२७ ऑक्टोबर, २०२०
"In a stunning moment, Judge Garaufis interrupted [the defense lawyer] in the middle of his speech, yelling, 'No!'"
"During a back-and-forth in which the two men shouted through face masks, Judge Garaufis spoke forcefully about how intent did not matter when a 45-year-old man sexually abuses a child. 'It’s an insult to the intelligence of anyone who listens,' the judge said."
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This is most definitely the fuckin' he gets for the fuckin' he got.
Well, when he's right, he's right.
"Keith Raniere, Leader of Nxivm Sex Cult, Is Sentenced to 120 Years in Prison”
Hunter Biden’s capacious scrotum just shrank a little bit.
Some religious/moral/ethical precepts, despite social progress, prevail in populations. Pedophiles are held in contempt by social leaders and criminals alike. Some behaviors can hardly be tolerated, let alone normalized.
I watched the HBO series about Nxivm, and now I am watching the Starz series.
I think a 120-sentence is absurd.
The women were essentially groupies. Having sex with Raniere was an honor.
When my younger daughter told me about this 'club' and the Hollywood connection almost a year ago, I thought she was spending too much time watching YouTube conspiracy videos. But, in fact, just about everything she has told me has wound up being true.
That's good news. Earlier, overhearing the TV in another room, I'd thought I heard "20 years".
Let's hope he's not out in 20. Psychopaths like this never improve.
Good on the Judge, too, for shutting the bastard up. He'll have time to explain all that to his new friends in jail. He'll need to, because even those guys don't think too much of child abusers, from what I've heard.
In our adversarial system of justice, a lawyer is required to do his best to defend his client. Even when the client deserves to die slowly, eventually pleading and screaming just to be allowed to die.
Fraud? Ok, hit him if you can prove it. Underage sex? Ok, hit him -- depending on whether you believe the one who said she was 15y/o or you believe those who testified that he didn't touch the jail bait. But as for the rest of it, it was a bunch of stupid, weak-willed, adult "seekers" who permitted him to do the stuff he did. Including the idiots who let him burn them. I'm sure that if there was physical force or kidnapping or false imprisonment involved, the article would have mentioned it.
This (mostly) reeks of MeToo delayed remorse for voluntary behavior. Change my mind.
During their 12-year relationship,
tried to poison her relationship with her mother
expected her to wait naked
"Master, please brand me"
he had never paid child support
Most of that doesn't seem much different than what a rejected ex-wife might say; there's no mention of the use of force, or being chained in a dungeon, etc., just a mean man who was liked, a lot, by plenty of women.
Raniere preyed on insecure people
They're the best witnesses, since they can't be manipulated, especially by money.
"I think a 120-sentence is absurd.
The women were essentially groupies. Having sex with Raniere was an honor."
That's what I thought listening to the Uncover podcast and the absurd HBO show. The overweening narcissism of the "victims" is unmistakable. They were merrily complicit until they weren't. Sure, Raniere is a skeevy New Age huckster. How stupid would you have to be to not see that from the start?
Lotsa pervs in that morally superior class isn't there.
Blogger Ice Nine said...
"Fraud? Ok, hit him if you can prove it. Underage sex? Ok, hit him"
Right. Haven't followed the case. Am prepared to agree he's scum. But how do you "manipulate" women into being branded? How do you "manipulate" women into having sex with you? And what makes such manipulation illegal?
Some of the reactions here, seeming to imply he was overcharged, or improperly charged or sentenced, seem strange to me.
Certainly, needy people and people with weak minds are easily manipulated by people like Raniere. This makes it OK?
Maybe I'm sentimental or something (though I doubt that my track record supports such a belief), but I say throw him to the dogs in prison, hang him out back, or give him the .45 to the back of the skull (that latter, actually, too good for him). People like this bring nothing but destruction into the world.
This is controversial?
For once, I'm arguing with commenters instead of Althouse. (Of course She Who Controls The Moderation has not yet expressed an opinion on this matter, so time will tell on that.)
I wish there were a tag for "judges who lose their temper on the bench". The issue has arisen several times in recent years.
I remember a few years ago, when Obama was president, and a non-Obama-supporter political prisoner (I think the trumped-up charges were 'tax evasion' or maybe 'failure to register as a lobbyist' - nothing very turpitudinous) was screamed at by an elderly female (liberal, natch) judge who hated him. I guess almost nobody remembers that, but it was a real news story, and people noticed, because elderly female judges don't often lose their temper at sentencing hearings, and don't often scream loudly on camera (which that elderly female judge did. I think it was in the midwest somewhere, but I could be wrong). Actually, almost no judges scream at defendants who are being sentenced, but all judges are human. Not saying the judge in today's case lost his or her temper, just saying that it is an interesting subject, judges losing their temper. Nihil humanum alienum .... puto, as we used to say back upstate.
That being said, if the evidence shows a middle aged man had sex with a child, a just society hangs the middle aged man, or lines him up against a wall and executes him by firing squad.
"120 years" is nonsense, compared to the clarity and justice of this:
if you rape a kid in our country, then you hang by the neck until you are dead, or you stand against the wall while you are shot to death.
I have not followed this story, though, and it is possible that the rape of the child was not evidence in front of the jury, but was allowed in as unrebutted testimony at the sentencing phase.
Scott Adams is on about it all in the two recent podcasts, on the side of the justice system seems to be broken. I haven't found it interesting enough to investigate but it will be more interesting if the justice system is in fact broken. It sounds like shades of the day care sexual abuse prosecutions that Dorothy Rabinowitz wrote about, to listen to Adams on it.
>>Maillard Reactionary said...
Certainly, needy people and people with weak minds are easily manipulated by people like Raniere. This makes it OK?<<
"OK" is not the question. The guy is going to prison for the rest of his life. *OK or not legally* is the only question in view of that. "OK" morally or ethically are whole other questions that can be debated (and you won't get an argument from me on those). But those don't warrant life imprisonment.
Yes, I know, he was tried and convicted in a court. So was Harvey Weinstein - and Harvey largely got screwed because his behavior was distasteful, and the contemporaneous MeToo hysteria. That same hysteria, albeit somewhat worn, is extant. I just didn't see solid evidence of crime in my cursory exposure to Raniere's case through this article. Other than the possibility that he screwed a 15 y/o - for which I stipulated he should be punished. Did you see any such evidence?
Well I think the content of anyone who attended Nxivm is that they put their own children at risk. That is how CPS operates. CPS would question the mindset of any adult who participated in nxivm. And Judges would be inclined to agree with them loudly. CPS operates with a broad judicial/police authority granted to them by legislatures. Alison Mack wants to have a child?
Nxivm will probably restart itself in prison.
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...
"I think a 120-sentence is absurd.
The women were essentially groupies. Having sex with Raniere was an honor."
That's what I thought listening to the Uncover podcast and the absurd HBO show. The overweening narcissism of the "victims" is unmistakable. They were merrily complicit until they weren't. Sure, Raniere is a skeevy New Age huckster. How stupid would you have to be to not see that from the start?
I'll bet all the "victims" are voting for Biden, a skeevy old style huckster. It's hard to cure ignorance, gullibility, and stupidity.
Christine Blasey Ford
Mattress girl
Duke rapists
Jackie Coakly
These women have done a disservice to legitimate victims.
As have these 35 other rape hoaxers
https://helpsaveoursons.com/looking-back-campus-rape-hoaxes-false-accusations-how-many/
Not to mention those who have sex willingly and are convinced later that they were raped.
Now do Hunter Biden and his 14 year old niece or the Chinese litle girls he beat on camera. Joe and Jill knew all about the niece, probably the little Chinese girls too.
It's good to know that some of you believe that you are so strong, that you can never be manipulated by other people when you are in a vulnerable place in your life.
There was a young woman from Mexico who was held in solidarity confinement for years under direct order of Keith Ranire because she wanted to leave. She was told she would be let out if she proved that she wanted to stay. Her family was not allowed to see her or be in contact with her. They were told it was for her own good.
Other people who left were pursued legally both criminally and civilly under charges that were not true, to harass them.
The women who were branded were not told beforehand what was going to happen. At this point, they had already given collateral to the group. Many of the woman in the sex cult part of the group were on 800 calorie diets and sleep deprivation. They had been told when they joined that it was a female only women's empowerment group.
These are only a few examples of stories I have read. Tony Ortega's blog has a series of blog posts that cover the entire trial. It goes into detail about what was covered each day.
I think blaming the victims allows the perpetrators to get away with criminal behavior.
I "manipulate women into having sex" by paying them.
THEOLDMAN
Or, prior to that, by buying them dinner, baubles and such
Anyone cheering this sentencing, or nursing an overweening respect for our justice system, should read that Dorothy Rabinowitz book rhhardin mentions--No Crueler Tyrannies. It's devastating, but important. The moral panic around this case, the coordinated justice dept action alongside the various entertainments and reporting, seem highly calculated.
”Maybe I'm sentimental or something (though I doubt that my track record supports such a belief), but I say throw him to the dogs in prison, hang him out back, or give him the .45 to the back of the skull (that latter, actually, too good for him). People like this bring nothing but destruction into the world.”
I don’t know if you’re “sentimental,” but you’re certainly not a constitutionalist, given your advocacy here for cruel and unusual punishment.
”Maybe I'm sentimental or something (though I doubt that my track record supports such a belief), but I say throw him to the dogs in prison, hang him out back, or give him the .45 to the back of the skull (that latter, actually, too good for him). People like this bring nothing but destruction into the world.”
I don’t know if you’re “sentimental,” but you’re certainly not a constitutionalist, given your advocacy here for cruel and unusual punishment.
@Adina 5:36am “... blaming the victims ...”
It’s called accountabiliy and moral agency. Adults have freedom to make choices, and they also live with them.
These women have done a disservice to legitimate victims.
And let's not forget the Kavenaugh accusers.
Side question:
Does the highly emotional outburst by a judge add to the call for a re-trial?
[And, no, I am NOT supporting that at all.]
>""In a stunning moment, Judge Garaufis interrupted [the defense lawyer] in the middle of his speech, yelling, 'No!'".... Judge Garaufis spoke forcefully about how intent did not matter when a 45-year-old man sexually abuses a child"
And, the Judge just gave the defendant multiple angles to appeal e.g., incorrect statement of the law, bias, interference with counsel. He/she/it should be impeached for malpractice.
Lots of comments about sex, but not so much about the cultic, controlling behaviors of NXIVM...not unlike the manipulative, controlling behaviors of the Radical Left who appear to have taken over the (D) party.
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