So begins "The E-Scooter Is Part of a Balanced Transit Diet" (NY Magazine).
What was the disturbing vehicle that was around in 1820? It looked like this, idealized...
१३ डिसेंबर, २०२०
"Two centuries ago, a disturbing new two-wheeled contraption appeared on the streets of New York. Pedestrians and drivers of horse-drawn vehicles saw the velocipede as a cluttering, dangerous nuisance..."
"... and it was quickly banned. It took more than 40 years for it to reappear, this time as the bicycle. A century ago, a disturbing new four-wheeled contraption appeared on the streets of New York. Pedestrians and drivers of horse-drawn vehicles saw the automobile as a cluttering, dangerous nuisance, but they found it impossible to resist. Despite the suspicion, the entire city was redesigned to accommodate it: sidewalks were narrowed, traffic signs installed, rules written, roads built, and police officers’ job description changed. Now another kind of vehicle is joining the ecosystem of the streets...."
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It doesn't look like much for transportation, but maybe it stimulated the loins in a pleasing manner ...
Especially going over cobblestones ...
One of the more tired forms of argument: a long time ago, people said this thing that turned out to be wrong; therefore, people taying this other thing today are wrong.
I wonder what the advantage of the original bicycle was. Unless it can carry heavy objects--which the one pictured can't, I don't see how it helps. It's more like an oversized children's toy.
Well, anything that rolls is useful. One time my chain broke on the way to the U, as I was going through town, so I just stood on one pedal and pushed with the other, scooter-style. It was fun and I can totally see a grownup sized scooter for getting around urban areas.
I love the concept but it just seems too dangerous in practice for this guy in his sixties.
Looks to be a bit of a ball-buster...
There was a movie set in the 1820s that showed some fool riding one of these through a scene..wish I could remember what it was. It looked fun enough but certainly can't take hills or anything.
The lesson is not that nay-sayers existed and still exist. The lesson is context, new things create new demands for other, better, new things.
The early bicycles were mostly terrible on the loins -- no springs. Many carts and wagons had the same problem earlier but at least some carts were "sprung" to provide comfort to passengers and safe transit to cargo. Stripped to the minimum as bicycles were, there was little room or resource for springs. Enter Dunlop and the pneumatic tire. THEN the bikes got practical. Added things like brakes kick-stands and even the desired spring seats followed on. And the clutter of traffic led, as Ann's head post says, to new traffic policy and resources.
Without the better tires and roads, there could have been no self-propelled automobiles. The city nor any level of government was pushing for autos. But the thing that exploits the existing system? A very good opportunity indeed.
The city of New York hated the idea of passenger rail inside the city, and sneered at the idea of running those rails under the buildings. But business demanded communications, and tubes connected offices with little message capsules running back and forth. Some were pulled by cable, and some were shot with compressed air. The first "subway" rail line (for full sized capsules full of full sized passengers) was permitted under a fraudulently obtained zoning approval for another message tube. Penultimately three competing subway rail lines were running under the city, who objected and price-fixed and over-taxed, and minutely regulated every inch and hour of those operations. At some point, the private agencies felt so pressured they gave up and sold out to New York City itself, which cut staff and services and maintenance and plans for improvement and constantly raised fares.
Taxis limited by medallions give way to however many Lyft and Uber vehicles can fit into the streets. Regulated hotels are competing with Air BnB. Chefs and cafes and bistros, inspected and taxed and licensed, are dying while "ingredient-delivery" companies are flying under the radar. And the homeless eke out pennies of income selling loose black market cigarettes -- and soon possibly loose soda straws, shopping bags, "big gulp" drink ware.
The cities in theory are progressive, but in practice they HATE progress.
I assume that the e-scotters are Bird and Lyme. I have never used Lyme but did spend a week in Memphis 2 years back and used the Bird scooter a lot.
It is extremely convenient, easy to use and reasonably priced. I could walk out of my hotel, grab a scooter from a bunch on the corner, ride it down to Beale Street for dinner and, basically, abandon it.
Then, an hour later, do the same thing to get back to my hotel.
I had no trouble signing up and then figuring out how it worked. Push off so you are rolling, twist the handle and Robert is your father's brother. The key is to push off before twisting the handle.
I never felt unsafe, even in a crowd. The only time I felt unsafe was when I was videoing a "Whee, look at me" selfie in a park. Nobody around but I did almost crash.
There may be an argument for better management of them but I think they are generally a good idea.
John Henry
Tim maguire is correct. I had a careerful of psychotics who claimed to be prophets or even Jesus, with their main evidence being the fact that they were also persecuted.
When I say I never felt unsafe in a crowd, I meant that in addition to my personal safety, I never felt in danger of hitting anyone.
John Henry
Price in Memphis was, IIRC, 10 cents a minute for the scooter, charged to a credit card on record at Bird. Activated when you scanned a code with the app, deactivated when you scanned again.
Hotel (near Mud Island) to Beale Street was probably about 5 minutes or 50 cents.
John Henry
Doesn't matter. Soon all outer-party members will be pulling rickshaws for inner-party members.
In the late-19th century horses dropped three million pounds of manure and 40,000 gallons of urine per day on New York City streets. Those were the good old days before those darned polluting automobiles.
It must have been an environmental paradice.
Carol said...
There was a movie set in the 1820s that showed some fool riding one of these through a scene..wish I could remember what it was. It looked fun enough but certainly can't take hills or anything.
Was it Amistad? I seem to remember a scene with one.
E scooters should be great for those hardy new yorkers who like to dine outside in the freezing rain. Although Deblasio has put over 1000 restaurants out of business this year, so maybe there will be no place to ride the scooter to.
I'll be driving my F150 down to Tusk n Trotter for a plateful of ribs and fried pork skin...indoors sans mask.
Hotel (near Mud Island) to Beale Street was probably about 5 minutes or 50 cents.
i wonder how much that costed the Byrd Corp?
Would love to see their economic breakdown, so i could laugh at their assumptions
Authentic green, not Green, energy. They can attach a feedbag to ensure it is sustainable.
Let's play, fun with math!
if we assume $0.10/min, that means $6/hr ($0.10/min * 60min/hr == $6.00/hr)
I looked at the Althouse Portal, and looks like eScooters go from 2-6 hundred dollars...
Let's assume $300... And (for now), let's assume NO OTHER costs
Looks pretty good! Once we get 50 hours on an eScooter, we're in the Black!
Of course, GETTING the 50 hours Might take a little while
[if we take John Henry as our example, he went to Beale Street and back.
Comes to a dollar a day... 'course, he MIGHT have gone Other places too, but he might not have.]
a dollar a day means that it'd take a YEAR, or Two (depending on eScooter price) to pay off.
I guess if we do it in under 3 years, we're ahead of depreciation... So PROFIT!!
as long as...
A) Every Scooter gets used for (at least) 2 trips of (at least) 5 minutes EACH DAY
B) We don't have ANY OTHER COSTS
C) The eScooter doesn't get broken (or stolen)... Though, this is the same as B)
D) There's no legal ramifications Again, this is the same as B)
E) Electricity is ... the same as B)
F) Maintenance is ... the same as B)
So,
it looks like; from my quick questimations that Byrd is WELL ON THEIR WAY, to breaking even
depending on the breaks
E scooters have been around for a while - have seen them in Seattle for years. The problem is not the scooters themselves, but the fact that hundreds of rental units are dumped on a city, and renting them is cheap. Whenever human beings get their hands on an object that doesn't belong to them and is low cost, it is not treated well, left lying about, thrown into the lake, etc.
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In the late-19th century horses dropped three million pounds of manure and 40,000 gallons of urine per day on New York City streets. Those were the good old days before those darned polluting automobiles.
..and, billions of flies.
If you look closely at the street scenes in this video from 1911, you'll notice quite a bit of horse manure in the roadway. Switching to motorized vehicles had its advantages.
ALP is right. See also: Public restrooms, especially in places like subways or gas stations. And public streets. And public housing. People figure -- many, many too many people figure -- that if it isn't yours, it doesn't need to be treated well.
This isn't, btw, a libertarian "screw you, I've got mine" mindset; quite the reverse. The people who leave their messes around aren't libertarians, who know perfectly well that messes don't clean themselves up; they're "let the gummint do it, that's what we pay them for" types. Cf. the well-known (by now) photos of the National Mall after the 2009 Obama inauguration vs. after the big TEA Party rally. But these days any rally will do; I doubt the aftermath of Trump's rallies is much prettier than the aftermath of Obama's. People will literally drop a soda cup, candy wrapper, whatever three feet from a perfectly fine trash can, just for the hell of it. Who gives a shit?
Listened the other day to an interview with the late Walter Williams by Mark Steyn. Williams grew up in a public housing project in Philadelphia. But he did his growing up in the 40s, and it was, er, a little different from today's "public housing project in Philadelphia." Williams said, inter alia, that the closest thing you could find to graffiti on his building was the hopscotch patterns the kids sketched in chalk on the sidewalk.
In the late-19th century horses dropped three million pounds of manure and 40,000 gallons of urine per day on New York City streets. Those were the good old days before those darned polluting automobiles.
Looks like, in the late 19th Century, the population of NY City was about a Million people
Or, a eighth of what it is, today. So, think of Twenty Four million pounds of manure and 320,000 gallons of urine per day... This will be the Green New Deal
Bar Graph of the Growth of NY City
an oversized, upside-down rifle stock on wheels?
...that's what got their pantaloons in a bunch??
Speaking of rental scooters, for a while I saw quite a few of them, even out east here (six or seven miles from Beale St). Usually clusters at street corners, waiting to be picked up and readied again. But this year--probably COVID related--I've seen fewer.
I haven't tried one myself, and probably won't. It seems to me that some initial enthusiasm among the public wore off when people realized that the laws of physics are not negated for 50 and 60 y.o.'s to ride powered scooters.
Narr
Freiherr von Nutbuster, that's Krauts for you
"I wonder what the advantage of the original bicycle was."
Look at the person shown riding it. He is in a uniform. He is delivering a message. Faster than it can otherwise be delivered.
I'm healthy and fit, but at 62 my sense of adventure vis-a-vis riding a
scooter in downtown traffic is somewhat diminished.
Someone mentioned the economics of the business; here in Portland they pulled a few dozen out of the river earlier this year. Probably not producing much revenue while submerged.
What it needed was decent mittens for winter riding. Whose fingers aren't numb after 20 miles regardless of mitten-wear.
I myself am working on double mittens with a baggie lining between them.
Nevertheless you wind up having to retract thumb into fingers and ball up the hand, to keep the fingers warm.
A bicycle is the most efficient human power. All energy goes into forward motion, and the impedances are perfectly matched for task to muscle. You're not trying to paddle a canoe with a teaspoon or push an ocean liner from the dock, though you can do either with the right gearing.
"One of the more tired forms of argument: a long time ago, people said this thing that turned out to be wrong; therefore, people taying this other thing today are wrong."
Also known as Galileo's Revenge:
1. They said Galileo was a crackpot.
2. But actually he was a genius.
3. They say I, too, am a crackpot.
4. Therefore I, too, must be a genius!
In any case, the primary issues regarding e-scooters is not so much whether or not to allow them, but deciding where they may be used (Street? Sidewalk? Central Park?). And, if there are prohibitions, whether these can be implemented as effective real-world enforcement.
In any case, if you really want to ban them just demand that every one must be handicapped accessible.
oh oh!
Serious Question, for John Henry (or anybody else, if they know)
What about Helmets? Did you
a) WEAR a helmet?
b) HAVE TO wear a helmet?
c) did they provide a helmet?
We had the red electric assist bikes and the scooters out west in Sacramento. They were getting a lot of use. WithCOVIDI think the city or maybe governor Hairgel I took them off the streets. I’m not sure of the status now. My daughter rented one and I have it a whirl, up and down the street. It was fun, the scooter that is.
We had the red electric assist bikes and the scooters out west in Sacramento. They were getting a lot of use. WithCOVIDI think the city or maybe governor Hairgel I took them off the streets. I’m not sure of the status now. My daughter rented one and I have it a whirl, up and down the street. It was fun, the scooter that is.
Okay I checked. The city pulled them off the streets but they are back now. The owners are required to sanitize them twice a day.
Bike guy's colors look like DHL.
Narr
Livery-ally speaking
Gilbar,
I think there might have been a sticker on the scooter that suggested a helmet. I did not wear one and I am pretty sure there was no city requirement too.
I have VERY limited expertise here but I question whether a helmet is required. Unlike dismounting a bike, getting off a scooter is just a matter of putting a foot down. Sort of like getting on or off an escalator. It's not moving anywhere near as fast as a bike and stops as soon as you release the handlebar (or twist it off)
John Henry
I've used them when visiting Austin. They were convenient, but for folks my age (70+) I'd class them as risky, especially at night when eyesight matters. Road construction also poses problems. I'd also recommend wearing a helmet, I would have worn one if I had it. Uber is safer.
Serious Question, for John Henry (or anybody else, if they know)
What about Helmets?
Bird gives away free helmets to its users. $10 for shipping.
- Must have taken at least one ride
- Must live in a current Bird market
- One helmet limit per active rider
I once, many years ago, commuted to work on a bicycle without a crank, because I had taken it apart for a repair. It worked surprisingly well over the course of a couple mostly flat miles. You can take strides with stiff knees to build up speed, then rest your feet on the frame and coast. It would be too hard on your crotch without a place to put your feet up. You have to walk up hills, but you can coast back down with ease. I'm sure it looked ridiculous, but it was much faster than walking.
Thanx for the helmet info folks!
I was going Slow, when i hit my deer (well, slow for a motorcycle :) [45mph]
and with hindsight, wish i'd had been wearing my helmet
Bicycles go Way faster than you'd think, and people should wear helmets when riding
[remember! this is coming from a no helmet wearing, brain damaged motorcyclist]
I didn't realize that the eScooters went that much slower
Thanx Again!
Kudos to John Henry for slipping in the lovely Britishism, "Bob's your Uncle."
Regards — Cliff
Up until the 40's Seattle had the "mosquito fleet" that transported cars, trucks, and passengers all over Puget Sound. Private companies, lots of service, short lines. The state essentially drove the companies out of business and took it over.
Now the lines are long, the service is worse, and the costs keep ratcheting up. Delays of two or more hours are routine.
Progress!
I didn't realize that the eScooters went that much slower
But the suspension is stiff and the wheels are tiny, they don't roll over obstructions. A small pothole could send you flying.
I thought the "balance bike," the training wheel-less way to teach your kids to ride a bike, was a purpose built invention, but it looks like a smaller velocipede. If we're including e-scooters and such, what bout those gravity-defying scooter things you lean into? That seems to be the one banned mode of transport cops actually enforce.
Oh would that people realized that the laws of physics are not negated for snow, ice, and rain.
Rain is more dangerous than many drivers realize. Those lines "painted" on the street are not. They are reflective tape and they are VERY slippery when wet, which matters when you're on two wheels. I've dropped my motorcycle a couple of times from having the front brake engaged when encountering one of those lines, which are usually stop-lines in front of crosswalks, so speed-wise it wasn't a "crash", but it was embarrassing.
Someone mentioned the small wheels. I've seen a number of scooter crashes at railroad tracks that are not perpendicular to the street (we have at-grade passenger rail in Denver - our traffic managers are genius-level experts).
Denver is undergoing an insane "multi-modal" transport phase where they are stealing car lanes and turning them into bike/scooter lanes (or outdoor patios, but that's a different complaint). No one seems to understand that it snows here and one cannot (safely) ride bikes or scooters in the snow. It's not often (guestimate: about 20 working days per year), but a commuting vehicle is required to be 100% available.
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