१५ मे, २०२०
"I can't imagine another state that is in this predicament..."
How are you supposed to know what the rules are from county to county? It's hard enough to understand the orders that apply in your home county. I struggled as long as I could put up with it to understand my own county's weird order that came in the wake of the Wisconsin Supreme Court's rejection of Governor Evers's order, but what's up with the neighboring counties? And do I even notice when I've crossed over to another county? If I leave my county to go to a restaurant in another county, am I violating some sort of travel ban imposed by my county? It's too hard to figure out! And yet, I think a county-by-county approach is good, because some counties are much more densely populated, and people rankle at bondage to restrictions that happen to be a fine approach in another place with very different conditions.
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१३९ टिप्पण्या:
Dear Ann:
(You know the rest)
FYI; the mayor of Madison was on NPR this morning crying about restrictions being lifted too soon.
I rolled my eyes at the hyperbole in the State Journal this morning. The Court overturning Evers' Order has thrown the state into chaos!
Yet somehow, life goes on as normal in this new normal.
From the post:
"If I leave my county to go to a restaurant in another county, am I violating some sort of travel ban imposed by my county?"
Not if you cross county lines for an"essential" activity and happen to stop in a restaurant while outside your county.
I suppose Dane County could hire contact tracers to check up on county residents...or set up border checkpoints.
Wasn't it Shakespeare that said "kill all the lawyers"?
Wasn't far from the truth. When Ann is confused we are all in trouble. Or like me, just ignore these silly pronouncements.
It's good to see a chief Moonbat elevated to high office. This is a bat virus, after all.
Thank you Wisconsin Supreme Court for doing the Republicans’ bidding and creating chaos.
"How are you supposed to know what the rules are from county to county?"
That seems to be the whole point of counties rejecting the Supreme Court's declaration of the statewide executive order being unconstituitional. These people should be removed from office, good luck with all of that next election, assuming an opponent can get on the ballot at all.
As I said, if only Dane County would embrace the Brigadoon alternative (disappear for 100 years) the whole of Wisconsin, and indeed America, would be better off.
Does Wisconsin bother you, Althouse? The order to reopen was met with open arms in the area that I live in. There should not be any difference between Dane county where you live, and Polk county where I live. The order to reopen was about Wisconsin not different counties in Wisconsin.
Are you and Meade still considering moving from Madison? If you go to another state, please take Evers with you.
PA has 67 counties and is loosening restrictions by regions - six in all - from Red to Yellow to Green phase.
After today, most except the southeast and some in south central will be in, or heading to, Yellow.
It's working pretty well. Politicians can demand their county be let loose, knowing that it will likely happen soon, regardless. It lets people vent, while showing movement forward. Not perfect, but it gives hope and prevents setting the scene for a Mad Max reboot.
Aaron Rogers famously told the fans to R-E-L-A-X
Similar situation here. I can see how this is stressful for the fanatical rule-followers and control freaks (those who have to feel that they are in control all the time, or at least think they are) but sometimes you have to free yourself from that anxiety. Like the Frozen girl sings: Let it go, let it go!
Trust yourself to make the right choices. Look in the mirror and to yourself: "I'm good enough, I'm strong enough, and gosh darnit, people like me." Give yourself that daily affirmation. Then say: "Local government flunkies can kiss my ass. I will cross over to that other county over there and drink a nice cold beer while maintaining social distancing."
Thank you Wisconsin Supreme Court for doing the Republicans’ bidding and creating chaos.
When you talk that way the virus wins. It's literally a virus recruitment tool.
Forgot to say, but the bars in Star Prairie were open this morning. Probably serving breakfast like they used to do.
"It's too hard to figure out! And yet, I think a county-by-county approach is good, because some counties are much more densely populated"
Smart gal like you with nearly 7 decades of experience and common sense?
I'm sure you will able to work it out. Don't fret about "rule compliance" and go about your normal routines which have served you well over the years.
Inga, I bet you blame the dog when you fart. You're not fooling anyone.
But Althouse, I thought you were never going to a restaurant again. Or did I misread that post from yesterday?
Tell us, please, how you operated courageously in the 1968-1969 Hong Kong flu epidemic in which 100,000 Americans died (more than the Vietnam War!). That would be 164,000 with today's population. Your children--healthy young adults, I am sure-- will be fascinated to hear about how you maneuvered through the danger.
Evers continues to throw gas on the partisan fire. Had he acted like a true leader and included the legislature in the decision making (even, "gasp", making compromises) he would not find himself in the current situation. He is now completely neutered. His obvious lack of insight is disturbing.
Thank you Wisconsin Supreme Court for doing the Republicans’ bidding and creating chaos.
Actually, it is the attempts to micromanage every single aspect of how every single citizen lives their lives that has caused the chaos.
Ann:
The rules are crazy, irrational and unconstitutional. People are being denied their income without due process of law.
And note well that over 99% of the dead in MN either had a serious medical condition or resided in a nursing home or assisted living facility.
Evers should be recalled.
Wisconsin doesn’t have signs on the major roads telling you when you move from one county to another? Virginia has signage like that on state roads. Off the top of my head I don’t recall whether we do the same on interstates. Here in Virginia we have one set of rules for the counties and municipalities close to DC, another for the rest of the state.
The orders of a Governor for all citizens to become Home Confinement prisoners is illegal on its face. Vladimir Lenin Democrats would approve, but no American citizen has to put up with that crap without due process of law. That Governor needs to be arrested.
"I rolled my eyes at the hyperbole in the State Journal this morning. The Court overturning Evers' Order has thrown the state into chaos!"
I know the mayor of West Allis. He was on CNN last night. The news reader at the desk tried to get him to say it was all chaos but he didnt take the bait. Just laughed a bit and said it was a Hobson;s choice about what to do as an elected official. Handled it really well and did not give CNN what it wanted.
Here is the link: https://twitter.com/i/status/1261066510338084867
Gosh, too bad we can't have a statewide order, with flexibility to respond to local conditions, which is of course what Evers and Palm were trying to accomplish. Gee, why is that? By the way Professor Althouse, have you read the opinion yet? It's the one thing you actually could offer some expertise on, instead of all this "Gee Whiz its complicated!" or "Too bad it's so partisan!" After all, "Gee Whiz its complicated!" and "Too bad it's so partisan" ore two of the main reasons, apart from the law itself, why the Supreme Court's decision is so off base. Shouldn't you let your readers know?
Inga said...
Thank you Wisconsin Supreme Court for doing the Republicans’ bidding and creating chaos.
These people do not deserve to live in a free country.
Move to China Inga.
You will be happier there and we wont have to deal with the Nazi's you vote for.
If you go to another state, please take Evers with you.
Don’t bring Evers if you choose to move to Virginia. Our schools are sufficiently screwed up as it is.
New York under Cuomo has regions too!
Of the 5,141 virus deaths in Massachusetts, 3,095 have occurred in the state’s nursing homes — more than 60%, double the percentage even in New York.
Yet Gov. Charlie Baker, the scold and scourge of all golf carts, gun shops, nail salons and churches, none of which have recorded any fatalities, seems strangely oblivious to the ever-escalating toll in the state’s “long-term care facilities,” which are both heavily regulated and subsidized by the commonwealth.
These "social distancing" orders have nothing to to with saving lives.
They are in fact killing people. Several Governors like Cuomo and Baker have blood on their hands.
Everything the panic Nazi's like Inga and Ken are doing is in bad faith.
Interesting to see there are those who equate letting individuals make decisions about their lives with chaos, and are disturbed by the prospects of such. Sucks to be them, I guess.
"Thank you Wisconsin Supreme Court for doing the Republicans’ bidding and creating chaos."
Inga, people making their own decisions on what to do and not do, and where to go and not go: is that what you call chaos?
Very telling.
It’s great to see the Hysterics self identify.
Don’t think we’re not keeping score, brother.
Here's which Wisconsin counties and cities have continued or started new stay-at-home orders
Looks like Wisconsin is going it alone county by county, city by city.
Update.....Wisconsin Counties Ass'n legal beagle advises counties that they ALSO exceed their authority by issuing Imprisonment Orders. See, e.g., Kenosha County's retraction of last night (5/14)
When Georgia opened up three weeks ago deaths were averaging 35/day. Now the 7 day average is 11, and dropping fast with only 4 yesterday.
Wisconsin is currently averaging 9 per day.
Overall about 140 Wisconsinites die every day from something else.
Georgia has giant lizards now.
Georgia could probably invade and conquer Wisconsin armed with nothing but sporks and tofu.
And apparently local rulers in Madison plan to say "hey, the Supreme Court doesn't actually apply to me! What's the most they can do?"
I can't wait to see the response.
You sure Evers isn't an elder in the Mormon Church?
Now you know why the Democrats just want everyone to stay home until everyone can go outside again.
Anything other than a blanket edict is too hard for them to administer with the appropriate rewards and punishments.
What's confusing?
You go for a drive. Restaurants, bars and shops have signs in their windows that say "open" or "closed." In small-town Wisconsin, many restaurants are closed on Mondays what with low volume following the busy weekends. Shops in tourist areas aren't always open pre-Memorial Day. Some bars are open in the mornings, some aren't.
Look for these magic "closed/open" signs and nine times out of ten, they'll be your guide. Only now, the decision is yours and the proprietor's. Not HHS Secretary (and former Obama administration functionary) Andrea Palm.
if there was only a wall between the counties,
Inga: "Thank you Wisconsin Supreme Court for doing the Republicans’ bidding and creating chaos."
Just as Putin planned it out, eh Inga?
Or have you stopped doing the Putin Controls Everything lunacy?
"Thank you Wisconsin Supreme Court for doing the Republicans’ bidding and creating chaos."
That's actually a compliment to Republicans, but you probably don't understand why.
The county by county approach is good if the leadership is any good. The rules should be simple. If they're not, that's a problem regardless of what size jurisdiction you're using.
If you drive to a restaurant and when you get there, there's a sign on the door saying you can't eat there, it's a shame, but the occasional disappointment and/or wasted hour is inevitable.
With Google, it took me less than 30 seconds to find the current policy in my county.
There was much more chaos under a plan with obscure, movable targets and an undefined timeline that inexplicably included the entire state even though most areas have suffered little or no impact.
The state claims the person died of coronavirus, not alcohol poisoning.
“County Coroner George Deavers said the person tested positive for COVID-19, but an investigation by him and the pathologist determined the cause of death was ethanol toxicity,” The Durango Herald wrote. “‘COVID was not listed on the death certificate as the cause of death. I disagree with the state for listing it as a COVID death, and will be discussing it with them this week,'” Deavers said.
Everything the panic Nazi's are pedaling is a lie.
Each city in LA County's urban-suburban sprawl has different rules. I played tennis for the first time in a couple of months yesterday ... restrictions are easing, but it's not clear what is rebellious law breaking or a sanctioned activity.
I wonder if Elton John's "Philadelphia Freedom" (about Billie Jean King and the WTT tennis squad!) will become a song of the summer again. Or Wham's "Freedom" or George Michael's "Freedom 90"?
Danno: Shakespeare didn't say that, he put those words in the mouth of a character called "Dick the Butcher" in one of his plays. Joseph Conrad didn't say "exterminate all the brutes", he had Mr. Kurtz say it.
I’m just home from the barber shop and hardware store, and have to say that this virus is almost ancient history here in Florida. Our beaches have been open for two weeks, we’ve dined out twice this past week, and masks are becoming scarcer day by day. We’ve had 3 cases of Wuflu diagnosed since May 1 in our county of 88,000. The news out of Michigan, Wisconsin and others states subject to blue government is beginning to seem like a parallel universe.
“Move to China Inga.
You will be happier there and we wont have to deal with the Nazi's you vote for.”
Move to Somalia, then you can ride around in the back of a white pickup truck with a rocket launcher, no central government, every man for himself. You will be happier there and we won’t have to hear your blather.
Wow, free market and federalism is confusing? I don't think so. I think the confusing part is various little dictatorships that have decided certain defined rights no longer simply belong to the people. That's confusing.
"Look for these magic "closed/open" signs and nine times out of ten, they'll be your guide. Only now, the decision is yours and the proprietor's."
ONOZ! OMG! Chaos!
Ann always remember your situation is not the same as a majority of Americans. You are old, have a guaranteed fixed income, no mortgage and probably no loans outstanding. Most of your activity is sitting down at your computer and blogging. So you have nothing to lose if the state is in quarantine . I think that makes your analysis quite subjective and not showing empathy for those who need to work to survive.
Sorry, I only made it through about the first 15 seconds but at least I tried. Just more drivel from our local Cadaver in Chief.
If I remember correctly, Althouse had a post where she theorized that Evers was elected because Walker and Republicans had done such a good job getting the states business in order that voters felt that could take a flyer on a newcomer with little risk that he could really fuck things up. Now that Wisconsin will be relying on Evers to rebuild our economy, I wonder how many will regret making that bargain.
Blogger GBnative said...
"What's confusing?"
Some people are more comfortable with a one-size-fits-all program with zero-tolerance enforcement. Those people believe our rights are granted by government and that we exist only as the means by which government is sustained.
CDC expected deaths.
Guess how many states are at or above 110%.
Guess who controls those states. (Hint: they are controlled by Governors that had some sort of order forcing nursing homes to take COVID-19 patients and they are all democrats.)
421 fatalities out of a population of over 6 million in Wisconsin, and those numbers may have been dramatically fudged.
I don’t get it, prof.
What are you getting hot and bothered about here?
If you were sensibly worried about every danger to your life and health that is equivalent to or greater than this virus, you’d hide forever in a concrete prepper bunker under your house.
Really, what gives with you here? You’re not making any sense.
One man's freedom is another Karen's "Chaos".
Perhaps counties should focus on regulating businesses within their borders, rather than trying to micromanage every decision by every resident with multi-page cross-referenced impenetrable legalese?
Just exercise your constitutional rights everywhere. If Madison County is enforcing unconstitutional ordinances, ignore the ordinance. You're not a slave, the constitution makes sure of this.
Most things that involve other people has some risk. Its the human condition. If the present condition is too much, stay home.
“Inga, people making their own decisions on what to do and not do, and where to go and not go: is that what you call chaos?”
“Interesting to see there are those who equate letting individuals make decisions about their lives with chaos, and are disturbed by the prospects of such. Sucks to be them, I guess.”
“It's too hard to figure out!”
2/1 - 5/9 numbers for the US:
United States
COVID-19: 60,299
Total: 857,948
Percent Expected: 101
Pneumonia: 81,318
Pneumonia + C-19: 26,516
Influenza: 6,158
Total Inf+C-19+Pneumonia: 120,370
Imagine what these numbers would look like if Cuomo and Baker and Murphy hadn't forced nursing homes to take COVID-19 patients.
I spent the morning driving around Madison. Looks pretty normal with lots of active construction. Even got into some stop-n-go traffic. And a nearly full parking lot and long checkout line at Home Depot. People are busy as bees in Madison. Chaos my big white ass.
Did you see the hilarious headline in Newsweek today?
Wisconsin's New Coronavirus Cases Rise as People Flock to Reopened Bars After Court Overturns Stay-at-Home Order
Chaos with a big helping of dishonesty. It's no wonder so many have tuned out Democrats and their media allies.
A predicament is like CA, where they are told they will not open till end of summer. That means a lot of people will lose everything they have worked for for years, become wards of the state, and be stuck in the most expensive cost of living on top of all that. In short, people will be ruined in the state that already has the highest poverty rate, and 1/3 of the nation's welfare recipients. The streets are already lined with homeless encampments. They better not find out how much nicer Wisconsin's predicament is, or you will have a real predicament. They already think the cheese grows on trees there.
"I can't imagine another state..." Here's Maryland: https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2020/05/14/whos-open-whos-closed-county-by-county-breakdown-as-maryland-reopens/
If you were sensibly worried about every danger to your life and health that is equivalent to or greater than this virus, you’d hide forever in a concrete prepper bunker under your house.
Gropey Joe! Is that you?
Got my antibody test results today - Negative. Dammit!
That means a lot of symptoms among everybody in our house were just something else. The symptoms were very similar.
In Nevada we are performing a lot more virus tests now and the positives are dropping fast. After hovering around 12% for many weeks, they are now down to 9%.
Questions for the Professor and the various political-strategy analysts out there...
Did Wisconsin's GOP leadership err by not letting Evers own this for another two weeks, and likely beyond if Covid-19 targets weren't met? Open rebellion was building, which wouldn't have been a good luck for the Dems responsible. Truism: Let your foe keep digging.
You've now made it about the Wis Supreme Court (correction: "the Republican-dominated Supreme Court" in all media references). Even some legal minds who champion reopening say the ruling was poorly reasoned. Scott Walker' confidante-turned-justice threw in with the libs, although it didn't affect the outcome.
And for what? Opening up 10 days earlier? I'd rather have seen a political solution: Ratchet up citizen and small-business pressure on Evers and Palm. No more lockdown extensions, or else. Don't you dare go past May 26. I think you've let them off the hook, a little, or muddied the waters. At least in terms of what people will remember come November. The WSC involvement, resulting in less than a clear-cut verdict, takes it away from the people and into the realm of typical inside-baseball, politics as usual, pox on all of them maneuvering.
I hope this was less about the shutdown (though I respect that the economy and small businesses need relief ASAP) and more about November. The former, arguably, is still small cheese compared to the value of establishing judicially drawn limits to Palm/Evers' mandate power. Otherwise, we'd have been looking over our shoulder all summer and fall waiting for the next emergency quarantine order that the Dems will argue makes mail-in voting the only "safe" alternative.
Final question: Why Andrea Palm as a (suddenly) influential cabinet appointee in Wisconsin, a state where she'd never previously lived? I disdain conspiracy theory, but she's a former Hillary aide and Obama official. OK, she was appointed long before Covid, and I imagine she's as capable as any (low bar), and maybe in HHS her D.C. ties are valuable, but what else? Just wondering.
"Gosh, too bad we can't have a statewide order, with flexibility to respond to local conditions, which is of course what Evers and Palm were trying to accomplish."
A complete bass ackward reading of the executive orders from our distinguished totalitarians at the top -- Evers and (not confirmed assignee) Palm issued statewide orders with NO flexibility to respond to local conditions.
Stephen must live in the same alternate universe with fellow Prog Inga.
I was under the impression that some county sheriff's offices and city police departments were starting to say they would not enforce Evers order prior to the supreme court ruling. Making rules that have no enforcement is nothing more than a suggestion. The ruling may have more people open up a little early but they were going to start opening up in a week or so anyway. There is too much social media being used now for the Governor to be able to lock down the people of the state for as long as he wishes. It appears to me that Evers doesn't really understand the people of Wisconsin and what restrictions they would be willing to put up with long term.
What's really strange is that the traffic laws are the same in all counties despite a similar mortality rate for driving as for going out to eat or work. You would think some counties would actually care more about the lives of their citizens.
How about this:
"A California biopharmaceutical company claims to have discovered a coronavirus antibody breakthrough that has shown 100% inhibition of COVID-19 in laboratory tests. Executives at Sorrento Therapeutics announced the possible coronavirus antibody treatment on Friday, and say it could be more effective than a vaccine in quickly combating COVID-19."
https://www.foxnews.com/science/covid-cure-california-biopharmaceutical-coronavirus-antibody-breakthrough
While I don't necessarily endorse Shouting Thomas's style all of the time, the comment at 11.20am is right on target.
"It's too hard to figure out!"
Sounds like the voters chose poorly in the last election. Best of wishes for a better outcome in the next one.
"WisEye"? I think I had that once. It leaves a cheeselike growth under the eyelids.
P.S. Tell your governor to get up, walk around and smile a little. Also, get new glasses.
It's the wild wild West in northwestern Wisconsin. The good news is that, the last time I looked, there was a grand total of two fatalities due to the coronavirus. The news did not give any details, e.g. the ages or physical condition of the deceased.
My guess is that Dane County is targeting the Norwegians in the City of Stoughton. The extended lock-down is clearly intended to prevent the Syttende Mai celebration on May 17th.
Remember the name Mike Garcia (R-California). Navy fighter PILOT (heh - inside joke)'
If the fear-mongerers, panic-Nazis, scientifically and medically clueless keep shutting down hospitals, grammar schools, restaurants, sports stadiums, rock concerts, college campuses, barber shops, nail salons, movie theaters, and graduation ceremonies, to ostensibly "save us", well, you're gonna get a lot more Mike Garcias in your future.
Again, you have very distinct groups among the Dems. The ones we hear from in the media are the connected people. Now here's a secret: no matter how restricted or convoluted the rules are doesn't matter to those people, because they won't have to live by them.
"Evers continues to throw gas on the partisan fire. Had he acted like a true leader and included the legislature in the decision making (even, "gasp", making compromises) he would not find himself in the current situation."
Evers has no interest in compromise because he thinks he's the smart one and the legislators are the evil ones.
"If I leave my county to go to a restaurant in another county, am I violating some sort of travel ban imposed by my county?"
Maybe. And who cares?
It's the restaurant owner who will get punishment, if there is any.
You know..like Barrette announcing that any business opening up against his will should consider their licensure....
"Are you and Meade still considering moving from Madison? If you go to another state, please take Evers with you."
Hell no to that! I have long been urging them to consider Puget Sound country, but now I must add the disclaimer: ONLY if they are unaccompanied by that twit! Inslee is bad enough; how could we possibly survive if someone inflicts his soul mate on us, too?
Virginia and Maryland are going with different rules by county. Most of each state is starting to reopen, but not the countries around Washington DC.
"I think a county-by-county approach is good"
What's the legal basis for county officials assuming unconstitutional police powers that state officials are not allowed to exercise?
There are many Wisconsin counties with zero, one or two cases and they should be able to set their own rules. https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/county.htm
Kenosha County rescinded it's order after a mere 24 hrs. I would imagine a lot of Milwaukee residents will venture out to Waukesha and Washington Counties this weekend. Drop their money there. The local lock downs are now illegal too.
All Dane County residents should remain indoors and locked down for the health and well being of their fellow Wisconsinites.
Tony Evers - "Only an ex school superintendent could be this stupid"
He and his brilliant DHS Secretary created this. Even from a strategic standpoint, announcing the extension on 4/16/20 was stupid. It would have lasted longer if he announced it on 4/30.
Wait till they see the chaos in Wisconsin this weekend. Miller Time!
There are a lot of Wisconsinites that aren't confused at all.
I don't know if you'll tell us Professor because of 'cruel neutrality', but did you vote for Evers and help kick Walker out of office?
Walker would have handled all this much better. No doubt about it.
So which is it, Tony?
..You do not accept that citizens - and localized groups of citizens - can arrive at differing answers when they evaluate risks and rewards in their lives; or
..You understand it but - with the powers you arrogate to State government - will not allow it.
And really! You "can't imagine another state that is in this predicament?" Check out the rioting in distant Michigan.
'Tis a conundrum, Tony.
..The more powers Government has,
..the more decisions Government takes from people,
..the more laws Government passes,
..the more Government picks winners and losers,
..the less the Law treats all citizens equally,
..the less citizens respect and honor Government and Law.
Althouse, WTF is wrong with you. All these orders are unconstitutional.
I think that you will find is that Wisconsin counties with high covid-19 death counts have a lot of long term care facilities.
Has there ever been a verified case where a healthy person has caught a fatal dose of covid from a social situation? there are supposed to be two million dead. Shouldn't there be one poster-child case of healthy college student or mom who went shopping without a mask and ended up six feet under?
Or even a person where a person who was old but in average health for her age caught covid-19 in a casual social situation and died?
I don't think so. I can't think of a single example.
Tommy Duncan said... Dane County is targeting the Norwegians in the City of Stoughton. The extended lock-down is clearly intended to prevent the Syttende Mai celebration on May 17th.
Uff Da! As a half Norwegian born in The Dells, I feel that we are being grossly discriminated against.
My Norwegian relatives in The Dells will passively accept this insult, but I am half Scots. We fight for FREEEEDOM!
jrem said...
It's the wild wild West in northwestern Wisconsin
No snow on the trails. Are they still trying to ride their snowmobiles to get to the bars?
Inga said...
Thank you Wisconsin Supreme Court for doing the Republicans’ bidding and creating chaos.
"chaos'
Gee, I just got back from Muskego and didn't notice any "chaos" at all in Inga's home county.
Cars parked outside of bars and restaurants qualifies as "chaos" only in the feeble minds of hysterics.
I was just do what your conscience drives. F*** the law, f*** the regulation, f*** the court, screw the bureaucrats. I wouldn't recommend close contact indoors with a poor ventilation system masks or not. I wouldn't recommend preaching to the choir either.
Blogger BarrySanders20 said...
Are they still trying to ride their snowmobiles to get to the bars?
--
ATVs, golf carts, rider mowers
As free, independent, adults, it's got to start with the most local of all localities- ourselves. We have to manage ourselves knowing that we want to be free, but that we also have the capability of carrying and passing the virus. So we should as individuals, do our part to not spread it. So we start with each ourselves.
Then our household. Same rules apply.
Then our community, our city, our county, and finally- our state.
But we're talking humanity so to expect everyone to self-manage is ridiculous (see: any local bar). Still- the majority of us will and I'll take those odds.
The problem isn’t that the rules aren’t uniform throughout the state, it’s that they’re county-wide, making no reasonable distinction between downtown Madison and a country meadow. We should just be taking rational safety and hygiene measures, person by person, location by location, with a nuanced risk management approach that doesn’t trample our rights, and doesn’t needlessly shut down an entire state, but that isn’t the way Evers’ Karensky government operates.
In Chicago, all of which is in Cook County, you can endanger your life just by crossing the street into the wrong neighborhood. Probably holds for Milwaukee, too.
Guimo: "Althouse, WTF is wrong with you. All these orders are unconstitutional."
Indeed.
Los Angeles is now going to shut down the water and power service to all "non essential" businesses.......
Yep.
The Lefties/LLR-lefties really are going there, aren't they?
Danno said...
When Ann is confused we are all in trouble.
------------=================
truly or pretend
County by county, is EXACTLY the way Wyoming did it... it worked FINE
Different counties and different cities all have different ordinances and regulations.
What makes this so confusing? Is it because you want to be confused?
Sorry AA! This is a fault of politicians. I remember coming home from Vietnam in '68 - '69 and being tested for the Hong Kong Flu. H.K. Flu was viewed, at the time, as the second worst, after Spanish Flu, in history. After H.K. Flue infecting more then 4 million + and over 100,000 deaths +. What did the officials at that time do in NY? They gave the ok to hold Woodstock. Smoke them apples in your pipe - 'Propaganda MSM'.
Like I said in a different thread, the county line between Dane and Jefferson counties runs through the middle of Cambridge Wisconsin. You could be in lock down while your next door neighbor just a few yards away could be having a backyard party with a bunch of friends. If it was me, I would consider going over to my neighbors house essential travel. That's the way we do things in the "wild west."
The Governor has clearly never heard of Florida.
This for Gov Evers......https://youtu.be/6vE5ewvxdfo. Living in the wild wild west!
So neither the governor nor the public health guy thinks Diversity is Our Strength. Good to know. Beyond that, I have no idea what they were saying in that clip.
Did Ryan Westergaard really say that it will take one to two years to accumulate the resources necessary to deal with this virus in Wisconsin? I couldn't quite digest his word salad. Were there any followup questions asking him to specify what resources those are, or how statewide regulation makes them more affordable?
Celebrate Diversity!
Oh..Palm will take another shot at end of month with Scope Statement filing.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/misc/lc/issue_briefs/2020/covid_19/ib_rulemaking_sg_ao_2020_08_05
"Cars parked outside of bars and restaurants qualifies as "chaos" only in the feeble minds of hysterics."
Those same hysterics would be just fine with people going to bars and restaurants as long as they were ordered to do so by the government, you know.
Before GA locked down we had county wide restrictions, I thought it worked pretty well, and we locals know where the boundaries are so it wasn’t hard to figure out. Lately as things are reopen8ng I’ve noticed them using roadside portable lighted signs (the k8nd they usually use for traffic rerouting during construction) to announce dates that things like playgrounds will reopen.
http://www.thewheelerreport.com/wheeler_docs/files/051520nass.pdf
DHS Scope Statement
–
The Empire Strikes Back with Safer At Home and Badger
Bounce Back Emergency Rule
Senator Steve Nass (R
-
Whitewater), Co-Chairman of the Joint Committee on Review of
Administrative Rules (JCRAR), released the following statement in response to the Department of Health Services (DHS) issuing a Scope Statement to implement an
Emergency Rule restoring elements of Public Health Order #28 referred to as Safer At Home and Public Health Order #31 referred to as the Badger Bounce Back P
lan: “The Wisconsin Supreme Court clearly ruled that Governor Evers and DHS
Secretary-Designee Andrea Palm acted improperly and illegally by forcing every
citizen of Wisconsin to stay home, close certain businesses, prohibit freedom of
association and harshly restrict personal travel by the threat of criminal
penalty including arrest and jail time.
Now, most rational public servants would get the message that the rule of law
and the constitutional limitations on government are not optional or mere
suggestions.
The DHS Scope Statement leaves little doubt that Secretary-Designee Palm is no longer acting in a lawful capacity by circumventing the Supreme Court ruling and once again trying to improperly take control of the daily lives of every Wisconsin citizen.
The statutory powers of the Joint Committee on Administrative Rules (JCRAR) to
suspend Emergency Rules are not in doubt. DHS is needlessly creating a
political fight that does nothing to move the state forward on the legal and
proper path of fighting Covid-19.
I call on Governor Evers to withdraw the Scope Statement and end this needless
confrontation before it escalates and leads to greater public discontent with the public health officials in this state.
“Got my antibody test results today - Negative. Dammit!
That means a lot of symptoms among everybody in our house were just something else. The symptoms were very similar.”
Every single Althouse commenter who has gotten the antibody test have turned out negative. Interesting, I’ve also heard that less than expected positive antibody tests are being reported in the general population, while more positives are coming back where people are living and working in close proximity. I guess that sort of makes one think that social distancing matters during the time of a pandemic.
The there's Cuomo's amazement that most of their cases were from those who stayed safer at home.
“Got my antibody test results today - Negative. Dammit!”
I think that it would be immensely helpful to have every single adult and child who haven’t tested positive for Covid, whether they have had symptoms or not, get an ANTIBODY test. Maybe there are people who are the under the misapprehension that they are immune from Covid and have conducted themselves with this in mind. When things get personal, most people take things more seriously. Sad aspect of human nature.
NPR Morning Edition gave a lot of air time (6-7 min) to your mayor this morning (slow news day).
What? Wisconsin's trivial problems should be contrasted with what's happening in New York. Mayor de Blasio is blaming "The Jews" for Covid 19. And Cuomo forced nursing homes to take in Covid 19 patients, which resulted in several thousand deaths. SEVERAL THOUSAND.
The Trump Administration should have stepped in when it became obvious that de Blasio was mentally ill and Cuomo was stupid. Obama would have!!!
“The there's Cuomo's amazement that most of their cases were from those who stayed safer at home.”
It’s pretty obvious that Covid was being spread in households. Most likely one or more members of the household were actually having to go out to work, or were careless with groceries, deliveries, who knows. It didn’t come through the cracks in the doors. What we do know is that people who are in close proximity of each other spread it. The same thing happened in China and Italy, it spread like wildfire within family groups living in the same home or visiting each other.
Inga wants 400 million antibody tests administered.
Stat!
“There were quite a few bearded beer bellied older protestors there. Prime candidates for the ICU and a brand spanking newly bleached ventilator in about two weeks.
4/24/20, 5:29 PM
WHA stats”
Walter,
Are you trying to refute the already common knowledge that obese older males are especially at risk for poor outcomes if they get Covid? The Stats don’t break down WHERE people who were in intensive care caught the virus.
Ignore the rules, and:
(1) Cross state lines to eat, get caught and cited, then sue for violation of the commerce clause (local jurisdictions imposing constraints on interstate commerce); or
(2) Hold a sign about freedom of expression and assembly, get cited, then sue for violation of your 1st amendment rights, or
(3) At any point, while exercising your freedom to pursue anything you want on public sidewalks or roadways, be cited or jailed, then sue for violation of your civil rights.
You wouldn't be popular, but heck, telling us we can't access public property is just plain dumb (whether we have protective masks or not).
https://twitter.com/julie_kelly2/status/1261423153349197825?s=20
Politicians have had to make a bet on the cronobug. Democrats seem to bet that folks will love them for locking them up to save the marginal life, in spite of loss of paychecks. Republicans seem to think that any reaction is futile so take the hit and get on with life, (my football coach in HS told me this too.) Every pol had to react in March or they would have been death camp guards. Information was not adequate to decide. Now, we have the problem bounded, judgement can be made.
Presidential elections are won in the swing states. If I were head of the DNC I would worry about this. Florida would worry me, Ohio, Penn, and Nevada would worry me. MI is run by the Visitor Lizard Invader Dianna so they can't resist.
but of course
https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/05/michigan-legislature-closes-to-avoid-gathering-of-lockdown-protesters/
God you're desperate, Inga.
“God you're desperate, Inga.”
What am I supposedly desperate for Walter? Explain yourself.
“Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...
Did you see the hilarious headline in Newsweek today?
Wisconsin's New Coronavirus Cases Rise as People Flock to Reopened Bars After Court Overturns Stay-at-Home Order”
We used to call that a hangover.
"Democrats seem to bet that folks will love them for locking them up to save the marginal life, in spite of loss of paychecks. Republicans seem to think that any reaction is futile so take the hit and get on with life, (my football coach in HS told me this too.)"
Your Democrat observation appears to be fairly accurate, but it's a swing and a miss on the Republican side. They're not opposed to people who are scared staying home, they just seem to think that those who aren't shouldn't be forced to go along, just because.
O.K. This I sense is a test of a law from a Professional. In do respect for the human factor of thoughts and emotions and a law abiding Citizen. The difference in County laws outside of respect for any laws is to abide for a communal function.
Outside of introverted 'have to' the retrospect is 'will you're. Just a guesstimation, based on kindergarten rules of so called 'will you play nice ?'.
Or a more adult version of; accordingly.
Example:
Jay walking in NYC is illegal. Last time I checked is a $10 dollar fine. The police override the such summons, because the administrative work, paper work, and fees for paper work extend the price. Also. Rookie NYC Police, as far as I witnessed, do nor cross any red light by foot. After ? Well, I honestly do not know, but I return to respect the do called cops commitment.
I have a speeding ticket in a 70mph zone in Virginia for speeding 5 or q0 MPH over the limit.
I have not returned to Virginia since.
Nor do I have car.
Some in NYC drive fansy cars or else to get foodstamps.
Karma does work both ways, at the least.
My cents worth and a very microscope law question in my understanding.
I got a haircut yesterday and went to the gym today....in. AZ
Ooh !
May I divert with starting a debate with Inga instead ?
Or do I have to ask for a date ?
They opened up the bars in Mequon but not in all of Milwaukee County. So the bar owners "fear" that customers will be coming in from the dry regions close by. Actually I would not go into a crowded bar or restaurant even though I would like to eat out again and even though I think this virus has mostly stopped spreading, and in that I'm like most people.
I've been around to everything I can find that's open in this little ol' town in New Hampshire and it's been quite noticeable that people were voluntarily avoiding a lot of unnecessary shopping and even avoiding buying take-out food. But every weekend you see more cars lined up at houses and more little groups sitting around without masks, talking (spreading droplets) and laughing (spreading deep, deadly droplets that go 8 feet and hang in the air like small invisible back flies, waiting for a kill) and enjoying themselves. It's like a silent tsunami - people simply stopping believing that covids gonna get them and stopping self-enforcing restrictions among friends. Once that's widespread - and in many places it is - the government looks like a bunch of self-important, destructive fools when it restricts those same people from meeting at diners, bars and churches.
How many times have you said to a government official, "Choosing is too hard. You choose for me."? If the answer is even once, (1) you are probably a Democrat, and (2) you need to do a hard rethink about your character and purpose in life.
And stay away from the rest of us.
I found this version of Paradise Lost online at Kindle for sale. And it uses the English language in a specific way I cannot quite define or explain but which reminds of two or three comments I have seen recently, very recently. So I toss this into the mix:
Of Mans First Disobedience, and the Fruit
Of that Forbidden Tree, whose mortal tast
Brought Death into the World, and all our woe,
With loss of Eden, till one extra Man
Restore us, and regain the pleased Seat,
Sing Heav’nly Muse, that on the secret pinnacle
Of Oreb, or of Sinai, didst inspire That Shepherd,
who first taught the chosen Seed,
In the Beginning how the Heav’ns and Earth
Rose out of Chaos: Or if Sion Hill
Delight thee greater, and Siloa’s Brook that waft’d
Fast by way of the Oracle of God;
I thence Invoke thy aid to my adventrous Song,
That and not using a center flight intends to jump
Above th’ Aonian Mount, whilst it pursues
Things unattempted but in Prose or Rhime.
And chiefly Thou O Spirit, that dost pick
Before all Temples th’ upright coronary heart and pure,
Instruct me, for Thou recognise’st; Thou from the primary
Wast present, and with strong wings outspread
Dove-like satst brooding at the big Abyss
And mad’st it pregnant: What in me is darkish
Illumine, what is low raise and support;
That to the highth of this tremendous Argument
I may additionally assert th’ Eternal Providence,
And justifie the wayes of God to men.
Milton, John (2020-04-24T23:58:59). Paradise Lost . Kindle Edition.
Good question !
Does the facemask make a man's beard more attractive ?
Any feedback .....
Just my first impression of watching your governor and listening to him speak, the left in Wisconsin has elected their dad.
What is it about leftists that they need a stern father figure?
Creepy shit.
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