Writes Gail Collins in "Repulsed by Biden vs. Trump? Tough" (NYT).
I said it a week ago: All I can think of is rooting for Bobby and Vivek.
It was bad enough to go through the 2020 campaign once and it's bad to go through any presidential campaign twice, but to go through the 2020 campaign twice is just such an outrage. Why aren't people kicking and screaming as we're dragged into this?!
Gail Collins belabors what, of course, I already knew was the answer to my question. Just put up with the disgusting reality that we've got 2 parties, they do their thing, and you obediently vote for the better of the 2, even though Ralph was right and they're both terrible.
CORRECTION: This post originally had Ruth Marcus for Gail Collins. I need to think about why I'd merged these 2 writers!
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I'm very excited to hear Vivek speak in Iowa next week. Impressive guy. And no baggage. A complete outsider.
My dream contest? Bobby v. Vivek.
Sure. Let the Progressives get away with all their corruption since 2015. Give Obama who "fundamentally changed America" a pass. We deserve what we get, when we do NOTHING about their corruption. Keep dreaming that America is coming back, because it isn't.
Gore didn't win his home state of Tennessee. If he had, he'd have been president. Nader's right. (But fuck him about the Corvair. My mom had one for 11 years.)
Nader is correct. Gore lost because he was a bad candidate--he didn't even win his own state--helped along by some Republican political skullduggery in Florida--and Trump and Biden were both terrible candidates. I voted like Nader...for someone other than the major party turkeys.
Tough = the left know that Trump is a Democrat get out the vote machine.
So "tough" = "yay"
"Why aren't people kicking and screaming as we're dragged into this?!"
What are we supposed to do about it? Outrage and a couple of bucks will buy you a cup of coffee.
"Nader is correct. Gore lost because he was a bad candidate"
I don't buy it. Gore was a terrible candidate, but Nader is being disingenuous. President Gore would have won Florida if not for Nader.
>"Donald Trump’s terrible and Joe Biden’s boring."<
Yeah, that's the big problem with Joe Biden - he's boring.
And Gail Collins broadcasts to me right there that reading the rest of her article would be a waste of my time.
It's too bad Al Gore didn't win. He could have prevented Katrina, and the ice caps wouldn't have disappeared.
Bobby v Vivek would be interesting. It'll also never happen.
Get ready for President Biden campaigning from his Basement again, and the Media looking the other way as that happens.
Trump and Biden are terrible in that both are odious human beings, but the Trump Administration produced many results that were indisputably good for the country. The Biden Administration is destroying the country.
Trump may have engaged in some shady business practices, but Biden is a grifter who has breached the public trust.
The great gift of both is that they have exposed the immortality of the news media and the Democrat Party elite and the indifference of rank and file Democrats to it.
Original Mike said...President Gore would have won Florida if not for Nader.
I voted for Nader because Gore didn't earn my vote (Bush was my more likely 2nd choice, but he didn't earn my vote either). This notion that Nader cost Gore the election is built around the presumption that Gore was entitled to my vote and Nader stole it away. He wasn't and he didn't. Whine all you want; Gore lost because he deserved to.
the disgusting reality that we've got 2 parties, they do their thing, and you obediently vote for the better of the 2,
That is true, and it will continue to be true for exactly as long as we are willing to go along with it. For however long we are willing to vote for the lesser of two evils, that is precisely how long we will be presented with two evils to choose between. We, as a people, it's our own fault.
What has Trump ever done wrong besides say and tweet "mean things" that made you feel bad?
So we all hate both parties but cannot do without them, and any attempt to create a viable third party would inevitably help one or the other of the hated parties, which keeps us from being able to do anything? What a country!
The idealistic left was splitting away from the establishment-business left in 2015 when Bernie severely tested Hillary. If not for Trump's 2016 win, the wing with AOC and "Tax the 1%" would have certainly split from the Pelosi-Schumer-Silicon Valley-Bloomberg-Wall St corporate kickback faction.
The future functioning of the USA likely depends on those with genuine ethics breaking away and challenging establishment (left and right) sleaze. It could be a centrist Ross Perot faction or a Joe Manchin faction, etc.
>Writes Ruth Marcus in "Repulsed by Biden vs. Trump? Tough" (NYT).<
Am I missing something? The writer is Gail Collins.
how does one look at this utter dumpsterfire that we are left with, and say well trump and biden are the same,
Is all this bitching about the campaign, or the administration?
Seriously, how much was there to bitch about the Trump presidency other than rhetorical flourishes and, not unconnected, him being undermined constantly at every turn by the Deep State?
Look, Marcus is a Democrat hack. She'll complain a bit - WHEN IT DOESNT MATTER - about how "terrible" Biden is, but she'll support him 1000 percent when the chips are down.
This is just standard Liberal/left Democrat behavior.
BTW, I voted for Nader in 2000. I hated both Bush and Gore. And still don't think it made any real difference who got elected. Gore would've invaded Iraq too.
Anyway, Biden is exactly what "Reasonable moderates" wanted in 2020. And they'll get the same in the 2024. Please spare me the fake complaints about how bad he is. Reasonable mods could have supported Trump in 2020, and had he been re-elected, he'd almost be out of office and their long Trump nightmare would be over. But they had to go into hysterics.
Over Nothing. Since Trump just gave us peace and prosperity.
Yes, of course they're both terrible. But the basic corruption of the American system is to focus presidential votes on people. It nicely exploits voter ignorance.
Of course there are lots of good reasons people aren't "screaming." Progs like the way Joe does their bidding, and Trumpists would rather go down with Trump in a middle-finger protest vote. Does any Dem dislike anything Joe has done, or rather, that has been done with Joe in office?
"Whine all you want; Gore lost because he deserved to."
Whine? If I met Nader I would shake his hand and buy him a beer. But Gore didn't need your specific vote. It's hard to believe that if Nader hadn't been in the race Gore wouldn't have garnered 537 (or whatever the exact total was) more votes.
Wendybar: "We deserve what we get, when we do NOTHING about their corruption. Keep dreaming that America is coming back, because it isn't."
Food for thought: How does America come back?
God could bring America back, but why would he? The Republicans and/or Democrats? Not a chance!
If we could some how take the politics out of selecting a candidate, we might be able to get an upstanding president, but there are just too many power centers that must be coddled and cultivated for someone to be able to rise to the top. Public support only takes you so far. Like crabs in a tank, everyone is trying to pull down the top crab. that means we are stuck either with a candidate who is tough enough to bully his way to the top or one who has a lot of people he is beholden to that pushed him to the top (or her.) Your "ideal" candidate can't compete, and no wishful thinking will make it so. The best you can do is not reward the corrupt for the sake of ideology, and maybe more quality candidates will be offered up by the various powers that be. Otherwise you get Biden, who, BTW, many thought was a steady, balanced and middle of the road candidate with integrity. Think about the process that allowed you to put your faith in him.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...So we all hate both parties but cannot do without them, and any attempt to create a viable third party would inevitably help one or the other of the hated parties, which keeps us from being able to do anything? What a country!
It's a consequence of our winner take all system and people's concern abut "throwing away their vote" on somebody who can't win. Apparently, being on the winning team is more important than having a quality candidate.
"Well, he hands you a nickel
He hands you a dime
He asks you with a grin
If you’re havin’ a good time"
This notion that Nader cost Gore the election is built around the presumption that Gore was entitled to my vote and Nader stole it away
This excellent sentence deserves repetition. See also: Hillary's feeling she was entitled to my vote, and why her slogan was "With Her" and not "She's for me".
Ice Nine said... ">Writes Ruth Marcus in "Repulsed by Biden vs. Trump? Tough" (NYT).< Am I missing something? The writer is Gail Collins."
Thanks!
Corrected.
What made me do that? RM is WaPo, GC is NYT. They seem to play a similar role. If this column were in the Washington Post, it would have been by Ruth Marcus.
Sorry. But weirdly funny.
I’m still betting that the D nominee will not be Biden. He’s being pushed off the stage by the D team itself. See the latest from “whistleblower”.
Dr Jill convinced him to run again, and his son Hunter, who is no fan of his step-mother, is stepping into the care of his father. Hunter’s staying at the White House, it was reported earlier. He stayed in his fathers room on the trip to Ireland. Hunter is a low-life but I think he loves his father and is not on board with a re-run for president. Conjecture on my part, but if I were Hunter, saw the state of my dad, I’d be alarmed at the thought of the run itself with no lockdown to keep him hidden and safe, let alone a second term.
I am guessing that you merged them because their opinions are indistinguishable from each other and they have never spouted anything but the Dem line their entire lives?
Some of us just want to see another Trump ass-kicking.
And there are more than a few of us taking joy in Trump’s widely-reported (per testimony under oath) that a dismayed then-President Trump was decrying how he lost to “that guy,” Biden.
I’m not thrilled about voting for Biden, but I am delighted about a candidate that TrumpWorld views as completely incompetent, beating Trump.
I think it is safe to say that most of the 2016 Gary Johnson voters would have preferred Hillary to Trump. And they voted for Sleepy Joe last time. How is Trump going to turn them back to a third party? (Answer: he won't)
"CORRECTION: This post originally had Ruth Marcus for Gail Collins. I need to think about why I'd merged these 2 writers!"
Well, if you merged them, then there would only be one of them. Or it, I suppose. One of it. It might be twice as annoying, but only once.
Collins, Marcus, whoever; 98% of the NYT and WaPo writers are interchangeable anyway.
meanwhile...
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/whistleblower-alleges-fbi-doj-have-document-revealing-scheme-involving-biden-foreign-national
A whistleblower is alleging that the FBI and the Justice Department are in possession of a document that describes a criminal scheme involving then-Vice President Joe Biden and a foreign national relating to the exchange of money for policy decisions, House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer and Sen. Chuck Grassley said Wednesday.
"The American people need to know if President Biden sold out the United States of America to make money for himself," Comer said. "Senator Grassley and I will seek the truth to ensure accountability for the American people."
comments? gadfly? igna? mark?
What's wrong with Trump v. Biden II, 'the Rematch'?
Many sequels have been better than the original....
Ali v. Frazier II
Godfather 2
Rocky II
If Biden keeps Kamala for 2024, the opposition campaign should feature clips of her cackling incomprehensibly against a heartbeat - signifying how close we'd be to her as President - ala LBJ's atomic bomb spot against Goldwater.
Four parties: Democrat, Republican, Bureaucracy, and the Fourth leg of a fascist State.
"I don't buy it. Gore was a terrible candidate, but Nader is being disingenuous. President Gore would have won Florida if not for Nader."
There's no way to know that. I voted for Nader in that election because he was the only candidate acceptable to me. If he had not been a candidate in that election, I would have voted for another third party candidate, or not have voted at all. I was in New York, but I'm sure many, if not most third party voters in Florida would have done the same. Then again, there was the fucked-up "butterfly" ballot in the one southern Florida county where many voters intending to vote for Gore actually voted for Patrick Buchanan. That fuck-up could have been the deciding factor...or the Republican skull-duggery that went on, (closing or moving polling places in black districts without prior notice, removing thousands of voters from the voter rolls because they had names the same as or similar to the names of convicted felons, etc.). The main thing is, if Gore could not attract sufficient voters in Florida (and other states) to vote for him against Bush to more than compensate for these issues, then Gore and only Gore is at fault for having been a bad candidate.
Plus, as Nader put it, no one has a presumption-by-right to office or to run for the presidency than anyone else. The idea is completely antithetical to democratic representation. If Nader in 2000 and those who voted for him believed both major party candidates where unacceptable, they had and rightly executed their right to run for office (Nader) or to vote for him as a third party candidate (Nader's voters).
The problem is that the Democrats have not learned from the disaster of Bush's terms in office, or from Bush's election victories, (or Trump's). They continue to use the progressive rhetoric while legislating like moderate Republicans. We really have little to choose from when we go to the polls to vote. I can understand those who vote for any Democrat rather than Republicans, (who are measurably more loathsome than the Dems), but many are becoming so disillusioned they do not bother to vote at all, or, as with myself, vote only for third parties. I would really like to see a Democrat candidate for the Presidency I could comfortably, or even happily vote for, but I haven't seen such a Dem candidate in decades.
The columns of Collins and Marcus are interchangeable. It seems you subconsciously revealed that situation.
Do people still use the term ‘subconsciously’?
I voted for Nader because Gore didn't earn my vote (Bush was my more likely 2nd choice, but he didn't earn my vote either).
Ralph Nader garnered (yes, I wrote that deliberately) 97,488 votes. As tim maguire points out, had Nader not been in the race not all of the votes that went to him would have gone to Al Gore. More likely those voters would have thrown their votes to some of the seven other third party (fourth party? seventh party) candidates, and some number would have picked Bush. But we can never know, can we? So most likely (but we’ll never know) what would have happened is Al Gore whining about a different candidate, from a different party and Bush round still be sworn in as President.
Canada's right up the road.
That writer "merger"?
Either we've all been mistaken when blaming ChatGPT for making similar "errors",
Or...
No. That other possibility is too horrible to contemplate.
I like Vivek and would support him if I could pronounce (or spell) his name.
Pointless discussion. Have people forgotten that the founders intended for congress to be the center of attention?
Congress long ago gave up its responsibilities to the executive branch, and to the judicial branch. And both loved the power, and still do.
As to the two wanna be candidates mentioned, both are saying what Trump has already said. I suppose things will change, when your masters tell you to hate both of them. Propaganda is so effective, that those most in line with the current narrative are too braindead to see it.
but it's cute that people think that voting, in a corrupt and compromised system will change anything.
Biden has a better chance of being re elected, than trump has of winning in 24. Daddy told you who to hate, who to ignore, and who to scream at..
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984
Original Mike said...It's hard to believe that if Nader hadn't been in the race Gore wouldn't have garnered 537 (or whatever the exact total was) more votes.
If Ross Perot hadn't run in '92, we never would have had a President Clinton and Gore wouldn't have been the nominee in 2000. And if Gore was running unopposed, he would have won all 50 states. You can carry the alternative histories out as far as you want.
Joe Biden will not be the Democrat nominee in 2024. I think he's going to get upset in the primaries. We'll see.
The RFK Jr. Tapes
"I need to think about why I'd merged these 2 writers!".
No thought required. They're both female, so it was misogyny. QED. Unless, I suppose, they like being merged. Then it was just womansplaining.
At least there doesn't appear to be any racism involved. That's always a relief.
I need to think about why I'd merged these 2 writers!
Maybe they don't exist and both are AI bots.
ooooooooh!
Gail Collins is the one who wants to blot out the sun
if that helps
Technically I suppose I can't blame Gail Collins for wanting to blot out the sun
She just works for a newspaper that wants to blot out the sun
"I was just following orders!"
That's what she'll say at her criminal trial.
We'll all be freezing and shivering in the audience.
"I got-got-got-got-got fr-fr-fr-fr-free speech rights!" She'll say, stuttering from the cold.
We'll be setting fires in the courtroom, because nobody remembers how to find oil or dig for coal.
"Wo-wo-wo-wo-wood's not so bad."
"What has Trump ever done wrong besides say and tweet "mean things" that made you feel bad?"
Yeah, you really have to wonder about that. He's pretty much a typical 20th century Democrat. I think the wemmings hate him because he beat Hillary Clinton like a Turkish carpet. She actually kind of looks like a Turkish carpet, if it were draped over a bulky sofa. "Grab 'em by the pussy" just made it worse.
Just put up with the disgusting reality that we've got 2 parties, they do their thing, and you obediently vote for the better of the 2, even though Ralph was right and they're both terrible.
Indeed, a plurality of Americans are neither Republican nor Democrat and want nothing to do with either awful party.
1. RFK and Vivek are running as a Democrat and Republican, respectively. Let them win the primaries! This is different than voting for a third party in the presidential election.
2. RFK has made it his primary goal in life to increase childhood sickness and death by spreading completely fabricated and malicious information about vaccines I'm not even talking about COVID, I'm talking about regular childhood vaccines, and he's been very good at it. I'll vote for Trump or abstain if he's the Democratic candidate.
RM is WaPo, GC is NYT.
It's all BS.
What about a Trump/Kennedy ticket? The deepstate would howl.
What about a Trump/Kennedy ticket? The deepstate would howl.
And what was Trump’s supposed bad quality. The immediate economic boom from tax and regulation cuts with no inflationary pressures. Or did he insult the EU by demanding they pay their NATO funding? Or did he win a NAFT redo that offended the Canadians? Or was it his Supreme Court appointment of educated conservatives? Or was it fixing the VA? Or was it his fighting back against the msm paid attack narratives by fiction writers. Or was it using Twitter against them still like Elon Musk does today?
Nope. He was arrogant to go out and win so easily.
“This post originally had Ruth Marcus for Gail Collins. I need to think about why I'd merged these 2 writers!“
They are from the same mold. Not a frog’s hair worth of difference between them. Carry on!
Yeah, you really have to wonder about that. He's pretty much a typical 20th century Democrat. I think the wemmings hate him because he beat Hillary Clinton like a Turkish carpet. She actually kind of looks like a Turkish carpet, if it were draped over a bulky sofa. "Grab 'em by the pussy" just made it worse.
The hatred is twofold: first, Hillary is the avatar of the managerial class. She's over-credentialed, ambitious, moderately intelligent, but incompetent. She's basically been handed every job she's had, done nothing with them, and expected to be passed upwards. Trump beating her was seen by the managerial class (including many suburban whites, especially women) as an attack on them. Second is what Ace of Spades once called "the Macguffinization of Politics." The needed A Cause to rally behind, and resisting Trump became that cause. It didn't matter what he did or didn't do, it only mattered that he could never be right.
"You can carry the alternative histories out as far as you want."
Yeah, but I'm just being reasonable. All he needed was 537 votes. Nader got 97,488 votes.
Is it possible Gore still would have lost? Yes. Is it probable? No.
Ignoring the difference between the policies of the Trump administration and the Biden administration? Join those just listening to the last vocalizations of Kitty Genovese.
How repulsed were you by Stevenson vs Eisenhower II?
And what was Trump’s supposed bad quality.
He ended the Second Iraq War that started with Obama's premature evacuation, funded in part by Obama waged through his Iranian proxy. He mistakenly trusted some unreliable members of the military.
He almost lost the Slavic Spring by requesting an audit of Zelensky's post-coup regime in Kiev, which implicated Biden et al.
He followed the domain expert advice given by Fauci et al to manage the Wuhan virus spread in part through planned parent/hood, in part through immigration reform, in part through service and resource restrictions, in part through masking mandates. He should have changed horses sooner.
He had the audacity to challenge the performance of human rites in Progressive Liberal sects supported by the feminist/masculinist ideological faith and butterfly effect.
He relieved the burden of funding Obamacare and delayed the advent of progressive prices in single/central/monopolistic solutions. Unfortunately, he didn't follow through to resolve the latter.
He wanted to build a wall and work with stakeholders to mitigate progress form both ends of the bridge and throughout.
He confronted labor and environmental arbitrage that would put profit, social, and environmental progress at risk.
He did not exercise liberal license to indulge diversity [dogma] (e.g. racism, sexism, political congruence), inequity, exclusion (DIEversity).
Congress long ago gave up its responsibilities to the executive branch, and to the judicial branch. And both loved the power, and still do.
Congress basically gave up power to the Administrative State. I blame McCain and Finegold for this but that only began the problem. It's just easier to let the bureaucrats do it. More time for TV and grift.
@Original Mike(5:07), yeah, I’ll buy that. But that would mean a lefty extremist was, wait for it, WRONG. And you will not ever get a lefty extremist to admit to being WRONG. Give it up, friend, it just doesn’t happen.
And it would have served Dubya right for having entrusted his campaign in Florida to his dippy brother Jeb, instead of someone competent.
Original Mike said...
"You can carry the alternative histories out as far as you want."
Yeah, but I'm just being reasonable. All he needed was 537 votes. Nader got 97,488 votes.
Is it possible Gore still would have lost? Yes. Is it probable? No.
Yes, if things were not as they were, they would have been other than what they were. Is that really a point worth making?
Vote against the worse of the two. FIFY
"Yes, if things were not as they were, they would have been other than what they were. Is that really a point worth making?"
All I said was, out of 98,000 Nader voters, it's likely 537 would have voted for Gore instead if Nader weren't in the field. I think that's a pretty safe assertion.
You're usually a reasonable guy. I think I touched a nerve. Sorry.
"RFK has made it his primary goal in life to increase childhood sickness and death by spreading completely fabricated and malicious information about vaccines I'm not even talking about COVID, I'm talking about regular childhood vaccines, and he's been very good at it."
The information about "regular childhood vaccines" that RFK Jr. has been "spreading" is not "fabricated", and he is certainly not "malicious". I don't know when your regular childhood started, but kids today receive more than four times as many vaccinations as I did. And they have something like ten times the rate of autism, and autoimmune disease. One of the main reasons appears to be that modern vaccines contain adjuvants, which are substances that elicit an immune response. This is intended to make the vaccine more effective, and probably does so. But your body doesn't know that it's only supposed to get excited about the stuff that was in the needle.
It's also apparently widely known, in medical circles, that "crib death", or SIDS, is caused by vaccines, or more precisely, by vaccination. But talking about this is a career-ender.
RFK Jr. is a highly intelligent and courageous person. While I don't agree with some of his political views, I have great respect for his intelligence and his integrity, for which he has paid a very high price. You might want to read some of his very well-documented claims before you blithely parrot the Big Pharma line.
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