८ डिसेंबर, २०२०

"John Lennon died at age 40, 40 years ago today. I did this blog post 12 years ago, linking to both of my parents' memories..."

"... of being in the same city where he died on December 8, 1980. Both of their posts mention that they named me John when I was born 99 days later. Now I'm almost 40 and I'm living on the Upper West Side, not far from where it happened on West 72nd Street. I've walked by there many times, always thinking about it, never quite believing it really happened here." 

Writes my son John (on his blog). Here's his old post, written in 2008, which links to his father's post, written in 2005, and to my post, also written in 2005. 

I wrote: 
On the day I heard that John had died, I was a law student at NYU. I remember dragging myself in to the law review office and expecting everyone there to be crying and talking about it, but no one was saying anything at all. I never felt so alienated from my fellow law students as I did on that day. I was insecure enough to feel that I was being childish to be so caught up in the story of the death of a celebrity long past his prime. I didn't even take the train uptown to go stand in the crowd that I knew had gathered outside the Dakota. What did I do? I can't remember. I probably buried myself in work on a law review article.... 
How I regret not going uptown to be among the people who openly mourned John Lennon! How foolish I was to think I was foolish to care and to put my effort into blending in with the law review editors who, I imagined, were behaving in a way I needed to learn!

Looking back at that reaction, I realize I was influenced by the shame I'd felt in 1977 when I showed my feelings about the death of Elvis Presley. Did I ever blog about that? It's something I've thought about lately, as I've reflected on my life. It turns out I blogged about that in 2005 — August 2005:

28 years ago Elvis died. August 16th isn't a date I keep in my head, but I was driving in my car, listening to the 50s channel and they were playing Elvis's Sun recordings and saying it's been 28 years. They played "Mystery Train." Very beautiful on a summer night. 

I got to thinking about that night 28 years ago. I had gone to bed early and was listening to the radio and heard that Elvis had died. I got up and got dressed and came out into the living room to say "Elvis died!" They looked at me like they thought I was stupid and said who cares? 

I didn't question their reaction but only felt ashamed of my own. I accepted their imputation that I was unsophisticated and immature. And a few years later, I'd developed a stoical exterior and kept quiet about the death of a person I cared far more about — and who had died — unlike Elvis — with shocking suddenness — murdered — and not after a long sad decline. 

These days, shuffling through my memories, I sometimes sink into a deep meditation about that night I heard that Elvis died. I think of how different it would have been if I'd believed in myself and the version of reality where people care that Elvis died. If I'd believed — and acted on my convictions — I don't think I'd have gone to law school at all, let alone endured the loneliness of grieving over John Lennon around people who were either grieving only internally or who would have sneered "Who cares?" just like my Elvis interlocutors. 

ADDED: Put on your bags and get 'em packed/Leave right now, you won't be far from wrong/The sooner you go the quicker you'll be back/You've been cooped up on an island far too long....

१२१ टिप्पण्या:

mccullough म्हणाले...

Nice post.

I was 8 at that time and remember the Iran Hostage debacle from that time and thought John Lennon’s murder was very sad.

President Reagan was also shot a few months later by another psycho.

FleetUSA म्हणाले...

A walk from NYU to the Dakotas would have been much more exhilarating.

YoungHegelian म्हणाले...

What I remember about the death of John Lennon was being back in Alabama visiting my parents for Christmas, and seeing a National Enquirer or the like displayed near the counter that showed Lennon's body on the morgue table with a very clear and graphic wound to his head on the front cover. I picked up a copy & took it to the store manager & told him he should be ashamed to put such a gruesome cover right where children could see it. Did he have absolutely no sense of Christian respect for the dead (an assumption that can be made more easily in Alabama...)?

The manager was dumbfounded. I have no idea if they moved the magazine or not after I left. I liked the Beatles (I had all their albums), and I liked Lennon in his own strange way. But, no human being deserves to have their corpse dishonored in such a fashion.

And don't even get me started on the gay porn on the end cap at Tower Records in Rockville.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

No thread jacking. I will delete. Go back to the last open thread if you want to talk about another subject. Or write your own blog. The subject is not the reporting of recent celebrity deaths.

Narr म्हणाले...

Not a huge fan of either artist, to tell you the truth, and felt no particular grief at their deaths.

A friend (a fellow librarian and a punk rock legend), and I started referring to the King as "Chalky White" after the truth came out.

Narr
His pre-Graceland home is a ten minute walk from here.



Carol म्हणाले...

I was playing in a big house band in Dallas and the bass player and I started crying when we heard about Lennon. I don't idolize these people, anyone really, but the Beatles were such a part of my youth.

The other guys thought it was hysterical. There was a lot of leftover resentment from the 60s still. Later a bouncer said hell I git it, I cried when John Wayne died. And I thought that was dumb too. What a comparison! How could he??

LOL

Howard म्हणाले...

Did you delete my Holden caulfield comment? I thought it was exactly on topic in two ways. One, what would smartass cynic Holden caulfield say in response to your deep emotional reaction death of John Lennon. Two is the fact that apparently the murderer of John Lennon was obsessed with catcher in the rye.

I am truly sorry if any of this offended you. Especially the sarcasm because when I listen to your podcasts you seem like a fairly sarcastic sounding lady.

Robert Cook म्हणाले...

Lennon's assassination occurred almost exactly six months before I moved to New York. I was in my bedroom at my parent's house, sitting at my drawing board with headphones on, listening to music as I drew. My younger brother came in and interrupted me to tell me what had happened. That's what dramatic events do: they pin in one's mind one's location and activity when the event took place.

Robert Cook म्हणाले...

"A friend (a fellow librarian and a punk rock legend), and I started referring to the King as "Chalky White" after the truth came out."

What truth? That Elvis was blonde?

Wince म्हणाले...

Althouse said...
I got up and got dressed and came out into the living room to say "Elvis died!" They looked at me like they thought I was stupid and said who cares?

Were those her birth parents or had Althouse already joined the Manson Family by then?

Readering म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Earnest Prole म्हणाले...

I was sitting in a dorm room in Oregon, half watching Monday Night Football with some friends, when Howard Cosell of all people told me John Lennon was dead. A few weeks later I returned to my (small) hometown by Greyhound bus with a magazine bag (remember those?) containing a copy of the Rolling Stone memorial issue with John and Yoko on the cover. My aunt picked me up at the station. I left the bag in her car while I ran into the bank to get some cash. When I returned the magazine had vanished. When I asked my aunt said she had thrown it in the trash because the magazine was pornographic.

wild chicken म्हणाले...

I was an early day, and there was one pic in Life magazine of the Beatles being received by the queen.

Right then I picked out John as my favorite. No reason, exactly, but I sensed he was intelligent. Turned out his family was as effed up as mine, too. Paul was the happy, blessed one.



wild chicken म्हणाले...

FAN not day geez

Wikitorix म्हणाले...

And a few years later, I'd developed a stoical exterior and kept quiet about the death of a person I cared far more about

Really, though, you didn't care about either John Lennon or Elvis. You cared about their music, and made up a fantasy version of both men that you were a little bit in love with, but you didn't know either one of them. Picture either one of them being angry at a driver who just cut them off (for example). What would they sound like? What curses would they use? I'm sure that's not something you ever pictured your fantasy John or Elvis doing. Both men were human, though, and they had the full spectrum of human emotions.

This is a problem for celebrities. They're constantly surrounded by "adoring fans" who don't know anything about the person - they only know about the manufactured public persona pushed by publicists and magazine editors and music labels/movie studios/whatever.

It's also a problem for fans. People get emotionally invested in somebody that doesn't really exist, and the real person who looks exactly like that fantasy version can only disappoint them.

mccullough म्हणाले...

John Lennon was born Oct 9, 1940. Killed December 8, 1940.

It will be a few more months before he has been dead longer than he lived.

mccullough म्हणाले...

Killed on December 8, 1980.

Charlie Eklund म्हणाले...

In 62 or 63 days, the sun will rise on a world where John Lennon has been dead longer than he was alive. Sad.

Bud Pomeroy म्हणाले...

I was in Madison, WI. Living in an apartment on Langdon St. I walked over to Rocky Roccoco's on State Street and ordered a couple of slabs and sat down in front of the projection screen TV to watch Monday Night Football and dine. For years I seemed to remember it as first learning that he had been shot, leaving the pizza joint and walking home to hear that he had died. But then a few years ago the ABC producer who sourced the story to the network and Cosell wrote a fully detailed report of how it went down (producer injures himself in bicycling accident in central park - is taken to the same hospital where Lennon was taken and overhears two police officers talking about it in the hall.) Then I went to YouTube and watched the excerpts from MNF and realized that they announced he had died in the part I saw at Rocky's and so the long stroll back to home ( a week to week apartment rental - dive living) was with the knowledge that he was dead. My thoughts at that time were like my thoughts today - why didn't a guy with that kind of $$$ have security? In NYC in 1980 - things were rough. Hard to believe that you buy the Dakota Apartment, but you don't hire an off duty NYC officer to shield you. His killer had been hanging out in front of the residence earlier, before Lennon went to the studio, and a respectable security person would have recognized that second appearance as unusual and scrutinized Chapman further. But then we might not have had this exercise every December 8th.

Unknown म्हणाले...

I looked at his father's blog; it hasn't been updated in 10 years. One of the last posts is about having to wear a mask to stop the spread of H1N1:

http://richardlawrencecohen.blogspot.com/2009/11/masked-neocolonialist.html

Seems like this debate has been going on longer than I realized: "we informed them that masks had been shown to be of zero value, but they weren't listening"

Sebastian म्हणाले...

"but only felt ashamed of my own"

This explains a lot. Almost as much as the mini skirt incident.

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

As your readers, we appreciate the fact that you are not a one dimensional law person. The popular culture is very important to American life. And that's what this blog is about: The fullness and richness of American life.

Now, what's your EXPERT analysis on the SCOTUS case of TX v. WI, MI, GA and PA?

FullMoon म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Michael Ryan म्हणाले...

I definitely remember the Elvis death, as I was just entering into Shreveport on I-20. It was Elvis music all evening on my way to New Orleans, through little town after little town.

अनामित म्हणाले...

I am 63 and like many (not in NYC) was mainly just bummed that it ended the Beatles reunion possibilities which would never have happened really. Lots of our cultural icons died early.

WhoKnew म्हणाले...

I remember when Lennon died and what I remember thinking is "what the heck is wrong with all these people getting so emotional over the death of someone they didn't really know". Then, in 1984, I heard on the radio just before I left for work that Steve Goodman had died. I was bummed out all day and I thought, now I know a little bit about how those Lennon mourners felt.

Greg Hlatky म्हणाले...

Elvis died too late.

Lennon, another filthy-rich inveigher against wealth.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne म्हणाले...

Wikitorix said...

Really, though, you didn't care about either John Lennon or Elvis. You cared about their music, and made up a fantasy version of both men that you were a little bit in love with, but you didn't know either one of them. Picture either one of them being angry at a driver who just cut them off (for example). What would they sound like? What curses would they use? I'm sure that's not something you ever pictured your fantasy John or Elvis doing. Both men were human, though, and they had the full spectrum of human emotions.

I used to know a bunch of Dad Band types who would sit around and fantasize about the kind of music that Jimi Hendrix would be playing if he was still alive. Being of a perverse and cynical nature I used to always point out that if he were still alive he might be reduced to playing Branson, MO. Needless to say, they didn't like me very much.

Jim Grey म्हणाले...

This was the first major celebrity death of my lifetime, or at least that I remember. I was 13. Life felt unreal somehow in the wake of the news, which I found out about on the school bus, of all places. The driver had the radio on and it came over the news. There was a collective moan/cry among the riders and then silence the rest of the ride.

I found some understanding in my mom, who was a big Beatles fan.

The next major celebrity death for me hit harder, as I absolutely adored the voice of Karen Carpenter. I was alone when I saw this very news brief (link below) on ABC and had nobody to talk to while I sobbed openly. That one, my parents both did act as though I'd sprouted a second head when I expressed my grief.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtS1s3_VAKE

Crazy that someone happened to be recording on that night, and crazy that it made its way onto YouTube 30 years later.

donald म्हणाले...

“sensed he was intelligent”.

He was a vapid song and dance man. The best thing he ever did was the Rock N Roll album.

boatbuilder म्हणाले...

I had a great financial aid job at college-catologuing and shelving new periodicals. I got to read everything. I remember reading a piece in Esquire (I think) about Lennon rejecting a lot of his youthful idiocies and saying that he was more conservative.
When I heard he was shot I thought-wow,some lefty nut job shot him because of that article.
Turns out it was just a standard apolitical nut job. Sad all around in any event.

Temujin म्हणाले...

Great post on many levels.

I don't get moved much by celebrities passing on. We all pass on. Or...we all shine on. Instant Karma's gonna get you. Gonna knock you off your feet. But when Lennon died, that stopped me. It was the end of that era of my life. Our lives. It meant, no going back.

I still think about it from time to time.

rehajm म्हणाले...

I was with friends and the TV was tuned to a NYC station. 'Isn't he the jerk?' I asked.

Debatable even today...

Clark म्हणाले...

I was living (for a few weeks) in an old Swiss farmhouse in Ringoldingen in the Simmental (in the Bernese Oberland). I took the train down to Spiez just to walk a bit amongst fellow humans and to catch up on the news. I read about it in the International Herald Tribune. Definitely a remember-where-you-were moment.

William म्हणाले...

I had a friend who mourned for John Lennon in the proper way and the proper amount. I made fun of her grief. I'm not regretful for not properly mourning the passing of Lennon, but I regret my my kidding of her. In any event, if one of your big regrets in life is not properly mourning the passing of John Lennon, then you had a pretty good ride.....The death of Elvis was seriocomic. There was something absurd and sad about it. It was a celebrity kind of death. It didn't inspire pity and terror, just bathos and gossip.....I've always regretted that I liked the Kingston Trio better than Elvis, but I carry on.

RigelDog म्हणाले...

Every time I see the video for the (wonderful) song The End of the Line by the Traveling Wilburys I get a happy lift from the song and the lyrics, but it's colored by wistfulness and melancholy for the fact that so many of those artists are now gone.

I have in mind some songs for any memorial service that my family might hold at the time of my eventual demise. This song is one of them.

"...Well, it's alright, even if you're old and grey,
Well, it's alright, you still got something to say.
Well, it's alright, remember to live and let live,
Well, it's alright, the best you can do is forgive.

Well, it's alright (alright), riding around on the breeze,
Well, it's alright (alright), if you live the life you please.
Well, it's alright, even if the sun don't shine,
Well, it's alright (alright), we're going to the end of the line."

YoungHegelian म्हणाले...

The one "celebrity" whose death affected me most was the suicide of the Early Music "superstar", David Munrow, in 1976. I had seen him live in Toronto in February, 1976 just three months before he committed suicide.

By my junior year of college, which is when he died, I had all of the recordings by him & the Early Music Consort of London, and I played the shit out of them (I still play the Gloria from Dufay's Missa Se Le Face ay Pale by the Consort when I need a pep-up). I remember reading of his death in Stereo Review, and being, if not at tears, all verklempt. His magisterial three volume set, Music of the Gothic Era, released late in the year of his death, is dedicated to his memory.

Lloyd W. Robertson म्हणाले...

That's quite a post. You went to law school partly to live up to expectations of people who seemed more sophisticated than you? Is that a rebellious Trumpian coming to the surface? I know, you haven't voted for Trump.

I've never really been caught up in the Elvis phenomenon or the Lennon phenomenon. On Elvis: give me the early stuff, "Little Sister," "Blue Moon of Kentucky," "That's Alright Momma." Mixing or fusing black R and B with white roots or bluegrass.

On Lennon: sorry but I like a joke of Seinfeld's. Manhattan, to a remarkable extent, produces these people who can't imagine moving. There's something about the location and amenities--beginning, of course, with being in Manhattan. If I were to move, where would I go? The most extreme example: Yoko Ono, whose husband was murdered on the front steps of her building.

I did quote Lennon at my son's wedding in August. To the world you may be only one person; but to one person you can be the world.

Whiskeybum म्हणाले...

I had been married for about 7 months at the time, living in married student housing. I remember the radio alarm going off on the morning of Dec. 9th, and hearing a few John Lennon songs being played in a row. That was not a normal radio-play format, and it gave me a feel of dread - did something happen? The deejay then broke the news...

Earlier, in September 1980, another music celebrity death had stunned me - the drummer of my favorite rock group had died in his sleep. News of John Bonham's death also reached me via radio. Unlike with the Beatles and John Lennon's death, Led Zeppelin were still together and producing albums. That ended abruptly right after Bonham's death.

wild chicken म्हणाले...

"I've always regretted that I liked the Kingston Trio better than Elvis,"

I never did have a thing for Elvis. I thought chuck berry and little richard were more fun, and more talented.

Kirk Parker म्हणाले...

Just getting settled in temporary quarters in Maridi, [South] Sudan. No idea when I heard about Lennon, news traveled to the outer reaches of the Fourth* World a lot slower in those days.

---------------------------
*Yes, that's intentional. After 17 years of Civil War, Sudan--at least the southern parts of it--really were an entire step down from countries like Kenya.

Charlie म्हणाले...

I was working for a small company in Boston and the guy who ran the company died that same day in a plane crash, flying back from Atlantic City in a small plane. We all got laid off a few days later.

stevew म्हणाले...

I don't know if it is me or the time I was born and raised but I've never experienced much emotion when people I don't know, and particularly celebrities, die. I've never been that invested in them.

On the morning after Lennon's killing I was getting ready for work and heard the news on the television. Mrs. stevew and I had been married just shy of four months, and had moved into the apartment we were in that Dec 1. I recall being shocked at the manner in which Lennon was killed. Shocked because he was a musical artist and so totally inoffensive; it made no sense to me that someone would want to kill him.

Rusty म्हणाले...

I heard Trump shot him.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

“ Did you delete my Holden caulfield comment?”

Yes. It seems like cheap shitting on the post. As the first comment, it was bad. It didn’t really say anything as you expansion confirms.

wild chicken म्हणाले...

"He was a vapid song and dance man"

He could dance, no shit?

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

'” Were those her birth parents....”

I was 26 and not around my parents.

Who wouldn’t say who cares. That wasn’t their style. Hard to imagine what they’d say in that situation. Maybe they’d ask me what I thought.

traditionalguy म्हणाले...

When Elvis died the first thought was why so young. It turned out to be performance drugs. He always wanted to do his best show for us. Viva Las Vegas is still worth watching. The man could sing anything with perfect intonation and emotion. Imagine Elvis’s voice and Dylan’s lyrics. No one could compete.

Oh Yea म्हणाले...

I always thought is was an injustice that Elvis's death overshadowed Groucho Marx's 3 days later.

bagoh20 म्हणाले...

I remember Lennon's death. A typical cold gray Western Pennsylvania December day. I'm not the kind to get emotional about a celebrity. It was my senior year and I just left college, was unemployed, and it was already one of the lowest points in my life, and that news sure didn't help.

readering म्हणाले...

Like AA I was in NYC at the time. Living just 2 miles away and even with a car. But didn't go to join the crowd. Just out of law school, not even admitted yet, I had the car to be able to drive to Westchester for long hours preparing for a big antitrust case going to trial the next month. But much affected. Not old enough to understand when they broke up, I used to hang on every rumor of a Beatles reunion, and would tell people that in rock, there was The Beatles, and then there was everyone else. So senseless, and at one of the most picturesque intersections in Manhattan to boot.

DavidUW म्हणाले...

I don’t understand crying about the deaths of people you’ve never met.

Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...

"I've always regretted that I liked the Kingston Trio better than Elvis,"

“I never did have a thing for Elvis. I thought chuck berry and little richard were more fun, and more talented.”

Actually, I liked Elvis better than the Beatles, and probably liked Buddy Holly and The Beach Boys even more. The Beatles were more a girl thing, esp since they were enough older than us, that we (including Ann) were mostly in Jr High when they were probably at their most popular.

My partner’s father and his brother were avid Elvis fans. So she was predisposed not to appreciate him. But she ran the florist store at one of the big hotels in Las Vegas while in college, and ran into the stars performing there. Most were pretty blah. She got to know Bill Cosby and his family decently well (she often snuck them into the hotel through her flower shop). But then she ran into Elvis, he gave her a couple front row tickets, and a backstage pass. And she got the performance of a lifetime. Then, backstage that night, he gave her the scarf he had worn in stage. She claims to never have experienced as strong pheromones in her life. Most stars she met in town inevitably hit on her. Not Cosby, and not Elvis. He was the perfect southern gentleman. This was a year or so before his death.

Since then, she started collecting his music. She still has some unopened records of his, and we are getting out his Christmas CD. WE both love his music better now, than we did when he died.

Robert Cook म्हणाले...

"Lennon, another filthy-rich inveigher against wealth."

When did Lennon inveigh against wealth?

Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...

I don’t remember Lennon’s death, except that it happened. But not where I was, or what I was doing. Ditto for when Jack and Bobby were killed. My memories of JFK’s death was thinking that this meant that we had to put away our First Family parody record. Damn, it was funny. Found it a couple years ago, going through my parents’ stuff after my father died. I didn’t think that he was that good of a President, and my impression of him and his Presidency has slid even lower after some of the tawdry details came out.

Meade म्हणाले...

traditionalguy said...
When Elvis died the first thought was why so young. It turned out to be performance drugs. He always wanted to do his best show for us. Viva Las Vegas is still worth watching. The man could sing anything with perfect intonation and emotion. Imagine Elvis’s voice and Dylan’s lyrics. No one could compete.

Bob Dylan: “The highlight of my career? That's easy, Elvis recording one of my songs.”

Meade म्हणाले...

When I first heard Elvis’ voice I just knew that I wasn’t going to work for anybody; and nobody was going to be my boss. He is the deity supreme of rock & roll religion as it exists in today’s form. Hearing him for the first time was like busting out of jail.
I think for a long time that freedom to me was Elvis singing “Blue Moon of Kentucky”. I thank God for Elvis.
– Bob Dylan 1987

Rusty म्हणाले...

Blogger Robert Cook said...
"Lennon, another filthy-rich inveigher against wealth."

"When did Lennon inveigh against wealth?"
Imagine.

Howard म्हणाले...

Thanks Althouse. It's hared to troll you.

Marcus Bressler म्हणाले...

Not that it matters to anyone, but my take:

I thought Lennon's death was tragic and the first thing that came to my selfish mind was there goes any hope of a Beatles reunion.

RFK's death affected me more, probably due to my age at the time and my father's idolization of the Kennedys. He took the day off to travel from South Jersey to go to NYC and St. Patrick's Cathedral to walk past the casket.

I have met many celebrities in my lifetime and have always shown them respect and treated them as normal as I would any person I would meet. I'm polite and respectful of their privacy and have never asked for an autograph. I became close to one famous person and got a "put away my idols" lesson when he misinterpreted something I wrote and then left a message on my answering machine, calling me a "fucking jerkoff". We reconciled a week later, but it was a wakeup call not to put people on a pedestal. Except women, whose skirts you could look up if you did that (thanks, Steve Martin).

Christopher J Feola म्हणाले...

The Beatles were really before my time-heck, Wings was breaking up by the time I was in college-but my friend was heartbroken. He was a huge Beatles fan, and had every one of their LPs. But no car. So I agreed to drive him into Manhattan from Southhampton College (About 100 miles east of Manhattan on Long Island, New York). We drove past the Dakota after dark in the old blue 66 Coupe de Ville, and then into Central Park. There were, reports said later, more than 1 million people there, most holding candles. We had all the windows down, and it was dead silent. Gives me goosebumps to this day, that silence.

Jim at म्हणाले...

I remember Elvis' death only because I'd had my paper route for less than a month, it was an afternoon paper then and dozens of my customers were calling to complain their paper was late.

Why? Because they had to hold the presses to put in a small blurb on the front page announcing the death. The next day it was the entire front page.

Rabel म्हणाले...

"I was insecure enough to feel that I was being childish to be so caught up in the story of the death of a celebrity long past his prime."

"I didn't question their reaction but only felt ashamed of my own. I accepted their imputation that I was unsophisticated and immature."

In each case you yielded to the opinions of those you felt were cool and sophisticated.

You're still doing it, but I see some improvement.

Meade म्हणाले...

“I never met Elvis,” Dylan says. “I never met Elvis, because I didn’t want to meet Elvis. Elvis was in his Sixties movie period, and he was just crankin’ ’em out and knockin’ ’em off, one after another. And Elvis had kind of fallen out of favor in the Sixties. He didn’t really come back until, whatever was it, ’68? I know the Beatles went to see him, and he just played with their heads. ‘Cause George [Harrison] told me about the scene. And Derek [Taylor], one of the guys who used to work for him. Elvis was truly some sort of American king. His face is even on the Statue of Liberty. And, well, like I said, I wouldn’t quite say he was ridiculed, but close. You see, the music scene had gone past him, and nobody bought his records. Nobody young wanted to listen to him or be like him. Nobody went to see his movies, as far as I know. He just wasn’t in anybody’s mind. Two or three times we were up in Hollywood, and he had sent some of the Memphis Mafia down to where we were to bring us up to see Elvis. But none of us went. Because it seemed like a sorry thing to do. I don’t know if I would have wanted to see Elvis like that. I wanted to see the powerful, mystical Elvis that had crash-landed from a burning star onto American soil. The Elvis that was bursting with life. That’s the Elvis that inspired us to all the possibilities of life. And that Elvis was gone, had left the building.”
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/bob-dylans-late-era-old-style-american-individualism-90298/

JAORE म्हणाले...

"Really, though, you didn't care about either John Lennon or Elvis. You cared about their music, and made up a fantasy version of both men that you were a little bit in love with, but you didn't know either one of them."

Spot on. I was a fan of much of the music he helped make. But his musical hold on me was gone by the time of his death. And I never understood the development of deep personal feelings about (the public persona of) people you have never met.

The peak of that form of insanity, to me was the death of Princess Di. Three of the women in our neighborhood met in our cul-de-sac and openly wept at their loss.

paminwi म्हणाले...

Never cared about either death.
Still don’t understand the people you see around the “Strawberry Fields” thing in Central Park crying?
Really?
I will listen to an Elvis song if it’s on the radio versus John Lennon. For him I change the channel.

Lem Vibe Bandit म्हणाले...

Some years ago I recall a picture Althouse took of a very old tree, that, was so old it was probably around the founding of our VERY dear nation, the USA.

Althouse captioned the photograph saying she cried.

Lem Vibe Bandit म्हणाले...

My comment fall under the #emotionalAlthouse umbrella.

Narr म्हणाले...

"Chalky White" was the description of the impacted feces that Elvis was trying to pass when he passed. Apparently his longterm habit of polypharmacy led to a common problem-- slowing and eventual loss of bowel movement.

That's from James Cole and a coauthor's The Death of Elvis.

For the life of me I can't recall the circumstances of either day.

Narr
They were just celebrities to me

Gracelea म्हणाले...

I remember that Christmas, I and my siblings (all 20 somethings) were at my parents' for the holiday. My mom commented that we all seemed subdued, and my brother said 'We're sad because John Lennon is gone'. Mom was incredulous; she said 'Well, it's not like you knew him, really'. I don't think we answered, but each of us thought 'Oh, yes I did'.

I don't feel that way about music anymore, but it's a great gift when artist and audience can communicate that way.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

I've been pondering on the Beatles song Piggies;

"Everywhere there's lots of piggies, living piggie lives.
You will see them out for dinner, with their piggie wives
Clutching forks and knives,
To eat their bacon."

Do you suppose, that if John and his charming, talented and vivacious consort Yoko were enjoying a pleasant meal at a sidewalk bistro, when a vermin of BLM approached, waving their fists and chanting their idiot slogans, the poisonous rabble would recognize John and Yoko as fellow revolutionaries?

Actually, George wrote Piggies.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne म्हणाले...

Jupiter said...

Do you suppose, that if John and his charming, talented and vivacious consort Yoko were enjoying a pleasant meal at a sidewalk bistro, when a vermin of BLM approached, waving their fists and chanting their idiot slogans, the poisonous rabble would recognize John and Yoko as fellow revolutionaries?

Everyone forgets:

But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

Yes he wrote "Imagine", but he also wrote the above. Lennon was about what was piquing his interest at the moment; so he would have been just as likely to march off with BLM as he would have been to sic his bodyguards on them. Don't get lost in the mythologized Lennon.

Sprezzatura म्हणाले...

It’s nice that golden years folks jabber about their olden days champions.

Today I (by myself sans telling someone else to do it) got the new Post Malone Crocs. Not that it was too hard, just got in line and watched the countdown (on a side monitor) that was showing how long until I’d get my chance to buy (it took more than an hour). The PM Crocs are a gift for someone else.

Presumably on-line special edition colab product drops were not a thing w/ Beatles and Elvis. And such.

Anywho, when we yutes turn into old folks, I think that we’ll have a different relationship re our celebrities v y’all and yur stars.

IMHO.

gilbar म्हणाले...

Marcus said...
not to put people on a pedestal. Except women, whose skirts you could look up if you did that


Question: What's the first thing you look for, in a woman?
Answer: Depends if she's walking towards me, or away

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

It was my parents' wedding anniversary. It was still early-ish in the evening.

I was parked in my car, listening to the radio coverage as I composed myself before walking into the house after an evening of drinking/smoking...

mikee म्हणाले...

My semi-rural, semi-suburban home is on a circular street that used to be outside the suburbs of Charlotte and is now surrounded by them. About twenty years ago, and again about a year ago, a dead body was dumped in a vacant lot on our street by murderers. They were both found by my brother while he was walking his dog (two different dogs, 20 years apart) around the block. Death happens and it happens violently rather a lot. Because of the large numbers of violent deaths, and other factors such as the convenience of my street's vacant lots, my brother has had to call the police for two murders while being completely uninvolved with either one. Such is life, I guess. I found a quarter in a parking lot last week. Go figure.

John Lennon was shot on December 08. Reagan was shot on March 30. Ford got lucky on September 05 with Squeaky Fromme, who didn't know how to use a semiautomatic Colt 1911.

LA_Bob म्हणाले...

I picked up a fellow temp on the way to work on Tuesday morning. He laid an LA Times on his lap and directed my attention to the headline. I discovered I carried an unexpressed belief in conspiracies.

"They shot John Lennon!" I burst out.

I'd been 26 for just over a month. Reagan's election had been my birthday present (as Trump's re-election would have been). I had just recently seen Elton John at the Fabulous Forum, and he had sung Imagine. I was also finishing my undergrad degree with a team-based project. We had heard a long interview with Lennon and Yoko Ono at one team-member's house, and she remarked she could never have married a man like him. Too hyper. Too full of himself.

One thing earned him my respect. Somewhere I read -- or heard, maybe in that long interview -- that he would walk home with Yoko in the evenings and sometimes draw a crowd. "It's sad, really," he said. "All those people with nothing better to do."

He was full of himself but not entirely full of himself.

Narr म्हणाले...

Me, I spent the day wearing in my new pair (one of two, in lighter and darker shades of brown) of Margaritaville shoes. 'Cause Jimmy Buffett branded apparel, made alas in China (I hate it but they're very comfortable and 2 pair for $98 at Rack Room after trying on maybe three other types, and I'd already been there 30 minutes and they'll probably last me 5 or 6 years) is important to display. The branding is actually pretty discreet, including a little palm tree icon reminiscent to me of the emblem of the Deutsches Afrikakorps of WWII.

What was this thread about?

John Lennon acted in at least one anti-war movie (but as the saying goes, all "anti-war" movies are really just war movies); Elvis as a GI in Germany in the late 50's was assigned to a tank unit, and made a movie about a contemporary soldier in a tank unit, "G I Blues" in 1960.

As singing Southerner GI Tulsa Mclean, he woos and wins at-first reluctant local dancer Lili (Juliet Prowse).

McLean is a major Memphis street in Midtown, and the movie had some of the Memphis Mafia also.

Narr
Thus the too-seldom heard cry of astonishment, "Sweet Elvis in a Tank!"

Rosalyn C. म्हणाले...

Can't help but wonder if the Cruel Neutrality stance is an outcome of early shaming? AKA Defence mechanisms of everyday life.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...
"Lennon was about what was piquing his interest at the moment; so he would have been just as likely to march off with BLM as he would have been to sic his bodyguards on them."

I don't think Lennon had any bodyguards. Imagine there's no rough men standing ready.

boatbuilder म्हणाले...

Thanks for "Blue Moon of Kentucky," Meade.

The man could sing.

I remember in my late teens I thought that Bruce Springsteen was pretty much the greatest thing since sliced bread. I got over it. Bruce has helped the process along. Every time I hear about whatever his latest "project" is I am embarrassed for my young and foolish self.

boatbuilder म्हणाले...

Although I do still belt out "Thunder Road" when there's nobody around to hear me.

Sprezzatura म्हणाले...

“Can't help but wonder if the Cruel Neutrality stance is an outcome of early shaming? AKA Defence mechanisms of everyday life.”

This is a blog w/ a con/Trumpy audience.

So the defense mechanism would be required to keep the audience happy. Hence, Cruel Neutrality is a way of gently bringing in some reality even though con/Trumpy folks are trying to hide from such when they congregate at this blog.

I can see that.

Just look at the post about the tennis court building. Somehow that got into jabbering about BHO and minorities playing tennis. WTF? That stuff was a defense mechanism to keep snowflake cons/Trumpys coddled in their blog bubble known as Althouse. Evaluated on the merits that jabber/speculation was complete shit. It added nothing real or meaningful, other than making cons/Trumpys feel better. Snowflakes.

IMHO.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

"How I regret not going uptown to be among the people who openly mourned John Lennon!"

At one point in my adolescence, I wrote a long letter to Kurt Vonnegut Jr, expressing how much reading Cat's Cradle had meant to me. I sent it to his publisher, and of course, received no reply.

Well, except. Many years later, I read a magazine interview with Vonnegut, in which he mentioned how lots of crazy teenagers wrote impassioned letters to him after Cat's Cradle was published. He couldn't imagine why. He figured it must have something to do with what they called the "counterculture".

Browndog म्हणाले...

Odd that this is getting so much attention today.

Rumpletweezer म्हणाले...

The Kennedy assassination happened when I was in fourth grade. I remember our teacher telling us. I also remember we got a couple of days off school.

I remember Bobby Kennedy being shot because I was watching the televised coverage of his winning the California primary. My father and I went to see the train carrying his body to Washington.

John Lennon was my favorite Beatle but I don't remember where I was when I heard he'd been killed.

eddie willers म्हणाले...

The Kennedy assassination happened when I was in fourth grade. I remember our teacher telling us. I also remember we got a couple of days off school

He was killed on a Friday. We all got two days off.

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

Your son needs lessons in headline writing.

"It was 40 years ago today."

That's it. Simple.

Political Junkie म्हणाले...

I was born in 1970, summer. Might have been watching MNF when JL was shot. Maybe I have made that up in my memory. Not a Beatle fans or a music fan back then. Can't remember my emotions.

However, the Anwar Sadat assassination I remember hearing about in 6th grade Social Studies, and that really bothered me for some reason. Not sure why.

Skippy Tisdale म्हणाले...

On December 1, 1980, I and three friends were in Central Park across the street from the Dakota. We wondered what sort of folks lived there. Sadly, seven days later, when I saw the building on the news, I found out.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Its interesting that Rush Limbaugh had a big discussion on the death of Lennon. Seems he was a big Beatles fan, and was watching Monday football when it happened. He embedded clips of Howard Cosell reacting to the news Live in 1980 into the write-up.

Here's part of what Rush says about how he felt that night in 1980:

Okay. We’re back to Joe in Detroit, who wanted to ask me [Rush Limbaugh] what I thought of the death of John Lennon and his legacy 40 years ago. Look. I was like everybody else; I was stunned; I was shocked. Who in the world would want to shoot one of the Beatles? It didn’t make any sense.

Now, I knew, when I was growing up, I was a deejay when the Beatles hit. I got my first job as a deejay in 1966, and the Beatles hit ’63, ’64, I Saw Her Standing There, I Want to Hold Your Hand, and all that. And then here came Let it Be and the different direction the Beatles took that hit in the seventies, Hey Jude and so forth.

I worked with a guy, Joe, who literally thought John Lennon was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. He really thought it. And I said, “Are you serious about this, dude?”

“Yes, yes. He is the reincarnation Jesus Christ.” So I knew there were people out there who really elevated Lennon to a lofty height that I don’t think Lennon — I don’t think he thought he was Jesus Christ. Do you?

Rhonda म्हणाले...

Have you ever blogged on people’s list of where were you when xxxxxx, (famous person for whatever reason) died? I’m 60 so I don’t remember JFK, they said I asked why cartoons weren’t on that Saturday when the nation mourned. MLK, RFK a blur at 8, heard that news hours and hours after it happened, Elvis I was 17 working as a lifeguard when the radio told me, Lennon I was watching MNF game at college where Howard Cosell told the world. And don’t get me started on Reagan.....what a cluster of media inaccuracy live that was....

rcocean म्हणाले...

I never would've tagged Rush Limbaugh for a big Beatles fan, but y'know he was 11 y/o when they came to the USA, and it probably made a big impression on him. As for myself, I was just 15, and didn't care about John Lennon. To me, he was some super-old rock and roll guy from the 60s. And I don't even remember Elvis dying. Later, in the late 80's we visited Graceland, and I was amazed how choked up many of the people were at visiting Elvis' Home.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Strangely my mother, became a Beatles fan late in life, when she almost 40. She even read a book about Lennon by some guy called Goldman. I think. Anyone, he was some New York music critic, who very snippy and snide about Lennon and their music. which upset her. She was even more angry about his Elvis book.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Looking at it from a cold-blooded perspective, Rock n Roll and Pop/jazz musicians do almost all their good work before the age of 40. I doubt Lennon had much great music left in him, and the same is true of Elvis. If Bob Dylan had died at 40, would the music world have lost much? The same is probably true of Lennon.

Narr म्हणाले...

"Just look at the post about the tennis court building."

No. You're not the boss of me.

I do recall very vividly the JFK assassination-- we were in the cafetorium at Sea Isle Elementary, waiting for the noon-day slop. More than that, the Sunday on Oma's living room floor (after church?) when Ruby took out Oswald live on TV.

MLK in '68 is only distinct in memory for the rabid racist talk that went up several notches from the worst lot but not only them; fearful rumor of race war etc etc. among many in our white neighborhoods. The incident in early '68 that brought him to Memphis in the first place took place just two blocks from my junior high school (I was in eighth grade) and only about 1.5 miles from here.

RFK barely registers in the where-was-I? banks.

Narr
Thankyaveramuch

Iman म्हणाले...

About twenty years ago, and again about a year ago, a dead body was dumped in a vacant lot on our street by murderers. They were both found by my brother while he was walking his dog (two different dogs, 20 years apart) around the block. Death happens and it happens violently rather a lot. Because of the large numbers of violent deaths, and other factors such as the convenience of my street's vacant lots, my brother has had to call the police for two murders while being completely uninvolved with either one. Such is life, I guess. I found a quarter in About twenty years ago, and again about a year ago, a dead body was dumped in a vacant lot on our street by murderers. They were both found by my brother while he was walking his dog (two different dogs, 20 years apart) around the block. Death happens and it happens violently rather a lot. Because of the large numbers of violent deaths, and other factors such as the convenience of my street's vacant lots, my brother has had to call the police for two murders while being completely uninvolved with either one. Such is life, I guess. I found a quarter in a parking lot last week. Go figure. parking lot last week. Go figure.

Mikee...

Go out walkin’ the dog
Just walkin’ the dog
If you don’t know how to do it
Bro’ will show you how to walk dat dog

KellyM म्हणाले...

WhoKnew said...
"I remember when Lennon died and what I remember thinking is "what the heck is wrong with all these people getting so emotional over the death of someone they didn't really know". Then, in 1984, I heard on the radio just before I left for work that Steve Goodman had died. I was bummed out all day and I thought, now I know a little bit about how those Lennon mourners felt."

Funny, I felt that way at the time, too. I was 12 years old at the time. I was quite familiar with the Beatles’ music but it just didn’t register. Then in April, 1994 Kurt Cobain died and I understood better. I understand it was suicide but it was still a shock.

Earnest Prole म्हणाले...

It’s nice that golden years folks jabber about their olden days champions. Today I (by myself sans telling someone else to do it) got the new Post Malone Crocs.

Crocs? Aren't those the shoes retired people wear when they have to fetch some wood for the fireplace and don't feel like putting on shoes?

stephen cooper म्हणाले...

I think that if he had lived he would have put out a lot of great music over the last 40 years since 1980 - probably even better, even more soulful, music than the music of his youth, although of course the music of his youth was often pretty good, and often super soulful (for example, the lyrics of the theme song to the movie Help are almost perfect, and he wrote quite a few other songs just as good).

People sometimes say that rock and roll is for young people and most of the performers are done with their genuine creativity by the time they are 30, but that is only true if you are attached to just Top 40 tunes. Rock and roll is just another form of music, which is just another form of art, and there is no reason not to get better at it as you get older, if you really care about it, which Lennon obviously did.

I really really wish Lennon had spent a few bucks on discreet bodyguards.

Skippy Tisdale म्हणाले...

"When did Lennon inveigh against wealth?"

Imagine no possessions

and

Have you seen the little piggies
Crawling in the dirt?
And for all the little piggies
Life is getting worse,
Always having dirt to play around in

Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts?
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt,
Always have clean shirts to play around in

In their styes with all their backing
They don't care what goes on around
In their eyes there's something lacking
What they need's a damn good whacking

Everywhere there's lots of piggies
Living piggy lives
You can see them out for dinner
With their piggy wives
Clutching forks and knives to eat the bacon

bgates म्हणाले...

I remember Bobby Kennedy being shot because I was watching the televised coverage of his winning the California primary.

You mustn't blame yourself. I'm sure he would have been shot no matter what you were watching.

Skippy Tisdale म्हणाले...

I really really wish Lennon had spent a few bucks on discreet bodyguards.

And he wasn't the only rich person living in the Dakota over the years.

"Actress Lauren Bacall owned a nine-room apartment for 53 years that recently sold for $23.5 million. Other notable residents have included author Harlan Coben, U2's Bono, Rex Reed, Jack Palance, Lillian Gish, Boris Karloff, Rosemary Clooney, Connie Chung, and Maury Povich."

Jupiter म्हणाले...

Sprezzatura said...

"Just look at the post about the tennis court building. Somehow that got into jabbering about BHO and minorities playing tennis. WTF?"

Sprizzy, if you were a little older, or maybe just paid closer attention, you would know that Bill Cosby got his start playing tennis in a TV show called "I Spy". Then you would see how it all fits together.

But keep trying. It's always nice to see the young people applying themselves.

rcommal म्हणाले...

Hey, Althouse.

reader_iam here.

(later rcommal)

40 years later is a big deal to me, too.

I've never felt ashamed about all the different kinds of music that I've loved since having been born in Indiana in 1961. NEVER.

I do understand that others have, why and how.

Huge fan of so many musicians splattered all over the spectrum, just for starters.

[Warm} Regards,

Lori [Elizabeth Hill]


rcommal म्हणाले...

Wow.

rcommal म्हणाले...

Someone cares about what I have to say?

Will Cate म्हणाले...

Skippy Tisdale said... "Have you seen the little piggies"

Allow me to be the first to point out that that's a George Harrison song you just quoted

jeremyabrams म्हणाले...

My roommate was deeply affected. He told me the news. I thought it was a shame that a guy who contributed so much was robbed of the years when he could sit back and savor his contribution.

As for the music, it's amazing how good Lennon and McCartney were together, and how awful they were separately.

Will Cate म्हणाले...

Like many ppl I was watching Monday Night Football, me personally in a college-dorm commons room. After a play, Cosell said something along lines of "we should always remember... it's only a game." This struck me, at the time, as one of the most un-Howard Cosell things he could have said, and it caught my attention. Then a few moments later he made the Lennon announcement.

I was the co-manager of our campus radio station, so I called the guy on the air and said "Go check the newswire" ... it was just coming across. As I recall he played 30 minutes of John's music, then signed off for the rest of the night.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

"I've never felt ashamed about all the different kinds of music that I've loved since having been born in Indiana in 1961."

I've never been ashamed of liking whatever music I have liked. I have been sensitive to being thought of as emotionally attached to an idol. It's the love for the person that can be looked down on and regarded as fatuous. I mostly haven't cared about that, but I did feel deeply hurt when I was snapped at — "Who cares?" — when I got up out of bed to come tell 2 individuals that Elvis had died. I am not naming the individuals or saying what relationship to them I had, because they should feel bad about about shaming me and I hold it against them and wish I'd stood up to them.

I know people think it's stupid to like certain sorts of pop music but I've never felt shame about that.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

"RFK's death affected me more, probably due to my age at the time and my father's idolization of the Kennedys. He took the day off to travel from South Jersey to go to NYC and St. Patrick's Cathedral to walk past the casket."

Yeah, me too. If you read my old post in its entirety and not just the part I recopied here, you'll see that.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

As for actually interacting with a celebrity in real life... I don't like it at all. I've actively avoided it at times.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

The most active avoidance of an opportunity to interact with a celebrity for me was, oddly enough, John Lennon. I was sitting near him for over an hour and, despite an intense internal struggle, never overcame the conviction that it was best to leave him alone. There was no one I would rather have met at the time — it was 1975 — and by declining that opportunity — at age 25 — I got livelong immunity from the urge to interact with a celebrity.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

In case you're a celebrity wondering whether Ann Althouse would love to meet you.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

"I never would've tagged Rush Limbaugh for a big Beatles fan, but y'know he was 11 y/o when they came to the USA..."

I was born on the same day as RL, so I presume he was interested in the same things I was. The Beatles came to the US in 1964. We were 13.

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

"Long past his prime".....at 40! That made me chuckle.
I recall walking into the next room and telling my roommate that Lennon was shot. It made me wonder why he lived in NYC without protection. I don't recall what I thought about Elvis' death, other than not being surprised. I mean, the guy looked unhealthy. Besides, I was 17 and his music was not my music.

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

Laraine Newman tells a good story of being in 30 Rock, or someplace, just as SNL was getting started, and her fame skyrocketing, when John and Yoko walked past and said Hello. IIRC, she was struck dumb.

Charlie म्हणाले...

I remember Elvis' death clearly, but not John Lennon's. I was working for a small manufacturing company in Raleigh when the announcement came over the radio that Elvis had died. The women on the assembly line stopped work and began crying. Us guys were simply stunned. The radio began playing his music interspersed with tributes to his life. As a group, there was a sense that this was a very personal loss. We closed early that day.

Readering म्हणाले...

Living in LA for death of Michael Jackson was something. To me he seemed a freak, but I made sure to keep my opinion to myself.

Strangest part personally was that I was following a criminal trial with his former flamboyant criminal lawyer. He asked to be excused to attend memorial service at nearby Staples. Judge later apologized for refusing after jury spent that session just staring at him.

mikee म्हणाले...

Althouse, at Texas A&M I lived off campus in some dumpy duplexes in grad school, and had as a neighbor an aspiring singer/actor who later became at least B grade famous. After graduating and going on to become popular, he'd visit his friends when passing through, and one would always invite him back, adding, "But you have to promise not to sing." Keeping it real in Aggieland.