"This is a challenge for everyone. Such a complete denial of man, the overthrow of faith and traditional values, the suppression of freedom acquiring the features of a 'reverse religion' – outright Satanism. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ, denouncing the false prophets, says: By their fruits you shall know them. And these poisonous fruits are already obvious to people – not only in our country, in all countries, including many people in the West itself...."
Said Vladimir Putin, in his speech at the "annexation ceremony." I'm reading the full transcript, here.
All over the world, including in Europe and the United States, as I said, we have many like-minded people, and we feel, we see their support. A liberation, anti-colonial movement against unipolar hegemony is already developing within the most diverse countries and societies....
The collapse of Western hegemony that has begun is irreversible. And I repeat again: it will not be the same as before. The battlefield to which fate and history have called us is the battlefield for our people, for great historical Russia.... Today we are fighting so that it would never occur to anyone that Russia, our people, our language, our culture can be taken and erased from history....
Our values are humanity, mercy and compassion. And I want to end my speech with the words of a true patriot Ivan Alexandrovich Ilyin: "If I consider Russia my Motherland, then this means that I love in Russian, contemplate and think, sing and speak Russian; that I believe in the spiritual strength of the Russian people. His spirit is my spirit; his fate is my fate; his suffering is my grief; its flowering is my joy."...
Here's the Wikipedia page for Ivan Alexandrovich Ilyin, who "was a Russian religious and political philosopher, jurist, Menshevik and monarchist, who supported the right-wing of the Kadet party":
In exile, Ivan Ilyin argued that Russia should not be judged by what he called the Communist danger it represented at that time but looked forward to a future in which it would liberate itself with the help of Christian fascism....
[T]he conflict between people and state, and the hostility towards private property... led to egalitarianism and to revolution. The alternative way of Russia according to Ilyin was to develop due "consciousness of law" of an individual based on morality and religiousness....
Ilyin was a monarchist....
His 1928 article 'On Russian Fascism' is about the fascist "method" of dealing with the Bolshevik plague.
Fascism emerged as a reaction to Bolshevism, as a concentration of state-protective forces on the right. During the onset of leftist chaos and leftist totalitarianism, this was a healthy, necessary and inevitable phenomenon. This concentration will continue, even in the most democratic states: in the hour of national danger, the healthy forces of the people will always concentrate in the direction of security and dictatorship. So it was in ancient Rome, so it was in new Europe, and so it will continue to be....
Ilyin initially saw Adolf Hitler as a defender of civilization from Bolshevism and approved of the way Hitler had, in his view, derived his anti-communism and antisemitism from the ideology of the Russian Whites. Ilyin looked on Mussolini and Hitler as exemplary leaders who were saving Europe by dissolving democracy.
He wrote: "The greatest mistake of fascism was the revival of idolatrous Caesarism. 'Caesarism' is the exact opposite of monarchism...."
Ilyin has been quoted by Russian President Vladimir Putin in his speeches in 2005, 2006, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2022. He is considered by some observers to be a major ideological inspiration for Putin. Putin and Viktor Vekselberg were involved in moving Ilyin's remains back to Russia, and in 2009 consecrated his grave.
पोस्ट्स
६९ टिप्पण्या:
Shorter Putin: Rubber, glue.
Putin, as misguided as he is, is a Russian patriot. Nobody in Washington is a US Patriot. That's what the Biden speeches are about. Ukraine has been an ATM for US politicians. Now, huge amounts of US money is going to Ukraine, minus of course the "Big Guy's" share.
"By their fruits you shall know them. And these poisonous fruits are already obvious to people..."
Actually not really. A lot of these poisonous fruits are chopping their dicks off and wearing dresses now. Very hard to spot. Try looking for Adams apples and an odd fixation with minors. That's what I do.
Remember folks ... it's the Democrat Party that prompted the coming nuclear attack. Once it's over, and we're picking up the pieces, make sure you remember who started this war. It will be time to make sure not a single one of them makes it out alive.
Putin is an astute observer of the corruption of the west. Nonetheless attacking a neighboring country and in the process killing 50,000 of his own people is inexcusable stupidity. Putin is living proof that sometimes your enemy’s enemy is still your enemy. To the extent I and many others agree with his critique of the sickness of the west, he has done nothing but harm to that caused by his vicious and destructive behavior.
There's a lot of difference between Mr. Putin and Mr. Hitler. For example, Mr. Hitler never bothered with annexation ceremonies. That said we should be wary of anti-fascist crusaders because fascists can always be found, existence being no obstacle.
Putin should allow Chechnya to conduct a referendum to vote whether to stay in Russia.
Communism and socialism are death.
All you need to know.
“Our values are humanity, mercy and compassion. And I want to end my speech with the words of a true patriot Ivan Alexandrovich Ilyin: "If I consider Russia my Motherland, then this means that I love in Russian, contemplate and think, sing and speak Russian; that I believe in the spiritual strength of the Russian people. His spirit is my spirit; his fate is my fate; his suffering is my grief; its flowering is my joy."... “
Ok then have all the oligarchs sell controlling stock to the public at prices they can afford.
Whenever I hear a politician go on about his people's special historic soulful mission to the world, I reach for my revolver.
From our perspective here in America, it's better that all the international borders remain fixed forever.
However, from the perspective of a Russian living in one of those Russian-majority regions of Ukraine, changing some borders is a good idea.
The Russians in those Ukrainian regions voted overwhelmingly for Viktor Yanukovych in Ukraine's 2010 election, and he won fairly (according to the European Union). However, in 2014, Ukrainian zealots in Kiev compelled Yanukovych to flee his elected position and to flee Ukraine.
Is living in that Ukrainian "democracy" better than re-drawing the border?
Sometimes borders are re-drawn. It's not the end of the world.
The United Nations should deal with such situations. In some places, the United Nations should conduct referendums. If the relevant populations votes by a super-majority -- say, 2/3 or 3/4 -- then the United Nations should re-draw the border.
Putin should have conducted a diplomatic campaign to bring about such a United Nations solution of its border dispute. Part of the reason why Putin did not do so was that he feared that NATO might incorporate Ukraine soon.
I condemn Russia's military invasion of Ukraine absolutely.
I also think that the USA should try to establish a United Nations solution to such border disputes.
Half of America worships false prophets. Western Europe does too. To challenge these modern soothsayers is heresy punishable by societal excommunication. For some even prosecution and prison time.
The biggest example in this new Godless, totalitarian American era is “Doctor” Anthony Fauci. He’s #1 by far. Almost as infallible as the Pope Francis, who, by the way, is also a false prophet.
Justin Trudeau…false prophet. Nancy Pelosi…false prophet. Greta Thunberg…false prophet.
America no longer holds the moral high ground it perhaps did after its WWII victory. We are now fulfilling our destiny as the Whore of Babylon described in Revelation.
To recognize this doesn’t make you a “Putin Butt Boy”….it just means you have enough self-awareness to realize we are ALSO not the good guys.
The democratic/dictatorial duality.
That said, Serbia/Kosovo, South Africa, Slavic Spring etc.
Ilyin sounds like the Russian students arguing in taverns in Dostoevsky novels.
Micheal, giving huge amounts of money to the Ukrainians is very patriotic. They're going to use that money to kill tons of Russians. Killing tons of Russians has been rated as 100% patriotic pretty much since '50s. I know we used to call them Commies before but labels change and I'm ok with that. Anywhoo, regarding your characterization of Putin as a patriot, would that then also apply to Hitler? Didn't he really want great things for his nation also? Or when we talk of patriots, do we talk of sacrifice? Or best outcomes? Semantics, amirite?
Putin's words are those of Alexander Dugin, his mentor, his spiritual and philosophical leader. This is Dugin's vision for Russia. And Putin's. And many others.
There is no question that some of what they say sounds good if you pull it apart and separate the pieces, good from bad. But you cannot. Every leader- good and bad- can mix a few good thoughts into a lot of bad shit, or even downright evil. We have to take the whole of what he is, what he's done, along with what he's saying.
Putin is a hair-trigger that we do not fully understand here. And by 'we' I mean our leaders in DC, who think they are still fighting Trump and people who don't agree that the 2020 election was the most secure in history. We are in a potentially great and dangerous time, and it's like we're sleep-walking into it.
Well, the quote in the title isn't really wrong, but ol' Shitstain Putin isn't the guy to fix the problem.
So now we have a possible new philosophical inspiration for Putin. Whatever happened to the supposedly powerful theory of Eurasian
Bolshevism and the Pan-Slavic theories of Aleksandr Dugin? Sixth months ago he allegedly was Putin’s intellectual mentor. What if Putin
concocted his theories from his own fevered brain and paranoid fantasies?
"Putin is a hair-trigger that we do not fully understand here."
Do you think it's a good idea to initiate a proxy war against such a madman, given that Russia has thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at the United States?
Or would that be stupid?
Putin is another Russian leader under the influence of an orthodox religious nut case. This is a recurrent problem with authoritarian governments. Kings, Tsars, Mao, Stalin, Xi, etc.
Mike Sylwester: "Putin should allow Chechnya to conduct a referendum to vote whether to stay in Russia."
I am reminded of the old Soviet maxim: What's ours is ours and what's yours is negotiable.
I don't want to agree with Putin but frankly he's not wrong when he describes the ideology of the Western elites. Western elites are exporting the acidic poison with which they are trying to destroy their own societies. And some nations are waking up to this. Look at Hungary, Sweden (maybe), and now Italy. I largely agree with James Lindsay and Rod Dreher.
As North commented above, Putin isn't wrong but neither is he the solution.
"Putin, as misguided as he is, is a Russian patriot. Nobody in Washington is a US Patriot."
Truer words were never spoken. I thought Putin made a great speech, but then he has more truth on his side than his enemies. He quite rightly, declares that all the American cant about "spreading Democracy" is just another word for American hegamony. His statement that the US Elite want to turn Russia into a Western colony is also correct. Wasn't the the WaPo publishing articles about how Russia could be broken up into smaller pieces after Putin is overthrown?
At its root, this whole unneccessary war and conflict is due to USA wanting to dominate the world and tell everyone how they should live. And their desire to play at war and be the World's nanny and policeman. WW II and the Coldwar could be justified as defending America against "evil Empires". There's been no such justification for our meddling around the world for the last 30 years.
Americans seem to get high on war and conflict. Good God, you had Mitt Romney (who doesn't give a damn about millions of foreigers walking accross our border), crying and weeping about our "Noble Allies" the Kurds. And Joe Biden, willing to risk Nuclear war over the Donbas (which he can't find on a map), doing the same.
Good God, what a country.
All world leaders are in a race to dishonor and disgrace themselves and their regimes. Right now, Putin is in the lead, but it's hard to view him as the focus of all evil in the world, when there is so much lying bullshit going around.
It should be noted that the Ukrainian Secret service (no doubt with the approval of the CIA) killed the daughter of Russian philospher/historian. Forturnately, for Mr. Ilyin family, he's been dead since 1953.
I'll read up on the guy. Wikipedia, says he was imprisoned six times by the Commmunist secret police, and ulimately thrown out of the USSR. Others weren't so lucky and were tortured and executed on Lenin's orders. I wonder if his being a Communist (Menshevik) allowed him to go into exile.
It's amazing how little coverage Putin's speech has garnered here in the US. It is becoming a little clearer now that this is not simply the invasion of a small neighboring country, but an attack on the West, which Putin correctly assumes is both weak and overconfident in its self-importance. The Putins of the world become emboldened when you're governed by imbeciles that cannot form sentences, remain reasonably focused, protect their own borders from a casual third world invasion, or get their mind off sexual and racial matters.
Putin mixes Russia focused Christian nationalism into his kettle of boiling ideas. His vision for Russia and Europe is as dangerous as it gets. We here in the US also have a Christian nationalism problem.
He Has a 7-Point Plan for a Christian Takeover — and Wants Doug Mastriano to Lead the Charge
“Jesus was promised nations for His inheritance,” says Lance Wallnau, a self-described Christian Nationalist prophet, “not just churches!”
Just as some North Americans are explicitly claiming the label of “Christian nationalism,” the ideology is advancing around the world.
The ongoing near merger of the Russian Orthodox Church with Vladimir Putin’s authoritarian government made headlines when the church’s patriarch declared that dying in Ukraine as part of Putin’s invading army “washes away all sins.” At the same time, yet another populist leader employing Christian nationalist rhetoric won an electoral victory in Italy.
With these in mind, perhaps the world’s evangelical Christians should remind ourselves that Christian nationalism can’t—and won’t—save the world.
Satan appeared to Jesus and proposed “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
Predictions from the World Economic Forum’s mastermind about life in 2030 - "You’ll own nothing and be happy about It."
Apparently, "own nothing" means you are going to be provided with everything you need, so that you won't need to own anything.
So ironic that Putin (a person with power) is the only one willing to stand up to... communism.
So, how many useful idiots will say "that Putin is on our side"?
News flash: Putin is a KGB thug. He's only complaining about a "dictatorship of Western elites" because he's pissed they're taking over his desired gig
"However, in 2014, Ukrainian zealots in Kiev compelled Yanukovych to flee his elected position and to flee Ukraine."
You neglected to mention that those zealots who conducted an armed insurrection against a democratically-elected government were organized and funded by the United States.
During the Cold War, it made sense for the US to oppose what the Soviet Union supported. At least, it seemed to me at the time that it did. But at this point, the settled enmity of "our" government against Russia is without justification. Americans have more, and worse, enemies in Washington DC than in Moscow.
Russia Collusion Truther and Hillary/FBI Hoax Dossier Dead Ender Inga would like to distract you from the fact that her team is lopping off breasts and penises of children, demanding abortion on demand at any point of pregnancy for any reason while continuing their CRT/marxist indoctrination and grooming of school children...
...while collapsing the US economy.
Spoiler: It ain't gonna work Inga.
Inga should spend more time reading books like these:
Unveiled: How Western Liberals Empower Radical Islam
https://www.amazon.com/Unveiled-Western-Liberals-Empower-Radical/dp/1999240502
But she wont because todays New Soviet Democraticals are in full alliance with the islamic supremacists and share their goals.
Anywhoo, regarding your characterization of Putin as a patriot, would that then also apply to Hitler? Didn't he really want great things for his nation also? Or when we talk of patriots, do we talk of sacrifice? Or best outcomes? Semantics, amirite?
Early on, Hitler might fill that role except that he was an Austrian. He wanted Germany to take over his own country, sort of like the Biden regime wants globalization to take over the USA. Your argument has that fatal weakness. MAGA was not about anyone else. Biden is all about China. For example.
Socialist governments in Latin America, along with China, wanted to topple the American president of the Inter-American Development Bank, Mauricio Claver-Carone. But the U.S. owns 30% of the bank and the anti-American left in the region needed the Biden Treasury’s help.
They got it on Thursday, when Treasury’s representative on the IDB’s executive board of directors, Fabiana Jorge, led a vote in favor of Mr. Claver-Carone’s dismissal.
Inga gets her best ideas from "Rolling Stone" home of the famous "Rolling Stone" UVA rape story.
It's not so much that Putin as wrong as that he is not in a position to make the point he's making. Putin is too much a part of the problem for him to simply hold himself out as the solution.
It's amazing how little coverage Putin's speech has garnered here in the US. It is becoming a little clearer now that this is not simply the invasion of a small neighboring country, but an attack on the West,
Historically, this is the norm in Russian politics, as is a reliance on support from the Orthodox church. This speech is mostly Tsar Putin being Tsar Putin. It is primarily aimed at domestic politics and trying to build support among the Russian people.
The West is smouldering. Putin pours gas.
rcocean said...
"It should be noted that the Ukrainian Secret service (no doubt with the approval of the CIA) killed the daughter of Russian philospher/historian. Forturnately, for Mr. Ilyin family, he's been dead since 1953."
**************
Listen up, rcocean: if you have supporting facts, produce them. None of this gratuitous "no doubt" bullshit.
Your reference to Ilyin is misplaced. The assassinated woman, Darya Dugina, was the daughter of Alexandr Dugin, who is very much alive.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/26/darya-dugina-aleksandr-dugin-russia-putin-propaganda-ukraine-war/
Ilyin died in 1954, not 1953. Dugin's daughter was 39 when she was killed.
Do the fucking math.
Nor have you offered any hard evidence that the Ukraine was involved. Unsupported Russian accusations are not enough.
And yeah, the Ukrainian Security Services always consult with the CIA before killing Russians. Everybody knows that. So..."no doubt".
SNORT
You miserable flake.
"protect their own borders from a casual third world invasion"
Biden can protect our borders. He's chosen NOT to. He could, but he won't.
Why? Well, both he and Nancy Pelosi have said over the last few days that these people are needed to pick our cotton.
You know, since Democrats can't use black people for that any longer.
"protect their own borders from a casual third world invasion"
Biden can protect our borders. He's chosen NOT to. He could, but he won't.
Why? Well, both he and Nancy Pelosi have said over the last few days that these people are needed to pick our cotton.
You know, since Democrats can't use black people for that any longer.
Short version:
"Look at it this way."
Greg The Class Traitor: "So, how many useful idiots will say "that Putin is on our side"?"
That is such a dumb take on this discussion you might as well subscribe to the Bulwark or the Lincoln Project.
Hey, if Putin says 2+2=4 should I reject that as well?
We'll just add criticism of western "elites" to criticism of NATO "allies" that refuse to fulfill their military obligations as topics for which Greg will label you a Putin apologist.
If I have to live under a brutal dictatorship that suppresses freedom of speech and rigs elections, I think I'd rather Putin was running it than the goddamned Democratic Party. Because, let's face it, is he wrong? Liberal democracy is all but dead in the United States.
Putin is not a soldier, old pix in uniform notwithstanding. He came up through the KGB which is secret police, enforcers, and manipulators with serious training in all kinds of fields.
One is pushing somebody else's buttons while acting as if he believes, too.
And I want to end my speech with the words of a true patriot Ivan Alexandrovich Ilyin:
Some time ago, I read this article by Timothy Snyder on Ivan Ilyin. I knew I had heard that name before and when I googled him it all came back to me.
Back in grad-school in philosophy, I was discussing some aspect of Hegel's notion of God with my advisor and he said "Oh, you really need to read Ivan Ilyin's Die Philosophie Hegels Als Kontemplative Gotteslehre" Now, my advisor was fluent in German, and I most certainly am not, so I made some smart ass comment about how I'm sure it'll make for great beach reading.
My larger point other than remembering anecdotes is that Ilyin was a recognized scholar of Hegel, among other philosophers, in his day, and his work is often referenced by scholars in the field. He was not simply a political polemicist.
Now, how one gets an anti-western movement out of Hegel's philosophy of history beats me, since it really is all about, the emergence of the Spirit of Freedom in the post-Protestant Reformation West. Both Ilyin and Dugin (who bases his thought on Heidegger ---a posting for another day ---) seem to me to be on the Slavophile side of the great Westernizer vs Slavophile debate that animates so much of Russian history. I just don't see how one gets a Slavophile take on history out of Hegel.
@Inga,
The Orthodox Churches all all national churches. They have ALWAYS kissed the ass of the secular powers, including the Communists when the Communists finally stopped killing them and allowed them to kiss ass. It even led to a break, still not yet resolved, of the Russian Orthodox Church, Moscow Patriarchate, vs the https://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.
The jibe that the Roman Catholic Church always hurled against the Orthodox was that they considered being Emperor/Czar as the eighth sacrament. There are historically good reasons for such deference, e.g. many of the great ecumenical councils of the first thousand years of the Church were convened by the emperors (e.g. Nicea), but the Orthodox are really something else in Church history in terms of their deference.
No modern American Protestant Church has a history or an ecclesiology that could support the sort of deference to state power such as found in Eastern Orthodoxy. All of the Evangelical Protestant sects, not to mention the American experience of the Roman Catholic Church, were forged in opposition to state power, as they were often its victims.
In short, "Christian Nationalism", is, like the supposed ubiquity of White Supremacy, a figment of the Left's febrile imagination. A good rule of thumb is never, ever, trust the Left on religious topics, including Islam. They never get it right, mostly because they never actually pay attention to theology.
Anyone remember "The New Soviet Man". This man would be raised free from the corrupting influences of religion and capitalism. He would see the world with bold, clear eyes and be free of the superstitions of eons. Putin can be said to be the embodiment of the New Soviet Man. I don't think he attended any religious schools while in his youth or spent a lot of time wondering how to hustle a buck in some business enterprise during early adulthood. He's completely a product of a Soviet system that was openly hostile to religion and capitalism and that's where he attained his full growth. I would take his words about the bonds of religious faith with a grain of salt.....Hitler wasn't much for promoting religion. I guess Putin and Hitler have the nationalism thing in common, but it's a sick kind of nationalism. Hitler didn't appeal to Germans sense of pride so much as their sense of grievance. National pride is not the same thing as national grievance.....I don't know that much about the Ukraine, but I would think that they must be harboring a great many more grievances against the Russians than the Russians harbor against the West. Maybe more than Hitler even harbored against the Allies. Do the Ukrainains consider those terrible famines that blighted their nation a product of Communism or of Russia? I suspect they hold the Russians responsible.....I know that we're giving a lot of military aid to the Ukrainians, but they are willing to die while using that military equipment. In this they differe from the Afghans and Vietnamese that we also supported with military aid.
good lord, not this carp again, yes the Western schwab bloc from ardern in new zealand to world controller leyen have operated like a dictatorship,
what we've done to ourselves,
https://meaninginhistory.substack.com/p/the-fruits-of-western-civilizational
Konstantin Kisin translates
When JFK and RFK settled with Khrushchev to avoid nuclear conflict during the Cuban Missile crisis, peace was made by both parties pulling back from each others' borders. Russian missiles out of Cuba, American/NATO missiles out of Turkey.
Now, we're in the same situation. The border of NATO is now a United States border by default of NATO Article 5 combined with eastward NATO expansion. We border Western Russia now. Buffer zones have been eliminated, except for...Ukraine.
Frankly, I don't give a shit if the 3 or 4 regions of ethnic Russians go back to Russia to create a needed buffer zone. This is insane. And I don't give a shit where the natural gas flows, just let if flow...from everywhere to all over the fucking place. It's a great, needed resource for all of humanity.
The American government is more worried about the border of Ukraine than the borders of Texas and Arizona. Come on...gimmie break.
This situation is not analogous to WWII. NONE of the Axis or Allied powers had nuclear weapons at the start of the war.
Now, again, both sides got 'em. The stakes are higher.
When we were just busy carpet bombing the North Vietnamese and Iraqi's...the didn't have nukes. The US and NATO could conventionally bomb the un-uked enemy at will.
We were cocked, they were un-cocked. Now, everyone's cocked.
What would JFK and RFK do???
We in the US have a brewing Nazi Problem. Its Inga.
We in the US have a brewing Nazi Problem. Its Inga.
I wonder how many Mexicans would vote to be annexed by the USA?
Should we invade Mexico? After all, they are invading us.
I doubt the Mexican Army could to squat... but the Cartels.. that is another matter!
As for Putin, he is a desperate Godless Tyrant doing desperate godless things. No more, no less.
"News flash: Putin is a KGB thug. He's only complaining about a "dictatorship of Western elites" because he's pissed they're taking over his desired gig"
I coulda sworn John McCain was dead. Anyway, this sort of attitude is probably shared by Biden, pelosi, Schumer, and McConnell. If you can buy a fallout shelter, go for it.
He made a lot of sense to me and he is NOT wrong about what went on after russia fell. We have been encroaching upon them ever since. He is also not wrong that we have destroyed many countries in the mideast, literally destroyed them, killing and displacing millions upon millions of people. Libya, syria, egypt, iraq, afghanistan. We caused this Ukrainian conflict, we have caused worldwide inflation, food riots, people starving. Shutting down all oil exploration is causing untold destruction. But we don't give a shit, we are america.
And we really don't give a shit about what we did, we are america, we can kill and invade wantonly because we are the good guys.
Just like the democrat party thinks grooming children is perfectly fine because they think they are the good guys.
It is possible for an a-hole to be right once in awhile. Blind squirrel/acorn..
I always thought nationalism was like federalism but on an international scale.
When it serves his purpose, the Devil will quote scripture.
Even when the Devil is correct, he speaks in bad faith.
"Once it's over, and we're picking up the pieces, make sure you remember who started this war. It will be time to make sure not a single one of them makes it out alive."
Kill every last Marxist you can find.
"giving huge amounts of money to the Ukrainians is very patriotic"
70% of arms given to Ukraine wind up for sale on the black market. You're being played
Ukraine is a puppet nation laundering money for the Deep State. Thats our enemy, as well as Putin's. That doesn't mean we side with Putin.
But it's amazing how stupid the so called sophisticates are who blindly support Ukraine. It's never occurr e to them that BOTH Russia and Ukraine can be wrong. If Putin attacked Hitler they would find themselves cheering Nazis.
Hell, I don't even need to stretch the analogy that far, as we now know the Ukrainian soldiers captured at Maripuol we're separated based on Nazi Swastika tattoos covering their bodies.
"They're going to use that money to kill tons of Russians. Killing tons of Russians has been rated as 100% patriotic "
Please go back to playing Call of Duty. The Russian boys are no different than the Ukrainian boys who are no different than American boys. They answered the call to defend their nation's interests, which turned out to be whatever some corrupt politician decided.
As a former Marine I promise we don't cheer their deaths, because they are just like us, only slower and weaker, with less training. It's not a Hollywood movie, go fap off to something else.
Greatest speech of the century so far.
Mike Sylwester said...
However, from the perspective of a Russian living in one of those Russian-majority regions of Ukraine, changing some borders is a good idea.
And from the perspective of a criminal thug, getting rid of cash bail and just letting everyone out is an excellent idea.
The rest of us understand that it's a horrible idea.
The Russians in those Ukrainian regions voted overwhelmingly for Viktor Yanukovych in Ukraine's 2010 election, and he won fairly (according to the European Union). However, in 2014, Ukrainian zealots in Kiev compelled Yanukovych to flee his elected position and to flee Ukraine.
Jupiter said...
You neglected to mention that those zealots who conducted an armed insurrection against a democratically-elected government were organized and funded by the United States.
You guys are both pathetic and dishonest. Let's get some actual history, shall we?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
In Feb 2013, "[Verkhovna Rada, the Ukrainian] Parliament passes statement on Ukraine's aspirations for European integration". Kyiv Post. 22 February 2013. "A total of 315 of the 349 MPs registered in the sitting hall supported the document on Friday. The draft document reads that the Verkhovna Rada "within its powers, will ensure that the recommendations concerning the signing of the Association Agreement between Ukraine and the EU, which are stipulated in the resolutions of the European Parliament and the conclusions of the Council of the EU approved on December 10, 2012, at a meeting of the EU foreign ministers, will be fulfilled."
Apparently the voters who elected these 315 MPs just don't matter
In November 2013, a wave of large-scale protests (known as Euromaidan) erupted in response to President Yanukovych's sudden decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union.
Wow, that CIA is so powerful! They got to 70%+ of the Ukrainian Parliament, and hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, all to get them to conspire against poor old Vlad Putin.
In January and February 2014, clashes in Kyiv between protesters and Berkut special riot police resulted in the deaths of 108 protesters and 13 police officers,[20] and the wounding of many others. The first protesters were killed in fierce clashes with police on Hrushevskoho Street on 19–22 January. Following this, protesters occupied government buildings throughout the country. The deadliest clashes were on 18–20 February, which saw the most severe violence in Ukraine since it regained independence.[31] Thousands of protesters advanced towards parliament, led by activists with shields and helmets, and were fired on by police snipers.[20] On 21 February, an agreement between President Yanukovych and the leaders of the parliamentary opposition was signed that called for the formation of an interim unity government, constitutional reforms and early elections.[32] The following day, police withdrew from central Kyiv, which came under effective control of the protesters. Yanukovych fled the city.[33] That day, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office by 328 to 0 (72.8% of the parliament's 450 members).[
So, they sign a deal, Yanukovych decides he wants a different deal and bugs out, and it's all an "illegal coup" by people who have the bad taste to not want to be one of Vlad's slaves.
It really must suck to be you. How hard did you have to work to get yourself to pretend to believe the BS you're spouting?
tim maguire said...
It's not so much that Putin as wrong as that he is not in a position to make the point he's making
Gee, you mean it's hard to attack Trudeau's treatment of the truckers, while supporting Vlad, who's done far worse?
Yeah, that's one of many reasons why no sane person puts himself in line with Vlad
Drago said...
Greg The Class Traitor: "So, how many useful idiots will say "that Putin is on our side"?"
That is such a dumb take on this discussion you might as well subscribe to the Bulwark or the Lincoln Project.
Hey, if Putin says 2+2=4 should I reject that as well?
Are you really that stupid, or just willfully dishonest?
Did I attack anything that Putin said? No, I didn't.
I pointed out that :
1: He's a former KGB Colonel. he doesn't believe any of what he's saying, he's just saying it to get useful idiots (like Jupiter and Mike S, for example) to jump on "Putin's side" because he's saying things they like
And getting other useful idiots like Inga to attack the principles he's stating as "anyone who believes these is a Putin lackey".
When Putin says "2 + 2 = 4", I say "that's right, and Putin is still a vile and worthless scum bag who should be fought wherever he tries to obtain more power".
Because I'm NOT a moron
rcocean said...
Me: "News flash: Putin is a KGB thug. He's only complaining about a "dictatorship of Western elites" because he's pissed they're taking over his desired gig"
I coulda sworn John McCain was dead. Anyway, this sort of attitude is probably shared by Biden, pelosi, Schumer, and McConnell. If you can buy a fallout shelter, go for it.
And so a useful idiot self identifies. Thanks RC!
Need to emphasize the "idiot" part here, since he's claiming my attack on "Western elites" and their attempt at dictatorship over the rest of us, would be something coming from "McCain, Biden, pelosi, Schumer, and McConnell".
That's some industrial grade stupid there
Blogger Gusty Winds said...
When JFK and RFK settled with Khrushchev to avoid nuclear conflict during the Cuban Missile crisis, peace was made by both parties pulling back from each others' borders. Russian missiles out of Cuba, American/NATO missiles out of Turkey.
Bzzt.
The US didn't leave Turkey, or kick it out of NATO. Russia didn't leave Cuba.
But your proposed "solution" is that the US should not let Ukraine ally with us, which "solution" has NOTHING in common with the Cuban Missile Crisis solution
Frankly, I don't give a shit if the 3 or 4 regions of ethnic Russians go back to Russia to create a needed buffer zone.
There is no such thing as a "buffer zone" with Russia. Those territories become part of Russia, and then Russia "needs" a new "buffer"
This is insane
Yes, your position is insane.
And I don't give a shit where the natural gas flows
Then you're either a total ignoramus, or Putin's butt boy
IF the gas doesn't have to go through Ukraine to get to Western Europe, then Putin gets to use it as a weapon against Eastern Europe. If want to give Putin weapons to use against Eastern Europe, you are scum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
I found this part amusing:
According to Cathy Young, in the Antimaidan protests against the revolution, street posters, Internet posts, and even speeches at rallies attacked the new government as a "Jewish clique" seeking to use Ukrainians to defend the interests of wealthy Jews, and depicted the revolution as a "Zionist coup."[270]
But of course it's the Zionist coup government that's the "Nazis"
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा