२३ जानेवारी, २०२३

"It’s estimated that some fifty million new things get classified each year, and the more than two million people with security clearances, military and civilian, can potentially add to the pile..."

"... by one route or another. Presidents do not have the power to declassify documents psychically, as Trump has suggested, but their power to do so in other ways is surprisingly broad and ill-defined, governed largely by executive orders and precedent. That reality had complicated the legal case against Trump even before Biden’s lawyers found the first documents. The President has not yet said for sure if he will run again in 2024. The affair of the documents may prove something of a stress test. Republicans would no doubt like to see all these story lines—the documents, Hunter, the Corvette, Communists—merge into a lurid fog that obscures the real line between Trump’s case and Biden’s. They are not the same, and that is something worth emphasizing. But the fact that these two very different men, for different reasons, both had classified documents in their homes should be cause for reflection about our system of secrecy, too."

१०६ टिप्पण्या:

R C Belaire म्हणाले...

As observed/commented on elsewhere, this "overclassification" issue wasn't raised during and after the FBI raid on Trump. Karma is a b**ch.

RideSpaceMountain म्हणाले...

The commenter Takirks a few weeks ago had an excellent observation regarding classified/compartmentalized information. But in defense of sanitizers, while the decisions they make from the outside look subjective and esoteric, people need to understand they are forced in many cases by rulebooks, classification guides, laws, precedent, and common sense forcing them to err on the side of extreme caution.

Talk to any intelligence specialist and they'll tell you that a great deal can be discerned from seemingly minute, seemingly unimportant information, and the sanitizers job is to catch that.

Just a thought.

Another old lawyer म्हणाले...

I'm sure that this is right . . . but that doesn't mean the laws don't apply to documents/info that are classified.

I worked for a large company that had a document retention policy that as a practical matter was impossible to comply with - ambiguous, overly complex, overlapping categories, way too time-intensive to anyone who worked using emails. I always thought that the policy was a perfect pretense to fire anyone they wanted gone because you couldn't help but violate the policy.

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

It is amazing the lengths to which the Left has gone to distinguish the Trump and Biden cases; all in favor of Biden.

I saw Neal Katyal, the former Deputy Solicitor General, make a failed attempt at it.

Enigma म्हणाले...

Classification's main positive benefit is to "protect methods and sources." Sometimes friendly foreigners or vulnerable citizens tell secrets that would get them or their families killed if made public. But, that's used to cover up all sorts of sins.

Classification's sins include stupidly classifying public information as controlled secrets when combined. A is not classified. B is not classified. C is not classified. Combine A + B + C and it's classified. Another big big big issue is to use classification rules to cover up incompetence, corruption, and political biases. This forces slow investigations until after the world has moved on and after they have retired. They also love to brand legit critics as traitors.

Many of the people who scream "national security" are either involved with contracts ($$$) or switch allegiances as needed (e.g., former enemies Germany and Japan became allies; Venezuela went from friend to enemy, etc.) Personal security is #1, while national security is a vehicle to get there.

Don't blame Trump and don't blame Biden. Blame the Deep State tricksters and game players.

Sebastian म्हणाले...

"It’s estimated that some fifty million new things get classified each year"

Trump wants to keep classified material: national security at risk! Biden turns out to have classified documents from decades back: too much stuff gets classified! who can keep track?

"Republicans would no doubt like to see all these story lines"

Republicans pounce!

"these two very different men, for different reasons, both had classified documents in their homes"

What were Biden's reasons? Did he have "reasons"?

"cause for reflection about our system of secrecy, too."

Now that "the system" trips up a Dem in somewhat embarrassing fashion.

"House Republicans are ramping up conspiracy theories"

Republicans pounce! Bad Republicans!

gilbar म्हणाले...

the real line between Trump’s case and Biden’s.

The real line: The President can unilaterally unclassify at will
VP's and Senators aren't allowed to take classified documents home with them. Let alone KEEP them

TreeJoe म्हणाले...

You can always tell when someone writes something to obfuscate, by when they try to create separate levels of accountability.

tim maguire म्हणाले...

Presidents do not have the power to declassify documents psychically, as Trump has suggested

Yes, they do. Because nobody has the authority to say they don't. Nobody has the authority to limit the president's ability to declassify documents. It is absolute. Somebody should let Ms. Sorkin know before she makes a mistake like this again.

The Drill SGT म्हणाले...

Having held a TS, most of the time SCI, since 1970, the article is correct.

But the sort of stuff available to the POTUS or VP is not low level google searches.

It is distilled intel product,

mccullough म्हणाले...

The Biden handmaidens spin their yarns.

Saying Trump’s retention of “classified documents” is worse than Biden’s without knowing what information is in the documents is bullshit.

Concern about over classification now that Biden got caught is special pleading.

Biden is president. He can declassify all the documents and release them to the public so we can make up our own minds. But he hasn’t done that.

JAORE म्हणाले...

Over classification? You bet.

He was probably mulling this over during the peak dust up over the Trump documents. Just a co-inky-dink that it is finally published now that Biden is exposed.

William म्हणाले...

In jurisprudence there is a huge difference between a mass murderer and a serial murderer. Someone who kills only five or six people over as many years is quite different from someone who shoots up a mall or school in a killing spree. I think we can all agree that the serial murderer should be treated with more consideration and, yes, forgiveness than the mass murderer. Being a serial murderer shows the kind of lapse in judgement that we're perhaps all guilty of. Being a mass murderer though is a heinous unforgivable crime.

Misinforminimalism म्हणाले...

I guess the theory is that there are so many classified documents that Biden couldn't possibly have gotten rid of all of them. Like cockroaches or something.

Not a particularly good theory, but when you decide to shill for a crook, that's where you wind up.

hawkeyedjb म्हणाले...

Dang, we had Trump, but now Biden's associated with the same "problem." Gotta go find some nuance to protect the Democrat.

Harold म्हणाले...

I could be misremembering but it seems like this over classification concern only becomes prominent when a Democrat falls afoul of the rules. Having held a security clearance once upon a time I happen to agree that things are frequently over classified but it isn't a new issue and it's highly unlikely that the rules and practices around classification will change any time soon. It's also unlikely that anyone other than low ranking service members and civilian staff will ever face any significant punishment for violating the rules.

Creola Soul म्हणाले...

Probably true there is an over classification problem. But that does not, in any way, excuse, the sloppy handling of the documents in any way. The situation is really simple: follow the law. You may not like it, but the law is the law.
The Trump document breach was at least in his office, which was guarded by the Secret Service. Biden’s situation is much different. After being VP, you don’t get lifetime Secret Service protection. So there was a window when these documents were not protected by the Secret Service’s general protection of the VP.
As James J. Wells (Wilford Bremley) said in “Absence of Malice”…..”abide by and enforce the law.” Period, regardless of who’s involved.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

...by one route or another. Presidents do not have the power to declassify documents psychically, as Trump has suggested, but their power to do so in other ways is surprisingly broad and ill-defined, governed largely by executive orders and precedent.

Well, if you've got back stabbers like Bill Barr and the deep state slow rolling Presidential orders to declassify at the end of a term then I guess that is now considered "psychic" declassification.

I believe to we are learning, without a doubt, classification is used to hide government activity and corruption from the American people, more than it is no protect against competitive or enemy foreign interests.

In the case of Biden, more than likely the classified documents he removed and stored next to his Corvette have a lot to do with foreign influence and money he grifted over a lifetime of "service".

wendybar म्हणाले...

So Trump is innocent too then, right??

Immanuel Rant म्हणाले...

What odd timing to suddenly discover this "over classification" problem.

I don't recall any of these concerns being mentioned before. I wonder what possibly could have caused this introspection?

It will probably remain a mystery forever.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

I've read smarter people than this writer say that the president does have very broad leeway.

As for Joe, he NEVER had the ability to declassify anything.

And how the hell does he have documents from his time in the senate?

Who took them? Who transported them? Who has seen them in the years since?

It's about fairness. 'Normal' people with clearances would spend hard time in Leavenworth if they did anything close to what Joe or Hillary did.

iowan2 म्हणाले...

I read through the article and the author does the standard leftist shading of facts, ignoring the known, and errors of fact and omission.

I have yet to see even one leftist lay out a plausible way to Prosecute President Trump.
There is no answer to the Presidents plenary power to declassify. And no, The President is not bound by any required protocol. Evan a Protocol written by the President, does no bind the President.
Not a perfect comparison, but there exists a White House Pardon office. It is charged with reviewing all the pardon requests and advancing to the President, only meritorious candidates. The President is not bound by that process, and there is no limits to the Presidents Constitutional Plenary power to Pardon.

Rit म्हणाले...

Did I miss the part in that article where Sorkin points out that Biden was not the president at the time when he improperly removed and kept classified documents? That he was a VP, and apparently a senator, when he did so? So yeah, the cases are indeed different.

Fredrick म्हणाले...

"Presidents do not have the power to declassify documents psychically, .... but their power to do so in other ways is surprisingly broad and ill-defined, governed largely by executive orders and precedent."

Very little classification authority stems from law, it stems from executive orders. No president is bound by his predecessors 'precedent' in regards to executive orders. DACA, of course, being the 'exception', because nobody on one side of the aisle would like to see Trump II issueing an EO making it null and void, due to 'reasons'.

rcocean म्हणाले...

As Trump "suggested" which means he didn't say that, just the reporter interpeted his words to mean that. Because the reporter is being "helpful" and "objective" as opposed to being a leftist who hates Trump and wants him to look as dumb as possible.

The fact is Trump, declassied the documents had the right to do so, and to have them in his possession. What about Biden? WHo knows.

The writing styles of the MSM and the few conservative outlets differ significantly. The Leftwing MSM (which means 99 pecent) never miss an opportuninty to slip in an insult or attack on Trump or some conservative/republican. Meanwhile, Fox news or nY post always MISS an opportuning to do the same to the Democrats/Left. You see the same thing on Twitter, where the Rightwinger will bring up something bad about a Leftist, and forget it tommorrow, while the Leftists NEVER LET IT GO. EVER.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

When corrupt entities like the J6 committee or the CDC want to keep important information regarding their activities secret for 60 years, it’s not to protect the American people. It is to protect themselves and their lies and dirt.

I’m sure if the American people were allowed to see all the files on the Kennedy assassination, the War on Terror, J6, COVID lockdowns and the “vaccine” rollout we’d all realize we are living a lie when it comes to “government of the people, by the people, and for the people”. Those days are GONE.

Snowden let us all know that the federal government used 9/11 and the Patriot Act to spy on Americans without warrants. Didn’t you used to have to get permission to tap somebody’s land line phone? Now that we have coordination between Big Tech and the Deep State, none of those protection exist anymore. Christopher Wray was bragging about in publicly at the WEF Davos “let’s blow each other and screw the world” conference.

I read that high priced hookers flock to Davos for the annual meeting of the global elite. You could probably affect the polar ice caps with the hand job friction alone. These assholes fly private jets and bang hookers at the party while plotting to protect themselves and track every movement the rest of us make.

I want my life classified too dammit!!

How about we declassify their greater than $600 dollar Venmo transactions and see who they are banging? Bet it’s a lot of poor young women from Ukraine. And I’m sure they are not all 18.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

Blogger wendybar said...
So Trump is innocent too then, right??

Innocent of what? They've never named anything he is actually guilty of...

Mike Sylwester म्हणाले...

Presidents do not have the power to declassify documents psychically, as Trump has suggested

While Trump still was President, he ordered the declassification of all the RussiaGate documents.

However, the Deep State dawdled in declassifying them while he still was in office. That's why Trump took those documents home with him.

Trump did not declassify the RussiaGate documents "psychically". Rather, he signed a written order to declassify them while he still was President.

Marty म्हणाले...

More partisan hack journalism from the usual sources. Call me when the New Yorker prints something out of character, please.

Mike Sylwester म्हणाले...

They are not the same, and that is something worth emphasizing.

They are similar, and that is something worth emphasizing.

Temujin म्हणाले...

Just a side question: Do all Sorkins use three names?

Just wondering.
Signed,

Temujin 'Nebuchadnezzar' Sorkin

iowan2 म्हणाले...

As alluded to by others. The DoJ has never filed any charges, and has never claimed classified documents were/are in the Trumps possession. Even the DoJ is forced to admit they just want "marked classified"
As Mike Sylvester explains, the deep state sat on orders to declassify, running out the clock. My bet, every single document in Trumps possession has a corresponding letter from the President to declassify, that never was fullfilled.

This has always been a made up problem. Yes every President has taken classified material. Even Obama admits in a letter to the national Archives that he is paying the NA to store all PRA and classified documents in Chicago.

Mike Sylwester म्हणाले...

Why doesn't Trump simply inform the public that this controversy is about the RussiaGate documents that he ordered, in writing, to be declassified while he still was the President?

Trump has been a tough businessman for most of his life. He was written a book about tough negotiating tactics.

One of the negotiating tactics that he has learned and practiced during those many years is to keep key information secret, until the revelation becomes really necessary. He likes, late in the negotiating process, to surprise people with key information that favors his position.

gspencer म्हणाले...

Biden's possessing those docs is still the tail end of what he's done his whole life = grift off his public office and oath of office to become rich. It's straight-up insider trading.

He'd get valuable information from secret docs, then set his targets. In time he'd use Hunter.

This is all so despicable, made all the more despicable by his phony "I'm a good Catholic" mumbo-jumbo.

Lem Vibe Bandit म्हणाले...

Now that Biden had them in his Hunter-a-lago, it’s - ‘you know we just have too many secrets documents out there wandering into peoples houses.’

It’s going from, ‘how could Trump be so careless’ to ‘people can’t help but windup with them there are so many’.

Biden’s secret docs are like Omicron.

Fred Drinkwater म्हणाले...

William, Bravo!

Fred Drinkwater म्हणाले...

Mike, and as soon as Trump's signature hit the page of that EO, those docs were declassified. There is no requirement for further process, verification, or approval, by anyone.

RNB म्हणाले...

Shorter Sorkin: Mistakes were made on both sides, so let's call it a draw. Oh, look! A squirrel!

Darkisland म्हणाले...

When I was in nuclear power school all our course materials were classified, including homework such as working math problems.

A lot of it had nothing to do with nuclear or the navy. Especially in the first part where we were just learning algebra, logarithms, simple electrical circuits and such. A lot of it I had already seen in HS.

I suspect that much of it was just to get us in practice for when we got into real secrets about how nuclear reactors work and so on.

OTOH, if the Russkis did know what the Navy's nuclear operators were learning in training, it might have given some useful hints as to capabilities.

John Henry

Roger Sweeny म्हणाले...

It is hardly a secret in Washington that 1) way too many documents are classified, and 2) people are often careless with classified documents because they know so many classified documents don't deserve to be.

It may be unfair that it took Biden being caught for the media to publicize that, but we should all be glad it is happening. Now, is it too much to hope something will be done to fix the problem of overclassification?

MikeD म्हणाले...

I still want to know why Biden's lawyers went on a "classified papers" search when they did?

JRoberts म्हणाले...

Old saying: "It's not that I can't keep a secret, it's the people I tell who can't keep a secret"

JRoberts म्हणाले...

Also, this article reminds me of the articles that always get written when a Democrat President is struggling it's because the job is "too much" for one person and needs to be split up between a President and a Prime Ministry like other nations.

When a Republican President is struggling, it's aways an issue of "competence".

Robert Cook म्हणाले...

Declassify everything. Require the President or any government agencies to submit special requests for documents to be classified and require them justify their requests before Congress in open sessions. Allow classification only in the rarest of rare circumstances. Require those few documents that are granted classified status be automatically declassified no later than five years from the date the document(s) were initially classified. Do not allow any documents to be classified again at the end of the permitted five year span. Allow any member of Congress to have access to all documents, even those rare documents that are granted classified status.

Classification is largely a means to prevent the public from knowing what our government is doing, which usurps our sovereignty over the government as secrecy prevents us from being able to govern ourselves via public oversight of the decisions and actions of those who represent and work for us. The other great reason for rampant classification is that it is the chief means by which the government and its agencies and officials hide institutional and individual failures, lies, malfeasance, corruption, and criminality.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

People are missing the most most critical difference — the documents left in Joe Biden’s office contained compartmented data. Dissemination of this information is much more restricted than ordinary Top Secret data. That foreign nationals had unrestricted access to the area where these documents were stored compounds the felony.

I cannot emphasize this strongly enough. Joe Biden’s blunder in mishandling SCI days was a serious criminal offense. That Bob Hur, Merrick Garland, Chris Wray, and others may wish to use prosecutorial discretion to sweep it under the rug does not lessen the offense.

Where the Democrats and the newsmedia are trying to go with this is a three-tiered justice system. Tier one — sufficiently powerful Democrats can ignore any laws and regulations they find burdensome in any way. Tier two — nearly everyone else. And note that the laws and regulations these days are so complex, counterintuitive, and contradictory that all of us probably violate a bunch of them every day of our lives. Tier three — important Republicans, notably Donald Trump but including the junk lawsuits against Sarah Palin. I don’t see how we can tolerate this system for long, but right now I would say it’s getting worse, not better.

Earnest Prole म्हणाले...

Now they tell us.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Robert Cook म्हणाले...

"So Trump is innocent too then, right??"

For simply having classified documents in their personal domiciles? Yes, they're either both guilty or both innocent.

There may be differences in how each of them utilized the documents they held, (if at all), and those differences might determine if any charges could or should be preferred.

Robert Cook म्हणाले...

"Trump has been a tough businessman for most of his life."

So he purports.

"He was written a book about tough negotiating tactics."

The book was ghost-written.

Hey Skipper म्हणाले...

Classification's main positive benefit is to "protect methods and sources." Sometimes friendly foreigners or vulnerable citizens tell secrets that would get them or their families killed if made public. But, that's used to cover up all sorts of sins.

Once upon a time I had a TS/SCI/COSMIC/ATOMAL clearance, so I have some first hand experience.

It is true that the most often cited reason for classification is protecting methods and sources, but it isn't the only one. Classification also prevents adversaries from knowing what we know, what we don't know, and what we think we know that is wrong. Never mind revealing our own capabilities — what is the range of that F-15E radar, anyway?

Excessive classification, or classification for nefarious reasons, is an entirely separate issue from the correct handling of classified info.

I never knew of anyone violating rules regarding handling. Of course, we were only field grade officers, so putting a foot wrong would result in Very Bad Things.

JPS म्हणाले...

We do over-classify. I'll have that discussion anytime – except to get any specific politician off the hook.

When my guy screws up, the spilled material was probably unnecessarily classified anyway. When yours does, it was probably critical nuclear weapon design information and millions of Americans will die as a result.

Getting tired of the hackery.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

You get in trouble if you fail to classify. There's no penalty for overclassifying.

Gk1 म्हणाले...

This seems like a replay of when Hillary had her private server and had classified emails on it. The MSM bent over backwards to pretend it was no big deal and largely incurious as to what was in the 33,000 emails her lawyers said were personal emails.

They even weakly went after Colin Powell who had fwd 1 email to his AOL account. "You see everyone does it!" was their last defense before Comey let her off the hook.

n.n म्हणाले...

From an overdue library book and predawn raid to classified documents sold in equitable and inclusive markets for Democrat progress.

VP Biden is like SoS Clinton by way of Pres Obama.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Media not interested in Tony Bobolinski has to say.

The Bidens are crooks. Liars and money grubbing crooks.

This document stuff is just wall-paper and BS.

MikeR म्हणाले...

"Presidents do not have the power to declassify documents psychically" I see that others have commented on this. A very dishonest line, trying to sneak around having to admit that a President's power to declassify may well be complete enough to leave Joe Biden as the only one in jeopardy.
"Let's find a way to say it that isn't true!"

David53 म्हणाले...

Show me the document that prevents a sitting President from declassifying a document any way he wants to. You can’t, it doesn’t exist. He is the ultimate classification authority, he can take classified documents from the situation room/SCIF, walk to the WH press briefing room, declare he is declassifying the docs and start reading them out loud. Who would physically restrain him? No one has the authority to stop him. Trump was still President when he had documents shipped to Florida. The documents may be the people’s, but if he communicated they’re declassified, in any way, to anyone, then they’re declassified. VPs and senators are a different story.

I worked 16 years stamping secret docs up to the TS/SCI code word level. In my opinion, 60% of the documents I worked with shouldn’t have been classified at all. We were told, when in doubt, to over classify.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

'Now that Biden had them in his Hunter-a-lago, it’s - ‘you know we just have too many secrets documents out there wandering into peoples houses.’'

Car-a-Lago?™

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

the media(D) still playing cover for the Crook Biden family.

tommyesq म्हणाले...

"...one thing seems clear: the government's classification system has an overclassification addiction..."

Funny how it was not clear at all until Biden got caught, huh?

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

The "Ah yes, it's no big deal, there are too many classified documents anyway" defense. That this person, somehow, did not write when Trump's classified documents were the news.
It's different when Democrats do it. As noted right out of the box.

Jaq म्हणाले...

So did the article ever give a reason that the cases are different other than that Joe Biden is a darling of the New Yorker, and therefore it is impossible that he should have any nefarious motives?

Did it address the access that Chinese nationals had to the documents, or Hunter Biden, for that matter?

Known Unknown म्हणाले...

The author is correct, but immaterial to which party is in power or which bad man has documents.

Maynard म्हणाले...

I completely agree with Cook's last paragraph.

Mr Wibble म्हणाले...

I still want to know why Biden's lawyers went on a "classified papers" search when they did?
---

My theory is that the DOJ knew about bidens documents and told the admin to turn them over. When he was asked about them, Biden admitted that he didn't know where the documents were, and so his lawyers were sent to find them in order to keep it all quiet.

ccscientist म्हणाले...

I fear that too many of these documents are classified as CYA by agencies.

Michael K म्हणाले...

The other great reason for rampant classification is that it is the chief means by which the government and its agencies and officials hide institutional and individual failures, lies, malfeasance, corruption, and criminality.<

One of the few times I agree with Cook. I have previously posts a link to Moynihan's book about overclassification. More true now than when it was written.

Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...

Something the media and Democrat operatives elide in every discussion of these two men is that Trump has clearly articulated his reason for keeping the documents and cited (through his lawyer) prior SCOTUS rulings on Bill Clinton's dispute with the national archives to justify his authority to retain those documents. And they were under (FBI-specified) lock and key guarded by Secret Service 24/7/365 within a gated and guarded community.

Biden has not AND WILL NOT publicly state the reason(s) and justoification(s) for the documents he retained from the Obama admin. He cannot cite any authority for possessing them legally. He left them where a literally unknown number of people had access for up to 50 years in some cases, including drug addicts and prostitutes and almost certainly foreign nationals.

Lastly, the archivist is staying studiously OUT OF the Biden matter unlike them triggering a phony gestapo FBI raid in the the Trump matter. A raid with no legal justification given Trump's complete cooperation with every FBI request. I guess all the Classical Liberals who feared the rise of the Gestapo really have died off. This kind of abuse of power is stunning to me for the very reason how UNREMARKABLE the actions of Garland's DOJ have been, that is unremarked on by our host here. Unless I missed it, which is always a possibility.

loudogblog म्हणाले...

I see that she is still on the "protect Biden" bandwagon. She obviously hasn't gotten the memo that they have shifted to the "throw Biden under the bus so he won't run in 2024" bandwagon.

n.n म्हणाले...

Trimester after regrets. #MeToo

Gospace म्हणाले...

RideSpaceMountain said...
'''
Talk to any intelligence specialist and they'll tell you that a great deal can be discerned from seemingly minute, seemingly unimportant information, and the sanitizers job is to catch that.

Just a thought.


There's a reason for the old saying "Loose lips sink ships." Connecting dots from open source documentation can reveal a lot of classified information. But you have to be good at dot connecting.

And gilbar said...
the real line between Trump’s case and Biden’s.

The real line: The President can unilaterally unclassify at will
VP's and Senators aren't allowed to take classified documents home with them. Let alone KEEP them


Exactly. There's no comparison between the cases. No foggy areas at all.

D.D. Driver म्हणाले...

The President can unilaterally unclassify at will

But former presidents cannot? And, is there any evidence that Trump declassified the documents when he was president. I know a lot of Trumpies believe that Trump can long after the fact claim that "I declassified everything in my mind," but that's why we write these things down? Even something like having some proof that he crossed-out the classification designation and initialed it while he was president would (for me) be 100% adequate.

Any president can say "oh yeah, I declassified those documents but didn't tell anyone about it. Are the Trumpies going to accept it if Obama comes forth and says: "The documents that Joe had in his garage were secretly declassified by me, then-President Barack H. Obama, back in 2014 but I never told anyone about it?" I highly doubt it.

Stan Smith म्हणाले...

"Classification's sins include stupidly classifying public information as controlled secrets when combined. A is not classified. B is not classified. C is not classified. Combine A + B + C and it's classified"

This is not necessarily stupid. One can often discern what is being built (a secret satellite, for instance) by what is being purchased by a contractor to build it. The items themselves, individually, don't indicated anything. But put together, they indicate the kind of part or system that might be constructed. That's why they're protected as a combination.

Lurker21 म्हणाले...

Whoever here said that we can't say who is worse until we know what's in the papers was right. If Trump kept Russiagate files that he had already declassified and Biden kept documents useful to foreign powers, then clearly Biden would be worse. "Trump was worse" is like "without evidence." The media keep repeating it like they keep saying "without evidence" and they also have no evidence for their assertion.

Owen म्हणाले...

Heroic damage control efforts by Sorkin and New Yorker.

Quaestor म्हणाले...

"They are not the same, and that is something worth emphasizing."

Quite right. In the midst of rhetorical contortions intended to absolve Biden, Amy Davidson Sorkin blunders into a truth. The case against Biden is different in that it is now unequivocally criminal. The President can declassify any secret, and the existing applicable laws are so broad that "psychically" is not excluded. A President can declassify a classified document and not tell anyone, but himself. The President reports to no one in this declassification matter, just himself.

Vice-Presidents, however, have no such authority. Therefore, Biden's procession of secret documents dating from his term as Lord Zero's flunkey can only be non-criminal if Barack Obama has "psychically" declassified them. The real question and the only question that if answered favorably can save Joe from prosecution, by that I mean just prosecution, a rare commodity these days, can former President Obama declassify the documents Biden illegally removed from Congressional custody when he was a senator and Barack was a private citizen?

Ambrose म्हणाले...

Make the enemy play by its own rules.

Mr Wibble म्हणाले...

Are the Trumpies going to accept it if Obama comes forth and says: "The documents that Joe had in his garage were secretly declassified by me, then-President Barack H. Obama, back in 2014 but I never told anyone about it?" I highly doubt it
-----

If Obama wants to sign a sworn statement that he ordered the docs declassified, I absolutely would be fine with it. It doesn't absolve Biden of the docs from his time as Senator.

dwshelf म्हणाले...

Why can't any analysis point out the obvious? High level politicians have been taking this stuff home for decades, and no one did anything about it.

Until Trump.

Mr Wibble म्हणाले...

Also, if Obama wants to swear that he declassified those docents for Joe, then there should be no issue with releasing them to the public immediately.

Mike of Snoqualmie म्हणाले...

I had a TS/SAP (special access program) clearance. We were told to correctly classify, neither too high nor too low. Too high results in too many documents (usually just electronic) which must be tracked. Too low, and important information is spilled to the adversary.

Biden's classified documents resided in a classified space with an administrator who had to audit all paper copies once a year. That administrator should have raised an alarm when those documents could not be found at the conclusion of the audit. Why weren't everyone who had access interrogated?

Each classified project has a classification guide to tell those cleared for the project what's classified and what's not and what terms to use. These guides can change as the project proceeds. What's classified in year 1 of the project may become unclassified in year 3 because of the needs of the project.

People cleared must abide by the class-guide. To fail to do so can result in prosecution and fines, loss of clearance for both the person and the company and possible termination of the company's contract.

Hillary Clinton ignored all rules on protecting classified information. She was required to understand the class-guides and abide by them. She deliberately spilled classified information because it was just more convenient for her use of her unapproved email server. She should have been prosecuted for at least gross negligence. Her home should be Ft. Leavenworth, KS, not NY.

Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...

Wibble did a fine job but I'd like to pile on D Driver for his false equivalence.

Any president can say "oh yeah, I declassified those documents but didn't tell anyone about it. Are the Trumpies going to accept it if Obama comes forth and says: "The documents that Joe had in his garage were secretly declassified by me, then-President Barack H. Obama, back in 2014 but I never told anyone about it?" I highly doubt it.

He did say so and he said it as president when he declared, "I am ordering the declassification of the Russia Collusion documents." If you rely on DNC_Media for your talking points you missed it. As noted by others above, the process of removing classification marks was a bureaucratic slow-walk to purposely dissuade Trump. He did not accept that and packed the docs for Florida.

The fact none of is calling for Obama's prosecution right now puts the lie to your baseless assertion. Obama is in possession right now of classified docs wanted by the Archivist. Like Clinton he is defying their requests because it is vested in Presidential powers to determine what they TAKE WITH THEM. Maybe you forget all the furniture and other tjhings the Clinton team made of with in addition to archives. But nonetheless, we have principles on our side so when we say "it's the Predident's power" we mean ALL presidents, not just the ones in our party, not just the ones we liked. If he vouches for his VP fine. But Wibble noticed something up above at 2:41 that you might want to consider: Pre-Obama era docs that Senators are NOT allowed to possess outside a SCIF.

That's the biggest fucking difference in this whole affair!

n.n म्हणाले...

So, what Sorkin is proposing, is a an equal and inclusive FBI to raid and gather classified documents wherever there is probable... nay, plausible (e.g. politically congruent) cause h/t George "fentanyl" Floyd apologists. It's Wilson, it's Palmerism, all over again.

Michael K म्हणाले...

The Dopey Driver says:

Blogger D.D. Driver said...

The President can unilaterally unclassify at will

But former presidents cannot? And, is there any evidence that Trump declassified the documents when he was president.


Yes, he said so at the time. The Deep State resisted but he, not they, has the power to do so.

Richard Aubrey म्हणाले...

Was custodian of classified documents back in the day. Never found out what they were, since I had other stuff to do. In fact, I never was sure I was cleared to read them. Kept them locked in a vault with a sharp E4--iirc--not letting people in.
Couple of field grades--when I queried them about what they might need--said they already knew everything the needed to know.
They didn't say, although I got the impression, that they didn't expect to find something they needed in our supply.
Kicking around the subject after I got out, couple of guys who'd also been Army opined it was keeping the Russians from knowing what we knew or didn't, which might allow them to spend some resources in blind alleys, and weapon capabilities, which my acquaintances opined everybody already knew. But...didn't want to confirm it.

Then there's the weather report: "Fighting is light to medium in Nine Corps" CLASSIFIED as if the guys we were fighting were clueless as to the fact.

Point is, from the outside, and from a lot of the inside, the whole thing is clear as mud.

paminwi म्हणाले...

This is how it works.
Them: Knock, knock knock.
Me: Who is it?
Them: The police! We’ve heard you may have some illegal drugs in your house!
Me: Come on in and look around.
Them: We are going to look everywhere. In your garage, in your office, every room of your house.
Them: My! My! We found lots and lots of drugs. You are arrested.
Me: But I invited you in. I thought if I invited you in, if you found things I wasn’t supposed to have it’s no big deal!
Them: What kind of stupid lawyer told you that?
Me: It wasn’t a lawyer! It was the media!

Jaq म्हणाले...

So this FBI agent who has been busted for enabling Russian sanction evasion was also mixed up with Hunter Biden...

https://twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1617641483863232514

Jaq म्हणाले...

after Hunter received $1MM to aid Patrick Ho of CEFC. They ask whether McGonigal was one of FBI agents Hunter had talked to. In fall 2017, McGonigal got $255,000 in cash from Albanians.

LOL. Remember that Hunter had access to all of these documents.

takirks म्हणाले...

The real travesty here is that Biden sits atop a system that has punished people with draconian glee for far less egregious violations of classified document rules. Just like with the Clintons, or the whole OPM fiasco, if some lowly nobody got caught doing things that weren't even in the same ballpark, their careers were ruined and some wound up in jail.

I have personal knowledge of multiple cases. As a Security Manager, I even initiated some of them. At the time they occurred, I thought I was doing the right thing, upholding standards and the system. Now? I'm having some regrets. Maybe I should have looked the other way... Surely, whatever documents we had access to in the run up to Iraq in 2003 couldn't have been all that important, compared to whatever they were apparently handing out to senators at the Congressional SCIF.

You can't keep a system like this going. All over the place, people like me are looking at the rules, looking up at the monitors where all this is playing out on the news networks, and they're going "Why the hell should I ruin Bob's career over something he forgot to secure, and left on his desk...?"

They obviously think that proving that there's a two-tier justice system for this crap won't have any effects. I rather doubt that proposition. I think it's going to play out in unexpected ways. I mean, what's good for the Senator, Vice President, or President ought to be good for the Major or the Lieutenant, right? Hell, if they're gonna hand out free passes to the politicians for security violations, why shouldn't I grab some for my guys...?

I'd also love to know just what the hell Biden was doing with those documents. I can't think of a single policy reason he should require them outside of the SCIF. My only guess is that he was monetizing them.

They find proof of that? LOL... Not like we'd ever see it, but if they do and it comes out? Bang, zoom... There goes a generation of Democratic Party lies.

RideSpaceMountain म्हणाले...

For those that are interested in seeing a real world example of overclassification, I highly encourage you to look up all 4 parts of the 4-part series - available on Youtube - of the Operation Hardtack nuclear test series that took place at the Pacific Proving Grounds and Nevada Test Site circa 1957-58.

This is all available online; megaton yields, military effects, high altitude detonations, and sub-kiloton yields and effects. You will find them all, all except a version with sound for Part IV of the series concerning sub-kiloton/low-yield fission/high-radiation weapons. Go ahead. I dare you.

The reason for this is that Part IV of the series contains some nuggets of still highly relevant CNWDI and effects information, and when the video was sanitized the reviewers just said screw it, remove the whole audio track. This remains the case, despite the pile of video footage recently released by the LLNL just a couple of years ago.

Almost 23-24 minutes of audio gone for what is probably less than 60 seconds worth of sensitive information. That's how it works.

D.D. Driver म्हणाले...

"A President can declassify a classified document and not tell anyone, but himself. The President reports to no one in this declassification matter, just himself."

So if I file a FOIA request to see these documents how does anyone know that they've been declassified?

Interested Bystander म्हणाले...

The author claims Biden only had a handful and Trump had hundreds of docs. We don’t have any idea what Biden had or didn’t have. We only know what his lawyers are telling the Democratic Media. The article is BS from the start. Besides Trump declassified the docs he had and was negotiating their return when he was raided. Biden had some docs apparently since he was a senator. How long? 10-12-15 years? Most likely stuff that would incriminate him in his money laundering business.

Mr Wibble म्हणाले...

I'd also love to know just what the hell Biden was doing with those documents. I can't think of a single policy reason he should require them outside of the SCIF. My only guess is that he was monetizing them.

Honestly, I doubt it. I think it was ego: he wanted to have those documents because, damn it, he's important enough that he should be able to read those documents at home, not in some SCIF. Don't discount the thrill of getting one over on the bureaucrats as well.

minnesota farm guy म्हणाले...

Not big news. There have always been problems with classification. The simple urge to enhance one's importance by indicating his/her correspondence is so important it should be classified is one problem; another is lack of supervision of classification guidelines; and probably there is a small percentage that is classified because the sender really doesn't anyone to read the thing because it might lead to embarrassment.

Lucien म्हणाले...

As someone said in “Yes, Minister”, the Official Secrets Act exists to protect officials, not secrets.

Mr. Majestyk म्हणाले...

Biden claims he takes classified documents seriously. You know why I don't believe him?
He didn't give me his word as a Biden.

D.D. Driver म्हणाले...

BTW-everyone tried for espionage should try the "Trump declassified all this stuff in his brain and didn't tell anyone about it" defense. You get the right 12 morons on the jury and you might have reasonable doubt.

Saint Croix म्हणाले...

the government’s documents system has an overclassification addiction

The biggest fucking atrocities in the history of the human race happen because authorities mess up their classifications.

People with black skin are not people.

Jews are not people.

Unborn babies are not people.

If I could give one warning to anybody in the fucking government...

If you don't know what a "person" is

quit your fucking job and do something else.

(I realize people in the government have other serious problems, like being overly secretive and paranoid. But those are relatively minor problems compared to your fucked up sense of classification).

And while I've been railing at the Supreme Court for a good couple of decades now

It's worth noting that not one single fucking "pro-life Republican" on the Judiciary committee ever asked any judicial nominee in the history of my life whether they know what a person is.

Pro-life, my ass.

I don't give a shit if Donald Trump is sloppy with documents or is not sloppy with documents. Did any of you fuckers ever show up at the Walk of Life? You apple-polishing, A+ students with the best resumes from the Ivy League, what did you fucking do to stop the killing of a single unborn child?

Did you do anything?

How is it that the former professional wrestler manages to make an appearance at the Walk of Life? Even if he's a cartoon character and not-serious-at-all, showing up is a big deal. It means that he hears the voters and is paying attention to voters. Categorize that, motherfuckers.

cfs म्हणाले...

Well, one thing about adhering to current classification and security rules, is that information that appears to be lifted from a security briefing doesn't appear in an email from a former senator/former Vice-President/Current President's son to a business colleague.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/01/did_hunter_use_classified_documents_as_part_of_his_ukraine_business_dealings.html

The way the usual lefties are insisting that Biden did nothing wrong, the documents were old (how old were they when they were installed in the garage/office/living room/ etc.?), and Biden is cooperating (although they keep finding documents), makes me suspect that something major is going on and whatever the outcome, it is not going to be good for our nation. The second part of their refrain is, as usual, "the walls are closing in on Trump".

madAsHell म्हणाले...

Some twit with a barrel of ink that doesn't know crap about classification systems, but believes they treat Joe Biden unfairly.

Tarrou म्हणाले...

This would have been a brave article a couple months ago. Now it's just ass-covering from the corporate press, and pretty lame stuff at that.

ken in tx म्हणाले...

Trump, and anyone else, as president, not only had the right to declassify anything he wanted, he had the right to waive the process anyone else had to go through to do the same. So, effectively, he DID have the ability to 'psychicly' declassify documents.

Greg the Class Traitor म्हणाले...

Presidents do not have the power to declassify documents psychically, as Trump has suggested

Bullshit

President Trump waves his hands at a box, and says "I hereby declassify every single document in that box"

Every single document in that box is now declassified.

I don't know what delusional straw man this Sorkin moron is beating up, but that's the legal reality, and that's why there will never be a successful prosecution of Trump for classified document mishandling.

Because unless you can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Trump didn't do that while President, he's clearly not guilty.

iowan2 म्हणाले...

D.D. Driver said...

"A President can declassify a classified document and not tell anyone, but himself. The President reports to no one in this declassification matter, just himself."

So if I file a FOIA request to see these documents how does anyone know that they've been declassified?


You can't be this obtuse.

You have to work this from the other end.
WHO? What person, agency, officer, official, has the power to Challenge DJT assertion, all the documents in his possession are declassified?

The common, and wrong, claim the leftists repeat," "there has to be written protocol or it never happened"

But that is not the question. Who has the power to overrule the Presidents assertion?

Classification is a proccess wholly invented and managed from the White House. The President of the United States invented and controls the classification process, with no bleeding over into either of the the other two Constitutional branches

Until you identify the power to overturn the President, you have no argument

A large chuck of the PRA has been defined by judicial rulings to be exactly the same. The President of he United States has final say as to what is, and what is not covered by PRA.

Garlands warrant to physically remove documents from a Past President, is a very dangerous precedent. Trump has all of the law on his side when he goes to court to demand his property back.

iowan2 म्हणाले...

So if I file a FOIA request to see these documents how does anyone know that they've been declassified?

You have to to make a request for a specific document. Agencies refuse FOIA requests all the time, and classification is not always the reason given.

What has happened to President Trump, he declassified information and sent a request to the controlling agency for a clean copy. The agency heavily redacted the document, and sent it to the President. The President responded, he demands a clean document. Then a negotiation took place and Trump agreed to some redactions. But the responding agency slow walked it, until after Jan 21, 2021. So the President took the unredacted copy he already had.

The best guess, informs us the President has written correspondence requesting declassification of everything he has in his possesion.

He doesn't need the proof, but existing public information tracks how this played out.

D.D. Driver म्हणाले...

Who has the power to overrule the Presidents assertion?

Seriously?!

SCOTUS. I guess we'll see whether secret executive orders that are not written down carry the force of law. Good luck with that argument, sparky!

takirks म्हणाले...

This capability of the Presidency? Does it work the other way, as well? Is that a legally-defensible position?

In other words, can a President post-date classification, rendering something another President declassified as re-classified?

This appears to have been at least a part of the legal theories put forth in the case against Trump, in that what he declared declassified was then held to be classified by the Biden outfit.

So, does it run that way? If you carry that idea out to the logical extension, then it might be possible to charge a former President (or for that matter, anyone else) with violations of the classified document laws simply by declaring that something they had was classified. Like, oh, say... Anything they might have written.

I vaguely recall that they "got" someone, once upon a time, by declaring their work classified after it was published in some scientific journal. Wasn't classified when he wrote it, but the government said, after the fact, that it was classified, confiscated all the copies, and put him up on charges for violating the secrecy laws. This was an example used during my Security Manager training, and I'll be damned if I can work up a set of search terms to find the actual case. I want to say it was either during the Manhattan Project or during the whole Oppenheimer hydrogen bomb development fiasco.

I have a feeling that we're going to see this line of legalism worked out in public, over the next few years. Gonna be... Interesting.