Raphael Bob-Waksberg is the comic writer associated with the animated Netflix show "Bojack Horseman." I have read and enjoyed his story collection "Someone Who Will Love You in All Your Damaged Glory." I follow him on Twitter, and I loved his question. I've watched the Fran Lebowitz series, and I'm the same age as she is (and lived in the NYC in the 70s and 80s), so I liked it, but what about these kids today?Are teens watching Pretend It's a City? Have the alternative teens discovered Fran Lebowitz? I feel like for a particular sort of high schooler this show could be It Exactly - a key into a different kind of being: "Oh, I'm That." If you are a teen or know a teen, please report.
— Raphael Bob-Waksberg (@RaphaelBW) January 19, 2021
Bob-Waksberg hasn't gotten too many answers. A couple teens say they've watched it, but give no report on whether they found it to be any kind of "key into a different kind of being."
But here's the most striking answer:
I clicked around and found this:alternative teens discovered her a'ight pic.twitter.com/cJ7lUd9v3G
— ☹☹⌛⌛⚰⚰♻♻ (@zaws) January 19, 2021
I love Fran Lebowitz too... & I would love to be simply excited for this new netflix thing but I have some awfully depressing news... Fran Lebowitz is a TERF! I know this because in this 2010 documentary about Candy Darling, Beautiful Darling, Lebowitz articulates the TERF position just about as explicitly as you can--that Candy isn't a woman, but a man tragically and fetishistically fixated on womanhood.... I suppose I am bringing it up because, as usual, it's that thing where an older cis lesbian has been just about as explicitly hateful towards trans people as you can be, but because she's an elder or whatever we're all pretending that never happened....
TERF = trans-exclusionary radical feminist.
You can watch the entire documentary "Beautiful Darling" here, but I'll just embed the trailer, which begins with Lebowitz talking about Darling:
Lebowitz expresses the opinion that you cannot be a woman if you didn't begin life as "a little girl." The power behind Candy Darling was Andy Warhol, and Lebowitz knew Warhol — she wrote for his magazine — and did not like him, as you can see in this clip from a Scorsese domentary that was HBO in 2011:
"This is what happens when an inside joke gets into the water supply."
ADDED: I wrote "Lebowitz expresses the opinion..." but these are not "opinions" in the non-artist sense of the word. I like to quote Oscar Wilde: "Views are held by those who are not artists."
You've got to understand that Lebowitz is a humorist. She's releasing her inside jokes into the water supply.
पोस्ट्स
८५ टिप्पण्या:
Fran hates Trump - fuck her.
Can't you love Trump without doing cancel culture bullshit?
You've got to understand that Lebowitz is a humorist. She's releasing her inside jokes into the water supply.
No woman must ever be made to feel bad about, or responsible for, anything, ever.
Can't you love Trump without doing cancel culture bullshit?
The Left couldn't hate him without doing cancel culture. They're still talking about persecuting Trump, his family and his supporters.
But hey, I get it, the Republicans are supposed to just disarm and roll over like good little doggies, as they have done in the past.
That would be boring, and certain individuals could pretend it was moderate.
But the only way the Left is going to halt the cancel culture is if the Left starts experiencing the pain of cancel culture.
No, Ann, you cannot.
See Trumpites response to Twitter, Facebook, Ben Sasse, Fox News, Amazon, every major media outlet you quote .... it is disloyal and not allowed.
No variance or free thought allowed.
Have you seen the response to every major newspaper story when you post? It is given less credence than the random YouTuber of the day.
Great, Gahrie, you acknowledge both sides are doing it.
Enough of the bullshit line that it is just the left canceling.
That line about rolling over and not playing along has been bullshit, glad you finally admit it.
Have you seen the response to every major newspaper story when you post? It is given less credence than the random YouTuber of the day.
That's because the major newspapers are clearing writing from a position of bias, they lie regularly about the Right, and they are quite often wrong.
serious question
WHY is it, that you can be mis-assigned at birth as a man, and then years later
(after enjoying male privilege for all your life)...
Self assign as your true, proper gender?
But if you're born white; you're white until (and After!) you die?
In other trans news, “President-elect Joe Biden has tapped Pennsylvania Health Secretary Rachel Levine to be his assistant secretary of health, leaving her poised to become the first transgender federal official to be confirmed by the U.S. Senate.“
Didn’t Levine make all sorts of mistakes in PA?
Great, Gahrie, you acknowledge both sides are doing it.
No I don't. Name one prominent Lefty that the Right has cancelled. Even this instance, is Left on Left cancellation. my point is that the Right must enforce cancellation standards on the Left that the Left enforces on the Right in order to getthe Left to stop.
Enough of the bullshit line that it is just the left canceling.
Again...exactly who has the Right cancelled?
That line about rolling over and not playing along has been bullshit, glad you finally admit it.
This is incoherent (rolling over and NOT playing along?) but the GOP Establishment certainly has been rolling over and continues to do so.
TERF - What they call you when you complain about their gender appropriation.
No variance or free thought allowed.
Which party is busy persecuting and prosecuting people for wrong think at the current time?
Gahrie, explain again how the President, who has a press room and can call a press conference at any time day or night has been canceled.
And I do not see the Democratic party doing it.
If you want to make up a pretend organization called 'the left' as your conspiracy cabal go ahead but thats a steaming load of BS.
Unless you then admit that white supremacists are running 'the right'and that the guy who placed the pipe bombs in DC is representative of your side.
You argument is bullshit.
'Which party is busy persecuting and prosecuting people for wrong think at the current time?'
The many people who have decided to never watch Fox News again?
And once again, where is THE PARTY doing this?
Is Twitter an official member of the Democratic party?
You've got to understand that Lebowitz is a humorist. She's releasing her inside jokes into the water supply.
That snot funny.
And any attempt to influence the kids about what is still cool from the 70s is doomed to fail. Not because there are no such things, but because they have to discover it on their own. If you tell them then by definition it’s not that cool. Also an example of how it’s hard to maintain coolness from 50 years ago when examined in the harsh LED light of modern woketopia. These kids need to mellow, but woke never sleeps. My my, hey hey. Being woke is here to stay.
If Fran was interested in keeping other people happy, she'd have been focused on that long ago. I haven't seen much evidence of it, and she's been on my radar for what seems like my whole adult life.
The new masters hate that. All must conform to last week's revision.
To them, she's some sort of troglodyte that must be shunned. To me, she's the Glenn Gould of comedy.
Lebowitz expresses the opinion that you cannot be a woman if you didn't begin life as "a little girl."
This is an opinion shared by 99.9% of humanity.
"Views are held by those who are not artists.”
We are now in a world where the artist may not have any “views” but if his art does not support the views of the powerful, nobody will see it. Cute little sayings from Oscar Wilde notwithstanding.
"Have you seen the response to every major newspaper story when you post?”
When did the New York Times publish the story that John Brennen wrote in his own notes in his own hand that the Russian collusion thing was a smear by the Clinton campaign to take attention away from her illegal handling of emails?
They didn’t. They just pretend that they weren’t lying.
"Can't you love Trump without doing cancel culture bullshit?”
She doesn’t just hate Trump, she hates everybody who voted for him, so I can’t see the point of supporting a propagandist who hates me. I know artists don’t have views and all, but I think you are thinking more of real artists, not propagandists.
The many people who have decided to never watch Fox News again?
Choosing which TV channel to watch is prosecution and persecution?
Whoever is paying you certainly isn't getting their money worth.
Is Twitter an official member of the Democratic party?
Might as well be.
You explain the donation imbalance.
You explain the constant censorship of the Right and promotion of the Left.
@Mark - is it far to the real world from your home? Do you visit occasionally? Everyday people (the kind Sly loved) are not permitted to speak freely in public for fear of persecution by the snitch bitches of the left and the progressive corporate lawyers and HR people who guide corporate policy. Oh, and never mind being an open conservative in a university. I guess your motto is “people are free - free to be like me”
The 1970's are as far away from today as the 1920's were from the 1970's. The Vietnam War is as distant as WWI was. Same with the style and fashions. Consider that when addressing today's teenagers.
"The many people who have decided to never watch Fox News again?”
It took them ten days to rescind their “call” that Democrats were going to pick up ten to fifteen seats in the House. Obviously they were not making these calls based on the data they were receiving on election day, but on the needs of Democrat strategists. Why should I ever watch them again? If I buy a bottle of water and when I open it it smells like sewage, I drop the brand, even if it was good water before.
The Triggernometry podcast of a few days featured an interview with philosopher Stephen Hicks on the topic of post modernism.
Hicks explains the recent obsession, by the post modern Left, on the topic of transgenderism.
Hicks says that post modernists believe that reality is described by cultural power, not by reason.
Whether or not men can become women is not a proposition we can reason ourselves to (or not). Instead whether or not men can become women is determined by the winner in a power struggle.
So it is not an argument that can be decided by science or reason, as far as the post modern left is concerned. If they cannot make you believe that men can become women, they have lost power. If they can, then the normal people of the world have lost power.
So it is not an argument that can be decided by science or reason, as far as the post modern left is concerned. If they cannot make you believe that men can become women, they have lost power. If they can, then the normal people of the world have lost power.
I'm just wondering what the next fight is. Because there will be a next one. Polygamy is a good bet for a couple of reasons, but pedophilia has its supporters, and bestiality is no longer out of the question. (Of course animals can consent! they're thinking, emotional beings!)
"s Twitter an official member of the Democratic party?”
It’s the same argument they use to try to claim that Joe Biden is not corrupt. Are James Biden and Hunter Biden, and when he was alive and involved in the influence peddling schemes Beau Biden Joe? No? Well then just because the three of them have gotten rich and powerful based on Joe’s power doesn’t make Joe corrupt! Joe is a decent guy and never made more that $400,000 in his life! Hunter was picking up the tab on things like Joe’s kids and grandkids’ education that Joe might have paid had he not been an underpaid public servant out of filial love and filial love only, not because he was expected to kick back 50% of his “earnings” to Joe, like he said in that IM.
I enjoyed Fran in her early days. All she wanted to do was smoke, stay in bed, and read. Everyone else had some kind of work ethic. Having not seen or read her for years, I was a bit surprised recently to come across a bit of video where she talks about Jane Austen. Paraphraising: Austen is one of the great writers, and she has become surprisingly popular in movies, but the reasons for her popularity have nothing to do with the things that make her great. A touch-minded assessment of people, and whether they can improve or not.
Progressives don't want to find people in the past who actually thought for themselves. They want to find people who somehow stumbled on and clung to views that we know today as woke. Who knows how they achieved this, blind squirrels and nuts, etc.
"If they cannot make you believe that men can become women, they have lost power.”
In the story of William Tell, the reason he was forced to shoot the apple off of his son’s head by the Hapsburg viceroy was that he refused to bow to a cap placed on a pole in the public square as a sign of obeisance to the Hapsburg emperor, of course it didn’t work out in the end too good for the viceroy.
Fran's cufflinks, umm. No tie. The Godfather updated.
that Candy isn't a woman, but a man tragically and fetishistically fixated on womanhood
Fran is absolutely right. There is absolutely nothing to celebrate about Candy Darling, who suffered a brutalized, short life. What Darling needed was a community tolerant of her desire to present herself publicly as a woman. Being fawned over by a bunch of drunk reprobates on the fringes of the lower east side club scene isn't much of an accomplishment.
This absurd trans activism is undoing decades of progress sexual minorities have achieved for tolerance. "We're here, we're queer, get used to it." You don't have to like us, and you don't have to come over to our house for dinner, but we reject the closet and the social stigma that is used to keep us in there. Hate the sin but not the sinner.
Even if you don't accept it, it's a pretty compelling argument. Gays were asking to be able to do the things that straight people were able to do: acknowledge our intimate lives publicly.
Transmaniacs are demanding something all together. Gender dysphoria is an extremely complicated phenomenon that is not well understood. About 99.5% of the human population suffers no significant conflict between their sex and their gender.
Could anyone have imagined in the 1970s that a bunch of academic minutiae on femininity between Jewish dykes would come to be a major front in the culture war?
Can't you love Trump without doing cancel culture bullshit?
Which side is literally drawing up lists, demanding that people be blacklisted and promising to prosecute their political enemies?
"Lebowitz expresses the opinion that you cannot be a woman if you didn't begin life as "a little girl."
That's not an opinion. And it's not a view. It's called a fact.
I'm just wondering what the next fight is. Because there will be a next one. Polygamy is a good bet for a couple of reasons, but pedophilia has its supporters, and bestiality is no longer out of the question. (Of course animals can consent! they're thinking, emotional beings!)
They've been building up to polygamy for years. Even back when gay marriage first started winning court battles there were a slew of articles in the NYT, Slate, Salon, WaPo about how "many gay men aren't monogamous, and thus gay marriages will not be monogamous, and so straights need to rethink their expectations of monogamy."
I'm honestly surprised that the Obama admin didn't push it. I expect that in the next few years you'll start to see more puff pieces about "non-traditional" family arrangements. Some minor celebrity or politician will come out as poly. The White House will host a man-woman-woman throuple as guests for a visible LGBT event. All leading up to President Harris declaring that we should recognize poly families and ordering the Fedgov to do so. The key will be to sell it to upper-middle-class white professionals. You want a poster family to be non-threatening, not some religious nutjobs. A software engineer, his government lawyer wife, and their mutual girlfriend the yoga instructor. Appeal to the men that they'll get more pussy, while professional women can have the marriage and kids while still getting their "queer" credential.
"Fran's cufflinks, umm."
In the new Netflix series, she wears cufflinks that were handmade by Alexander Calder.
Not the same ones in the video I've embedded. Why are you saying "um"?
Here's a woman who's come up with an dress style for herself and stuck to it for years. It's her iconic look, totally a brand — like Tom Wolfe or Steve Jobs. You have a problem with that?
I believe Ann's question was directed at the first comment. Not a general condemnation per se. It does drive the discussion into the same-old, same-old ruts of discontent.
I don't know nuthin about "Pretend it's a City," never heard of it; but 1970s NYC was a fascinating place! I didn't know much about Candy Darling, but certainly Warhol's publicity-pimping of Edie Sedgwick was a revolting thing. Even so, Edie was her own self-destructive being. Andy just recognized opportunities. I assume Candy was another. The lonely misfit from Queens and Massapequa. How many of those must there be? Did Candy's death at 29 suggest he/she was a physical lemon, so to speak? From which problems the psychological issues also flowed?
Do I have a problem with Fran's cufflinks? I don't know, ANN! Better give me the tone of voice in which you said that!!
LOL. I was admiring them. I don't have any deep background on Fran Lebowitz so the sight was a novelty to me. Her executive look. But now you've disillusioned me. You suggest it is more boring than I had thought. So now, yes, I gotta problem wit it.
Chicks are not dudes. Dudes are not chicks.
Lockdowns don't work.
simple truths.
It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world.
Acch. So much bullshit packed into one story. I have to admit, I used to love New York, but somewhere along the timeline of my life, I think I just heard too much of it, about it, and from it. Everything does not have to be about New York. The most interesting people are all around us, but the only ones with cameras and mics on them 24/7 are in New York. Or so it would seem.
That said, I don't know anything about Fran Lebowitz. Maybe I've lived a sheltered life. Maybe I've had a few thousand other things I put my head into. In the short clip shown, I liked her and what she said. Smart, funny. And probably the type of New Yorker I could listen to for about 20 minutes, then have to move on. I'm sure she'd get around to insulting my thoughts or personal philosophy in quick fashion. She sounds like a cousin I have up there. Still, I may have to give her a try, but not with 7+ hours of Scorsese. Marty lost me with The Irishman, an overwrought, tedious rehash of his same acting crew and same script, but without the grab that he used to have. I fought three times to get through it once.
Anyway, when you have teenagers worrying about who is an actual trans person, who defends the actual trans person, and who is a Terf, well then we've lost our kids. It's a seriously damaged generation sprouted from a seriously damaged society.
And no- the kids today have zero interest in anyone from the 70' or 80's- perhaps unless they dressed in drag, wore makeup. David Bowie, maybe. They think history started in 2005.
Lastly- the guy quoted in your header asks have 'alternative teens' discovered her? Isn't just being a teen, by the very definition, an 'alternative' way of being/thinking? I wonder if he was ever around any teens, or if he had managed to miss that part of his own life? All teens are alternative beings. That's why we all wait for them to grow out of it. Unless, of course, the very meaning of 'alternative' has been changed to mean only 'Trans'.
Like I said at the start: Acch.
Can't you love Trump without doing cancel culture bullshit?
I wonder how Sandmann and Kavanaugh feel about cancel culture?
Mark said...
//Enough of the bullshit line that it is just the left canceling.//
Ok, I am not saying that just the left is canceling.
But can you tell me the forms cancellation from the right is taking? (I see precious little of it.)
Stop trying to change the subject, Althouse.
Curious George said...
//"Lebowitz expresses the opinion that you cannot be a woman if you didn't begin life as "a little girl."
That's not an opinion. And it's not a view. It's called a fact.//
Can we opine facts?
Ann Althouse said...
"Can't you love Trump without doing cancel culture bullshit?"
I just did a blog post about you forgetting I'm not caught up in this spirituality bullshit. That you've already forgotten what they did to us over the last five years, and think remarking on it is "cancel culture bullshit", isn't a shock after that.
Few of you are reliably consistent thinkers in the least.
I haven’t been to NY since ‘94-‘95, when it seemed like a great town. Was that near the peak, or is it always that way when you’re staying in a hotel on an expense account?
"Enough of the bullshit line that it is just the left canceling. “
The right is powerless to cancel people. We can only change the channel, The left through their effective control of mass media and what is allowed to be shown on mass media can cancel stuff.
If I decide that Fox News has become part of the leftthink borg hivemind, I just won’t watch it. That is not taking away their spots on cable lineups, the way CNN is demanding be done of OAN and Newsmax.
Do you have to work hard to keep those blinders on Mark?
I'm guessing that Fran Lebowitz is the Dave Barry of New York, but without the Florida driver's license. He's great. He pokes fun at life's little foibles.
"Is Twitter an official member of the Democratic party?”
That word “official” does a lot of work in that rhetorical question. How would you answer this one:
“Is Twitter a de-facto member of the Democrat Party?"
Have the alternative teens discovered Fran Lebowitz?
At first I read that as if "the teens" had discovered an alternative to something in Lebowitz, but it turns out that "alternative teens" is (are?) a thing, to wit:
"Why do ‘alternative’ teenagers self-harm?"
Where is the trans Paul Lynde?
Where is the trans Charles Nelson Reilly?
THAT is how you make progress on acceptance.
I am Laslo.
"LOL. I was admiring them."
I would recommend not writing "umm" if you mean to express positivity!
On the internet, "umm" is considered so rude that there are places where you will get banned just for using it!
It works OK in sexting.
"To be a great artist is inherently right wing. A great artist like Dylan or Picasso may have some superficial, naive, lefty things to say, but underneath, where it counts, there is a strong individual, taking responsibility for his place in the world and focusing on that." - Ann Althouse
I'm enjoying the show now, after reading about it here. I could see her being embraced by kids not into the Woke uberculture.
And of course she thinks you're not really a woman if you're not born a woman. She talks in the show about how much of female identity is built around the experience of sexual harassment, of the sort of "play to pay" that existed even for even menial labor until a few decades ago. No "transwoman" can share this formative experience.
C'mon, we're tap-dancing around the subject on this, I think. The "problem" was that you wondered if I were making some lesbian-related sneer.
I'm fairly sure. Could be wrong, but....
But I liked the cufflinks. I liked the look! Your comment to me suggests a jump-to-conclusion reflex on sexuality, the negative, old-fashioned "straight" attitude you assumed I was expressing with that "umm." (Maybe it did need another m or two to clarify.)
So, if my interpretation here is correct, it should be me asking you about the problem.
I watched and enjoyed the Fran Leibowitz series. She's had a successful career as a non-writer. She gives talks, goes to parties, reads a lot of books, and travels on the private jets of friends. It's not such a bad living for a blocked writer. She looks outrageous but her views, or the ones she expressed in the series, were mostly level headed. I think the more outrageous parts of her persona just help to highlight the Judge Judy parts....In the series, iirc, she didn't once mention Donald Trump. It's a given that she despises him, but that wasn't the point of the show or her life.
Fernandinande asked...
"Why do ‘alternative’ teenagers self-harm?"
they don't, anymore.
Sure for years and years, self-harm was very high among alternative teens
Cutting
anorexia
suicide attempts
etc
but ALL that's Over now!
today's alternative teen doesn't self-harm... Zhey just surgically remove Zheir sex organs
There is a sociology paper, just waiting to be written about this; but, where would you get funding?
The same people who demand made-up pronouns are the same ones who use pejorative epithets like terf.
Umm is insulting but “terf” isn’t?
Alternative teens = "Goth, Emo, Punk".
Alternative teens = black nerds, esp girls
"You've got to understand that Lebowitz is a humorist." That ship sailed long ago. We do not make allowances for humor.
Humor is under assault. (See fake CNN correction furor.) Satire and parody are slowly being criminalized. No judge no jury, no sentence, but lives and reps are destroyed nonetheless.
There is absolutely nothing to celebrate about Candy Darling, who suffered a brutalized, short life.
I disagree. I’m told she never lost her head, even when she was giving head.
Banned for "umm"! Can "er" and "ahem" be in danger too? ("Give the Governor a 'harumph'").
" . . . traffics in fear and anger and hate. . ." Not like statists at all, no sir! That massive body count that always follows in their wake--magic!
Quit trying to make Lebowitz a thing.
This post, one of many, is a curated soft landing for deplorables facing the inevitable.
Howard is the new Chuck.
Howard is the new pig spit, wrapped in shit, and stuffed in a bloated possum corpse.
Joe Smith confirms that I hit Center Mass once again. Crying Uncle doesn't work here.
Lebowitz articulates the TERF position just about as explicitly as you can--that Candy isn't a woman, but a man tragically and fetishistically fixated on womanhood.... I suppose I am bringing it up because, as usual, it's that thing where an older cis lesbian has been just about as explicitly hateful towards trans people as you can be
I knew someone in the 90s who had had a sex change to female, and then decided "she" was a lesbian.
and found out that the vast majority of lesbians didn't want anything to do with a "woman trapped in a man's body", even if "he" no longer had a penis.
But, I really do love the intolerant bigotry of the Left on prominent display here. "Lesbians are good! But only if they do lesbianism exactly they way we think they should!"
There's going to be a LOT of civil wars over the next 4+ years. Because some people chose to give power to the most hateful and intolerant people on the planet: Leftists
No, they are too busy watching documentaries about Stephen Leacock and Petroleum V. Nasby.
Poor Howard. He "thinks" "its over tomorrow! All those stupid deplorables will lose with Trump out of the Oval Office! We'll have a clean and real road to power, and to do whatever we want!"
No Howard, you won't. You lefties spent the last four years violently and non-violently fighting to harm Trump for the "crime" of defeating Hillary. You established a lot of new rules, such as "it's perfectly acceptable to use violence to stop people from saying things I disagree with" (see Antifa), and "people who feel like they've been disenfranchised have a right to commit domestic political violence to try to reverse their disenfranchisement."
And: "It's not over until my side wins".
Don't worry, Howard. We're really good students. We've learned what you had to teach. I hope you enjoy us demonstrating what we've learned at least as much as we enjoyed having you teach us.
Sweet Dreams, Howard
"...Center Mass..."
Sounds very violent to me.
I would suggest you tone down the shooting rhetoric.
I am not intimidated by effeminate pundits such as yourself.
I liked the documentary. She tells a hilarious story about being invited to a dinner party for Leni reifenstahl.
This is one TERF war I don't have a dog (or a transsexual or a radical feminist) in.
Does Lebowitz really count as a "radical feminist," though? Or is she just another boring Lesbian?
I did like "BoJack" Horseman," but I always wondered about the name.
I guess it's the kind of thing somebody named "Bob-Waksberg" would think up, though.
"Or is she just another boring Lesbian?"
Yes she is...
Why can't we have posts about interesting lesbians like Camille Paglia?
The transgender spectrum from homosexual to neosexual is trendy.
if you didn't begin life as "a little girl."
Excellent....and axiomatic.
I have read that all arguments, at least on-line, are about definitions. A man pretending to be a woman is a woman or not, depending whose definition is used. Trump is an authoritarian fascist, or not, depending on whose definition rules. Like the Caterpillar in Alice in Wonderland said. It's all a matter of who is Master. In other words, who ever holds power determines the meaning of words and therefore the truth.
"Name one prominent Lefty that the Right has cancelled."
Name one prominent Lefty in government, (AOC and her "squad" excepted, as they are not prominently powerful agents within Congress).
Crack Emcee says:
"Fran hates Trump - fuck her."
She says she was friends with your step-father, for what it's worth.
ken in tx said...
//I have read that all arguments, at least on-line, are about definitions. A man pretending to be a woman is a woman or not, depending whose definition is used. Trump is an authoritarian fascist, or not, depending on whose definition rules. Like the Caterpillar in Alice in Wonderland said. It's all a matter of who is Master. In other words, who ever holds power determines the meaning of words and therefore the truth.//
I think it's Humpty Dumpty and Alice, but point taken.
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