Here's one of the leaders of one of the groups who is now indicted, Omali Yeshitela of @_InPDUM, speaking at a "Peace in Ukraine" rally last month.
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) April 19, 2023
Criminalizing speech is becoming increasingly common by claiming the speech serves Russia's interests:https://t.co/i9kmkLYykr
१९ एप्रिल, २०२३
The shocking criminalization of freedom of speech in America.
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
पोस्ट्स
१२३ टिप्पण्या:
speaking of speech, that should land a person in jail...
Macron Working with Beijing on ‘Secret Plan’ for Peace Deal Between Ukraine and Russia: Reports
Doesn't that Asshole realize? That our war with russia is making Raytheon BILLIONS ??
Jesus Christ froggy! keep your peace talk to yourself!! WE have a war to wage and BILLIONS more $'s to make
It's shocking when freedom of speech is denied to the Left, yet somehow justified when freedom of speech is denied to the right.
Cruel neutrality indeed.
I'm a bit baffled that it's "shocking" to you. Maybe because it's people who are not conservatives? Attempts to criminalize speech that does not comport to Democrat party requirements has been ongoing, so this is nothing new.
"Dissent is patriotic" went out the door as soon as Obama went in. And dissent went back to being patriotic when Trump became president. And dissent went back to being deplorable when Biden stumbled over the threshold.
If you're shocked you haven't been paying attention.
We are completely free to say whatever supports the Narrative. The Narrative is true and good. Why are you worried?
Reading that Twitter thread, the indictment apparently claims that Russian government officials paid Americans to engage in political advocacy, and the Americans didn't disclose their activity and hid the financial transactions.
This could explain why this administration would go after black leftists, who can usually get away with mass political violence, let alone dissent.
So, in effect it’s a declaration of war against Russia.
Those of us who think America first is the policy we should be following are obviously all Russian supporters. Probably the political prisoners in the Garfinkle Archipelago are also secret Russian supporters. The Marxists who are running our country must be the good guys somehow.
It is outrageous beyond belief, but not the least bit shocking anymore. If it weren't for Glenn Greenwald I'd have never heard of this. The right needs to make common cause (to the extent possible) with the left where free speech is concerned. People who actually believe in civil rights have a common enemy in the corporate state. And I do not believe that "enemy" is too harsh a word.
I've been hearing rumors that the DoJ would act against this guy. A couple of things:
Omali Yeshitela (born, Joseph Waller Jr. in St. Petersburg, Florida) cofounded his own political party: African People's Socialist Party.
He's supported militant organizations and has been incarcerated previously.
He's not what you would call "right-wing".
I'm curious how he "Interfered in Elections within the United States". If it is only making political content and postings, then he's an American Citizen by birth, and he can talk as much as he wants about his support for Russia, just as Bernie Sanders has talked about the Soviet Union. I suspect the DoJ thinks people will be against Yeshitela because of the color of his skin, links to militant organizations, and support of socialism; but for me, they better have some good evidence of how he interfered in elections beyond speech. Otherwise, the interference is on the DoJ side.
Shocking to who exactly? It's should be clear to anyone with an IQ above room temperature that the government has been undermining the Constitution for decades. Our Constitution has been turned on it's head.
Wake up people!
DOJ got a conviction of a guy who posted memes and told Dems they could vote by text message.
Case should have been dismissed by the judge. Satire is a defense.
why is it wrong to serve Russia's interests?
is thare a list of countries whose interests are approved to be served?
AA, I do hope you're talking notice of the political party doing the criminalization of speech.
Democrats. It's always Democrats. Lincoln did it. Wilson did it. FDR did it.
Nothing surprising here. We do political prisoners in the US, now. Gulag system being built as I write this. This government in D.C. no longer represents me- I consider it an active enemy.
As long as you use the word "Russia" Democrats and liberals will bow down to anything. They'll support a never ending war in Ukraine, and are perfectly willing to sacrifice Ukrainian lives to fight the boogeyman.
I never imagined such a large portion of the American population could be brainwashed like this. Ya'll want this instead of Trump??
"Nobody ever complied their way out of totalitarianism" - RFK Jr. So true...
Only hope I see for Democrats is RFK Jr. challenging Biden.
This is probably a trial balloon. They want to know what they can get away with. The clampdown on the Hunter laptop and covid related censoring left apparent gaps in their arsenal inventory. Is the war in Ukraine a big enough “crisis” to invoke the revocation of American civil liberties? “Never let a crisis go to waste”, remember?
Somewhere, the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover is smiling.
The Democratic Party, in consultation with the Joe Biden Presidential Campaign, organized to publish a letter signed by 50 members of the US Intelligence Community attempting to discredit the Hunter Biden laptop as 'Russian Disinformation', even though they knew it was genuine at the time, all to disadvantage opposing candidate Donald Trump. The FBI and DOJ, in consultation with the Biden White House, organized to raid Donald Trump's residence on the pretext of classified documents, all to disadvantage opposing candidate Donald Trump.
And yet Conservatives are exhorted to condemn heavy-handed, state-sponsored censorship of 'Free Speech', because of 'principles'. But when I listen to a socialist activist that is African-American, condemning the American societal experiment as the enemy and a threat to Every One Else on the planet, at the same time he is proposing reparations, at the same time he is enjoying all the trappings of the American lifestyle (apparently in Miami and St. Louis), you will just have to excuse me if my sympathy is low-wattage. He can go f*ck himself, preferably overseas somewhere else. The indictment seems to be focused on a multi-year, Russian-funded, focused campaign of agitation on American soil. Deport them and do your job for a change, DOJ.
Woodrow Wilson did the same kind of thing during WWI. He demonized and prosecuted people who supported Germany. Joe Biden's Ukrainian paymasters have outbid his Russian paymasters. Plus, the money laundering via Ukraine must be massive, so he needs to keep that going.
The cynical answer to, "Why has the left gone from supporting free speech to working against it?" is that previously they expected to be the censored and now they expect to be the censors. Perhaps this will bring them back a little.
God bless that nut, and protect him (and us) from the DS BS'ers who see Russians under every bed.
I checked our local Peace and Justice club's website, and they're against War. But their main work is organizing tenants, and protesting at Starbucks.
I may be more supportive of the war in Ukraine than many here for multiple reasons, but, still, one has to ask: Are we at war with Russia? If so, did I miss the Congressional declaration of war?
If we're not at war, then Russia, like many other countries in the world, wants to play in our space because what happens in American politics affects so much of the rest of the world. It seems to me that if the US wants to be able to have its governmental agencies & favored NGOs promulgate its favored cultural values (e.g. women's, gay, trans, etc rights), then we have to accept that other counties are going to try and promulgate their values to us.
Now, it may be that some of these groups are being indicted because of errors in reporting their donations from foreign agents as opposed to their speech. I have to admit that I'm inherently suspicious of this claim since there's so much foreign money in American politics & so few "registered agents of country X" in DC (e.g. Hunter Biden). I'm thinking, like Greenwald, that this is just an excuse for indictments for disfavored speech.
Surely the cruel neutrality principle can't be applied to this situation!
Between the right and the left today, who:
1. invented the concept of "hate speech," and tried to exclude it from free-speech protection?
2. developed a huge, complex infrastructure of speech suppression, with its tentacles reaching out to all forms of social media?
3. weaponized government agencies (FBI, CIA, ATF, DOJ, IRS, etc.) against their domestic political enemies?
4. converted universities, and even K-12 schools, to become propaganda agents for their side?
5. encouraged "denial-of-speech" through shouting down the other side?
6. created the equivalent of Soviet commissars, through the establishment of "DEI" bureaucracies throughout government, military, academia and business?
The left did all this (and probably many other things I can't bring to mind at this point). Not the right. The left are traitors to the American experiment in self-government, limited government, and especially to our reverence for individual freedoms protected in the Bill of Rights.
I wonder when the rioters during the Summer of Hate put on by Kamala Harris and her Brown Shirts will be indicted?? Since they can wait 6 years, their time is coming, RIGHT?? America is a toilet bowl with the left running things. We are turning into what they claim Trump was going to do to us. THEY are actually doing it. I am sad for the downfall of America the Beautiful. The left has destroyed us.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/04/people-are-being-arrested-for-carrying-tiki-torches-in-charlottesville-with-the-intent-to-intimidate-six-years-after-it-happened/
It is only shocking if you haven't been paying attention
. First suppression, then criminalization.
In the unpublished foreword to Animal Farm, George Orwell warned against the "widespread tendency to argue that one can only defend democracy by totalitarian methods". Orwell cautioned "that if you encourage totalitarian methods, the time may come when they will be used against you instead of for you."
I'm shocked, shocked, to find that criminalization of free speech is going on here.
That’s Althouse’s preferred Party in full fascist mode, just like we said would happen in 2020 if we gave these assholes another shot at running America into the ground. Amazing how quickly “liberals” bare their fangs when you criticize the gravy train running in and out of the Ukraine.
Althouse sees the affront to the First Amendment, wrings her hands, and says “Oh, dear.”
Those of us who really care about the Constitution work to get Republicans elected. Not that Republicans are perfect, but because at this point in time they are vastly better than Democrats.
By the way, are “we” at war? How can one aid or abet an undeclared unofficial “enemy” in any healthy functioning country?
And before anyone claims "Gotcha" on my claim that Lincoln was a Democrat (or if you prefer, first RINO), note this. Lincoln violated every constitutional restraint on the office of the President possible. He used the Union army to invade independent sovereign states, and he invaded the State legislature in Maryland, kidnapping and incarcerating the legislators to prevent them from voting on secession. He used force to bully and intimidate other State legislatures in the North to keep them from supporting southern independence. He authorized Union forces to hunt down and kill or imprison “Copperheads” (individuals who supported southern independence in the North.) Abraham Lincoln destroyed the Washington/Jeffersonian model of American government and replaced it with an imperial White House. His own statements prove that he cared absolutely nothing for the black race and was indeed himself a racist.
@gspencer: "AA, I do hope you're talking notice of the political party doing the criminalization of speech.
Democrats. It's always Democrats. Lincoln did it. Wilson did it. FDR did it."
Lincoln was a Republican and a Whig.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abraham-Lincoln
Greenwald should count his lucky stars that he wasn't indicted for helping Snowden transfer reams of stolen top secret documents to Putin. He has nothing to complain about.
If you don’t like the law, change it but this has been illegal for decades. “ Yeshitela, Hess and Nevel are also charged with acting as Russian agents in the U.S. without notifying the attorney general, which carries a maximum of 10 years in prison.”
You don't have to LIKE these people, or approve of their message (I don't) to be disgusted by the suppression of their right to free speech.
I am honestly wondering what AOC and the rest of the squad think about this.
Schenck lives.
AA - What is the lawsuit you hope fails?
CJinPA said...
"Reading that Twitter thread, the indictment apparently claims that Russian government officials paid Americans to engage in political advocacy, and the Americans didn't disclose their activity and hid the financial transactions."
And didn't give The Big Guy his 10%.
is there a list of countries whose interests are approved to be served?
I've been wondering this since the days of Russia Gate and the Steele Dossier. Why was it ok to have a "former" British spy create a document about US politician and then utilize that document for a criminal investigation of that politician and campaign? If you substitute British with Saudi, Cuban, Israeli, Russian, or Chinese, would people still except the dossier for use in a criminal investigation of a US politician? Either no foreign country should interfere with US elections or its free game, but if you think there is a middle ground, where is the list of countries that can interfere with US elections?
gspencer said...
Democrats. It's always Democrats. Lincoln did it.
Ok, now tell us about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor.
The accusation that I’m being partisan here is unsupported by my record. You are biased in what you notice. Do better.
Try googling first. Omni Yrshitela is a well-known, abusive towards women, cult leader in St. Pete, Florida. He's also a communist Putin supporter who endorses Putin's suppression of speech and is paid by Putin, like many black leaders before him. His Uhuru group assassinated four cops eating breakfast. They rioted and destroyed small businesses and repeatedly disrupt council meetings with physical threats, which likely endear them to you, Ms. Heckler's Veto.
I know him because I lived there and read the papers and worked in politics. You can't spend five minutes on the Google machine? Pathetic. you probably get free Lexus Nexus on my dime too.
And speaking of "courageous bloggers" taking on the man, Greenwald has already taken ca-ching from one suppressive billionaire and is not currently telling us who else he's getting money from to shill this amazingly low-rent, pro-Putin crap.
What happened to you?
Ya gotta be the proverbial frog in the pan of water to be shocked by any of this. The time to be shocked was 2017.
And he is being prosecuted for lending aid to a hostile foreign power in wartime.
Do you look nothing up? This has nothing to do with speech. It also happened in Ukraine, where by definition, he and his low-intelligence followers were aiding Ukraine's invaders and were thus invaders themselves.
If you know nothing, say nothing.
the union needed to he held together, 75 years of jim crow attest to what happens when it doesn't
war is the health of the state, wrote randolph bourne, more than a century ago,
"Greenwald should count his lucky stars that he wasn't indicted for helping Snowden transfer reams of stolen top secret documents to Putin. He has nothing to complain about."
Of course, Jim51IQ would defame Greenwald. Snowden released the information publicly, and Greenwald published it in his articles. It was not transferred to the Russians. I for one liked knowing my government was spying on me relentlessly. I consider it a public service what Snowden and Greenwald did, but little tyrants like Jimbo are threatened by such actions, I suppose.
If you think the left is all that concerned about rights and speech in general, then you don't understand the left. Sure, they might prefer to have these rights, but most of the left is like Nina Burleigh. There is only one thing they care about - Sexual freedom. This manifests itself in the ability to kill babies and the ability to sexually abuse the ones they miss. Sexual freedom is the only freedom that matters and all other "sins" can be ignored if in the opposing or them it would give aid and comfort to those who oppose sexual freedom.
This is Biden's America.
ha ha ha ha
I can't get over trying to give Lincoln to the other party
they'd love to have him!
His own statements prove that he cared absolutely nothing for the black race and was indeed himself a racist.
abolitionists are like pro-lifers
they recognize the humanity of human beings
and the violence upsets us
you and your 21st century googles ought to learn from Lincoln
see the good in him and take inspiration from what he did right
A Man but Not a Brother
Three days before he met his destiny...
I've said some things here that some could misinterpret as not being body and soul in full support of Ukraine, zelenski and us support.
In fact we need to double or triple the money we are sending.
Vlad is a horrible evil man. Worse than Mao, Stalin, pol pot, Hitler and Joe Brandon put together.
I am a loyal American. I lo e Big Brother
John Henry
I wonder how many commenters here know any of the backstory to this indictment. When rightists confuse free speech of independent US groups to groups being paid to act as agents of Russia to interfere with US elections it’s pretty damn sad. Knee jerk outrage in support of agents of foreign countries with the intent of interfering with our elections is lazy and stupid.
St. Petersburg Uhuru members indicted in Russian influence case
A federal indictment issued Tuesday accused the group, including Uhuru leader Omali Yeshitela, of conspiring to have U.S. citizens act as Russian agents
“It follows an earlier indictment against Aleksandr Viktorovich Ionov, who was charged last July with orchestrating a foreign malign influence campaign that used American political groups and sought to interfere in U.S. elections. His efforts began in 2014 and ended in July, according to federal prosecutors.
Ionov founded the Anti-Globalization Movement of Russia, an organization funded by that country’s government.
The new indictment also names Aleksey Borisovich Sukhodolov and Yegor Sergeyevich Popov, who are identified as intelligence officers in the Russian Federal Security Service. They are accused of directing and supervising Ionov’s efforts.
Ionov recruited members of American political groups to participate in his influence campaign and act as agents of Russia, federal prosecutors allege. He recruited groups that promoted secessionist ideologies, coordinating and funding their activities, with the goal of furthering Russian interests.
The groups he used included the African People’s Socialist Party and its activist arm, known as the Uhuru Movement.“
The press release may be the most chilling. It reads: “Russia’s foreign intelligence service allegedly weaponized our First Amendment rights"
And now free speech is a dangerous weapon that can be criminalized.
Dave Begley said...
DOJ got a conviction of a guy who posted memes and told Dems they could vote by text message.
Case should have been dismissed by the judge. Satire is a defense.
Meanwhile DoJ didn't prosecute any Democrat doign the same the other way.
Justified in DemoncRAT eyes because of their inbred racism. Blacks and other solid DemoncRAT voyeres are too stupid to recognize satire or to understand voting and how it works, Repyblican voters know when election day is and how to vote on election day. Well, what should be election day and not election week or month...
This is normally the point when I would say that I would want more evidence to see if there was any justification for the charges.
Unfortunately, the DOJ has completely discredited itself, both in its selective prosecutions and it, dare I say, outright cruelty. I don't trust what they say at all, and I very much expect them to lie to me.
I believe there's a potential crucial distinction with the alleged criminalization of speech in this instance: were those charged offering their own opinions, no matter how vile, or did were they acting as undeclared and disclosed foreign agents of Russia or others. If you're getting paid by or receiving assistance from a foreign power to lobby in their favor, that a very bug difference from just offering your own opinions and speech.
“And yet Conservatives are exhorted to condemn heavy-handed, state-sponsored censorship of 'Free Speech', because of 'principles'. But when I listen to a socialist activist that is African-American, condemning the American societal experiment as the enemy and a threat to Every One Else on the planet, at the same time he is proposing reparations, at the same time he is enjoying all the trappings of the American lifestyle (apparently in Miami and St. Louis), you will just have to excuse me if my sympathy is low-wattage. He can go f*ck himself, preferably overseas somewhere else. The indictment seems to be focused on a multi-year, Russian-funded, focused campaign of agitation on American soil. Deport them and do your job for a change, DOJ.”
This commenter gets credit for having delved deeper into this story than the great majority here.
realistically what was lincoln supposed to do, let slavery expand west and possibly into the Caribbean,
1. The guy is FOS.
2. He has NOT been oppressed for the 81 years of his life.
3. And neither have any of the people surrounding him.
4. No one of any color is living in a concentration camp today.
5. This DOJ is completely and totally out of control.
6. Althouse pretends like the Dems aren’t her people. Anyone who has been following her for years knows she supports them for the majority of the time and may give lip service to conservative positions occasionally.
7. Socialists have been around in this country for a very long time. We have always been able to speak in a stronger and more persuasive way to tell them they have silly, stupid ideas. Thanks to the educational system that is out of control we seem to have a harder time getting through to those who are so easily brainwashed.
8. I detest what he says but unless there is more to learn, which I admit there might be, the guy should be able to spout his nonsense without being arrested.
"Abraham Lincoln destroyed the Washington/Jeffersonian model of American government and replaced it with an imperial White House."
Yeah, pretty much. Lincoln was the first American leader to make use of the vast new powers the Industrial Revolution made available to nation-states. Basically, America's Napoleon. But that does not make him a Democrat.
Somebody go check on Tim in Vermont.
mikw Wolf.
Spot on.
Greenwald is trying to get the Nashville shooter's manifesto. Apparently, people who went to law school aren't willing to help;
"We've spoken with 2 major law firms in Nashville who said they'd send retainer letters to represent us suing FBI and the Nashville PD to obtain the manifesto of the Nashville shooter, only to back out at the last second."
"A Virginia grand jury has charged at least three people with “burning an object with the intent of intimidating a person or group of people,” which carries up to five years in prison."
This is about carrying tiki torches in Charlottesburg, six years ago. Fascism has finally descended on the US.
The white left went full Soviet during the Trump administration.
Palmerism.
The Americans were charged under the all-encompassing "conspiracy to defraud" statute (5 years) and under the FARA for failing to register as foreign agents (10 years).
Money changed hands electronically and there were multiple communications between the Americans and the Russians (safely in Russia), yet there are no wire fraud in furtherance of the conspiracy charges added to enhance the possible penalties.
These criminals are getting off easy. The actions of the Russian Federation and its co-conspiring, so-called Americans are an existential threat to our democracy and the DOJ and the FBI are doing God's work in rooting out these enemies of the state.
Thank you Merrick Garland. You are a great American and an example for us all.
Can someone, perhaps usual suspects Mark, LLR Chuck, or Inga, explain to me -- citing the relevant statutes, mind you -- the law making "spreading propaganda" or even blatant lying in a political speech, or any spoken falsehood not given under the surety of oath or bond a criminal offense? We are not at war with Russia. Though the Biden Administration has committed numerous acts of war against the Russian Federation, the legal niceties haven't been enacted so no treason statute is enforceable in a court of law, unless it's one of Biden's star chamber travesties like the Minnesota "appeals" court where venality wears a robe. So don't give me that "Russian asset" codswallop, asswipes.
If you're paid to work for a foreign government you're obliged to register with the State Department as a foreign agent, and duly registered foreign agents can openly and legally function here in almost any capacity as private citizens. However, these victims of Biden's criminal betrayal of his oath of office are just speaking their minds. Under the Constitution, you can advocate openly for or against any foreign power, regardless of the President's foreign policy unless and until a state of war has been lawfully enacted by Congress, then such actions could be treasonous, but it's not a slam dunk. Remember Eugene Debbs.
Where is Biden's Injustice Department recruiting its grand juries? Apparently from the encampments of drug-addled cretins that increasingly infest our cities, given these lunatic indictments. Does any Democrat respect the Constitution? If they do they ought to burn down the Robert F. Kennedy Building in DC and leave Portland's few remaining restaurants alone.
It's a tough choice for the DOJ. Do they go with Cultural Marxism or QuidProJoe's foreign policy blunders?
Evidently partisanship prevailed. But either way the US is screwed.
It's a tough choice for the DOJ. Do they go with Cultural Marxism or QuidProJoe's foreign policy blunders?
Evidently partisanship prevailed. But either way the US is screwed.
realistically what was lincoln supposed to do, let slavery expand west and possibly into the Caribbean,
First, slavery already existed in both the West and the Caribbean. In the West the Indians were enslaved by the Spanish, and the Indians enslaved each other. There was no Black slavery to speak of. In the Carribean, all of the European slave powers had colonies or former colonies of Black slaves, and for the most part had wiped out the native populations through slavery and war.
Secondly, Lincoln committed no action besides getting elected. The South seceded before he even took office. Lincoln's only desire was to reunite the Union. If he could have reunited the Union without ending slavery, he would have. By today's standards Lincoln was indeed racist, but still thought slavery was evil.
LOL. "Do better". One mustn't notice that cruel neutrality is just a pose.
Yancey - CHeck your facts. It is my understanding that around 7000 of the million or so documents that Snowden stole were published by Greenwald and other media outlets working in concert with Smowden. No doubt Putin has them all.
they aren't punished for their speech. others are saying the same things and not being prosecuted. the difference is these defendants are paid foreign agents. failing to register as a foreign agent has consequences.
You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you.
Guy can be a grade-A asshole but that doesn't mean he doesn't get to speak his mind.
I never went to law school but even I know that an indictment is not proof. It may present evidence of wrongdoing but it's not a guilty verdict.
As noted by someone else, I'm not giving the DOJ benefit of the doubt much anymore.
I read Inga’s comments and link. Now I want to know when John Kerry will be under indictment for his work with Iran. I know why Hunter isn’t under indictment for his work with Ukraine and China.
Muh norms!
Is this POS lobbying the government? No? Then it doesn't matter one whit whether he's paid by the Russkies, the CCP, or a bunch of martians. He and his cult are allowed to say whatever the hell they want in favor of whomever they want for whatever price they are being paid.
The source of the speech being spoken is irrelevant. As long as he is not addressing the government on behalf of a foreign power he should be able to be as much a POS as he wishes.
And really Tina Trent - what does being a wife-beater have to do with someone's free speech rights? Besides absolutely nothing?
that should be "goggles" not "googles"
damn blogger is getting all in my subconscious now
sneaky bastard is everywhere!
Robert Marshall said...
Surely the cruel neutrality principle can't be applied to this situation!
Between the right and the left today, who:
1. invented the concept of "hate speech," and tried to exclude it from free-speech protection?
2. developed a huge, complex infrastructure of speech suppression, with its tentacles reaching out to all forms of social media?
3. weaponized government agencies (FBI, CIA, ATF, DOJ, IRS, etc.) against their domestic political enemies?
4. converted universities, and even K-12 schools, to become propaganda agents for their side?
5. encouraged "denial-of-speech" through shouting down the other side?
6. created the equivalent of Soviet commissars, through the establishment of "DEI" bureaucracies throughout government, military, academia and business?
The left did all this (and probably many other things I can't bring to mind at this point). Not the right. The left are traitors to the American experiment in self-government, limited government, and especially to our reverence for individual freedoms protected in the Bill of Rights.
4/19/23, 11:09 AM
HEAR HEAR!!!
Has there ever been a time in which foreign actors did not try to influence American elections?
Note to Inga and the other idiot leftists - the answer to Russian propaganda or misinformation is open discussion not criminalization.
If conservatives were in charge of the government and the media (but I repeat myself) you all would be singing a different tune.
"The shocking criminalization of freedom of speech in America."
"Shocking"? Yeah, that's the ticket. Just like...
"I'm shocked! Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here."
this was really old news, but here's the clip
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/college-plaque-in-land-of-lincoln-labels-abe-a-democrat
Abraham Lincoln, a Democrat?
So says a plaque at a public university in Lincoln’s home state of Illinois, where, since 1905, students at Northeastern Illinois University in Chicago have seen the nation’s 16th president — and quite possibly its most influential — honored as a democrat.
“This building is dedicated to public service honoring the memory of Abraham Lincoln,” the inscription reads. “Democrat.”
Northeastern Illinois University officials insist there’s more to the word “democrat” at the Carruthers Center for Inner City Studies.
“From time to time, the integrity of a plaque honoring the memory of Abraham Lincoln is questioned,” school officials said in a statement to The College Fix. “According to building archives, the word democrat was used because Lincoln was an advocate for democracy — the political or social equality of all people. The word was chosen to reflect a political affiliation.”
The shocking criminalization of freedom of speech in America.
"Welcome to the party, pal."
Omni Yrshitela is a well-known, abusive towards women, cult leader in St. Pete, Florida. He's also a communist Putin supporter who endorses Putin's suppression of speech and is paid by Putin, like many black leaders before him. His Uhuru group assassinated four cops eating breakfast. They rioted and destroyed small businesses and repeatedly disrupt council meetings with physical threats, which likely endear them to you, Ms. Heckler's Veto.
In other words, a good Democrat. But why doesn't the Constitution apply to him? You know, the one that says "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech"?
"The Marxists who are running our country must be the good guys somehow."
Comments like these show that one doesn't have to be very smart to be a doctor.
you and your 21st century googles ought to learn from Lincoln
see the good in him and take inspiration from what he did right
Frederick Douglass Project Writings: Oration in Memory of Abraham Lincoln
The movements in the past, present, and progressive lay claim to the same mantle.
steve uhr: "Yancey - CHeck your facts. It is my understanding...."
LOL
As more lefties move to the right, they bring their idiocy with them.
Temp Bloc and Madison Man, I'm just describing the man and his cult. But as several others have noted, this is not a free speech case: it's about being paid by Putin to perform certain acts officially on behalf of Russia while not registering as foreign agents. Lobbyists have to register; lawyers have to register; foreign agents have to register.
The Uhuru also consider themselves Sovereign Citizens, refuse to pay taxes, and claim they do not need to follow American laws. We have two sects in Georgia, north and south of the city. They're well-known for threatening local law enforcement and targeting individual officers and departments. They have murdered cops. There are lots of reasons to arrest these thugs, but for once, I'm glad the feds are taking the lead, because they are harder to get at than some sheriff in a retirement town. I've seen what they do to anyone involved in a legal case, including court clerks, receptionists, etc. and it has hit very close to home.
Sorry, guys. Couldn't stop myself.
No Mean Tweets
Blogger Robert Cook said...
"The Marxists who are running our country must be the good guys somehow."
Comments like these show that one doesn't have to be very smart to be a doctor.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmd man.
And you can hear his Ghost as you walk by the billabong, you'll come a waltzing Matilda with me.
Me (and Pepperidge Farms) remember when liberals were fully in favor of free speech, didn't trust the government, and were wary of corporate power.
Now they're a bunch of nanny-state scolds who love it when the government criminalizes both speech and actions, and corporation work with the government to push radical agendas.
Weird...
Clearly, democrats be lovin them some McCarthy techniques.
Blogger Inga said...
I wonder how many commenters here know any of the backstory to this indictment. When rightists confuse free speech of independent US groups to groups being paid to act as agents of Russia to interfere with US elections it’s pretty damn sad.
Now, do the Biden crime family. Russia, Ukraine, China, and how many others feeding their family fortune?
At this point, I think I'd prefer Russia just roll over Ukraine and get it over with.
It would save us a shit-ton of money...
"Yancey - CHeck your facts. It is my understanding that around 7000 of the million or so documents that Snowden stole were published by Greenwald and other media outlets working in concert with Snowden. No doubt Putin has them all."
Steve, that you are objecting tells me I got it completely correct. I note for the record that you are doing exactly what Jimbo53IQ did- make a bald assertion without any support whatsoever that Snowden gave all the information to the Russians. I have seen no evidence supporting that assertion, ever. Greenwald was careful to not publish peoples' private data in his stories- it was that data, illegally captured by the NSA, that Snowden took to prove his claims about the illegal surveillance. I, for one, am thankful to Snowden for letting us know how corrupt the intelligence agencies of the US really are.
it's about being paid by Putin to perform certain acts officially on behalf of Russia while not registering as foreign agents. Lobbyists have to register; lawyers have to register; foreign agents have to register.
Note what the DOJ Tweet says: Defendants Sought to Sow Discord, Spread Pro-Russia Propaganda and Interfere in Elections Within the United States. To which I respond: So what? Anyone is allowed to do that. Why isn't DOJ saying "They didn't register as Foreign Agents" in that tweet?
Branford said...
"I believe there's a potential crucial distinction with the alleged criminalization of speech in this instance: were those charged offering their own opinions, no matter how vile, or did were they acting as undeclared and disclosed foreign agents of Russia or others. If you're getting paid by or receiving assistance from a foreign power to lobby in their favor, that a very bug difference from just offering your own opinions and speech."
I agree. If you are being paid by a foreign power you are an agent of that foreign power not just a US citizen. You know, like Hunter and his $$ from China, Russia, and the Ukraine. But this guy just does not have 'Big Daddy' in his pocket.
As long as the (mainstream) media aids and abets, "free speech" will simply die away. John Doe vs. NBC News or the NYT (with help from the White House)?
Fahgedahboudid.
"Has there ever been a time in which foreign actors did not try to influence American elections?"
Has there ever been a time when the US hasn't tried to influence elections, actors, and events in other countries, using tactics including, but not limited to, propaganda and lies (e.g., the "Gulf of Tonkin" event, which never happened), funding and/or assisting violent militias in foreign nations, toppling foreign leaders, and direct invasions?
The Americans aren't being charged with being unregistered foreign agents. The defendants are charged with "sowing division and discord" by "creating social and political polarization," which surely is what the First Amendment is meant to protect. The "interfering with an election" charge seems to stem from using pseudonyms to "inflame passions on a wide variety of topics, including immigration, gun control and the Second Amendment, the Confederate flag, race relations, LGBT issues, the Women's March, and the NFL national anthem debate." I wonder what percentage of Americans could be prosecuted for the same offense.
Russell Brand has a lot of good insights in this video: https://rumble.com/v2iztiy-keep-fighting-france-is-still-burning.html
"Global elites are increasingly finding ways of bypassing democracy." (about 1:56 in the video. But listen to the whole thing.)
when you consider that lisa monaco one of the russia hoaxers is at the top of the department, it makes more sense,
Has there ever been a time when the US hasn't tried to influence elections, actors, and events in other countries,
Nope. All nations act that way if they can.
But, PUUUUTIIIN! But, UKRAINE!
Putin, unless he decides to send a few nukes this way, and all the bluegum piney-woods wife-beating (because we all know loudmouthed B/black men get fair trials in our feminized courts) loons he can muster, is less a threat to the peace and freedom of Americans than our imperial government in DC.
Only dumbasses give any credence to charges brought by the Biden Garland conspiracy. And that's on them.
“The Americans aren't being charged with being unregistered foreign agents. The defendants are charged with "sowing division and discord" by "creating social and political polarization," which surely is what the First Amendment is meant to protect.”
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Not quite that simplistic.
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“Yeshitela and three other U.S. citizens — Penny Joanne Hess, Jesse Nevel and Augustus C. Romain Jr — are charged with conspiracy to defraud the U.S. Hess, Yeshitela and Nevel are also charged with impersonating agents of a foreign government. Ionov and the other two Russians, who remain in their country, face the fraud conspiracy charge.
Prosecutors said Ionov operated an entity called the Anti-Globalization Movement of Russia that was used to carry out its U.S. influence efforts, overseen by the Russian intelligence service known as the FSB. They recruited U.S.-based organizations to help sway elections, make it appear there was strong support in the U.S. for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and backing efforts such as a 2015 United Nations petition to decry the “genocide of African people” in the U.S., according to the indictment.
Yeshitela, the indictment adds, traveled from Tampa to Moscow in 2015 to meet with Ionov and other Russians to “communicate on future cooperation,” according to an Ionov email. What followed was covert Russian funding and support for various activities in the U.S. until summer 2022, including demonstrations at the California and Georgia state capitols and at an unnamed social media company in San Francisco.”
US charges 4 Americans, 3 Russians in election discord case
Lol. Let them experience how caucasians and Asians have had their speech about blacks suppressed and criminalized over the last couple decades. You can’t even rationally discuss the Bell Curve in academia anymore. Let alone get the funding needed for real studies into how to elevate black IQ. No we are just going to Harrison Bergeron anyone who does better and degrade all academic studies and industries.
I’m with MadisonMan and totally oppose Tina T. Wartime? We haven’t declared war and are not, legally speaking, “at war” with anyone. Since when does helping the Ukraine, which is a dubious exercise in peacetime, so vital we suspend our Constitutional rights? It’s like crazytown with these suddenly anti-Russian people and politicians.
Maybe I detect unconscious bias?
Rather than wait for a Cafe' and possibly forget: those who bandy comparisons of Lincoln to Napoleon only show that they don't understand their contexts, motivations, goals, and challenges.
A better match would be Bismarck, but even that track doesn't go far.
Shelby Foote liked to say that Lincoln, unlike Davis, was not handicapped by pretending to be a gentleman. He also considered Lincoln one of the two authentic geniuses produced by the Woah
(as white Southerners of a certain age pronounced ACWABAWS).
Why is this shocking, when we put protesters in solitary confinement in D.C. for the crime of questioning the legitimacy of our electoral system. Held more than 2 years without trial in violation of the Constitution. Just an ordinary day in our present world of Democrat rule. This is the boring normalcy you wanted Althouse, accept it.
those who bandy comparisons of Lincoln to Napoleon
========
considering verticality is nto Lincoln double Napoleon?
Branford said...
"I believe there's a potential crucial distinction with the alleged criminalization of speech in this instance: were those charged offering their own opinions, no matter how vile, or did were they acting as undeclared and disclosed foreign agents of Russia or others. If you're getting paid by or receiving assistance from a foreign power to lobby in their favor, that a very big difference from just offering your own opinions and speech."
I'm genuinely curious was to why you think that? If they are American citizens, there is absolute freedom in verbally or in print, lobbying in anyone's favor, foreign or not. We are not a war here and these men are not soldiers.
MarcusB. THEOLDMAN
"Not that Republicans are perfect, but because at this point in time they are vastly better than Democrats."
Republicans are largely useless.
McConnell is all-in on increasing DOJ funding.
Napoleon was about average height for his class and time, not the runt beloved of Britons and their hirelings. (The French inch was larger than the English, for one thing.)
So, if you stood one Napoleon on top of another they would be taller than Abe. Honest.
Has there ever been a time when the US hasn't tried to influence elections, actors, and events in other countries, using tactics including, but not limited to, propaganda and lies (e.g., the "Gulf of Tonkin" event, which never happened), funding and/or assisting violent militias in foreign nations, toppling foreign leaders, and direct invasions?
Look, a squirrel!
Cook you are not a dummy, but a devoted liberal cultist. You know very well that you cannot answer the post, so you deflect.
Joe Smith said...
"Me (and Pepperidge Farms) remember when liberals were fully in favor of free speech..." (emphasis added)
When was this? I'm a Gen Xer, and I don't think they were ever fully committed to free speech in my lifetime. Partially committed, sure - but only as a tactic when it helped "the cause". When it was something inconvenient to their side, they would happily censor.
This was something I was seeing at the same time as Nat Hentoff was publishing Free Speech for Me--But Not for Thee back in 1992 pointing out the left was as censorious as the right of the day.
Democrats especially hate uppity negroes. There's a history behind that!
Mike, read the actual indictment. It's fraud not speech, exacerbated by the danger and very specific threats repeatedly issued by these people against local law enforcement and, worse, support personnel. You want more assassinated cops? Say that to my face. My husband concealed carry after just drafting a complaint for someone else about some other matter with this cult. Would you put your daughter in that situation? They're crazy, armed, and dangerous. This isn't about speech. It's thug/mafia business. They got some money they were required to report and didn't report it. Local law enforcement -- including nice lady clerks, notaries, are directly and specifically threatened by them. They're a fucking terrorist group. Shame on Greenwald and Althouse for wildly misrepresenting this.
If you know nothing, stfu.
from Inga
What followed was covert Russian funding and support for various activities in the U.S.
They should have just given them $2 billion to "manage" at 50 points a month management fees.
That is honest and above board. (they can even save 10% for the 'Big Guy'
Boring enough for you Althouse?
BUMBLE BEE: "Democrats especially hate uppity negroes."
Democrats and LLR-democraticals especially hate uppity negroes.
FIFY
"How poetic then, that Dominion Voting Systems just won a $787.5 million settlement against Fox News for defamation?
Next up is [Mike] Lindell, and he’ll have to defend himself against a $1.3 billion defamation suit from Dominion and a defamation lawsuit from one of Dominion’s former executives. He probably can’t afford to settle, and his prospect of winning are not good. So, if [you] actually want a MyPillow, I suggest [that] you snatch one up soon because I think this motherfucker is going out of business."
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