The article tells a tale of struggle from the point of view of drivers who pass up low-cost meals and wait for the expensive kind. Virtually every commenter makes the same point.
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After reading their comments section, the NYT editors must wish they'd put scare quotes around "just."
I've read "$388 in Sushi. Just a $20 Tip: The Brutal Math of Uber Eats and DoorDash/Delivery drivers were hailed as pandemic heroes. But they say the rise of contactless delivery has made customers less inclined to tip generously and gig work is becoming an even harder way to make a living" (NYT).
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It's unclear to me what point virtually every NYT commenter is making. Are they criticizing the drivers for passing up "low-cost meals"?
An unclear post is a rarity on Althouse blog.
Pre-covid I would tip delivery drivers 15-20%. Contactless delivery pissed me off with the ridiculous theater, and I decreased closer to 10%. I haven't reset upwards. The Biden economy ate that extra tip money.
If a Door Dash driver delivers a $300 order to one customer and a $30 order to another customer, exactly what additional service is he providing to the $300 customer that he doesn't provide for the $30 customer as well? As I understand Door Dash there is already a delivery fee and perhaps a service fee embedded in the cost to the customer, plus the full out-the-door cost of the product, so the customer should only be expected to add on a tip for the driver, not for the value-added by the restaurant staff to the food, itself. It doesn't seem to make sense to expect someone to tip on the basic cost of the order rather than tip for the specific service the driver provides. In-restaurant food service is different because the wait staff is normally expected to provide a portion of the tips to other restaurant employees involved with the order, i.e., no service charge has normally been added to cover their labor.
If Door Dash drivers are allowed to pick and choose among the orders based on tip expectations, then the drivers are incorrectly incentivized and/or managed. If taxi drivers in an airport line aren't allowed to choose their customers based on mileage to the destination, why should food delivery drivers be allowed to choose based on the cost of the food delivered?
I have been having my groceries delivered for several years. I don't tip my driver based on what the grocery bill is. I know from experience how many trips from the truck to my front door any order is going to take. There is a generous base tip amount and then an additional amount for extra times he has to walk back and forth to the truck. Why should his tip be less because something I bought is on sale? I frequently get the same driver, and I get greeted with smiles and good wishes so I'm pretty confident this method is acceptable to them. Basing a tip on what's in the takeout containers is the problem. Are people who order more expensive meals entitled to better takeout service?
With crude oil prices on the rise (again) and by extension gasoline prices, the situation for the drivers can only get worse. In the past, some companies have added a fuel surge. Thanks Brandon!
When they say “I’ll tip you on the app” it’s rarely, like the closest thing to never true. I get a kick out of people not knowing they have a tell. I only recall one time a lady in Athens Georgia told me “I’ll gratuitise you on the app” and she did.
People who tip don’t make a proclamation.
Last night I learned that one of the ride shares limits what costumers can tip.
I don’t know if this is true it’s disturbing if it is. One of the commenters rations that a big tip might discourage a driver from forging ahead until the time such a driver planned to drive for that day. I have to admit that possibility is true. But still, seems treacherous on the part of the people running the company.
That is the worst job in thr world. I couldn't conceive what it must be like to do food delivery. And I'm being holistic. I include pizza delivery, all food delivery, in that category.
In restaurants, expensive meals generally involve many visits to the table by the wait staff. (See! I did it. Instead of calling them waiters or waitresses or, god forbid, servants, I used the nonsensical term wait staff. I'm getting better. Or much worse.) Whether the expensive meal requires such attention or the servants just flit about the table because you're an evident moneybags and therefore ripe for giving generous gratuities is undetermined. Nevertheless, the effort is made, and the tip is made in gratitude for the effort. That's why it's called a gratuity. (The effort shouldn't be associated directly with the expense, however. A seventy-dollar lobster is a job of work, but I want no assistance in the task, the effort being half the fun.)
On the other hand, a DoorDash driver makes the same effort regardless of whether he delivers a Rueben with extra kraut and a side of fries or a wagyu fillet with black truffle and almond green beans. So it should be one meal, one trip, one fixed gratuity. If it's two meals and one trip, somewhat more. You get the gist. But this idea that the costly meal deserves a costly tip is pernicious.
Standard tip is 20%. At a restaurant, or for delivery.
Even if you just sit there and drink $100 worth of beer and booze, you leave the bartender $20. Tip in cash too. Then the server doesn't have to pay taxes, and the owner doesn't have to pay out and wait for the credit card reimbursement. If you want to have nice place to go, you also have to be a good customer.
The article tells a tale of struggle from the point of view of drivers who pass up low-cost meals and wait for the expensive kind.
My experience as a pizza delivery guy (lo those many decades ago) was that it was the people in the rich areas that usually stiffed you on the tip. Also, certain people were known as regular customers and good tippers, so the senior drivers (or the ones the manager liked) usually got those.
I'd imagine it is metropolitan city dwelling liberals that use Uber Eats and Door Dash the most. I never have. I don't even get pizza's delivered anymore.
Point is we all know who the shit tippers are. And they aren't cis gender, alpha-male white guys.
You have to be an asshole if you use a delivery service, be willing to pay the upcharge, but not tip the driver at least 20%. Liberals are good at spending other peoples money, just not their own.
Reminds me of my old restaurant industry days up in Michigan. Certain people from certain cultures tended to tip less. Waiters would would know early in the service if they were going to see a regular or good tip, or a 'Canadian' tip. No offense to my Canadian friends and associates. Again it's just a cultural thing- or used to be in the 80s/90s. Canadians didn't tip much by American Waiter Standards (not really a thing, but yeah, it's a thing).
If one of my waiters caught wind of a Canadian accent at the table, they'd come back to the waiters station bitching, expectations at the lowest. And I'm sure, the accompanying service reflected it and so we had a self-fulfilling loop. Bad service=poor tip. Poor expectations= bad service. And on and on. It was hard to break.
$20 tip on $388 worth of delivered sushi.
Cheap ass Ivory Tower Liberals. Doesn't surprise me at all.
They look down on the entire world, and want you to stay down there.
If one of my waiters caught wind of a Canadian accent at the table, they'd come back to the waiters station bitching, expectations at the lowest.
My wife tells me that when she goes out with her girl friends they usually get crap service, probably because the expectation is that women are crappy tippers.
In what universe is sushi worth $388? I have no doubt some eating establishments charge that much, but as to the value, meh. I wouldn't pay Ming Tsai $388 for sushi, but then I have an aversion to eating bait, so it wouldn't happen anyway.
I don't like built-in tips (Also, I NEVER user Uber Eats. The only food I get delivered is Glass Nickel pizza). I will tip in cash when stuff is delivered. I assume the delivery person knows this.
I will order out -- to pick up. It's not hard in Madison to get in the car and drive to, say, Hong Kong Cafe and pick up your order of Pepper Shrimp and Chicken Fried Rice.
serious question for you that say: 'Standard tip is 20%. At a restaurant, or for delivery '
Do you tip the UPS man? huh? you DON'T??!?!? You F*cking hypocrite!!!
Do you tip the post person? huh? you DON'T??!?!? You F*cking hypocrite!!
I agree that tipping is out of control. I'm presented everywhere I buy with options to tip, often pre-selected to 20%. Bought a slice of pizza? 20% tip. Buy a cup of coffee? 20% tip. We had a 20 second micro-transation and I'm being asked to increase my bill.
I considered myself a good tipper not long ago. I go out to a nice meal and have a good service experience, a waiter/waitress is getting a 20-25% tip consistently. Outstanding experience? 25-30%. Decent experience? Still 20%. Bad experience? Probably 15%.
But that was benchmarked about service across a lengthy meal where you notice the amount of time you sit there with an empty water glass, or you need something and the server is at your ready, or you are offered another round as soon as your glass hits 20% capacity, etc. - probably 5-10 minutes of total interaction time across 60-90 minutes but with alot of "watchful" nature.
Now tipping has been diluted.
Which means that, ultimately, tipping will likely go away and be "built-in" as me see already happening in many places.
It's a shame. It's just a precursor to good service being optional.
Another headline fail this weekend. This one from the NY Post sounded unfortunately like a classified ad:
Teens Wanted for Anti-Semitic Passover Attacks in Queens
People who say “I’ll tip you on the app” are tipping their pitches .
One of my kids runs deliveries for Door Dash. I tagged along last time I was there. Quite eye-opening. She picks orders based on 3 criteria: restaurant, distance for delivery, tip. Slow restaurants? Pass. (Restaurants should know this; and why is Crumbl one of the worst?) More than 10 miles from restaurant? Tip had better account for that. No tip or minimal tip? Pass.
You are still paying for a service; it seems a continuation of Covid-related patterns: the worker bees MUST toil while the entitled white-collar WFH-types demand their grapes for free, peeled in advance.
In our house, food delivery remains the province of the infirm, aged or disabled.
Until them, we pick it up. Same with groceries; same with Avon.
I upped my tip for breakfast delivery yesterday, Easter. Would have given more but some glitch in the "custom tip" button kept me looping back. I usually go with the recommended tip. Am I too cheap?
Just spent 2 months in Australia. Tipping there borders on an insult. I occasionally felt a desire to tip when the service rendered was exceptional, but on the whole the burden off my shoulders of the tipping Kabuki theater was refreshing.
This post highlights one aspect; why is the expected delivery tip based on the value of the meal? Nonsensical.
People are cheap and justifying their cheapness is just their rationalizing it away in order to ease their consciences.
When I worked, on occasion my company would cater an event. It was charged to my corporate credit card because it had no limit.
An event with 200 people x $20 per plate is $4,000. The law says I can tip 20% and not run afoul of the FASB. As did our auditing department. So I did. That's an $800 tip to a place that makes pizza. Or box lunches. No one does that and it was significantly more if a real restaurant catered an event. Most companies tip nothing unless there's a mandatory gratuity. But they should.
And every time I would go to one of those restaurants on my own, they'd treat me like God. They'd throw in all sorts of extras and freebees with my order. And they'd really open up to me as people. Pretty sweet. Didn't cost me a thing.
We have never used this service. We are expected to tip, as well a pay a delivery fee? I will just go get it myself.
FWIW, I have never even ordered a pizza for delivery.
During the pandemic I Door Dashed because my ability to work my regular job was shut down, was bored, and didn't know how long things would be closed up.
At least then you had enough info from DD to know about what you would get paid and how long it would take. Cost of the order didn't matter, Door Dash paid by distance plus customer tip. The also had peak time bonuses per trip during peak times...breakfast, lunch, and dinner, to encourage more drivers to come out when orders were plenty. I would pass on low paying trips for the amount of time it would take. I would also factor in restaurant waiting times...those that were always late getting food out, or would force drivers to go thru long drive thrus...PASS. I would also factor in destination, if the delivery was to a more remote area with no restaurants nearby, you would have to drive all the way back for your next delivery. Waste of time.
When I showed up for trips I accepted I would always ask the restaurant "how long"...if the wait was excessive, I would turn them back to Door Dash for reassignment. DD didn't like that and would threaten termination but it was clear that they were hungry for drivers. My acceptance rate was under 10%. Now I did find that generally people with expensive orders tipped well, they wanted it to be picked up fast and delivered quickly, but that was never part of the equation.
I would make as high as $50/hour...less gas. Average more like $25-$30.
I can't access the comments either, but I assume they say something like this: It takes exactly the same amount of effort to deliver a $20 bag of burgers as a $300 bag of sushi. Why are we expected to tip a far higher amount just because the stuff in the bag is more expensive? (Especially if the delivery drivers are cherry-picking the high-end orders, and ignoring the lower-end ones, in an attempt to game the system.)
Another issue I'd wonder about is whether the people at the restaurant are getting tipped adequately. Lately we've been told that when buying takeout, we should tip at least 15% of the total price -- because even if the food isn't being served in a restaurant, it takes effort to assemble. (And, presumably, putting together a $300 sushi platter would take a lot more effort than stacking burgers in a bag.) Whether or not you agree with that, it seems likely that they really get stiffed on delivery orders. Different apps handle tips for the restaurant staff in different ways, but it seems unlikely that most customers would tip both the restaurant and the driver generously. That's one of the reasons restaurant employees tend to hate delivery apps -- their tips are almost always lower.
Virtually every commenter makes the same point.
Is it that people can pick up their own food and pay these drivers nothing?
Oh, crap, Temujin. You’re referring to actual Canadians.
Locally, “Canadian” is an euphemism for another demographic known to be high-maintenance and low-tipping…
Due respect to Gusty, but I don't think a 20% tip to a delivery driver should be (or is) considered "standard." That would be a pretty healthy percentage on an eat-in restaurant meal. No way is it standard for someone whose sole function in the process is to bring the bag of food to your front door. Twenty percent of $388 is $77.60!
Decent people tip well. No excuses. If you are too cheap or too poor to leave a proper tip, then you should cook at home. There's no shame in that. In fact that's what I almost always do.
"Another issue I'd wonder about is whether the people at the restaurant are getting tipped adequately. Lately we've been told that when buying takeout, we should tip at least 15% of the total price -- because even if the food isn't being served in a restaurant, it takes effort to assemble."
I just about never eat out and don't order delivery. But still, I ordered a take-and-bake pizza at Papa Murphy's a couple of months ago. Last time was probably 15 years earlier. This time, upon checkout at the register, the option for a tip was presented?
WTF?
If I go to a restaurant, the staff seats me, perhaps even with a view to providing the sort of seat I prefer. If I have any questions about the menu, I can get recommendations or suggestions. During the meal, somebody will be by to see if my drink needs a refill and if there's a problem with the meal, somebody will address the issue. When I'm ready to go, I can give the server my cc and all I'll need to do is sign the receipt. Then, the staff cleans the table and takes the dishes back to the kitchen to wash. For this, a 20% tip is considered standard.
At Papa Murphy's, they spread cheese and toppings on a sheet of dough, wrap it in plastic and hand it to you. I cook it. I serve it. If I want a drink refill, I get it myself. I do the dishes. And their suggested tip? 20%.
Yeah, right.
Blogger PM said...
"In our house, food delivery remains the province of the infirm, aged or disabled.
Until them, we pick it up. Same with groceries; same with Avon."
We hardly ever have meals delivered. Something about doesn't feel right. We can get our own food.
I tip well. And I tip to a greater variety of service providers than I used to since the pandemic. When I can, I tip ahead of time - that includes wait staff. I’ve heard that women tip poorly so when I’m out with other women, my tip is even more generous. It’s true that the wait staff at very expensive restaurants and bars make a lot of money but I never go to those. At the places I frequent the wait staff is what I consider the working poor and I prefer to help them out rather then hand out money at the stop light - although I do that too (in memory of my mother who never turned down a request for money).
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