"... but no separate chapter on any other American city. I loathe Trump, but the historian [will] have to look at the actions or inactions of de Blasio and Cuomo, not Trump."
Says a commenter on the NYT article "N.Y.C. Deaths Reach 6 Times the Normal Level, Far More Than Coronavirus Count Suggests" ("More than 27,000 New Yorkers have died since the start of the novel coronavirus outbreak in March — 20,900 more than would be expected over this period and thousands more than have been captured by official coronavirus death statistics").
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६१ टिप्पण्या:
As has so often been said of fatalities by Covid-19, there were 'comorbidities' involved.
NYC's chapter should start with the heading 'comorbidities'...as in that city, its operation, its people, its state, and its living conditions are comorbidities to how it was impacted so harshly.
That city is a virus in the lungs and heart of the United State of America.
REMEMBER! THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THE DEMOCRATS WANT TO LEAD US!!!!
Has anyone died of anything but the corona virus in NYC lately?
Trump, Cuomo, De Blaiso. New Yorkers all the way down.
Sending already infected Coronavirus patients to nursing homes to recuperate and infect the vulnerable oldies was a master move by Cuomo. But the press loves him.
Or we could treat 20,000 dead in NYC from a bio-weapon attack as much worse than the 9/11/2001 or 12/7/1941 attacks using conventional weapons. And that approach does involve Trump since stopping his re-election was the obvious motive.
It does seem that the government officials in NYC have made some obvious blunders. They permitted the homeless to camp out on the subways. The trains were managed in such a way as to cause overcrowding....There was no attempt to stagger lines at food pantries. The lines were endless. Couldn't they have used even/odd DOB or A-L and M-N on alternate days?....Perhaps city employees with diabetes, HTN, or obesity should have been furloughed....It does seem that there were many obvious steps that do not rely on hindsight that could have been done....I don't mind the press asking skeptical or even adversarial questions to Trump, but the fact that they give the Dems a pass on all their missteps is is enfuriating
Cuomo and DeBlasio have blood on their hands. Now, the useful idiots and the media arm of the Democratic Party will insist it is all Trumps faults
Glad I don't live there.
A better question: Does a nation that protects it's own citizens from the Covid outbreak while allowing the virus to be spread to the rest of the world so it won't be at an economic disadvantage deserve to have most favored nation trade status or be part of the WTO?
How many are due to the virus and how many to the lockdown?
Sending Coronavirus positive elderly patients to nursing homes to recuperate after discharge from hospital where they then infected vulnerable nursing home inhabitants was not a good move by Cuomo. Yet the media loves him.
" I loathe Trump, but ..."
OCD virtue signalers don't seem to understand how it undermines, not boosts, credibility.
Either there's something very different about NYC that is not true of any other large US city, or the numbers are wrong, which is to say over-counted.
NYC is greatly inflating their numbers. That simple.
Of their roughly 12,000 deaths, almost all have serious co-morbidities.
These include Diabetes, Lung Disease, Cancer, Immunodeficiency, Heart Disease, Hypertension, Asthma, Kidney Disease, GI/Liver Disease, and Obesity. (See ftnote 1, above link).
Also, a big chunk of deaths are "presumed" to have Covid-19, without any test result:
"Cases, Hospitalizations and Deaths
Regarding the data on deaths provided below:
Confirmed deaths: People who had a positive COVID-19 laboratory test.
Probable deaths: People who did not have a positive COVID-19 laboratory test, but their death certificate lists as the cause of death "COVID-19" or an equivalent." Source: NYC Covid-19 data.
These New York medical authorities are shameless assholes fueling the panic and delaying the reopening, because they are deliberating exaggerating the numbers.
Trump sent the USNS Comfort to New York City and no one from De.Blasio on down could figure out what to do with it.
Yes, people have been recorded as dying from other causes. That's what the article is about. Of course, you get to pick and choose what you do and don't believe...
Always look at the bright side: those 20,000 extra deaths in the last few months won't be occurring in the future. So next year's numbers may be great.
Which leads to the thought of a president next spring bragging about how much healthier everyone is: just look at these great numbers.
Lucid Ideas is right, as always. New York's profound, disgusting selfishness can be best remembered when Andrew Cuomo planned to seize ventilators from upstate New York for the city's benefit. The risible plan to "compensate" the victims of such raids was so grotesque that President Trump can just play ads of Cuomo's press conferences on heavy rotation. He'll win every state but New York- although the Five Boroughs really should be quarantined for the rest of the year. There's just too much at stake to let them continue infecting America.
Cuomo is not getting the nomination, period.
Yeah, the whole "Lets go to Chinatown and dance" and "Lets defy Trump keep those those Euros flying in" weren't the smartest moves in the world.
still looking for a demographic breakdown of NYC deaths. How many of them are white native born Americans?
Cuomo the minor is not POTUS material. If he was, he would've run. They'll hand Hillary the nomination before Andrew.
These include Diabetes, Lung Disease, Cancer, Immunodeficiency, Heart Disease, Hypertension, Asthma, Kidney Disease, GI/Liver Disease, and Obesity. (See ftnote 1, above link).
I don't consider MILD "Hypertension" or MILD "Obesity" to be serious medical conditions causing death. If you're 20-30 lbs over-wieght you're obese, which means 30-40% of the USA is "obese". Same with blood pressure. 140/80 is now Hypertension when it used to be OK.
Jim: "Always look at the bright side: those 20,000 extra deaths in the last few months won't be occurring in the future. So next year's numbers may be great."
Of course that once again raises the question how much WuFlu reduces actual life expectancy. Deaths are not alike.
But that's not politically useful, so for now deaths are deaths are deaths.
New York City wanted to secede during the Civil War. Too bad they did not do so.
Upstate New York would sure prefer it.
I'm somehow reminded of an old joke in Punch magazine. They looked for real-world unintentionally funny ads or other newspaper copy. One ad: lost tomcat, missing one ear, part of tail, blind in one eye, some visible scars, castrated, answers to name "Lucky."
Trump has been extremely lucky, including in his enemies.
Bay Area Guy said...
These New York medical authorities are shameless assholes fueling the panic and delaying the reopening, because they are deliberating exaggerating the numbers.
4/28/20, 9:14 AM
There are two major corrupting factors in the NYC death tolls:
1) The NY government was already recording coronavirus deaths in "presumed" patients, as long as the deaths occurred in hospitals and nursing homes. The addition of 3700 more deaths was pure fabrication designed to juice the overall national numbers.
2) Far more insidious is the Cuomo government heavily restricting the use of CPR by first responders. Gee, I wonder why the death rate is so much worse in New York than in other states? If the DOJ begins digging and offering immunity in exchange for incriminating senior officials, you'll see a lot of fingers pointing right at Governor Cuomo, who is trying to kill as many New Yorkers as possible to "get" Trump.
At the risk of making a permanent enemy of Shouting Thomas, I actually don't think Governor Cuomo's plan to reopen his shithole state is slow enough for my tastes. Keep them locked down, especially New York City. Only when there are zero new infections can New York be trusted to interact with America again.
Sending already infected Coronavirus patients to nursing homes to recuperate and infect the vulnerable oldies was a master move by Cuomo.
Cuomo is just trying to bend the MedicAid costs down. It'll save him millions he can give to his supporters for more fraudulent green projects.
De Blasio's wife is going to do a bang-up job as the new coordinator of racial equity or something.
Let's hope this is true. It's a bit early to jump to that conclusion just yet. Lots of big cities left. Many deep blue of course.
I do think de Blasio was particularly inept. Cuomo's “put positives in the nursing homes” policy marks him out as a signal failure. I hope it kills his chances to supplant Biden.
NPR estimates 58% of deaths from nursing homes:
https://www.scpr.org/news/2020/04/22/92118/in-new-york-nursing-homes-death-comes-to-facilitie/
More on the Nursing Home Debacle:
https://amgreatness.com/2020/04/27/the-covid-19-tragedy-at-the-nations-nursing-homes/
Seems Michigan’s high death numbers may be due to Nursing Home issues.
I think the guy who failed to stop flights full of passengers with coronavirus pouring into NYC from Europe will make it into that chapter.
when criticizing a Dem, one must preface it with
"I loathe Trump, but" , because a critique of a Dem cannot stand alone.
Leftist Collectivists have never shown much concern for the lives of individuals.
And if it means Trump loses re-election, Bill de Blasio would probably strangle a few elderly women.
Michael K said...
New York City wanted to secede during the Civil War. Too bad they did not do so.
A week after the Union victory at Gettysburg, the Democrats in New York RIOTED...
...Because their beloved confederates in the south had lost...
Over a hundred Blacks in the city were chased down, and MURDERED
This is one of the reasons Why i was calling for a Constitutional Convention to (peacefully) end the United States.
Let's Review
During the Revolutionary War, NYC was ANTI America and PRO Britain
New York didn't Even vote for Independence, until AFTER the vote was passed
During the War of 1812, NYC was ANTI America and PRO Britain
During the Civil War, NYC was ANTI America and PRO COTTON (and, ANTI BLACK)
If New York doesn't want to be part of US; i say.... Good Riddance
" I loathe Trump, but ..."
OCD virtue signalers don't seem to understand how it undermines, not boosts, credibility.
It's the NYT comment section! You gotta establish your anti-Trump bona fides, or else they delete the comment, confiscate your computer, burn your house down and salt the earth where it stood.
And sometimes they get really mad...
" I loathe Trump, but ..."
OCD virtue signalers don't seem to understand how it undermines, not boosts, credibility.
----
File under: Things that would make you say "Um, ..." if we were allowed to say "Um, ..."
An admission against interest boosts credibility. When something is true enough to get through somebody's prejudices, assumptions, and defenses then our attitude towards those prejudices, assumptions, and defenses shouldn't make us dismiss what somebody has learned in spite of them.
Ha, Ron deSantis is blaming NYC for the FL outbreak now. It's pile on NYC time in America.
New Yorkers suddenly realize that they don't have a clue. Maybe they aren't superior to the rest of the country after all?
yes Fernando wood, was an honorary confederate. I remember from turn that it was loyalist redoubt that the hero had to negotiate through, including his own father,
I think the guy who failed to stop flights full of passengers with coronavirus pouring into NYC from Europe will make it into that chapter.
I would agree if this fact was known at the time. It wasn't until RNA analysis of the mutations of the HuCooties traced the flow of contagion from Europe rather than directly from China.
- Krumhorn
Someone with access to the paywalled article can probably answer this question: does the headline totally misrepresent what the article says, or is the NYT incapable of doing simple arithmetic? If deaths during the epidemic are running around 27,000 instead of the usual 6,100, how is that "6 times the normal level"? It's 4.4 times, which is bad enough, but 4.4 is a long way from 6. Also, why can't they tell us the usual level is 6,100, instead of making us subtract the excess 20,900 from the total 27,000? Are they trying to discourage people from checking their numbers? (If so, it seems to have worked on the Althouse commentariat, since no one else has pointed this out in 39 comments so far.)
The only way to save their mathematical competence is to go back to total misrepresentation. Perhaps they've calculated weekly excess deaths, and deaths have reached 6 times the usual level per week at least once or twice, though the total for the whole period is only 4.4. If so, they should say so, and not put the more inflammatory "6 times" up front.
In general, I wouldn't really blame Cuomo or DeBlasio. I think the simple fact is that New York was going to get plastered regardless. If you want to blame them, then blame them for not doing things like isolating COVID-19 patients in completely different facilities with dedicated staff. Blame them for not devoting more testing to medical staff and their families- this is the vector of spread in hospitals and nursing homes.
In short, they don't seem to have done all the things that would have actually mimimized deaths, but then no one else did this either.
I dunno. Detroit and New Orleans fucked up also.
Doctor Weevil,
Deaths are normally around 1,000/wk according to the article, and have run about 6,000/wk during the last month or so- adding up to 20,900 extra deaths over the last month- an extra 5000/wk for a month. The headline butchers the numbers and makes it confusing, but the 6x seems correct it appears.
they mishandled the nursing home situation, not once but twice, they first blocked hcq treatments then only applied them for critical cases, they didn't stock up on ventilators, then used them as the key treatment protocol, so yes they have a lot to blame for,
Everything is politics. Even pandemics are politics.
The most important thing is to make the people we hate look bad.
I think this is covered extensively in the CCP manual.
I would tend to agree that assigning blame is not worthwhile, as there is much to go around, and this is a novel virus leading to a very novel set of circumstances for leadership to deal with.
However, certain things are just common sense: masks, avoid mass spread events (e.g. crowds whether at venues or on subway), and most especially protecting those most vulnerable (elderly in nursing homes) and those most exposed (health workers and their families). If it turns out that common sense was defied not only by our authorities as part of a public relations campaign to avoid panic or to avoid a run on protective equipment, as was the case with masks, but also by people who we need to exercise it such as governors/mayors with respect to prioritizing actions, then, well, have at these folks. Failures of common sense on this scale are irredeemable.
“In general, I wouldn't really blame Cuomo or DeBlasio. I think the simple fact is that New York was going to get plastered regardless. If you want to blame them, then blame them for not doing things like isolating COVID-19 patients in completely different facilities with dedicated staff. Blame them for not devoting more testing to medical staff and their families- this is the vector of spread in hospitals and nursing homes.”
And blame them for inviting people to the Chinese New Year celebrations, and blame them for shutting down subway cars faster than ridership fell off, resulting in even more densely packed cars than usual.
Medical staff and their families were probably not the only vectors in hospitals, and esp nursing homes. Rather they were also sending symptomatic, but infected, people back to those facilities. (Which is presumably covered by your point of isolating COVID-19 patients from everyone else).
" 'I loathe Trump, but ...'
OCD virtue signalers don't seem to understand how it undermines, not boosts, credibility."
Perhaps, but NYT will delete your comment if you don't include it.
The one thing that's seldom included with 'I loathe Trump' is some sort of rational analysis as to why: when offered, it's always some sort of hyperbolic charge of "racism" or something, and sans a cogent argument explaining why the charge is justified.
So, it's 'I loathe Trump' because, umm, because all my friends and co-workers do? Or perhaps I don't, but figure I'd better say I do? Is there ever a real reason, a rational reason, something beyond disliking his personality?
"blame them for not doing things like isolating COVID-19 patients"
That, along with isolating the actual risk groups, was the one obvious policy that could have helped a bit. Everything else was theater.
But short of locking down nursing home staff until a vaccine is found, nursing homes were always going to be affected; no shutdowns will protect them. Their real protection for such vulnerable groups is herd immunity -- which the shutdowns delayed.
"Has anyone died of anything but the corona virus in NYC lately?"
Yes. I died of embarrassment when I sat down to play the piano...naked.
Then I woke up.
"New Yorkers suddenly realize that they don't have a clue. Maybe they aren't superior to the rest of the country after all?"
New Yorkers can't be bothered to spend time thinking they're superior to the rest of the country.
All the New Yorkers people say they hate are from somewhere else. Even if they are here 30 years they're simply fucking tourists who have overstayed their welcome.
Inflated COVID deaths will help NYC mooch more federal recovery aid. They may be dishonest in NYC but they're not stupid.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
Trump, Cuomo, De Blaiso. New Yorkers all the way down.
4/28/20, 8:55 AM
And if Biden is replaced with Cuomo, you will lick his arse clean after every defecation. No burden for you, of course.
Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Sending already infected Coronavirus patients to nursing homes to recuperate and infect the vulnerable oldies was a master move by Cuomo.
Cuomo is just trying to bend the MedicAid costs down. It'll save him millions he can give to his supporters for more fraudulent green projects.
4/28/20, 9:43 AM
See-you're on to something here.
That's why Ds and Europeans aren't mad at China for killing us.
China has bad, aging demographics-"they will get old before they get rich." They would do very well (being monsters) to kill lots of olds and fats and sicks-eugenics and all that.
They may have figured that the West would feel the same, all those useless eaters on Medicare and NHS and so forth.
Those who support China, are obviously grateful to them for killing our people.
Those who don't, are not.
Vote accordingly. I guess the Ds have run the math on that, too. They may figure old people and those with comorbidities are Republican voters. In which case they only regret having to try to save any of them.
steyn pointed out, this morning that the wuflu, was very selective in where it targeted 75% of the casualties, on seven countries including the us, and western Europe,
"Yes. I died of embarrassment when I sat down to play the piano...naked."
I have never had that dream, but I have dreamt that I was sitting down to play piano concerto only to realize just as it begins that I don't actually know how to play it, and in the dream I seem to believe I might just be able to fake my way through it.
ARM: "I think the guy who failed to stop flights full of passengers with coronavirus pouring into NYC from Europe will make it into that chapter"
Ah yes. ARM has already moved on to his newest debunked lie!!
What took you so long ARM?
If you recall, ARM was humping the transparently false lie that Trump owed millions to ChiCom banks. Do you want to know where ARM got that one? Politico. And where did politico get it? Direct, unsolicited, from a ChiCom bank.........and that was all it took! Politico ran with the story, giving ARM, our Beijing Boy, his talking points for the week.
Politico fully retracted that lie this morning.
And so ARM moves on to the already debunked and transparently false lie!
The flights that Trump allowed back into the US were.....(wait for it)....(wait for it).....US CITIZENS and legal Green Card holders! All of whom Trump was legally obligated to allow back in! 40,000 US citizens and Green Card holders were all allowed back in. And that was that.
LOL
Thanks ARM. Just when I think its literally impossible for you to pull another long ago debunked lie out of your ample rear end you surprise me!
BTW, for those who had been paying attention, this was the little factoid that Rep Crenshaw hit Bill Maher with that blew Maher out of the water.
And poor Bill didn't have a studio full of trained seals like ARM and Inga to back him up when he pushed his BS out there!
tsk tsk tsk
We really ought to set up a pool to guess what the next ChiCom directed, transparently false and previously debunked lie ARM will push on Althouseblog.
Think of the fun we could have!
Cuomo has already stated that "It's because we welcome people from around the globe"
Basically, open borders.
The plague hit NYC bad. Like the original hit Venice bad.
probably over 50% now infected in NYC.
IFR still around 0.5%.
They seem to be assuming that the these are in addition to the usual number of deaths, rather than instead of, as they are adding the COVID deaths to the "expected." And if many of these are people who would have died in the next few months, we'll likely see lower than normal numbers for May and June. But why would I expect reasoned analysis from the NYT?
De Blowsio's "stick it to the man" did not work out well.
As of today, the State of Texas has 719 deaths to New Yawk's 22,800. Texas has a much larger population, but they are not idiots like New Yawker's who believe their own press. And to think the New York Slimes was criticizing Southern States on their "social distancing" practices. To read the Slimes, lowers your IQ
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