३ फेब्रुवारी, २०२१

Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?

"The nearly 1,400-foot tower at 432 Park Avenue, briefly the tallest residential building in the world, was the pinnacle of New York’s luxury condo boom half a decade ago, fueled largely by foreign buyers seeking discretion and big returns.... [Now, t]he claims include: millions of dollars of water damage from plumbing and mechanical issues; frequent elevator malfunctions; and walls that creak like the galley of a ship — all of which may be connected to the building’s main selling point: its immense height....Wind sway can cause the cables in the elevator shaft to slap around and lead to slowdowns or shutdowns... [One might hear] metal partitions between walls groan as buildings sway, and the ghostly whistle of rushing air in doorways and elevator shafts.... [There can be] creaking, banging and clicking noises in their apartments, and a trash chute 'that sounds like a bomb' when garbage is tossed...."


Last time I was in NYC, in June 2019, I was shocked by the radical change in the skyline as seen from Central Park. I took this photograph of the very tall skinny buildings:

fullsizeoutput_2fe5

They look like a painted backdrop in a futuristic movie, not like anything reassuringly stable, such as would cause you to think: Home. Actually, that photograph makes New York City look like a diorama in a Natural History of Earth Museum on another planet.

Top-rated comment at the NYT: "This would be hilarious if it didn't disfigure the city's skyline and highlight the hideous inequality of our society."

१५४ टिप्पण्या:

God of the Sea People म्हणाले...

Hard to believe someone would think a skyscraper would disfigure the New York skyline.

rehajm म्हणाले...

Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?

The Germans having a word for it is implicit approval.

Fernandinande म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Fernandinande म्हणाले...

This would be hilarious

"Those people are suffering but it's OK because I'm jealous."

highlight the hideous inequality

Big and/or fancy dwellings are a traditional way to do that, so what's this guy's problem?

rehajm म्हणाले...

highlight the hideous inequality

In a city full of skyscrapers it's this one what's the problem...

Leland म्हणाले...

NYT readers want people to live in shanties less they become uppity and choose to live more lavishly.

Lucien म्हणाले...

Somewhere on YouTube there's a realtor giving a video tour of an apartment on the 43rd floor there listed at $28,500,000 or so. Nice apartment, but for 4,400 sq. ft., it's a bit much.

Greg Hlatky म्हणाले...

"This would be hilarious if it didn't disfigure the city's skyline and highlight the hideous inequality of our society."

Deep blue areas of the country are notable for their hideous inequality.

Wince म्हणाले...

"Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?"

Enough about GameStop and the congressional reaction to the Capitol riot!

wendybar म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
wendybar म्हणाले...

If you haven't noticed yet, Regressives WANT us to suffer. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

These buildings are different from traditional skyscrapers. They're really skinny. They looked freaky to me.

I'm Not Sure म्हणाले...

"This would be hilarious if it didn't disfigure the city's skyline and highlight the hideous inequality of our society."

Women and minorities hardest hit.

tim maguire म्हणाले...

No, it's never ok to enjoy the suffering of others (though it is understandable). That said, I wouldn't call the inconveniences of the very rich "suffering."

And, of course, it is ok to see a project you oppose experience problems and setbacks, or even fail (the only exception is when that failure causes suffering--but you can still applaud the failure of the misguided project even as you regret the suffering because it creates an opportunity to replace the bad project with a better one).

AlbertAnonymous म्हणाले...

"This would be hilarious if it didn't disfigure the city's skyline and highlight the hideous inequality of our society."

...she said, while sipping her Napa Valley dry rose.

“Yes, hideous INEQUITY indeed.” He corrected her...

“Some of those poor dears wouldn’t even know the difference between a Cabernet and a Merlot.”

He mumbled, while making his way over to the caviar table to ask the New Yorker cartoonist how she “draws” hideous inequity...

Marcus Bressler म्हणाले...

Every thing I read that concerns the problems of NYC residents causes me to chuckle. They deserve everything they get.

THEOLDMAN
Born in Brooklyn

Really tall and thin skyscrapers are racist, aren't they? How many black people live in them? Tear them down!

Lucid-Ideas म्हणाले...

If any of you have ever travelled in Asia, nothing would seem unfamiliar. Reminds me of Hong Kong and Jakarta. Basically, any place real estate is at a premium, they just get higher, and thinner.

Also using Hong Kong as an example, good maintenance becomes the most important consideration when choosing which one to live in, not price, for which you will pay dearly even if everything else sucks.

In short, yes, there are people that view this kind of lifestyle as the future. No ownership of anything and living on top of each other while bumping into each other on the street or borrowing through the earth in a giant ant colony.

Greg Hlatky म्हणाले...

Tragedy is when I stub my toe.

Comedy is when your luxury high-rise collapses.

Kirk Parker म्हणाले...

Where's the EqualityBullshit tag?

John Borell म्हणाले...

I don't enjoy their suffering. But to be honest, I don't give a fuck, either.

Your billionaire building sucks. Tough shit.

You buy a $40 million apartment without due diligence. Tough shit.

Flood that causes $500,000 of damage in a second apartment, covered by insurance. Tough shit.

I don't hate the super-rich. I honestly don't think about them at all.

TML म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
TML म्हणाले...

They're horrible looking. I would never even go into one because of the look of them and my fear of one just snapping off in a stiff gust of wind. No thanks.

Iman म्हणाले...

Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?

I am not in the camp that it is okay with it (though tempting it may be at times).

I amn’t in the camp.

Levi Starks म्हणाले...

Science says you’ve got nothing to worry about.

Wince म्हणाले...

Althouse said...
They're really skinny. They looked freaky to me.

Like the guy "you'd definitely meet in your short story workshop"? (New Yorker cartoon video @10:38)

"He's weirdly tall and skinny."

Dust Bunny Queen म्हणाले...

First of all, people who live in these multi-multi-million dollar poorly constructed and badly designed luxury buildings aren't "suffering".

They choose to live there and can afford to live anyplace else that they desire. Unlike people who have no money, are living hand to mouth, out of jobs, wondering if they can get through another month before they are living on the streets.....these people are NOT SUFFERING.

So. Yes! I do find some poetic justice in the inconvenient living conditions of the rich. bwahahahaha 🤣

BUMBLE BEE म्हणाले...

"Heavy on the covet, Father". G. Carlin Animal Zoo?

tcrosse म्हणाले...

How many people actually live in these monstrosities more than a few weeks out of the year, anyway?

Laslo Spatula म्हणाले...

I don't understand what this story has to do with the plight of transgender people.

I am Laslo.

Scott म्हणाले...

A number of jobs ago I worked on the 23rd floor of a normally-proportioned skyscraper on the Hudson River, at 10 Exchange Place in Jersey City. My desk was near a window. (I was real important then.) When the wind was high, the Bali matchstick blinds would bump against the window frame as the building swayed.

I can't imagine being at the same elevation in a much skinnier building. Maybe if I actually wanted to experience a persistent undercurrent of fear in my life, I'd live there.

In any case, I can't understand the economics of such residential buildings. There is so much vacant office space in NYC these days, it would be cheaper to turn a building like 40 Wall Street into condos than it would be to build something new.

Lurker21 म्हणाले...

If you live in New York City or have been pushed out because of the high rents, you're going to resent the city's rich and if you have to look at those towers every day, you will probably take pleasure in their discomfort. New York, or so I've heard is like that. For me, those buildings might just as well have been in Dubai or Kuala Lumpur and I really don't care.

I can understand the aesthetic objection. I usually don't, though. If there's one house in one style in the suburbs and next door one in a radically different style, I really don't care. That's how people live and what they build. But if you're used to thinking of the New York skyline as seen from a distance as an ensemble, then sure, this thing sticks out like some eyesore.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

You've got your hideous inequalities. I've got mine.

Original Mike म्हणाले...

Surely, this is Trump's fault. He's a New York real estate developer, he was President. He knew about this. He could have stopped it.

Impeachment III.

Mark म्हणाले...

They never will learn.

You can't teach a Sneetch.

What goes up, must come down.

MayBee म्हणाले...

It sounds terrifying, and not funny or delicious in any way. People buy in a building in NYC and they assume it's mechanically solid. That *should* be a safe assumption. I wouldn't live in a tall skinny tower in China, but in NY I'd assume it was safe.

I could never afford to live there, but I've lived in high rises before. I don't think it's funny if the people living there are rich, or if they are poor and the outside material is combustible, or anything in between.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

"These buildings are different from traditional skyscrapers. They're really skinny. They looked freaky to me."

It took millions of years of living with traditional fat skyscrapers to make us humans feel at ease with them. These skinny ones are creepy.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

who wants to live so high up in a city where terrorists once took down some of the tallest sky scrappers?

Sleep well much? err - no thank you.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

yeah - boo hoo. Rich people problems.

Cry us a river.

Wince म्हणाले...

Here's an idea for a New Yorker cartoon:

Show that skyline with all those tall skinny buildings, but with clotheslines between them with underwear (e.g., union suits with "trap doors" in the back) drying in the wind.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

a tall skinny metal framed object that juts unnaturally into the stratosphere sways in the wind?
no way!

mezzrow म्हणाले...

The soul becomes desiccated when it lives in a world that is almost exclusively manufactured. - Don Colacho

mikee म्हणाले...

You can either have a building that sways a bit in the wind, or one that snaps a bit in the wind. Most builders opt for the former.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Not one thought about the surrounding buildings and streets where mayhem and bloody death will soon follow after one of those skinny unnatural rich people slender penile buildings collapses in a global warming wind storm. It's gonna happen.

CWJ म्हणाले...

"... walls that creak like the galley of a ship ..."

What? Was something lost in editing, or is this just psuedo-intellectual word salad?

Eleanor म्हणाले...

I can't imagine wanting to live in New York City in any kind of structure. More and more people seem to be agreeing with me lately.

Fernandinande म्हणाले...

I'm enjoying the suffering of the guy who wrote the "hideous inequality" comment.

Tina Trent म्हणाले...

Wince wins, as always.

I can't stand inhuman landscapes. The actually rich people live in New Paltz or the Hudson Valley.

The people who died in the Twin Towers were mostly low-level employees of Mandarin stock market tarot card readers who got to work elsewhere. A Mandarin friend of mine was screaming at a subordinate who was trying to explain a plane hit their building. He told him to stop whining. The subordinate died.

My friend made this experience all about his psychic pain.

sinz52 म्हणाले...

The people who reportedly helped pay for this building couldn't care less about its exterior esthetics. Including some Eastern European oligarchs who probably don't live in New York anyway.

And the whole building is ugly as sin.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/432_Park_Avenue%2C_NY_%28cropped%29.jpg

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?

It's not okay to laugh at suffering you caused, except in special circumstances...no one's going to Hell over a Dutch Oven, for example, but if the sufferer brought it on themselves or if it's just bad luck and the suffering is not very severe, is temporary or can be mitigated by the suffering individual, then it's okay to have a laugh at their expense, as a sort of guilty pleasure, especially if the sufferer is a good friend or an asshole.

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

I guess my question would be: What did you expect in a thin building in high winds? Don't believe what a Real Estate agent who makes money on the sale is telling you.

Rick.T. म्हणाले...

Some of those poor dears wouldn’t even know the difference between a Cabernet and a Merlot.”
——————
Corkmaster: Gentlemen?
Niles: It was jammy, plummy, dense and chewy. There is no doubt in my mind that it was a Napa Valley Merlot.
Corkmaster: You, Frasier.
Frasier: A nice big wine with excellent heft. It's Napa all right, but as I always say, why go Merlot when you can call a Cab?



I remember the pictures in the restaurant on the 95th floor of the Hancock being screwed into the wall.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?

Well if Madison was burned to the ground I might crack a smile.

Jess म्हणाले...

Traditional skyscrapers were basically bulky, had a different style of engineering, and with the price of steel, probably not economically feasible today. That, and labor costs, with the increased regulations, demand ways to cut costs and allow the owners to make money.

Another thing: land isn't in surplus in New York City. With smaller plots, thinner buildings are required.

The only way to understand current building construction in New York is to spend some time with general contractors, and their staff. Donald Trump comes to mind. Regardless of opinion, he has successfully built tall buildings in a brutal market.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

"They're really skinny. They looked freaky to me."

I think they were/are being built because new building techniques allow for skinny buildings, which means they can be built on a much smaller footprint and still have a lot of square feet to sell.

But maybe not ready for prime time.

As for "fueled largely by foreign buyers seeking discretion and big returns...." I think it's less about discretion and more about rich Russians and Chinese parking their money somewhere thought to be a safe investment.

It's kind of tough for Xi or Vlad to steal your condo when you fall out of favor.

Iman म्हणाले...

Better to do nothing than to make something into nothing.

Original Mike म्हणाले...

Is real estate in New York a good investment at the moment?

MayBee म्हणाले...

What do you all expect from NY wrt what they allow to be built? Do they just let any old building be built on any plot of land? Or do they have rigorous inspection and permitting processes?

Is it funny that elevators have to be shut down in high wind? Would it be funny if you were in one when it came to a halt?
Or is it all LOL rich people should have known NY City let crap be built in its most expensive areas?

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

Blogger CWJ said...""... walls that creak like the galley of a ship ..."/"What? Was something lost in editing, or is this just psuedo-intellectual word salad?"

Either they meant the kitchen of a ship — which isn't apt — or they mean the whole ship — see definition below, from Wikipedia — but then it's like saying "the ship of a ship":

"The term "galley" derives from the Medieval Greek galea, a smaller version of the dromon, the prime warship of the Byzantine navy.[1] The origin of the Greek word is unclear but could possibly be related to galeos, dogfish shark.[2] The word "galley" has been attested in English from c. 1300[3] and has been used in most European languages from around 1500 both as a general term for oared warships, and from the Middle Ages and onward more specifically for the Mediterranean-style vessel.[4] It was only from the 16th century that a unified galley concept came in use. Before that, particularly in antiquity, there was a wide variety of terms used for different types of galleys. In modern historical literature, "galley" is occasionally used as a general term for various types of oared vessels larger than boats, though the "true" galley is defined as the ships belonging to the Mediterranean tradition."

Lucid-Ideas म्हणाले...

I do not understand wealthy culture. I've been exposed to enough here and there to wonder what the money is actually buying. Seriously, so many of these people pay through the nose to remain miserable so long as it fits in a well it's what a person with my kind of money is supposed to do box.

It's a very unimaginative way to live.

Iman म्हणाले...

The rats, Megan... THE RATS!!!

Mr Wibble म्हणाले...

As for "fueled largely by foreign buyers seeking discretion and big returns...." I think it's less about discretion and more about rich Russians and Chinese parking their money somewhere thought to be a safe investment.

It's kind of tough for Xi or Vlad to steal your condo when you fall out of favor.


My understanding is that the real estate boom was also driven by Chinese parents buying places for their kids to live while coming to the US to study.

gspencer म्हणाले...

". . . walls that creak like the galley of a ship ..."

And what would these oo-la-la types know about being on a ship, especially in the galley! Trans-Atlantic ship crossings are a thing of the past.

And, yes, hearing of their being annoyed and inconvenienced did help me digest my commoner breakfast.

MayBee म्हणाले...

And yeah, rich foreign investors do buy places they never intend to live in order to park their money away from the people that control their countries. In London, there was concern that Belgravia was emptying out even though the homes were owned- because the people didn't really live there. 1 Hyde Park is one of the most expensive addresses in the world, though I'm not sure what it's occupancy rate is.

There was a big push to try to get "real" people into homes in London, because the businesses that thrive in each little neighborhood rely on people living there and going to eat, buying food, etc. And not clearing out.

Mr Wibble म्हणाले...

Blogger CWJ said...""... walls that creak like the galley of a ship ..."/"What? Was something lost in editing, or is this just psuedo-intellectual word salad?"

The writer is credentialed, but uneducated, and certainly not well-read.

Spiros म्हणाले...

These people were also raging that skyscrapers spread COVID-19 faster (air flow, proximity, ventilation, plumbing, etc.). I wonder if their tower has herd immunity?

iowan2 म्हणाले...

Hideous inequality

As compared to when?

Someone pointed out that markers of wealth from 200 years ago, are now enjoyed by the very poor. Fresh fruits and vegetables? Only for Kings.
Poverty as at it lowest ever. The worst the result of corrupt govt.

Howard म्हणाले...

Comedy is based on laughing at the pain of others and or ones self. It's a psychological evolutionary coping mechanism for a species who is fully cognizant of it's mortality.

Howard म्हणाले...

Galley, galleon

Francisco D म्हणाले...

Is there a Trump angle here?

Rick.T. म्हणाले...

Comedy is based on laughing at the pain of others....
———————
Wasn’t it Homer - No, the other one - who said it’s funny because we don’t know those people?

gilbar म्हणाले...

i think you All are Missing the Point
These 'skinny skyscrapers' are inherently safe!
Do you know HOW HARD it would be to hit one with an airliner?

LA_Bob म्हणाले...

Hideous inequality

In 1960, JFK, running in the West Virginia primary, said to his brother, "Imagine kids who never drink milk."

Now it's, "Imagine people who actually have to work for a living."

Curious George म्हणाले...

Forget the all the listed bullshit...even if none of that was a factor no way could I ive in one of those condos. It's like living on the edge of a cliff.

Years ago I hired an attorney who had an office on the 54th floor of the Three First National Plaza in Chicago. Floor to ceiling glass. You would sit a foot or so from the window...it was very disconcerting. I hated it. Probably a good thing, the fucker billed at $200/hour.

Michael K म्हणाले...

I remember the pictures in the restaurant on the 95th floor of the Hancock being screwed into the wall.

The Hancock building is not skinny and seems well built. I knew a doctor friend who commuted by elevator. Not for me but he liked it.

These really skinny buildings make me wonder about engineering and building codes. A lot of money can buy almost anything but common sense. Read Clavell's "Noble House" about Hong Kong building codes.

chuck म्हणाले...

the hideous inequality of our society.

Used to be parts of NY City smelled of garbage, these days it is virtue signaling.

DarkHelmet म्हणाले...

'Hideous inequality'

Yes, some people really do spend their days fretting about this notion.

I would guess the comment's author wouldn't really like the changes that would be required in his lifestyle were all the world's people to be made 'equal.' Consider the average living standards in India, Brazil, China, Uganda, etc.

The loudest proponents of 'equality' have a very, very selective understanding of the term.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

"It's a very unimaginative way to live."

There are levels...40M to you and me is not a lot to a multi-billionaire.

"My understanding is that the real estate boom was also driven by Chinese parents buying places for their kids to live while coming to the US to study."

My son lost out in bidding to a man (Chinese) who was buying a $1M apartment in San Francisco (cash) for his daughter while she was in school.

So it happens, but I don't think it happens too much at the $20M-plus level...

gilbar म्हणाले...

an apartment on the 43rd floor there listed at $28,500,000 or so. Nice apartment, but for 4,400 sq. ft., it's a bit much.

In Wyoming, you can buy The Twin Pine Ranch:
....Size: 10,738 Acres
....Type: Farms and Ranches, Hunting Property, Horse Property, House
....Home: 6 Beds - 3 Baths
which gives you More Than TWICE as many Acres, as the NY Condo has sq ft.
You Also get 3 miles of your own Trout Stream, along with the Buffalo, Elk, Antelopes, etc

Oh, and since they're only asking $17,800,000... You'd SAVE about TEN MILLION DOLLARS!

What With Covid, etc.... Tell me, Again, WHY rich people would live in NYC?

AZ Bob म्हणाले...

"This would be hilarious if it didn't disfigure the city's skyline and highlight the hideous inequality of our society."

The cancer of the woke culture is now malignant. Now we must eliminate acronyms because their usage promotes white supremacy.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

'Hideous inequality'

I would laugh, except the 'poor' people in this country tend to be quite fat...all on Uncle Sam's dime.

walter म्हणाले...

Laslo,
Imagine the degree of phallo-centrism such swaying, banging erections foist upon said demographic.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

You're alwayw rooting for record earthquake deaths, Carlin pointed out.

DavidUW म्हणाले...

Maybe it's time to start training engineers in actual math and science and engineering rather than wasting time in ethnic studies requirements.

Ice Nine म्हणाले...

The answer is: 'You bet it is.'

Mr Wibble म्हणाले...

My son lost out in bidding to a man (Chinese) who was buying a $1M apartment in San Francisco (cash) for his daughter while she was in school.

So it happens, but I don't think it happens too much at the $20M-plus level...


I suspect that it has the effect of driving up prices for mid-level condos and houses, and causing changes across the whole housing market.

cf म्हणाले...

Perfect diorama entry for the Earth Museum!

This puts me in mind of my excitement with these designs,
https://cloudsao.com/ANALEMMA-TOWER
orbiting condominiums & office. tho they seem to use parachutes to get to earth, so needs work, haha. Assuming it works, I would MUCH rather hang from an asteroid than teeter from the highest towers.

Temujin म्हणाले...

It seems to me that once upon a time New York knew who it was, the people there knew who they were. Now it's as if this is a teenaged city furiously trying to figure out what it's supposed to be and realizing that it's no longer living up to the reputation it had when the Adults were running things there. And by 'things' I mean- everything- from the schools to the developments, to City Hall.

As PJ O'Rourke famously stated, "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenaged boys." In this case, the city leaders are all teenaged boys and not a one of them knows what they want to be when they grow up.

Mark म्हणाले...

The quality/wisdom of the engineering is yet to be determined.

As I said, what goes up, MUST come down. These things are NOT going to last as long as the Colosseum or anything else the Romans built 2000 years ago. They will need to come down at some point, and 9/11 demonstrated that it is not an easy thing to do safely.

And, yes, it remains to be seen if a few decades from now they can still withstand a big enough wind.

Unknown म्हणाले...





























Wow! Maybe street beggars aren't so bad off after all.








Big Mike म्हणाले...

@giobar, in Wyoming you’d also get Liz Cheney as your Representative while in the neighborhoods around Central Park you’d have Carolyn Maloney. Both are dingbats and rabid Trump haters. In New York you’d get feral street gangs and teenagers playing the “knock out game.” In Wyoming you’d deal with mountain lions, wolf packs, grizzly bears, and black bears. Advantage Wyoming.

Unknown म्हणाले...





























Wow! Maybe street beggars aren't so bad off after all.

John Broussard






CWJ म्हणाले...

Althouse,

I'm perfectly aware of both meanings of the word "galley." But as you acknowledge, neither makes sense here, the latter even less so.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

"Imagine the degree of phallo-centrism such swaying, banging erections foist upon said demographic."

Maybe just build two spherical buildings (one on each side of the tower) and call it a day.

P.S. Blogger is total shit today.

Sigivald म्हणाले...

"This would be hilarious if it didn't disfigure the city's skyline and highlight the hideous inequality of our society"

New York Doesn't Matter, We Remind The New Yorkers.

(Disfigure? What, it was somehow perfect before? The super-tall, skinny buildings are at least interesting contrasts.

And if they want equality, I hear Burma's making great strides, or maybe they could try Cambodia circa 1980?

These people and their "inequality" bullshit!

Tell me you're concerned with the absolute material condition of the poor, and I'll agree with you that that's worth caring about.

Whine about "inequality" and you're just envious that some people have lots of money and you don't.)

CWJ म्हणाले...

"Galley, galleon"

Howard, toss in "galleass" while you're at it.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

"Is there a Trump angle here?"

LOL! There is a Trump angle on WWII.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

Incidentally, the building in question is probably the tall rectangular about 1/4 of the way over from the left edge of Althouse's photo.

PM म्हणाले...

Those plumbing problems are fixed by lawyers.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

I am assuming the photo was taken from the west edge of the Pond looking back east southeast, which is where 432 Park Avenue would be, and based on the photograph of the building itself I found on-line.

Howard म्हणाले...

It's funny how you people scream about the inequalities between the heartland and the coastal elite claiming globalists billionaires conspire to run deplorables into poverty yet don't see the same inequalities between the urban elite and the urban peons.

I'm sure xenophobia and racism has nothing to do with it.

Dividing deplorables from Bernie Bros and the squad is the first and last goal of the Davos crowd.

Mission accomplished

NCMoss म्हणाले...

Take something agonizingly out of context and be outraged about it; isn't that a boilerplate we can put away for a while till the next republican is president?

Spiros म्हणाले...

If you need a Trump angle -- luxury real estate purchases are a good way to launder large amounts of money (no questions asked). Trump built and Russian oligarchs bought.

Browndog म्हणाले...

Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?

Only if they caused you such personal pain and suffering you are not quite ready or able to forgive. Which makes it a burden you freely choose to carry. Okay by me.

Michael K म्हणाले...


Blogger DavidUW said...
Maybe it's time to start training engineers in actual math and science and engineering rather than wasting time in ethnic studies requirements.


Too late. Stanford already has Physics for POCs.

Old and slow म्हणाले...

The bitterness of the comments at the NYT is near universal. What a depressing bunch they are.

Personally, I think it is a cool bit of engineering and an impressive looking building. That it is experiencing these problems is hardly a surprise.

Narr म्हणाले...

Goddamn Blogger! I think the blog is being fucked with.

In late medieval Florence IIRC, the super wealthy got into a some "I can top that" urban tower building, a competition that ended with some deadly collapses. The tendency of new money to push new tech beyond its limits is nothing new.

Narr
Test comment

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

For Rick T.

Michael K म्हणाले...

Dividing deplorables from Bernie Bros and the squad is the first and last goal of the Davos crowd.

Mission accomplished


Howard is unusually incoherent today. Why don't you get together with Spiros and try to post an intelligent comment ? He is all in on the Russia hoax and you are poetic about "you people" and "xenophobia and racism." You might be able to come up with some sort of logic.

Narr म्हणाले...

Well, finally.

In the early 80s my wife was an onsite designer at Dag Hammarskjold Towers, two or three blocks west of the UN. It was as posh a place as I've ever stayed in, and since it was the project of a Saudi billionaire whose family would live on the top floors, it was solid.
The condo prices were so far outside my financial ken that I don't recall them.

Even with money, I wouldn't care to live in such a structure; I don't gloat about the residents' problems, but sheesh, how dim to do you have to be?

Narr
Green Acres is the place for me

Mr. O. Possum म्हणाले...

All comedy is based on enjoying the suffering of others.

narciso म्हणाले...

the tallest building like the burj al khalifa in dubai, the abrait al beit in mecca, the proposed kingdom tower in jeddah, not in the Us,

RMc म्हणाले...

Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?

Well if Madison was burned to the ground I might crack a smile.


They're working on it.

Jim Gust म्हणाले...

Original Mike asked about real estate values in New York City. According to an estate planning webinar I listened to in December, some NYCity real estate values have fallen by as much as 75% as tenants have declined to pay their rent.

On a related note, I am informed that there is a great reshuffling of renters going on, as many try to make their skipped rent payments permanent.

Longer term, I expect the explosion of crime in NYCity is going to greatly reduce the real estate demand.

narciso म्हणाले...

I would think we are moving straight to snake plissken territory here, I dubbed warren wilhelm , mayor bane' after the villain in dark knight rises,

Francisco D म्हणाले...

Michael K said... The Hancock building is not skinny and seems well built.

If I recall correctly, the Hancock was specifically built to sway in heavy winds.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne म्हणाले...

Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?

Yes. The New Yorker cartoon post made me think of who some of the greatest modern American cartoonists were/are:

Peter Arno

Chas Addams

Gahan Wilson

Sam Gross

All pretty grim and funny, too!

Tomcc म्हणाले...

I became familiar with the creaking sounds of wooden ships by watching Saturday afternoon movies- usually with pirates. Lots of cities have tall buildings with restaurants in their upper level. It's great for viewing, but one also notices a bit of swaying. Personally, I would bear that in mind when shopping for a place to live.
As has been mentioned above- I wonder how many full time residents occupy the building?

Big Mike म्हणाले...

@Francisco D, do you mean the Hancock Tower in Boston or the Hancock Center in Chicago. I rather doubt that Chicago building is designed to sway as its structure is heavily cross-braced with X-shaped bracing that travels up the sides of the building, intersecting with, and bracing, the vertical supports. The building in Boston is infamous for producing motion sickness in its occupants, something that was partially alleviated with a "mass damper," consisting of two 300 ton weights on the 58th floor.

jg म्हणाले...

loft style construction is often plagued by drafts/noise.
normal condos have an insulated air gap between floors.
don't know anything about tall buildings besides they do sway/flex and the swaying is often actively damped (big weight in basement on motors, usually, like a cruise ship's anti-sway)

KellyM म्हणाले...

Leland said...
"NYT readers want people to live in shanties less they become uppity and choose to live more lavishly."
2/3/21, 8:24 AM

You mean like the City Dump in “My Man Godfrey”?

There was a lot of that sentiment going around here a few years ago when the glass plate windows in the Millennium Tower were falling to the ground, and smashing into lethal shards on the sidewalks below. It was determined that the building was listing slightly due to the shortcuts in the foundation and sending the windows out of true. Hilarity and lawsuits ensued.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

If enjoying the suffering of others is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

tcrosse म्हणाले...

It's the proverbial shit creak.

Scott M म्हणाले...

It's perfectly okay to acknowledge that someone you're opposed to, in whatever venue, is suffering a setback and that it helps you. It's also satisfying, which I suppose is a cousin of enjoyment, to have your point of view validated by something the opposition does, or fails to do, that collapses their viewpoint. What's not okay is gloating, in any form.

n.n म्हणाले...

Yes, through empathy and sympathy. #PrinciplesMatter #HateLovesAbortion

Francisco D म्हणाले...

Big Mike said...
@Francisco D, do you mean the Hancock Tower in Boston or the Hancock Center in Chicago. I rather doubt that Chicago building is designed to sway as its structure is heavily cross-braced with X-shaped bracing that travels up the sides of the building, intersecting with, and bracing, the vertical supports.

I was referring to the Chicago Hancock. I have been in the building many times. The upper floors sway in the wind, as was planned for and expected. That was widely discussed when it was built.

Tina Trent म्हणाले...

My husband practiced law in one of those ugly Atlanta skyscrapers — a Portman building, I think. Hawks built messy nests on the ridge outside his window and ripped still-alive prey to death 40 stories up while he watched.

He said it made him reflect on the practice of law.

Ralph L म्हणाले...

Building a lot more of them would slow down the wind.
A ship's galley will have more rattles than creaks.
For decades, I've had dreams of being in (impossibly) swaying towers. I believe they started after the going to school without pants ones but before the not remembering where a college class is and missing all of them before remembering I've already graduated so who cares?

Wikitorix म्हणाले...

Someone pointed out that markers of wealth from 200 years ago, are now enjoyed by the very poor. Fresh fruits and vegetables? Only for Kings.

Nah, 200 years ago, the poor generally had better access to fresh fruits and vegetables that a king would. The poor at the time were primarily involved in farming, so they were growing whatever they ate, and could get them as fresh as the season would allow. It wasn't until the industrial revolution that the poor moved into the cities to work in factories that they would have lost access to those things.

Kings in 1820 generally would have been in cities. The transportation of fruits and vegetables would have been by horse-drawn wagons, and so they'd get to the table of a king at best days after being picked. That's only if they were in season - no refrigeration means they wouldn't last, and no railroads meant they had to be locally sourced.

Skeptical Voter म्हणाले...

Unusual building styles yield unusual problems. Early in my construction law career I dealt with some "round" or "curved" buildings. It's easier to build things at right angles with square corners. Rounds buildings have their own set of problemns--sometimes they leak when it rains. Now if you have a luxury condo where snowbirds buy vacation rentals (and arem't smart enough to know that you don't need a fur coat in a Southern California winter) the roof just might leak. And when it leaks it just might wreck those fur coats left in closets (amont other things). Fun and games in construction law litigation--good times, good times.

narciso म्हणाले...

small beer here, includes comparables,


https://thejeddahtower.org/

JaimeRoberto म्हणाले...

"They're really skinny. They looked freaky to me."

Do they remind you of men in shorts?

n.n म्हणाले...

The obsolescence at the Twilight Fringe. Wicked.

Individual dignity. Intrinsic value. Inordinate worth. Natural imperatives. Go forth and reconcile.

Oh, and a beachfront estate for everyone in paradise.

TheOne Who Is Not Obeyed म्हणाले...

"Nah, 200 years ago, the poor generally had better access to fresh fruits and vegetables that a king would. "

At least in Europe and the Middle East, most wealthy and royalty were landowners, possessing their own fields and farms for the production of food for their tables. That food was shipped to their tables every day, and depending on the size of the realm may have made that trip in less than a day.

The poor were either landless or, if landed, often destitute and selling most of their saleable produce in urban areas and keeping the least saleable for themselves. They had fresh fruits and vegetables (depending on where they were located), but nothing like what we have now and certainly of poorer quality than the ones eaten by the rich and noble (who had gardeners and farmers for that exact reason).

That was 200 years ago, and it had a lot to do with the "age of revolution" in Europe about 175 years ago.

Tomcc म्हणाले...

"Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?"
What- as opposed to enjoying my own suffering?

Narr म्हणाले...

TheOne has the better argument overall, IMHO, as far as food consumption patterns; long lists of unusual birds and beasts were eaten by rich and poor alike, not because they're so scrumptious but because people were hungry.

Large cities, many of them, still had walls, which helped the authorities regulate what was brought in for the markets from the truck garden districts around. Droves of cattle, sheep, and swine would be driven in and slaughtered; food of all kinds was dried or salted for use over the winters, and in that season only hothouses could provide anything fresh at all--and guess who had hothouses.

Narr
The urban masses often ate literal scraps

Rick.T. म्हणाले...

Thanks Yancey! I guess I didn’t quite remember it correctly.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

@Francisco D., now you made me do some research. According to this description the building’s design allows only five to eight inches of sway in a 60 mph wind, though it’s been tested to withstand winds of 132 miles-per-hour. It seems to me that "five to eight inches" isn't much, but I will also concede that it's not zero.

Rick.T. म्हणाले...

It seems to me that "five to eight inches" isn't much...
————
Especially when talking about erections!

rehajm म्हणाले...

Oh, and since they're only asking $17,800,000... You'd SAVE about TEN MILLION DOLLARS!

...also garner significant tax savings if you change your primary domicile to Wyoming..

rehajm म्हणाले...

It seems to me that "five to eight inches" isn't much...
————
Especially when talking about erections!


Not if that's extra....

Michelle Dulak Thomson म्हणाले...

Howard,

It's funny how you people scream about the inequalities between the heartland and the coastal elite claiming globalists billionaires conspire to run deplorables into poverty yet don't see the same inequalities between the urban elite and the urban peons.

"You people," forsooth! Howard, I'm not sure who you mean, but for myself the "urban peons" and the rural ones are part of the same picture, and the global/cosmopolitan/uber-rich urbanites have their boots on the necks of both. Though TBH this building doesn't seem to me to be very important, except as a Symbol Of Something TBD Later.

I've been to Manhattan many times, and like it -- no, really! -- but would seriously prefer to stay as near the ground as possible. Though if the commercial skyscrapers are going to remain as empty as they are now, I see no reason that they couldn't be "repurposed" to house people. Though hopefully not at knifepoint, as in WA.

Bilwick म्हणाले...

If every statist, gun-grabber and taxaholic fell, one by one, into a volcano and died a horrible painful death, I'd laugh and laugh like Little Audrey. Then I'd take a big sniff of the now-free air, devoid of the stink of statists.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

@Rick T. and rehajm, if you guys were any good at off color comedy you would work in something about the wind blowing.

Rick.T. म्हणाले...

Big Mike said...
@Rick T. and rehajm, if you guys were any good at off color comedy you would work in something about the wind blowing.
----------------
It's why I keep my day job. Bob Newhart is the only Chicago CPA who had the chops to go pro.

William म्हणाले...

I live in NYC. When you walk around the reservoir in Central Park, you get a good view of the skyline. Otherwise, the skyline is not part of life. Those new skyscrapers are indeed stark and looming. They jut out from their clenched surroundings, not like a spire pointing to heaven but like a finger flipping the bird. I could do without them, but they're new and remind me that things change. I like the old wedding cake buildings along Central Park West. The rich people that live in the Dakota are so much nicer than those rich people that live in the new buildings..

DavidUW म्हणाले...

Though if the commercial skyscrapers are going to remain as empty as they are now, I see no reason that they couldn't be "repurposed" to house people
>>
There are analyses of this that I don't remember all the precise details but that state it's relatively difficult (although certainly doable, but takes time) to repurpose office buildings to condos. Logically it makes sense, as office buildings would have different placement strategies for water utilities in particular.

There will be a lot of bankrupted hotel buildings however that I imagine will be turned into residences first.

Freeman Hunt म्हणाले...

I do not like how those buildings look, and I would not be keen to go into one, but I can't help but feel a bit bad for anyone having problems with his house.

rehajm म्हणाले...

Sure, they stick out now but eventually there will be more just like them in close proximity

hugh42 म्हणाले...

Engineering: how much sway is to be expected in this tower? How much if it were a solid steel sculpture? How much to the elevqtor cables weigh? How much horsepower to operated the elevator? Can one elevator go the whole distance? How much power to pump sprinkler water to the top?

How deep are the footings? What size bolts hold the columns at the bottom?

Tinderbox म्हणाले...

So pass a law that makes the city buy and turn them into public housing if you think it will make the quality of life for NYC residents better.

stephen cooper म्हणाले...

Is it ever okay to enjoy the suffering of others?

No, that way lies madness.

Is it ever okay to enjoy the company of people who are better because they have suffered?

Different question, different answer.

stephen cooper म्हणाले...

If you visit NYC, a great experience - and one you will never forget - is to spend the afternoon at the Met on 82d street, and about ten minutes before sunset, start walking to Penn Station in order to take the train home ---- going south, looking to the west, you will see the same skyline across the park that you say the first time you did that, in the early 80s, ----- the buildings silhouetted, as if they were drawn in cartoon fashion as old skyscrapers the way the Ignatz and Klutzy Kat used to paint the mesas of old Arizona, with the same indigo ink charm and the same perfect delineation that the things we loved in our youth always have when we remember them later on with friends walking by our side (The super tall buildings are not visible as you walk south from the 80s to the 40s and as you look towards the west over the park from your walk down Fifth Avenue)


the experience is even better if you used to live near NYC, and know that, when you get to Penn station, the train will head out to any suburb you want, any suburb that used to be your home, but that in any suburb you ever used to live, or rent an apartment, someone else now lives in the house or apartment, someone you probably hardly know if you know them at all, and it is their home now, and you will have to sleep at the train station or find a younger friend in a different house or apartment at whose home you can spend the night, or pull out your credit card (not that I ever have a credit card in any of my dreams along these lines) and fork up for a night's lodging at a HOTEL/MOTEL

Paul Mac म्हणाले...

People concerned about wealth inequality should cheer this. People are blowing millions & getting crap for it. If rich people do useful, productive things with their money they just end up with more of it. cf. Musk, Bezos, etc. Inequality then increases. These few rich are dropping towards the ranks of the common man quick & this does far more to slow or reduce wealth inequality than anything else that might contribute to society. It is like voluntary socialism, not creative of value or wealth just destructive.

Success James म्हणाले...


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