"Lucy Marshall, president of Women's Medical Fund in Madison, said no clinics in Wisconsin are providing abortion care as of Friday morning.... After a draft opinion indicating the court was poised to overturn
Roe was leaked, [Wisconsin Attorney General Josh] Kaul said he would not enforce the state's abortion ban. Still, local law enforcement officials could choose to do so.
Gov. Tony Evers attempted to repeal the state's abortion ban prior to the SCOTUS decision. But Republican lawmakers rejected the special session Wednesday, gaveling in and out within seconds.... In
a Marquette Law School poll this month that surveyed just Wisconsin residents, 58 percent of respondents said they are 'very concerned' about abortion policy. The June poll also shows 31 percent said abortion should be legal in most cases, 27 percent legal in all cases and 24 percent illegal in most cases."
The abortion ban Kaul refers to dates back to 1849, and it makes abortion a felony (unless it is needed to save the woman's life).
पोस्ट्स
१०१ टिप्पण्या:
I find it hard to believe that MAGA, who are in favor of withholding education and even food from undocumented immigrant children, who have done nothing wrong, really give a shit about the unborn. Many of you would prob support a law requiring sterilization or abortions for undocumented women, and no doubt the Supreme Court would be okay with it.
Bill Gates will pay for all meals, lodging, and transportation expenses to travel to Illinois for an abortion.
The abortion industry will thrive in Illinois, New York, California, Colorado, and Maryland.
Any PP facilities torched and vandalized?
Abortion care? One of those phrases that is a contradiction in terms. Designed to make it sound like abortion is a good thing. Abortion procedures as in the headline is more cruelly neutral.
Abortion, even if actually performed to save the life of the prospective mother- which is the rarest actual reason, is violence.
"Many of you would prob support a law requiring sterilization or abortions for undocumented women, and no doubt the Supreme Court would be okay with it."
Actually that's a Progressive thing, Google Margaret Sanger and the eugenics movement.
jim5301 said...
I find it hard to believe that MAGA, who are in favor of withholding education and even food from undocumented immigrant children, who have done nothing wrong,
Wow, you really believe that kind of crap.
I'm all for sending them back, with their parents or to their parents, depending on whether they came with them, so the people responsible for them, their family, their country, can educate and feed them.
As quickly as possible, right after finding them, so they spend the least time away from their culture in this country you apparently hate.
Blogger jim5301 said...
I find it hard to believe that MAGA, who are in favor of withholding education and even food from undocumented immigrant children, who have done nothing wrong, really give a shit about the unborn
Another lefty mind reader. Do you guys take a class or something ?
Seems odd for an advocacy organization to not continue performing abortions so as to force the hands of government. I'd at least do one for a test case (helpful hint, choose to do an abortion where the fetus doesn't have a heartbeat, MUCH better optics).
Procedures.
Why is it that WI AG Kaul, a Democrat, and the Attorneys General under Obama and Biden, who all took an oath of office to support, defend, and enforce the US Constitution and US laws (and in Kaul’s case, the WI Constitution and WI laws), think that they can ignore those laws as well as work against those laws that they don’t like? If a GOP AG did that, the Dems and their propaganda arm in the MSM would make a big deal about that and demand these GOP AG’s do their job or else. I don’t know if Kaul can be impeached but hopefully, he can be defeated for re-election in November. Hell, Dem district attorney’s in large cities are refusing to do their job of enforcing laws they disagree with although LA’s Gascone was recently ordered by a judge to do just that - I won’t be holding my breath waiting for him to do so.
Surely PP can organize some buses to take clients to facilities over the state line? Or did they spend their whole travel budget sending protestors to DC?
Chris - Why don't you Google Hitler and the Holocaust? That's a right-wing thing.
"had to be canceled..." HAD TO!!!! of course,
Wisconsin Attorney General Josh] Kaul said he would not enforce the state's abortion ban
But "local officials" said that THEY would enforce a blockade, in order to rouse up public opinion
Just like in Texas. Just like Iowa..
There's No Reason to stop, EXCEPT! That it will motivate the troops.
Trouble IS, that it will motivate the other side's troops too.. And Meanwhile,
America Don't Care
There is no mystery in sex and conception. Women, and men, have four choices, and an equal right to self-defense through reconciliation. The wicked solution a.k.a. planned parenthood is neither a good nor exclusive choice.
Declining to prosecute is all very nice, but clinics performing an illegal procedure probably jeopardize their malpractice insurance, which for most if not all would be a deal breaker.
There's extensive statutory law in Wisconsin governing the availability of abortion. I seen to recall Ann mentioning this in an older post, but I can't find anything. Can you explain why the older law would abrogate the newer? Typically the opposite is true. This seems like political brinkmanship rather than a good-faith interpretation.
Not just Wisconsin. Not just 1849.
“After initially vowing to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, President Barack Obama quickly said it’s not his ‘highest legislative priority.’ That was in March 2009. Since then, it has scarcely been mentioned. A version of the bill was last introduced in Congress in 2007, and no new bill has appeared since.”
Procedures
To remove a cyst, a "burden", a carbon pollutant, a [human] life of color aborted for social, redistributive, clinical, and fair weather causes.
Really, with Kaul promising not to enforce a law he doesn't like and (according to Wisconsin Public Radio) Evers promising clemency to anyone convicted of breaking the law, what's the worry? And why are we bothering to have a legislature and actually pass laws in this state when apparently they only matter if the powers that be want to bother with them. We should just go straight to an absolute monarchy.
Cry bitches. Twenty-five years ago this decision would have been met with horror and a rush to kick out every Republican in office.
But the leftists and pro-abortionists went from safe, legal and rare to advocating killing a baby up to the moment of birth. They are the ones responsible for this ruling.
helpful hint, choose to do an abortion where the fetus doesn't have a heartbeat, MUCH better optics
Six weeks, a sesto or sextimester, to pumped, circulated blood and coherent nervous system function where baby meets granny in common state, if not direction.
How many births have been scheduled in Planned Parenthood maternity wards in Wisconsin? They do have maternity wards, don't they? For the "Parenthood" part of their operations?
"I find it hard to believe that MAGA, who are in favor of withholding* education and even food from undocumented immigrant children, who have done nothing wrong**, really give a shit about the unborn. Many of you would prob support a law requiring sterilization or abortions for undocumented women, and no doubt the Supreme Court would be okay with it."
And yet not a single right wing nutcase MAGA politician has even suggested such a thing.
Beware of the Bogeyman!
*"Withholding"="not paying for"
**I understand that we are talking about "children" (a substantial chunk of whom are males over the age of 15), but in most countries, including Mexico, it is illegal to enter without permission of the government.
“Wisconsin Attorney General Josh] Kaul said he would not enforce the state's abortion ban. Still, local law enforcement officials could choose to do so.”
Any other laws they will choose not to enforce?
This is pure lawlessness.
Recall the Left went wild when a clerk in KY refused to issue a SSM license. And judges who refused to perform SSM got in big trouble.
All these lawyers who are refusing to follow the law should be disbarred.
I see my answer to jim5301 did not pass moderation. Oh well. Plenty of lefty opinion here.
If Wisconsin Republicans were smart (and they're not), they would work with the Evers administration and pass legal abortion up to the 14th week. The none at all crowd won't be happy, and the infanticide crowd in Madison won't be happy either. But, it's a practicality.
And politically it would diffuse this before the November elections and give us a shot at getting Kenosha burning Evers out of office, and save Ron Johnson's seat.
As far as I'm concerned they can outlaw margarine again.
Shouldn't we worry about our own kids and babies Jim?? Why are you so upset about illegal immigrants anchor babies when women and children in America are suffering under this administration. We want ALL babies to be born...not torn apart and sold to the highest bidders like your side does. When we have no more homeless children, then I will worry about children people are funding to come here in droves because this administration told them they were welcome and screwed up our border so bad, that they are shipping them into small airports all over the country in the middle of the night.
Can Congress pass a law guaranteeing access to abortion nationally? The Senate just tried to pass such a law and it failed by one vote (Manchin's vote). Why is passing such a law not the primary focus of the pro-choice movement? (Yes, there is the filibuster, but it can be waived and has been waived repeatedly recently.)
jim5301 said - Many of you would prob support a law requiring sterilization or abortions for undocumented women, and no doubt the Supreme Court would be okay with it..
This is a delusional but conscious lie. Nobody supports this. People like Jimbo and zealots on the other side are the reason a reasonable, practical compromise can't be reached for legal abortions through 14 weeks.
As we look down our noses at the "rednecks" in Mississippi, they could pass 15 weeks. A week longer than the French, and three weeks longer than evil Russia. But...Wisconsin will tear itself apart like it did with Act 10.
Performative.
David Begley said Any other laws they will choose not to enforce?.
Yes. Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Kaul is not interested in enforcing Wisconsin's election laws.
I blame the Putin invasion and the Jan6 insurrection for distracting Americans away from the momentous importance of what was taking place at the Supreme Court.
"There's always some son-of-a-b**ch who doesn't get the word," John F. Kennedy
Wisconsin Republicans are idiots if they think they can ride out an 1849 ban. We have a chance to take out Evers this fall, and keep Ron Johnson in the Senate. If they stick with the pre-Civil War "abortion is a felony" law, the are going to lose the needed support of college educated women that can be siphoned off from the Dems because of high inflation in increased crime and violence.
Already 70 lives saved in just one state! Sounds good to me.
As far as I'm concerned they can outlaw margarine again.
I don't think that would cut down on abortions all that much. People would just use butter or mayonnaise or something.
It's quite instructive that jim5301 knew the constitutional argument for keeping Roe/Casey is non-existent and so he/she/xe moved IMMEDIATELY to invoking Hitler!
Gee, why didn't the pro-Roe laeyers arguing the case before the SC think of that?!
LOL
Lives saved in Wisconsin, over two days: Nearly 70.
Well this seems to provide a 50/50 balance. 70 folks are bothered and 70 are saved
A researcher on the spot would track these 70 women over the next 50 years. Do all find other access? Do all have broken lives? Will some see this looking back as a blessing? And if some babies are born instead will those 49 year olds wish they had not been born? I honestly don't know any of these answers but it seems like national or state policy should have the long term impact in mind.
The draft Dobbs opinion was leaked on May 2nd. Yesterday was June 25th. That’s 54 days that PP had to plan for and organize for this contingency. I know that there are women capable of planning and organizing because back before I retired I worked with plenty of female program managers, team leads, and engineers who displayed such skills. Why is PP lacking in women capable of thinking ahead?
According to Gallup the views of men and women on abortion have been remarkably similar from 1975 to 2020. Only since then has there been any appreciable difference, largely due to women becoming slightly more absolutist.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx
So I'm not sure how much of a difference it would've made in 1849 if women had been able to vote.
similar to vouchers for education / draft # for conscription : why not lottery for # of days of gestation till abortion get out of jail free cards for all birthing [and non] people
Christian pregnancy center in Colorado vandalized and burned following Roe v. Wade reversal
Antifa terrorists leave their symbol.
"jim5301 said...
I find it hard to believe that MAGA, who are in favor of withholding education and even food from undocumented immigrant children, who have done nothing wrong, really give a shit about the unborn. Many of you would prob support a law requiring sterilization or abortions for undocumented women, and no doubt the Supreme Court would be okay with it.
6/26/22, 10:01 AM"
Ann,
When did you stop moderating out hyperbole?
Sincerely,
Free Manure
"(helpful hint, choose to do an abortion where the fetus doesn't have a heartbeat, MUCH better optics)."
That's called stillbirth.
"Any other laws they will choose not to enforce?"
The murder of black folk by black folk frequently gets a pass.
"As far as I'm concerned they can outlaw margarine again."
Just what is that shit, exactly?
"Seems odd for an advocacy organization to not continue performing abortions so as to force the hands of government. I'd at least do one for a test case (helpful hint, choose to do an abortion where the fetus doesn't have a heartbeat, MUCH better optics)."
Sounds like the principled thing to do...until one considers the woman in the test case who would very possibly (if not certainly) be charged with a crime.
I'm "very concerned" about abortion policy. Any one with a strong opinion is very concerned. On either side of the policy.
Wisconsin has an election in November. The potential is there to change the majority. The November polls are the only ones that matter.
@ stupidjim
What the fuck does illegal immigration have to do with the subject at hand?
Gov. Tony Evers attempted to repeal the state's abortion ban prior to the SCOTUS decision. But Republican lawmakers rejected the special session Wednesday, gaveling in and out within seconds
Good for them. Negotiating when you don't know what's available is a stupid idea.
Now that Roe is actually gone, it looks like WI pols are going to have to engage in some actual negotiations. Were I the Wi GOP, I'd open the bidding with an abortion ban starting at 8 weeks, and make the Democrats counter.
I expect there are going to be a bunch of campaign ads this fall with 3d ultrasounds , an age in weeks, and "this is a baby"
It will be interesting to see which side overplays its hand more
jim5301 said...
I find it hard to believe that MAGA, who are in favor of withholding education and even food from undocumented immigrant children, who have done nothing wrong
They're here illegally, Jim.
That is wrong
They and their parents need to leave America, and go back to their own country.
A realize you're an amoral scum who has absolutely no respect of democracy and the rule of law, but do you really need to display it so openly?
The murder of black folk by black folk frequently gets a pass.
Hutu vs Tutsi
Mandela's Xhosa vs Zulu
Kenyan elite vs deplorables
Africans of Black vs Arab Libyans
After a draft opinion indicating the court was poised to overturn Roe was leaked, [Wisconsin Attorney General Josh] Kaul said he would not enforce the state's abortion ban
That sounds like insurrection to me.
It's amazing all the people who were so convinced it would have been morally wrong for VP Pence not to follow the law when it helped them, who are now ecstatically happy at a different elected official refusing to follow a law they dont' like.
It's almost like everything they say is bullshit
in 1849 if women had been able to vote
Women did have the right to vote.
Gerda Sprinchorn said...
Can Congress pass a law guaranteeing access to abortion nationally?
No, I'd not part of their enumerated powers, so not a federal issue
The Senate just tried to pass such a law and it failed by one vote (Manchin's vote)
No, it failed to break cloture by 11 votes
In addition to failing to make it to 60, it didn't even make it to 50, because it was an insane law.
Why is passing such a law not the primary focus of the pro-choice movement?
Because less than 20% of American voters favor unlimited abotion through the 3rd trimester, which is what the law demanded.
So it would be electoral suicide for the Dems to actually pass it
(Yes, there is the filibuster, but it can be waived and has been waived repeatedly recently.)
No, it hasn't, and no, it can't. Not without completely nuking it, and making sure that the GOP in 2025 can and will pass a national law outlawing abortion
You only get to skip the filibuster for budget items. Abortion law bans aren't budget items
jim5301 knew the constitutional argument for keeping Roe/Casey is non-existent and so he/she/xe moved IMMEDIATELY to invoking Hitler!
Abortion chambers, social justice alleging "Jew privilege", diversity [dogma], inequity, and exclusion (DIE) rites performed under a nominally secular ethical religion a la CCP's Great Leap forward.
Gusty Winds said...
Wisconsin Republicans are idiots if they think they can ride out an 1849 ban.
It was the 1973 ban, if it's going back into effect with the repeal of Roe.
Do I think WI needs something other than a total ban? Yes
Do I find the dishonesty about the law disgusting? Yes
The only way Dobbs brings an anti-abortion law beck into effect is if that law was the law in 1973. It doesn't' matter when it was passed, other than to show it was a long-standing law that the people of WI were happy with
Amazing. People may have to be as responsible with their sexual activities as they do with drinking.
Hypothetically, suppose one could safely remove a fetus from the mother and implant it in a surrogate. How many of you believe that Governor Kristi Noem would be willing to step up to the plate and play that role for a 14-year-old kid raped by her father?
Forcing her to carry that child to term is more abusive as the rape in the first place. And seriously, how many people are looking to adopt a baby the product of both a rape and incest? And maybe 15 years hence the kid will want to look up his birth mother.
Well, Jim5301, if you were on fire I wouldn't cross the street to piss on you, so there is that.
This is just all fake shit by the Left, but, if they are really serious about this, Evers can give out pre-emptive pardons for every abortion performed. Put up, or shut up.
Blogger jim5301 said...
Many of you would prob support a law requiring sterilization or abortions for undocumented women, and no doubt the Supreme Court would be okay with it..
By undocumented, I assume you mean "Illegal alien" to use the correct term.
If the woman is here illegally, I do not favor sterilization or abortion or spending any money on here at all. Ship her back home post haste. Ditto parents.
If the child was born in the US they are an American citizen. They, but not the mother, have a constitutionally guaranteed right to be here and remain here. If the mother, when deported, chooses to leave the child in the US, I can live with supporting that American citizen to adulthood, 18 years. But the mother is illegal and leaves.
John LGBTQ Henry
I’m so amazed the Stupid Party somehow outmaneuvered the Evil Party in organizing and planning for this day. Thank God that many preventative options are available to today’s young ladies, most covered by insurance.
Meme seen today on social media:
"Clarence Thomas,Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett will never enjoy another peaceful meal at a restaurant."
Two Minutes Hate, expanded version.
"Chris - Why don't you Google Hitler and the Holocaust? That's a right-wing thing."
You mean the guys who took the Progressive eugenics thing to it's logical conclusion? Yeah I have heard of them.
Is seventy a typical number of abortions performed on weekends?
It's not like PP didn't know this decision was coming. If I were them, I would have encouraged everyone who wanted an abortion to get it earlier. If it is important to the doctors and other employees as a human rights issue, they would have worked extra hours to get as many patients in as possible. (I know some women wouldn't have found out in time, but I'm sure there are plenty of others who could have been scheduled in.) Then I would have had activists who did not need/want an abortion to schedule one, knowing it would be cancelled. (Although that wouldn't even really be necessary. It's not like a journalist could demand to see the appointment schedule.)
I just don't trust "70" to be accurate. It's a nice number, high, but not so high that it would give even pro-abortion people pause.
I know that we aren't supposed to be repetitive, so let me take a different approach.
It is interesting that the abortion clinics are following the rule of law, but the Wisconsin AG and many county attorneys are ignoring the law of land.
With Dodds, the Left has shown America who they really are: anti-democratic fascists who rule by power.
If the Wisconsin State Bar doesn't discipline all of these lawyers, we are in big, big trouble. America is the governed by laws, not men.
I'm completely dumbfounded by this. Who do these lawyers think they are? Kings and queens? We fought a war over this issue.
Omaha1.
The Wisconsin women can drive to MN. Already the Nebraska abortion clinic is seeing out-of-state patients. Freedom to travel is a fundamental right.
There are going to be at least 70 people in Wisconsin who will owe their existence to a Supreme Court decision.
What a wonderful thing.
Rationalization not to enforce the law below. Discretion. Erode trust in the law. DDB: Erode trust in laws we don't like.
The reality is that one test case would compel compliance. No doctor wants to go to jail.
"As such, we decline to use our offices’ resources to criminalize reproductive health decisions and commit to exercise our well settled discretion and refrain from prosecuting those who seek, provide, or support abortions.
Prosecutors are entrusted with immense discretion. With this discretion comes the obligation to seek justice. And at the heart of the pursuit of justice is the furtherance of policies and practices that protect the well-being and safety of all members of our community.
Prosecutors make decisions every day about how to allocate limited resources and which cases to prosecute. Indeed, our communities have entrusted us to use our best judgment in deciding how and if to leverage the criminal legal system to further the safety and well-being of all, and we are ethically bound to pursue those interests in every case.
Enforcing abortion bans runs counter to the obligations and interests we are sworn to uphold. It will erode trust in the legal system, hinder our ability to hold perpetrators accountable, take resources away from the enforcement of serious crime, and inevitably lead to the retraumatization and criminalization of victims of sexual violence.
Criminalizing abortion will not end abortion; it will simply end safe abortions...."
@Gerda asked, "Can Congress pass a law guaranteeing access to abortion nationally?" That's a good question. Any such law would have to rest on the commerce clause. Does the commerce clause give the Federal government the power to regulate local medical practice? A few years ago, I would have thought that conservatives would say no, and liberals would say yes, but those positions may be reversed now. I harbor the faint hope that if and when this case comes up (or the contrary one where Congress passes a law outlawing abortion nationally), the Court will start the long and necessary project of limiting the Federal government's powers under the commerce clause and hold that Congress has no such power.
Something about these clinic shutdowns reminds me of when the National Parks and Monuments were shuttered during the budget sequester in 2013. No doubt it's a tactic to gin up support for the pro-abortion candidates in the midterms. Expect tons of news coverage of the closures.
Dave Begley said...
Already the Nebraska abortion clinic is seeing out-of-state patients. Freedom to travel is a fundamental right.
ASSUMING, that is; that you've got your Covid Vaccination papers.
While a womb persons Right To Chose lets her Murder innocent children..
NO ONE thinks that it gives a person the right to Not take experimental gene therapy "vaccines"
jim5301 said...
for a 14-year-old kid raped by her father?
Of the 14 year old incest cases.. How many resulted in pregnancies last year?
Of THOSE, how many were aborted? NUMBERS Please
"(unless it is needed to save the woman's life)."
I'm surprised that PP has not yet discovered that all of them are not necessary to save the woman's life. Since one must assume that the risk of death need not be anywhere near 100% to qualify, surely some creative legal reasoning could come up with something?
Pro abortion advocates should stop the violence and insanity and get on with puting 15 weeks on the ballot of every state where applicable. Try democracy instead of terrorism.
The abortion industry could have avoided all this if they hadn't been so extreme in demanding late 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions. They claim that the majority of people in the US favor "abortion", but when you break that down, there is only a very small minority that favor 3rd trimester. I think most people feel that abortion should be done as early as possible, but if you can't make your mind up by 20 weeks, then there is something very wrong going on.
jim5301,
Hypothetically, suppose one could safely remove a fetus from the mother and implant it in a surrogate.
If that were possible, the entire "need" for abortion would vanish (apart from rare things like ectopic pregnancies) essentially overnight. As people have repeatedly, abortion is fundamentally a way to make a pregnant woman "not-pregnant" with little risk to herself. It is not, repeat, not, a right to a dead fetus. It is functionally (though not perhaps emotionally) irrelevant to to the "procedure," so long as the woman emerges not-pregnant. And if she is no longer pregnant, all "ownership" of "her body" is irrelevant.
I have no more idea than you whether Kristi Noem would take on the child of a 14-year-old victim of incestuous rape. But I guarantee you that lots of female opponents of abortion would, just as they willingly take on the few Down Syndrome children that manage to make it through the existing gantlet of "helpful advice" from loved ones, "friends," nurses, physicians and the like and manage to survive until birth.
You know those families, right? The ones who take on unwanted children from desperately poor countries as their own; the ones who bear their own Down Syndrome kids and love them w/o regard to their disability. The ones, in fact, just like ACB.
There would be no lack of loving homes for any of them. Possibly this is why abortion proponents are universally averse to fetal transplants, or for that matter artificial wombs. So much easier just to rend the annoying critter limb from limb and then throw the "products of conception" into the medical waste bin with the rest of the garbage.
"It's almost like everything they say is bullshit"
Almost?
MadTownGuy,
Yes, exactly. Just like having guards put up traffic cones (real guards, drawing real salaries!) around the place where you could park and view Mount Rushmore. Or carefully (and, again, expensively) closing off the informational displays on the National Mall so that no one could look at them. Not that they were ordinarily manned in the first place, but we must rub the dirty rotten American public's nose in the stench of the sequester. The fear, obviously, was that without such visible signs, most Americans wouldn't have known for months that the Federal Government was shut down at all.
"Freedom to travel is a fundamental right."
Not if Democrats get their way (see: covid19).
"Ann,
When did you stop moderating out hyperbole?
Sincerely,
Free Manure"
I remember when Althouse would delete the first comment if it was trollish. I guess that doesn't apply if the comment denigrates conservatives.
Wow. I really did not expect this, and perhaps that means I was asleep. I thought, the median American supports limited abortion, up to 15 weeks or whatever they have in Belgium, so that's probably what Republicans will end us up with.
Instead, quite a number of states with trigger laws that completely forbid abortion, now or in a month.
Are they completely nuts? What do they think is going to happen next? Well, I think that what will happen next is that a whole lot of reliably red states are going to shift suddenly bluer, because that is far from what the median voter wants, even in those conservative red states.
And I don't know: Can Republican politicians fix it, right now before the election? Or are they afraid of their base and don't dare touch it?
In the case of "abortions to save the life of the mother", it usually happens closer to end of term. If an expectant mother is in that much distress, are they really going to go to an abortion clinic?
They're much more likely to go to a regular hospital and then have emergency surgery there. Even then, if the baby is healthy, there is absolutely no reason to kill it while removing it. I've said it many times here, but it doesn't matter whether it comes out dead or alive, as long as it is out.
As I said before Evers should call another special session now that the Dobbs decision is a fact and force everyone to take a position prior to the election. It will certainly flush out the 'no-abortion" posturers and should also flush out the "kill 'em anytime" crew. Failure to seek a solution that appeals to the majority of the citizenry will mean the loss of a legislative seat.
@jim5301
Assuming a 14-15 week abortion limit, why would it take a woman 4 months to decide if she wanted to abort under those circumstances?
I don't understand why there is resignment on the part of pro-choicers; moving to blue states instead of fighting to keep abortion legal in red states?
I remember Wendy Davis - the OG RBG for Texas. Where is she? I'm surprised that there was not much protest when Abbott signed SB8 in March of last year.
jim5301 said...
How many of you believe that Governor Kristi Noem would be willing to step up to the plate and play that role for a 14-year-old kid raped by her father?
Forcing her to carry that child to term is more abusive as the rape in the first place.
Letting her father get her an abortion, and thus keeping his rape covered up, so he can continue raping her, is pretty much the most vile and evil choice around.
You will note the number of people who love that position
“Another lefty mind reader. Do you guys take a class or something ?“
class? They have no class.
jim5301 said.."for a 14-year-old kid raped by her father?"
Although I am pro-life, I understand in government compromises must be made and believe if the baby of a rapist or an incestor (spelling?) is to be aborted, so should the man be executed. The baby's DNA will say who the person is, and what woman lies about such a thing? Remember to believe all women.
Heyboom - A 14-15 week abortion limit is reasonable and responsible. Unfortunately in about 1/2 the states abortions will be outlawed beginning week 1.
jim5301 said...
Hypothetically, suppose one could safely remove a fetus from the mother and implant it in a surrogate. How many of you believe that Governor Kristi Noem would be willing to step up to the plate and play that role...
This is 2022; men can get pregnant, too. Time for you to step up to the plate and be a surrogate there, buddy.
Greg said: "You only get to skip the filibuster for budget items. Abortion law bans aren't budget items"
I thought the fillibuster was waived for at least one recent Supreme Court nomination. Is that correct?
Some wonder why the push for on-demand abortion up to DOB. The obvious trail leads to PP, who fund democrats to be single issue 100% zealots. So why does PP prefer late- and full-term “donations?” Probably there’s more money in bigger fully developed parts. After all it’s just business for PP. Big business.
@jim5301
Illegal now, but open to future legislation.
I spent a summer in DC in '76 and wanted to watch a Senate debate after work. Bill on ban on federal funding of abortion. Dems asked about rape and incest. NC Freshman Jesse Helms retorted that such pregnancies were so rare he would pay for those abortions out of his own pocket. That's when I learned that members of Congress could revise the transcript as they saw fit before Congressional Record published. That retort omitted.
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...
[jim5301,
Hypothetically, suppose one could safely remove a fetus from the mother and implant it in a surrogate.]
"If that were possible, the entire "need" for abortion would vanish (apart from rare things like ectopic pregnancies) essentially overnight. As people have repeatedly, abortion is fundamentally a way to make a pregnant woman "not-pregnant" with little risk to herself. It is not, repeat, not, a right to a dead fetus. It is functionally (though not perhaps emotionally) irrelevant to to the "procedure," so long as the woman emerges not-pregnant. And if she is no longer pregnant, all "ownership" of "her body" is irrelevant."
I believe the cries for "women's health" and "reproductive choice" are but a cover for the real motive for promoting abortion as a solution. The real motive is population control, part of the larger strategy for accruing more power to the State at the expense of individual rights.
70 in one day at one place?
Is this Democrat Bill's idea of "rare"?
Gerda Sprinchorn said...
Greg said: "You only get to skip the filibuster for budget items. Abortion law bans aren't budget items"
I thought the fillibuster was waived for at least one recent Supreme Court nomination. Is that correct?
Once there was one filibuster, for any action other than passing the budget
In 2013 the Democrats decided to split it into 3:
1: All nomination other than to SCOTUS
2: Nominations to SCOTUS
3: All bills other than budget bills
They then eliminated it for 1, but kept it for 2 and 3
In 2017, when the Democrats filibustered Gorsuch, the GOP eliminated it for 2
So now there are only filibusters for bills that aren't budget bills. But you can't just "waive" it for one law that you like. Because once you've done that, the other side's voters will not accept the other Sid not doing the same when there's a bill the other side likes that's being filibustered
The Dems grew to really regret that they nuked the filibuster for nominations 1st, because it meant they had no power to obstruct any of Trump's nominations
So I will be utterly shocked if they chose to nuke the filibuster for laws any time this year
jim5301 said...
Heyboom - A 14-15 week abortion limit is reasonable and responsible. Unfortunately in about 1/2 the states abortions will be outlawed beginning week 1.
So, Jim, is it "unfortunate" that in States with roughly 1/3 the US population, that "reasonable and responsible" abortion limit will be ignored, and babies will be killed up until birth?
Or are laws only "reasonable and responsible" to the extend that they allow abortion, rather than to the extent that they save the lives of defenseless children?
I said yesterday... 👆🏽
"There are going to be at least 70 people in Wisconsin who will owe their existence to a Supreme Court decision."
That should've read 'There are going to be at most 70 people...'
Sadly, I don't expect all of them to make it. 😞
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