From a Daily Beast article, based on the forthcoming Maggie Haberman’s book "Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America"
According to an excerpt obtained by The Daily Beast, a week before the second debate unfolded in St. Louis in 2016, Trump’s close adviser at the time, Reince Priebus, presented the aspiring political figure with a question on same-sex bathrooms.
In playing the role of a female transgender student, Priebus asked Trump whether this hypothetical student could still use the girl’s bathroom.
Without missing a beat, Trump said he had a question. “Cocked or decocked?” Trump asked.
Offering up a “blank stare,” the group was taken aback.
“Decocked?” an unspecified individual in the room responded.
Trump then began making “a chopping gesture.” “With cock or without cock?” he said.
At that moment, his advisers sitting within Trump Tower had come to understand that Trump wanted to know if the imaginary student had transitioned and undergone bottom surgery.
“What difference does that make?” an adviser in the room responded to Trump. The now-former president shot back that such a determination would impact his answer.
“What if a girl was in the bathroom and someone came in, lifted up a skirt, and a schlong was hanging out,” Trump continued....
पोस्ट्स
१०० टिप्पण्या:
I miss him so much.
Trump cut to the chase.
Are we supposed to be offended by Trump's statement or by the unknown person saying "What difference does that make?"
Because I'm pretty sure I'm more offended by that question than Trump's crudeness.
He just won my vote. Thank you Maggie Halberstam.
Seems like a perfectly logical question. Expressed pointedly (so to speak) with his characteristic bluntness (again, so to speak).
Wait, this is supposed to be scandalous??
Those guys in that audience were pretty slow on the uptake. Is there anyone who read this excerpt just now who didn;t immediately know what Trump was talking about? We already know, as did they, that Trump is quite capable of speaking crudely, so BFD. His question for clarification was perfectly reasonable in reaching his answer to the posed question.
"Without missing a beat, Trump said he had a question. “Cocked or decocked?” Trump asked."
Seems like a relevant question.
What was the answer?
First, this sounds like bullshit.
In a debate, the moderator would ask a question, not a transgender person.
Next, I think about these things pretty much along the same line.
If you are just playing dress-up, you are a fraud.
If you get yourself de-cocked, then you are committed, and for better or worse, I will respect that person far more.
As is so often the case, Trump was correct in his question, but his presentation was not understood by those around him. That said, his voters understand him perfectly.
Inelegantly phrased, as Trump does, but important. To pretend otherwise is delusional; to ignore it completely will engender (pun intended) a tremendous backlash.
If Maggie Haberman reported it, it never happened.
If Trump's advisors failed to understand him, then they do not understand the American public. In the context of the question, his response is perfectly intelligible, but probably too crude for use in a presidential debate. Only members of the Uniparty could be so obtuse, and the example illustrates not any problem with Trump but with the staffers that the Rinos were supplying him with. The Rinos never had an interest in Trump actually winning the election.
I suspect that most parents of girls would fully agree that the "cocked"/"uncocked" distinction is important when it comes to using public restroom facilities. It should also be important on government IDs that might be necessary to identify someone in a critical situation. A driver's license that identifies a "cocked" person as a female is as useless on one that lists eye color wrong. Even if one accepts the woke definitions that distinguish between sex and gender, there is no reason for a government ID to include gender identity rather than biological sex.
Transgenderism is one of those interesting political subjects where the right is focused on group benefits and the left is focused on individual freedoms from state intervention. (And neither side is actually focused on the mental health outcomes of the individuals, which was the whole originating point for "social acceptance" and support of transgenderism)
Trump's point is exactly where society was in 2016 when it was grappling with questions like:
- If a person identifies as female and is in a locker room getting changed with their penis hanging out, how do parents feel about this?
- How do we feel about women's bathrooms being used for stand up urination?
- How do we feel about eliminating gender separation for kids in intimate settings like bathrooms and locker rooms?
Those issues were never settled in a cultural and societal manner. Acceptance was just forced.
Ice Nine said...
"Wait, this is supposed to be scandalous??
Those guys in that audience were pretty slow on the uptake."
Same deer-in-the-headlights stare as Sarah Palin when Katie Couric asked her about the 'Bush doctrine,' whatever that was supposed to mean. Sarah should have asked Katie to define the term, but missed the opportunity. At least this group asked the question; but if you can't stand the answer, don't ask the question.
New tag: Trump is like LBJ
I do not believe his advisors didn't know what he was talking about, or thought it didn't make a difference.
It makes a huge difference!
Why are trans people making HIGH SCHOOL the laboratory here? It's so wrong!
Decocked, vs, bottom surgery.
First, I don’t believe the left
Second, I’m about to end my time embedding myself in leftists politics so I Can document, meaningless twaddle like this .
Third, exactly what does the left say this is supposed to mean.
Last, clarity is key in communication
For the bathroom question, I have thought that the signs should not be women and men, but penis and vagina. The rest does not matter. If you are a woman--commit to it--man up.
***
That sounds to me like a Rush Limbaugh - attempt at humor - answer.
I know many of Trump's male supporters like that kind of thing. It's not earth shattering - no one would write a book if Biden said it, and Biden says much worse on a daily basis. Remember- Republicans must be perfect first, second and last in order to compete with any imperfect, bad joke, corrupt or generally gross democrat.
The guy's a natural. It's phrasing you'd hear at any small-town cafe or bar with "normal" guys talking trash. Maybe even women -- who knows?
People who insist on saying "women's health care" and "reproductive rights" are easily shocked by the crudity of Trump's language, like Victorians upset at the sight of naked table legs.
When I first saw the headline, I thought it was a story about the gun metaphor: is the gun cocked?
How naive I was. Thanks, Democrats, for making the question "cocked or decocked" actually a serious question and not just a very crude remark.
Actually, that's pretty funny.
Not sure how if fits with the Trump is Satan meme though.
Please stop making me miss Trump.
That’s EXACTLY the right question to ask. That anyone thinks otherwise is one of the main problems of our times. Why is “no cocks in the girls bathroom” so hard to understand? Feminists and other Lefty fools complain about women “feeling unsafe” and “rape culture”, and yet they are complicit in tearing down the simple, bright-line rules that society uses (or used to use) to protect women from violent, criminal males.
Apparently the goal is to blame all men, while facilitating actual abusers. The triumph of feelings over logic.
Trump was for gender affirmation surgery early, as he was for gay marriage.
Pistols pr Penises?
Is this a discussion of Alex Baldwin's situation?
When he's right he's right.
my wording has always been delicate and dainty >> dangler? Y/N
Trump has the ability to some things up perfectly and humorously.
People with penises should not be using a women's restroom. Penises are dangerous.
Ice Nine said, "Those guys in that audience were pretty slow on the uptake."
Or just completely taken aback by what they had just heard. Or perhaps conflating the question with his claim about shooting someone on 5th Avenue. Who knows?
During my morning commutes, I recall hearing about the presidential candidates, including Trump, on a radio talk show. Sometimes they cited something Trump had said that seemed perfectly reasonable, however controversial it was to his opponents. "I might be able to get behind this guy," I would think.
The next day they would quote something he said that was truly stomach-churning. And I would wonder why, why, why did he have to say that?
The "cocked or decocked" question is in the "reasonable" category. Completely.
Trump is correct again!
You use the bathroom based on your genitalia, not your feelings or attire.
Maggie is behind the curve. Even NYT readers are opposed to gender mutilation of minors.
questions for those assigned female at birth..
do YOU want to be sharing a restroom with chix with dicks?
do YOU want to be sharing a shower room with chix with dicks?
do YOU want YOUR DAUGHTER to be sharing a shower with chix with dicks?
finally, do you MIND, if/when your daughter is raped? If it's a rape by a translesbian is it ok?
Dog bites man story.
But doesn't this incident really express Trump's bluntness?
His speaking style has gotten him "in trouble" in the past. But some people love it.
And here I didn't think I could love him any more.
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
...Remember- Republicans must be perfect first, second and last in order to compete with the democrat big cheese corruption excusing press.
Au Contraire. Every time the media go after Trump it stregthens him. That's what trolling is all about.
The proper response is "Up yours. With a mackerel. Sideways."
The state should not have right to inspect your genitals to determine what bathroom you belong in.
Cocked or decocked?
“What difference does that make?” an adviser in the room responded to Trump.
A few years later, some U Penn female swimmers apparently thought that cocked-or-decocked was a relevant question. They complained that one their teammates, the "trans-woman" Lia Thomas, was NOT decocked as "she" walked around their locker room, swinging free, and not just free, but evidently interested and enlarged (if you know what I mean) at what "she" saw all around.
How could that NOT be relevant to a woman who values her privacy, and evidently some still do.
The term "preference cascade" has been applied to the silenced subjects of a totalitarian regime, who, after years of effective suppression of dissenting opinion, suddenly discover that they are NOT the only ones who realize how screwed up the regime is, and the dissent just cascades like a raging river from then on.
I think the totalitarian "trans" ideology is on the verge of encountering a preference cascade on the subject of secretly encouraging school kids to embrace gender dysphoria and have their sex parts medically and surgically mutilated, without their parents even knowing about it.
At least I hope so.
PS - A big thanks to Chris Rufo and Libs of TikTok for their role in bringing this about, if it happens.
Trump was accurate and non-elite clearly understand the thrust of his position....so too do the women in the women's restroom. He should have followed it with a Reaganesque smile and shake of the head.
The media is trying its best to undermine Trump once again. But this time we know their reporting is biased bullshit to the nth degree. Only left-wing faithful believe what MSM report. It’s Pravda masquerading as NYT. Fuck them all!
Heh, heh. There are so many layers to this interchange.
Start with: if you are asked a silly question in a practice session, is it wrong to mock the question?
Trump is like a lot of us--although I can only think of a few women who would respond this way, and most of them are comediennes of the Joan Rivers/Sarah Silverman/Whoopi Goldberg type.
Joe Sixpack would have caught that immediately. Trump should have "cut off" some of those advisers who were slow on the uptake. But then they probably had Ivy League degrees and mostly lived in the Accela Corridor. Maybe they would have understood if he'd answered "Rooster or Capon?"
The thrust of his position was clear and would be understood by the women/girls using the women's restroom.
He could have had a Reaganesque smile and nod of the head.
Its amazing how the elite can get everyone to believe up is down and black is white.
How many Americans are in favor of "Girls" with a penises using a Girls bathroom. I'd assume its less than 30%. But its that 25% that controls the media and the schools. And how many transgenders are there 1 person out of 500? why we are always talking about them, and why would this be in a POTUS debate?
As for Trump's "crudeness", he's giving the correct answer. Penis or no Penis? Different type of "Girl" different kind of answer.
Gusty Winds said...
Trump has the ability to some things up perfectly and humorously.
People with penises should not be using a women's restroom. Penises are dangerous.
Exactly ! the other side of this alleged comment is that Trump was OK with men who had sacrificed their penis to confirm their decision to be like women.
Roy - you missed my point.
Roy - You missed my point.
"Transgenderism is one of those interesting political subjects where the right is focused on group benefits and the left is focused on individual freedoms from state intervention."
Gotta think about that some more, but I'm not so sure that's a correct framing.
This story, if true (or, I guess it doesn't have to be true, it is Haberman after all), is used to show Trump is a crude buffoon, but I think it shows that Trump is blunt and cuts right to the real point, and in this case, it is a point that I think a good majority of the electorate would agree with.
Trump isn't trolling anyone. This is an old quote, and really old news. It IS the loyal left media digging and mining for any tid-bit they can find. Why? Because they can't really talk about Biden. Yeah - this particular quote, if even true, is a nothing-burger - as they say.
The state should not have right to inspect your genitals to determine what bathroom you belong in.
Ok, but the law should prohibit anyone with male genitalia using the women's restroom or locker room. How that is enforced is a separate question. I would say that if a woman files a complaint, the guy should be arrested.
Standard disclosure: I don't believe Maggie H without video evidence backed up by a transcript if possible.
1. Trump really has a way of cutting through to the heart of the issue sometimes.
2. I don't believe the audience reaction because the first thing I, my wife and everyone we know well would ask is if the "girl" was with penis or sans shlong. It makes all the difference, so you have to be studiously obtuse to plain language and the issues to react blankly.
3. I still don't understand why Democrats have chosen to die on this hill, of all the battles they could be fighting right now. Yes Progressives want to supplant the family with government, but the timing for their pitch is hideous: we have real problems to deal with and should not waste energy on the thoroughly ginned up trans issue.
Given the standard disclosure and numbers 2 and 3, I call BULLSHIT on this stupid story framed to make Trump look dumb which just makes the audience look dumb.
Its quite possible Trump used the word "castrated" and Halberstam changed it to "decocked" to make Trump look dumb.
The state should not have right to inspect your genitals to determine what bathroom you belong in.
The Left should not impose the wrong genitals on a women's restroom but should use the one they belong in.
Cocked or uncocked does matter.
Ask Alec Baldwin.
The story is that President Trump actually did debate prep.
The scandal is how little it helped.
Maybe we should ask someone who is de-cocked for their opinion- Howard, where are you?
Soap Opera men like Trump's humor.
It gives me a meh. All of it, from all sides. The media are desperate to keep Trump-hate alive among their rabid Trump-hating base. That's all this is. Nothing more.
Loyal left response: **what Trump said - OMG!!!! I need a safe space! Impeach! More proof he's a Russian spy! Hate hate hate. It's more proof Trump is anti dick removal surgery. or something. It's more proof Trump hates gays. or something. More proof Trump is insensitive to gender inclusive bathrooms!!! or something... and on and on.... I heard Trump is a rapist! and on an on ***
Muy fonny. He is Rickles with lots more money.
This whole bathroom issue could be solved if people really wanted. The segregation of sexes due to sexual attraction is no longer viable given the dropping of the social blindness to homosexuality. So the question arises, why do we segregate for bathrooms and dressing rooms? We do so based on anatomy.
So simply change from "women's" and "men's" to "penis" and "no-penis". Easy to check if there is a complaint. And penis-holders are unlikely to complain about a no-penis person who lost their penis to injury or disease using the penis room.
One complaint is some violence against penis-holders dressed in traditionally women's clothing and appearance being assaulted in the men's bathroom. Just prosecute such sexual assaults vigorously.
Either way, should any of those who love to complain about this really want a solution, then we must start with why is the segregation based on male/female anatomy still justifiable. And if it is, then on what objective criteria should such segregation be based using current public acceptance of homosexuals and cross-dressing (to encompass those who prefer to wear the other gender's clothing and those who are transgender)
Transgenderism is one of those interesting political subjects...
Sorry Treejoe but you lost me with that opening phrase. Like Green Energy the whole of Transmania is built on lies and wild claims never substantiated while the real dangers go unmentioned by the activists, so the topic tends to bore me. It's so surreal that I can't take part anymore.
I've proposed for some time that bathrooms should no longer post male or female figures, but penises and vaginas. If you have a penis you go to that bathroom. Problem solved.
I know, I know, it's not going to happen, but that is the fundamental conflict with the issue.
We keep hearing the phrase "sex assigned at birth"
The other day I saw a comment that said we should start saying "sex observed at birth"
John stop fascism vote republican Henry
Hahahaha! He was always a genius at taking a relevant question and phrasing it as a comedian would.
Fitting answer for a guy who generally goes off half-cocked.
You know she only included it because she thought it would be a karate chop into even more infamy for Trump. Instead of having lots of people who agree with him. And note that he was ahead of the debate.
You know she only included it because she thought it would be a karate chop into even more infamy for Trump. Instead of having lots of people who agree with him. And note that he was ahead of the debate.
Oddly enough his response is halfway a pro trans answer. If they have undergone surgery then he’s okay with trans women using a woman’s bathroom. It’s a crude and to the point answer.
faux ignorance - definition
A tactic that can take several forms:
physical: Walking away shaking one's head.
verbal: "What?", as if you fail to comprehend the statement/question.
absence: Where one stands there utterly unresponsive.
These can be used to:
defuse jokes : It's a way to feign not getting it without admitting ignorance or conspiracy.
virtue signal : Feigning ignorance to assign busy work to your opposite in order to avoid responding to a point. "I've never heard that. Could you provide a cite?"
avoid commitment: Pretending you don't know commonly used colloquialisms or slang to avoid taking a stance. "What do you mean by cocked?", or the blank stare.
among other things.
Come to think of it, they're all techniques to avoid accountability.
"If Trump's advisors failed to understand him"
Why, assuming the report is true, did he have advisors who failed to understand him? Why did he fail to pick competent help?
Sure, GOPe rats were all around, but still.
Every actual bit of testimony is obscured by ridiculous mind-reading narration. I hate that journo style, which you often see on the lowest-grade clickbait content. Let me translate to information-only:
'Priebus asked Trump as a hypothetical female transgender student if (s)he could use the girl’s bathroom.
“Cocked or decocked?” Trump fired back.
“Decocked?” asked another advisor.
Trump then began making a chopping gesture. “With cock or without cock?”.
“What difference does that make?”.
“What if a girl was in the bathroom and someone came in, lifted up a skirt, and a schlong was hanging out ...'
Crude. But exactly correct and on point. As usual.
Homosexual in a male or simulated feminine shell.
Kay wrote: "The state should not have right to inspect your genitals to determine what bathroom you belong in."
Kay is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT here.
We don't need the state to do this. We can do this ourselves and beat the living fuck out of any dude who is caught in the little girls bathroom. We don't need the DEEP STATE to handle this for us. We're perfectly capable of rearranging this guys nutsack all by ourselves.
Let the state handle transporting him to the hospital.
Kay wrote: "The state should not have right to inspect your genitals to determine what bathroom you belong in."
Kay is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT here.
We don't need the state to do this. We can do this ourselves and beat the living fuck out of any dude who is caught in the little girls bathroom. We don't need the DEEP STATE to handle this for us. We're perfectly capable of rearranging this guys nutsack all by ourselves.
Let the state handle transporting him to the hospital.
Blogger Kay said...
The state should not have right to inspect your genitals to determine what bathroom you belong in.
I would add an exception to that. If a man with a penis exposes himself in a women's bathroom or shower, the authorities should have the right to confirm a woman's complaint.
Kay: The state should not have right to inspect your genitals to determine what bathroom you belong in.
If men considered the feelings of actual women, there would be no reason to call in "the state." When people feel they have the right to defy (and glory in defying) the reasonable expectations of others, then at some point "the state" does have to be called in.
If you want "the state," any level of government or mob opinion, to stay out of things, then don't make a career out of challenging and shocking the reasonable expectations most people share.
With wokism, we do get more of "the state" intervening in our lives.
beat the living fuck out of any dude who is caught in the little girls bathroom
Social justice.
Traditionally, passing the Eunuch Test allows attendance in the harem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpxBeOMyiB4
If you want "the state," any level of government or mob opinion, to stay out of things, then don't make a career out of challenging and shocking the reasonable expectations most people share.
Imagine if Biden were to make this same argument about gov overreach in prosecuting the Capitol rioters.
Video, or it didn't happen.
Or video, everybody laughed at the joke.
Transgenderism is one of those interesting political subjects where the right is focused on group benefits and the left is focused on individual freedoms from state intervention. (And neither side is actually focused on the mental health outcomes of the individuals,
I don't think I'm on board with this analysis. I know I don't speak for "the Right," but I can say of myself that, first, I'm pretty much always simultaneously focused on both individual rights and group benefits - in fact I'd say that's a decent working definition of "conservative." A conservative - or at least my type of such - wants a high-trust society (that is, lots of group benefits) and believes that the way to get there is to respect and privilege individual rights over those of any group, because that's been the way that has demonstrably worked best to maximize both freedom and human thriving, if I may borrow from the atheists.
Second, the Left doesn't seem to be focused on individual freedom from state intervention in the case of the non-trans, who must be continually interfered with by the state in order to be sure that trans group benefits are privileged over everyone's individual rights.
Third, from what I'm hearing, those of us on the Right are very focused indeed on the mental health and wellbeing of the individuals who we believe are suffering from body or gender dysphoria. We want them to get the best possible help so that they can live in their own, unaltered skins happily. But for those who just can't get there, I at least (and all my conservative friends, again though I know we don't represent all on the Right) am ok with their altering their bodies to live as the other sex - as long as they're adults with mature judgment, and as long as society doesn't have to pretend to believe the fiction that they actually ARE the other sex. I'm not ok with their presenting this way and that, including the ridiculous cartoon boobs on that teacher, demanding that I constantly recognize their changing current incarnations as valid expressions of their actual, physical, chromosomal being.
So simply change from "women's" and "men's" to "penis" and "no-penis".
I often say "I have to go to the little boys' room". I'll be damned if I'm going have to say "I have to go to the little dicks' room".
I am with FullMoon, I believe all of it except the part where nobody laughed, and nobody could understand what he meant.
“What difference does that make?” an adviser in the room responded to Trump. The now-former president shot back that such a determination would impact his answer.
“What if a girl was in the bathroom and someone came in, lifted up a skirt, and a schlong was hanging out,” Trump continued....
So, the adviser is a moron who should have been fired.
Because Trump was entirely correct
Kay wrote: "The state should not have right to inspect your genitals to determine what bathroom you belong in."
Key is a big fan of women getting raped in bathrooms, and girls getting molested in them.
1: It is entirely the job of "the State" to enforce the law.
2: It is entirely reasonable for the law to establish that you are only allowed in the bathroom of your sex
3: It is entirely correct for police to arrest men who've gone into a women's "rest room" / "bathroom" / "locker room" / "changing" area when done so without clear legitimate reason to do so
4: If you have a penis, you are "a man" for purposes of these arrests
5: "Because I feel like a female" is NOT a legitimate reason to go into women's spaces
Stop being such a monster, Kay
When Target changed their policy to letting men in ladies rooms a man in a dress was caught taking photos of women in the bathroom and another man in a dress was caught touching a young girl in the ladies changing room at out local Target. The picture taker “lives as a woman”, the assaulter does not but is a known sexual deviant who put on a dress to get unfettered access to young girls in a vulnerable situation. This is just one Target in one city that I know of personally only because I know a manager there. Yes, it was mostly hushed up. Very little local coverage and of course ZERO national coverage even though it is a topic of national concern and political interest.
Hilarious!! Cocked or decocked, and I immediately thought about firearms.
Would women feel safer if only Eunuchs (MSNBC men) used their bathrooms?
Exactly why he was elected in the first place!
Quick question: What is former President Obama's opinion on this subject?
Google says: Obama made this an issue, with his Education Department's "Dear Colleague" letter of guidelines to schools on treatment of transgendered students. The Ed Dept said to allow transgender students to use the facility of their gender identity. With loss of federal funds as an implicit threat to violating this novel interpretation of Title IX, compliance and lawsuits followed. Since it was a guideline letter without legal standing, Trump dumped it, with his Ed Dept sending out another "Dear Colleague" letter than rescinded Obama's, leaving it up to states and local jurisdictions to make law on the matter, rather than imposing policy without benefit of legislation.
My opinion? I enjoyed the South Park take on the subject.
Do you have lady parts or laddy parts down there?
That's pretty straightforward.
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Can you imagine the fun I would have had if this trans hysteria had been around when we were in high school? I wonder if I could have gotten elected Homecoming Queen? You know I would have tried.
Duh, it was an allusion to the Second Amendment.
Women, men, and "our Posterity" are from Earth. Feminists are from Venus. Masculinists are from Mars. Social progressives are from Uranus, a distant orbit.
Transgenderism is one of those interesting political subjects where the right is focused on group benefits and the left is focused on individual freedoms from state intervention. (And neither side is actually focused on the mental health outcomes of the individuals,
No
Every single individual woman is better off if rapists and molesters can not put on dresses, and then come into rooms where those women are vulnerable and harm them.
"the left is focused on individual freedoms from state intervention": If by that you mean "the Left wants to help criminals victimize more people", well, that's what the Left always does.
If you mean "the Left wants to help people deny reality", again that's what the Left always does.
If you mean "the Left wants to help empower individuals", the problem you face is that encouraging mentally ill people to continue to be mentally ill does NOT empower them, it destroys them.
The Trans issue is an issue like most othersL: The Right honors reality, and the Left tries to destroy it, and anyone who refuses to admire the Emperor's new clothes.
James K said...
The state should not have right to inspect your genitals to determine what bathroom you belong in.
=========
but Ken Starr was appointed to decide this for a President!
That was pretty mean..to Priebus.
So now you are telling me that my "Official State Genitals Inspector" license and badge were just a big waste of money?
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