Ellsberg. As was so often the case, he thought he was defending the righteous cause but all he was defending was Johnson's manipulation of facts to get us deeper into Vietnam. By trying to do the right thing, he made himself vulnerable to the FBI coup.
Vietnam, Korea, WWW II, WWW I, World War Springs... Has there ever been a time of full disclosure?
No. January 6th, 2021. A peaceful protest except for the FBI aligned instigators.
A Whitmer-event c/o Pelosi, her poodles, and Democrat "heroes".
Thanks John Henry. Senator Gravel published the most complete set before then. Used that to research my college thesis on an aspect of the long running misadventure.
Cassandra, I commend to you a 2005 documentary on McGovern focused on the 1972 run. One Bright Shining Moment. Inspirational guy.
so, these "pentagon papers" were Classified documents.. about National Security???
And this Elsburg guy didn't just take them; he released them to the russians, via the NYTs?
How did all This fit into the "Espionage Act"? why, EXACTLY did he not die in jail?
Is it because he was NOT Donald Trump? Asking for a friend
Watching the deep state in action over the past seven years has changed my mind. I used to think Ellsberg was a traitor. I am rethinking that. We need to oppose govt power and control using any an all means short of murder (which they readily resort to). Elect people committed to fighting the deep state who have already had success.
Idealists are dangerous, and disillusioned idealists are the most dangerous ones of all.
Ellsberg had been totally gung-ho for Team America: World Police.
I always thought Ellsberg was unstable. The security state has always wanted to keep its machinations invisible. He ran right into that imperative.
Of course, what Ellsberg did, the Times recoils from today. What did happen on J6? Who is Ray Epps? What happened at that Wuhan Lab? Whistleblowers have the goods on Biden family bribe operation? Look away! Look away!
The Pentagon Papers were a Kennedy/Johnson Administration problem that Nixon managed through prior restraint litigation to make into a Nixon Administration problem. AND, Nixon's plumbers' (stop the leaks) early escapades included burglarizing Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office to get discrediting info on him.
In a very real way, Ellsberg got Nixon removed from office while Nixon was trying to end the Vietnam war. Of course, Nixon gave Ellsberg a lot of help with the project.
Hey, does anyone know where all the money sent to Ukraine got spent? And what the US military is doing for Ukraine? Asking for a friend.
I'd really like to see the Russians pushed back to their own post-Soviet borders, and I don't think revelations similar to the Pentagon Papers would assist that effort, based on the malfeasance, grift and graft of recent decades in the US government, even before considering the possible corruption of eastern European post-Soviet governments.
'I left the auditorium and found a deserted men’s room,' he said. 'I sat on the floor and cried for over an hour, just sobbing. "
A little melodramatic, wouldn't you say. Can anyone cry for over an hour?
Today's NYT would call the FBI and help capture a leaker.
@Lem, only if a Democrat is in the White House.
https://www.newsweek.com/government-keeps-lying-us-about-ukraine-where-outrage-opinion-1806332
Lars.
That's a waste. Simply say, "PENTAGON PAPERS" with wide-eyed I-can't-believe-this faux outrage. End of discussion. Phil Donahue perfected the act.
Lars. Waste of time. Simply say< Pentagon Papers" with an act of wide-eyed can't-believe-this outrage. Works every time. Phil Donahue perfected the act.
Maybe Trump should have leaked some of his classified documents to the NYT or the Guardian, but I don't think the intelligence services ever let him see documents pertaining to the nefarious things they were up to....I wonder if Ellsberg would have leaked those papers if Humphrey was in the White House and trying to get out of Vietnam on honorable terms.
They didn’t oppose the war, they opposed the draft.
Somehow he didn't end up living in Moscow.
RIP
Odd that Ellsberg worked for the Kennedy-Johnson administration for years without protesting, but as soon as a Republican got in the White House he became a dissenter and a leaker. Equally odd is the fact that at the same time the media is expressing its admiration for Ellsberg, it is loudly cheering on the prosecution of someone who held on to some classified documents, but didn't leak them.
A week or two back someone had mentioned David Halberstam's 1979 book The Powers that be and I am currently about 30%. Excellent and thanks to whoever recommended it. It is about the mainstream media.
It has some discussion of the Pentagon papers but I've joy got there yet.
I had read his best and brightest back in the 70s and remember it hazily but also remember as being pretty good. I've been thinking of rereading it next.
I also read and recommend his "the reckoning" his 1986 book about Nissan and Chrysler.
John LGB Henry
..I wonder if Ellsberg would have leaked those papers if Humphrey was in the White House and trying to get out of Vietnam on honorable terms.
That assumes that the Hump would have tried to get us out. On honorable terms of otherwise.
Would he have?
John LGB Henry
Blogger Richard said...
Lars. Waste of time. Simply say< Pentagon Papers" with an act of wide-eyed can't-believe-this outrage. Works every time. Phil Donahue perfected the act.
6/17/23, 12:14 PM
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Yep...repeated and repeated without a clue
". . . and found a deserted men’s room,' he said. 'I sat on the floor and cried for over an hour, just sobbing"
Yeah, really, I believe that. I really mean it. I mean I really, really believe that he sat on the piss-saturated tiled floor crying for who knows what. It's happened to so many of us.
Ellsberg and a friend who helped with the copying were indicted under the espionage act. During the trial in LA it came out that the government had wiretapped at least one defense team conversation. The trial judge, Nixon appointee, took no action, but Justice Douglas stayed the trial while an application was made to the full court. It refused to hear, 7-2, but trial judge declared mistrial based on the delay. During the second trial came the revelation of the break-in of Ellsberg's psychiatrist. At this point judge dismissed the charges.
It also came out that Erlichman had approached the judge about becoming FBI director during the prosecution. Needless to say, appointment not forthcoming. Judge's reputation never fully recovered. A pity. He was a good judge; I had a case with him. How I came to learn of these events of quarte-century earlier.
Richard, Lars, please tell me what you're talking about. There have been a lot of opinions expressed about Ellsberg and the PP here, and I'm missing the target of the 'waste of time'
comment.
I'm old enough to remember Phil Donahue but not finding the connection clear. I watched him rarely.
Melodramatic???
"I'll take Things That Never Happen for $500, Alex!"
Blogger Narr said...
Richard, Lars, please tell me what you're talking about. There have been a lot of opinions expressed about Ellsberg and the PP here, and I'm missing the target of the 'waste of time'
comment.
-----------------------------------------------
Can you name three big factual reveals from the Pentagon Papers. What facts about the Vietnam War did it disclose? The narrative is always "Oh, the Pentagon Papers!! The Pentagon Paper!!"
What classified info was in the Pentagon Papers...off the top of your head without researching.
"Never mentioned in any of hagiographies is Ellsberg’s role in getting the US deeper into the war. Working in the Pentagon under John McNaughton, generally regarded as Robert McNamara’s closest advisor, he helped suppress information that would have cast doubt on American strategy and on the idea that escalation was the answer.
"For the record, I do not believe for a second the story of Ellsberg’s epiphany after meeting Randy Kehler at Haverford College in 1969. Kehler may have been the first draft resister that Ellsberg met face to face, but war resisters were scarcely a new phenomenon by 1969."
Ellsberg never tried to hide his previous mindset or actions that aided the war effort. And something indisputably changed his mind, hence his risking prison by covertly photocopying the Pentagon Papers and then releasing them to the public. So, what is the basis of your skepticism, and, assuming Ellsberg was lying, why did he lie and what changed his mind?
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