१ सप्टेंबर, २०२२
"A survey of mothers from 65 to 75 years old with at least two living adult children found that about 11 percent were estranged from a child...."
"One of the downsides of the careful, conscientious, anxious parenting that has become common in the United States is that our children sometimes get too much of us—not only our time and dedication, but our worry, our concern. Sometimes the steady current of our movement toward children creates a wave so powerful that it threatens to push them off their own moorings; it leaves them unable to find their footing until they’re safely beyond the parent’s reach. Sometimes they need to leave the parent to find themselves.... In my experience, part of what confuses today’s parents of adult children is how little power they have when their child decides to end contact. From the adult child’s perspective, there might be much to gain from an estrangement: the liberation from those perceived as hurtful or oppressive, the claiming of authority in a relationship, and the sense of control over which people to keep in one’s life.... [O]ur American love affair with the needs and rights of the individual conceals how much sorrow we create for those we leave behind. We may see cutting off family members as courageous rather than avoidant or selfish. We can convince ourselves that it’s better to go it alone than to do the work it takes to resolve conflict....."
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People are people. Some get along as adults some don't. Some people are assholes - even to their child or mother. 9/10 are NOT estranged.
People always blame the parents, but some kids are just no damn good. Like me.
Nothing new. All was not well between Queen Gertrude and Hamlet.
Why just mothers? Yeah, that was rhetorical.....
Well, they have been taught that their parents were racist and privileged for a long time now.
Hey, it worked.
Inga is racist too. Not my rules. But I can play by them.
Heil.
Sounds like that 11% of mothers that age voted for Trump.
I'm estranged from my eldest (He is in his young 40s). We haven't seen or spoken to him in almost twelve years. We are conservative and he spoke as acted as if he was as well until he married a very liberal woman he met on line. They visited weekly for dinner until their wedding and then no one in my family heard from them again (not even a thank you note to relatives for their wedding gifts). I kept reaching out and finally he responded by email telling me he didn't want to have anything to do with us again because we were conservative. There was no big fight and no warning. He was suddenly just gone from our lives.
He didn't just cut off his mom and dad, he also cut off his siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins. He wasn't there for the birth of his nieces and nephews, his paternal grandparents deaths, nor is he around as his maternal grandmother is experiencing her last days. He has missed a lot.
If he walked in the door right now, I would give him a big hug and tell him how great it is to see him and how much I love him.
I've learned not to stress over it and feel as if it is something wrong that I did. I have liberal relatives and get along fine with them although we agree to disagree on some issues. There are other things we can discuss and agree upon. I wouldn't shut them out of my life unless they became abusive.
Sometimes estrangements happen without a big bang and it just is what it is. Look at the good things in your life and move on.
I doubt that anxious parenting or politics is the primary cause of estrangement. I suspect some of those mothers were bad parents due to alcoholism, mental illness or something else, and some of those adult children are alcoholics, mentally ill, etc.
Only 11?
11 percent doesn't seem very high. What was it in 1950? 1970? 2000?
Here is a younger child who knows the score.
All complaints should be referred to the....
https://youtu.be/D2QG_272pOU
"We may see cutting off family members as courageous rather than avoidant or selfish."
Now do when parents show the child the door on their 18th birthday.
Or as my aunt told me of one old couple who signed their farm over to their adult son, who promptly put them in a taxi and sent them downtown to fend for themselves without their home.
Nothing will change, because nothing has changed is an intrinsic artifact of individual dignity, agency, and religious temperament (e.g. character).
That said, women, men, and "our Posterity" are from Earth. Feminists are from Venus. Masculinists are from Mars. Social progressives are from Uranus.
Reminds me of the old joke: a woman is asked by a reporter, "If you had to do it all over again, would you still have five children?"
Sure, she replies, just not those.
Politics was probably the least divisive aspect of our family life until about 2008, when my mother went from being an unreflective R to being an unreflective D. It never served much purpose to debate the stuff--I would just nod, mumble, and move on--since neither of us had the remotest chance of persuading the other.
As far as mothering itself, my mother was widowed at a young age with four sons. As I reflect back and try to make sense of how we turned out-- Crime ending in an OD/Success/Success but early death/Not very functional--it was the amount of attention we got from momster that made the difference. She spoiled the first one (who was a bad seed anyway) and babied and discouraged the last to the point he was afraid of trying anything.
(I would have loved it if the oldest had disappeared into the mist--unfortunately he remained an incubus and leech on her emotions and finances until his Elvis impersonation.)
Only us two in the middle were even semi-normal, largely because we had each other and brains too, not just issues and hang-ups revolving around bad mothering.
On my son's 18th birthday I gave him a copy of Army FM 100-something--"Basic Survival Techniques."
He has been (mostly) on his own since.
CFS- We have relatives who we are still in touch with but cannot and do not express any political views when we chat. Used to be, we could be at a party or gathering and although differences were evident in political views, we could still openly discuss them and hug each other goodbye at the close of the party.
CFS.... that's terrible! That is possibly the worst case of whipped I ever heard of. It says everything about his unfortunate character defect and not about you or your husband's parenting.
Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.
CFS- We have relatives who we are still in touch with but cannot and with who we do not express any political views with when we chat. Used to be, we could be at a party or gathering and although differences were evident in political views, we could still openly discuss them and hug each other goodbye at the close of the party.
It isn't helpful to say "The rules of family life have changed," as if there were one set of rules, as if there were no class (or class-like) differences; or even as if within one class all families followed the same rules. (I suspect these so-called "rules" of behavior are observed after the fact, not established first as precepts and then followed.)
"New rules" maybe means nothing more than "We've noticed a lot of people breaking the old rules." It seems presumptuous to call these breakings of rules "new rules."
serious question (that just sounds snarky)
Do these numbers include mothers that had their child cut up into pieces, and then vaccumed out and thrown into a garbage can?
Because; If my mom had done that to me, i NEVER would have talked to her again
cfss said
until their wedding and then no one in my family heard from them again (not even a thank you note to relatives for their wedding gifts).
well, at least they had the decency to accept all those presents. Nothing says class like getting one more haul before dumping people.
Some people on the Right disown their kids over sex issues; some people on the Left cut off their parents over politics. I have the sense that the former is waning and the latter is increasing.
My husband was estranged from his oldest daughter (by first marriage) for fourteen years because of a simple misunderstanding. They have been back in touch for around 9 months and I can't tell you how happy it has made him. He is still estranged from his youngest daughter who married into a very wealthy family and has no need for him any longer.
I want to know how many of the estranged children have Trump Derangement Syndrome and cut off the parents because the parents are Republican. That is the cause of many estrangements I personally know of.
800 people is a pretty small sample. Do those 88 mothers have anything in common in their personalities or their ways of dealing with conflict? It doesn't actually sound like that high of a percentage to me.
My 38 yo daughter wants to take me diving and sailing in Croatia next summer. My son and grandkids love swimming hiking fishing camping with me. That's why we left California and moved to New England to be near both of our kids and all of our grandkids. We're all pretty competitive so we have our ups and downs but nobody takes the aggression personally.
We are very very lucky. I think the primary things that helped us was my wife stayed home as a full-time mom until they were in junior high. Plus, we were always on the same page with the level of academics, sports, chores,restrictions and discipline.
I can't imagine the pain and sorrow of being cut off from any of my people I helped create.
I know someone who came out and was cut off by his father. He called his father every weekend, and every weekend his father would decline to come to the phone. After seven years, the father came around. They are very close now. A few hundred phone calls go a long way.
I'm willing to believe that this is simply a result of about 5% of mothers and 5% of daughters being utterly horrible, toxic people that anyone sane would avoid. Readily testable: do these 11% have other broken relationships?
No evidence is presented that this 11% differs from the past. As mikee says, some people are jerks. In fact, considering the number of kids or parents who are alcoholics or druggies or criminals, 11% seems low.
It has always been. Except, if you did the polling any time up to the Sixties, you would ask the dads too.
I wonder what this poll would look like if we counted absent fathers as estranged, especially in the communities with high fa Ily disintegration rates.
This is just one more example of the prog march to discourage motherhood, aimed at middle-class women.
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