१५ जानेवारी, २०२३

"She actually indicated that she loved it. Okay? She loved it until the commercial break. In fact, I think she said it was sexy, didn't she? She said it was very sexy to be raped."

Said Donald Trump, in his deposition, quoted in "Trump claimed woman who accused him of sexual assault in a luxury department store said 'rape was sexy' and 'indicated that she loved it'" (Insider). The deposition was made public on Friday.
Carroll's attorney Roberta Kaplan then asked the former president: "So, sir, I just want to confirm: It's your testimony that E. Jean Carroll said that she loved being sexually assaulted by you?"
That gave Trump the opportunity to clarify that he was just talking about something he heard her say in an interview she did on television:
He responded: "Well, based on her interview with Anderson Cooper, I believe that's what took place." Trump repeated the claim that Carroll described rape as sexy several times and suggested that Cooper was in a "panic" over her comments, so he called for a commercial break.

What an important clarification! When I read the quote — the one I put in the post title — I thought "commercial break" was a metaphor that referred to a stage of the sexual activity that he's accused of engaging in with her. I thought he was saying they were in the middle of having sex and she said something like "It's very sexy to be raped." He's denied even having a sexual encounter with her but seemed to be conceding that he did. And would her remark mean that he knew she did not consent to sex or that she withdrew consent? I can see how you could argue that it does not, but it's a question of fact, and Carroll's burden of proof is a preponderance of the evidence.

Based on this news report — and I'd like to see the full text — I'd say that Trump did not react strongly enough to Kaplan's "It's your testimony that E. Jean Carroll said that she loved being sexually assaulted by you?" Maybe there are additional lines of testimony before he said "Well, based on her interview with Anderson Cooper, I believe that's what took place," but that is poorly worded if he means to deny that there was any encounter at all. The phrase "that's what took place" indicates that something took place. It sounds as though he's trying to use her statement in the TV interview to explain his understanding of the sexual encounter, as if he knew at the time that she enjoyed sex that outwardly resembled sex so he was giving her what she wanted. 

Not only is that wrong chronologically, it's not even an accurate representation of what Carroll said to Anderson Cooper:

In the 2019 interview, Carroll told Cooper that she did not like to use the word rape because it "carries so many sexual connotations" and that "most people think of rape as being sexy" and "think of the fantasies." By comparison, she said that her encounter with the former president "was not sexual. It just hurt."

She's arguing about the connotations of the word "rape." She was not even saying what she thinks about the word, only characterizing what other people may think and why she preferred to say — look at the transcript — "sexual violence."

Did Trump not understand the interview with Anderson Cooper or did he deliberately distort it? Carroll didn't "actually indicate[] that she loved it." The "Okay?" is infuriating. It sounds as though we need to get up to speed. I think he knows he's bullshitting — don't bullshit in a deposition! — because he switches to hedging: "In fact, I think she said it was sexy, didn't she?" But he lands on an affirmative statement as if he knows: "She said it was very sexy to be raped." No, she did not. 

Read the transcript!

ANDERSON COOPER: You don't use the word rape.
E. JEAN CARROLL: Sexual violence is in every country in every strata of society, and I just feel that so many women are undergoing sexual violence. Mine was short. I got out. I'm happy now. I'm moving on. And I think of all the women who are enduring constant sexual violence. So, this one incident, this one, what, three minutes in this little dressing room, I just say it's a fight. That way I'm not the victim, right? I'm not the victim.
COOPER: You don't feel like a victim.
CARROLL: I was not thrown on the ground and ravished. Which the word "rape" carries so many sexual connotations. This was not -- this was not sexual. It just hurt. It just --
COOPER: I think most people think of rape as a -- it is a violent assault. It is not --
CARROLL: I think most people think of rape as being sexy.
COOPER: Let's take a short break --
CARROLL: They think of the fantasies.
COOPER: We're going to take a quick break. If you can stick around we'll talk more on the other side....
COOPER [after the break]: Before the break, you said you don't use the word "rape." A lot of women hearing this, I mean, a lot of people hearing this who believe you would say that this is rape.
CARROLL: You know, I just have trouble with the word. I just have trouble. I write an advice column for 25 years and women write to me with these devastating stories and they have been violently, you know, disposed of by men. And I just -- I feel too much respect for their suffering. I didn't suffer, Anderson. I did not suffer. I didn't lose my job. I wasn't beaten. You know, I just don't use the --
COOPER: So you say you stomped your foot....

Cooper decided that was enough discussion of semantics and the larger problem of violence against women. They move on to the details of the encounter — her foot, her holding onto her purse the entire time. But you can see clearly from that transcript that she never says she finds rape sexy. She's trying to bring some intellectual depth to the subject. I see the influence of the feminism of the 1970s, which stressed that women were experiencing pure violence and that it wasn't sex at all. Cooper redirected her into shallower things: So you say you stomped your foot....

६३ टिप्पण्या:

Mark म्हणाले...

After everything else they have ignored, you think this will get Trump Toadies to reconsider?

IMO, this is much like the Biden document story - meant to move the old dude to retirement and away from the idea of running for office again.

But the die hards are going to defend this as usual.

Kate म्हणाले...

If I look past Mark's partisan tinge, he speaks the truth. I don't know what this story is and I don't care. Trump can be a privileged ass about women; we all know that. The important point is that both parties are trying to undermine their frontrunners. In a way, it's a relief. Get the old guys off the stage.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

If there's no police report at the time, it didn't happen.

donald म्हणाले...

Then maybe you should look into it huh?

rehajm म्हणाले...

The important point is that both parties are trying to undermine their frontrunners. In a way, it's a relief. Get the old guys off the stage.

Yes! I say bring on the new old guys!!!

Sally327 म्हणाले...

Trump has to be a nightmare of a client. Impossible to prep, impossible for him to park his ego long enough to accept that he should listen to and follow the advice of someone else in the room. It is fascinating, though, the extent to which he pays attention to tv news or cable talk shows and will extract some random phrase or scene and then spew that back out at some point. He does that a lot. Is he actually watching these shows or is one of his aides watching and then summarizing the contentss for him?

Owen म्हणाले...

What rhhardin said. Sorry folks, but the past decade or so of character assassination and victim-status claiming by #MeToo types (looking at you, Christine Blasey Ford, and your backers) has really ruined the game for everyone.

What has always been a difficult corner of criminal law with big evidentiary issues and turbocharged emotions is now for me a barren landscape. If the complainant can point to a police report sworn under penalty of perjury, OK, let’s open a file. If there is also physical evidence or corroborating eyewitness testimony or video or other recording —inculpatory texts or the like— then go ahead, bring a case. But showing up decades after the alleged incident, with nothing but a lurid story and double hearsay, suddenly moved to “strike a blow against the patriarchy” etc? Nah.

Breezy म्हणाले...

Jesse Watters asked an interesting question last week on The Five, paraphrasing: Why are we allowing a bunch of lawyers dictate who is eligible to be President?

These endless lawsuits and “criminal” investigations are a form of political manipulation. It’s for sure important to have info to understand the character of the people vying for the Presidency, but by putting them in chronic legal jeopardy, we’re only going to have Presidents of any stripe beholden to these lawyers. That’s not good.

Tina Trent म्हणाले...

If you have read her columns, she viewed such encounters as liberating. Zipless fuck era bullshit.

She doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Mary Beth म्हणाले...

The whole situation is weird. Did she raise her voice and yell for help? It was a dressing room in a big store in a big city. I'm sure there were people only feet away. When did she first accuse him? Was it when he was popular and like or did she do it when sentiment turned?

Trump, as usual, only hears what he wants to hear from the interview. It helps explain why he hired and kept people who were actively working against him. He doesn't hear or see what they are saying and doing that could indicate they weren't on team Trump.

I do (generally) like how Trump ran things. I would like to see him as a top advisor to someone who is better at sussing out who's going to work for their goals and who is going to undermine and leak.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Trump is so clumsy with his words. I find it odd that so many supposedly intelligent men have the hots for him.

Christopher B म्हणाले...

+1 Tina Trent.

CARROLL: I think most people think of rape as being sexy.
CARROLL: They think of the fantasies.


Confession by projection.

Temujin म्हणाले...

Man...Bill Clinton raped multiple women that we know of. They came out and talked- though most networks would not show the interviews. Joe Biden raped at least one who came out to talk about it, and come on...you're thinking right now that he's had a career full of sexual assaults, aren't you?

Then there's Obama. I am sure he had his 'dalliances'. But he's so charming, the women (and men) probably just took their clothes off and laid down in front of him.

I'm not doing a 'they all did it, so leave him alone' thing. I'm doing a...Hey...is this some sort of characteristic in those people (men?) who run for higher office? I'd say the answer is Yes.

We know it runs in the Senate. Sens. Kennedy and Dole were famous for it. But in the end, it's all about getting Trump. And my God, they have tried everything possible to 'get Trump'. One of these will stick. It's used up years of thought and creativity from the left. They need to get on with their lives.

Leland म्हणाले...

Not a good thing to get the transcript wrong in a defamation case. But speaking of defamation: "I think most people think of rape as being sexy." - Carroll.

I feel defamed.

Lurker21 म्हणाले...

Trump isn't a details guy. That hasn't worked out terribly for him when he's acting from his own initiative. When he has to play defense, though, it results in real problems.

Is he actually watching these shows or is one of his aides watching and then summarizing the contents for him?

I think he probably picks things up the way we all do, over the internet and social media, or else he has a TV on all the time upstairs. I don't believe he's intently watching every show he references or that he tasks aides with watching. Probably, though, he was watching Carroll's Anderson Cooper interview, since she brought a case against him.

If you have read her columns, she viewed such encounters as liberating.

It sounds like she celebrated fleeting sexual encounters, but she didn't and probably wouldn't say that to be "rape raped" was a positive experience. The distinctions are blurry in Carroll's own mind, but Trump should have been more careful.

Rusty म्हणाले...

Mary Beth said...
"The whole situation is weird."
I have found that in such cases the information is coming second hand.

Christopher B म्हणाले...

To enlarge on my earlier comment, she's obviously applying the Whoopi standard. There's 'sexy rape' that you enjoy, and 'rape rape' that is 'not sexual', which is the huge tell. Even attempting to rename it 'sexual violence' is still meant to invoke the sympathy and suspension of disbelief that often accompanies those ambiguous situations. In an oddly mirror way, Trump is trying to do the same thing. If it happened of course she would lie about because women always lie about sexual encounters they later regret, even if they enjoyed it at the time.

Either she has actual evidence that she was assaulted by Trump or she doesn't. Nobody would give a flying fig about her attempts to bring 'intellectual depth' to the discussion if she wasn't making accusations against him.

Aggie म्हणाले...

The endless queue of entertaining peccadilloes.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Trump walks into this crap. and then he steps on his dick.

hombre म्हणाले...

Mark: "After everything else they have ignored, you think this will get Trump Toadies to reconsider?"

I don't know, Mark, did Juanita Broaddrick's and others more believable allegations "get" you and other Clinton Toadies to acknowledge that he was an habitual sex offender? Was his electability by Democrats affected?

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

Blogger Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
Trump is so clumsy with his words. I find it odd that so many supposedly intelligent men have the hots for him.

CARROLL: "I think most people think of rape as being sexy."

Is this the analysis that comes from the new TDS?? Trump's words? Everything is Trump's fault. Even this woman's insanity and thirst for attention...

It's his fault if he slept with this nut bag, yes.

Imagine what a woman who can say this on live TV says during sex. And then she turns around and says she was "assaulted". Yeah right.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

I always thought her story was a bunch of Swetnik garbage.
Now? Now that Trump is saying these things - perhaps they did have sex in a dressing room.
Who knows.
It was so long ago. and yeah - if he really raped her- where were her yells of RAPE?! Where were her calls for help? Why didn't she call the police? Why didn't she report it?

If someone tried to rape a woman in a dressing room in a dept store- unless there was a gun involved - they would yell for help.

so - they probably did have sex. Now that she is a devoted democrat - she sees the opening to use it to destroy him. simple stuff really. More easy pile on.

and yeah - any accusation against Trump is treated like a cut and dry case. If it's a D - the media rush in for cover. (or *total ignore* in the case of Biden)

narciso म्हणाले...

they left out his denial, and he brought up her dubious bonafides, of course this case was a travisham to be admitted in court to begin with,

note how epstein's client list doesn't leak, like bill gates admitting to judy woodruff 'well he died didn't he'

hombre म्हणाले...

HBTFH (8:02): "I find it odd that so many supposedly intelligent men have the hots for him."

It is odder that so many people professing intelligence believe that support for Trump reflects men "having the hots for him" rather than appreciation for the state of the nation during his presidency. It is, of course, addiction to Trump the man, as opposed to Trump the President, that obscures this fact for some.

This latter is particularly odd given the cataclysmic deterioration of the state of the nation in two short years since he left office.

rcocean म्हणाले...

I see the Dumb nevertrumpers and and "Republican Moderates" are at it again.

Helping the Democrats destroy Trump will just ensure he will lose if he's nominated in 2024. And destroying Trump doesn't help DeSantis beat the Democrats in 2024 either.

Of course, the republican establishment (and all their followers) has made it clear, they DONT CARE ABOUT WINNING. They wanted to lose in 2016, they were happy to lose in 2020 and they will be happy to lose in 2024.

IRC, all this crap with this women happened 20 years ago. Who gives a damn about her or her supposed "assault". If she was so worked up about, why did she take 15-20 years to do anything? Nonsense. As RH said, show me the police report.

wendybar म्हणाले...

"Then there's Obama. I am sure he had his 'dalliances'. But he's so charming, the women (and men) probably just took their clothes off and laid down in front of him."

Larry Sinclair wrote a book about his "dalliances" with Obama. Of course the media called him a racist crackpot...because NOBODY can diss their Messiah.

robother म्हणाले...

"Trump has to be a nightmare of a client." Word.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Gusty - Trump doesn't help himself with his clumsy dick-stepping words.

To me -that's not good presidential material. I come to his defense all the time. His fan-bios merely lose their minds over everything - to remain loyal to him, no matter what. Why?
I'm merely pointing it out.

Iman म्हणाले...

they’ve got him now. This I can tell you.

/sarc

Sebastian म्हणाले...

Slightly OT: "The "Okay?" is infuriating."

Agreed. It often is. More infuriating than the misuse of garner.

Dude1394 म्हणाले...

If there is no police report. It didn’t happen.

Narr म्हणाले...

More lawfare against the biggest threat to the continuing scam known as the government of the United States of America.

What ever happened to the commonsense doctrine that you can't rape a whore?

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

I cannot imagine Ron DeSantis being involved with such scummy low-lives or saying such things as a defense.

Wake up - Ever Trumpers. he's old and stupid.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

Good Lord, Professor, can you ever give it a rest? You hate Donald Trump enough to crawl naked over burning coals for yet another chance to slam him. We all get that.

I believe Tara Reade. I believe Juanita Broaddrick. I do not believe E. Jean Carroll. I do not want Donald Trump to run in 2024, but giving credence to the testimony of this strumpet gives the lie to even the most basic notion of fairness in America.

Michael K म्हणाले...

Mark said...

After everything else they have ignored, you think this will get Trump Toadies to reconsider?

IMO, this is much like the Biden document story - meant to move the old dude to retirement and away from the idea of running for office again.

But the die hards are going to defend this as usual.


Lefty Mark is sure about this 30 year old claim. How about the lady who claimed Biden sexually assaulted her ? That was not 30 years later.

narciso म्हणाले...

so is mcconnell, but he's evil, and probably a traitor,

Drago म्हणाले...

Gusty Winds: "Is this the analysis that comes from the new TDS?? Trump's words? Everything is Trump's fault."

The Ever-McConnells like HBTPFH have been this dumb and easily led around by the nose for years now. So, the "new TDS" is just like the old TDS.

Its never going to change. They will literally think and do whatever the GOPe-ers and legacy media tell them to think and do.

n.n म्हणाले...

Did she acknowledge a masochistic character? Was there a gender assault? The allegations are equitable and separable. #MeTooFordEtAlSocialProgress

Keith म्हणाले...

I recall, reading the story from a long time ago. My recollection is the incident occurred many years before it came into the news. My recollection is there was an affair between this well-known women and a prominent powerful man. They were in a high end store, and had relations in the Changing room. I imagine it would be like being in the mile high club. Eight fantasy being enacted. At the time my recollection is she considered it to be something wild and crazy. Which I’m sure it was. Like having relations in the opera in between acts. it was years later that a friend convinced her to think of it as rape, which she had never thought of it until that time. Then it became public and it became necessary for all right thinking people to hate this man. And so it came out into the open when it was obligatory for everyone to hate him, and obligate Tory for everyone to find every incident in the past that could be used against him. If it were really as bad as people say now, she should have filed a police report when it happened. My impression is that it is one of these fantasy six kind of things. Wild and understandable and odd, and not rape.

n.n म्हणाले...

If there is no police report. It didn’t happen.

Pretty much. Society should encourage women and underage girls to come forward and testify under oath, and not abort, cannibalize, sequester the "burden" of evidence in darkness of sanctuary states, at the border. Men and boys, too, with transgender trends.

Rabel म्हणाले...

This is the transcript one needs to read to understand the dishonesty in this article.

It's the actual deposition. In it, under oath, Trump denies the event took place.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

"I write an advice column for 25 years and women write to me with these devastating stories and they have been violently, you know, disposed of by men."

She's so stupid she thinks the letters to advice columnists are real.

Keith म्हणाले...

I assumed the incident did, in fact happen. It sounds kind of hot. Assuming it was not real rape, but rather a fantasy being fulfilled. If this were, however, real rape, it was self evident he was not going to kill her, and she could have simply just yelled out. It would not be like say being in a bad part of town, and getting assaulted where you don’t know if the guy will kill you or not and there is no one there to help. She is in a high-end store. She knows with certainty that Trump is not going to murder her. So, if you were truly raped, she could have yelled out. And if she were afraid, she could have simply made loud sex noises and someone would have opened the curtain to see what was going on and it would have stopped. It does not make any sense that she was raped as we understand that word.

Drago म्हणाले...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker: "I cannot imagine Ron DeSantis being involved with such scummy low-lives or saying such things as a defense."

Can you "imagine" Ron staffing up with DC insiders and having 90%+ of his donations coming from the globalist wall streeters who opposed everything Trump did as President?

They probably are doing that because they want "Trump's policies without Trump's drama", right?

Drago म्हणाले...

HBTPFH: "I come to his defense all the time."

LOL

Drago म्हणाले...

robother: ""Trump has to be a nightmare of a client." Word."

Some people think the democraticals and their GOPe allies have turned our court systems into a nightmare.

I guess that's Trump's fault too.

Drago म्हणाले...

narciso: "they left out his denial, and he brought up her dubious bonafides, of course this case was a travisham to be admitted in court to begin with,..."

Oh no. Trump is quite guilty according to the dems and their strong GOPe allies. After all, he did defeat the anointed one and the dems and GOPe-ers are never going to stop punishing him for that.

walter म्हणाले...

"The deposition was made public on Friday. "
Interesting timing.
Typical interval?

walter म्हणाले...

Tara Reade 🐎
@ReadeAlexandra
·
Dec 12, 2022
I was interviewed by @TuckerCarlson
and he treated me with kindness as I spoke about that very rough experience of sexual assault by Joe Biden when I worked for him in the Senate. I hope there is an investigation into Joe Biden by Congress for what he did to me and to all of us.

walter म्हणाले...

narciso said...like bill gates admitting to judy woodruff 'well he died didn't he'
--
Harry Reid too, though his approach lives on.

takirks म्हणाले...

Two points to be made here: One, anyone thinking that there's any way of ascertaining what the truth of the matter actually is, at this point? They're insane. This is why we have statutes of limitations; if you wait thirty-plus years to make your accusations of sexual assault, then make them with zero physical evidence? How on earth is something like that to be adjudicated? Human memory being what it is, if some woman came up and accused me of raping her in a changing room thirty-forty years ago, I'd be hard-pressed to remember what the hell I was doing on that date in sufficient detail to be able to defend myself against the accusation. Other than the fact that I'm not in the habit of rape, that is...

The second thing is this: If you're thinking that any of these people, Trump, DeSantis, Biden... Whoever... Are your saviors? LOL... Nope; not going to happen. You invest all this emotional capital in any of them, you're doomed to disappointment. I never expected much out of Trump, other than NotHillary™. You're not going to get much more out of DeSantis; you're sure as hell not going to get "saving the Republic" out of Biden or any of the Democratic Party ilk.

Long story short, don't expect any of these cretins to do anything for you. Just enjoy the decline, because you had the misfortune to be born at the end-era of our Republic. What comes next? Who knows? But, don't fall for the "Man on a Horse" scam; that'll only end in more tears.

narciso म्हणाले...

they spent two years on a phony witchhunt against matt gaetz, who pointed out the criminality of the regime, who brought accountability with the marathon vote session,

of course no case has been allowed against cuomo fils, from the nudge nudge to the premeditated murder of tens of thousands of elderly in nursing homes,

they accused general flynn of being honey trapped, of course the fact the woman involved was a lead whistleblower against the corrupt sberbank that hired podesta to flack for them,

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Drag queen, the trump-humper eternal - hath spoken.

Obey.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

There is close to zero chance Carroll is telling the truth about being raped, and about a five to ten percent chance that she ever had sex with Trump even one time. Her story about rape is almost implausible, but not quite implausible. Reade's story, on the other hand, does have some temporal confirmation, but again it fails to convince me simply because she didn't file a report at the time, just told some third parties about it, and there is proof she did so. Carroll can't even do that much.

I read the transcript- Trump denied ever having sex with her- full stop- much less raping her. Of the two stories, I find his more believable. Of course, he couldn't stop there, he had to try to use her own words against her in a clumsy fashion. Serves him right for letting his mouth run away with him, but it doesn't add any weight to her claims.

narciso म्हणाले...

of course who was gaetz accuser, greenberg another corrupt sob, like william allen who they employed in alaska, against ted stevens, he practiced trafficking, and his fbi handler mary beth kempner, knew how to handle him, nudge nudge,

Jim at म्हणाले...

Again, one of the most famous men in America just happens to saunter into a high-end department store - with nobody noticing - and rapes a woman. And then leaves. Again, without anybody noticing.

It's bullshit on steroids.

narciso म्हणाले...

this is the same court system and prosecutors that tried to protect weinstein from his accusers,

Bunkypotatohead म्हणाले...

One gets the impression she just wanted him to send her flowers afterward.
Like Mr. Big.

Drago म्हणाले...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker: "Drag queen, the trump-humper eternal - hath spoken.

Obey."

You were wise not to engage on substance or facts since those are a couple of your weakest areas.

Not to worry though. Howard and Inga will be along shortly to buck you up.

Sprezzatura म्हणाले...

How many DJT NFTs does Drago have?

Smart people buy DJT NFTs. TDS folks are dumb hence they don’t follow DJT’s lead. Drago is smart he follows DJT’s lead.

Nice म्हणाले...

The E. Jean Carroll Youtube channel (her own stuff) is hilarious. Titles such as "The Proper Way to Shag a Chap". This is advice the lovelorn ?

Tina Trent म्हणाले...

She's an insult to real rape victims and should be treated as such. And there is traumatic, real, date rape, but this isn't that. And I've read the published transcripts. The woman is a potty-minded narcissistic politically motivated attention seeker. Her behavior is harming real victims by further warping jury pools.

Twat.

Tina Trent म्हणाले...

Narciso: I spent an ugly social evening after a speaking event with Matt Gaetz, and his behavior is despised by real social conservatives in his district. He is a pig who has been unqualified for office since his first election run by crooked daddy in the Florida House. Otherwise I agree with you.