२८ जून, २०२२
"In the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision overturning Roe v. Wade, former vice president Mike Pence says abortion should be banned nationwide..."
"... and is planning behind the scenes to focus on the issue in the coming weeks, according to advisers.... On Friday, Pence’s organization, Advancing American Freedom, shared a video highlighting that record.... Some Republican strategists called the end of Roe an opportunity for Pence.... 'He just needs an issue set that he can really dig into that’s not about January 6 or Trump or anything,' said Republican strategist David Kochel, who has worked on six presidential campaigns. 'He’s comfortable talking about [abortion],' he added.
But Kochel said Trump still has the simplest message to voters about the Supreme Court ruling: 'You’re welcome.'... Trump spokesman Taylor Budowich on Friday disputed that Trump has privately expressed misgivings about overturning Roe.... Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R)... said in a recent statement that the state would 'work to expand pro-life protections' but did not chart out specifics.... Former secretary of state Mike Pompeo called for increased support for pregnancy care centers, organizations that counsel people against abortions and provide them with resources..... Nikki Haley... said in a statement that she hopes for 'a renewed commitment from elected lawmakers to support and protect mothers and their pre-born babies.'"
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Aw hell, Mike! Why go there?
Never mind.
Yeah a candidate def needs some kind of hobby horse to ride into office. And so much mischief wrought thereby.
Never mind those states' rights. Definite Fugitive Slave Act vibe.
Good luck with that, Mike.
Jeepers. People are nuts. I really think Republicans could use this as an opportunity to lose the midterms. Completely unforced error. Let's fail to add abortion restrictions and at the same time convince the median voter that we do not represent him or her at all.
Why can't Pence just run on "I was honored to serve as Vice President under President Trump in an innovative administration that achieved great progress; but as the last two disastrous years have shown us so vividly, electing a President who is simply too old for the job -- who is faltering mentally -- courts catastrophe for our nation. And Donald Trump will simply be too old for us to risk it in 2024."
(Pence is 63, despite the white hair.)
WaPo desperately trying to make Nikki Haley happen...
No way. I am anti-abortion but the issues with Roe v Wade aren't resolved by just making a reverse Roe v Wade. That's just doubling down on the mistakes of the first opinion.
Plus, Pence is exactly the wrong face the R party needs now. The opposition thinks we want to establish a Christian theocracy and put all the women in red robes and white hats or whatever, and that is ludicrous. Don't play into their game by implying that you'd have no problems with a Christian theocracy
Roe was overturned because Roe was a terrible decision based on faulty logic that undermines the entire essence of Constitutional Law. It could have positive ramifications for the rest of US history, if we let it. Be happy with the win, a win none of us ever thought we'd see in our lifetimes. Don't ruin it
This is one reason I don't think Pence is viable nationally. I thought this before, just because he really is the Christian conservative of liberal strawmen in a way that Trump and even Bush II weren't. In the post-Roe environment, that's only exacerbated. DeSantis is apparently out there supporting a ban on discretionary abortions after 15 weeks, incompatible with the extremist framework of Roe v. Wade, but roughly in line with other developed countries, and also roughly in line with US public opinion. The news reports on Pence that I have seen don't state clearly what he means by "ban," but my impression from earlier comments he has made on the subject is that for him, "ban" really does mean "ban," and that's a minority position in the US, maybe 25% (as opposed to 60-70% support for banning after ~15 weeks).
I like Pence in general, but if he goes all-in with promoting an outright ban abortion, nationwide, he's toast as any sort of viable candidate. There has to be a middle ground, some "give" by the pro-lifers, or this s**t will never end. If there is a God in heaven who is displeased with abortion, let Him sort things out when the time comes.
"...Pence’s organization, Advancing American Freedom...." is dedicated to restricting American freedom.
No surprise, of course.
You see that crap? That is precisely the sort of puritanical Republican pablum that will guarantee they lose from here on in, and remain comfortable on the back bench. Pissing off 95% of the Independent voters and 55% of the Republican ones, all in favor of their church families - 15% of the Republican base. The Republicans do it to themselves (and the rest of us) every single time. And then they cap it off by passing crap like this Gun Control bill that they just snuck through in the dead of night, 48 hours from crafting to signing, and no review from their constitutents.
Well, on second thought...
A choice not an echo!
Never underestimate the ability of Joe…er…Republicans to f$@& things up.
Pence isn't going to get ANY support from Trump supporters which is still the lion's share of the GOP base. His failure to face the voter fraud in the 2020 election was cowardly and will never be forgotten by the base. The fraud in WI, AZ, GA, PA, and MI were real and he sold us out, betrayed us all and sent us into these shit conditions of 2022.
Beyond that, the Trump base is NOT for a nationwide ban on abortions. They are more pragmatic and reasonable and would support a 14 to 15 week limit. Just like Mississippi and the same is being floated by Governor Ron DeSantis of FL. He's got his finger on the pulse of everything.
Although at the moment Trump is the King Maker with success in GOP primary endorsements. He is Moses and will not see the promised land of a second term. A lot of it has to do with Trump's insistence that the "vaccine" is a real vaccine. DeSantis and the Trump base know it is not, and it too is a fraud.
DeSantis is Joshua. If there is a chance at sanity, DeSantis is the one to lead all of us wondering in the desert to the promised land. In addition he's young and in his mid 40's. I believe the nation is getting sick of these baby boomers holding on to power into their 80s. Time to move on. Pass the torch. Retire for God's sake.
Pence proved himself cowardly and stupid on Jan 6th, and will do so again with this nation wide abortion ban. He's a low single digit primary candidate. It's Trump vs DeSantis with any establishment candidate WAY on the outside.
Just more Republican party nonsense. They always get fooled by WORDS, when all that matters is ACTION. Trump said he would put only Conservative justices on the SCOTUS and he did. bush didn't. Bush's father didn't. Roberts didnt' want to overrule Roe, and Souter was as liberal as Ginsberg.
Ford was another fake. He appointed liberal Stevens, and he told Pat Buchanan he'd appoint more "moderates" just like him if elected in 76. Of course, on the campaign trial he pretended to be "pro-life". Even Reagan gave us unqualifed O'Connor, who refused to overturn Roe.
So, I don't care what they say, all that matters is what they do.
RINOS always fuck everything up. Why would he throw a wrench into the race NOW, when we don't need to push people away. THIS is why I am NOT a Republican.
Pence isn't going anywhere. He was a nobody before Trump picked him, and his betrayal of the Trump voters, didnt earn him any Nevertrumper support. So, who are his voters? People who don't like Trump but liked Pence? Those can fit in a phonebooth.
Pence was on the way to political oblivion in Indiana when Manafort rescued him and screwed Christie.
Pence is making a strong move for the coveted Mike Huckabee coalition.
The brilliant thing about Federalism, with its substantial differences between governance in California, for instance, and Georgia, is that people can select the governance that is most congenial to their tastes, with the simple aid of a moving van.
If I decided that living close to a thriving hobo-camp was just the thing for me, I could pick up and move out to LA or San Fran, and be happy as a clam. If everything was forced to be the same, from state to state, people won't be able to seek out their own ideal situation.
Plus, the contrasts in results from one state to another helps illuminate the consequences of the political choices we make. Raise taxes through the roof, and tax-paying people flee for less-taxing environments. Lesson learned.
So, make most decisions on the state level, not the national. The Republican party needs to keep that in mind.
Go away, Mike.
Plus, Pence is exactly the wrong face the R party needs now.
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he could be the insider that D are paying to destroy R : remember he accepts being cheated out in 2020
Governor Youngkin of Virginia, who has some potential as a VP candidate, has called for a 15-week limit (with the usual exceptions for non-consent and the mother's life).
Can someone advise Mr. Pence that the point of Dobbs is that abortion is an issue to be decided at the state level.
This >is the WaPoo, so it may be, dare I say?, misinformation.
How could a nationwide ban on abortion be seen as within the powers of the federal government? Under what power of the government would such an enactment be regarded "necessary and proper"? The Commerce Clause? (No!)
This is a big mistake on Pence's part. It's out of step with the judicial philosophy of the Supreme Court's conservative majority. It aims to make abortion a federal issue again even before the lifeless corpse of Roe has had a chance to reach room temperature. And proposing such an unconstitutional measure cuts against Pence's own brand, since these days he's mostly (in)famous for insisting that the constitutional proprieties (i.e., in the electoral process) must be adhered to come hell or high water.
If Pence wants to make abortions illegal, he should work on the problem state by state or try for a constitutional amendment.
Pence is an idiot. Different states have different views on this issue. Federalism.
Pence has no chance to be POTUS.
Pence seems to think that most republicans want revenge for Roe, and the slow creep from safe and rare, to 9 months in the birth canal is just fine.
He's wrong. Abortion isn't a right to be found in the constitution. It is a terrible thing, that may be necessary at times.
That is why most people seem to support abortion, with limits.
What those limits are, is something we are working out within our country.
People who are upset with Pence wanting a complete ban should be upset with abortion tourism, and ending life minutes before birth.
there is a compromise, and we will get there. But it is made more difficult with a Press that consistently lies and promotes leftist narratives.
We need a state by state debate on when equal protection begins for a life. This is an intensely difficult question but it’s one we have to wrestle with. We’re dealing a space where two lives have competing rights to their life and the decision is final. We don’t need the federal government fixing this for us. We need to tackle this state by state as a people and wrestle with this intensely difficult question.
Pence has never had good political sense. When he was Governor of Indiana he caved on the RFRA when some corporation threatened to boycott the state. Trump is amazing at how he senses public sentiment. Pence is a routine midlevel politician.
No Mike Pence abortion should not be banned nationwide [by whom]. It is the job of each State's Legislature to decide the abortion issue - pro or con. One size fits all doesn't work. That's why I was against the 'Roe' decision by SCOTUS. It is not the job of the Courts to legislate. The 'Roe' decision did just that - bowed to a bunch of Activists and here we are back to the beginning. And we are seeing daily violence because of this decision. Vote in Legislatures who support your decision and then get a law passed. That's the way its supposed to work in the USA. Shortcuts are nice for a time but never last! BTW, for you haters - I support abortion.
I truly don't understand why everyone always says "rapeorincest" like it's one word. Why is unforced incest privileged wrt abortion?
"How could a nationwide ban on abortion be seen as within the powers of the federal government?"
A federal law defining a fetus at any stage of development as a "person" and thus entitled to all Constitutional protections would do it.
Also, if he wants to ban all abortions (I don't know if he does or doesn't, the story doesn't support the headline) then he should drop the vague BS about "the sanctity of life" and come out and say so.
Looks more like he's chasing a revenue stream.
[Elective] Abortion!... The wicked solution! What is it good for? Social, redistributive, clinical, and fair weather causes of special, peculiar, feminist, masculinist, and government interests. Keep women, and girls, who lack dignity and agency, affordable, available, and taxable.
Can they abort the baby, cannibalize her profitable parts, sequester her carbon pollutants, and have her, too? Apparent, they can, in a minority cohort. Forward!
I will give Pence credit for being true to his beliefs. However, I do not share those beliefs, neither do most Americans.
Pence has no chance going forward. He may split off Evangelicals from the Republican Party if he pushes the anti-abortion agenda. You can be sure that the Democrat media machine will publicize him like crazy.
"Should be"? Yes. Killing innocent human beings is an atrocity and crime against humanity.
Does Congress possess the constitutional power to protect all prenatal human life? No.
Pence knows that or will soon realize it.
Does this mean that Pence no longer has that Strange New Respect?
The basic test for a national ban on abortion (for that matter codifying Roe) is that can you pass and ratify an amendment to the constitution, if yes go at it, otherwise don’t bother. We aren’t there and Pence is an idiot. Let the states do their own thing and work on winning hearts and minds.
I think this article references something my husband was talking about this morning: some chick tweeted that Mike Pence supported a total abortion ban, which he has not actually said. Her tweet was retweeted tends of thousands of times. Eventually she withdrew it and apologized, since he didn't actually say that - an action that was retweeted like a few hundred times. And WaPo used her original tweet as the basis for a story.
It is also possible that this is NOT what my husband was telling me about. I just don't see Pence as having the juice for a successful presidential run, so I am being too lazy to track down the story.
Thanks, Michael K. I was just about to search for the Indiana moment when Pence caved. He has a history of big talk and little walk.
He's just what the Left wants: a villain straight out of central casting. He'll never be POTUS, but he can cause a lot of mischief in the meantime.
Regulating abortion is not within the powers of Congress properly understood. It’s not necessary and proper legislation to further the power to regulate post roads or copyrights.
Pence wasn’t even a good governor.
I’m not interested in a federal solution. My preference for my jurisdiction is restricted access, but I don’t support a ban. Mostly, this isn’t a top priority for me. So, if Pence thinks a national ban on abortion is a top priority; he doesn’t interest me.
What is the point of having editors if the phrase “in the wake of” isn’t deleted?
Worse than “in the aftermath,” which is terrible.
Re: Nancy:
I truly don't understand why everyone always says "rapeorincest" like it's one word. Why is unforced incest privileged wrt abortion?
I can't speak for the people saying this, but I think there's some doubt as to whether you can really distinguish "unforced" incest, given familial emotional and power dynamics. I.e., most incest is effectively a form of rape, so some people may think it's better to carve it all out entirely than ask prosecutors, judges, and juries to tease out whether it's really "unforced" or not. I think that in most US states incest is similarly a crime for which proof of consent is irrelevant, somewhat like statutory rape of a minor, so there's a symmetry there.
Pence is useless, but he might get a little more support than low energy Jeb.
I know, low bar.
Blogger mccullough said...
What is the point of having editors if the phrase “in the wake of” isn’t deleted?
Worse than “in the aftermath,” which is terrible
Going forward it shouldn’t be a problem…
Total abortion ban will destroy Republicans like Pence. That's not where the country is. 12-15 weeks seems to be where most people are. Republicans are being very stupid. Now their abortion stances matter. In the past, there was a floor in Roe about how much their opinion mattered. But Pence will be a nice lightening rod for the crazies on the Left.
wndybar.
I don't think anyone is taking him seriously. He's a non starter. People saw how he stabbed his boss in the back. Voters remember that stuff.
Pence is not a just a worthless coward.
He is a negative just like the rest of the national republican politicians.
This is not a federal issue. Period.
Mike Pence got Gen. Flynn fired. That started the domino effect that led us to where we are now. Biden in the White House.
And yes, I blame Trump for yielding to Pence.
Never trust WaPo, the NYT et al when it is a question of one of the basic moral issues (or a GOP politician, either, however 'real' he or she may be). All of this about Pence's desire to impose a nationwide ban on procured abortion seems to derive from the Breitbart article in which he was quoted as saying:
Now that Roe v. Wade has been consigned to the ash heap of history, a new arena in the cause of life has emerged, and it is incumbent on all who cherish the sanctity of life to resolve that we will take the defense of the unborn and the support for women in crisis pregnancy centers to every state in America. Having been given this second chance for Life, we must not rest and must not relent until the sanctity of life is restored to the center of American law in every state in the land.
Say what you will about Mr Pence's rhetoric, it seems clear to me that he is talking about arguing for the 'best' anti-abortion law in each state, not a federal law. But I am not up for doing November and presidential politics yet and Mr Pence would not be my candidate if I were i.e. I mean that I haven't looked about to see if perhaps he has talked somewhere about a federal legislative ban.
Thank you Balfegor! Two good explanations.
Since abortion can't be stopped where Dems rule, the better policy from a political, not moral, point of view would be to have all the baby killers and their clientele gather in blue states. You know, along with the illegals flocking to amnesty cities and the other criminals following "defund the police" policies.
This same court would shoot down a nation wide abortion ban, and for the same reason they shot down Roe v Wade. It's not authorized by the constitution.
1. Personally, I'm an antiabortion absolutist. Save the life of the mother? OK. Rape or incest? The unborn child didn't commit a crime; punish those who did, but don't execute the child.
2. But we live in a federal republic, and what was wrong with Roe and Casey (and much else) was the arrogance of a federal institution imposing its opinions/values on everyone.
3. The federal government imposing anti-abortion rules on the sovereign States would be no more appropriate than the feds imposing pro-abortion rules on them.
4. Pence served as a colorless vice president to Trump. I don't think he's the one to lead a constitutional crusade against abortion. If that's what you're looking for, find a leader who could stand in front of an empty stage and not disappear.
The Republicans will find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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