The pro-travel position, aspirationally articulated by Paul Theroux, quoted in "Would the Pandemic Stop Paul Theroux From Traveling? No. Of course not" (NYT).
Nice photo of Theroux's workspace at the link. I'm a longtime fan of that genre of photography, and I declare this example worth a click.
I'm also a longtime participant in the debate about whether to travel, and I'm more of a con than a pro. In that light, I'll say that Theroux sets a somewhat high bar for what you're supposed to be doing in this thing called travel — "empathetic experience," "being in, "smell it," "suffer it," "put up with the hardship." It's no pleasure trip.
Another Theroux quote at the link: "You cannot be a grumpy traveler. You will not get anywhere. You’ll be killed, you’ll be insulted, you won’t be able to travel. So you need to get along with people. I think that I’m characterized as cantankerous perhaps because if you see things the way they are, and you just describe things the way they are, you can be accused of being unkind."
पोस्ट्स
६३ टिप्पण्या:
We want to go to Italy. Italy won't let us come. So we're thinking some other foreign country. Like California.
hmmm
Since last year; when the lockdowns started, i've been to
Wyoming (May)
Tennessee (June)
Wyoming (July)
Wyoming (Aug)
Colorado (Sept)
Tennessee&North Carolina (Feb)
Missouri Tennessee (March (got back, Yesterday)
They All smelled great.. and were Full of Fish
"...if you see things the way they are, and you just describe things the way they are, you can be accused of being unkind."
Blunt honesty gets you labelled "racist", not just "unkind".
Honesty has no place in our Orwellian world.
I see that Hawaii has Vaccine Passport requirement to enter their state
I read Theroux's Mosquito Coast some years ago. Very good as I recall, and a definite hardship in that family's travel.
Why is there a "debate"? If you like to travel, travel. If not, not.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”
- Mark Twain
I actually disagree with this statement. I am extremely well traveled and I have definitely been to places that reinforced negative preexisting views of some places and some people. While it narrow-mindedness is not something I consider travel reinforces, it most definitely can confirm an uncharitable view of mankind and an uncharitable view of behavior and culture that motivates a value assessment.
Mark Twain got that one wrong.
If you never have to deal with people you dislike, you have not experienced diversity. Yes, that includes interacting with Trump supporters. If that is beyond the pale (beyond the palings?) for you, you only give lip service to diversity.
"I read Theroux's Mosquito Coast some years ago."
I love that book.
There's a new version of it as a multi-episode TV show, which is what the book needs (as opposed to the film version, which isn't that good). But unfortunately, it's on Apple TV. I'm not going to add more and more subscription services... or so I say now.
Temujin said..."We want to go to Italy. Italy won't let us come."
Greece will, beginning in April. Greece is much cheaper, safer and friendlier but has largely the same weather and cultural sights.
Wife and I have a bucket list, and now that I’m coming up on my 75th birthday I don’t exactly have lots of years left to visit the places not yet crossed off the list. The sooner the world gets over the COVID hysteria the better for me.
His latest book on traveling in Mexico is superior. Trip is by car so any commenter reading this who is intrepid and brave enough can drive right down. I have been all over that wonderful country including some very sketchy areas. Never had a problem.
Go on vacation and forget about the impending doom. Consider
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9411549/Amish-community-United-States-achieve-herd-immunity-Covid.html
The Amish population is about 43,600. There were 12 Covid deaths. So the population fatality rate is 12/43600 or 0.0275%. Since 90% were infected, IFR is about 0.03%. What the friggin hell?! Just how serious is Covid? Are we over-counting Covid deaths or under-counting asymptomatic cases? Something is fishy...
I had a trip to Greece set up in 2015. Then the Greek economy collapsed and the "migrants" began to flood the country. Too bad. We had it all planned, and it failed to happen. We did go to England and Waterloo instead.
Are the Amish dealing with an obesity epidemic? Diabetes? High blood pressure? Or are they physically fit people? If you are willing to throw the unfit overboard... People live for decades with the kinds of co-morbidities that cause the to succumb to COVID at high rates though.
Thanks for the tip on Greece.
And a review of seroprevalence by John Ioannidis "suggests average global IFR of ~0.15% and ~1.5‐2.0 billion infections by February 2021."
Fear of Covid has overwhelmed logic and individual thought. Fear of impending doom is the only thing justifying the Covid lockdown. This is bullsh*t.
When I've lived places, anywhere from 6 wks to 6 mos, that was meaningful travel. You have to figure out grocery shopping and laundry and garbage service. It meets Theroux's requirement for suffering. It's a big ask, though, covid or no.
RE the Amish: Someone shared an internet meme-photo just this morning with a couple Amish guys being interviewed by a TV reporter.
The reporter asks: "Why isn't COVID affecting you people?" One of the guys responds, "We don't have TV."
We want to go to Italy.
You and every liberal about to receive a major windfall from the Biden et al 'relief' act- and I don't mean that dinky little check 'everyone' got...
The one thing that kills liberals most about these lockdowns is another summer without Europe...
Is there a "debate about whether to travel?" People who just don't care for it aren't debating it; they're just doing other things with their time and attention. Climate and covid fanatics of course want to tell other people what to do, but that's about their authoritarian tendencies, not travel itself. I'm sure they have opinions about the brand of my toothbrush too. They can get bent.
I love to travel and love to read about travel. Paul Theroux is the grumpy counterbalance to sunny Bill Bryson. I have more serious travel writers to explore - Wilfred Thesiger, for example. Alain de Botton, Eric Newby.
Just last night I was thinking about recently departed Larry McMurty as I just read his book Roads which is about road trips. Favorite quotation, of many good ones: "There's just so much to see." Words to live by.
I can't imagine a life without travel. I can't and won't ever stop, unless they lock me up. Covid schmovid.
That "longtime fan" link is wrong.
Pants, I may need to pick up that McMurtry book.
Especially if they're going to prevent me from flying b/c I won't get the vaccine.
Since 1984 I've hitchhiked across Africa, Borneo and Central America; bussed and trained through every country in Asia; traveled through every country in Europe in a Kombi van (camper van); visited my 100th country (Sri Lanka) two years ago. I've traveled by the seat of the pants in countries that the average guy on the street has never heard of. I hope to someday see the Grand Canyon. I have been in a number of dodgy situations but have never been in true danger. The trite maxim, "You're in more danger driving your car to work," demands to be stated again. Of course, lightning strikes now and then, but living with that kind of fear is not living IMO.
Forget the destination and the sights. They're fine but the reward for doing it is the interaction with everyday common people and the frequent wonderful experiences that accompany that and spring from it. And the best thing about such travel is cynics like me learning that people are pretty damn nice and friendly everywhere in the world and that we're all very much the same. Think that is schmaltzy? It's not; it's absolutely true. And believe me, it's worth the trip.
We missed 3 cruises due to the pandemic. Just re-scheduled the first one using a credit for June 5 out of St. Maarten. 7 nights. Booked to only 40% capacity, all crew and all passengers over 18 vaccinated. Flying round-trip out of ATL on Delta.
Going through Panama Canal next March - bucket-list item for me. Next Oct, Mediterranean cruise around Italy from Rome to Venice, one stop in Croatia. I have never been to Italy but my wife and niece have and they both love the country.
I have always enjoyed traveling. The only thing I really miss about my job is the international business travel, usually working at one of our offices or plants in another country, sometimes for as long as a month or two at a time. Always enjoyed working with the people and often being invited to join their families in their homes and outings to various places, usually places tourists do not go. I stay in touch with many of them on Facebook.
In the US we prefer to drive, not fly, when we can. I have had a trip to the NW US planned for some time, following the Lewis and Clark Trail from St. Louis to Astoria, OR, and then return via the Oregon Trail. Not sure now if we will ever do it, getting too old, and things in the country are too unsettled. I did make a road trip with my son from Chattanooga to Dallas last June to accompany him there for some surgery. It was like escaping prison. We had a great time on the way out and back.
Pants, I may need to pick up that McMurtry book.
Especially if they're going to prevent me from flying b/c I won't get the vaccine.
It's a good, quick read. Lots of digression into books, writers and writing.
Here is another passage I liked:
I was not exactly depressed by my visit to the Hemingway house--just disquieted. I chewed on this disquiet all the way across Florida and halfway up its length. The point may be that it's always tricky to go near writers whose work you really like. They may turn out to have bad furniture, or tacky women, or both. I once was a prolific reviewer of contemporary fiction, always for newspapers. What I discovered early on was that it was much easier to be generous to the work if one kept free of any association with the man or woman who wrote it. I once met a well-known writer in an airport; he recognized me and immediately struck up a conversation about his favorite subject, himself. Though a jerk, an asshole, and a bore, he was, and he continued to be, an excellent writer; but from then on, I avoided reviewing him. I couldn't forgive the books what i knew about their author. p 159-160
We used to fly very frequently, even as a family - Mr. Pants flew weekly for work and accumulated miles quickly - but that world is gone now. We bought a travel trailer and will be exploring the center of this country of ours on the ground for a while.
Odd that so many people on this thread are like, just go! Well, you can't just go. We could only get into the UK through shenanigans, and even then we'd have to have a 14 day quarantine, possibly in each direction, and even then half the things we'd want to do would be closed. And all the while we'd be subject to the threat of new lockdown measures which shut everything down and leave us completely stranded.
I know conservatives are all supposed to be up in arms about a vaccine passport, but wasn't that the point, everyone was trying to get to the vaccine so normality could return. How are we supposed to implement that normality without some indication that people have or have not been given the vaccine that is supposed to supply the normality?
I know conservatives are all supposed to be up in arms about a vaccine passport, but wasn't that the point, everyone was trying to get to the vaccine so normality could return. How are we supposed to implement that normality without some indication that people have or have not been given the vaccine that is supposed to supply the normality?
You implement that normality without some indication that people have or have not been given the vaccine, that's how.
Kevin, there has to be a critical mass where enough people get the vaccine voluntarily, and/or have already contracted Covid, that the rest of us shouldn't much matter. Herd immunity.
So the decision to require people to get the vaccine (an experimental treatment), on pain of losing normal everyday rights that Americans have long taken for granted, is deeply troubling. And the motivation behind it makes it doubly troubling.
Althouse said...
In that light, I'll say that Theroux sets a somewhat high bar for what you're supposed to be doing in this thing called travel — "empathetic experience," "being in, "smell it," "suffer it," "put up with the hardship." It's no pleasure trip.
Sheesh, made me think of Raging Bull in Florida (where I am traveling now).
"See it? See it?! Look at it, son! Live in it! Go on boy, live in it!"
NSFW
You are missing the point, the rights are gone *now*. We can't do foreign travel *now*. Though celebrities and the megawealthy seem to have no problems.
There has to be some path to restoring it, besides everyone just shrugging their shoulders and saying "never mind," because they won't.
Well, I (for now at least) refuse to give up another right--the right to determine whether or not to subject myself to a medical procedure (again, an experimental one that has not gone through the normal approval process)--in the hopes they will give me my other rights back.
There's only so much stupid I can tolerate. (And I don't mean you, Kevin.)
I am very torn because I see the flaws in the idea of a vaccine passport, I see the risks and I agree that it is an affront to liberty
I just selfishly feel like like have only so many relatively healthy years (or months) left and want to go on an extended UK trip before I die. And I just can't see a way forward that doesn't involve some sort of vaccine validation. They are doing it on cruises now, so there is at least that much infrastructure (and restriction of freedom) in place already
Theroux is great. So are Jonathan Raban, and Colin Thubron. They do the kind of light solo travel I only read about; the commenters here who have testified to the same style have my admiration and respect.
My interests are historical-cultural; beautiful landscape a definite plus. Patrick Leigh-Fermor traveled light, and wrote superbly about interwar Europe.
(Gilbar, you shoulda waved!)
Narr
Call me a Europhile, see if I care.
When the choice is between:
You can go with a vaccine passport, or
No one goes
Then the vaccine passport doesn't come across as a restrictor, but a liberator. I know that the problem is really the "no one goes" part, but I can't change that
I would argue the idea that you are supposed to be doing those specific things when you travel is nonsense. Spending a few days, a week, or even a month in a place is not enough time to fully experience and understand the place. You can see the sights, interact with some of the locals, but its more like visiting a zoo or historical representation of a place (Plymouth Plantation or Sturbridge Village around here).
Mrs. stevew very much loves to travel but with Covid and the advancing age of her usual travel companion, her mom, she hasn't been able to go to any of her desired locales. I'm not opposed to travel, just don't have a desire to visit out of the way places. Underdeveloped countries (aka: shitholes or 3rd world) will never suffer through my presence. Civilized places like most of Europe are good. Australia and New Zealand might be fun but are to damn far away.
May head out to CA this summer to see family (it's been over two years) and then off to Yellowstone in the fall.
Last August we flew from Arizona to (gasp) Rapid City, S.D. Most on the flights were cautious. South Dakotans varied. We survived. It was fun, particularly Mt Rushmore which was (gasp) crowded.
I get it, Kevin, and I sympathize. I just don't see a way out that isn't worse.
Narr, thank you for reminding me of Jonathan Raban. He wrote that book about sailing between Seattle and Alaska. I loved reading it as Puget Sound is my primal geography* and I loved seeing it through an Englishman's eyes.
*hat tip to the aforementioned Larry M. for the phrase
My interests are historical-cultural; beautiful landscape a definite plus. Patrick Leigh-Fermor traveled light, and wrote superbly about interwar Europe.
He also had fun during the war, kidnapping the German commander on Crete.
No computer visible in Theroux's workplace.
Old school?
m
(as opposed to the film version, which isn't that good).
Peter Weir, Paul Schaeder and an amazing cast. I like the film, perhaps because I love the underlying material. The new TV show stars Jennifer Aniston's ex-boyfriend, Peter Theroux's son Justin.
Just how serious is Covid? Are we over-counting Covid deaths or under-counting asymptomatic cases? Something is fishy...
Yes. The Amish might be a special population with younger age and less obesity but I don't trust the numbers. Zero flu deaths, for example.
It wasn't so long ago that a yellow vaccination booklet was a standard requirement for travel, particularly to places that were endemic with cholera, yellow fever, and the like. I distinctly recall having to get various shots and a yellow vaccination booklet the first time I went to Europe in 1964. The difference now is that the authorities want to make it electronic, which means all types of additional information (e.g., social credits) can be added without anyone's knowledge. I have no more objection to a paper booklet containing a record of my vaccinations and I have no more objection to having to have a vaccination to enter a given country than I do having to have a physical driver's license and show it to vote.
Just heard that domestic biz travel to resume at my company end of Q2, with international travel resumption planned for shortly thereafter. I'm looking either at early retirement or a new gig, because I can not imagine going back to that. Took years to get accustomed to that miserable lifestyle, and even then it required unhealthy behaviors. The only way it enhanced my empathy is with respect to service workers at airports, restaurants and hotels, because travel brings out the worst in a lot of people.
Traveling is like parenting: Some do it well, others do it poorly, and the latter should not be made to feel as though they should do more of it.
>>Earnest Prole said...
"made to feel as though they should do more (traveling}."<<
Who on earth does that?
supposed to be doing in this thing called travel — "empathetic experience," "being in, "smell it," "suffer it," "put up with the hardship." It's no pleasure trip.
Our Daughter her husband just got back from Mexico, all inclusive resort, 5 day stay. Never left the resort. Went to relax on the beach, have as much sex as possible, eat and drink all they could, without infringing on the other two priorities. They came back as happy as they could get without being locked up.
Short take? Ignore people trying to tell you how to recreate.
I see that Hawaii has Vaccine Passport requirement to enter their state
Thank God, that'll save me $15k for the next couple of years
Although the Air BnB thing looks like prices are going up. Destination places closer to home. Lakes, rivers, mountains, ranches,etc. So maybe air travel and destination hotels will be at bargain prices to fill the capacities.
"being in another culture, to smell it, to suffer it, to put up with the hardship and the nuisances of travel, all of that matters."
So being in another culture entails weird smells, suffering, and hardship? Sounds racist.
I've now spent the equivalent of several months in the UK mostly in London but some in Aberdeen. Experiencing London helps me understand why so many "elites" think mass transit works well. It certainly works better in London than Houston. I used to think rail wouldn't work in Houston because it doesn't have natural barriers like San Francisco (another place I lived for the equivalent of several months) to force a narrow habitable corridor. But London and Houston sprawl out the same, yet rail does work in London. But, at the risk of being unkind, I wouldn't call rail in London "green" or nice to look at. And while I could do other things while riding the train compared to driving a car; the commute seemed as long if not longer.
Right now, it is interesting comparing London to Houston in regards to working from home. The Londoners hate it and can't wait to return to the office. They also have small homes with no place for a study/home office to work. Houston is notorious for its McMansions at 100 per sq foot. We have plenty of room to work from home and have no desire to commute back to work.
If you don't travel and experience these things; you wouldn't understand the mindset. Same goes for people living in relatively cooler climates up north thinking people in the hot and humid south would want to wear masks on their faces everyday of their life. Yeah, during the big Texas freeze last month, having a mask was somewhat enjoyable. It's 80 today and masks suck.
Empathy is one way. Principles another. The latter is uniform and consistent.
"the empathetic experience of meeting another person, being in another culture, to smell it, to suffer it, to put up with the hardship and the nuisances ""
I feel as though I could "travel" in the above sense by taking a summer class in one of the social sciences at UW-Madison in the People's Republic of Dane County. It's a possibility I toy with but travel for me has always been about fun in interesting and historic surroundings, not about proving myself in an ordeal.
Narr, thanks for the travel writer recommendations. Looked them all up as I had never heard of them (although I'm pretty sure I had hear of "Shadow of the Silk Road") and they are now all on my 'to-read' list.
I was a travel addict when I was young but now I think it's more important to have a beautiful home in a nice place than to travel. Sure you can do both if you are wealthy but most of the "locals" I've known are people who are your basic wage slaves and who depend all year on the promise of an exotic vacation in order to survive the tedium of their work/life routines. The idea of going to a place and roughing it with the locals seems absurd in the case of people who have been roughing it all year in their own lives, unless seeing people who are worse off makes them feel better.
Somehow Theroux advocating or glamorizing the down and dirty travel experience as somehow noble and enlightening seems somewhat disingenuous to me. Despite his advocacy for getting down in the nitty gritty, Theroux owns two homes in Cape Cod and Hawaii and that's his life style. (In his case it's don't do as I say, do as I do.)
I watched a Youtube video recently made by a Scottish guy who was traveling low budget in Thailand, I believe. He recorded himself as he had decided to take public transportation from the airport to his hotel even though there was no direct link and he had to walk to the nearest train, sweating profusely all the way, while dodging the locals. He paid for the train ticket which cost about $0.05 and then discovered that the locals don't even bother paying. He had booked a room in a hotel for $25. which I thought for the price was adequate but then he complained because he found a hair on the closet floor and the one towel they provided was very worn out. I thought he was acting like a fool. Take a cab, stay in a nice hotel, then go out and mingle. That's probably what Theroux does.
"Short take? Ignore people trying to tell you how to recreate."
Sounds like they were recreating. A lot : )
Question: If one gets on a plane, travels to a place abroad, and stays for 6 months in one place - doing the same domestic routine one does at home, is that 'travel'?
My problem with travel has always been how frantic it appears to be - at least from the people I know that travel. They make lists. The do research. They make schedules so complex they resemble a military operation in their precision. They look at the clock and calendar while on 'vacation' as much if not more than at their jobs. They realize at some point they are attempting too much and then agonize over which activity to cut from the list. They come home - and tell me they need a day off to recover from 'vacation'. FFS that sounds like my *job*. The intensity of packing in as much as possible for a peak experience that justifies the effort - yikes.
My idea of travel would be related to my question: do what I normally do in a different place. I would love that - a home base and no need for clock/calendar gazing. And enough time to feel like I don't have to frantically pack in as much as I can. Is that...'travel'? Or just living someplace else for a while?
Although the Air BnB thing looks like prices are going up. Destination places closer to home. Lakes, rivers, mountains, ranches,etc. So maybe air travel and destination hotels will be at bargain prices to fill the capacities.
We're going to Phoenix in a couple weeks and even modest Air BnBs are significantly more expensive than hotels.
m stone:
A little Googling seems to indicate Paul Theroux writes old school...in long hand on paper. I often wonder about the difference between writing on the computer vs by hand.
Loved his "Riding the Iron Rooster" about travels in China.
I know conservatives are all supposed to be up in arms about a vaccine passport, but wasn't that the point
The vaccine passport is not about opening up sectors of society. It is about excluding people from those sectors of society.
The people I interact with in Seattle think nothing of driving to the airport to fly to...(fill in blank) to have a Theroux experience of 'understanding' exotic peoples. However, most would never think of travelling to where I live, 40 miles south (Lakewood), to try and understand and empathize with the Army/Air Force folks around here. Many born and bred in Georgia, Alabama, etc. People that challenge one's thinking are right around the corner - no need to spend all that $$ and time for a cultural experience!
Didn't he get in trouble in the Peace Corps for too much "empathetic experiencing" of the natives or something? It wouldn't surprise me if he was perfectly well behaved and made up the bad boy legend. It's what writers do.
...
The theory is that computers make it possible to write too quickly, and pens or pencils or typewriters let one write slowly and deliberately, so that one can ponder over each word and the effects it creates until one chooses the right one. I had too much bad experience with typing class in high school, so I never understood the strange cult of the mechanical typewriter: jammed keys, ink stains, trouble getting the spacing between lines to line up, words and letters above or below the others, having to xxxxx out all the mistakes or white them out or else put in a new sheet and start all over again. Pens, though, are alright.
Mosquito Coast was a great Theroux intro for me. Made 'getting off the grid' a cautionary tale and a delight. Patagonian Express my favorite of the rail books (one or two were formula driven vehicles compelling readers to share the author's own boredom). Personal opinion, of course. Like Theroux, I travel solo for expended periods-The ONLY way to get to know the locals and the vibe. That said, when you start naming the cockroaches sharing your room, it's time for for a a night or two with five star maid service :-)
Anxious to read the Mexico book. Recently spent a couple of months there. As badly as their visitor economy has suffered, a whole new sector has sprung up - Right alongside the "Fuck COVID" t-shirts are signs, "We have the COVID tests. Results in an hour!".
May have mentioned before - I own small travel agency (about 150 active clients). Lost $$$ in past 18 months BUT the number of people on wait-lists is YUGE :-) The ships starting to cruise Caribbean are mostly "repositioned" from this year's Alaska shutdown. Demand is yet to take-off as the Caribbean is a multiple "Been-there-done-that" for many cruisers. What's REALLY BIG is Round-the-World itineraries. Many people who can afford are in an age group that's thinking "Now or never". Best ships already booked solid through 2023 - some no-longer even taking wait-list requests.
In The Happy Isles of Oceania, Theroux came dangerously close to losing his life when he encountered hostile villagers in New Guinea. "Run you life,Dim-Dim!" was shouted at him, and he had to take to his kayak (he was paddling between islands whenever possible) to escape their further attentions. He was also shot at during the African travels he detailed in Dark Star Safari.
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