८ ऑक्टोबर, २०२१
"On Sunday, Sepúlveda, who considers herself a devout Catholic, plans to become the first person in Colombia without a terminal prognosis to die by legally authorized euthanasia."
"Colombia’s constitutional court ruled in July that the right to euthanasia.... applies... to those with 'intense physical or mental suffering from bodily injury or serious and incurable disease.'... An estimated 73 percent of the population is Catholic.... Eduardo Díaz Amado, director of the Bioethics Institute at Pontifical Xavierian University in Bogotá, traces the development to the country’s long civil war and the violence wrought by drug lord Pablo Escobar. In 1991, in response to the country’s instability, Colombia rewrote its constitution. Unlike its 'paternalistic' predecessor, Díaz said, the new constitution expanded individual rights, emphasized 'the respect of human dignity' and underscored the separation of church and state.... In 2014, the court ordered the government to issue guidelines so that hospitals, insurers and health professionals would know how to proceed with euthanasia requests.
The movement for euthanasia rights has drawn unexpected allies: Catholic priests. Alberto Múnera, a theology professor and Jesuit priest at the Pontifical Xavierian University in Bogotá, lectures his students on the 'exceptions' to the 'absolute value of human life' in church teaching. When Catholics follow their own consciences, even when that means choosing to end their own lives, he argues, they will 'behave well' in the eyes of God...."
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Joe Biden considers himself a 'devout' Catholic too.
I consider myself the greatest golfer to have ever lived.
Doesn't make it so...
"The movement for euthanasia rights has drawn unexpected allies: Catholic priests"
Hmmmm, is there where other ideas came from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases
'intense physical or mental suffering from bodily injury or serious and incurable disease.'
With the "mental suffering" aspect in the definition, euthanasia is wide open to anyone.
There are people here in Nebraska who had intense mental suffering and depression due to the Huskers miserable football seasons of recent years. Heck, after losing to the Spartans and Sooners, dozens of Husker fans might have killed themselves.
And, of course, WaPo piles on the Catholic Church. Fuck WaPo.
One thing that Trump made crystal clear is that the Press is full of dishonest and crazy liberals.
Don't you think it's funny; the only time someone is described as a "devout" Catholic in the Washington Post is when they are doing or supporting something that is explicitly against the teachings of the Church?
By her logic, I claim to be a radical progressive. I don’t plan to advocate any of their core beliefs and will push for conservative policies and elected officials. However, I just don’t think the media would call me a devout progressive because they believe adherence to leftist ideology is the litmus test for being considered progressive. However, such a litmus test is not necessary for proclaiming oneself a Catholic because political dogma is important and religious dogma is not. Just another way Marxists/media work to destroy religion.
The main problem with allowing euthenasia is that the tolerance by the state of individual choices to do so, can easily become the forced mandate by the state, making the choice for you and anyone else. Neither Columbia's government nor the esteemed Jesuit explains how to avoid that, although for now Columbia is only at the stage of accepting the choices of individuals to end their own lives. Get it done while the getting is good, I guess.
And then her soul will be damned. The Church is pretty clear on suicide.
The movement for euthanasia rights has drawn unexpected allies: Catholic priests. Alberto Múnera, a theology professor and Jesuit priest at the Pontifical Xavierian University in Bogotá, lectures his students on the 'exceptions' to the 'absolute value of human life' in church teaching.
MA! THE JESUITS ARE DOING IT AGAIN!
"When Catholics follow their own consciences, even when that means choosing to end their own lives, he argues, they will 'behave well' in the eyes of God...."
I don't have a dog in this fight, but where does God say that?
Deciding rightness only by following one's own conscience doesn't seem a very Catholic idea. It means anything goes.
Amichel said...
Don't you think it's funny; the only time someone is described as a "devout" Catholic in the Washington Post....
the WaPo REFUSES to Define "devout", asking them to do so is Racist!!!
The main problem with allowing euthenasia is that the tolerance by the state of individual choices to do so, can easily become the forced mandate by the state, making the choice for you and anyone else.
It's not just the state. Once society decides that some lives are no longer worth living then the pressure will increase from all quarters.
From the Catholic News Agency: In September 2020, the Vatican’s doctrinal congregation reaffirmed the Church’s perennial teaching on the sinfulness of euthanasia and assisted suicide." Also, “Older people are increasingly being taught that growing old is a disease and that therapy for existential needs means killing. We are on the wrong side of the road.”
One of the main benefits of a Jesuit education is that you know when a Jesuit is simply out of bounds intellectually. That Jesuit is dead wrong. And he shouldn't be using his position to spout such BS.
I've vocally criticized the Jesuit Pope for backing the CAGW scam. It's outside his circle of competence in the first place. He needs to focus on reconverting Europe. The other thing is that it is fucking obvious that CAGW is the greatest and biggest scam in human history. It is a prediction about the climate of the entire planet in the distant future based upon flawed models and corrupt data.
Why is this called "euthanasia" and not suicide?
John Henry
God, I’m sure, didn’t want His only son to suffer.
Are we above Christ?
Avoiding “the end” and denying complete vulnerability of self- at the mercy of others- is prideful. Willfully blinding self to the fact compounds the sin of pride(IMhumbleO).
And as sinful as it is- God’s mercy is boundless.
I am a practicing Catholic. I attempt devotion…
Jesuits 🙄🙄🙄
---It's not just the state. Once society decides that some lives are no longer worth living then the pressure will increase from all quarters. [Mr Wibble]
On to the September Massacres. Clearly where the Democratic Party wants to go.
"Why is this called "euthanasia" and not suicide?"
Because the cause of death is directly controlled by another person. You get death as a medical treatment, delivered by the health-care provider, and you're not merely allowed to kill yourself or given the drugs or tools to kill yourself.
It's like the way consensual sex isn't masturbation.
The category "euthanasia" has traditionally included non-consensual things, and many people fear that if you allow it consensually, you're creating a foundation for authorizing delivery of "good death" to people who lack the cognitive power to choose for themselves or to incentivize the choice, even to the point of coercion.
Why is this called "euthanasia" and not suicide?
because absent the "euthenasia" term, it would not be suicide but murder by the doctor.
Too often, what was once voluntary becomes compulsory.
who considers herself a devout Catholic
Yeah, the whole deal of the Catholic Church is that you don't get to decide that sort of thing for yourself. Protestants have a priesthood of all believers; Catholics have a magisterium.
They keep using that word "devout" in ways that completely contradict its meaning.
Ann Althouse: "The category "euthanasia" has traditionally included non-consensual things, and many people fear that if you allow it consensually, you're creating a foundation for authorizing delivery of "good death" to people who lack the cognitive power to choose for themselves or to incentivize the choice, even to the point of coercion."
Precisely, and we have seen some pretty shady non-consensual decision-making along those very lines in the EU.
There is also a danger that health care providers will be forced to euthanize even if it violates their conscience.
Ann,
You get death as a medical treatment, delivered by the health-care provider, and you're not merely allowed to kill yourself or given the drugs or tools to kill yourself.
Interesting use of "health-care provider," there :-) Where do Kevorkian's grisly suicide machines fit in this? He, IIRC, set things up so that the patient him/herself had to take some specific action to cause death; he merely set things up.
I think you are right about the coercive nature of euthanasia -- which extends to things like "comfort care" for babies who accidentally survive attempts to abort them and the like. IMO a full-term infant (or even a severely premature one) is a patient and nothing else to a doctor who takes his/her oath seriously. Cast that aside and you get Gosnell -- or, if you're prone to extrapolate, you get Philip Dick's "The Pre-Persons," where it's legal to abort any child up to the age where it can perform higher math.
People tend to forget that the Nazis went in for euthanasia well before they got around to genocide. Killing off the physically and mentally infirm was just the opening act for the Wannsee Protocol.
Why does anyone give shit what she does?
"With the "mental suffering" aspect in the definition, euthanasia is wide open to anyone."
Just like "the health of the mother", which seems and odd choice of words given that mother implies a woman with a child, not a female host-organism.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
"Why is this called "euthanasia" and not suicide?"
Because the cause of death is directly controlled by another person. You get death as a medical treatment, delivered by the health-care provider, and you're not merely allowed to kill yourself or given the drugs or tools to kill yourself.
It's like the way consensual sex isn't masturbation.
Spot On Analogy. It's also like suicide by cop. Perhaps it's more like the difference between buying a handjob from a sex worker and self pleasuring oneself with ones own hand or fingers as the gender may require.
More Relativistic Cafeteria Catholics; why not? Well maybe because: “His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.” Matt. 3:12.
“Winnowing.” I like the sound. Although I like the sound of “ winnowing now” even more.
Well she apparently doesn’t believe in hell either. But, as the venerable Fulton Sheen once famously said “you will when you’re there, madam”
I believe she’s making a terrible choice, she knows it’s against the faith, but she’s surrounding herself with views that fit her own narrative so she can justify her actions and feel better about herself. For a short time, in this world. For eternity, in the next, well …
I think she’ll fully understand (too late of course) when she’s tasting the everlasting fire, but I also believe in an ever merciful God, and don’t know all of his ways, so who knows.
They may technically be Catholic priests, but the Jesuits are not very Catholic. Their stock in trade is word games that can justify anything you want.
In one of Heinleien's future history books earth declares everyone over 70 legally "dead" it is too squeamish to actually murder them though it does run voluntary euthanasia centers.
These "dead" people have all the rights dead people normally have ia:none. Children inherit and so on. They can't own anything
I'm sure there are people that think this would be a great proposal.
Logan run was based on a similar theme. The difference was ther the govt had an agency to track you do and kill you at a certain age.
John Henry
John Henry
I agree that euthanasia is a slippery slope, but, on the other hand, some progressive diseases are like being dragged ten yards across concrete. I'd rather take my chances with the slalom than with the concrete driveway.
Ann
So if I ask someone to kill me, it's not suicide?
Are you speaking from a legal standpoint? I won't argue that wit a law professor.
If just from a words and meaning standpoint, I think you are wrong. It is definitely suicide. Euthanasia too, perhaps, but if a person makes a decision to off themselves, it is first and for most suicide.
And biblically condemned regardless of method
Isn't selfmasturbation "consensual sex"? (normally)
With someone you love?
But it could also be done by someone else, consentually or not.
'They may technically be Catholic priests, but the Jesuits are not very Catholic.'
Too many Jesuit jokes...
Is the Pope Catholic?
No. But he is Jesuit...close enough.
“ Are you speaking from a legal standpoint? I won't argue that wit a law professor.”
Legally, you use the statutes and follow the language you find there.
I was just discussing the word euthanasia, as used conversationally.
“ If just from a words and meaning standpoint, I think you are wrong. It is definitely suicide. Euthanasia too, perhaps, but if a person makes a decision to off themselves, it is first and for most suicide.”.
I was just responding to someone who wanted to know why it was called euthanasia. I agree it’s also suicide.
>>In one of Heinleien's [sic] future history books earth declares everyone over 70 legally "dead"
It's been a long time since I last read it (though I know exactly where to find the paperback book on the bookshelves up in N.H.), but I think you're almost certainly referring to "Pebble in the Sky," which I probably read in high school (to repeat, I just got back to Boston from the 50th high school reunion in Chicago). Sort of a precursor to the Foundation stories (and they were, originally, separate stories that were subsequently assembled into three volumes, not originally three novels, viz, "Foundation," "Foundation and Empire," and "Second Foundation"; there's apparently some sort of Foundation TV thing streaming either here or on the way), where "Earth" more or less played the role of Judea in the Roman Empire, whose Decline and Fall (capitalized per Gibbon) formed the source of the Foundation stories, even to the point of naming characters with names that were barely disguised versions of ones from Gibbon, et al. (Belisarius, anyone? And let's not get into the origin of the name "Belisarius").
I could be misremembering, but I believe the age was 60 (in my and Althouse's rearview mirror for quite a bit), not 70. And it was less benign than you suggest. Basically, as in Logan's Run (albeit at age 30), the state just offed you. The main character was a contemporary aged about 70 (maybe the source of your view?) who somehow got projected thousands of years into future on the backwater planet where he was far above the age to get offed. Don't quite remember how it played out.
--gpm
Late to the conversation, but this much is clear -- the Washington Post does not care about this woman one bit. The piece is not about her at all, except to the extent that the Post can use and exploit her.
The whole point of the piece is an exercise in anti-Catholicism to divide, confuse and mislead Catholics and assert that the Church is not really the Church, but that worldly anti-Church elements are the Church.
Re: the difference between euthanasia and assisted suicide
It's the difference between a principal and an accessory. They are both the intentional killing of a human being. Same with solitary, unassisted suicide.
Murder and self-murder is murder in both cases.
The greater evil of euthanasia and assisted suicide is involving others so as to make them complicit as well. This includes making society complicit to the extent that society has made it legal. All of the Colombian government shares in the guilt.
This demand to involve and have the approval of others -- when the person seeking her own intentional death could just as easily shoot herself in the head without anyone's help -- is essentially the killer-victim's attempt to diminish her own responsibility, displaying a consciousness of guilt on her part.
Alberto Múnera, a theology professor and Jesuit priest at the Pontifical Xavierian University in Bogotá
That a priest might promote the culture of death is sadly not shocking. Jesus Himself had an apostle, a closer follower, who conspired with and assisted those who were intent on killing Jesus.
Is her "health care provider" insisting she be vaxxed before they kill her?
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