Said Joe Pera, quoted in "A BRIEF INTERVIEW WITH JOE PERA ABOUT NETFLIX’S ‘DAHMER’/What does the mild-mannered comedian think about being compared with the Evan Peters version of the serial killer?" (Gawker).
That was published last month. I ran across it because I was looking for things about Joe Pera, whose show we've been catching up on, watching and rewatching, these last couple weeks. I was not looking for anything about Jeffrey Dahmer, and I'm not watching that series, even if it's supposed to be good.
Joe doesn't want to watch it either:
I don’t wanna watch it. The past week I’ve been getting a lot of texts and emails from old friends that I haven’t heard from in years, and I’m excited to open them because I think they’re gonna say something like, “I heard you’re on tour this fall, wanna get beers when you’re in Ithaca?” Or something like that. Then I open them and they’re just like, “The actor on Dahmer sounds like you.”
I did watch the short clip from "Dahmer" — at that link — and I thought the actor had more of a Wisconsin accent. Maybe non-Wisconsinites think all Midwest accents sound alike. I can't easily distinguish between southern accents. Pera says his accent is from Buffalo, and: "people say the Buffalo accent is like Midwest mixed with Canadian."
That is, Pera's accent isn't even a Midwest accent. Buffalo is New York, and people debating what counts as the Midwest may argue about some marginal inclusions — Ohio? Kansas? the Dakotas? — but I've never heard New York in the mix, perhaps because Upstate New York is hard to see next to its attention-getting brother "Downstate New York." I put that in quotes because no one says "Downstate New York" — and Upstate New York is either too modest to complain or too inconspicuous to be heard complaining.
Joe closes the interview with: "I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to speak on this, so I don’t have to respond to all those texts from friends. And no pressure, but I’m doing a tour, so if anybody wanted to come check out what a decent version of somebody with that accent sounds like...."
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I from the Deep South and I can’t distinguish between the variety of southern accents other than Cajun and New Orleanians.
I'm from upstate NY ("Central NYS", Syracuse area), boy we complain about NYC but you're right, too inconspicuous to be noticed.
The accent is very similar to Ohio, shades of Midwest. Buffalo and other border cities are naturally influenced by Canada. Actually people in upstate New York & Ohio (and some I know in PA) generally believe they don't have any accent, funny once you live somewhere else and come back and wow you hear it. There are some other odd commonalities between the regions- the card game Euchre is played nearly exclusively in upstate NY and central Ohio.
Anthony Bourdain, Jeffery Dahmer, Emeril, Julia Child, all those other celebrity chefs, never found them interesting.
I'll give the Dahmer show a pass.
John stop fascism vote republican Henry
I don't understand why Dahmer is suddenly everywhere. Why would I ever want to contemplate, read about, or watch biopics about him? It's so omnipresent that some poor innocent bystander must be contacted by friends out of the blue to say he sounds like the actor.
I've seen definitions of the Midwest that encompass anything on the Great Lakes. I think that's incorrect, and no doubt Buffalo is very much a stretch, but it is not the first time I've seen it.
Also Buffalo is Western NY, not Upstate. The Syracuse area is Central NY. Outside of edge cases like Binghamton, Upstate is mostly limited to areas East of the straight line portion of the Pennsylvania border, and can include regions significantly south of that border. i'm not saying it's logical but that's how it is.
I'm also struck by the idea that Ohio is perhaps not Midwest, and this just demonstrates just how undefined this term is. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-states-are-in-the-midwest/
In drilling through clips online for info on the ongoing Ukraine situation, I bumped into General Ben Hodges and stopped in my tracks. "That's a Westside boy..." I said to myself, and sure enough the man spent some formational years on the west side of Jacksonville then moved to Gadsden county west of Tallahassee. I don't sound quite like him, because I sound like someone who grew up somewhere between Birmingham and Atlanta, just like my mother did.
Accent regionalization is interesting due to the words chosen, how they sit in context, and how they are pronounced and delivered. We humans are some complex creatures. There's a radio/TV guy in Atlanta named Clark Howard that sounds more like me than I do. Listening to him is a very disconcerting experience.
I grew up in Ohio and we considered ourselves to be mid-west. Sure, looking at a map, we're in the east, but culturally, we're mid-west (except southeastern Ohio, which is coal country and more like West Virginia and Kentucky).
Upstate, and especially western, New York and Pennsylvania are similar to Ohio, so it can get tough to decide where to draw the line, but the line must be drawn somewhere.
mgarbowski said...Buffalo is Western NY, not Upstate.
Everything past Yonkers is upstate.
Netflix just can't find a criminal depraved enough to hate. Unless it's two cops whose hands are tied when they return as escaped victim to Dahlmer because, as they explain to bystanders, they have been instructed to be non-judgmental regarding what they see in gay relationships (which are often violent, transactional, and involve younger and older men -- just like many non-gay instances of violence and transactional sex).
Netflix minimizes (titilates?) depicting his actual violence, though they can't get away with hiding all of it. They play up little Jeffrey's childhood traumas and imply throughout that he is a victim like his victims because of his homosexuality. Also his parents' divorce and his father's attempts to bond through hunting, fishing, and taxidermy.
And in the process of fleshing out, as it were, poor Jeff, they reduce the victims themselves into two-dimensional props, effectively obliterating their humanity beyond their gayness in the eager scratching around for evidence of Dahmer's soul.
Which depends on blaming the homophobia of others for his actions.
Netflix: finishing the jobs serial killers can't finish.
My mother is from Pittsburgh and my father from Charlotte, and thus I can pronounce 'pecan" two ways, but "Dahmer sounds like Pera" hits my brain muchasa "Berkowicz sounds like Mr. Rogers." The cognitive dissonance between the characters overrides any speech similarities.
I'm from Michigan, but lived and worked in Buffalo for a few years in the 80s. It's in New York, but it's nothing like a New York accent. It's in Western- far western- New York State. Up against the Canadian border and the northwestern Pennsylvania border (think: Erie, PA). And that small portion of Pennsylvania bumps right into eastern Ohio. In other words, Buffalo is as close to the Ohio border as it is to Syracuse, NY and about 3 times as far from NY City. So, yes- Buffalo people talk with more of a sort of Midwestern sound, mixed with the Northeast and Canada. If that makes any sense. But it's nothing like a New York accent.
I used to drive regularly from Detroit to Buffalo and the fastest route was to go through Canada.
kristen said - "the card game Euchre is played nearly exclusively in upstate NY and central Ohio."
I'm not a Hoosier, but that's where I learned to play Euchre. As far as I know, about fifty years ago, everybody up there pretty much played Euchre. I always saw it as a Midwestern thing, like the pork tenderloin sandwich of card games. I think all the folks up on the lakes are in their own culture, which is nothing like the NYC metro thing and more it's own Midwestern/Great Lakes thing. Those lakes bind you folks together in ways you don't always see from up close. How about Wisconsin and Euchre playing?
When I moved to California for college in 1956, I noticed a California accent, especially on girls. It was later called "Valley Girl" speech. Then when I went home to Chicago for vacation, I noticed a Chicago accent I had not been aware of before leaving. I still hear the Chicago/midwest accent but I don't notice the California accent any more. Either it has disappeared or I have gotten used to it.
"Everything past Yonkers is upstate."
And everything south of Roosevelt Road is Southern Illinois.
My daughters learned euchre from Michigan natives at UMich. I don't think it's limited to only some midwestern states.
Time traveller tells 90s guy about dahmer series
It’s called Inland Northern American English.
Kristen, euchre is also widely played in Michigan.
I'm a fan of true crime documentary, with an especial interest in serial killers. However, why anyone would want to make a show about Dahmer, or watch it, mystifies me. There's nothing interesting or fascinating about his psyche in the same way that, say Ted Bundy or Ivan Milat are fascinating. To me, the entertainment is in trying to explain complex people, and with Dahmer, there's just no mystery about him. He was the product of incest, had a dreadful childhood, and was attracted to men, and while most such people don't become serial killers, you can draw an easy line to understand how he got the way he did. There are far better subjects out there for this sort of show.
Maybe the problem is that there is actually a Great Lakes accent. That fits historical migration patterns better than arbitrary grades of Westernness.
This post hurt my head. Not knowing who either Ethan Peters or Joe Pera were made it difficult to figure out why one was referencing the other.
Growing up in the Pacific Northwest I always thought it was amusing that people 2500 miles east of me thought they were in the “Midwest”. WTF?
Brooklyn used to have a Downstate Medical School. Expanded and renamed SUNY [State University of New York] Downstate Health Sciences University, it is now part of the gigantic Downstate Medical Center, which includes "Colleges of Nursing and Health Related Professions, Schools of Graduate Studies and Public Health, and University Hospital of Brooklyn. It also includes a major research complex and biotechnology facilities." (wikipedia)
Upstate NY needs to seccede from NY state and join Ohio.
From the interview:
JP:You know the women who used to appear in the Big Buck Hunter game?
Gawker: Yeah, the sexy women.
JP: Yes. They’re all older now, and I’ve reached out to them, and I’ve got them signed on to do a film interpretation of Hamlet. If Netflix reads this, I hope they know that we could do it at a fraction of the price of Dahmer.
I've never had a Netflix account, but I'd sign up to watch that.
Lifelong Mid-Southerner here. I can distinguish four or five Southern regional accents easily, and a NE Yankee from a Midwesterner.
I recall learning how to pronounce Toronto, Canada from a native Canuck I used to work with:
sounded like "Tuhronta Can'da" to me.
I'd just like to take this opportunity to extol the virtues of Black Butterflies, a six part limited series that's playing on Netflix. It's the most entertaining show about serial murderers that I've ever seen. It's got the twistiest plot since Gone Girl. There's a subplot that involves abortion, and I defy anyone to state whether it is either pro or anti-abortion. The show is definitely not politically correct when it comes to feminist issues such as rape or abortion--or maybe it is depending on which way the plot twists. Anyway it offers a new twist on serial murderers, rapists, and abortions and continues to offer new twists as the plot unfolds. The subtext of the show is not to raise your consciousness about these issues but to entertain you. That alone is a new twist.....It's a French show so there's plenty of nudity. Lots of gore too. I can't recommend it highly enough.
I can distinguish a few Southern accents (my Dad was from Alabama, Mom from southeast-central Wisconsin). There's a peculiar one centered around north Alabama that my Dad had that I can always recognize -- I was watching a movie with RG Armstrong and his accent is a dead ringer for Dad's, both from the Birmingham area. As a Wisconsin kid I tend to have that nasal-upper Midwest thing, but with some y'all's thrown in. My sister spent all kinds of time on the east coast D.C.-area and has pretty much converted to that accent.
I believe the Chicago area is generally considered to have the most neutral accent and is the main one that TV presenters adopt.
I've heard of Jeffrey Dahmer, but otherwise I'm lost.
I think most people know the Chicago accent and the Minnesota accent. Other variations of Midwestern accents haven't made much of an impression. That seems to be a general rule. We know the Boston accent and maybe the Maine accent. We know the generic Southern accent and maybe the Nahlins accent. There's the New York accent and the Philadelphia-Bawlmer accent. The smaller regional variants are lost in the mix.
There's an interesting youtube somewhere tracking Hillary Clinton's accent over the years. Southern when she appeared on the scene. Eastern when she was in the White House and running for Senator from New York. Reverting to Midwest Chicagoan when she ran for president -- or at least with a raucous, raw intonation that she didn't get from the South or the East Coast.
Great Lakes accent or dialect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_Northern_American_English
Having lived in Buffalo and Milwaukee, I can attest to the truth of it.
The neutral American accent or Broadcaster's English was supposed to be the North Midland dialect spoken from central Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois westward through Missouri and Iowa into Nebraska. Kansas City and Des Moines pronunciation was often cited as the norm. Academics discovered or invented the neutral accent. They see similarities between North Midland accents and those of Western New England and the Western US. The cradle of North Midland English was supposed to be in Pennsylvania, but Philadelphia and Pittsburgh both have very distinct accents now.
"This post hurt my head. Not knowing who either Ethan Peters or Joe Pera were made it difficult to figure out why one was referencing the other."
I had never heard of Ethan Peters, but you can see right in the first sentence — the post title — that he's playing the role of Dahmer in a new show.
You can see in the headline of the linked article that Joe Pera is a comedian. And I tell you that he has a show that Meade and I watch all the time. If you don't know the show and you're not interested in finding out more about it, then this post is still useful in it's discussion of how to talk to your friends and how to get together with them when you're in the same town, some misunderstandings about accents, and the ups and downs of New York state.
Do you really need extra material to explain the Dahmer show and the Pera show? This reminds me of the way what distinguished Nana's turkey sandwich was too much mayonnaise. You really don't need that much mayonnaise. But some people want a whole layer of mayonnaise the way you'd do a layer of peanut butter.
I was born in Panama Fla., grew up in Greenville Ms. and San Antonio Tx.. I was 14 when my father retired from the military and moved the family back to my parents hometown Kansas City, Mo.. My 8th grade homeroom teacher signed me up for speech therapy. That went on for two weeks till I had a substitute speech therapist. After hearing me speak she asked me where I was from. She laughed and told me I had no speech problems. I was relieved. It was like riding on the short bus for two weeks.
Long term effect is there are still words I don't pronounce correctly even at 70. Some long words still have a drawl. The advantage is that when my central midwest friends and I go on hunting or golf trips to the deep south I can translate for them.
When I was teenager working for RF campaign. I met his advance man Jerry Bruno who complained that the NYC Democrats thought there was another city the size of NY just across the Hudson and didn't realize there was a lot of diverse territory to cover.
There is such a big difference in southern accents although I wasn't as sensitized to it until I moved to east TN. It's always interesting to me when I watch a movie or tv show that features a character or characters which should have a southern accent which one they are going to go for. Ha, they rarely pick east TN.
East Tennesseans have a Southern Appalachian accent or dialect; Middle Tennesseans track close to north Alabemese and West Tennessee talk is much more influenced by B/black patterns (though
I still hear a distinct difference between local B/black and W/white speech, usually).
My little brother had a speech impediment that was corrected by a helpful young therapist who let us all try out that newfangled tape recorder machine. I was about 11 or 12 I suppose, and when I heard myself I thought, "Man, that sounds stupid!"
I worked at improving my own enunciation and delivery and by the time I was in college I only revealed that I was native to the place (virtually native to the campus) with a few words, whether accidentally or on purpose.
I ended up doing a lot of public speaking in my work, so I'm glad a took a PS course in my brief sojourn among the theater kids.
Television is better with Joe Pera on it.
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