"... which in turn acts as the emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival mechanism. [Ernest Becker, the author of this Pulitzer Prize-winning 1973 book] argues that a basic duality in human life exists between the physical world of objects and biology, and a symbolic world of human meaning. Thus, since humanity has a dualistic nature consisting of a physical self and a symbolic self, we are able to transcend the dilemma of mortality by focusing our attention mainly on our symbolic selves, i.e. our culturally-based self esteem, which Becker calls 'heroism': a 'defiant creation of meaning' expressing 'the myth of the significance of human life' as compared to other animals.... Humanity's traditional 'hero-systems,' such as religion, are no longer convincing in the age of reason. Becker argues that the loss of religion leaves humanity with impoverished resources for necessary illusions. Science attempts to serve as an immortality project, something that Becker believes it can never do because it is unable to provide agreeable, absolute meanings to human life. The book states that we need new convincing 'illusions' that enable us to feel heroic in ways that are agreeable...."
From the Wikipedia article, "The Denial of Death," a book title that sprang to mind when I saw the news that the U.S. government is going to stop requiring daily reports of the number of Covid deaths.
This is the book Alvy Singer wanted Annie Hall to read:
That excerpt makes it sound much better than I remember it. Too much "Freudian bullsh*t". I'd be interested to see what a modern psychologist could do with similar ideas.
Speaking of "a 'defiant creation of meaning' expressing 'the myth of the significance of human life' as compared to other animals" — it should be noted that Annie is thinking of buying what Alvy disparagingly calls "that cat book." Maybe she was on a *higher* level, seeing a kinship with the other animals, while Alvy still strained to find a way to deny death.
Inasmuch as people realize it's an illusion it is unconvincing. People need genuine hope. Or they need substantive despair. Politics feeds on and variously encourages both.
Uncannily, that synopsis of 'Denial of Death' describes what I've been thinking and saying about Joe Biden's view of himself in the world: what we used to call 'a hero in his own mind.'
Thus, since humanity has a dualistic nature consisting of a physical self and a symbolic self, we are able to transcend the dilemma of mortality by focusing our attention mainly on our symbolic selves, i.e. our culturally-based self esteem, which Becker calls 'heroism': a 'defiant creation of meaning' expressing 'the myth of the significance of human life' as compared to other animals...
It's only gotten exponentially worse as Biden has gotten older. A huge problem for Biden, however, was the political base he made his Faustian bargain with for the presidency has widely rejected the religious and classical liberal values he notionally espoused all his life.
Humanity's traditional 'hero-systems,' such as religion, are no longer convincing in the age of reason. Becker argues that the loss of religion leaves humanity with impoverished resources for necessary illusions.
So, where does Biden turn? The phony scientism of the left.
Science attempts to serve as an immortality project, something that Becker believes it can never do because it is unable to provide agreeable, absolute meanings to human life. The book states that we need new convincing 'illusions' that enable us to feel heroic in ways that are agreeable.
As a life-long legislator of the Senate, Biden never had to confront the duality in any practical sense. Biden the executive (notice how that title doesn't really fit the man) is caught right now between reconciling his "illusion" with the "physical" reality of results, as a means of struggling with his mortality and legacy.
How far does this go in explaining Biden's repeated failures in policy, leadership and governance?
Ann, I see the fear of death all over the USA and Europe, but not in India, China, or Japan. My theory is: a majority of the people in Asia still believe in a religion. Certainly most Indians are religious. Japan still seems very Buddhist to me, though polls of the Japanese do not show strong feelings for any religion. China is the big unknown. It is a fact that the Chinese Communist Party was strongly against any religion from its founding in 1921. However, modern Chinese seem similar to Chinese from before World War II, they ACT like they believe. As one Chinese man I know said, “I hope the after life is true, but I don’t think it’s true.” This belief without certainty is something Luther wrote about in his private letters 500 years ago. Today, family members of true cadres of the CCP still perform rituals of mourning which are based on traditional beliefs. Another theory of mine is that if Europeans and Americans do not embrace a religion, their civilization will collapse, because without religion, life is meaningless, and death looms over all.
Note the date for the dismissal of religion as no longer convincing in the age of "reason," with its arrogance and ignorance in believing that faith and reason are incompatible. But the unstated point has a point, that the existentialism of the last 150 years has really caused serious injury to society and people's loss of understanding and meaning in life.
gilbar said... Alvy Singer ?? Isn't he the guy, that married his adopted step daughter? ************* Is he the same guy who starred in that movie, "Honey, I Shtupped the Kids!"?
And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” Luke 23.42-43
I believe there is life after this life because Jesus did. But I know followers of Jesus who do not, who believe this earthly life is all there is. So be it. We will find out one way or another. I trust that my end will be more than an oven. I don't know if it will be paradise, but I will receive whatever divine love gives.
On another note, the film clip reminded me of days long ago when I visited book stores and bought books in them. I seldom do this now. The last time I was in a bookstore, it was striking how desolate it was, with almost no one shopping there.
I am far from hostile to religion, for many of the reasons Becker discusses. (I read "Denial" when it came out.)
But I cannot for the life of me understand how Christians, Jews and Muslims think that God bestows particular blessings on them and has chosen "prophets" to speak on his behalf.
We know now with certainty that planets abound in this Universe. On those with intelligent beings---and statistically there have to be bazillions---are they all "fallen" and require divine redemption?
if this is all there is it's a miserable lot, how will you know unless you come and tell us, Us Christians there has to be something more, Christ decomplexified what the lawgivers had overburdened, Mohammed comes along and says essentially this level of detail was right, but the Jews are wrong,
why is Annie Hall laughing? He's not funny. Oh right, its woody's movie.
The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling, For you but not for me. And the little devils have a sing-a-ling-a-ling, For you but not for me. Oh death where is they sting-a-ling-a-ling, Oh grave thy victory? The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling, For you but not for me.
Yeah, not a Woody fan, much. For a droopy little shit, he’s got such condescending attitude. But then- I don’t really know b/c I don’t watch b/c… not a fan.
I’m going to stick to Peterson- he’s got such a wealth of information to listen to … and re-listen to lol. He talks of these same subjects, w/growing humility. He, also, is a good Professor.
An old fashioned Orange Creamsicle, eaten on a hot summer afternoon, is a wonderful example of the duality of the physical self and the symbolic self. Both leave you in a sticky mess if you aren't quick and careful.
"Another theory of mine is that if Europeans and Americans do not embrace a religion, their civilization will collapse, because without religion, life is meaningless, and death looms over all."
Life is meaningless, which means only that we must find or create our own meaning in our lives, (assuming one needs to feel there is a meaning to life). This is the reason religions exist in all human societies throughout history, (as far as we know). Whether one embraces a religious faith or not, death does loom over all. Civilizations do collapse. The question is whether other civilizations will arise after ours has perished. There's no reason sentient, civilization-building creatures must exist or will survive (or arise again) on the earth. If we truly believe civilization must survive, only we can take the steps necessary to improve the chances of that.
"The last time I was in a bookstore, it was striking how desolate it was, with almost no one shopping there."
This is true. It's also tragic there are so few good bookstores around anymore, with the big-box Barnes and Noble being the closest to "good" one can find in many towns and cities, (in those cities that even have B & N).
"Woody Allen Married His 27-Year-Old Step-Daughter...."
She was not his step-daughter. She was the adopted daughter of his girlfriend, whom he never married or even lived with. This does not lessen the degree of Allen's selfishness in entering into a relationship with her.
Coincidence: today I picked up Old Snow Just Melting, a book of essays by poet Marvin Bell. It has two epigraphs, and the first is from Becker's Denial of Death -- so now, after never giving it a glance before, I've encountered it twice in one day. Here's the passage Bell cites:
"One of the ironies of the creative process is that it partly cripples itself in order to function. I mean that, usually, in order to turn out a piece of work the author has to exaggerate the emphasis of it, to oppose it in a forcefully competitive way to other versions of truth; and he gets carried away by his own exaggeration, as his distinctive image is built on it. But each honest thinker who is basically an empiricist has to have some truth in his position, no matter how extremely he has formulated it. The problem is to find the truth underneath the exaggeration, to cut away the excess elaboration or distortion and include that truth (elsewhere) where it fits."
"This does not lessen the degree of Allen's selfishness in entering into a relationship with her."
The last thing i want to do is defend an amoral pervy oddball like Woody. But... I don't think there was any selfishness involved. Soon-yi was adopted at age 9, she was Korean, and she didn't particularly like Mia Farrow. She got involved with Woody when she was 20.
People like Mia Farrow can't have it both ways. She wasn't married to Allen - and had no claim on him. I wouldn't call Allen's relationship with Soon-yi "Selfish". I'd call it pathetic. Good grief, he was a famous Millionaire filmmaker. But the best he could do was a rather plain 20 year-old kid who was part of his inner circle.
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Alvy Singer ?? Isn't he the guy, that married his adopted step daughter?
That excerpt makes it sound much better than I remember it. Too much "Freudian bullsh*t". I'd be interested to see what a modern psychologist could do with similar ideas.
Speaking of "a 'defiant creation of meaning' expressing 'the myth of the significance of human life' as compared to other animals" — it should be noted that Annie is thinking of buying what Alvy disparagingly calls "that cat book." Maybe she was on a *higher* level, seeing a kinship with the other animals, while Alvy still strained to find a way to deny death.
Inasmuch as people realize it's an illusion it is unconvincing. People need genuine hope. Or they need substantive despair. Politics feeds on and variously encourages both.
Becker was big, big, big I'm the Seventies. Forgotten now.
Most of his fame came after he died, so in a way, he did deny death and escape from evil.
For a couple of years anyway.
'...when I saw the news that the U.S. government is going to stop requiring daily reports of the number of Covid deaths.'
Midterms must be coming : )
of covid, with covid, comorbidities or sans, vaer measurements
I hope they continue to report at least weekly deaths. It helps to understand the seriousness of whatever curren variant is circulating.
Uncannily, that synopsis of 'Denial of Death' describes what I've been thinking and saying about Joe Biden's view of himself in the world: what we used to call 'a hero in his own mind.'
Thus, since humanity has a dualistic nature consisting of a physical self and a symbolic self, we are able to transcend the dilemma of mortality by focusing our attention mainly on our symbolic selves, i.e. our culturally-based self esteem, which Becker calls 'heroism': a 'defiant creation of meaning' expressing 'the myth of the significance of human life' as compared to other animals...
It's only gotten exponentially worse as Biden has gotten older. A huge problem for Biden, however, was the political base he made his Faustian bargain with for the presidency has widely rejected the religious and classical liberal values he notionally espoused all his life.
Humanity's traditional 'hero-systems,' such as religion, are no longer convincing in the age of reason. Becker argues that the loss of religion leaves humanity with impoverished resources for necessary illusions.
So, where does Biden turn? The phony scientism of the left.
Science attempts to serve as an immortality project, something that Becker believes it can never do because it is unable to provide agreeable, absolute meanings to human life. The book states that we need new convincing 'illusions' that enable us to feel heroic in ways that are agreeable.
As a life-long legislator of the Senate, Biden never had to confront the duality in any practical sense. Biden the executive (notice how that title doesn't really fit the man) is caught right now between reconciling his "illusion" with the "physical" reality of results, as a means of struggling with his mortality and legacy.
How far does this go in explaining Biden's repeated failures in policy, leadership and governance?
Ann, I see the fear of death all over the USA and Europe, but not in India, China, or Japan. My theory is: a majority of the people in Asia still believe in a religion. Certainly most Indians are religious. Japan still seems very Buddhist to me, though polls of the Japanese do not show strong feelings for any religion. China is the big unknown. It is a fact that the Chinese Communist Party was strongly against any religion from its founding in 1921. However, modern Chinese seem similar to Chinese from before World War II, they ACT like they believe. As one Chinese man I know said, “I hope the after life is true, but I don’t think it’s true.” This belief without certainty is something Luther wrote about in his private letters 500 years ago. Today, family members of true cadres of the CCP still perform rituals of mourning which are based on traditional beliefs. Another theory of mine is that if Europeans and Americans do not embrace a religion, their civilization will collapse, because without religion, life is meaningless, and death looms over all.
Note the date for the dismissal of religion as no longer convincing in the age of "reason," with its arrogance and ignorance in believing that faith and reason are incompatible. But the unstated point has a point, that the existentialism of the last 150 years has really caused serious injury to society and people's loss of understanding and meaning in life.
it turns out lizard queen whitmer, of the fake insurrection charge, undercounted the covid deaths by 30-40% this seems to be a pattern,
gilbar said...
Alvy Singer ?? Isn't he the guy, that married his adopted step daughter?
*************
Is he the same guy who starred in that movie, "Honey, I Shtupped the Kids!"?
(no, that was Rick Moranis, a devoted family man)
And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Luke 23.42-43
I believe there is life after this life because Jesus did. But I know followers of Jesus who do not, who believe this earthly life is all there is. So be it. We will find out one way or another. I trust that my end will be more than an oven. I don't know if it will be paradise, but I will receive whatever divine love gives.
On another note, the film clip reminded me of days long ago when I visited book stores and bought books in them. I seldom do this now. The last time I was in a bookstore, it was striking how desolate it was, with almost no one shopping there.
I am far from hostile to religion, for many of the reasons Becker discusses. (I read "Denial" when it came out.)
But I cannot for the life of me understand how Christians, Jews and Muslims think that God bestows particular blessings on them and has chosen "prophets" to speak on his behalf.
We know now with certainty that planets abound in this Universe. On those with intelligent beings---and statistically there have to be bazillions---are they all "fallen" and require divine redemption?
if this is all there is it's a miserable lot, how will you know unless you come and tell us,
Us Christians there has to be something more, Christ decomplexified what the lawgivers had overburdened, Mohammed comes along and says essentially this level of detail was right, but the Jews are wrong,
My dad used to say "Some people aren't happy unless they are miserable."
I wonder if this is a phenomenon only seen in wealthy nations?
why is Annie Hall laughing? He's not funny. Oh right, its woody's movie.
The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling,
For you but not for me.
And the little devils have a sing-a-ling-a-ling,
For you but not for me.
Oh death where is they sting-a-ling-a-ling,
Oh grave thy victory?
The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling,
For you but not for me.
The only book on death I want to read is how to avoid dying. When someone figures that out and writes the "How to" book give me a call.
Wow, Becker died of colon cancer, before receiving his Pulitzer, at 49.
effinayright, C.S. Lewis wrote about how God might manifest himself on other planets in the Space Trilogy of novels.
Can't believe nobody has quoted Woody yet: I don't want to achieve immortality through my art, I want to achieve immortality by not dying.
Yeah, not a Woody fan, much. For a droopy little shit, he’s got such condescending attitude. But then- I don’t really know b/c I don’t watch b/c… not a fan.
I’m going to stick to Peterson- he’s got such a wealth of information to listen to … and re-listen to lol. He talks of these same subjects, w/growing humility. He, also, is a good Professor.
Alvy Singer ?? Isn't he the guy, that married his adopted step daughter?
No, Alvy Singer is a fictional character in a movie who was played by Woody Allen, and neither of them ever married their daughter or stepdaughter.
An old fashioned Orange Creamsicle, eaten on a hot summer afternoon, is a wonderful example of the duality of the physical self and the symbolic self. Both leave you in a sticky mess if you aren't quick and careful.
John Althouse Cohen said...
Alvy Singer ?? Isn't he the guy, that married his adopted step daughter?
No, Alvy Singer is a fictional character in a movie who was played by Woody Allen, and neither of them ever married their daughter or stepdaughter.
*************
Someone else who must have recently awakened from an induced coma:
https://www.throwbacks.com/woody-allen-soon-yi-previn/
Woody Allen Married His 27-Year-Old Step-Daughter Because "The Heart Wants What It Wants"
"Another theory of mine is that if Europeans and Americans do not embrace a religion, their civilization will collapse, because without religion, life is meaningless, and death looms over all."
Life is meaningless, which means only that we must find or create our own meaning in our lives, (assuming one needs to feel there is a meaning to life). This is the reason religions exist in all human societies throughout history, (as far as we know). Whether one embraces a religious faith or not, death does loom over all. Civilizations do collapse. The question is whether other civilizations will arise after ours has perished. There's no reason sentient, civilization-building creatures must exist or will survive (or arise again) on the earth. If we truly believe civilization must survive, only we can take the steps necessary to improve the chances of that.
"The last time I was in a bookstore, it was striking how desolate it was, with almost no one shopping there."
This is true. It's also tragic there are so few good bookstores around anymore, with the big-box Barnes and Noble being the closest to "good" one can find in many towns and cities, (in those cities that even have B & N).
"Woody Allen Married His 27-Year-Old Step-Daughter...."
She was not his step-daughter. She was the adopted daughter of his girlfriend, whom he never married or even lived with. This does not lessen the degree of Allen's selfishness in entering into a relationship with her.
Coincidence: today I picked up Old Snow Just Melting, a book of essays by poet Marvin Bell. It has two epigraphs, and the first is from Becker's Denial of Death -- so now, after never giving it a glance before, I've encountered it twice in one day. Here's the passage Bell cites:
"One of the ironies of the creative process is that it partly cripples itself in order to function. I mean that, usually, in order to turn out a piece of work the author has to exaggerate the emphasis of it, to oppose it in a forcefully competitive way to other versions of truth; and he gets carried away by his own exaggeration, as his distinctive image is built on it. But each honest thinker who is basically an empiricist has to have some truth in his position, no matter how extremely he has formulated it. The problem is to find the truth underneath the exaggeration, to cut away the excess elaboration or distortion and include that truth (elsewhere) where it fits."
"This does not lessen the degree of Allen's selfishness in entering into a relationship with her."
The last thing i want to do is defend an amoral pervy oddball like Woody. But...
I don't think there was any selfishness involved. Soon-yi was adopted at age 9, she was Korean, and she didn't particularly like Mia Farrow. She got involved with Woody when she was 20.
People like Mia Farrow can't have it both ways. She wasn't married to Allen - and had no claim on him. I wouldn't call Allen's relationship with Soon-yi "Selfish". I'd call it pathetic. Good grief, he was a famous Millionaire filmmaker. But the best he could do was a rather plain 20 year-old kid who was part of his inner circle.
"The book states that we need new convincing 'illusions' that enable us to feel heroic in ways that are agreeable...."
I think this pretty neatly describes the appeal of wokeness.
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